Is lock picking /diy/ ?
>>913952
>What is hobbyist picking?
Fuck off retard.
>>913960
Chances of you wanting to be a hobbyist picker versus chances of you being a 14 year old edgelord from /b/ are rather low.
Get a keychain set. They work as good as any and you'll have them on you when you want to impress that girl with the piercings at a party. Wear a condom.
>>913965
This. We've never had a honbyist picking thread. Its always some nig nog trying to get into crime
>>913952
>>913965
>>913969
>>913971
WTF is this shit?
we've had may hobbyist picker threads here before.
I'm a novice at best, but I've opened a few 6pin triovings.
but never a lock that was actually mounted.
>criminal hurr durr
bitch please, few robberies ever have picked locks, is always busted boors and broken windows.
pickrelated, my lockstash.
>>913971
>we don't take kindly to your type around here
who's we?
if there is actually a rule violation, report and wait for a janitor to take care of it.
Hobbyist picker here. It's great fun and very relaxing. And yes I've broken into many a house.....always with the owner standing right there with me. Often times while he or she is paying me for said break in. Hell recently got a car opening kit and have had my bar tab settled more than once by some random person who has had a 2am lockout.
>>913975
Naw, we didn't. You weren't paying attention. We have had lockpicking threads before but Tyrone always shows up asking how to get locks open fast, clearly not interested in hobby picking.
>>913975
>Detail Overkill
Fuck yeah. Such a great pdf, highly recommend for beginners.
Check out pic related too if you get the chance.
>>913975
>WTF is this shit?
My reaction as well. Here's the obligatory legality chart for the US - I always try to post it in these threads.
http://toool.us/laws.html
>>913975
How d'you make the step up from toy locks and babby's first pick set?
My lock collection divides into "locks I can open in seconds" and "locks I've never opened ever".
Is there a good lock in between those extremes? Not even security-pinned, but just manufactured to high tolerances?
>>913952
>>913965
>>913969
>>913971
>>913985
>>914007
So much hate over such a simple hobby, it's a shame really. In 20+ years locksmiths will be so rare because anyone interested in how locks work will be ostracized.
Why don't you go after hobby programmers? They're all just wannabe hackers, right?
Most secure places, such as airports and government buildings, utilize electric locks - does that mean the electric company only hires criminals?
>>914014
Nah, I got no problem with the hobby, I'm in it. I got a problem with it on 4chan, because it really is jamal and tyrone, and they can barely breathe.
I honestly think it would be fun how to learn how to do complicated locks, maybe you it's the fallout 4 In me, and yes I'm white lol
>>913952
>>913965
>>913971
fuck off hitler
>>914011
>My lock collection divides into "locks I can open in seconds" and "locks I've never opened ever".
I'm the same mostly i'ts more like
>My lock collection divides into "locks I can open in seconds" and "locks I've never opened ever except 3".
>>914007
I'm a scandi, white and blue eyed.
>>914042
Same. It's neat to be able to do most masterlocks, but almost anything else is impossible
>>913948
So when you use one of there, how do you keep the pins from falling back down? do you have to apply a little force to the cylinder to get the pins stuck?
>>914017
>believing that jamal add thyrone even visit 4chan to learn about obtainable skills.
Way to go retarded mate, do you have your breathing certificate yourself?
https://www.youtube.com/user/bosnianbill
nuff said
>>914060
The only other time we helped someone with a lock and op wasn't faggot... he came back to post pictures of him opening the safe after he got the key in the mail.
There was a gun inside.
Op proved to be an even bigger faggot than anyone ever though and destroyed a gun worth $20,000 because through dumb luck he literally had the only way to get that gun legally into the country.
(Yes it was real, yes he destroyed it. Stop lying to yourself. The thread continued on /k, he showed the bolt face and three cuts through the receiver.
>>914107
so we aren't allowed to have lockpicking threads in case someone breaks something valuable that they own themselves?
wut
>>914107
i already said you were hitler
Look up a video called "lockpicking for the new Millennium" best tool for learning I've ever seen.
>>914107
>it was real
>it had pictures
>on 4chan
- are you fucking high, anon?
>>913985
>Nah, we didn't.
Nigga, your jedi mind tricks don't work on us.
