I've had this thought for a while of just going off and buying some land and building a small house just to get away from everything. To live almost completely off the grid. I don't need much, just the basics. How would I go about doing this?
Just loosely thinking about it I would require the following:
1. A stable/robust residence. (I'm personally thinking a log house of some kind)
2. Something to generate power. (A bike generator + solar. Know it doesn't generate much, but I don't need massive amount of energy to run lights and a computer, do I?)
3. Something to eat. (Potatoes are easy to grow I hear and can be cooked in a few different ways)
Is this unreasonable to achieve, am I missing something essential?
Please share any tips, tutorials and videos on the subject.
>>915903
Is a hot and/or cold climate a concern? You might want to plan for that if so.
>>915904
I live in Denmark so the climate can be kinda cold in the winter, although it's not as bad as most people think. Plus I generally like the cold.
I don't think I would be able to grow much food in winter times, Though.
>>915913
I would look into canning and preserves then.
Also, ghosts should be a major concern.
>>915903
Water. Maybe your own well?
Solar will suck in the winter, you are far south from me but still no 4chan during nighttimes.
Check out this guy bonderoeven (or something like that), we have him on the telly also, the guy tries to self sustainable
And it's hard work...
>>915930
>I would look into canning and preserves then.
Yeah it would probably be unrealistic to live off the land all year round.
>>915931
>Water. Maybe your own well?
Hadn't thought of the necessity of water. What about clean streams or a way to sanitize water?
>Solar will suck in the winter, you are far south from me but still no 4chan during nighttimes.
Wouldn't battery storage negate that with a little help from a bike generator? I know it generates little power, but I think it would at least be beneficial. Plus some cardio.
>>915903
Another off the grid thread. Sigh. Well, at least you are somewhat reasonable in your expectations.
1. Water and sanitation. Diptheria, cholera, and giardia all REALLY suck. Educate yourself on water and sewage systems. Don't just go "oh, I'll pick that method there and my worries will go away." Seriously educate yourself and learn what you are dealing with. There is nothing more important then your water.
2. Food. Start with your environment and go from there. You can't decide anything without knowing what grows/lives in your particular area.
3. Weather and shelter. Make sure you know your local weather patterns, whatever they are, and are prepared with appropriate shelter, clothes, and emergency supplies.
4. Power. Notice that this one is last. That's because running out of electricity won't kill you. First, set a standard. Lights aren't bad, but computers are several hundred watts. A couple solar panels or bicycle generator won't run a compy. So, to start with, set a power level you want to obtain- say 1kwh. That's your starting point for research. Next set a budget, and see if you can meet your power goal within your budget or not. Best case scenario, you have a property with running water and can get a hydro turbine.
GL, don't die.
learn about seeds, harvest, weather, and seasons.
where is the place you are thinking to live?
The best option for this life style is to move to Thailand.
Affordable agriculture land.
Decent climate.
Good fish stock.
Cheap fuel
Fast women.
>>915913
You might want to consider a green house for crops then.
Also solar power is not the best way to power yourself in higher latitudes. You should look into something like a windmill/watermill to substitute it if possible (these work quite well in rural areas). You will also need a way to store the power and battery banks are deceptively difficult from what I hear.
>>915965
You can never be sure if a stream is actually clean, and water sanitation options are not too cheap if you want anything more than boiling and filtering the water before you drink it. Most of them rely on filtration and such, which more often than not requires water pressure. Of course you can make your own filtration system that works by gravity and use that, and that would probably be the simplest way. Still A well is probably a good investment, but if you have one dug/dig it yourself make sure to have the water checked for potability. Some ground water deposits are tainted with all sorts of deadly stuff.
>Battery storage negate that
Eh, depends on how much energy you can expend and how in shape you are. You can look up the calculations from how many watts of power you put out on a bike, feed that in calculating inefficiencies in transfer, and conversion and all that jazz. Also recall that human power is not free, you are taking solar power, poorly converting it to plant based chemical energy, ingesting that energy and converting it inefficiently to kinetic energy, which is being then converted to electrical energy. Rule of thumb is that it will always be better to choose something that is higher up the food chain (solar, wind, etc) if you want power that works and is reliable.
>>915967
>Solar can't run a compy
Eh, he could probably run a laptop off of some decent sized panels.
>>915975
By "fast women" do you mean ladyboys? Because I have this off-the-grid, psycho, ladyboy human-centipede scheme that really needs immediate access to plentiful supplies of them.
