>I recoloured that recent Wonder Woman cover Frank Miller did for DC last week. Mine on the left, DC’s on the right. I did this to demonstrate a theory I have that despite the general critical consensus, there’s actually nothing wrong with Frank Miller’s recent art- it’s just that DC don’t know how to treat it.
>In January of this year I tried out to be a colourist for Frank Miller at DC. Not because being a colourist for the comics has always been my dream, or because I’m the world’s biggest Frank Miller fan, but because I kept seeing some pretty awesome drawings of his being critically savaged. He’s a good artist, but people were talking as if these recent drawings were the scrawlings of a lunatic. I felt like I needed to step in.
>Below is one of the Miller covers I recoloured for DC. My colours on the top, and DC’s original on the bottom. Here you can see the discrepancy between the potential I saw in these drawings, and what was actually being published.
http://harveyjames.tumblr.com/post/143735873863/theory-frank-millers-recent-work-is-good-but-dc
>>82420077
>I spoke to a couple of editors at DC and the consensus seemed to be that they loved what he was turning in. So why did every blog I read think it was the worst work he’d ever done? I believed I had the answer: that the colour treatment DC was giving to his art was in no way flattering to the type of work he was doing.
>My friend Julian Dassai said it best: “His work is dynamic and, in some cases, verging on abstract. Trying to color his stuff with representational lighting and rendering is pointless, whereas a flat, graphic approach (or just leaving it in b&w) allows the energy to jump off the page.”
>My colour job, followed by what DC actually published:
>>82420077
fucking based, hope he gets a job
>>82420095
>Frank is an artist who is constantly evolving, and his new work seems to be somewhere between Jim Mahfood, Sergio Aragonez and Ralph Steadman. It doesn’t make sense to colour him as if he’s an Image comics artist from the 90’s, all gradients, shadows and shiny metallic finish.
>Here’s another one. Again: my work on the top, DC’s on the bottom.
>All these images I’ve posted so far have two things in common- they were all widely dunked on and derided when they first went online, and they all prompted responses of “WHOA, COOL!” and “I LOVE THIS!” after I recoloured them and circulated them amongst my friends. So what happened here is ol’ Frank became the butt of everyone’s joke when actually, there was nothing wrong with his drawings.
>So how did this happen?
>Well, check out Frank’s work in the Sin City comics. When Frank works in black and white, he’s a one-man band. But when he works in colour, he hangs back and gives the colourist a lot of space. He knows that colours and inks are two halves of a whole.
>>82420132
>Lynn’s computer colouring on Dark Knight Strikes Again has all the invention and nuance of her colouring on Frank’s earlier work. However, her experimental digital art just isn’t a good fit for Frank’s traditional, brusque inkwork. The artwork in the book suffered a generally poor reception from fans and critics alike.
>I took a pass at colouring DK2, too. I include this not to throw shade on Lynn’s work, or to say that I’m a better colourist (I’m not), but just to support my claim that there’s nothing wrong with Frank’s pencils and inks in even the book that was generally regarded to be his worst. His lines have character and energy and do everything they need to do to tell the story, and with the right treatment would have looked pretty great.
>We can apply the same lessons to Frank’s most recent work. I’d read a whole comic that looked like either of the recoloured images below.
>>82420077
>>82420095
>no, guys, I swear. It's actually good! trust me.
This guy gets it
>>82420077
Get rid of the cluttered background and the recolour is fine.
But yeah, a lot of the problems with Miller's work could be solved with a colourist who knows what the fuck they're doing
way better with 80's colors
>>82420077
>webcomic loser with a tumblr account praising a guy who cannot draw anymore
Marvel, hire this guy ASAP!
I'm in total agreement. Holy Terror was like the most Frank Miller Frank Miller shit ever in terms of art. People say this is awful but it's a clear evolution of his style.
>>82420181
>DC liked my stuff, but they’re happy with the guy they already have colouring Frank’s work, and so my experiment has to run its course. Still, I want to believe that there’s something in here that we can all learn from.
>It’s important to pick the right team, and to utilise a stylistic approach that’s harmonious with what the rest of the group are doing. If you don’t, you might just end up with something terrible even though you worked your butt off. As we’ve seen, it can even happen to an exceptional talent like Frank. That’s a scary thought.
tldr, Frank Miller's artwork looks far better with bold chromatic coloring rather than what DC's colorists have been doing.
>>82420077
Frank miller is not very good
>>82420251
>DC liked my stuff
Can he prove it?
>>82420181
This one really makes the difference
I'd like to see a full remastered DK2 by Harvey
>recolor the art
>the story is automatically good
lol
>>82420264
He used to be one of the best in the 1980s.
