In your opinion, which movie had/was
>higher stakes
>a more believable feud
>better action
>a more satisfying conclusion
>more faithful to source material
>>82884244
Both are shit, pretentious and fail at what it wanted to be but Civil War has a more satisfying conclusion and it's at least fun to watch.
>>82884244
>higher stakes
BvS but we have no real clue what Abomination was going to do or even what he was currently doing but I can generally assume it's much worse than just dismantling a private taskforce
>a more believable feud
Cap vs Iron Man. Bats vs Supes was incredibly one sided and even if you can convince anyone he actually had a problem with Batman, they were both still tricked by Lex in the most idiotic way. Both Tony fighting Cap to kill Bucky and arguing over the Accords felt way more realistic than any conflict in BvS.
>better action
Civil War. All the action scenes were generally well done except for Widow's shaky cam scenes. The video game-y CGI of the final fight in BvS is just really off putting at times. I know you need it to really showcase Supes power but it gets pretty ridiculous at times.
>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War I guess? Both had poor endings but I like what the end of Civil War implies. Nomad, Secret Avengers, anything really. The ending of BvS hints that Superman is coming back and that his death was just for cheap emotional impact while everybody knew they were going to form the JL.
>more faithful to source material
Neither but Civil War if I really had to give it to someone. The accords is the only real thing that can be comparable to the superhero registration act and the only thing that ties it to the comics. BvS on the other hand is not like The Dark Knight Returns at all or pretty much any of the World's Finest comics. Also Batman kills, Superman is broody, Lex is kooky.
Who fucking cares?
>>82884244
BvS
Civil War felt like an episode of Steven Universe
>>82884391
>which movie had/was
>BvS
>higher stakes
BvS
>a more believable feud
neither
>better action
BvS
>a more satisfying conclusion
neither
>more faithful to source material
neither
>higher stakes
BvS
>a more believable feud
BvS
>better action
BvS
>a more satisfying conclusion
BvS
>more faithful to source material
ehh civil war I guess
>>82884244
>>higher stakes
Probably BvS.
Superman, Lex, Doomsday - they're all global threats the likes of which could do untold damage if out of check. Where as Civil War? They were all still good guys, the fued was about HOW they do their good. And Bucky. But it wasn't an end-of-the-world kinda deal.
>>a more believable feud
Civil War. By far. But they had some 12 movies to lay that foundation...They did give more compelling reasons for Stark and Cap to take the sides they took. Where as Batman and Superman fought because Lex... Tony and Steve would have fought regardless of Zemo - just to a lesser extent.
>>better action
I guess it's hard to say. BvS had some 'epic' fight scenes. Where as CW had some great 'Wow!' moments. I give it a tie, only because they're too different in this regard.
>>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War.
>>more faithful to source material
Civil War was a far cry from the comic, but it still followed elements and themes present therein.
>>82884244
>>higher stakes
Batman v Superman. Civil War (both movie and comic) fail to take into account how essentially powerless the government is to stop Superheroes, and that's kind of the point of Superheroes. They function as modern day mythological characters who are larger than life.
>>a more believable feud
Civil War. Tony Stark is a narcissistic dick, and that's kind of the point of him as a character. While Batman being crazy does make sense the point is that you want Batman to stop being crazy and actually become friends with Superman.
>>better action
Batman v Superman. Say what you will about Batman v Superman; you can't argue that the warehouse scene isn't the BEST cape action scene in cinema.
>>a more satisfying conclusion
Batman v Superman. I felt like I'd witnessed something epic, whereas at the end of Civil War I felt like I'd been introduced to two characters (Spiderman and Black Panther)
>>more faithful to source material
Well as Civil War is literally based on an actual comic story while Batman v Superman is an amalgamation of lots of different things. I'd say Civil War even though the comic is awful and they made some necessary change it still had many the same problems as the comic.
>>82884582
>Tony and Steve would have fought regardless of Zemo
Not really. Take away the UN bombing and framing Bucky, and Steve just retires. The only way I see hom fighting then is if they did something fucked up to Wanda.
>>82884610
>I felt like I'd witnessed something epic
>>82884722
I liked Batman v Superman.
Deal with it.
Also, I didn't care too much for Civil War. Deal with it.
>>82884418
Better action my ass. BvS a shit
>>82884535
I smell shill
>>82884865
The action in Civil War was a dog's breakfast.
>>82884610
>Say what you will about Batman v Superman; you can't argue that the warehouse scene isn't the BEST cape action scene in cinema.
I can.
The shots were too dark and I have no idea wtf Batman was doing.
And if you mean the BvS fight itself, ot was too short.
Also Civil War had Giant-Man
>>82884244
>higher stakes
BvS
>a more believable feud
Civil War
>better action
Civil War, though I feel BvS could be on par it if it wasn't so dark all the time
>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War
>more faithful to source material
None of them were particularly faithful to the source material. Probably Civil War overall though.
>>82884827
And I laugh at you.
Deal with that.
>>82884909
>The shots were too dark and I have no idea wtf Batman was doing.
Looked pretty coherent to me.
>>82884880
Then that would make the BvS action dogshit.
>>82884827
>I felt like I'd witnessed something epic
>>82884865
That one Batman fight scene is better than any fight scene in the entire MCU.
>>82884918
>>82884926
>/tv/ shitposters can't handle an opinion
Don't you nerds have to jerk it to some Rotten Tomatoes reviews to affirm that your opinion is "objectively correct"?
>>82884919
I praise your attention.
I hot more out of Civil War. Then again I just love seeing Evans Cap kicking ass. Also spiderman, falcon, British Petroleum and Big guy 4 u.
>>82884925
Are you actually gonna tell me that that dorky slapfight from Civil War was better than the action in BvS?
>>82884928
>>>/tv/ is that way
Also nothing in BvS compares to the Winter Soldier fights
>>82884244
>higher stakes
BvS
>a more believable feud
BvS, since in CW they couldn't fucking decide whether the casus belli was Bucky or the Accords.
>better action
BvS
>a more satisfying conclusion
BvS, but I understand why many aren't happy
>more faithful to source material
Neither, since CW has nothing to do with the comic's story and BvS is basically a new story.
>>82884957
You're right, nothing can top these shots of Chris Evans.
>>82884954
Im saying it as it is.
Civil War had more variety in its fights. Thats a theme with the MCU: variety. Granted: MoS had some pretty epic DBZ-esque fights but thats MoS. And it gets dumb after a while.
>>82884957
>Also nothing in BvS compares to the Winter Soldier fights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXPOl6EjbWg#t=97
The fights scenes in Winter Soldier were a bunch of close up/medium shot shaky cam. Boring as hell. Batman v Superman at least had a sense of visual wit to the fight scenes.
>>82884958
>they couldn't fucking decide whether the casus belli was Bucky or the Accords
Bucky was the reason Cap went rogue. Cap had no reason to fight anyone over the Accords.
Accords were the reason Stark could be ordered to go capture him. Stark had no personal reason to give a single shit about Bucky.
Wow, it's almost as if neither happened in a vacuum and they both contributed
>>82884980
For the record I love those shots.
