>>1007118
First off you need to either do some research on how standard lead acid batteries work, or give up. You have a spongy mass of lead at the anode (SPONGY to increase surface area. Drilling holes into a plate of lead will be terrible). Then you have another spongy mass of lead dioxide on the cathode.

If you really want to do this right you need to have a good way to increase the surface area i.e. speed of the reaction. It will increase the amperage you can draw from the battery. I've heard of people making their own lead paste and pushing them into grids. Give this a read: http://www.zetatalk10.com/docs/Batteries/Lead_Acid/How_To_Make_Lead_Acid_Battery_Plates_2008.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7gp3XjsH64
this is the best video on YT on how to make lead-acid batteries, ignore the low quality
Also lead is much cheaper if you get it yourself by getting it out of stones

>>1007144
does this guy have autism?

Wear proper PPE and practice safe lead handling. That shit is toxic and can fuck up your world.

My white trashbros wife had to get chelation because her trashdad loved to melt lead indoors for bullet casting.

Not everything is intelligent to /diy/ because even if your time is free there are more profitable ways to use it.

>>1007134
No drill holes in the separator not the lead. am doing my research. I have also hit a wall in it.
Is it just me or does google link to the same damn stuff over and over?

>>1007480
>google
Try very old (WW II era and older) hobby/diy books. It wasn't totally unusual for people to make their own batteries at that time.
Making batteries might be an interesting hobby, but if money and performance are the only reasons for you for doing this, prepare for disappointment.

>>1007489
This. Try the internet archive.

Many technologies are simple, but some are sufficiently complex they cannot economically or usefull or practically be simplified to "diy with no equipment" levels.

Part of learning DIY is learning theory (good on OP for being interested. A key part is learning what NOT to DIY because everything you expend time upon takes that time from other tasks which could benefit you more.

The lead price example is irrelevant because "lead prices" are not the key metric for a battery. Steel isn't terribly expensive but if you want a pickup truck, plain steel is no practical route to completing a vehicle.

Learn to think in industrial terms first then pick what you want for best result. If you are beset by fears of Apocalypse you need water more than electronic toys.

I suggest focusing on learning mechanics, welding and machining in that order parallel with learning electronics. They all go together.

For example, and I'm not a prepper, I don't require electronics for survival. They are a luxury and I enjoy them, but for emergencies like power outages I have a manual well pump. That takes care of survival water.

I have a pool which can double as a cistern and has stayed reasonably full for a year without maintenance. In old times it was typical to leave buckets and barrels outdoors to capture rain, and I do that to water my chickens. I could easily survive on the eggs and would cull birds for meat if needed.

If you are REALLY planning for bad times, enjoy solar and look for convenient battery sources but prioritize your survival needs before luxury.

Make your batteries easy to swap. In an Apocalypse old car batteries will remain abundant for a long time then production will restart.

You can produce low wattage from an alternator connected to a stationary bicycle. Some exercise equipment uses alternators and varies the load on them. (A great reason to snipe that shit at junk prices for metal, parts and play!)

Have fun!

>>1008523
Op here. For me the solar and off grid power system at the farm is very important. Yes I COULD find ways to go without it but I get such a quality of life from it. Also some tools either don't exist in manual form anymore or are way to tedious and time consuming to be an option. Would you want to spend hundreds of hours while building something using a manual drill driver?
The primary things I need the solar for is my dc freezer, fans, lights and the house pump. I am looking for a way to build a home where I spend no money maintaining it with external energy.
The issue i run into is it all needs batteries and they die. I did more research into the Plante cell. It literally is dead simple. A jelly roll of lead sheet with separators, charged, discharged at 10% the expected 20 hour rate. Once discharged dead flat you reverse the polarity and charge it back up. Do this 30 times. Every time it spongifies the lead and creates the chemical reaction you need. The thick plates give it long life, the jelly roll supports the active material which means as it ages and corrodes you dont lose capacity. Only at the very end does it fall apart. All the stuff I need to make it I can either get online or at auto stores. Lead sheet, Separators (mcmaster-carr) and a case to hold it in. Some extra work might be needed to neaten it up. Like molding terminals and making a pass through for the lid and a water hole. I might look into drilling the right threads so i can add a water miser cap or hydro cap to keep the gassing and acid mist down.

Ditto on the manual pump. I still use a 12 volt house pump for pressure but for pulling it out of the ground, mechanical is king.

Human power really isn't worth it. The average human can make about 100-200 watts if he is really fit. Using a bike is a poor way to make power. A better way is basically....remember the giant wheel from conan the barbarian? That but attached to a geared up low rpm alternator. Cont.

>>1009783
Doesn't have to be as big as the movie but the idea is the same. Running yourself to death to make power is not fun. Using your physical strength rather might be more productive or you can use multiple people or even animals to drive it. Also thinking about damming up the small creek near the house. Its year round and would probably only make 40-100 watts but thats a lot of power when its 24-7.

