Let's have a thread about DC's cosmology and structure and nature of its universe and multiverse.
Will start with a Swam Thing thoughts.
>7
The idea fist came from looking at 7 in DC.
Don't get too hung up on 7 though, it is just the kicking off point that led to the main idea.
In DC the number Seven pops up a bit:
7 Lantern Corps
7 Aspects of God
7 Deadly Enemies of Man
7 Soldiers
7 Endless
And with Swam Thing the Seven Parliaments and Avatars of Life (Plant, Animal, Decay, Fungus, Bacteria, Mechanical/Digital, and Stories)
>>77439683
>Lantern Parliament Connection
I mostly just focused on the Lantern Corps and the Parliaments. The two in the comics have shown some connections with a Swamp Thing being a White Lantern at one point. As well as showing that The Parliament and Avatar of Decay or The Rot could be harmed by a white lantern energy. The connection comes from the white lantern which is the light for life.
>White Lantern and Entities
White lantern light is basically life. The lanterns all have an entity. The entities all arose from the first being to experience their particular emotion, and therefore the white entity called Entity arose from the first instance of life in the universe. The lanterns and white lantern arose from life. Also note lantern corps exist within a universe and vary between universes.
>>77439725
>Parliaments and Avatars
Parliaments are the embodiment of life for various types of life. The Green is the realm of plants ruled by The Parliament of Trees with their chosen Avatar and defender, in this case Swamp Thing. Parliaments arise from life as well. In DC's current time, robots and AI are coming to being and this newly emerging form of life led to the emergence of a new Parliament, The Metal, representing digital and mechanical life. Parliaments also exist within universe and vary across different universes.
>Life in DC
From life then we see the creation of both Lantern Corps and Parliaments. When Life first experienced a new emotion a new lantern light was formed (ex the first being to feel rage created the Red Lantern energy spectrum). When Life first experiences a new form a new Parliament is formed (ex when the first mechanical life came The Metal were created).
>>77439746
>Lanterns and Parliaments
Both emerging from Life the Lanterns and Parliaments reflect two aspects of Life. The Lanterns are the soul or spiritual side of Life while the Parliaments are the body or physical side of Life. Most lanterns are attuned to their emotions and spirit and Animal Man and Swamp thing are very attuned to the physical body. It is then with the white light we see when body and soul come together or the bridge between Lantern wielders and Avatars.
>Hypercrisis and Living Stories
If new parliaments come into existence when a new type of life begins and we saw in Swamp Thing a new parliament of stories, then that would be a reaction to that stories are starting to gain a life of their own. What if it was the recent coming to being of the hyercrisis itself that has started to make stories come alive and the parliament of stories is an effect of that. The world of DC is already staring to see the effects of the hypercrisis as it comes alive.
I don't have much to say but this is some good shit that I'm reading through.
>>77439772
I think that last assertion relies on whether or not the Parliament of stories bring a new creation. I was under the assumption that those fuckers had kind of anyways existed, Swamp Thing just discovered them. That being said, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>77439943
*being a new creation, or rather a new form of life
>>77439683
>>77439725
>>77439746
>>77439772
This hypercrisis thing is turning into a religion.In some way this just make it better
>>77440135
It's a paradigm through which people interpret events, meaning and context for a universe.
Just because it's a fictional universe doesn't make it any less of a belief system.
>>77439683
7 is just a really common number for that kinda thing.
Mario always has 7 regular Worlds and one boss world, as well as 7 Stars. You got 7 dwarves, 7 samurai, 7 Dragon Balls, 7 Harry Potter books, 7 notes in a scale, Mickey Mantle was number 7, 7 Words You Can Never Say on TV, 7 deadly sins, 7 days in a week, the Bible is FULL of 7s, 7 chakras, lucky number 7, nature has a lot of 7s, there used to be 7 planets, 7 colors of light, 7 seas, 7 continents, 7 wonders of the world, and so on.
It's just a kind of universally important number and DC reflects that.
>>77440524
That's mainly because it's a prime number. Every prime number under 10 is super-significant.
>>77440524
>Don't get too hung up on 7 though, it is just the kicking off point that led to the main idea.
/co/ just doesn't read does it?
>>77440524
Seven would make a great name.
Could DC use the Norse Gods or does Marvel have too much of a monopoly on them?
>>77442426
It'd probably be seen as them copying Marvel, even though I'm pretty sure there was at least one story where Diana went to the various Pantheons for aide, including the Norse.
Is the Presence Yahweh? If so, what does that make the Canaanite Pantheon he split from? How do the proto-Indo-European Gods such as Dyeus Pater play into it?