He clearly wants sluts
>>82884985
>Batman v Superman at least had a sense of visual idiocy to the fight scenes.
Ftfy
>>82884982
>Thats a theme with the MCU: variety
That's literally the last word that comes to mind. It's the most bland and samey thing in cinema right now.
>>82885007
The new Star Wars is blander
>>82884990
So the two main players in Civil Fucking War could not agree on what was the reason to fight each other. Not good for me.
Say what you want about BvS, but at least Batman had a clear motivation to fight Superman, while the latter tried to avoid a firect confrontation until the last moment.
Cap in CW and Superman in BvS both act selfishly but only BvS acknowledges it in the film. So it gets points for self awareness.
>>82885016
Rogue One looks interesting.
>>82884244
>Civil War
>Batman Vs Superman
>Batman Vs Superman
>Batman Vs Superman
>Civil War
>>82884957
The thing is the movie being discussed isn't Winter Soldier.
If it were there might be an actual argument as the fight scenes in Winter Soldier are all pretty great. But the fight scenes in Civil War, barring the first one against Crossbones were pretty forgettable.
>>82885020
>Batman had a clear motivation to fight Superman, while the latter tried to avoid a firect confrontation until the last moment.
Sounds like they didn't agree on the reason to fight each other.
>>82885001
What? I think BvS fight scene is fine.
>>82885034
Man I dunno what the hell you are smoking.
BvS was forgettable as fuck. Even the fight with Doomsday was merely a fight with a larger abomination.
I dont think Ill ever forget that airport fight. Theres a reason why they keep making threads about it
>>82885108
Fine bullshit, then sure
>>82885070
They didn't agree on whether to fight, that's vastly different. Bats had a reason, Superman wanted to avoid the fight. Superman clearly fought back only when he realized Batman had a way of killing him and dooming his mother in the process.
In CW, the two parties fought each other on completely different bases, bringing in people who had nothing to do with said reasons, but neither wehe in doubt on whether to fight each other.
>>82885108
It was slow, boring , and stiff. Also nonsensical
>>82885023
>Cap acts selfishly
>by protecting an innocent man from getting killed by police
If you replace Bucky with anyone else, no one would be saying anything about it.
>>82885159
How is it nonsensical?
>>82885179
He's not pulling rank on the cops for every guy who got a bad break. It's his buddy. So yeah it is selfish.
>>82884244
BvS was better on all accounts.
>>82885181
sh-shut up!
>>82885158
>In CW, the two parties fought each other on completely different bases,
Why is that a problem?
>bringing in people who had nothing to do with said reasons
So your problem is that each character has his own reason for being there instead of it just being a simple binary issue with everyone split down the middle?
>>82884244
>higher stakes
BvS
>a more believable feud
BvS
>better action
I'll say BvS, mostly because I don't get what's the motivation behind Hawkeye, Ant Man and Spidey. It felt like a bar fight. (Also, fuck Tony for manipulating a kid.)
>a more satisfying conclusion
BvS
>more faithful to source material
Civil War because it's actually based on a comic.
>>82885235
>each character has his own reason for being there
What's Scott's reason? The guy was all about being there for his daughter and staying out of jail at the end of his last movie, and then he's all for being part of an international incident because he's gay for Steve?
>>82885255
Captain America had info that the guy who bombed the UN is on his way to where 5 super soldiers are being held. You're one of the few people he felt he could call on at the time.
>because he's gay for Steve?
Do you just not realize who Captain Fucking America is in this universe?
>>82884244
Higher Stakes : BvS
Believable feud: both sucked
Better action: CW
Conclusion: both sucked
Source material: BvS
to be honest, both moves were underwhelming. BvS was the bigger turd
>http://letterboxd.com/joshrosenfield/film/captain-america-civil-war/
>The real battle royale this summer isn't between Batman and Superman, or between Captain America and Iron Man, or between the X-Men and the purple guy. It's over the soul of blockbuster cinema. Marvel has clearly staked its claim, and DC announced its own perspective rather loudly a few months ago. The latter made a film which, while admittedly convoluted, was at least a stab at something grandiose and new. It didn't make logical sense, but it felt like it did. There was an emotional truth to every punch. The former studio doesn't make films so much as it engineers them on a factory line. They're designed to be CinemaSins-proof, but they come off more as automatons than anything else. Yes, Captain America: Civil War makes sense. It makes logical sense. But it doesn't make emotional sense. That's the side Marvel's taken for years. And they're winning.
>>82885302
Also it was an opportunity to stick it to a Stark.
Look, you can't get your impression of the Starks from Hank fucking Pym and not grow to hate the lot of them.
>>82885302
Who cares who Cap is? Scott has a daughter. There's no reason for him to be on Steve's side except he's nominally an "outlaw."
>>82885130
Elaborate.
>>82885159
How? Especially the nonsensical one, please explain.
>>82885336
>There's no reason for him to be on Steve's side except he's nominally an "outlaw."
Or maybe he's genuinely concerned about what a guy like Zemo could do with 5 supersoldiers because he's a hero.
>>82885117
>I dont think Ill ever forget that airport fight. Theres a reason why they keep making threads about it
The airport fight just felt like a bunch of guys dicking around. It was fun to watch but I forgot like half of what happened.
IMO the fight between Tony, Cap, and Buck at the end was a far better one. Especially because it was so personal.
>>82885365
I disagree, the airport fight was fun and entertaining but capt, bulky vs stark is boring and awful especially when you compare it with the cap vs bulky in TWS or the airport fight.
>>82884865
I didn't like CW's airport scene "spot fest"
>>82885385
>bulky
>>82885385
>>82885365
Anons, please. Your opinions are both terrible.
>>82884957
>Bourne rip-off
give up, anon
>>82885365
You know what kind of ruins the whole airport thing for me? I was rewatching it recently and only the second or third time noticed that after the initial clash, Vision just kind of disappears until he crashes into Lang.
Makes sense. He can kind of fuck everyone's game up.
But still.
>>82884244
>Higher stake
BvS
>more believable feud
Civil War. They made logical steps toward their actions, whereas BvS made both characters retarded to make it happen.
>Better action
Civil War. Better and more of it
>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War. The team was still in pieces, good plot twist, no MARTHA to magically make everyone friends
>more faithful to the source material
>Civil War. Not muh Batman and Superman
>>82885394
Well, Stan's was so BULK, anon.
>>82885415
more like fat
>>82885412
>and only the second or third time noticed that after the initial clash, Vision just kind of disappears until he crashes into Lang.
It took you more than one viewing to notice that?
The only thing BvS had over CW was stakes and only manchildren think death-counts makes a movie 'epic'. AOU has more at stake than IM1, that does not make it a good or more enjoyable movie.
BvS is legitimately a movie with no integrity. It's a movie with four advertisements right in the middle of the second act, ruining any pacing what so ever. It's a movie that forces a fight between the two titular characters; where one drops a toiler onto the other one, *clunk* sound effect and all. It's a movie where a third random character, someone who has had no real presence within the movie, appears in the final climax in order to sell the trinity.