>>915967
You're right I need a much better understanding of food/water sanitation before going forward. Everything else is second.
How much power does a moderate computer use? I've heard that a bike generator have a conservative estimation of around a 100 watts per hour. (For a normal person) Is that in the same ballpark?
>>916011
Windmill/watermill is a great idea, if I can find a decent environment. The bike generator will be more a secondary energy source then. If all else fail I'll have that.
>>915974
Haven't found a place. I'm thinking this is something to do in 5-10 years, but I'm gathering the information now.
I've found a video from some canadian youth preacher which I found quite informative. He claimed he build a semi-decent log house for $500. Although he does mention that some things were donated to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkml0yavPvA&feature=iv&src_vid=MjWE1j9R4xM&annotation_id=annotation_2979654515
>>916073
>100 watts per hour
Wut? You are going to generate electricity by burning calories from your body? Those are some difficult computations.
What you want to do is start with a prebuilt cabin in fixerupper mode or even start with an RV trailer. The most important part for someone like you is plan on spending twice the cash and make sure you start fairly close to at least a town with groceries and hardware.
>>915903
Bump for interest
>>916083
I first hear about the 100 watts per hour on a reddit thread when I first thought of living of the grid.
But they too came to the conclusion that such a generator alone wouldn't be much help, that's why I'm thinking of including for, example, solar.
I've also found other sources that spout the same statistic:
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/bicyclepower.html
The same site also says that a normal computer uses 65 to 250 watts, plus an additional 20-40 watts for an LCD monitor. laptops use about 15-60 watts.
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/computers.html
Seems like an hour on a bike generator could power an hour of computer usage, lay on top of that alternative energy sources such as solar and I think It could run quite smoothly.
>>916092
Just buy a small gas genny for backup power.
Bicycle power is bullshit
this will make you decide
http://cabinporn.com/
Why do they always come to diy.
Does Google redirect here from smallhousethatillneverbuild.com?
>>916113
First place I thought of asking truth be told. I can gather from the replies that it's a somewhat common occurrence.
If so I apologize, just wanted others' take on the idea.
>>916100
Fastening structural supports to live timber. Ugh.
>>915903
a bike generates basically nothing so forget about it
desktop computers are power whores. you will have to just be happy with a phone that can charge with USB.
growing enough food to survive will be a full time job, and still making enough of a living to pay your expenses will be a struggle
>>915903
1. log cabins are over priced and poorly insulated. Stick to standard stick built houses. If you want solid, get 2x6 walls. Build it on poured concrete pears, use a post hole digger to make the holes and pour your own concrete. Its actually a pretty easy foundation and strong. Makes a decent crawl space, put it up thick 4x4 or 6x6 skids depending on the size. a small 600 sq foot and down 4x4 should suffice as long as you have it spaced out appropriately.
Loadsa insulation, metal roof is a must. Metal siding if you dont care what it looks like and want it to last. White roof and siding, reflectix under the metal.
2. I live off grid, you use more than you think. There is no such thing as to much power, the more the better, it will make the batteries last longer because you dont cycle them as hard. Nickel iron batteries exist but cost a lot more, they do last forever. Fork truck cells last up to 20 years but they still need to be cared for. Never cycle beyond half or 12.1 in a 12 volt battery or 24.2 in a 24 volt system. Your charging amps should match 10% your 20 hour rate of batteries. Lets say you have a 100 AH battery bank, it would need around 10 AH of solar going in. You can play a bit with this depending on the climate. Arizona for example could easily get away with 8%, canada or oregon or some other low sun place i would go for 12%. Any more you risk boiling the batteries with a hard charge. Sealed batteries like AGM can be charged at higher rates but they wont last near as long as a well taken care of flooded cell. Only consider wind if you have a top of a mountain spot. 30 feet is the minimum tower height. Every 30 feet increases wind speed by about 25% for wind mills. 12 volt wind mills are a waste of time. Even with a three phase windmill you still wont be able to make useful amounts of power without expensive thick cables. Its doable at 24 volts.
>>915965
you wont make shit with that bike, the average human can generate about 100 watts pumping hard, a real athlete maybe 200-300. Thats an hour of work for 100 watts, a piss in the bucket. Your fridge consumes typically at best efficiency 700-1200 watts a day. For a water source a well is good, a fast moving creek through rocks is also good. A cistern helps a lot. Run it through rocks and a sand bar filter. A layered pipe with a sieve to keep it in. Gravel and rock etc. You can boil or filter with a 2 micron filter.
