Im trying to make a home made electrolysis rig that I can use to split water into H2 and O2, and then direct the two gases into separate balloons for storage. The whole rig will be a closed system, thus allowing it to pressurize itself enough to inflate the balloons. I already have a pretty good idea of the design and how Im going to build it, with one exception. I cannot for the life of me figure out what to use for the electrodes. From past experience, I have determined that it must be both conductive (obviously) and also completely non-reactive. If copper, aluminum, steel, etc is used, it corrodes like crazy on the O2 end, and ends up creating some kind of weird oxide sludge that fouls up the whole reaction fairly quickly. I have tried using graphite pencil leads from mechanical pencils, and while these dont foul the reaction, they do break apart and become useless (probably because they are actually a graphite powder that is suspended in some kind of clay matrix or something, not solid graphite) The only thing that comes to mind that would work is gold and platinum, and while expense is one issue, scarcity is another, so even if I got something cheap that was only gold plated, I still cant think of what I could hack apart to get this.
>>TLDR: What can I use as an electrode that meets the following requirements.
1) conductive
2) non-reactive
3) easily available to your average college student (I dont want to buy any scientific instruments or anything)
4) reasonably priced (I dont want to buy a solid platinum electrode)
>>inb4 hydrogen is dangerous!
its only dangerous if it blows up, otherwise its totally safe. I have no intention of allowing it to explode.
>>inb4 hydrogen will escape from the balloons!
I know, Im not storing it for long enough for this to matter that much
I have thought of using the ends of a cat5 cable, but I dont know if that is coated with real gold. Does /diy/ think that might work?
>>895268
Why do you want to build this OP
>>895268
>"The whole rig will be a closed system, thus allowing it to pressurize itself enough to inflate the balloons."
>enclose system in air-tight container
>begin electrolysis
>gasses fill balloon to pre-flex apex
>gasses then begin to fall back into the container due to lack of force to fill the balloon
Good luck, OP.
>>895285
that is why it is sealed. so the increase in total pressure keeps that from happening.
>>895287
You might want to think a bit longer about that one. The water will actually absorb a part of the gass, getting enough pressure to actually inflate the ballon might prove difficult. A "U" shaped tube, sealed at one top with the cathode/anode below and the other side opened to allow the water on that side to rise might help.
On the part of the leads themselves, you might want to buy some fancy pencil and burn the wood of. You could even think of fancy patterns with holes in the sides untill the graphite for strenght or something. The pencil leads really look like they are the way to go. Another option would be to use the pencil leads to already have and reinforce them.
there are a million jewtube videos on this very topic. kindly check those out. if i remember, people generally use stainless steel bars as electrodes.
>>895285
>>895287
>reading comprehension
I've used 6b drawing pencil as an electrode before, but that was to produce iron oxide. Worked fine.
>OP is wannabe martian stranded in his moms basement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpotential
Iron/stainless will work but not well as the overpotential for oxygen production is high. If you actually pull it off, be careful. Also mesh is better than solid due to higher surface area.
>>895268
>I have no intention of allowing it to explode.
fucking boring pal
if you only wanted fun blowup gas you could run ac through it, you get a mix of gas at each side but the probes don't corrode
http://www.sundanceglass.com/lgtoolpiper.htm
Glassblowing / lampworking suppliers can give you some better quality graphite for cheap.. It doesnt seem like it is diluted with clay , based on how shiny it get when lightly polished and it is very dense.
1/8" is smallest diameter the linked site has, but that just a sample.. Is easy to work and a bargain at $1.65/ft.
you trying to build a rocket?
Hello fbi
>>895349
I dont think OP realizes how easily H can explode, or with what force. Id like to live down the street when he sends his mom's house into orbit via his new basement launch system.
>H2 and O2
OP is a college student and doesn't understand that water produces 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen.
I don't think you are ready for this type of project.
Stick with the potato clock.
>>895430
No, OP is correct.
At atmospheric pressure, oxygen will react with itself to form O2, giving you a 2:1 ratio of H2 and O2.
Monatomic oxygen only exists high up in the atmosphere, near space.
you get a 2:1 ratio of O2 and H2
>>895430
He was not talking about specific amounts just the resulting gasses. He will get H2 and O2 but in a 2:1 ratio
>>895418
Especially handling it in close proximity to pure O2, and using such fit for purpose containment materials like balloons
>>895525
At least he isn't mixing them together like the most people building these electrolysis setups seem to do.
>>895268
Use 316L stainless steel, its commonly used in surgical implants and its very corrosive resisted.
Just make sure you do not overcharge your electrodes, when you put enough power on it almost everything will corrode away.
If you want to spend a lot of money you can also use platinum plated electrodes but it is certainly not needed.
A setup with the correct voltage/amp can run years on 316L SS electrodes.
That said I doubt that a closed system is the way to go, a rupture of a pressurized hydrogen balloon can kill your eardrums and windows if ignited.
>>895268
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofmann_voltameter
>>895268
umm.. i think that using stainless steel will result in hexavalent chromium. enjoy your super cancer.
just use copper and deal with a little corrosion.
>>895268
Silver wire is pretty inert and pretty cheap. If you need something more inert than that you can buy gold chloride from a photography chemical supply store and plate your silver electrodes with gold.
>>895319
>stainless steel bars as electrodes.
Literal cancer. This is what you don't listen to diy if they're clearly retarded at a subject
>>895277
No OP, but being able to generate (relatively) pure hydrogen and oxygen could be fun. You would never have to worry about not having helium for a kids birthday, or if you're exercising in your garage you can jump over for a quick dose of pure oxygen.