>>82420264
he's a creative legend
>>82420314
>>82420353
not really. He's a pretty bad writer.
>>82420272
>Can he prove it?
He did We Are Robin #4, one of the landmark issues of last year.
While I like this guys recolors a lot more than what was actually released that doesn't mean that Miller's art hasn't been on a downward slide for the best decade
I like this art with these recolors
>>82420077
Where's her neck?
>>82420077
>there’s actually nothing wrong with Frank Miller’s recent art
>I’m the world’s biggest Frank Miller fan
Are all millerfags this deluded?
>>82420373
You're thinking of Roger McKenzie, who wrote DD.
>>82420388
So he's not the usual tumblrfag with a beef against DC?
>>82420077
>He recolored the edit
>>82420373
>He's a pretty bad writer.
I'm not gonna pretend he's the same as he was in the 80's.
But he's at the point where he has become Old Man Miller, and his stuff comes across as outsider art done by a demented mind.
Miller's stuff is still distinct, which can't be said for a lot of the forgettable stuff DC publishes.
This shit is like the "Snyder is actually a genius, BvS is brilliant, not shitty!" posts for comics.
>>82420411
Exactly. No matter how you recolor it, the art still sucks.
>>82420445
>a lot of the forgettable stuff DC publishes.
Do you really want a company war thread?
>>82420077
Wow, it looks so much better.
Doesn't the artist have any say in the way the colouring is done?
Was the colourist incompetent
>>82420077
He is right.
But you are on /co/, the place that shits on Miller and then goes to jerk off to Steven Universe, Star vs Evil, Squirrel Girl and their "superior" artstyle
>>82420419
>Are all millerfags this deluded?
Read again the sentence you quoted. The full sentence.
>>82420132
I honestly feel the bottom one is fine
atleast compared to some of the DKIII stuff
>>82420077
The art isn't BAD!
It was just a PRANK, bro!
>>82420538
>It was just a FRANK, bro!
>>82420522
>/co/, the place that shits on current Miller
Fixed. Everyone here loves Batman year One, DD, Ronin etc.
>>82420527
He's an enormous millerfag, which means he cannot see his idol fuck it up.I wonder if he liked The Spirit?
>>82420419
>So he's not the usual tumblrfag with a beef against DC?
He jut got his Bartkira project published and is married to a fashion model.
This is a good thread. I hate what seems to be DC's linewide adherence to representational pencilling and coloring. Especially the proliferation of fucking Poser tracers.
Just cartoon the book! It doesn't have to look like real life.
>>82420419
>So he's not the usual tumblrfag with a beef against DC?
he does art for DC
>>82420487
>Do you really want a company war thread?
I can be critical of DC while still liking DC comics.
I wouldn't be the fan I am today without Legends of the Dark Knight or some of their most celebrated works.
>>82420522
>shits on Miller and then goes to jerk off to Steven Universe
As we should.
>>82420077
>>82420095
This kind of coloring is bad in general, it's not just Frank Miller's art it ruins.
I don't understand how it's become the standard for the industry.
Excuse me, my name is, euh, Mr. Rellim (yes, that will do), and I think that Frank Miller fellow is an excellent creator.
>>82420522
/co/ loves ASBAR though. Don't know when that started to be unironic, but /co/ defends that book beyond "it's funny".
And there was TDKSA storytime a little while ago where people tried to defend it
Obviously the art is better without a colorist who's jerking off to Photoshop filters and gradients.
But it's still pretty bad.
>>82420593
>Poser tracers
Not at DC as far as I know; you're thinking of those Marvel hacks Deodato or Land.
>>82420618
Well, you don't seem to like DC comics...
>>82420574
>>/co/, the place that shits on current Miller
>Fixed. Everyone here loves Batman year One, DD, Ronin etc.
Hell ASBAR is cult /co/ classic and I've seen people unironically praise TDKSA and Holy Terror
>>82420077
Not gonan defen Miller's art because you can clearly see how it took a major dip in quality over the yers, but damn, it does look better if you color it like 89's comicbook or popart magazines.
I miss these style of art in comics, realistic/digital coloring isn't the answer to everything.
>>82420442
>>82420077
Oh shit, he actually re-colored the tumor
>>82420314
>>the story is automatically good
Isn't he talking about the artwork itself rather than saying that the story is good?
>>82420495
Usually, but as this dude says, Frank gives his colorists a lot of space
Of course sometimes the colorist doesn't listen to the penciler and you get The Killing Joke
>>82420522
Is this your first time here?
