I recently saw a cool method of storing energy by filling balloons underwater with air. When energy was needed the balloons could allow air out and spin some turbine, I suppose.
I'm wondering about storing energy in an end of the world scenario. Batteries would only last so long. I was thinking you could lift weights, and then let them sink.
So, ways to store energy? Trying to think of things that could be built relatively easily and could last for a few generations.
>>911008
pumped hydroelectric
already exist worldwide as kind of capacitors for electricity grid between day and night.
Find stuff that burns. Then burn it. There's plenty of it around.
>>911064
have you tried enriching uranium?
>>911008
Storage is just that - storage. Without generation, it will ALL run out, and probably LONG before the lifetime of the storage device.
EG, lead-acid car batteries typically last 3-5 years, but you can drain them in an hour.
So we'll need some parameters to give yo ua good answer. How long after the end are we looking at starting the storage? How long do you want it to be funcitonal? What level of energy do you need (aka what are you powering)?
Realistically, the only long term methods that are viable without a technological infrastructure to provide spare parts ,etc, are hydraulic and combustion. So any kind of pre-industrial revolution tech is what you want. Everything else - and I do mean everything - is on a one-to-two-decades-at-max lifespan.
HI. Anon.
There is lots of ways to story a energy, Capacity Inductance, Mechanical, electro-chemical etc.
You can Split water into 2 (H2) & 02 in electrolysis and then use Fuel cell or simply burn.
Each of methods has enbedded efficiency,
and that's most crucial factor, of all storage's, other is space and cost,
In all methods witch will use a Turbine and this is a gas turbine maximum efficiency will be 50 % then on top of that you need to add other looses in f.g generation, Electrical generator are not ideal and they add some looses.
The perfect example is as anaon >>911048
point to Pumped-storage hydroelectricity.
This type of hydroelectricity is used to pump water from down reservoir to top mostly in night when not much energy is needed by grid and energy is relatively chipper, when in day there some energy shortages and this stored energy can be used to boost up grid.
But there a looses in this, but stability of grid is much more worth then some thousands of kilowatts lost in process.
You need to know water is much more dense then Air and turbines has better efficiency than gas ones.
Energy is around us everywhere, we even a energy, problem is how this energy harwest to our needs.
>>911077
>gravity
>>911077
Thanks. I could try to set up parameters, but I'd prefer it being looser. I'm wondering about something that could last a few generations. I was thinking about solar panels that charged batteries, and realized that not only the batteries would be no good after ten years, but the panels wouldn't last forever. I wondered about being able to make energy (say, a wind turbine), but needing to store it, and it made me think of those underwater balloons. Led me to think of storing energy in the form of weight against gravity. Lift the giant logs each day, and the slow lowering of the logs can produce power in the non-windy times.
Of course, not sure how important electricity will be after 60 years, when freezers have shit the bed.
>>911080
Easy check for apocalypse tech question:
Can it be built by a handful of people from local materials? AKA, can the Amish do it?
If no, it'll last until your spare parts supply runs out. No exceptions. Solar, wind, hydro turbine, balloons, it all fails eventually.
If yes, you're good. This means things like water wheels, plumping mills, wind mills, stuff like that. Probably not what you meant by power, but it's what's realistic.
The only way around this is to hope that enough of the technological infrastructure survives that you can scavenge or make spare parts for as long as you need. And that will depend on the exact doomsday scenario.
>>911093
Exactly. WWTAD.
I think water wheels and windmills are totally feasible. I figured a lot of plastics would last for a long time. Water could be piped through black poly pipe, underground and uphill, and could then flow back through and spin a little turbine.
However, there might not be much that can function off electricity after many years.
>>911095
why waste energy pumping? find spots where water naturally flows from high to low.
>>911097
Well, that would be smart. I was thinking that my current home is a great spot for the end of the world, and I don;t have that opportunity...
>>911078
>harwest
chekov?
>>911008
There's not many storage systems really. Everything breaks down to only a few categories in the end and you've omitted electrochemical already.
Basically you have
Chemical energy storage (biomass, liquid nitrogen, hydrogen, etc)
Thermal energy storage (hot water, molten salts)
Electrochemical energy storage (battery; fuel cell)
Electrical energy storage (super capacitors)
Mechanical energy storage (Flywheel; Hydraulic accumulator)
Things that come to mind
-Thermal difference storage (insulated hot water storage; stone, molten salts, etc; liquid nitrogen, ice blocks, etc)
-Gravity storage (raise something high and drop it; hydro, GravityLight)
-Buoyancy storage (lower something in liquid or heavier gas then let it rise; your example for instance)
-Inertial storage (flywheel)
-Biomass storage (grow a woodlot or bamboo thicket; eat up and turn body fat into manual power for straight physical work or to convert physical work into electrical energy)
For me, I'd use electrical storage, biomass storage. and mechanical storage. Use the local forest dead fall limbs to produce heat and/or biosgass methane and/or woodgass to create the electrcial energy I would need for higher power things like a gaming PC. Then again, I wouldn't be using my gaming PC in that situation. Instead I'd be turning my bodyfat into energy on my bicycle electric generator, which I've already made, and use it to power my laptop. Note that I said power my laptop, not recharge the battery on it. I just need to add a flywheel and some supercaps to the bike to make it much smoother
>>911078
>problem is how this energy harwest to our needs.
