So, Amadeus Cho is stated to be the seventh smartest person in the world. And is canon that Reed Richards is the most inteligent.
Who else is in like the top ten? I assume that Victor von Doom may be the 2nd or 3rd, and Tony Stark must be there also. Who else is inteligent/smart enough to be considered in the top ten? The Illuminatis? Bruce Banner?
Make your list, /co/
I was actually thinking about this recently -- Now that quite a few people are dead/not in the universe (see: Pym, Richards, Banner) who's the current list? Should Amadeus move up? Have some additional intelligent people been introduced?
Via Marvel Database:
Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic.
Henry Jonathan “Hank” Pym/Ant-Man; Giant-Man; Yellowjacket; Wasp; Goliath.
Robert Bruce Banner/Hulk.
Victor von Doom/Dr. Doom.
Anthony Edward Stark/Iron Man.
Henry Phillip Mc
How exactly is Banner over Victor Fucking Doom? What did Banner actuallly did? His transformation was an accident, and he never got to cure himself, at least until recently, after like fifty years of comics.
Jesus. I know you need a black rep, but Adam Brashear exists. Other than that, I'm super comfy with that list, although Victor and Bruce should probably switch, and the absence of Valeria is weird
Pak jerked him off into being a super scientist with a forcefield and shit when the most advanced think he built before that was a robot that wanted to suck his dick
I'm fairly sure that Otto Octavius was more renowned in radiation, Reed Richards even called him in for a consult when Susan was having complications in her pregnancy due to their cosmic radiation exposure
How the "rank" which one is smarter?
And does they take consideration that these character would technically work on different áreas?
I mean, what is even the line of work of Banner and how can you compare it with what Doom studies?
I've never understood T'Challa to be a genius-level intellect, more like a master tactician like Steve Rogers or Scott Summer. Am I missing something?
And yeah, the Doom/Pym thing is really tricky. I think, for storytelling reasons, they have to be top 3, because if Pym isn't, like, the 2nd or 3rd, it cheapens the whole "tragic genius" thing, and if Doom isn't, it cheapens the relationship with Reed, which is super important.
Maybe you're right, I gave Pym #2 because I think he's more tarnished by third place than Doom is.
Is she, though? I always saw her as a "going to be the smartest as an adult" thing, but not yet actually that smart.
And I think there's like a difference of Tier between Brashear and Tony, so it made sense to put child Valeria there.
area of expertise doesn't matter in comics/movies/tv
Beast is a biologist, yet still is treated as the overall "science" guy of the X-Men.
Same with Reed, T'Challa and Pym. they all have very specific specialities, yet are the go-to's for anything science-y.
I think Tony is the only one who gets singled out for his engineering abilities and ignored for almost everything else.
>its that faggot that says that Peter is smarter than Batman.
It's very subjective. But one thing is knowledge and other thing is intelligence. Maybe I read a book about, let's say, black holes, and now I know a lot about them. So I go to an architect and he knows shit about black holes, but he sees a situation and can instantly think of a full functional building.
Wisdom is like knowing a bunch of stuff. Inteligence is the ability yo make use of what you know. So maybe Banner knows best than no one about gamma radiation, but Tony Stark has actually proven to be able to adapt to almost everything. Therefore, Stark > Banner.
How do we feel about
>Tim Drake is smarter than Bruce
>Dick Grayson is more agile than Bruce
>Damian is a better fighter than Bruce
>Jason Todd is deader than Bruce
I like it.
oh no, I'm not saying Spidey should be that high either.
I'm just saying that Doom shouldn't be top 5. top 10 definitely, but not top 5.
Pete should be considered maybe top 20. He has potential and the ability to be top 10, but he squandered it by becoming Spider-Man.
In the comics hes interned for (and impressed) Reed Richards. Had the opportunity to work for Stark. and is generally regarded as a generic comics science wunderkind.
I know it's been part of his character basically since his inception, but I'm actually not a fan of Parker being a super-genius. Smart, sure, but it really takes away from the 'regular teen/guy' angle that Spidey works best from when he's got smarts on the levels of the world's brightest.
1. Reed Richards
2. Victor von Doom
3. Hank Pym
4. Bruce Banner
5. Tony Stark
7. Hank McCoy
8. Amadeus Cho
9. Who cares?
Peter Parker might be 9, Otto Octavius could be up there as well. I'm sure I'm missing someone.