/co/ gets so triggered over Squirrel Girl so much it's fucking hilarious. I'm not saying it's not bad, but the amount of hate and attention it gets is uncalled for.
>>82420663
>unironically praise
We used to call it ""sarcasm."
>>82420666
Hey, he's a hardcore Miller fan; surely he thinks his writing is pure literature. besides, aren't comics a visual medium? The art should be good too.
>>82420662
>Not at DC
kudranski, janin, cliff richards
>>82420628
>This kind of coloring is bad in general, it's not just Frank Miller's art it ruins.
>I don't understand how it's become the standard for the industry.
We got away from House Styles but still have House Coloring.
I blame Brian Bolland for remastering the Killing Joke with more "sensible" colors.
It set a bad precedent.
>>82420670
>Of course sometimes the colorist doesn't listen to the penciler and you get The Killing Joke
It's been a while since I read that, what happened with the colourist there?
>>82420662
Michael Janin
>>82420646
ASBAR is undeniably satire
>>82420695
SG used to be much better written and drawn.
He's mostly right. DC's standard for colorists is rock bottom and has a massive negative impact on their product. People who criticize Miller's current work really don't get what he's doing or, frankly, how to view art.
Completely wrong about Lynn Varley on DKSA though. Her work on that is perfect.
>>82420670
and for TKJ the "wrong" colors were actually better
>>82420706
>aren't comics a visual medium? The art should be good too.
Sure, the art is a big part of what makes a comic good, but art can't save a trash story or make the writing (as in the plot and the speech, not the way it's presented) better.
>>82420662
>Not at DC as far as I know
A chunk of Rebirth is launching with poser-art interiors.
I still don't like any of these but the recolors do look cooler
>>82420711
>>82420728
Lucky me then; I pay more attention to writing.
>>82420719
Bolland gave the colorist instructions about what color scheme he wanted, and the colorist said "nah" and went nuts
>>82420663
>Hell ASBAR is cult /co/ classic
As it should be
>and I've seen people unironically praise TDKSA and Holy Terror
In Holy Terrors case at least, I think it's mostly just /pol/ types and people ironically liking it or liking it just to go against the grain.
>>82420757
Yes. And in this case we're talking about a comic with trash writing and trash art. A recolor won't save it.
>>82420764
I refused to read Grayson because I can't stand Janin's fake ass 'pencils'.
>>82420662
>Well, you don't seem to like DC comics...
You can love a thing and still want it to grow.
DC in my opinion needs to publish fewer, better books than what they've been doing in the last few years.
Rebirth seems to be just that, and done in good faith. They're focusing on their core titles.
That Frank Miller still even puts out work at all is more of a novelty than anything. It's like when poor Denny O'Neil was still writing Batman well past the point of having anything to say.
>>82420662
>Not at DC as far as I know
The artist on Grayson
>>82420706
>We used to call it ""sarcasm."
Maybe but I doubt it, go in the archives and read some of the recent TDKSA storytimes. All of the defenders seemed very earnest about their support and didn't seem like shitposters
>>82420706
>Hey, he's a hardcore Miller fan; surely he thinks his writing is pure literature.
If you had bothered to read, you'd see he points out how poorly DKSA was received.
>>82420764
>I pay more attention to writing
I want read past page 1 if I hate the art
>>82420815
I was having too much fun to notice.
>>82420832
>trusting /co/
>ever
Dude.
>>82420851
>how poorly DKSA was received.
By him included?
>>82420795
Huh, thanks, I'll have to look out for that on a reread, see if there's noticeable incongruity.
I've always thought that classic comics that have sub par art or colouring should get redrawn/coloured (keeping the same panelling), but I can see why that would be controversial and wouldn't happen.
Be nice though if it did.
>>82420879
>By him included?
Read what he wrote in his own words!
>>82420815
Janin's stuff is okay for me (I like the colouring, which helps a lot), but the Future's End issue makes me sad.
Would be such a great one shot if it weren't for the shit art.
What about Liefeld's art? Does anyone like that
>>82420719
>>82420795
Nah, it was coloring limitaions before the mid 90.s digital revolution (which prompted Marlel to buy Malibu). Comics used to be colored on a 4-color scheme be ause of printing process limitations. Bolland went back a couple years ago and used modern tech to create a more representational product.
The original colors were abstracted, but they served the storytelling and the emotion. Bolland's colors are autistic and unnecessary.
>>82420929
Probably some nostaligiafags out there do, but I don't really see anyone defending him here.
That just shows how bad Miller is now. He needs a colorist to add in a bunch of shit in the back ground and give everything a surreal color scheme to make it look halfway decent.
>>82420950
And if James recolored it?