The problem is learning to not use so much energy and to use it efficiently when we do. Energy is very easy to harvest and make. We've wasted more energy, through our bad habits, poorly designed power consuming devices and neglectful actions in the past 100 years to power the entire world for the rest of the time humanity will be on the planet
>>911008
That picture is an extremely inefficient way to store energy. If space consumption doesn't matter, pumped hydro is ideal. If space is an issue, the next best option would be either compressed air or a flywheel. That being said, you really can't beat the energy density of gasoline.
Personally, I would build a rudimentary steam powerplant for heat and electricity in a SHTF scenario. Make a rocket furnace, run some copper tubing through it, and then pipe the steam into a salvaged engine block with a dynamo hooked up to it. Then you can just feed random tree branches and brush into it and get power back out.
>>911180
It is compressed air.
http://win365review.com/articles/energy1.html
At 55m underwater the pressure is: 94.87PSI or 6.45ATM.
>The balloons in Lake Ontario are capable of holding enough energy to power 330 homes, and the developers of the system say it can be easily scaled up.
It uses space that no one previously used.
>>911245
Video of it.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/hydrostor-underwater-balloons/
>>911245
No, it's a lame form of pumped hydro. You're displacing water by pumping air into the balloons, so the max pressures that you'll be dealing with are much lower than if you were pumping air into a fixed volume steel cylinder. Remember, energy stored by air is equal to pressure times volume: think of it like a spring that operates in all three dimensions instead of just one.
>>911348
There's plenty of room underwater around the world. This is already a thing now in Canada and the UK in small scale and big stuff planned by at least 4 different company/countries.
http://news.sky.com/story/1499090/uk-to-get-underwater-power-station.
There's also some crazy sounding stuff like flywheel storage for peak energy hours,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1ZFh1vMkZQ
Everyone is scrambling to do all manner of different things for harvesting, generating,m and storing energy. Which is a good thing. Spreading things out and using multiple ways to do stuff really helps maintain stability overall.
>>911395
>video
>no technical information other than "1MW + easily scaled"
>triggered
I understand it's supposed to be an ad, but yeah nah fuck you though.
>>911402
And, there's a few sites already installed by that company.
>>911008
http://www.builditsolar.com/index.htm
Thanks to gravity a mountain already stores massive amounts of potential energy. !
Simply climb to the top, build a massive boulder turbine halfway up, and throw boulders at it from the top of the mountain.
Boulder energy is the way of the future!
>>911402
So, if I can just try to dumb down what you've said:
Equal volume steel tanks, equal to ballon size(s) would be more efficient.
is this correct?
>>911008
>>batteries only last so long
Wind turbines only last so long, solar panels only last so long, hydroelectric turbines only last so long. Eventually something is going to break that requires advanced technology and infrastructure to repair.
But my favorite form of energy storage is gravity train. You drive a trainload of concrete blocks uphill when power is cheap and use regenerative braking going downhill when it's expensive.
You can do the same sort of thing as pumped hydro in areas that aren't suitable for it, like the great plains.
You could build big-ass capacitors using aluminium foil and plastic sheets.
Of course, they have a very low capacity for storing power, but they have other advantages: they can hold a charge for many years at a time, and they last for a lifetime.
>>911578
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTt_YBzJ_Dk
>>911572
Sounds like a really inefficient but fun version of a weight in a well.
Perhaps there's an application where you could replace the concrete weight with people for some reason.
Invent a new religion and convince them if they don't go up a mountain in the train to pray at certain times when you have too much electricity until a time such as you need more supply then bad things will happen. I.e god will take away their electricity
>>911727
The problem with weight in a well is that you need a very big weight or a very deep well. Rail energy storage makes it easy to handle very big weights, you can have a trainyard of concrete blocks up hill
Rail energy storage is very efficient, right now it is 86% efficient.
>>911727
Fill it with water at the top, drain it when it reaches the bottom. Then send it back up empty. Use water for agriculture / drinking / whatever so it doesn't go to waste.
If the source was high enough volume it would be more efficient just to do hydro. But for something like a well or spring it would work out better than lugging concrete back up a hill.
>>911566
Bump
>>911008
Electrolyze water when you have power. Store Hydrogen. Use fuel cell when you need power. Not tremendously efficient but should have a longer life cycle then batteries. Down side is Hydrogen leaks so you can't store power indefinitely.
>>911727
Better yet, convince the people that they need to drag the train up hill once a day as a form of devotion to god.
Plus the bright side is that after an apocolpytic event, what do we need to power really? Refrigeration would be good so food can be stored much longer. Lights might be nice, but we could use fire for that.
Maybe some forms of electronics like means of communicating.
Pumping water if a natural source isn't close by.
>>912155
It leaks AND explodes.
>>912269
>It leaks AND explodes
Just like my dick. I approve of dick batteries 100%!
