Why dont we build all homes on screw piles? Its cost effective and infinitely better then the concrete alternative.
>>1011568
rust
>>1011568
I would imagine it can only be used in very specific types of soil or ground condition... also rust/corrosion... and limited load bearing capability (you don't want heavy stuff focusing on a couple inches of soil and using only friction)
>>1011571
>galvanization
plus they can be replace with ease
>>1011581
>hey this thing is rusting, lets cover it with something that will rust in a different way for a while before rusting normally again.
also
>whoops a scratch from e.g. a stone in the ground, now it is rust.
>replaced easily
i can't think of anything better than having to move my entire house to replace a rusty bit of metal every decade.
>>1011568
Ive seen these used for a sinking foundation but thats it. I wounder about water flowing around them over time.
>>1011584
>i can't think of anything better than having to move my entire house to replace a rusty bit of metal every decade.
Not him but like I said above I have seen these used to save a sinking foundation. Nothing stopping you from designing to replace them one at a time from the inside.
>>1011584
>every decade
try 200 years in some of the worst conditions
concrete exposed to moist conditions becomes mush in <50 years
>>1011588
>200 years in the worst conditions.
You are fucking joking right?
Here in the tropics exposed steel starts rusting before the end of the day just by the amount of humidity in the air.
When you build a concrete structure you use steel to reinforce is anyway but if you don't fully encase the steel it actually starts to rust from that point and starts cracking the concrete due to the expansion of the steel as it oxidizes.
And when it comes to a marine environment concrete mooring blocks are made so that you can replace the eyelets because the steel always goes first.
Concrete almost always outlasts the steel but it relies on the steel for strength so without the steel the concrete is useless but in terms of actual material degredation concrete bonds hold through more weathering conditions than steel
>>1011588
no it doesnt. We use concrete pylons you retarded for bridges.
>>1011588
>concrete exposed to moist conditions becomes mush in <50 years
That's not concrete, that's hardtack.
>>1011598
Rebars in concrete, that are exposed to wet conditions, actually rust, expand, and crack the concrete (this takes a long time). This is why modern bridges normally use super expensive stainless steel rebar, which will last many lifetimes before something like that will ever happen.
>>1011675
I like how you took my statement and told me it.
>>1011685
Dude, if you use stainless steel rebars in your concrete they won't crack due to rust. Normal steel rebars will rust, cause increasing pressures, and compromise the concrete, often times cracking it completely.
>>1011685
Don't you know that rust will oxidize the expand and rebat
Why not use plastic?
>>1011704
yah but when the conrete is encased in steel it can actually rust, increasing the pressure, and causing the rebar to crack
>>1011704
You are misunderstanding. Here's a video illustrating what happens.
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1466473428264.webm
>>1011568
Thats all well and good someplace with good soil, no earthquakes and without a frost depth measured in meters. Try that someplace near a fault, places that experience frost heavy or someplace with soupy soils and you will get 15 maybe 20 years out of it before something comes along to ruin your day.
>>1011750
That is literally what I had stated you miserable retard. Can't you fucking read?
Guys what if we made concrete screws?
>>1011754
/thread
It's almost like the building industry has been working for thousands of years and they have worked out what works best for their area of the world.
>>1011755
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust#Oxidation_of_iron
When impure (cast) iron is in contact with water, oxygen, other strong oxidants, or acids, it rusts. If salt is present, for example in seawater or salt spray, the iron tends to rust more quickly, as a result of electrochemical reactions. Iron metal is relatively unaffected by pure water or by dry oxygen. As with other metals, like aluminium, a tightly adhering oxide coating, a passivation layer, protects the bulk iron from further oxidation. The conversion of the passivating ferrous oxide layer to rust results from the combined action of two agents, usually oxygen and water.
Other degrading solutions are sulfur dioxide in water and carbon dioxide in water. Under these corrosive conditions, iron hydroxide species are formed. Unlike ferrous oxides, the hydroxides do not adhere to the bulk metal. As they form and flake off from the surface, fresh iron is exposed, and the corrosion process continues until either all of the iron is consumed or all of the oxygen, water, carbon dioxide, or sulfur dioxide in the system are removed or consumed.[2]
When iron rusts, the oxides take up more volume than the original metal; this expansion can generate enormous forces, damaging structures made with iron. See Economic effect for more details.
>>1011755
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but if the steel can come in contact with moisture, it can expand as it rusts, and crack the concrete.
>>1011571
then make the screws out of stainless steel
If oxidation is such an issue can anyone explain why the jackscrews in Chicago work?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_of_Chicago
>>1011568
becuze it will work like on 0.0000001% of the usabe land?
shit will rust or otherwise degrading depends on material
and houses are heavy... not evrione builds house from wood lol
>>1011996
The jackscrews are the device that raises the buildings. After that, standard foundation is installed.
>>1011866
Right, seriously, rust is a non issue with like, MOST other metals.
Why not (Literally anything) Aluminium?
>>1011568
> Its cost effective
what?
afaik piling is used only if you can't make normal foundations as it's hell expensive.
