I'm buying a dual voltage TIG welder 110v/220v.
I'm going to add a single 220v recepticle in the garage. Which amperage breaker and type of wire should I use? I'm getting different feedback from 30 amp to 100 amp and to use 10 gauge or 8 gauge wire. Do I use romex and do they have them in larger than 12 gauge with 2 blacks or 1 red, 1 black plus ground?
I don't want to run conduit around the garage. I want to feed the wire from the breaker box to the other wall.
10/2 Romex with ground, double 60 amp breaker.
more distance = fatter wire because there'll be a loss of voltage over the run and you want to minimise that.
old transformer welders dgaf about volt droop, but inverter welders that haven't been designed as 'generator safe' die horribly.
calculate your breaker based on the resistance of a dead short at the far end of your wire run. if a short circuit draws less than the trip current of the breaker all your shit burns down.
I'd strongly suggest you read your country's wiring regulations.
It's going to be less than 30 feet of wiring from the breaker panel to the recepticle
To properly answer your question you need to provide the rated primary current and the duty cycle of the welder. My answers will be based on Canadian Electrical Code, but it'll be more accurate that what these guys are saying.
>>910836
Google voltage drop calculator. If your math is as good as mine.. You might want to use it. Lol. 50feet of 8 awg is 215 volts by time it reaches the outlet.
My only real advice. Locate your houses main switch to shut off the power before you learn anything else... Lol
>>910783
>needs help with electrical for welder
>only posts voltage
>no amp rating, duty cycle or any other relevant info that is easily found on the welder
Sorry, but if you dont provide the necessary info, we cant help you. there are several factors you need to consider...
the wire size is dependant on the equipments amperage needs and then you have to size the breaker and wire accordingly.. too small of a breaker and /or wire will result in a fire
too BIG of a breaker and/or wire will result in you killing yourself if theres a fault and the breaker cannot trip because its rated too high for the connected equipment
electricity aint nothing to fuck with you need to know EXACTLY what you are wiring for before doing it
Now, kindly provide such information as requested so someone can tell you the proper size for the breakd anr wiring needs, or else fuckoff
>>910783
electrician here for a 30a 240v receptacle use an 8/3 wire because 10g is part of the small conductor rule in the NEC and so its only allowed 25 amps even though its rated at 30 amps so go with the 8/3 it will be a black, red, white, and a ground use a 30 amp breaker
>>911148
the formula for voltage drop is
cm= 2kil/vd
2=single phase
k=12.9 for copper wire 21.9 for aluminum
i=current (amps)
l= length of run
vd= voltage drop for 240 is 7.2 (3%)
use the number you get on ch.9 table 8 on the diameter line 2nd from the left and choose the wire size and then check 310.15(b)(16) and make sure it can handle the load
>>911148
Isn't that for 3 phase equipment? Don't they sell 8/2 romex?
You may want to have the mete disconnected, and then install a sub pannel/box near to the welder that has room for additional circuits.
The reason being. A welder is a gateway tool.
Soon you will have an arc box, a plasma torch, a nice fat compressor, some good air tools, next thing you know a bridgeport
non-electrician kitchen installer here.
for copper:
30a = 10 gauge romex
40a = 8 gauge romex
50a = 6 gauge romex
60a = 6 gauge romex
i know there are temperature and length exceptions, but there is literally nothing wrong with using wire that's 1 step too big.
>>910796
and just because it's 240V 60-amp doesn't mean each wire only has to carry 30 amps. that's fucking wrong
Most welders that you use on a single phase would be fine on a 32amp main. Anything above that are generally 3ph/415 volts anyway.
Have fun burning your house down.
You need an electrician.
>>911390
>always that one guy.
Actually you don't... All you need actually is for the county to come inspect everything before you seal everything up and give you the okay.
Then if something does go down. Your insurance will still cover you.
>>911400
How much is your life insured for?
We're talking about fire here, buddy.
>>911329
What country are you in?
Unrelated question but not worthy of its own thread, what would happen to the weld if I use non flux mig wire without shielding gas? Would it just be really shitty or what?
>>910783
Electrician here. Best bet is run #6 romex, 2 or 3 wire w/ ground. Doesnt particularly matter for your use. Size breaker for machine or start with a 2 pole 30. You will have plenty of wire to up the breaker size to 50 or 60 in the future if needed. Problem solved.
>>911450
UK
>>911456
Yes, it would be really shitty. Without the shielding gas, the weld puddle is exposed to the atmosphere, contaminating it. Go try it, it'll do something, but nothing good
>>911456
You'd get a bunch of slag in your weld, both weakening it and making it look like shit.
>i'm not even a welder
>>911505
I wonder where a fire would start, probably the point of most resistance. Like someone said you probably need more info from the appliance itself like how many amps it can draw. Sounds like a pretty exciting DIY in any case.
>>911517
I'm not OP.
>where the fire would start
Welders in the UK unless 3ph are sold with a 32amp plug and cable to match. I've used arc welders on 16 amp circuits up to about 140 out before now.
>>911500
Or he just post the RPA and duty cycle and get the right answer.
Do it right the first time.
I think OP abandoned the thread though.