It's just amazing to me that people think that BvS is some film that holds the story and its characters in high regard cause it's not.
>>82884939
/tv/ shitposters are the BvSuckers.
You're being a faggot by pretending a movie that was disliked by the majority of /co/ is disliked merely because of /tv/ memes.
> People defending BvS
>>82885336
He's an outlaw who does what's right. So basically a perfect fit for Cap's side. If he were the type to do what he felt was wrong to stay with his daughter while 100% obeying the law, the Ant-Man movie would not have happened.
I mean, the Ant-Man creators are the ones that got the Russos to have him join Cap's side.
>>82885434
BvS is a bad movie but that don't make everything about it bad and we're talking about fight scene here, anon.
>>82885429
>we had to kill Superman because Batman needed to be the one to gather the Justice League together
>superheroes can't have a serious conversation in costume
>if I say "transcendent" enough times it'll make my movie good
The fans defending the movie put more effort into it than Snyder did, that's for sure
>>82885117
Hey, only 2/5 times I saw Batman v Superman was I high.
I remember Giant Man, and Spiderman shit talking, but otherwise I can't actually remember shit about the Airport fight.
Whereas I always smiled hard when Batman throws a crate at two goons with his grappling gun.
>>82885412
I remember reading somewhere that CW feels like a movie made entirely out of gifs and it kinda stick with me. All the oneliners made it even worse.
>All of this DCuck shilling
>>82885452
People forget that what landed him in jail in the first place was doing the right thing through illegal manners.
>>82885179
Buckey is as innocent as a drug driver in a car accident.
>>82884244
>higher stakes
BvS
>more beliveable feud
Civil War, but I liked how Lex and Bruce played foils to each other. BvS was more about Batman than Superman in that sense.
>better action
Both of them were pretty good, but Civil War's big airport fight was awesome and BvS doesn't have an equivalent of a big sprawling fight that shows off so many varied characters effectively.
>more satisfying conclusion
Actually, I say BvS. The only person in CW who had a clear character arc and ends up in a different place from where they started was Black Panther. Everyone else brings their character conflicts within the team to light but nothing is really done to resolve any of that conflict.
>more faithful to the source material
both of them diverge pretty hard from it. In Civil War's case though they miss all the stupid bits from the comics event, but BvS misses out on a lot of great opportunities as a result.
>>82885469
The Batman fight was the only fight in BvS better than anything in Civil War, mainly because it was like the Arkham games irl. But every other fight was pretty boring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1JAvW2vZr0
Truth
>>82885302
>Do you just not realize who Captain Fucking America is in this universe?
A living legend?
Actually we don't, do they teach people about Captain America in schools?
>>82885485
If the driver was kidnapped, force-fed alcohol and then strapped into a car against his will, maybe
>>82885465
Batfleck and Fight scene is good and that's not an excuse, anon.
>>82885485
That's a shit comparison. Being drunk is not the same as being sci-fi brainwashed and mind-controlled.
>>82885472
>it's a movie made of remarkable moments
Bruh
>>82885469
>it's a movie made of forgettable moments
Bruh, also nice that you remember a completely random and not that impressive bit from a scene, but that just proves you are more invested in Batman than in other characters.
>>82885485
A drunk driver who was intoxicated and put behind the wheel against their wishes maybe
>>82885485
I don't understand how people don't get that he was basically made into a remote controlled killer against his will. There's a scene where the villain explicitly brainwashes him against his will and he agrees to be locked up in the end until BP can take the shit out that makes him brainwashed
>>82885498
>prevented New York from getting bombed to shit in WW2; most likely went down in history as the single greatest hero of everyone's favorite war
>suddenly emerges right off the pages of a history book to punch aliens in the dick when they try to invade
>2 years later, uncovers the biggest conspiracy in human history and saves 20 million lives in the process
Yeah no he's kind of a big deal
>>82885498
He has his own museum and is a public figure, I'd say so.
>>82885413
>no MARTHA to magically make everyone friends
Instead they still remains friends despite trying to kill each other.
It says loads that people can argue endlessly about the moral code and opposing character views in Civil War, but Batman vs Superman was so shallow it induced no discussion like that whatsoever.
>>82885430
I'm not defending BvS, but this brand of shitposting is /tv/'s signature.
>/tv/cuck trying to fit in
>>82885485
That makes no sense, he didn't choose to be mindcontrolled.
Drunk drivers have agency, they made a choice.
If you don't get a choice you are a victim, an object acted upon or used to act.
>>82885500
>>82885513
>>82885517
>>82885538
He had plenty of opportunity to bite off his own tongue whenever they had to awaken his program.
>>82884244
>higher stakes
Batman vs Superman, obviously
>a more believable feud
Civil War
>better action
Civil War for the most part, but I actually quite liked the action in BvS as well
>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War
>more faithful to source material
Absolutely irrelevant, IMO. These movies are adaptations of characters, not plots - and even then, the adaptations are just that: adaptations. It's fine for movie Batman to be more flexible with killing. I even think it was fine for movie Superman to kill Zod. The characters and plots are inspired by the comics, but they are not and should not be the same. Some things simply work better in comics than they do in live-action film/television. I mean, take Daredevil as an example - he has a strict "no killing" rule, but that actually really takes me out of it in the TV show because with the way he kicks the shit out of people there's no doubt several of the mooks will have had serious brain trauma, if not been outright killed - especially with that wrench in the stairwell. Human toughness is highly inconsistent; people often die from being punched once and then falling down and smacking their head on the sidewalk, while others fall out of planes without parachutes, get struck by lightning, or have fucking poles through their brain and still live.
I went on a bit of a tangent there.
>>82885542
>prevented New York from getting bombed to shit in WW2; most likely went down in history as the single greatest hero of everyone's favorite war
But is that part known to people is it another giant secret that they kept quiet about?
>>82885548
But did they built that museum before or after he awoke in the modern world?
>>82885552
Except they actually show that none of them, except Iron Man in the final part, was going for the kill.
There is even a scene between Hawkeye and Black Widow that was literally made so that even the biggest idiots would understand that.
Evidently they didn't make it obvious enough
>>82885566
How would biting off his tongue stop him from hearing the trigger words? They didn't need him to talk m8
>>82885144
Crazy how much I agree with this autist.
>>82885557
Your attempts at bait are becoming ever more clear.
>>82885552
Because they all realize that Tony was just reacting to seeing his parents killed by a guy who was in the same room as him, even though it was against his will
All the actions were completely understandable and it's not to the point where it's not salvageable. These are completely realistic reactions.
>>82885577
>But is that part known to people is it another giant secret that they kept quiet about?
Why would anyone keep that a secret? Modern people know who the Red Skull was and what Hydra was trying to do in World War 2.
>>82885577
Before probably. I bet Stark funds it because Howard made it.
>>82885557
> This is clearly /tv/'s handiwork based on the fact that it's saying exactly the opposite of what /tv/ would.
>>82885566
...what?
>>82885587
>>82885516
>but that just proves you are more invested in Batman than in other characters.