>>77442426
The Norse gods show up in DC from time to time, just not as often as the Olympians. Loki is a major villain in Sandman.
I've always like the Lords of Chaos and Order.
>>77441888
All I did was point out that 7 is an extremely common number in mythology and fiction.
>>77442366
There's the movie Se7en and the Star Trek character 7 of 9.
>>77442426
The Norse gods exist in DC but we don't see them much because they just hang out in Valhalla all day fucking off. Ice is related to them.
>>77442468
The Presence is God, Yahweh, Allah etc all kind of rolled into one. It's not really clear whether He is different in nature from other deities or if He is considered an even higher power.
One interpretation could be that all monotheistic gods are just aspects of a single creator God who created the Multiverse itself. Another is that they're all different interpretations of a being more powerful than any single deity but still of the same nature. Heaven and Hell exist in the same Godsphere as Apokolips and Olympus, but could perhaps be "higher" on the spectrum and closer to the Source.
In Marvel the One Above All is the true God of the universe in that he's literally the voice of the comic creators, but theoretically there is also a regular God that resides in Heaven. Morrison and Byrne have interacted with the DCU at different times but the nature of creation seems to be different. It's something that will probably never be clearly defined as the very idea of God varies so wildly from person to person and is a bit more controversial than various ancient mythological gods.
Canaanites could possibly be the literal predecessor to God in this universe. Extremely ancient gods exist in the same way New Gods and Greek gods do.
You have to keep in mind that the Godsphere is an extremely abstract concept, many beings probably inhabit the same role with many projections and identities, manifesting on Earth in many different ways.
>>77442725
That new shazam tie-in to the darkseid war seemed to have the source as the wellspring of deities.
>>77439683
>>77439683
I see the endless and the lanterns, who are the inner seven?
>>77443013
The justice League.
>>77443013
Seven Soldiers
>>77439943
I'm assuming they run that dimension with all the forgotten characters that Animal man went to in Morison's run.
>>77443145
Limbo? That place was also in Final Crisis.
>>77440970
Not just under 10. 13 has a lot uses too.
>>77443032
but who's who?
>>77443032
But who's who?
Tfw no Aquaman, Avatar of the Clear
>>77443187
>>77443346
It's actually the seven soldiers.
>the magician
Klarion
>the knight
Ystin
>the reporter
Manhatten guardian
>the escape artist
Shilo norman
>the witch
Zatanna
>the monster
Frankenstein
>the survivor
Bulleteer
>>77443433
Should I read the Seven Soldiers?
>>77443932
If you know what you're getting into first. It's a handful of stories that are only sort of related and part of a bigger plot that's all connected to it but not connected at the same time.
>>77443932
yes definitely
>>77442725
The Presence and the Source are two facets of a singular creator essence. The Source creates while the Presence maintains and refines. Sometimes the Source is also given a destructive aspect while other times it's implied that all things come to an end naturally.
>>77443433
I think magician and witch should be switched, despite genders. Zatanna is a magician by trade, and Klarion is a Witch-boy.
>>77443932
Yeah, I just finished it today. It's a lot better, and a lot more cohesive, than this guy makes it sound: >>77443975
It's set in the main DC universe but it has it's own vibes (different books explore different themes and story types). Almost like an Elseworlds, but not - it is in continuity.
More than anything it feels like a really good creator-owned universe by morrison. He calls all the shots and has some amazingly good artists working with him (including J.H.Williams).
I read it as part of reading pic related, and because I like Morrison's stuff in general.
For "black case book" kind of pre-reading, to see the silver / bronze age stuff Morrison was riffing on, see Justice League of America vol 1 #100-102.
>>77444974
Yep
>>77444974
Good point.
>>77444974
I second that motion
I really miss Soule's Swamp Thing. Hell I miss even Snyder's Swamp Thing some too.
>>77444974
This.
>>77446426
thanks! meant to save this the other day and forgot
>>77445206
isn't he (or didn't he) get a 6 issue mini thats soon?
im realizing now i dont know who is doing, or when the mini is, or if it even exists and it was just the prayers of an insane anon
>>77446814
Yes, Len Wein and Kelly Jones are doing a 6 issue mini starting in January
>>77439746
The Emotional Spectrum is software.
The Parliments are hardware
>>77447020
Who's the programmer?
>>77447376
no one. it works better when you think of it as an organism. Machine is marvels thing.
>>77446426
This reminds me of the different "Worlds" of DC.
With Anthro being of the First World, I forget the second, the Old Gods were the Third, the New Gods are the Fourth World, Morrison's Fifth World, I think Kamandi is the Sixth and LOSH is the Seventh World.