>>896107
>You would never have to worry about not having helium for a kids birthday
you would have to worry about lighting the candles
just hand out safety glasses i guess
>>896107
>worry about not having helium
You could use the carbon electrodes from 6 volt carbon zinc lantern batteries. They have 4 3/8ths diameter by 3" electrodes each, and only cost like 4 bucks.
>>896133
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Extraction_and_use
>>895612
Only if you use a water + salt solution.
>>896430
False. As the stainless breaks down the chrome stays in the water.
Enjoy your cancerous toxic hazmat sludge.
Diy not doing its research again....
As someone who has built HHO generators, I can tell you from experience that while the hydrogen side (cathode)- is okay with 316 stainless steel, the oxygen side (anode)+ will still corrode like hell. Nothing short of titanium or platinum is suitable for the anode.
Since this thread is here anyone else made any cells.
Has anyone in here tried DIY:ing high temperature electrolysis (HTE)? I've been looking at it as part of a larger system, but YSZ doesn't seem like the kind of thing you come by cheap..
You can buy fairly cheap solid graphite electrode sheets on ebay. Keep your rig away from home and don't be a jackass
>>897192
>YSZ
What the fuck is that used for? The Electrolyte Solid Oxide?
>>897189
What the fuck dude
>>897215
>>896107
Ever thought of making a minature zeplin?
>>inb4 hindenburg
That only happened once, and there were lots of airships that didnt blow up.
>>896135
thats an idea
>>895268
It's against the rules to mention the specifics of what you want to do.
>>896107
you just made my day
>You would never have to worry about not having helium for a kids birthday
>>895402
obviously not since he has no means to liquify the stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqjn3mup1So
>>897976
Wet cells are always inefficient because of current leakage between the plates. Too much current jumps around from one live plate to the next skipping out the neutral plates.
>>895268
Chem/physics student here.
With an electrolysis you get oxidation on your anode (which is positively charged in this case) and reduction on the cathode (negative). Without going into anything I would suggest both graphite electrodes, but to optimize conductivity, why not use graphite on the anode and any old shit (copper maybe) for the cathode? That would actually prevent your copper from oxidating at all.
>>899805
Going back to what the previous anon said, would platinum last a while? I found a piece and was looking for something to do with it
>>895268
Use graphite plates or graphite rods from lantern batteries, they're better than shitty pencil lead.
>>897189
what the fuck is that?
>>897192
Why bother? Reversible proton exchange fuel cells aren't that expensive if you know where to look.
>>900563
It's one Washing machine drum, one Dryer drum, two large Peddle Bins and a Large Microwave cover worth of Stainless Steel.
11x11ft total surface area. That's the name of the game- as much steel in contact with the electrolyte as possible. With minimal current leakage and no electrical connections in direct contact with gas or water.
>>900601
That doesn't answer the question. What the fuck is that? Are you using stainless steel for electrolysis?
>>900700
It is for HHO Welding. Google it, you will love it.
>>900812
And the advantage of this over regular welding is what now?
>>900837
How about you fuck off and read about it instead expecting us to spoon feed it all to you.
"HHO welding versus conventional welding"
There. Now fuck off you useless cunt.
>>900841
All I get is some stuff saying that HHO is a fringe science term for an 2:1 oxyhydrogen mixture claimed to have special properties. And that oxyhydrogen torches basically aren't used for welding anymore cause acetylene and arc welding are better
>>900837
The advantage is "Oh shit, I'm out of gas.. Let me get some more from the fucking TAP"
It's better than taking it in the ass from Airgas.
Also, explosive balloons.
>>895268
I've built one of these. The electrodes are made from chop-sawed pieces of a stainless steel door kickplate from Home Depot. One of the other posters mentioned that this will release Chromium into the water. They are correct. Don't drink it or dump it into your well-feeding watershed. When you are done with it, evaporate to dryness, label it as "Trace Chromium Salts" and turn it in on trash amnesty day. Use Sodium hydroxide (lye) or potassium hydroxide to make the water conductive. You need less volts, more amps. Electrolysis of water only takes 1.3 volts, any more than that is a waste.
Mine vent a mixture of O2 and H2 through a bubbler. That means the gas in the hose is explosive. It works so far. I have a flame arrestor in the torch head, but I'm inviting Murphy with this design. My next one will separate the gasses and be safer.
This guy: http://www.kurzweilai.net/a-low-cost-water-splitter-that-runs-on-an-ordinary-aaa-battery
has figured out how to use nickel-iron electrodes. That would be nice too. Stainless works for now. No visible corrosion in ~20 hours of intermittent use.
be safe, little bubbles of H can pop like a mother fucker if you make a spark.
>>900535
Platinum would last forever unless you have some really nasty shit in your water and insanely high voltage
>>901031
What kind of cake are you baking there, anon?
>>896107
>You would never have to worry about not having helium for a kids birthday
The kid would be a year older before you collected enough gas to fill a balloon.
>>902766
I'm always laughing at these guys that set up a little jar and electrodes and pipe it into the carburetor and claim crazy gas mileage!
I go through several cubic feet of gas on a NOX pass, and they claim this electrolysis keeps up with the intake.
Yu're probably just running way too much current through your electrodes. I have tried any voltage from 20 to 5 Volts and can tell 7 volts are optimal when using standart steel bolts as electrodes
>>897966
And how would one go about that? Liquefying hydrogen?
>>902903
Cool it with liquid helium, duh.