>>916167
windmill is a back up or a supplement, they are not very reliable and typically will only last 10 -14 years with a really good stable and level set up. Hydro is literal god tier. 1000 bucks on a simple alternator, wheel and a pulley/gear system to up the speed can make 10x the power your solar does and 24/7. With adequate water you can use cheaper starter batteries since they are designed to be topped off and provide lots of current. Depends on your area. Local laws may make it impossible or expensive, remote land its less important.
DC everything. Inverters suck. No matter how much you spend they will eventually break and they are horrible at starting motors. Motors surge for a large amount when they first start up. Your fridge might only consume 80 watts but for a split second when the compressor kicks on it can be 1000 watts. DC cuts out the inverter loss, the power it wastes and the power it consumes. dc lights, fans, pumps and refrigerators if you can.
>>916151
with enough pv, wind or hydro you can have a gaming rig, it might just be a modest one. With a gtx 750 ti and a new skylake intel cpu, i had a build under 200 watts.
>>916073
look up sommercabins in Småland, its very cheap and you usually have allready access to water and electricity. You are still somewhat remote
>>915965
If you haven't thought about water as a necessity, then you haven't thought enough about the realities of a lifestyle like this. There will be many unexpected difficulties, some of them treacherous. This should be carefully planned out unless you want to live reasonably close to civilization and have a reliable method of transporting yourself to town.
Although I personally do know some people who use river water as their main water source, they have lived there for 20+ years and are used to that specific. They also live out in VERY rural Oregon, where the only risk is giardia and its low. A well is your only viable option, honestly. It should definitely be dug professionally to prevent future problems and dangers.
What about waste disposal? Compost toilets should be looked into. Do you know how to garden? Hunt? Canning, sewing, crafting? These are all skills one accumulates over a lifetime of hardwork, and they are difficult to acquire by yourself during adulthood.
I am not saying this to discourage you but to help you be prepared and successful should you choose to do this.
I would start small and see if country life is honestly the life for you. Try urban homesteading, tending to a small garden, canning vegetables, making jam, foraging for berries and wild mushrooms. These are all very fun, relatively easy activities that will help you realize whether or not a life like this is truly for you. Then, move on to WOOFing for more experience, consider joining a commune/co-op, etc.
The idea of Walden is nice, but the reality is tough. Please make a well-informed decision. :)
>>916232
I have seen a preliminary filter called a slit well that I can't for the life of me find. used in areas where the water table is fairly high, and therefore hard to find clear water. you can use the ground to filter by halfway burying a 5gal bucket with holes slit in the sides and letting water filter in.
also lookup hydraulic ram pump, could automatically feed a water filter system on stilts to give you running water.
Remember water is also going to be an issue in winter, when streams freeze.
1. Building a log house might be a bigger and harder task than you imagine. There are instruction videos on Youtube but without carpenter/construction skills you will probably fail massively.
2. You should plan your living so that you do not need electricity, realistically speaking. Solar power + diesel generator for occasional needs is probably a good combo if you can't afford to get electricity laid out to there.
3. Yes, you need to eat. Hunting, fishing, growing vegetables are good but sustaining your food needs with those can be difficult, especially in a tiny urban country like Denmark. I would probably just look into canned food and other stuff that lasts a long time or simply go to the store once in a while, I doubt you can get that far away from stores in Denmark anyway.
Things you forgot: staying warm, drinking. You would need to have a source of firewood to warm up the cabin (the only realistic way of warming it while staying independent). You also need a source of fresh water for drinking, washing yourself and things etc.
All and all, it's very hard to achieve even 98% off the grid living. You live in a country that isn't very optimal for it (lack of hunting grounds). If I was you, I'd probably go for something less radical, but I'm not saying it's impossible. You just need to work hard and plan it much more carefully if you dont want to run back tail between legs after a week.
>>916336
>Canned food
Would you really suggest that? It seems to me dried stuff would be much better in terms of weight/calories and store much better. A few barrels of flour with some dried cereals/legumes for complete protein and Bulk vitamin supplements, combined with some simple hardy crop seeds to supplement any other dietary needs and such would probably last you a good while and be cheap to boot.
I am a layman though, so if you know something I don't please inform me.