Ok, I just read the speccs of the welder im getting and it's 28 max amps for tig and 42 max amps for stick welding. I guess I'll go with a 50 amp 2 pole 240v breaker. I'm still trying to decide on wire gauge size. 10 vs 8 AWG.
>>911562
As stated, you need #6 for 50 amps.
>>910783
For what you're doing and the short distance of the run use 8/3 wire and if the run is inside use PVC it's less expensive. Connect the black & red too either side of the breaker, White to neutral post and ground to ground post.
>>911562
By Canadian code you would use an 80 amp breaker, #8 hots with a #10 bond. (posted more for my own benefit, i know you're not canadian)
I am surprised the requirements are that different though, I know our code is being sorta harmonized to the NEC.
A welder in effect is a transformer. Stop thinking that if it produces 60 amps at contact that it needs a 60 amp supply.
>>911409
If the county passes off on it, its done right, you fuckwit. god damn you're retarded. Just because some over priced redneck who hasn't showered in 3 days. got a piece of paper 10 years ago saying "yup he passed a test" Has said piece of paper. must make it so your house doesn't burn down?.. Right..
>>911576
Why 8/3 and not 8/2? The welder is single phase 240v, 2 hots and a ground
>>911576
You can get away with 8/2 but really should have a ground and neutral, if you use 8/2 just have ground. With 8/2 White & back are hot and then ground.
OP here
I live in Las Vegas and we don't need the county to inspect something like this. You just have to follow the NEC codes
>>911297
Heh this.
>>910796
>>910809
>>910845
>>911006
>>911148
>>911152
>>911285
>>911297
>>911319
>>911329
>>911400
>>911500
>>911517
>>911522
>>911562
>>911569
>>911576
>>911622
>>911931
>>911950
All of you should provide OP with your name and address for when his house burns down. That way he can sue you all.
>>911622
>>911622
>>911622
And you. You're a cheap idiot. That redneck specializes in electrical. and what do you do? sit on your fat ass and read a website or two and suddenly you know more then that smelly redneck?
I've fixed more weekend warrior electrical shit from guys like you then i could shake a stick at. I HATE and LOVE people like you, because you think you know what you're doing and you don't, and shit goes wrong, and then you call me (an A/ Master electrician, or whatever your back ass county calls it) to fix YOUR fuck up and guess what. I get to charge you an arm and a diabetic leg.
OP, talk to friends and family and see if someone knows an electrician who can help. Ask him to show you how to do it, what parts to buy, etc. nine times out of ten it'll cost you a case of beer.
>>911622
Who do you think the county would hire to inspect it and sign off on it? Either the same smelly redneck with a piece of paper who passed a test, or even better, some young self righteous twat straight outta college with a paper signed 10 months ago saying "he didn't pass a test but we gave it to him anyways which guarantees your house won't burn down."
>>912243
>doesn't understand the function of a circuit breaker.
If a breaker is rated 32 amps and installed with wiring capable of delivering that currant and the welder requires more, the breaker will trip.
That's it. Nothing else to say. If it trips you need a bigger breaker and heavier cable.
I don't know where this shit about house burning down keeps coming from. Unless you're running a welder on 13 amp rated wire and using a paper clip as a fuse through a 100amp breaker there is no issue.
>>912250
Don't even bother. The likely chance of that guy being a master electriction is slim to none. And if he is and on 4chan /diy/ board then it says a lot alone by itself. I think the smelly redneck thing really hit a nerve.
Fuck sparkys. Mexicans can do your jobs now because everything is color coded and easily marked thanks to standards. I always make sure to drywall over a few electrical receptacles...
>>912243
I just wish I had a HVAC/R problem.
You guys should meet, and compare bits of paper. It'll be like pogs.
>>912289
so you drywall? how smart do you have to be for that? not very?
>>912250
crap connections, nicked wire creates a hot spot, he's got aluminum wire in his house, etc.
>>912388
I plaster. And frame too. Did roofing for awhile and did a few courses on masonry cutting limestone and dolo. Moved on to timber framing actually because it intrest me more.
>>912389
A lot of stuff is "rated" but it takes into account some factors all that gear will get hot, the fuse, the wire and the machine possibly increasing reistance with heavy usage, also tolerances, with everything made in chink land these days who knows...best to give a wide margin for a tool like that.
>>912388
It's pretty hard to get a good seam, I respect a good tradesmen even if its considered retard tier because no matter what it takes years to perfect something. Jack of all trades, master of none reporting in. I've seen PhD's do some of the most retarded shit.
>>912289
I work on site and in 10 years of doing my job, sparks are the worst people to work around.
General rule of thumb being they're scruffy, dirty, unkempt, lazy, messy and disorganised.
>>912632
>Not a sparky thankyouverymuch
>telco
>Putting a jack in for $160.
>Working near panel.
>Someone dry walled it in and too tightly obviously
>Not my deal
>Sparkys are chop sawing some conduit outside. Cool. Whatever
>Chop sawing inside. Whatever.
>Turn around.
>Two geniuses have been shaving the edges off the panel with the chop saw, facing me, so that if the saw catches it I will have a 2x3' piece of steel in my back
>FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
