>I dont understand why a car that has fuel, air and spark wont run.

Timing?

How sure are you the plug leads are in the right order on each end? Does it have cylinder numbers marked on the diz cap?

http://www.fordmods.com/ford-4l-and-6-cylinder-f1/anyone-know-firing-order-for-inline-6-cylinder-xh-ute-t12751.html

>>957941
yah, straight six. cylinder 1 is at the front of the engine. dizzy cap is marked with corresponding cylinder numbers.

thing is, it was doing this before I removed the distributor. the instructions for installation are to run diagnostic mode and rotate the distributor until it fires. I dont have a timing light atm. but will rig one up for final tune. I alligned the distributor shaft when reinstalling it using lines I marked on the engine and distributor before removing it. so it should be more or less 10oBTC +-2 but i have tried advancing and retarding slightly while cranking.

>>957942
Do you have compression?

>>957943
my dad was driving it in another city and had it towed back home. his report was that it started losing power then just suddenly died on him. when it got off the tow truck, it started up right away. possibly the journey jiggled something back to life or it had time to cool down on the journey? it was running before i changed the ignition module. but it gets spark on all cylinders which is why its so weird, if i'd have fucked that up, it wouldnt be sparking.

dont have a thing to test specifically for compression, just thumb. yes has compression. I think its an electrical fault because of the way it was intermittent and maybe I bumped a broken wire making it not work at all anymore.

You DID put oil in the engine, correct? Your post didn't say anything about checking the oil levels or the oil filter.

Also to idiot proof your diag., checj your grounds and then double check them

I'd be 99% sure that if everything that you say is true you have a blown head gasket or a cracked cylinder head.
Double check everything and do a compression test on the cylinders with a testing gauge.

>>957988
wouldn't it still crank and fire albeit roughly if there was a crack in the head or blown gasket?!

not firing seems to be an electrical problem - sometimes thats the worst as they are difficult to track down.

Catilytic converter? O2 sensors?

When you crank the vehicle does the check engine light stay illuminated or go out?

>>957933
Rent a compression tester from autozone. Your finger cant feel a diffrence between 12 and 30psi. They will require you to pay some monies. Pay em. Open the box instore and whip out your camera and take a picture of inside the box. And take a second picture for any noteable existing damage.. Use your tool. And return it.

Only reason why I say take a picture. The autozones around me are fucking scam artists. They'll sell parts that have been returned by someone with missing shit and tell someone else they resold it to they cannot take it back because its missing shit. They will rent out tools that someone broke that they didn't check when returned and in order to get a replacement for free off someone elses skin they will rent them out to someone and deny them the ability to return it. Because its broken.... Maybe thats just the 3 around me ive ever dealt with or known someone who has. But can never be too careful.

>>958015

You can buy a tester for $25 and you have it for life.

How much does it cost to rent one?

>>958018
Pretty sure his plan it to buy it, use it and then return it for a refund, which is pretty funny given he's accusing the store of being con artists.

>>958024

I see now. I didn't read the whole thing.

>>957979
yes there is oil and it's moderately clean.

>>958012
only error code is for a wheel speed sensor which just stops the ABS from working.

>>957980
I plugged everything back in. it cranks, sparks and gets fuel.

I will double check the distributor today.

>>958015
this is actually the reason I started buying all my car parts online.
>cheaper
>shit comes brand new

>go to autoparts store
>parts seem like they've been used for hackysack practice all day
>parts often faulty
>salespeople can't tell the difference between EPDM and nirtrile
>ask for 1/2" transmission hose
>brings out heater hose
>you dumb fuck
>ask for fuel injection hose
>brings out carby hose
they're only good for buying oil. but its not my car and they work full time so they want their car back asap

Sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Try running it on starting fluid. Dumping fuel into the manifold doesn't really work as a test on fuel injection vehicles.

If it runs, move down the line from the fuel pump. Replace the fuel filter. Test pressure at the fuel rail. If it's good, your regulator is probably gummed up and stuck closed. If not, you're dealing with something electrical not firing the injectors.