I've been looking into something similar for a while OP, solar actually is doable even in Sweden where I'm from. Look into passive houses, using tubes underground to bring up warmer air(up to 8 degrees C in winter), solar is ok for electricity though water generators are good, I'd do a combination of both. Look up earthsips and 24V houses for inspiration. Google some too, I know of a few completely off grid houses in Sweden.
Sorry for wall of text, can't really write good on mobile.
Some good advices in this thread, Thanks!
Didn't read thread
>me be poor
A stable, robust house would be great but it wouldn't need to be made from wood, cob or earth. Yurts (gertees) housed people in cold climates for thousands of years. They're cheap, mobile and look good.
Living off the land creates access to delicious, healthy food that sustained countless cultures for millenia. Nowadays it's not as pretty, or abundant but you can likely begin wherever you are. What did the people eat where you lived before grain agriculture? Acorns, deer (fresh roadkills taste great), wild greens, squirrels... lots of stuff that's available in small towns or just outside cities- probably a group around you are already communicating about it on facebook.
>>915903
The more you pedal that bike the more you'll need to eat. And to remain healthy you'll need more than potatoes.
>>916606
I would imagine a major advantage of cans is that bacteria, fungus, insects and mice can't get in them.
Plus there's no exposure to air or sunlight, so the vitamins won't go off.
>>916073
>You're right I need a much better understanding of food/water sanitation before going forward. Everything else is second.
>How much power does a moderate computer use?
Dude, you need to figure out how much power you need to run a fuckin septic pump. Otherwise, you might want to consider how to properly construct an outhouse before you worry about your cabin.
>>915913
>kinda cold
>Denmark
Before building a house (buying will not get you the results you want) make sure you are actually versed in the skills required to live as off-grid as possible. I would think of:
>Grow plants from seed, get seed from plants.
>What kinds of soil and climate do different plants need and how will you provide enough different soil+climate combinations to provide a healthy and varied diet for your family?
>Preserving food by smoking, salting, curing, drying, pickling, wecking, sugarring, freezing cheesemaking and whatnot. In my experience freezing is god tier but energy inefficient. Most other methods are easier to learn in the comfort and luxury of a conventional house.
>Chopping and preparing wood for fuel is actually harder than just axing it.
>Chopping and preparing wood for construction of furniture or even the home itself is even harder.
>If applicable (since its Denmark I doubt it but anyway) learn to hunt and slaughter an animal. Referring back to the food preservation skills you will need to know in advance how you will use every bit of the animal and start the preservation processes where needed immediately.
>Learn about animal husbandry. Build a coop and get a few chickens to start with. True off the grid living will probs require medium sized animals like goats (meat and milk), sheep (meat, whool and milk) and pigs (bacon, bacon, bacon). Cows are very difficult since a small herd will cost you as much as a car and slaughtering one means you have between 700 and 1100 pounds of animal to process into food (quick google says 1000 pound steer will yield 480 pounds of meat) that again needs to be preserved asap. Rabbits are good for their speed of procreation but do you have the balls to kill an animal every three days?
>Composting toilets can be a nightmare if done wrong. Read up extensively, especially about drawbacks and common problems.
>Collecting, purifying and heating water is not always easy and you can get fucked without tapwater.
>>918114
There are probably many other skills you need to consider. Remember that the people who are succesfull are usually either REALLY tough for not needing all the luxury of modern living or have planned it out and prepared years in advance.
Set a timeline and make sure to include a fuckload of time for studying how other people have succeeded and failed their off-the-grid experiments.
Obligatory Dick Proenneke post:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJKd0rkKss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3NRdZ8J24Q
>>915965
>hadnt thought of water
you might want to reconsider this whole thing, desu
>>915903
Container homes are the best.
>>916073
My pc uses around 20 watts with a dc to dc converter
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/N3150-ITX/
>>918116
Noone ever addresses property tax and such in these threads with no job
>>918459
What's the IRS going to do, send G-men in black suits and shades to the middle of nowhere to get a few hundred dollars worth of unpaid taxes?
>>918681
No, but usually local authorities will be sent for investigation.
I wish I had a darling house
The littlest ever seen,
With funny little red walls
And roof of mossy green.
>>918681
Our taxes here in Denmark are severe..
You're doomed before you even start op if you're worrying about electricity before water....You need need need need need need to find a reliable source of water close by before anything. Remember survival is rules of 3
Air 3min
Shelter 3hours
Water 3 day
Food 3 weeks
And before electricity again hold probably look into some decent wood stoves. Take it from me, nothing feels better than coming into a warm house after a long day of being out in the cold.