If the house is built close to, but off the ground, you will have a chimney effect if a fire ever gets started. This is one of the problems with older frame houses, that were built on concrete pylons or block, using major wood beams for floor systems.
It amazes me how people dont realize how incredibly cheap concrete is. In my years of building even rich mixes of concrete hover somewhere around $100 per yard. There is no way that solid stainless steel screw piles can be more cost effective on pure material price alone. Foundations get expensive when they get more complicated to form and place the concrete into the forms. Its not the shit that you end up with that makes it expensive, its the shit that holds it there while curing and the people that have to set the forms that adds up the costs.
I'm just confused by the concept of residential construction without a basement.
>>1012075
Why would you dig a gigantic hole for no reason if you didn't have to?
>>1012075
Why does there need to be a basement?
Is it because your dwelling is a basement?
>>1012063
It depends on the piling type, size, and installation method. A 4-feet long Sonotube cement piling isn't going to be as much as a 15 foot cement piling. However stainless steel pilings will be 10-30 times more costly.
>>1012074
Too true. Underground foundations in clay based soil are the bomb. No expensive forms needed and all you need to use is use a shovel, post hole digger, or PTO-driven auger at most. Even a mini track-hoe will be a cheap 1-day rental in comparison to stainless steel shit. God, I fucking love mini track-hoes.
>>1012088
midwest storm shelter
storage
stash your manchildren
>>1012075
Generally the only time you got for a basement is when you have to dig a fucking deep-ass foundation anyway. Like in places that have very deep frost lines and the danger of frost heave is significant. Out here in southern California many homes are build on a slab as we almost never see snow in the valleys. Freezing temps only ever come and night and then just barely. 25 degrees F is considered fucking cold out here.
>>1012058
Everything oxidizes. Oxygen is a real electron whore.
Every time I go "Hey I haven't been on /diy/ in a while" I ask myself why. Then I see a thread like this that's so full of retardation and people not having a single clue that it keeps me away from the entire board.
>>1011598
also,
>what is galvanic corosion
>what is soil made of
>it's partly made of salt
>literally leaving steel in a salt solution
>>1012058
aluminium does rust. you just dont see rust patches the way its used. because it's so weak it's very rarely used for anything exposed to the elements or structurally. there are aluminium lintels. but thats all i can think of even then they're rendered.
>>1012063
piling is used where there is a high need for support. like when supporting large structures or where the soil turns to mud easily.
>>1011598
>>1011762
>>1012024
>>1012074
all correct. concrete is cheaper. but there are times when you cant sink a 100ft concrete piling with a vibrator or hydraulic hammer because it will damage nearby buildings and annoy people or its just a stupid angle. they've been used for 150 years so they can be considered proven for even longer than copper alloy power cable or steel and concrete bridge design. concrete is just cheaper and easier. but you still want to use alternative methods if you dont want to damage a nearby historical building made of crumbling bricks that wont appreciate the vibration or getting a concrete truck out there will be extremely expensive.
>>1012381
>aluminium does rust
It doesn't, it oxidizes. There's a difference. And the oxide it forms prevents further oxidation until scratched through.
>because it's so weak it's very rarely used for anything exposed to the elements or structurally
Are you literally retarded?
>basically every fucking airplane built in the last 60 years
>aluminium siding
>pretty much any vehicle that needs weight cut
>the AR-15/AR-10 family
>car engines
>used in all sorts of housings for electronics and other shit
>fuck you I'm tired and can't think of any more examples but you're an idiot for thinking aluminium isn't often used for structural components and those exposed to the elements
>>1012381
We use aluminum a lot on boats. You can't tell me that a marine environment is not "in the elements"
>>1012384
>prevents further oxidation
It merely slows the process, it doesn't stop it.
why does nobody build ferroconcrete screws?
>>1011586
Which is why you use a big foot type pillar in the first place.
>>1011750
I'm sure this webm is asking for a jet fuel joke to be told, I just can't pinpoint at which moment exactly.
>>1011714
Plastic/fibre reinforced concrete is sometimes used for earthquake resistance on small concrete structures like houses in Haiti.
>>1012405
The oxide layer prevents oxygen from reaching the surface of the metal. Unless the oxide layer is disrupted, the metal underneath cannot oxidise.
This is in contrast to steel where the oxide does not adhere strongly to the underlying metal and hence will not produce a uniform air tight coating.
>>1012405
>It merely slows the process, it doesn't stop it.
Stop posting literally any time.
>>1012415
>This is in contrast to steel where the oxide does not adhere strongly to the underlying metal and hence will not produce a uniform air tight coating.
For rust this is true but certain kinds of iron oxides usually called patina form similar barriers to further oxidation though they can still be rusted through in poor conditions.
>>1012424
>though they can still be rusted through in poor conditions.
And those conditions are far less aggressive than the conditions needed to break through an aluminium oxide layer.
>>1011568
>Its cost effective and infinitely better then the concrete alternative.
> infinitely better.
Infinitely Better? If so, support your asserted conclusion!
Screw piles WOULD work for a shipping container house and could be fitted with integral screw jacks for levelling.You could buy corner fitting locks online to weld to your piles. Of course so does a railroad tie under each end bridging the load-bearing corner fittings.