>>914504
It's a pretty long play for a troll.
>>913948
If you break into my house I will shoot you.
>>913952
>>913965
uh, hobbyest picker here... go to local meetups at bars where we just drink and open locks. gone to defcon a few times and hang out at the lockpicking village.
only time i pick real locks is to get into my friends house if i get to their house before they do. have agreement that its ok. just a fun game we play.
Pin tumblers are pretty easy and some disk tumblers too. However, 99% of Finnish households use ABLOY disk tumblers which work very differently. Information about ABLOY picking is very scarce and I've so far only found like two videos where someone successfully picks them. Cheapest picks go for around 100 USD too.
I compiled a list of what I know, it includes some pick plans from a russian message board, some random notes and the fabled "Pulldog files" that explain the pick method in depth.
dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/152153442/ABLOY%20LOCKPICKING.zip
Pic related – it's an experimental pick for EXEC locks.
I tried 3D printing some ABLOY keys in 2012 but they didn't work. Could be that the models were too flimsy, but I know for certain that at least the ABLOY Protec2 keys have protection against 3D print-attacks.
There's also a deduction method that lets you figure out the Master key of your house if you disassemble your own apartment's door's lock.
>>914852
That said, the knockoff disk locks all have the same trivial bypass:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cI_09j-b84I
>>913991
got a good link for that book?
>>914865
Not just the Chinese ones, but practically every typical disk tumbler with symmetric grooves are trivial to pick/bypass.
In fact, ABUS, a highly respected brand, had a laughable vulnerability in their high-grade disk tumblers. The key codes were written into the disks, and if you looked hard enough you could decode the lock just by squinting hard enough.
How do I open a small lock from a locker? The friend I'm sharing the locker at college lost her key and, since we usually have classes together, I lent her my key, but now she went home earlier and I still need to my fucking things from the locker (surgical pajama or however you say it english, because we can't have classes in the hospital with normal clothes).
Also, I've locked my dumb ass out of the house quite a few times, in a rush, so learning how to lockpick vs paying the firemen 25-50 euros + humiliation...Guess what wins.
>>914880
You have to post a pic of the locker. There's too many different locks for such a general question.
If it's a cheap radial pin tumbler you can open it with a bic pen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2vLtpVPqhI
>>914882
Well, I guess it's a shitty lock. Maybe 3 pins? I dunno. The problem is that it's small and I could probably punch it open, but it would fuck up the locker. Seriously, hate it when I'm thoughtful (lending her the key) and people just walk all over me (even if she "forgot"). Next time, I'm gonna tell her to get her own fucking copy, because our teachers simply don't let us have the class due to the lack of "proper material" and then they count on their little sheet that we missed the class and either penalize our grades due to it or flat-out flunk us when we missed a few. Medicine is fucked.
Sorry for rambling.
>>914883
Take an existing key, make a copy of it, and file that copy down to a bump key.
How to open those fucker paper dispenser machines in the bathroom? Free toilet paper from college and shoppings, c'mon.
>>914886
They tend not to even have pins, because not being able to open them is worse than too many people being able to open them.
Treat them as any other warded lock, just use more force because the lock is actually load-bearing.
Or, y'know, if it's not your lock and you can't afford toilet paper, ask whoever whose job it is to replenish it if you can have the half-empty rolls that come out.
If it's not your lock, you've got no business picking it.
>>914890
I pay tuition. That toilet paper is my birthright. And it has no lock to pick, just that thingie that looks like it was meant for a screwdriver.
>>914893
>it has no lock to pick, just that thingie that looks like it was meant for a screwdriver.
That's called a "warded lock", Tyrone.
Again, if you really can't afford your own toilet paper, just talk to them. They'll be throwing out hundreds of half-used rolls each year, because it costs more to change them halfway through a busy night than it does to just put a fresh one in in the morning.
>>914898
Dayum, thanks fo the advices. Yous a good massa. Oh Lawd!
>>913991
>book about criminal stuff
>the author's name is Deviant.
>>914054
You need little tension on the tumbler with the tension wrench.
>>913948
Yeah I think it is. It's technical, requires skill, you don't need a locksmith if you can do the job yourself..