Full disclosure I'm a total Batfag. But that warehouse fight scene and Ben's portrayal of Bruce made me so goddamn happy and I think it's the best live-action Batman we've got.
Oh, I'm not saying the crate throwing part is the best part of that movie, but it made me smile. Which is more than I can say for Civil War.
I will also say that I really like Captain America too, barring the Hulk Steve is my favorite Avenger and probably in my top fave favorite Marvel heroes (losing to Wolverine, Daredevil, the Hulk, and maybe someone else whom isn't coming to mind right now). I really liked The First Avenger, and I loved The Winter Soldier.
But Civil War DID NOT do it for me. I thought it was better than Age of Ultron, but that isn't saying much.
>>82885552
The only times people were trying to kill someone else was:
>BrainwashedBucky trying to kill Everyone
>Black Panther trying to kill Bucky
>Iron Man trying to kill Bucky
poor Bucky
>higher stakes
BvS since the entire earth was in danger. Stakes is a meaningless word though, it doesen't make something better or worse.
>a more believable feud
CW. It's been built up trhough several movies.
>better action
Both had good action, but I cared more about what was happening in CW so the final fight between IM and Cap+Bucky definetly beats Batman Vs Supes.
>a more satisfying conclusion
Neither.. Superman dying is dumb, CW ends with everything being too 'nice' again.
>more faithful to source material
CW, since it was based on a specific comic.
>>82885638
What the fuck is /tv/ saying nowadays? I'm pretty sure they spam "DKEK DKEK DKEK" all the time and pretty are pretty much biased for Marvel.
>>82885144
>>82885645
This is actually Snyder isn't it? The comment about "sex" was a dead give away.
>>82885645
>ORANGE AND TEAL, SHAKY CAM, SPEED-UP, COLOR TIMING
>STYLE
>>82885556
Tell that to Zod's snapped neck
>>82885624
Because world building and other reasons, do modern people really know about red skull and Hydra? Like I said, we don't know how much the public knows about Captain America before his reawakening. He could have been classified info, like how American army tested the effects Mustard gas in blacks.
>>82885585
You can tie from biting off your tongue
>>82885655
/tv/ spawned the "BvS is amazing, pure kino" meme that they then came here to spam.
As a reaction Marvel fags became even more savage when BvS got screwed up at the box office.
>>82885677
>you can die from
Yeah, or you can get treated immediatelly by Hydra and then suddenly you have no tongue but you must scream as you are tortured for decades
>>82885677
>You can tie from biting off your tongue
You can also be saved by the team of doctors surrounding you and still be a brainwashed killer, except now you're also mute
>>82885655
They side with whichever side is the most patently false or unpopular, so in this case /tv/ would favor the DCEU.
/tv/ eats up the cape-kino bullshit that Snyder's work exemplifies.
>>82885655
/tv/ is the only place you will find an army of Snyder apologist and shitposters ready to tell you why BvS was actual high art.
>>82885687
Holy shit. He goes off the rails a bit in that one.
>>82885655
/tv/ is basically
>20% Game of Thrones threads
>25% Actress threads (usually underaged actresses)
>10% Cape threads
>10% Other television threads
>30% Other shitposting
>5% Good threads (which die after 10 posts)
It really needs to be split into /film/ /tv/ and /celeb/
>>82885705
>>82885706
Fuck you I'm not a /tv/ poster and I liked Batman v Superman.
>>82884244
BvS. Downsday was a killing machine that could explote for no reason.
Civil war.
Civil war. Bvs action felt messi in the last fight.
Cw. Actually makes you care while in bvs you barely care for batman.
Overall cw. Fucking snyder thinks batman killed mutants in tdkr.
>>82885707
>>82884244
>higher stakes
BvS, easily. CW was more of an internal thing, while BvS had a more actual, visceral threat.
>a more believable feud
CW. It was just as much a clash of personalities as a clash of ideologies. In comparison, BvS barely made sense and felt a lot more forced.
>better action
CW. BvS went for a grander, more "epic" feel and ended up feeling fake as fuck. CW wasn't as grand but as a result felt more grounded and real.
>a more satisfying conclusion
Neither. They both had pretty lackluster conclusions and felt like they needed to be much longer to wrap things up in a satisfactory way. Though I'm far more interested in what CW seems to be leading into than BvS, so I guess it wins in that regard at least.
>more faithful to source material
CW. Both took a basic idea and did their own thing with it without slavishly sticking to the source material, but CW leaned more on the original story than BvS did.
>>82885677
>He could have been classified info
They were making propaganda videos about him. The museum had videos full of testimony from people who met him. Maybe pay attention and you won't have to ask all these dumb questions. Yes, everyone knows about Captain America.
The American government has no incentive to hide the fact that Germany wanted to bomb New York and America's greatest hero stopped it. Because that whole story makes America look good. Especially when there were plans to make similar bombs to use on cities around the world. Now America has more ammo to add to the "we saved eveeyone's asses in WW2" narrative
Why the fuck would they keep that a secret?
I remember Snyder talking in an interview about how much more hardcore his version of a batman movie would be than Nolan's Batman Begins.
> "In my movie Batman could get raped in prison, yeah, that could actually happen in one of my movies."
>>82885718
I feel for you then anon.
>>82885756
>Batman could get raped. Not with the costume on though. That would just be silly.
>>82885742
A guy dressed in the american flag saved the world.
Three times.
AMERICA
>>82885756
Is there a source for this? I need to hear this dumb shit with my own ears, because I don't think I could possibly have a lower opinion of Snyder and I want to prove myself wrong
I like how fa/tv/irgins says /co/mbler are BvS apologists and how /co/mbler says fa/tv/irgins are the BvS apologists even though both boards hate pretty much entirely hate BvS.
>>82885696
>>82885702
Excuses I say, keep your mouth shut and choke on your own blood.
>>82885742
I do pay attention, I still question it.
>Because that whole story makes America look good
It also makes them look incompetent, because one guy got very close to bombing new york.
>>82885756
That's not what he said. He just said that even "dark" comic book movies that turn certain geeks into pearl clutching schoolmarms aren't that dark.
>>82885756
I love how he says it like that is the kind of shit fans have been waiting to finally see in their capeflicks. Rape victim Batman. What a grand idea!
>>82885787
http://www.businessinsider.com/zack-snyder-old-interview-batman-prison-rape-2016-5
>>82885756
>>82885775
>>82885787
Batman was literally raped in the comics.
Back to /tv/ you fucks. When Hack Snyder reads more comics than you you know you fucked up.
>>82885792
>keep your mouth shut
By then they will finish the trigger words and just tell you to open it.
>you have a moral duty to commit suicide
Ok just fuck off already.
>>82885793
>Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go.
That is what he says.
>>82885809
>you have a moral duty to commit suicide
So he should just accept his life as a brainwashed killed? Do absolutely nothing to fight his fate?
>>82885800
> Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go.
>>82884244
>>higher stakes
BvS
When you are working with Superman you basically need bigger stakes, because he's just so powerful that anything else would seem, at least in a movie, too weak. Throw a Metal Gear against Cap or Batman and that can look like a serious problem, but against Supes it would just be laughable.