His colouring is definitively and improvement, and he's right that DC has no idea how to approach Miller's work.
But Miller's art is still dogshit and a step down from his older work.
>>82420929
I liked X-Force and Youngblood, but the seeming natural tendency for pencillers to become more abstract as they age (see Simonson, Giffen, Byrne, JRJR) has only made Liefeld's work worse.
>>82421019
>Miller's art is still dogshit and a step down from his older work.
Maybe DC does know how to approach it then.
>>82420195
The art still isn't the best, but you could at least see how the official coloring makes it a lot worse than it should be.
My only problem is the implication Miller doesn't have final say in coloring. But that dudes examples rock and get me mad at DC
more evidence the falling out with Lynn Varley is what made Miller go mad
>>82420939
Limitations my ass, there are plenty of comics with realistic colors from the same time period as TKJ
Higgins just wanted to go nuts
>>82420077
That still looks bad, the line art looks a little more cool but the anatomy is completely wrong
He just deleted the tumblr post for some reason, the link 404s for me
Hes right, house-style coloring doesnt work on artists like Miller... but his recolors arent that much better.
>>82420758
gotta hit that double shipping
>>82420474
Except it isn't. Miller's work in the thread has two very distinct looks thanks to the coloring. All the guy is arguing is that gradients and lighting don't make sense for Miller's drawing style.
When people start arguing that the "R" rated cut of BvS is glorious, then you can post this again. And people will say that cut is better, just like they say all the expanded Watchmen cuts are good. Liking DC media, besides the comics, is suffering.
>>82421173
>muh anatomy
>>82421171
You're right. Higgins acid colors were a stylistic choice. But they were informed by the real printing limitations of the past. Bolland even cites that as a reason for his recolor.
>>82421192
>He just deleted the tumblr post for some reason, the link 404s for me
Holy shit he did!
I wonder if his bosses yelled at him?
>>82421278
probably.
>>82421208
I knew you wanted a company war...
>>82420077
I want a poster if the one on the left.
I dig that.
>>82421173
Picasso must trigger the fuck outta you
>>82421278
>>82421288
This is your fault, /co/.
>>82421292
He didn't mention Marvel once
>>82421192
It probably got too much attention so he deleted it.
>>82421328
He didn't need to.
>>82421319
>This is your fault, /co/.
Thousands of people on tumblr reblogged it, even a few industry professionals.
That's what got him, not /co/
>>82420802
The art in holy terror is fantastic and the action is very good as well.
>>82421348
So are we going to get an incredible spike in quality in the next few years?
Can we also bitch about employing armies of Brazilians to gang-ink books like Cyborg only produces ugly, uneven results?
>>82421409
He's not surviving the year.
>>82421000
nigga, holy terror's art was on point
>>82421409
Why would we?
>>82421426
Hey, you wanted the TPP you got the TPP.
>>82421173
>thinking miller has ever given two fucks about anatomy
>>82421446
Because Cerebus was fucking incredible after that decline in quality
>>82421499
If you hate women? Sure.
>>82421515
>I didn't read it
>>82421547
>I don't bathe in camel piss every morning to keep Voids away from me
Hi Dave. Still watched by the FBI?
>>82421348
Are you implying that Hard Boiled was bad? Because it's tight as shit
>>82421570
>I didn't read it
>>82421583
Remove the art and what remains? Not much.
>>82420662
>or Land.
Poser and porn aren't the same thing at all
>>82421601
>remove the most important part of a comic book and you have a shitty comic book
Well gosh fucking golly, anon
>>82421624
>reading comics for the art
No wonder that James guy praises Miller.
>>82421348
What about Ostrabder and his wife?
>I decided to set that Frank Miller post to private. I wrote the post as a defence of Frank’s recent drawings and an argument for why one colouring approach suits his work better than another, but it was pointed out to me that it looked as if I was criticising the work of those other colourists specifically, and how would I feel if that was my work? Well, I wouldn’t feel good about it, that’s for sure. My bad. Regardless of whether or not I think it’s the right approach for Frank’s inks, I could never do what those guys do- I’m not even sure HOW it’s done- and they’re in work because they have a very specialised skill few people are able to replicate.
>It’s been pointed out to me that Frank chose his own colourists on the DKIII project. So for this and other reasons I regret that clickbaity headline- “DC Don’t Know What To Do With His Work”. DC aren’t a monolithic entity! I knew that. They’re a company, comprised of a collection of people all with their own points of view.
>Making the transition from rando dude with a blog to industry professional is often a game of knowing where the appropriateness line is and knowing what side of it to be on in any given circumstance, and as a person with a lot of opinions and Stuff To Say that line can often get away from you. So there you go. Now I’m going to get on with making comics.