Since you live in Denmark maybe consider trapping as a source of protien, it works while you can focus your time on something else, like trying to find water.
You play to mch minecruft fug
>>916151
>a bike generates basically nothing so forget about it
This is a myth. A proper setup gives adequate energy to recharge batteries and run efficient electronics.
http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/news/the-5-hour-energy-of-bikes
It isn't only about how much a human can output, it is about efficiency of design. That flywheel is the key.
>>919909
>Shelter 3hours
pretty sure i have survived out and about for more than 3 hours
then again i'd be fucked 1 day without food never mind 3
>>920080
congratulations , You can power a few micro power things.
It's still on the same level of retardation as using tea light candles for heat.
1 kwh is roughly 800 calories, even eating the cheapest of cheap food you will essentially be paying 40 cents per kwh, Never mind the fact that OP wants to be self sufficient and grow his own food and wont even have calories to spare because he will be busting his ass growing it all.
If you're a fat fuck just spinning on a stationary in your living room to lose weight, sure why not use the power output for something useful.
>>920085
Ever lived in alaska? If you do have te proper protection from the elements, or don't plan on staying out at night hypothermia will set in quick! And obviously clothes count as a form of shelter and will help create a micro climate for your body....
Hmm didn't read the whole thread but I model self sustaining of my grandpa.
He lives a short way form nowhere, where it get cold, and it ain't the nice oh it's a bitt chilly cold I mean freeze you to the bones and leave you to be found in late summer when the snow may or may not thaw. The trick is a thermal brick house and real good insulation. He still burns quite a bit of wood in the summer. He's old school so solar is sci-fi stuff for him.
Water he gets from a small well. these are expensive to drill and it's not a diy thing unless you just happen to be a geologist and have a deep impact drill laying around. But a general rule of thump is that cold underground water is good to drink, you have it tested one or twice a year. It gets filtered a fair bit and it's cold all year round it's safe to assume it wont carry the zombie virus.
Electircal power is a bitch. It's scarcest when you really need it most (winter) if you really are far away from everyone it works visa-versa. Power lines get knocked down all the time in the winter, and that's when you need heating most. So burning something is your best bet. However you need to gather said thing in the summer and have a decent stockpile.
Foot is a concern but doable. You need 12 acres to make food for one person. This means after a bit of practice you should be able to work your land in just 12 days. add a another 3 for grass and you can keep your own rabbit or even a cow. This will provide you with additional nourishment.
Waste disposal is a bit of a problem. but if you set your out house far enough away form your water supply you should be fine. Your gonna need to dig a septic hole every so and so often but hey off the grid baby.
Maybe keeping bees or something similar is a good idea, since they seem low maintenance and can provide you with a decent non essential bargaining chip for things you might need. Soap, medicine, money in general.
>>920421
Now all this might set you back a pretty penny.
Since large chunks of land are hard to come by (and are a bitch to pay taxes for), but large chunks of land with drinkable water and fertile land have been claimed by Romans way before Christ was around.
So finding it might be a challenge.
>>915903
Most European countries require planning permission to build any kind of a permanent structure. Check your local authority first.
Being able to properly dispose of human waste is also a requirement for most countries. I would be very surprised if Denmark wasn't the same. So some kind of septic tank would be needed.
You will have to pay rates and taxes the same as everybody else. Just because you have forgotten about the world outside your cabin it doesn't mean that the world outside has forgotten about you. Especially tax collectors.
Before you start you need to have solved how you are going to provide food, heat, water and shelter otherwise you won't last very long.
You might want to start with a movable structure like a truck to circumvent planning restrictions/laws and also to see if you are suited to the way of life you are planning. If you find it is not for you then you would have the option to move it.
https://youtu.be/syk4aHX_uhE
https://youtu.be/cCxkUTKPZ8o
https://youtu.be/P73REgj-3UE
https://youtu.be/d4746vgMS-w
https://youtu.be/_3J5wkJFJzE
https://youtu.be/z6kPzMSvdDA
>>915903
you must remember to place your house near water. build a coop and have a couple of chickens so you can eat fresh eggs and have a reliable source of meat.
if you build near water you can ditch that bike generator and build yourself a generator using water. living off potatoes and chickens will be dull so you should also get some dry wares like rice, sugar and flour. you can buy huge sacks of that for almost nothing.
your hut should rely on burning things for heat so you need to carefully place your fireplace and plan ahead for the winter. the land should be near a forest so you can chop wood.