And, even ignoring that, they are still going for the kill in BvS, while for the most part the marvel heroes didn't want to kill
>>a more believable feud
CW by far. In BvS the latter didn't even had a real motivation for fight, he had to be forced to fight by Luthor to actually do anything.
Even the motivation of Batman is rather weak. He is supposed to be fighting because he doesn't trust Superman after what he and Zod did, but he really came out more like a bitter old hero that wasn't able to do anything and is envious of the new guy that is treated almost like Jesus by everybody
>>better action
CW
I can still remember parts of the airport fight and the final fight, while the BvS big fight is getting confused with an Italian superhero moviethat is still better than BvS toobecause of how much forgettable it was
>>a more satisfying conclusion
CW. It actually worked as a conclusion of the Captain America trilogy and as a sequel to TWS, while BvS is so obviously just a prequel to Justice League and not its own movie that it's not even funny
>>more faithful to source material
Neither of them is much faithful to its source material, but I would say CW. Not that this last point is that important
>>82885808
So every single retarded thing that has happened in the comics is justified and suddenly good if Zack picks it up? Batman has done literally EVERYTHING.
>>82885800
>The 50-year-old director also talks about how Superman would "pull your arm out of your socket" if he grabbed you.
>"People call me a superhero, but I don't even know what that means," Snyder's violent, imagined Superman says. "I just blew this guy to bits!"
I want WB to giv him carte blanche for his next movie. I want to see Superman pulling off arms and blowing up dudes.
>>82885811
And did that happen in the movie? He's saying if you want dark that's dark. These movies are only dark compared to a Disney film.
>>82885792
>I do pay attention, I still question it.
You question the facts of what happened in the movie? When we're shown that Captain America was headlining USO shows, and then later had his own radio serials and then he and the Howling Commandos were featured in documentaries, and then after he got frozen children on the street were playing captain America. After being shown all that, you question whether people knew Captain America existed? You dumb motherfucker.
>It also makes them look incompetent, because one guy got very close to bombing new york.
It makes them incompetent when a man armed with an extradimensional power source and infinite resources made a sci-fi plane capable of crossing the Atlantic in minutes, and they STILL managed to stop it? Whatever you say anon.
>>82885847
/tv/ ----->
>>82885821
He can, but he doesn't have a moral duty to it. That is to say, he is an innocent man whose only two choices are die or hope, whatever he chooses he remains innocent.
That and you are a fucking retard and him trying to kill himself would do nothing, only serve to make them try and improve their methods. That and make him a mute.
Fuck off already
>>82885732
How can I be as happy as Chris Evans all the time?
>>82885866
Working in Marvel Studios post Perlmutter seems like a fun place.
>>82885567
>I mean, take Daredevil as an example - he has a strict "no killing" rule, but that actually really takes me out of it in the TV show because with the way he kicks the shit out of people there's no doubt several of the mooks will have had serious brain trauma, if not been outright killed - especially with that wrench in the stairwell. Human toughness is highly inconsistent; people often die from being punched once and then falling down and smacking their head on the sidewalk, while others fall out of planes without parachutes, get struck by lightning, or have fucking poles through their brain and still live.
I actually noticed this in CW, where Captain America is trying to prevent deaths during the brawl with the German forces. It works for the most part, but then he starts slamming heads into walls and other such stuff. But that's just action movies for you.
I don't get why DC fans are always defending Snyder. Shouldn't you guys be mad at him more than anyone? I mean, it's your big movie he ruined with his grimderp tone and facile Christ analogies. Do you really want more of that?
>>82885866
Be a fit rich goodlooking aryan übermensch
>>82885800
Holy shit this interview
>My mother saw I was into this comic called Heavy Metal magazine, so she got me a subscription. You could call it ”high-brow” comics, but to me, that comic book was just pretty sexy! I had a buddy who tried getting me into ”normal” comic books, but I was all like, ”No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn’t really doing it for me.” I was a little broken, that way. So when Watchmen came along, I was, ”This is more my scene.”
>My mom always encouraged me, it was never weird. She’d look at Heavy Metal and go ”Woo-hoo!”
>When people saw our version of the Ozymandias costume on the Internet, some were like, ”It’s like a Joel Schumacher Batman movie! The costume has nipples! That’s crazy!” And I’m like, ”Yeah, but that’s the point!”
>>82885894
Inorite. The Marvel fans were pissed at Whedon after Age of Ultron.
>>82885887
If you want to go there every single action movie where the protagonist knocks people out "harmlessly" is bullshit
>>82885866
Become Captain America.
>>82885894
Many DC fans said it sucked.
>>82885808
Batman was raped, if I'm thinking of the same situation as you are, by a long time, off and on lover of his who drugged him.
He wasn't butt pounded in prison, which is the explicit image Snyder is conjuring for us.
>>82885905
He sounds legit retarded.
>>82885760
Meh, I don't mind. I get to enjoy a level of pretension for being one of the few people who liked Batman v Superman so I've got that going for me.
I'm just hoping Snyder gets to make Justice League Part I & II how he wants and WB is all "Make it like Marvel". I've enjoyed Man of Steel and Batman v Superman and where the DCEU is going thus far.
>>82885938
>He wasn't butt pounded in prison, which is the explicit image Snyder is conjuring for us.
I know, I'm disappointed too anon
>>82885905
Seems like a lot of people's problem with Snyder is how he brings forth the sublimated sexuality and violence of superheroes, when people want them to be "innocent."
>>82885857
But you see there is a difference between paying attention and remembering, what you described is from the first movie. Which I don't remember much about, the middle part has been blurred out for me.
>>82885964
That's not the problem at all. The problem is Zack thinks sex and violence automatically means 'adult and mature' and the absence of it means 'for kiddies'. It's a very infantile way of regarding fiction imo.
>>82885964
>http://www.out.com/armond-white/2016/3/24/sexiest-batman-and-superman-imaginable
>The men of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice may not please eunuchy fanboys but anyone old enough to experience morning wood will appreciate it. Taking that comic book novelty where superheroes temporarily become rivals, Batman/Bruce Wayne (played by Ben Affleck) mistakenly blames the recent destruction of Metropolis and nearby Gotham City during an invasion of aliens on the mid-battle appearance of Superman (played by Henry Cavill). The antagonism between these specimen (Affleck follows Cavill’s already muscled-up example) is based on both men’s confused urge to do good. Each orphan’s personal torment and heroic ambition amounts to a passion. Grindr might match them, yet they’re initially mismatched which means that when they finally meet—and fight—it’s equivalent to a hate fuck.
>That’s because director Zack Snyder’s movies are adult comic books—“adult” as in the old label “For Mature Audiences Only.” He goes against the juvenile vicarious pleasure of comic book surrogate crime-fighters to something deeper. Snyder’s Batman with his five o’clock shadow, supersedes the morose hero of Christopher Nolan’s gloomy The Dark Knight trilogy, just as his Superman (also Clark Kent) junks the jovial Superman of the Christopher Reeve movies and Brandon Routh in Bryan Singer’s adolescent fantasy. Thanks to Cavill, Snyder’s Superman/Kent looks to be in perpetual tumescence.