If it doesn't run, you have a compression issue, since you've already gone over the ignition system.

Smell the tailpipe after cranking and see if it smells like fuel. If it is I would double check the ignition system. I once had a distributor that had the rotor installed incorrectly and all the connectors on cap were one position off. For this case it is worth getting a timing light.

Sounds like a timing issue u less your head is so warped that it has no compression. Try what the anons above said with a comp. tester and then check your timing (ignition timing may be out hugely which is why it will sometimes sputter then die, you are hitting it on a semi run able point but because the rest of the firing order is off, it wont stay running unless you WOT and even then it may bog down.

I'll be lurking.

>>958131
WOT disables fuel delivery on fuel injected vehicles at crank though.

ok, I will go back to the distributor today.

>>958126
yup. smell of fuel.

if timing doesnt work then i'll be checking the injector wiring.

>The advice in this thread

A lot of it is shit.

If you are sure you have spark, fuel and at least some compression, it should fire. Perhaps not run, but at least something.

Are you sure you have the distributor wires plugged in properly? That's gotten me before (It was even wrong in my shop manual).

Like other anons said, get compression tester and see how that looks. If you are getting fuel and spark, that is the next logical step.

>>958155
I'm not saying WOT at cranking, I'm saying WOT when it sputters to life for a couple revolutions. Verify your compression per cylinder and that your ign timing is correct as is your wire position on the cap. Will continue lurking.

>>957944
Do you have compression on all cylinders? I once had a car come in with a broken can shaft. In line 4. Cylinder one and two were fine, but the crack was in the center so I got no compression on three and four

>>958167
ok so distributor perfectly alligned with TDC according to the factory notch on the harmonic balancer lined up with the marker on the engine block and distributor button lined up with the factory notch on the distributor pointing to cylinder 1.

will not fire even with starting fluid.

>>958258
>TDC

Is this TDC compression stroke?

If its TDC between exhaust and intake it is guaranteed not to work.

>>957933
You need to check fuel pressure. The fact that the fuel pump runs isnt good enough.
I had one that would start and die, start and die.
Tested the fuel pressure and it was fucking 4.
It was suppose to be 45.

does the engine oil smell like gasoline?

>>958267
what we did at my shop, we retrofitted a refillable pressurized can (for brake kleen n shit), and we would inject fuel directly into the rail

never had to push a car into the shop that was there for fuel pump

>>958267
fuel injected cars will run if you just dump a bunch of fuel in the intake manifold. you just need to pump the air pedal while cranking and you'll find a sweet spot where it will run. basically a ghetto carb.

>>958261
ahh good thinking. 4 stroke trickiness. I will try this.

it had a slight chug as though fuel was indeed burning in at least one cylinder. but no full sputtering action going on.

I would say pressure test the fuel rail as well, if you already haven't. You say you get a stream of fuel when you crack the line, but when running the fuel has to be under pressure to squirt from the injectors properly. If it's not atomized, it won't combust. The fuel pump might be going bad without having all the way gone.

>>958274
update: I did have the distributor in a cycle out.
spark plugs are black from no spark.
in process of cleaning spark plugs and reassembling.

>>958280
this is all true. but you can diagnose a fuel system problem with this
>>958274

>>957933
sheeeeeeiiiiiit
>spark plug 3+4 were just wet, no carbon.
sign of a cracked head gasket? will need compression tool after all

ok it's definitely a smartlock issue now. the light doesnt come on when ignition is in the on position.

>>958395
Have you done a computer reset since you re timed it?

nope, it was just the "engine" fuse.
running a 30 minute smartlock key reset now.

File: 1324232845597.gif (2 MB, 250x158) Image search: [Google]

2 MB, 250x158

>>958400
Always remember to disconnect that battery before monkeying with the electrics in a car, kids.