Valeria is off the list, she's always talked about in terms of potential, I don't think she's there yet though.
Tim Drake is not smarter than Batman.
Damian is not a better fighter than Batman.
Jason Todd is not deader than Batman.
Literally the only thing there that's even remotely accurate is the line about Dick.
What is wrong with you?
>Invented time travel
>invented non pym particle shrinking/growing technology independent from pym
>top tier force field
>iron man tier armor
>invented near Pym tier AI
>all this while being hte second best wizard on earth
That sucks dick, though.
Then all the Robins are just shittier versions of Bruce. If each of them doesn't have anything to distinguish them, then they're just a waste of space. Why bother training a Robin at all? They're just going to be worse than Bruce.
>Hickman jerked off Doom
This fucking meme needs to die
>Doom was retarded at the start of the story and had to have Richards unretard him
>Doom loses almost every fight he's in in the story
>Doom becomes a little girl's bitch
>Doom gets BTFO by his own creations when he becomes """""""God""""""""
Actually read a comic and stop spouting /co/ memes
I think that's the point. He doesn't get any props for his shit.
Did you read Rage of Ultron? You should read Rage of Ultron.
I'm saying, from a story-telling perspective, the dynamic between Bruce and the Robins is kind of pallid if he's just better than all of them at literally everything.
>I'm just saying that Doom shouldn't be top 5. top 10 definitely, but not top 5.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Doom's whole thing is he's basically the eternal second best.
He's second fiddle to Reeds in brains, second fiddle to Strange in magic, second fiddle to T'Challa in kingdom.
That infinitely bruised ego is what made him an enjoyable supervillain, back when he actually was one.
How public is Valeria's intelligence, though? Enough for her to qualify for an official list like the one Amadeus gets his credentials from?
I'm almost inclined to think that Doom wouldn't be on it, either - it's not like he'd let anyone test his intelligence.
>second fiddle to T'Challa in kingdom
Is that one true, though? I always got the vibe that he was down with being less than Reed and Steven because he was still top ruler.
Have there been any particular interactions with T'Challa?
I totally remember a Black Panther tie-in where T'Challa and Storm go to Latveria. I think that first Doom send them a gift to their wedding, and then they payed him a visit.
Don't remember how that ended, tho. Not a fight, but I can't remember what Doom wanted to talk about with them.
The issue with Pym is that Pym fucks up as often as he does well, and lets face it - everyone remembers the fuck-ups, just like IRL.
Look at Ultron. He managed to make an easy-bake way to create AI. This is fucking mind-blowing. AI right out of the box.
But of course Ultron was a lunatic and so no one really thinks "Wow Pym you're a fucking genius".
He doesn't have much against T'Challa, but it's pretty much always been established that Wakanda
when it's not floodedis pretty much the Bee's Knees in terms of a countries progression.
Latveria is more stable though, given the infighting in Wakanda and Latveria's policing so I can totally be down with anyone who disagrees with me
I read a lot of comics and Hickman's FF/F4 has a fair bit of Doomwank (especially compared to the previous runs). Future Franklin tells young Franklin that all hope lies with Doom, Val makes secret pacts with Doom because he is so much better than Reed and in Secret Wars Doom becomes God-Emperor.
You are right that the amount of Doomwank is exaggerated, in fact my initial post should have been that he "jerked Valeria off even more than he did Doom"
Those two are rarely shown to actually be that intelligent. Just other characters jerking them off. Like Richards claiming that if Peter applied himself, he could match him in genius.
>not world changing levels
Peter I can sort of see, considering he made his incredibly versatile webshooters at about 15. He also managed to hack Stark's spidey-suit gift to prevent it from fucking him over during Civil War.
Pryde, well I have no fucking idea what the hell is up with that
>Future Franklin tells young Franklin that all hope lies with Doom
And that turns out to be Doom buying other characters 28 minutes of time so they can do something important while he gets fucked up by Celestials
>Val makes secret pacts with Doom because he is so much better than Reed
No that's because he actually will let her do dangerous shit and respects her intelligence, while Reed (naturally as her father) coddles and over protects her
> in Secret Wars Doom becomes God-Emperor
Not part of FF/F4, but his lackluster Avengers story, completely irrelevant
More importantly, where does Namor fit into all this?