COLOURGATE 2016
>>82421601
I'm not saying the writing is great but it's not bad and the book is clearly Geoff Darrow's gig with Miller there to give him a something to draw.
It's not a showcase of Miller's writing ability but it's a competently told story that works with the art which is far more than can be said for 300 or TDKSA
>>82421319
It's our fault someone shared their opinion of their own free will on the internet and revoked it when they remembered others have free will to comment on it?
Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was America!
>>82421667
>COLOURGATE 2016
>colour
Are we filthy europoors now?
>>82420077
I'll admit that was what I was imagining it ought to look like when I saw it.
>>82421649
No idea. When did that happen?
>>82421667
>I regret that clickbaity headline- “DC Don’t Know What To Do With His Work”.
Come on, comic book websites are always saying that kind of bad things and no one complains!
>>82421702
>Blighty
>European
'a abaht Ah slap thy rubbish, bloody Yank?
>>82421724
Comic book websites don't do it defending Frank Miller, though
If anything, they do it to shit on him
>>82420077
Not found
>>82421701
FYI /co/ is cancer.
>>82421724
comic book websites aren't run by DC/Marvel staffers
inb4 greentext jokes
>>82421724
Kim Yale passed away in 1997
>>82421667
Well at least he admitted he was wrong
>>82421761
>Not found
see
>>82421667
>>82421641
I have favorite writers but I buy comics for the art. I don't buy books by writers I like if the art is shit, but I do buy books by writers I dislike because the art is good.
>>82421724
Sure, and comic book websites suck worse than Hudlin at Kwanza.
>>82421278
>>He just deleted the tumblr post for some reason, the link 404s for me
>Holy shit he did!
Fuck, let's save this shit, it's great and this guy shouldn't drop his pant.
>>82421812
>comic book websites aren't run by DC staffers
Fixed.
>Kim Yale passed away in 1997
Well, his comics didn't suffer; Star Wars, The Kents, The Spectre...
>>82420077
Doesn't really do anything to actually improve the piece. This is more like turning Miller's piece into Pop Art rather than trying to turn it into an engaging Wonder Woman piece.
>>82420095
This actually is an improvement on the pieces but the yellow background leaves something to be desired
>>82420132
>>82420181
Improvements but each of the originals also have interesting ideas that Harvey could have riffed off of instead of just saying "fuck the whols thing, here's my way" The muted colors on the Catwoman piece are pretty good in their own right, it doesn't need to be a pink panther poster to be engaging.
Batchick's pink hair would still pop out strong in the limited palette. Instead he just turned the page into a generic 80's printed page which is fine but none of the colors particularly standout. In fact he just made it safer and more boring to look at.
I mean, it's pretty fucking obvious an artist from the 80's that draws like he's still in the 90's would have better looking art with colorists that know how to treat the art like it's in a certain era.
Romita JR is similar where digital coloring really started to fuck with what his art could look like because it worked better with muted colors instead of the fucking shine that keeps getting applied to it. That recent Nightcrawler solo stint is another good example of newer digital coloring techniques fucking up art with a certain era in mind.
TL;DR James Harvey isn't as smart as he thinks he is and is spouting pretty obvious shit about older artists and newer colorists
>>82421854
>I do buy books by writers I dislike because the art is good.
That's why bendis still has a job.
>>82421902
He deleted it because it was brought to his attention that Miller chose the colorist instead of DC just putting one on it.
>>82421906
>he is and is spouting pretty obvious shit about older artists and newer colorists
it isn't as obvious considering the editorial at DC doesn't do shit to fix it
>>82421926
Mea culpa
>>82421903
>his comics didn't suffer
>Star Wars
Reminder that he wrote Legacy
>>82421973
It was good.
>>82421906
>TL;DR James Harvey isn't as smart as he thinks he is and is spouting pretty obvious shit about older artists and newer colorists
And yet he's also right.
>>82422017
It was good outside of the main character who took up most of the page space
>>82421348
Don't forget that Miller hooking up with an alcoholic, racist, and probably mentally unstable girlfriend probably had an effect on the quality of his work as well. At the very least, the lawsuit that he got dragged into (Miller was named as a co-defendant) can't have helped:
http://nypost.com/2012/10/10/ex-staffer-sues-dark-knight-comic-creator-girlfriend-for-hostile-work-environment/
I remember reading all sorts of rumors about how Miller and his girlfriend were pretty much just boozing it up throughout the production of The Spirit, which helps explain how that trainwreck of a movie turned out.