>>77447685
Anthro is the start of the age of man.
>>77447765
Then what are the first two worlds?
>>77446426
>Post-Secret Wars Marvel is the eighth version of that multiverse
HYPERCRISIS
>>77448055
The First World was the first beings in existence.
The Second World was when those beings ascended to godhood through technological and magical achievement.
Those original gods then created life throughout the multiverse, with those beings then becoming gods in their own right, bringing about the Third World.
These gods were what the New Gods called the Old Gods, and when they eventually destroyed themselves, the mortals living under them ascended to godhood and became the Fourth World.
The Fifth World was conceived as the DC Earth itself, with DotNG and Final Crisis depicting the end of the Fourth, and the implication that the Justice League were mankind's gods.
I don't think this is implied anywhere, but Kamandi could actually be seen as some sort of Sixth World, since mankind is dead and the beasts have risen to replace them, so theoretically the beastmen of Kamandi's world could eventually become gods themselves in the same way as their predecessors.
>>77448882
I've always been confused were Kamandi falls in the timeline.
>>77448055
They are usually kept secret and unknown.
>>77445206
We all do.
>>77439655
The seven chakras are related to the seven classic Justice league members:
>Crown Chakra
Aquaman
>Brow Chakra
Martian Manhunter
>Throat Chakra
The Flash
>Heart Chakra
Superman
>Solar Plexus Chakra
Green Lantern
>Sacral Chakra
Wonder Woman
>Root Chakra
Batman
>>77444733
The Source is different, its just the power source of all creation, [Lantern energy, Omega energy, or whatever 'infinite powers] we see Lucifer perched on it a while back.
The presence is the owner, the Source is just the CEO.
>>77439655
>>77439683
>>77439725
>>77439746
>>77439772
This needs to be screencapped. I might give it a go later myself if no one else does.
This hypercrisis discussion is fascinating. As a somewhat well-verses DC reader, where should I look to get a good idea of what the hypercrisis is? Apparently Grant Morrison talks about it alot? I know alot of DC characters, read the bat epic, but I don't know anything about the Parliaments, the Canaanite Gods, what this post >>77439683 is talking about. I'm gonna start reading this list >>77444976 , but are are there any online resources you'd all recommend I can use to find out more about what everyone is talking about?
>>77439683
>Fungus is seperate from Plant
Well, thats getting a bit technical about things, but I'll allow it.
Mostly because I don't think I've ever seen swampy do much with mold or mushrooms other than let it grow on him. Fungi being biologically different from plant cells is far less relevant because we're talking comicbooks..
>>77454040
There's not really a proper reading list. You mostly have to pick up details in the works that you read. Morrison's stuff is a good start but it's kind of everywhere, that's the point.
Obviously some books will tackle deeper concepts as far as cosmology goes, but there's no real way to know. I mean who would have expected a comic about a guy running fast to introduce the concept of the multiverse?
>>77451385
I know Grant Morrison has this view and even voiced that Batman was indeed the Root Chakra, Superman is the Heart and the Flash as the Throat chakra during a panel with Deepak Chopra.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZElezm1HULE
The other JL and their respected chakra seems spot on. Then again I don't know to much about Eastern mythicism so I hope other anons will contribute to the discussion.
Were we ever told what was the thing on Batmite's back suppose to be?
>>77451415
How does this fit in the with Overmonitor?
>>77454446
It's an imp.
>>77454446
Maybe we could hazard a guess if the picture was not for mites.
>>77439655
Where's the blue Swamp Thing from?
>>77454519
The end of Alan Moore's run
>>77454446
Its his actual form as a 5th dimenaional imp
>>77454446
>>77454552
MORRISON spoke about it at NYCC:
>Morrison finally revealed the green monster over the shoulder of Bat-mite in "Batman: RIP" to be what Bat-mite actually looks like in the fifth dimension peeking out.
>"I had this idea the creatures in the fifth dimension were so appalling to look at, they couldn't show themselves to humans. It's not because they're bad, it's just because if we were to look at them we'd fall apart and shit ourselves. Bat-mite very kindly disguises himself as a child-like version of Batman. What you see is the face of something in the fifth dimension.
>"The imagination is the fifth dimension. I was proposing the notion the fifth dimension is in your mind."
http://www.comicvine.com/batman/4005-1699/forums/whats-riding-bat-mite-in-rip-538873/
>>77454446
TRICKSTER'S BRIGADE
>>77454519
Nu52 Swamp Thing takes place after Moore's run and features a revived Alec Holland, who in turn becomes the Swamp Thing himself instead of having his memories superimposed over bog peat.
He later meets aforementioned bog peat.