>>914017
>it really is jamal and tyrone
Holy shit - is it 1975?
Why haven't anyone made a simple unpickable lock yet? Not one with lots of extra safety features, just a simple design that separates the locking mechanism from the key reading mechanism. I guess the disk tumbler is pretty good, but it seems to have weaknesses and its not very popular(why not?).
>>914945
Why don't you, if it's so simple?
There actually are locks where you insert the key into a caddy, and slide the caddy in front of the lock and then manipulate the caddy. There's no practical way to pick these locks, but most people would consider this solition overkill, and it would be very, very easily to permanantly disable the lock using a frangible key.
>>914949
I have been thinking of it for about a year on and off, and i have come up with 3 designs I think would work.
I'm guessing you're talking about the forever lock, or similar ones, it was actually what inspired me to think about it, because of how stupid its design is. It made me think that there had to be a simpler way to do this. And I'm sure there are now, you can make a simple lock that you operate like a normal lock, which is practically unpickable, no special key or anything. Its all about not letting the picker gradually work his way closer to the solved state, the unlocking has to happen after the key is "read".
>>914949
How about a system like the one you described with the drawer, but after each attempt the used key falls into a container which is also secured by the same lock? This way you couldn't just "jam" it with a fake key or whatever you try to put in. Obviously the size of the container matters, but on a door lock the would be a comparatively small problem.
>>914957
even if you make that, it wouldn't make the design any less clunky and slow to operate, you just add complexity. A normal lock should be unlockable fast with one hand if you have the key, no fiddling.
>>914958
you can't eat the cake and have it too.
Be sure to patent the design if you every come up with a solution.
>>914959
Patenting is a joke if you go at it alone without a company to back you. Most likely you spend 5 years of your life and most of your money just to publish and idea for everyone to grab. With the right lawyers its easy for them to take your patent and change small details and patent it for them self. Patents are simply company bragging rights, and rarely protects the common man's ideas.
>>914957
Wouldn't work.
If I stick this guy in the caddy, no-one's ever using your lock again. And unlike a conventional pin-tumbler, there's now no way to dismantle the lock and fix it.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pKIwfJt78Eo
>>914956
Your radical ideas about locking tumblers have already occurred to others.
http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/wecolock/
>>914979
(he's lying, btw. You could easily get the "lock kill" out the lock by shimming down the side or over it, and pushing the pins up with your shim.)
But you can't do that if you can't access the keyway.
>>914985
That's a huge lock though, with so many parts. I have a way to make normal pin tumblers with locking pins that's only 2 components more). and is the same with, but double the high.
And I don't think its radical, I'm only surprised you don't see more ideas like it on today's market, its possible to make, without huge changes to today's doors and other locks.
Unpickable locks already exist. I mean, technically, any lock can be defeated, but at a certain point it becomes more effective to tear down the door with a sledge then bother with the lock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJZ_kKjXcE
>>915004
The issue is that locking pins don't actually solve any particular problem.
What you do is you use a very long, very rigid torsion bar, and a fixed weight, and you click each pin in turn into each locking position, and you note the deflection.
The point of most deflection will be the binding pin at its correct height. Note it down, then repeat the process setting it first, just as if you were single-pin picking it.
If you need in that make of lock a lot, a series of test-keys will get you in without having to fiddle with picks.
The only way to prevent this is to make the lock to such fine tolerances that turning the locked core gives you no information from the pins binding. This is the exact same thing you need to do to stop someone picking a lock without locking pins.
>>915091
You make some safety pins that lock into place when you tumble the lock, the safety pins are not read before you turn the lock 180 degrees or something so that it blocks access to the safety pins when tumbling.
This means that you have to pick the normal pins for each depth combination you want to try the safety pins at. Just with 2 pins that becomes something you don't do with picking equipment, and I do believe I have a functioning design that doesn't add too much complexity, but adds this feature.).
You can also just abandon the whole tumble-pin idea and make something which from its basic design doesn't allow pickers to gradually work towards a solution. You either solve the lock as you unlock, or you try again, I have a design for this where i worked out all details except materials, id love to make prototypes, but i have no experience or tools to do it, probably it wont go further than a CAD drawing.