And I think they've also been thrown out and banned from all sorts of establishments in New York because of their drunken antics (although maybe those bans have been rescinded since Miller's public image seems to be undergoing a minor rehabilitation, what with him looking all sickly and all the past year or so).
>>82422244
Who is she?
>>82422345
She used to write for Blleding Cool. Go figure.
>>82422345
Kimberly Cox, former Bleeding Cool contributor. It was actually pretty weird to see the Bleeding Cool article on the lawsuit:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/10/10/frank-miller-and-kimberley-cox-sued-by-former-employee/
>>82421034
I think Liefeld has two major problems. His mega success at a very young age probably led to him becoming complacent with his art and he stopped trying to improve. And he can no longer afford the great inkes and colorists he had in the early Extreme days
>>82420251
>tldr, Frank Miller's artwork looks far better with bold chromatic coloring rather than what DC's colorists have been doing.
A polished turd is still shit. None of those recolours, like the originals, look good. It's fine for art fags to make into a poster or whatever, but it makes reading a comic unbearable.
>>82420442
What edit?
>>82423273
See the top right side of her head
There is like a second chunk of hair and tiara glued to it
>>82423303
I'm blind. HOW DID I MISS THAT???
>>82422985
I think liefeld's work is still perfect for its intended audience of 8-12 year old boys
It's not his fault that a bunch of 20-30 year olds decided to make a name for themselves on the internet by shitting on the last bunch of comics ever written/drawn for 8-12 year olds, doing their part to usher in the era of comics written and drawn exclusively for 30 year old men
>>82423367
Comics weren't for kids well before Liefeld and his bunch popped up
>>82423260
Counterpoint: you're dumb and ugly
>>82423367
>8-12 year old boys
That's a fair point, because Liefled's comics in the 90's had no problem with violence, but they stayed away from cursing and nudity. I guess that's changed now since the last page of the recent Bloodstrike relaunch is a splash page of a dick in a jar
Maybe get him to re-color Dark Knight Strikes Again
>>82423696
Would it be the first recolouring to actually improve on the original?
>>82420373
His writing has always been average (save DD and Year One), but the man's panneling and pacing is out of this world, I'm eager to say he's the greatest ever in terms of panel work / dynamics. He clearly gets what makes Kirby, Koike and Moebius work and mix them all up while also turning everything up to 11.
>>82423563
u win
>>82420251
>tldr, Frank Miller's artwork looks far better with bold chromatic coloring rather than what DC's colorists have been doing.
Reminds me of when they occasionally post covers that are works in progress which end up looking better than the finished product.
>>82424171
> the posts are now set to private
Thanks tumbler. Apparently people told him his posts were being too mean to the colorists who did the original work
But at least it spread pretty quickly online, saw some people like Michel Fiffe reposting
>>82420077
>>82420132
>>82420181
>>82420251
>>82421278
All of these look better recolored, but I honestly think this looks like shit no matter how you flip it >>82420095
>>82421667
Well I guess with this we can go back to calling Miller a hack who doesn't know how to draw, write, or choose colorists.
>>82424237
>>82424171
who the hell taught their artists color theory?
>>82424171
When reading Coming of the Supermen, I couldn't help but to think how bad the coloring was. Everything was overly glossy.
>>82421906
If it was obvious then the shittier versions wouldn't have been published now would they
>>82424559
Lame but probably the right move on his behalf as a professional in the industry. You don't get a job by setting fire to things.
>>82421255
>muh broken necks
>>82421348
I'm willing to blame the cancer more than anything.
>>82421951
>it isn't as obvious considering the editorial at DC doesn't do shit to fix it
I don't think they consider it something that requires fixing
>>82420132
we need more of this catwoman
>>82420879
>I was having too much fun to notice.
I don't fucking understand you people, why the fuck are you reading comics if you don't even give a shit what the book looks like?
>>82420353
Doesn't mean his quality didn't falter as he got older. Same thing happened to Howard Chaykin. His at looks terrible colored these days and at times in black and white as well. He's best suited for period pieces these days because anything set after 1959 looks like shit in his style.
>>82425888
And their sales reflect that.
The coloring does make it look better, but it's still shit.
Just stopping by to say Frank Miller sucks
Looks a lot better, he's right. Dumb decision on DC's part to play it so uniform and boring. Just like Killing Joke recolor.
>>82421278
HEY FUCK HEADS.
Alright, he deleted them because he thinks that his post, while retaining validity, does also due so at the expense of the other artist. He didn't want to insult the other coloring, but what he does want to do, is show that maybe another coloring scheme works for Miller's style.
>>82428522
>>82421667
>>82421951
Frank chose his own colorist dumb fucks.