>>1009783
>Would you want to spend hundreds of hours while building something using a manual drill driver?

I have many old manual tools and they work quite well. It wouldn't take "hundreds of hours" extra for most use IF you select tools properly and you may often find hand tools more convenient than power. (I'm wallowing in both so no dog in that fight.)

BTW if you have a project where you drive a lot of screws or bolts, a "speed handle" is a wonderful thing. They have been used on aircraft panels longer than anyone reading this has been living.

A good vintage hand drill is worth owning even if you have power drills. Mine's a Millers Falls from the 1930s. Info on woodworking tools is abundant.

If you want Plante cells for long term use, I suggest making them as "industrial" as practical and ordering from industrial suppliers. Design everything for graceful simplicity, ease of manufacture and ease of service. Look into acid-proof vessels which may not be intended for batteries but would work well for your purpose.

McMaster-Carr, MSC, Grainger etc etc are useful but tend to be high since they are "need it now" suppliers to industry. Look deeper and get quotes DIRECTLY from local METAL suppliers. Get multiple quotes because prices vary dramatically. Look into industrial lead suppliers and CONTACT their salesmen.

I would isolate the battery storage shed and have enough room there for full battery teardown and maintenance.

I would separately (fratricide from fire sucks) have a structure with a conventional genset run off propane. (Gasoline stores badly.)

>>1009793
Yes I planned on an outdoor building with buried service to the house. Just seems neater and I dont have to worry about hydrogen venting as much.

Mcmastercarr is a good supplier of poly felt which i need for the separators and the price is not that bad. The lead is the main issue right now, will likely be the highest cost. Lead sheet can be had online but seems a bit.....high. Seems to rest about 2-3 dollars a lb when i should be around a dollar (current lead price is 89 cents a lb). I will shop around.
In the book I have it lists suppliers. I found this company.
http://www.tulipcorp.com/industrial-motive-battery-jars.php
They sell the cases themselves, the terminals and the tops. So I can save myself a TON of labor involved and make it a lot neater. I'm thinking quarter inch thick plates. The standard of fork truck cell thickness and rolling it into a jelly shape with poly felt pockets around the sheet. On the tops of the cell i would run the lead up to a chunk of lead bar where the terminals would screw in. What would keep the lead strips going up from sulfating and falling apart?

Update: emailed tulip for a quote on the cells. Should hear back monday. Ebay seems a good source of cheap lead. Any lead sellers here or know of places to buy? rotometals prices suck.

hmmm, Haven't got the quote yet but I am considering using a large mason jar with a plastic lid as a case for smaller test cells. Might use thinner plates to keep costs down. I figure If i can get some thin plate stuff to outlast the pasted plate stuff It should scale up fairly well. Googling says the average is 1/16th. Expected life of a pasted plate is 2-3 years best case scenario.

Grave bump. Still gonna do it. Called my local scrap yard. They sell pure lead for 70 cents a lb. Really brings the cost down. Just waiting on a paycheck and I will make a test battery. Will likely use a 1mm thin roll like a car battery and use large mason jars. A car battery deep cycled wont last long at all but if this lasts a lot longer than I know a thicker plate will be a bigger success. Saves me a ton of material and I dont have to wait years. I might even try another exact same set but with a lower acid to see if it lasts longer.

I hate companies. Can't buy cases.
>to much of a liability
They are afraid I will kill myself and they get sued.

>>1012702
You can find heavy-walled acid-resistant industrial containers to repurpose. You can also buy sheets of whatever plastic you like for removable lids, standoffs, or separators.

If you can find used truck or forklift batteries you can drain the cases then cut the tops out (not "off", leave edges for reinforcement) and make new gasketed lids for them.

Scrap prices won't stay bottomed forever so if ya wanna play, do it now.

Forklift batteries are large and HEAVY, but you can weld up a rolling cart to make them conveniently mobile. I'd use a trailer axle or two. Design EVERYTHING for easy handling from the start.

You should be able to cut the tops fairly neatly with a jigsaw blade designed for wood or a Sawzall. You can make holes with a holesaw or drill.

Wood resists acid and was used to make the first electroplating vats. I wouldn't case a battery with it but minor structures exposed to vapor, or a support pallet, could be durably made from wood.

BTW my redneck bro buys old golf cart batteries from a golf cart shop and gets enough good ones for his backup power needs. He scraps the bad ones. A golf cart shop can be a steady source if you beat the scrapyard price and take them "all" then sort later. Since you want to play with lead you could use all ya got.

Also check with big truck repair shops.

>>1013146
Not sure what I could use that would fit the bill. Is PVC acid resistant? It would be the right shape for a jelly roll cell. My local scrap yard sells soft pure lead for 70 cents a lb. Only issue with the pvc is making sure the bottom is sealed tight. Not sure if glues could hold or not with a pvc pipe cap. Otherwise, a perfect battery case. Long and 6-8 inches in diameter.