>>914107
i actually reported him to the BATFE for that thread too desu
>>915091
>tfw you want to send Bosnian bill a normal pin lock just machined to very very tight tolerances so that there isn't a noticable binding pin.
Pins will always be insecure. The post-1980 ABLOYs are virtually unpickable. There hasn't even been proof of concepts for protec2s or sentos. And you can't maul them.
https://youtu.be/Yh46F3we1-M
https://youtu.be/NmZh59JNwI4
How can i, as noob and without a transparent pock, understand what the hell I'm doing when attacking pin by pin, instead of raking like a nigger?
>>915111
How d'you stop someone turning it a quarter turn, impressioning the set pins and cutting a key, then working on the safety pins separately? Putting them at the back would help, I guess, but you could still cut a skeleton key you could pick underneath.
Actually, how do you get the safety pin-stack to stay together as the core rotates? ISTM a trivial way to bypass this lock would be to make sure the safety key-pins never make it to the second checkpoint at all, and then pick the security set-pins directly.
How do the security set-pins prevent the core rotating? Will they still do that if I leave the key-pins below the level of the core, and then turn the core so fast they have no chance to descend?
>>913977
Cool. Your description sounds great. I think I'd enjoy the challenge. How would one get into this?
Lockpicking is only really good for a hobby or profession
no one trying to steal your shit is going to spend a couple of minutes opening your door, they'll just kick it in
>>915171
Scrounge around and pick up one of these
>>915180
I must not be thinking of it right. I at least don't see any reason for it to be off set. There's several ways to do multiple pin axis on a single key though.
---
Reading this I just thought of a thing.
Have a rocking arm on top of a pin. the arm rocks and pushes down another pin that's inaccessible from the keyway. The keyway side of the arm pin needs to be set, and so does the far side. I imagine this reducing the effectiveness of raking and other attacks that might over set a pin and get away with it.
Too complex, will never get manufactured, but sounds fun to send to Bosnian bill.
I also want to send him a really finely machined pin and book, like burnish all the pins and holes so there is no feedback, just because they are so smooth and tight. The tolerance for all the parts would have to be within the margin of deformation of the pin or something Seems like you could do it in your home shop with time, but it would never be commercially viable. Another one of those hobby picking things.
>>913948
Lock picking is a pretty useful skill that can open a few doors in your future.
>>915372
The way I was thinking is a companion cylinder on top of the normal one, and its geared with the normal cylinder so that it wont be engaged before the lock is turned a certain amount.
There is a grove cut in the normal cylinder that is cut as deep as the lowest key grove can be, this allows the safety pins to not stop the normal cylinder, but still block a pick. The safety pins instead stop the other cylinder on top once the gears engage.
The safety pins are taller, and are locked in place with a spring arm once the key has started turning.
Its not very complicated, you just need a extra cylinder, the groves and the locking arm.
>>915476
I think you're gonna have to draw this.
>>913975
where would be a good place to get one a good starter set of hobbyist picks to potentially learn to make ones own from?
>>916112
eBay. Amazon. They're perfectly legal to own.
I'm perfectly happy with the Southord PXS-14. It's nice and cheap, the pick is perfectly good, and there's a variety of tension wrenches. There's a bunch of rakes for when you just want in something.
My only gripe is that there's no totkw wrench, and the slimline rake would be a lot better with a pick instead of a diamond on the other end.
The handles are much better than I expected them to be at the price. Poke the tool through the hole in a key, and use the key to force it into the handle.
First lock I've been completely thwarted on with it was an Abus Diskus 24: the pick was too wide to get around the twists in the keyway.
or how about getting some bump keys like mine.
>>915368
>screwdriver tension wrench
ugh
>>916191
Did you buy them or make them? I am probably going to try to make some at some point
>>917321
I bought about 2/3rd of them in a kit because some of the keys I needed are hard to get a hold of since they are security keys . I needed them because where I work the ppl are stingy with giving out keys and I got tired of tracking down janitors to let me into places I need to go.