>Snyder, who made the live-action antiquity layout 300, and produced 300: Rise of an Empire, can’t help but sexualize his superheroes. Yet it’s worth noting that this is part of his very grown-up interest in how characters act out their private drives. The personal is political for Snyder which means that although Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent clash, due to misreading each other’s citizenship, they share a testosterone bromance.
>>82885964
>dbz fights
>muh sex
>so dark and brooding
Why doesn't Snyder move to Japan to make anime.
>>82885964
The sex and violence have to make sense, not just be "Batman can totally be ass raped" just to make the story 'edgier'
>>82886004
>They look good together because Affleck’s puffy-chin adult petulance (recalling his role as TV’s Superman George Reeves in Hollywoodland) may be the moodiest performance he’s ever given while Cavill’s virility (so chiseled it may well be from another world—the world of Sean Connery knock-offs) fits him to yin-yang completeness. Their confrontations disprove the delusion that men cannot make love face-to-face, the same way men fight. (Gay political pundit Andrew Sullivan makes a cameo appearance protesting “Every act is a political act!”)
>Ignore all that Internet nonsense against Affleck’s casting; he’s a warmer presence than Christian Bale’s stoic Batman who, at best, seemed a selfish lover. Check The Brothers Grimsby where Sacha Baron Cohen jokingly referred to the henchman played by Scott Adkins as “Ukrainian Ben Affleck;” it certified a hotness type. And smoldering Cavill wears the Superman uniform like a second skin. Costumer Michael Wilkinson’s brocade Superman suit is successful fetish gear—textured fabric with sequin octagonals invite you to touch that thin line between drag queen and stud. Male intimacy in this film gives new meaning to the old phrase “iron fist in a velvet glove.”
>If fanboys don’t cream to Batman’s dream sequence (“It took me to the lie, a beautiful lie” Wayne says), grown-up gay men surely will. In his dream, Batman wears a leathery mask, hiding his identity, while he is taunted by wasplike creatures and forced to acknowledge Superman’s equivalent virility. This goes beyond Guy Ritchie’s boy-boy teasing in last year’s The Man from U.N.C.L.E. (which co-starred Cavill). It is the most surreal dominance-submission dream in Hollywood history. But Batman v Superman is also a political allegory, using masculine sex appeal to examine America’s current political confusion. Zack Snyder’s comic book avatars are not for children.
>>82885964
>when people want them to be "innocent."
People loved a movie where the core issue was that Superheroes, no matter how hard they try or how good their intentions, leave behind a trail of broken lives and may not even be able to lead satisfying lives themselves.
Also, we live in a world where a Deadpool solo film made more money than a Superman solo film. People don't necessarily want "innocent." I couldn't begin to tell you what people want, because otherwise I'd be a rich marketer, but "innocent" isn't it.
>>82885964
I think it's more that he only wants to use superficial and superfluous themes that embody the most immature ideologies of what is "cool" and "mature".
>>82886004
That's a load of bullshit.
>>82885964
Snyder's problem is he thought himself some kind of cape genius after Watchmen, despite everything good or clever in that movie falling back entirely on Moore's writing.
>>82886029
How is it bullshit? Maybe you just don't want to acknowledge the homo-eroticism of superheroes.
>>82885922
Am I the only one who thinks he looks shit with a beard? Babyface suits him so much better.
>>82884610
I thought zod v supes in MoS was better than the warehouse desu
>>82885938
Rape is still rape you fucking apologist.
>>82886004
>>82886020
I'm so used to 4chan's affected, "ironic" faggotry, I sometimes I forget what real gayness looks like.
>>82886065
Ok you /tv/ piece of shit:
1. Nobody gives a shit about your black contrarian husbando, nobody but you shitposters
2. Dark movies are one thing, BvS isn't dark. It's a juvenile mess trying to pass as an adult film while crashing and burning icons. It's not a deconstruction, it's the fucking Hindenburg crashing down in flames.
3. We both know you are a baiting piece of shit like the guys who made the pure kino interpretation collages, we get that ironically being retarded is fun but there comes a point when you will legitimately become one just by assimilating that behavior
4.
>>>/tv/
Take your shitty contrarian husbando and go jerk off somewhere else
>>82886004
That was an interesting read. I never thought about a queer reading for Batman v Superman, but thinking about it there's definitely quite a bit there.
I mean it was already a fairly big exploration of masculinity in general, but then again pretty much every Superhero film good or bad is.
>>82886065
Not the guy you're replying to, but I agree with him that that is a load of bullshit. Not because superheroes can't be homoerotic - Batman and Superman have had so, so many moments where the reader basically has to go "FUCK'S SAKE JUST FUCK ALREADY", and the entire thing is filled to the brim with muscled paragons wrestling each other.
But nothing in BvS has anything to do with "adult", and any possible gay appeal there is purely based on the fact that Cavill and Affleck are a pair of certified fucking hunks. That is it. That's all. Cavill could spend the entire movie simply walking and smiling at the camera and he would induce boners.
I wish people would've stopped defending BvS and instead push WB to get rid of Snyder. It was possible, but there were enough people defending it for WB to spin it and call it "polarizing".
But now he's doing Justice League while they put patchwork on their other movies to make them "funnier" as if that was the point
>>82886395
Cereal King was already replaced Hack Snyder as the one in charge of DCEU. They also add Affleck as a watchdog for them in JL part 1 so Hack Snyder's role was reduce to a yes man director.
>>82886512
Um, this might sound weird, but who, or what, the fuck is Cereal King?
>>82886563
Geoff Johns, DC's CCO and a man who retardly obseses over cereal.
>>82885007
>It's the most bland and samey thing in cinema right now
You say that, bu provide no further detail. That is the definition of a buzzword, anon. How is giant-man fighting a panther guy who is fighting a hawkguy "samey"? That hasn't even been done before.
>>82886605
Ah, my bad. I didn't realise he was obsessed with cereal cause I don't really like Geoff John's stuff.
Mainly though it's cause I hate his Batman.
>>82884244
>>higher stakes
BvS, but the stakes were stupid too.
>>a more believable feud
Civil War, because of all the movies before had set the characters up, it was believable for them.
>>better action
Civil War.
>>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War, because I felt absolutely fuck all for Superman after he died, and I liked Man of Steel.
>>more faithful to source material
I'm pretty sure Civil War was based on only one thing instead of several things like BvS, so Civil War.
>>82886644
Yeah, I don't like his Batman as well but he's still better than Hack Snyder much more better.
>>82885158
Cap believes in people.
> He believes in Bucky.
> He believes in Wanda.
> He believes in Tony.
> He believes in the Avengers.
His weakness was his clinging to his past via Bucky after losing Peggy.
>>82885322
One of Civil War's central themes is emotions and how they effect people's choices.
>>82884244
BVS was shit, Civil War all the way. I wasn't sold on it until that last fight.