>>82428608
I still respect the man for showing how a colorist can make or break a book but it was a good sport of him to take down the blog post. I wish that more people realized that DC isn't just one guy or one team of guys who call the shots, like seriously, every single fucking thing I see someone complaining how this is somehow Dan Didio's fault.
>>82428608
Also, for anyone who doesn't know, Harvey James is the guy who is one of the learders of the Bartkira project, not saying he has more validity than someone else, but that is what he is known for.
>>82428608
You don't have to get so heated over this, James.
>>82428685
>the Bartkira project
The what?
>>82429115
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SWt6OQ4Nl4
>>82430900
Get every second of this out of my brain cells right this instant.
It seems pointless to have this conversation here on /co/. The coloring choices for Frank Millar's newest pieces have been a pretty obvious mistake but, I feel like DC makes these decisions based on analytical data. "Comic fans" (let's be honest, most of these commentators are just narcissistic and bitter rubes who merely cling to comics out of familiarity) don't know shit about art, don't actually care about art, and aren't qualified to talk about art. When they see flat colors, regardless of how meaningful the art may be, they compare it to the comics they're familiar with and think "THIS LOOKS OLD LOL THIS COMIC OLD OR SUMTHIN??? OLD PEOPLE SUCK FUCK OLD STUFF I COULD DRAW THAT MY COUSIN COULD DRAW THAT LOL" and trying to show people that things could be better will only result in these idiot moth-men flocking to whatever light they see in the distance to snuff it out before it challenges their ideas of what's right and wrong in the comic book world.
Comic books could be so great if it weren't for the comic book community. Oh well, Miller will be dead soon and we can get back to shitty realistic renditions of capes that MUST be good because the rubes are convinced that they can't draw anything that resembles it.
>>82431734
>we can get back to shitty realistic renditions of capes that MUST be good because the rubes are convinced that they can't draw anything that resembles it.
This describes too many of the popular artists at DC and Marvel
I think Bryan hitch was the trendsetter with The Authority and Ulimtates
> page composition? nah just make it look cinematic anything else is too hard for our readers
>>82431734
/co/ is full of house-style autists. I remember Anon preferring Brad Walker over Wes Craig during Abner Lanning's GotG. I was astonished.
>>82420077
/co/ BTFO as usual. Anyone with a true eye for aesthetics and craftsmanship appreciates Miller's art where as most people just go "ewwww, why is it not polished and smooth like Mark Bagley circa 1995?" It's the same thing with people saying JRJR and Frank Quitely are bad artists, they misappropriate non-house style art for being bad and miss all the storytelling genius happening on the page.
>>82421951
>>82425117
You guys give DC way too much credit. They're in the business of making comics but that doesn't mean they are actually intelligent about comics art and making it look good.
As for the thing with Frank picking his colorists for the book I dunno. I'm at a loss there.
>>82422070
I'm not trying to say he's wrong. I just think Harvey kind of has his head up his ass if thinking this is gonna change people's opinions on Frank's work and it's not some super kept secret that digital colorists go full retard on dudes like Miller and Romita JR. I will admit I am a bit bothered by the fact that his idea of fixing some pages is just make them safe as fuck limited printed palette. It makes them easier to process but makes the page more boring as a result.
This is different from recoloring something like Bitch Planet that wants to riff off the limited printer palette. Miller wants the art to be with the times somewhat and Harvey's idea of fixing it is just make it look like it's stuck in the 80's like he can't move on.
I'd rather see someone like Matt Wilson have a crack at these pages. I feel like he would a better example of modern digital coloring without going fucking HAM on it.
>>82420631
I like the way Rellim thinks!
>>82420939
I actually prefer Bolland's more somber colours. They mesh well with his considered, realistic style of draftsmanship.
The thing is though, that shit doesn't fly for every style of art. I really, REALLY hate the way most modern comics are coloured.
>>82424901
This is a huge problem with modern digital colours. They'll hire any hack with Photoshop, a Wacom tablet and a bluffer's knowledge of pillow shading to do it.
By contrast, look at some early stuff that's digital like Spawn. The colours in that somehow still look cutting-edge due to better understanding of colour and the tech it was being applied with.
>>82420631
Oh, well, that is very fair to me, so I have to agree.
Thanks for opening my eyes, Mr. Rellim!
>>82433523
In the case of Spawn Oliff was the early adapter of digital colors. I think an unfortunate number of colorists, even really skilled ones, got fucked over when they were forced to go digital.
>>82420802
Nobody outside of /pol/ would say the story is good. But you can kinda dig it once you realize it's a propaganda pastiche.