>battery on pic related dies while I'm out, don't have the actual key
>have to call a locksmith
>guy takes his damn time getting to my place, tells me the lock is unpickable because it's a smart lock that can't be bumped
>proposes we drill it out
>initially go with it, realize I have a conventionally locked top door, am able to get up there through someone else's apartment (with their consent of course)
>guy apparently can't pick the last few pins because it's a jiggly lock, ends up using an air wedge
>charges $200, claims it's the standard entry price
I saved some money realizing I could go in through the top, but I'm still wondering if I got ripped off or not. Currently hoping for a lockpicking learning kit for Christmas, if it turns out the guy was stupid I might have a business opportunity here.
![kwikset_smartcode[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3Ywt21k.jpg "kwikset_smartcode[1].jpg")
>>917858
Shit, wrong pic.
>>917860
those locks are fucking retarded.
>>917875
But are they "unbumpable?" Apparently that tiny hole left of the keyhole itself indicates so, according to the locksmith in question.
Again, I'm trying to figure out if there's something to it or if he was retarded.
>>917877
'needs a special tool'
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR-h64WwfW8
tldr; they can be forced trivially if you can get something steel in the keyway, lock is fucked after it though.
Don't worry though op, no one sells locks that are any good that are commonly used on houses. At least not in the US.
>>913977
Constantly have to keep "breaking into" server/switch racks, sometimes even server rooms, because about 1/2 the cases where we do contractor work, nobody has the fucking keys.
Racks have crappy locks that you can beat even with minimal training, always makes a good impression and we can start working instead of having to track down the keys.
>>917880
>no one sells locks that are any good that are commonly used on houses. At least not in the US
That has been my impression as well.
Why? If anything, I'd expect the USA to be a good place for selling decent locks.
>>917858
You got a pretty bad lockpicker, at any rate.
Look on YouTube, you'll see these things SPP'd.
If your first resort is a bumpkey and not a rake, you're the lockpicking equivalent of a script kiddie.
>>918110
Europe standardised on the interchangeable Eurocylinder, meaning you can make a good lock cylinder to one single standard, and you've immediately got 500,000,000 potential customers.
America didn't, so you have to explain to your customers why they want a new door.
>>917877
The hole is for disengaging the entire cylinder once you've put the correct key in. IIRC you poke it with a paperclip and turn a little further, and the whole cylinder comes out with the key.
This is a NIH version of the Eurocylinder's "put the correct key in, turn it a little bit, undo the screw on the side and pull" method.
>>915168
what if you throw some thermite at them?
>>918178
You propose to make a mechanism rotate by welding it?
>>918188
nah, I ask if you coud destroy a very good quality lock by throwing very hot metal to it
>>918209
Destroy?
Most likely.
Open?
Most likely not.
>>918209
Probably render it unusable. As far as I know there still isn't a direct, conventional method of opening them, destructively or not.
>>918136
Are somewhat loose, jiggly locks hard to pick? He at least seemed capable of doing more than bumping, though overall he seemed limited in what he could do.
Again, just wondering if lockpicking is actually complicated or if there are shekels to be made.
>>918831
If it jiggles and it's on a front door, chances are it's all security pins.
Generally, not-shit locks will have all-but-one security pins, because consumers are stupid and think that the lock jiggling makes it less secure.
So they make one pin a non-security to hold everything firm.
If it jiggles and it's not on a front door and it cost $2, it's going to be real easy to pick. You might even be able to get a shim along the shear line, if they cheaped out and didn't bother putting a guard on the front of the plug.
>>914739
>They're what the navy seals use
stopped reading there.
>>918260
>>918262
What they mean is yes, you will be able to use thermite to remove the lock.
Thermire is easy to make with rush and aluminium shavings 3/1 I think, don'tt quote me on that, a little magnesium ribbon or potassium permanganate and glycerine to light it you got yourself a hell of a mess.
>>918209
Thing is with putting it on a padlock is positioning and the set up, you got to get it perfect otherwise you will end up with a molten mess of a padlock which will be even tougher or impossible to to open, unless you use more thermite and do the job properly.
>>919465
>you will be able to use thermite to remove the lock
Still kinda doubting it. What are the effects of Thermite to hardened Boron?
>>919838
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfGKP8W1ZE4
![lockpick-training-kit[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ewhiZ3C.jpg "lockpick-training-kit[1].jpg")
I got a clear practice lock for Christmas, and I'm due to get some tools later. Would pic related also be good for learning lockpicking or is it dumb?