>>82884418
This a thousand times over
>>82886395
>I wish people would've stopped defending BvS
I'm a DC fan and even I can admit it was crap. The shilling for BVS on /co/ is pathetic. There's no shame in saying a product is no good and they need to do better.
Both were kind of silly
could easily just have had the characters discuss their problems, Though at least BvS showed that Batman was completely bonkers and would not have listened
The problem i will always have is any comic/movie/anything that is focussed around people wanting to control superhero types (mutant registration/ HUAC in JSA/ the accords in civil war)
because no one is allowed to go around beating the crap out of private citizens without being dragged into a court of law (even if they were justified) and violate the sovereignty of a nation.
I really liked the stairwell fight in Civil War. The airport fight was just goofy and felt out of place for an otherwise serious film (ant man was cool though)
bats and super mother having the same name is just as silly as bucky being winter solider and also murdering starks parents (like really...what are the fucking chances???)
I liked both films though. BvS gets attacked too much and Civil War isn't attacked enough. Id probably give the edge to Civil War though
>>82886968
>bats and super mother having the same name is just as silly as bucky being winter solider and also murdering starks parents (like really...what are the fucking chances???)
What are the chances of a Hydra assassin being used to murder someone that Hydra targeted?
>>>higher stakes
BvS
>a more believable feud
Civil War
>better action
BvS
>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War
>more faithful to source material
Civil War
Loved them both can't wait for the blurays to come out and wait em side by side
>>82886968
>bats and super mother having the same name is just as silly as bucky being winter solider and also murdering starks parents (like really...what are the fucking chances???
Yeah, Hydra taking out a founding member of SHIELD? What are the odds!
>>82885020
Why would they have to fucking agree on the reason they fight each other?
>Tony, I'm fighting against you because you stand in my way of stopping Zemo unleashing five Winter Soldiers on the world
>NUHHUH, STEVE WE'RE FIGHTING BECAUSE WE DON'T AGREE ON THE ACCORDS
>Okay Tony, that's why we're fighting, now let's get on with it
Tony and Steve had different goals in the film, and they fought to achieve those goals.
Why this is beyond your understanding is anyone's guess.
>>82885020
Are they supposed to meet and agree on one reason to have a conflict? It was multiple things. Why do you think them not having only one solid reason to be against each other is a valid criticism?
>Say what you want about BvS, but at least Batman had a clear motivation to fight Superman, while the latter tried to avoid a firect confrontation until the last moment.
>Superman: you have to hel-
>Batman shoots him with bullets
>Superman: THAT'S IT
>Superman shoves him 50 feet away from him
"The last possible minute". Batman was throwing nerf darts at Superman and Superman's first response was to antagonize him further until he got hit with kryptonite
>>82885255
Scott's ENTIRE thing is wanting to prove to his ex-wife and daughter that he's a hero.
What's the perfect way to fucking cement that belief in them forever?
Fighting alongside Captain Fucking America to save the entire world.
Staying out of prison was never the issue, so long as he sees his family.
You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?
>>82885365
The Cap/Tony fight is why I don't understand why people say CW had a weak 3rd act. It's one of the most intense sequences in the MCU.
>>82887380
Considering how they left eachother the first time they met (after the Batmobile wrecking) I don't know what Superman expected.
>>82886004
>>82886020
>Armo-
Dropped.
>>82884244
>Higher stakes
Technically BvS. But I didn't care about them because the conflict felt so stupid and manufactured.
>a more believable feud
Civil War, easily, if only because it wasn't a problem that could be solved in literally four words.
>better action
Depends on what you like. Personally Black Panther's Hunting Hawk did it for me more than anything in BvS.
>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War, but I dunno if that even counts as a conclusion.
>more faithful to the source material.
Now see this is an interesting question. NEITHER is particularly faithful to the source material, painting their conflicts and characters in broad strokes. But, I think Civil War is better for it, and the spirits of the characters are largely intact, while the original flavor of BvS is to its detriment.
Overall and at the end of th day however, I was satisfied enough with CW to watch it twice, and I only got through the entirety of BvS out of spite and not wanting to be one of those guys that leaves the theater midway.
>>82885964
Then how come the superhero movie that had a scene where the title character gets pegged is more popular than BvS?
"Stakes" as defined by these threads is such a meaningless metric for quality. Having "high stakes" boils down to "how many extras do we see running around and dying and being threatened".
And that's bullshit because Age of Ultron had the bad guy threatening an extinction level event; we still don't consider Ultron a great villain or the movie very good. Thor 2 went a step further and had the bad guy there threatening all nine realms, that's at least 9 earth sized planets. It still, justifably, ranks lowest on people's score cards.
People that use "stakes" as a measure of anything other than the creator's destruction boner are so desperate to have a leg up on what they view as competition that they've latched onto the dumbest thing possible.
>>82886004
>>82886020
okay, I'm willing to forgive snyder if he sexualises the hell out of wondy without making her a dyke
Her being turned on by being beaten up was a good start.
>>82884909
>The shots were too dark
Maybe that's just our local theater. I had no trouble seeing things
>>82888293
Perhaps change it to believable stakes. Say compare Hulkbuster vs Hulk to Bats Supes and WW vs Doomsday, Tony and Banner did lots of damage and many civilians were running for their lives, and the pre-Justice Leaguers managed to find an abandoned place to fight or something, oh and Clark Kent died I guess. How's that going to be resolved?
>>82884244
BvS on all counts
>>82888383
>How's that going to be resolved?
As if everyone and their mothers didn't already know.
Superman dying was a retarded idea.
But so was using Doomsday in the second movie of the DCEU.
The fact that Snyder looked at probably the most well received Batman films and went "You call that dark and edgy? I can show you dark and edgy" tells you all you need to know about him as a writer/director
>>82884244
BvS
BvS
CW
CW
Neither, CW deviates for a reason while BvS fails at being faithful
CW is by far the superior movie but BvS had by far the most potential
>>82884418
The fight between Bats and Supes was pretty eh-tier. Only good thing about the film is when Bats rescues Martha.
>>82884244
>higher stakes
BvS
>a more believable feud
BvS was more believable given what happened in MoS and that Bruce has been Batman for 20 years which turned him into a murderous cynic that had to be put down, Bruce and Clark also don't know each other and all they've seen is them at their worst moments, BvS was poorly writen though. CW felt way more constructed and Zemo was nothing more than a plot device but at the end everything did fit better together.
>better action
CW had some nice character fanservice scenes which was nice to see for the first time but looked kinda bland in hindsight, specially because you know they were pulling punches. BvS had superman and wonder woman closest to their canon powerlevel fighting against a walking nuke and batman actually being an stealth ninja and martial arts beast with all his gadgets fighting in Arkham games style.
So yeah BvS.
>a more satisfying conclusion
CW, I really felt bad for Tony and hated that self-righteous asshole Cap at the end. While with BvS, I know what Snyder was going for yet he failed at the execution again. I liked what Batman said at supermans funeral though.
>I've failed him, in life. I won't fail him in death
>more faithful to source material
none.