>>958403
op is die

>>958403
damn this ADD. I dont have time for that shit. but I do 99% of the time.

after tracing all the wiring, I took the distributor out to inspect it again. the rotor had a lot of resistance and I imagine this is what cooked the ignition module and the hall effect sensor. so moral of the story is: in a falcon it's not the ignition module that fails, it's the distributor bearing which generates heat, overheating the module.replace as unit. do not attempt to service distributor.

also flames out the intake on first attempt at firing so I must have fucked up the install again. not sure how I managed to get it 180 out after setting the tdc on the correct stroke but I will get back once I fix my fuckup.

>>959383
Oh well your making progress I guess.

ok finally finished. turned out to be the hall effect sensor in the distributor. it runs. just timed it by ear.

it has that weird old auto thing though where it takes a moment to think about accelerating after you put your foot down. hesitation? I dont know how to fix this. mine was like this and I can't remember what I did to fix it.

>>959464
Sounds like it is waiting for the downshift to me. At any speed under about 70mph it should kick down to second, which can take a moment. The cure is manual master-race.

>>959464
>just timed it by ear

Does this thing have a computer in charge of the ignition or is it only in charge of fuel?

>>959543
it's one of those early EFI hybrid vehicles.
two computers control the ignition and it has a distributor. the ignition module also somehow controls the positive voltage rail for fuel.

its a really fucking weird setup man. like the relays are daisychained. the fuel wont come on unless the ignition module is powered. but it also uses a coil instead of coilpacks which is what ignition modules are usually for.

I had trouble with it because it's a 97 model but that technology was out of date in JDM cars I have worked on from the 80s. the 300zx I worked on was from 88 and had coilpacks. the honda legend had a distributor but it wasnt adjustable, only clipped in one way. and the nubira I have now had wasted spark ignition. it's just weird that it has this retarded ancient technology in a car so modern.

in order to set the base timing, you need to line up the distributor arm with a notch on the distributor body that coresponds with spark plug 1. while the crank is set to TDC on cylinder 1. then you need to- and i shit you not - jump two pins in the diagnostic port while cranking the engine in order to enter diagnostic mode. then it learns the base timing. you need to swivel the distributor back and forth about 10 degrees while the engine hunts and listen for pinging. when you find a point where the engine doesnt rattle violently on its mounts, it's good to go. (although technically for some reason you're meant to use a timing light for what you already know is TDC because you fucking aligned it yourself a moment ago and not meant to adjust it, the ECU will automatically aim for 10BTDC) the ignition is turned off, then back to ON, then back to OFF then back to ON. now the ECU is reset and ready to learn timing maps.

>>959566
The base engine must be a hang over from the pre computer era. I seem to remember my uncle had some falcon with a computer controlled carburettor.

>>958317
Just a quick question because you never mentioned it
Did you gap the sparkplugs?
>"but the sparkplugs are pregaped"
no did you gap the sparkplugs yourself

>>958121
That seems hard to believe. They do everything based on a computer system. They look up the part and get the part number then go in the back and get the item with that part number. If the wrong item is in the box with a different part number then it's the fault of wherever they got the item from.

These exact symptoms have hit me before. Check your oil, if it smells sweet you have coolant in your oil and that means a blown fuel rail pressure regulator or crcked block, the other thing to check is the alternator or battery which could be going bad.

>>959597
spark plugs were pre-gapped at 1.1mm, the right gap for the engine. manual says 1-1.1mm

>>960058
not if you're buying hoses by the meter instead of paying over 9000$ for a preformed fancy OEM section.

>>960137
yah it was one of the things I considered. first thing I did was check the coolant and oil. turned out to just be the distributor.

>>958018
$0. You buy tool, then return for refund. Tools are used, you're really paying a deposit.

>>960622
you never go by the pre gap, you get the tool and check each gap before you install them.

>>960622
Never trust pre-gaps. Always double check.

Have you tried seeing if your crank angle position sensor is still good?

>>957933
ford falcon... it's not the smartlock that is playing up is it?