>>1011568
When OP tries to take your concrete job from you. Fuck off.
>>1012424
LOL BUTTHURT FAGGOT
>>1012424
>barriers
They are not barriers. They are inhibitors. They still oxidize, just slower.
>>1012415
>The oxide layer prevents oxygen from reaching the surface of the metal. Unless the oxide layer is disrupted, the metal underneath cannot oxidise.
Have you ever seen extremely old aluminum that hasn't had the oxidation rubbed off? It is white. I just keeps oxidizing further down, but it takes a lot longer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJKlDjtqJG8
Why is this not used to prevent oxidation of rebar?
>>1011588
>concrete exposed to moist conditions becomes mush in <50 years
St. Thomas came up from Lake Mead to have a word with you.
>>1013620
Because they use stainless steel rebar for bridges and stuff now. Well, the states in the USA that are not piss poor that is. Other places only use it for the road base where chlorides from de-icing salts seep into them and in places where they are exposed to bodies of water.
However, they should use every method available to prevent corrosion of any pert of the structures. The biggest problem with retrofitting a corrosion prevention system is there are many gaps in it that allow water into the structure from the top. You end up with it holding water inside instead of drying out fast. It is similar to painting a wooden post that is already stuck in the ground. Sure the top is protected from the rain, but it is wicking up water from the unprotected portions underground.
>>1011581
Nope.
>>1011866
Cost.
>>1012058
Strength.
>>1011714
It's weak. That's why plastic is never used for any load baring support.
I'm surprised so many people are debating this non issue. Concrete piles are cost and time effective and retain strength and longevity.
If there were a better method, construction companies would already be using it but there isn't.
>>1013677
I am not american.
300k us gets me a concrete 3 bedroom 2 bathroom, 2 living room, kitchen, pool room, garage, utility room/workshop on a 2/3 acre of beautifully landscaped land.
A basement is just a PITA for no reward. If I need extra space for storage you just build a storage shed because we have space.
Basements are for no space fags.
>>1013709
try living in a big city. 300k is what my condo is worth. its 635 sq ft. a basement would be awesome right about now. do you know how hard it is to /diy/ in a 635 sqft condo?
>>1013709
What do you do when you have to bury your foundation 4 feet underground to prevent frost heaving? Shit that works where you live doesn't work everywhere mate.
>>1013709
your house isnt concrete its a wooden frame built out of contractor grade wood and nails sitting on maybe a 2 inch slab
>>1013679
spot on good sir
>>1013835
Or you can go another 4 feet and double the floor space of a single story home for minimal increase in cost. Some places in the States and Canada need even deeper basements. Right up until you get to the permafrost (which is looking less permanent with every passing year) it makes sense cost wise to make a basement.
Just accept the fact that you are wrong. Not every places needs their homes built the same way. I wouldn't build a home with a basement in some parts of Australia just like i wouldn't build a Queenslander in some parts of Canada.
>>1013844
It has an 8" slab for the floor and 6" blocks all the way around except for 4" blocks in the bathroom separations.
The roof is pitch pine with tar under corrugated galvanized steel.
>>1013923
Or you can realize that some fag gave a specific situation where basements are a good thing and I gave another specific situation that showed that it is not necessary
>>1011568
>screw piles?
*Helical piers
ftfy
I don't know what people are so concerned for. I've worked on concrete structures (tanks) installed 70+ years ago in extremely corrosive environments where the only areas requiring repair were exposed to methane gas and sulphuric acid vapours for 20 odd years.
>>1012384
Aluminum wire and siding are non structural, and aluminum engine blocks suck. Aluminum heads are pretty cool guys though, they dissipate heat faster while weighing less and doesn't afraid of anything (except overheating)
>>1014155
While concrete tends to last longer people don't realize how long a good galvanic coating can last.
The island resort across from me in my bay placed gabion baskets in front of some of their walls as a sea break and those are primarily underwater.
They did that over 20 years ago and even inspecting the totally submerged ones there are a few non concerning spots of rust here and there but they are all totally intact. Even the ones that have had a drug boat bounce off them
>>1011568
I machine the drive tools that actually screw the piles into the ground for a company called Bladepile. The steel they supply me to machine the drive units is 5160 but I'm not 100% sure on the steel they use for the piles, the website just says high tensile steel but I've never asked for an exact grade. It's definitely far more rust resistant than mild steel and the pieces they gave me out of their scrap bin have been sitting outside in the salt air (I live close to the beach) for a year now and its a little rusty but nothing compared to the mild steel plates in the same pile.
>>1011568
Itt: anons get rusted about concrete
water alone doesn't make steel rust
it needs oxygen too
that's why you fill steel piles with concrete - to prevent the inner surface from contact with oxygen
besides the water in soil doesn't contain enough oxygen anyway
the real danger is electric corrosion
>>1016326
Sweet Christmas. Water has oxygen in it in you nigger. It does randomly dissociate. Also it's an acid and base at the same time. Pure water with a pH of 7 still corrodes things with no salt or extra solute be they solid of gaseous. Fucking retard.