>>82888429
I smell shill
>>82889493
take a bath then
>>82885322
Good? Emotions are for animals. People are thinking creatures. Not the Civil War was smart in any way at all.
>>82884244
>higher stakes
bvs
>a more believeable fued
bvs, civil wars seemed super forced and the main reason for it all was dropped as soon as it was picked up because bucky came into it
>better action
civil war, but I think I'm only feeling that way because the story of it was boring as shit, it made the action pop out a lot more, but I enjoyed the fight scenes in bvs a lot more
>a more satisfying conclusion
they were both pretty unsatisfying
>more faithful to the source material
i guess bvs? they were both pretty similar where they just kinda fucked off with it, but I'm gonna have to go with bvs.
>>82885538
Regardless of him being brainwashed, he still fucking did it though
They touched on this for like, half a second in the movie and it almost saved it for me, but a normal fucking person would at least feel guilty about it, and bucky definitely would, especially MCU bucky. Theres no way he would be happy with getting off free for murdering all those people, and cap is a fucking cunt bag for not even trying to explain to tony what happened with his parents
>b-but he froze himself at the end!!
yeah thats fucking great, him literally going to sleep until they can save him, that sure is a great punishment
>>82888383
See here's the thing. I think what matters more is PERSONAL stakes. That doesn't have anything to do with belivability or how many people you're killing in the background or how many buildings you're knocking over. Like the main character's daughter being taken hostage? That's not probably going to end in the extinction of the human race, but we still feel for it.
That's why there's the cliche of characters saying "And this time, it's personal" and that's why it works. Because personal stakes have more emotional resonance with viewers. Small movies can be amazing too.
>>82884244
>>higher stakes
In terms of environmental destruction? BvS.
>>a more believable feud
Civil War. BvS basically summed up to "muh mom"
>>better action
Civil War, only because it was well choreographed. Other than that, I have a huge hard on for demi-gods destroying cities
>>a more satisfying conclusion
In my opinion, BvS
>>more faithful to source material
I didnt read Civil War
Even though I acknowledge that Civil War is a better movie, I still love BvS despite all the hate.
>>82884244
>>a more believable feud
>a more satisfying conclusion
Well let's see. One had the feud as incredibly one sided, even though that side was supposedly the "wrong" one, and was resolved with a single sentence. Literally "its his mother's name" and they're done. Conflict resolved. All that shit about how power corrupts and collateral damage and there's a chance he might go bad gets tossed out in four words. Best friends forever now!
The other has the characters actually talk abut their differences instead of just going straight into threats and dick waving. Everybody gets to make their stance clear, and each character raises some fairly cogent points. They talk like adults! What a concept! And as a result, people still arguing over who was right. Even has people that, when looking at the source conflict in the comics, are switching sides. And honestly I still haven't decided after three weeks and two viewings who's right because damn it they don't both have points.
>>82884244
BvS for all except maybe fight scenes.
Even if it failed at least it tried while as always marvel just sticks to its quip filled formula.
Why do people say BvS didn't do well? Didn't they like, triple their budget in ticket sales?
>>82891046
They came far below triple the film's budget, never mind the marketing budget.
>>82891009
>quip filled formula
Okay, let's stop with the lazy criticism. Are 'quips' a bad thing? I cringe everytime someone on this site uses the latest new buzzword to criticize something without actually explaining why it's bad.
>higher stakes
BvS, Doomsday was hit with a nuke and it only made him stronger, there was nothing humanity could to do to possibly stop him.
>a more believable feud
Cap and Iron Man both had good reasons to fight each other. Meanwhile, the world's greatest detective got tricked by newspaper clippings, Superman didn't want to fight Batman but did anyway for some reason.
>better action
I don't think the action in CW was better than TWS, but I'd probably chose it anyway. The airport scene was entertaining as well as creative, and the final fight in siberia was personal and had more of an impact than thousands of buildings and shit getting leveled.
>a more satisfying conclusion
I wasn't a fan of Cap and Iron Man still being friendly at the end of Civil War, it seemed a little eager to go back to the status quo. I would pick BvS if not for the lolsupermanisn'tactuallydead ending.
>more faithful to source material
Neither are faithful, they took elements from both Civil War/TDK but not a lot.
>>82884332
Agree
>>82890993
This. It's like they took the core of what CW was supposed to be in the comics and actually made each side balanced, as opposed to just making Tony a damn villain even though his initial point made sense.
>>82891046
I love this meme
>>82890993
>They talk like adults! What a concept!
But people in costumes talking is silly and audiences won't like it.
>>82890721
>Regardless of him being brainwashed, he still fucking did it though.
Are you saying that whenever a psychic villain take control of common people in a story to make them do criminal shit (stealing from banks and things like that) the common people should be considered guilty because of it?
>Theres no way he would be happy with getting off free for murdering all those people
And not him nor Cap thought of getting off free. Have you actually seen that, after Bucky was arrested without being killed, Cap had no real problem with the fact, and only helped him when Zemo came back to fuck shit up?
>>b-but he froze himself at the end!!
>yeah thats fucking great, him literally going to sleep until they can save him, that sure is a great punishment
Why should he be punished? Nothing of what he did was because he wanted it.
They didn't froze him as a punishment, they froze him because that was the only thing to do to keep Bucky alive without making him an unexploded bomb that could be reactivated by whatever Hydra guy wanting revenge
>>82887001
Yea what are the chances ?
A million hydra agents
One just happens to be Bucky
Bucky just happens to be captain America's friend from 70 years ago who just happens to be alive
It's sloppy writing. I'll buy winter solider being captain Americans friend even if it's idiotic ...but also killing Tony's parents (who happen to be driving around with secret solider formula...in the car together)
>>82884332
I agree with this but the action.
Say what you will about Zack Snyder, dude can make some nice action.
Some people talk about how action in MoS and BvS gave them a headache or was hard to look at,
But the only time I've felt something like that was actually Civil War
Civil War would change cameras 5 times a second during the fighting scenes.
Especially some of the earlier fights that were mostly Street level fisticuffs.
My favorite action scene of Civil War was probably when Bucky and cap double team Ironman for a few seconds, and it is probably the only time they stay at one camera angle for at least 5 seconds.
>>82884244
>higher stakes
Civil War. The relationships that were built over years of movies had higher stakes to me than the typical "fate of the world" stuff by the end of BvS.
>a more believable feud
Civil War. Why did Superman hate Batman for doing exactly the same thing he was doing?
>better action
Civil War. Hate to make this a sweep, but Black Panther's tunnel chase down of Bucky and the airport sequence was a lot more memorable than anything in BvS including Batman's brutal takedown of Lex's goons in the warehouse. Much of BvS' other fights feel like generic destruction to me. The real triumph of the airport sequence in Civil War was how much character they were able to show in the fight (Ant-Man turning to GiAnt-Man, Spidey's quips against others, etc.)
>a more satisfying conclusion
Civil War felt like The Empire Strikes Back of Marvel endings with the heroes on the run and the villain's plan being won. BvS had Superman kill himself in an incredibly contrived way.
>more faithful to source material
BvS because they chose TDKR, Justice League, and Death of Superman