>>919924
It's cute but any vise with soft jaws would be fine.
>>919946
Supposedly it goes from 1 to 5 pins so it provides a learning curve, but maybe it's better to read a little and then try a typical house lock?
>>919959
You could just dump the pins put of your practice lock you already got? I thought you wanted to know how it looked for holding the bodies
>>919959
>>920005
Specifically, go make or hit up ebay for a "plug follower" and a set of pin tweezers.
One's a cylinder that lets you push the plug in or out a lock without the springs exploding everywhere, the other's a tweezers with a cylindrical profile that makes picking up pins less of an ungodly trial.
Once you've got/made those, it's easy enough to dismantle any lock you've opened, and change the pinning to change the challenge.
Add security pins to make it harder, or remove entire pinstacks to make it easier.
As an added bonus, if you buy a box of assorted pins, you can use it to re-key your own locks.
>>919848
That's steel tho
>>914994
Wrong. No shim is hard enough to do that at that thickness <.0010"
>>919959
Do not pick locks that are in use. You will break it and will damage it in a way that results in calling a locksmith. You will not be able to get it out yourself without drilling it.
Pic related, my everyday carry.
>>920737
Sure it is.
Where is it going to go?
It can't go anywhere but forward, because the clever key is on one side and the plug-wall is on the other.
>>920772
There is a fallen upper pin.
If you want to do this for life XP or some shit, know it's far more useful in vidya. Don't expect to use this skill in any practical situation. Very few situations really call for lock picking; pull a hinge pin, bow a frame, knife a latch etc and do less damage while getting in more quickly.
As far as a hobby, it's fun to tinker with mechanical shit. Locks are mechanical shit right? It's fun to take locks apart and learn how they work. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you are a ninja or cat burglar. You will be sitting there picking a lock as your bros pop a window, grab the loot and leave you sitting there for the police lookin' like a his royal highness, king of the autistic cat burglars.
>>920774
the raising of which is the objective of the whole exercise.
If the shim starts curling up the moment it reaches the notch in the "key", then that's job done: fill the notch in, and it'll pull straight out.
>>920854
I got you, i thought you meant actually taking the whole cylinder out by shimming it. Didn't realize you meant going from the side and taking the broken 'key' out. Got you.
>>914945
>>914949
>>914956
>>914957
http://www.bowleylockcompany.com/
>>920993
That's a cool idea but
-Seems fragile and prone to snapping or problems in colder climates
-Still impressionable because in the end it's a pin tumbler
>>920993
>company established in 2015, by two guys who have barely graduated from school
>"THE COOLEST KEY"
>key looks fragile as hell
>still a tumbler lock
>"We couldn't pick it, so it's safe"
>Target market: people who are scared of burglars, but have no money
Interesting, but I certainly wouldn't buy that if I wanted a high security lock.
>>921281
>>921295
>looks fragile
It does look fragile.
It isn't. It's steel, not brass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MnZM8Pkvmw#t=851
Also it's impossible to pick, it's not even a debate. Whether it's bumpable or attackable some other way remains to be seen, but it cannot be picked. It may be bumpable with a two-piece piece of kit, and it is probably impressionable, but how can steel be impressioned, and how easily are you going to file a stainless steel key on the spot if it could be?
The fact that it's expected to cost less than $40 is what makes it appealing. This is not a Protec 2 but it is unquestionably a "high security lock," for not much more than Home Depot garbage locks.
>>921309
>It isn't. It's steel, not brass.
So is a paperclip, but that doesn't change the fact that I can bend that shit with two fingers. Strong materials usually won't make up for a flimsy design.
>>921309
Damn, that IS tough!
> how can steel be impressioned
The impressioned key doesn't need to be steel.
If I had that key I'd try the foil bypass method because the key seems to operate on a similar principle as dimple keys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43EtAgFSso0
But definitely buying one anyway just to see how it works.
>>921281
that's quite a misleading video. any stresses along that bit may cause it to break along the higlighted line.
But what I'd be really concerned, is how tight are the tolerances on this tumbler? If they are decent, then any minor deformation in the key will render it useless.
if they arent, then it can be easily impressioned .
>>921546
and I forgot the image.