The reason people say they like Holy Terror is because the action sequences in the beginning are fucking awesome. Completely static (mostly) B/W pages that are able to convey the force and brutality of an explosion is light years ahead of what you typically see in comics, it's amazingly well done on technical level. The story is dumb, and you kinda get the sense Frank kinda lost interest a bit once he couldn't make it a Batman book anymore but decided to finish it anyway due to the art in the beginning of the book.
>>82433663
I always got excited seeing Oliff's name in a book's lineup, it was a guarantee of awesome-looking colours.
God knows what they were using to do all this back then, probably less powerful than today's smartphones.
>>82433096
Who did the colouring in those images and which one went to print?
>>82431734
Its not just 'dumb' people who turn down minimalism just cos they think they could do it
>>82420077
oh look, one of my favorites
>it's a tumblr (writer/artist/pen tracer/colorist) thinks he can do better episode
>>82433926
Kyle Schwab
Left page went to print, right is the recolor
http://schwabco.tumblr.com/post/109683520475/i-recently-read-abhay-khoslas-review-of-kelly-sue
>>82433993
James Harvey actually does work on Big 2 comics ,he just has a tumbler. Don't let seeing the website trigger you, it just a bunch of blogs
>>82421312
Picasso ran a nice racket. He got a lot of pussy out of what was a gimmick.
>>82431734
>...don't know shit about art, don't actually care about art, and aren't qualified to talk about art. When they see flat colors, regardless of how meaningful the art may be, they compare it to the comics they're familiar with and think...
You are right. I don't give a single fuck about art. I know what makes my eyes bleed and what doesn't. That is all I care about when reading comics. I put Miller in the same category as the person doing Squirlgirl.
>>82421278
So how long before a Rich Johnson's new bleeding cool article about this with screencaps directly from /co/ goes online?
>>82434257
That says a lot about you. It says fuck all about Miller, though.
>>82421932
>t was brought to his attention that Miller chose the colorist instead of DC
Nah, they mindslave him as they always do.
Whores !
(Since his wife, he probably don't know who really choose for this job)
>>82428608
I hate how so many people in the comics industry are noodle dick weenies that pull back as soon as they think they might hurt someones feelings with their opinion.
Grow a back bone.
>His work is dynamic and, in some cases, verging on abstract. Trying to color his stuff with representational lighting and rendering is pointless
It's true though. You get the same effect when an autist on the internet draws his fetish shit in ms paint and then applies photoshop effect galore on it. All you get is a disturbing miasma.
>>82420132
>>82420095
>>82420181
Still fucking horrid. It's not stylized, Miller obviously struggles with drawing human figures and all he can do are these grotesque monstrosites.
>>82420132
>Frank is an artist who is constantly evolving
You mean devolving, you color-blind fanboy.
I wish DC would scout for some good colorists
atleast then we wouldn't have people like andrew 'shiny gradients' dalhouse
>>82436443
The last time I read an issue colored by Dalhouse, the art is an absolute eyesore.
>>82428608
fucking company drone
Am I being memed?
Is this a meme? This artwork is fucking awful. Utterly awful.
>>82420411
Wonder Woman hates necks.
>>82420613
>>82420588
I found the arguments convincing even before I noticed it was James Harvey making them. Dude has serious art chops.
>>82421275
Everyone who says shit like that deserves the retort "Yeah, fuck Gilgamesh, am I right? Cuneiform? Please."
>>82421667
>how would I feel if that was my work?
"Wow, I didn't even consider there might be problems with where I utilize my skills rather than the skills themselves. Thanks for not being a patronizing asshole who refuses to critique because it might hurt, I really learned from this."
Oh, wait, sorry. I forgot the freelance colorists at DC are all huge babies who get depressed if you don't give them their daily asspat and shield them from constructive criticism, my bad.
So what, is The Master Race some bullshit about Wondy being brainwashed by Norks?
>>82433096
>Miller wants the art to be with the times somewhat and Harvey's idea of fixing it is just make it look like it's stuck in the 80's like he can't move on.
You bring up a valid point, but still makes one wonder why Miller doesn't put more thought into who gets to color his stuff. I know it's a pleby choice, but imagine what someone like Dave Stewart could do to make Miller's art look modern yet still dynamic.
FYI same problem with current chaykin vs classic chaykin, this 3d coloring trend blows his art right out in a way the black and white or flat colors dont
>>82436443
They had Matt Wilson for a while during Azzarello's Wondy stint. He was probably one of their better color artists during that time.
>>82434526
I give any minute now.
>>82438722
I like the reference but I don't understand your point. Especially considering I prefer Higgins colors.