Is there a single human alive that prefers Aquaman? I would be interested in speaking with them.
I believe the canon is:
After that its a crapshoot:
-Valeria Richards (will be #1 one day)
-The Mad Thinker
-Nadia Pym (Nu-Wasp)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense
At this point I'd shake my fist at the sky and unleash an unearthly cry of rage and pain
but I am so whacked out on painkillers I cannot remember if he was responsible for any of that.
Honestly, I love them both.
Namor for his interactions with other heroes
Aquaman for his interactions with his villains
Black Manta is one of the worst villains of all time, but he's also like a guilty pleasure. He is the 3AM McDonald's double quarter pounder of villains.
While he's not super intelligent in every comic, no one in Marvel is. Marvel intelligence is a plot device more than it is any actual display of prowess.
>Pym at 7
I can't agree with that
Pym is a friggen mindwizard
I always thought DC was too afraid to lean into Aquaman in all the ways they could.
Like, Namor has been a hero, a villain, the ruler of a powerful enemy state, anti-hero, Predator-esque stalker monster in The Depths. Aquaman seems really underdeveloped by comparison.
>Black Manta a bad villain
I'm Namor guy, I really like Black Manta. He's just a force of nature, like Bullseye or something.
He doesn't have the complexity of Doom or something, but I still think he's one of DC's best villains, if only for the simplicity.
Pym probably should be higher, but his own crazy tends to get in the way of his smarts
Reed is at conventional Reed intelligence the whole run and rarely gets any big science feats, Val and the other Future Foundation kids cure Ben (only for regular short intervals but still it's a problem that Reed's been working on since the first issues of F4).
>He's just a force of nature, like Bullseye or something.
Bullseye isn't a force of nature, he's an evil piece of shit
>And that turns out to be Doom buying other characters 28 minutes of time so they can do something important while he gets fucked up by Celestials
It's still structured as a big "wow we need Doom to do this because only Doom could do this" thing
>No that's because he actually will let her do dangerous shit and respects her intelligence, while Reed (naturally as her father) coddles and over protects her
Even if it's not wanking his intelligence it's showing how much better a mentor/partner Doom is for Val than her dad.
>Not part of FF/F4, but his lackluster Avengers story, completely irrelevant
I was talking Hickman in general and his tendency to Doom/Val wank so any Hickman Marvel work is relevant.
It's just a matter of taste. Namor is more intersting, but he's more like an edgy sea ruler. I like that Aquaman's stories are all about him being a man of two worlds, and none of them actually embraces him.
Well like I said. I don't think he's well written
his ever-changing backstory, while it's become a sign of his dickheadry now, is an example, but I adore him. There is nothing quite like a villain whose sole purpose is to fuck over a hero.
Well so is Black Manta. He butchers civilians for no reason other than that Aquaman is alive.
>Latveria is more stable though, given the infighting in Wakanda and Latveria's policing so I can totally be down with anyone who disagrees with me
Latveria has been bombed out time and time again and is generally unstable as hell.
Remember when the FF took over the country and let the USA establish a puppet government? Remember Secret War? Lucia von Bardas?
I mean, when Doom is on point as a dictator Latveria is prosperous, but personal freedoms are at a minimum.
Wakanda is canon the most ridiculously OP nation on the planet. Sure, BP has to balance his goals and ideals with those of the tribal council, and has to fight off insurrections every so often, but when talking quality of life, economy, tech, etc., Wakanda (and BP) ranks first.
Manta is rage incarnate.
Bullseye is just a typical psychopath.
Fing Fang Foom is a force of nature
That's what I thought but honestly I've never read a whole heap of BP so I didn't wanna argue over it.
I'll need to give it a go once I finish with Strange
>Latveria has been bombed out time and time again and is generally unstable as hell
Well I was considering Latveria during peace time rather than after shit's gone down. You're right that shit does tend to go down more than it should though
I guess this only makes my original argument of Wakanda > Latveria more accurate, so thanks anon
I really hate how everyone in the Marvel universe is a super ultra mega genus. It removes a lot of tension and story potential when everybody just automatically knows everything about everything.
Reed Richards is literally the only person that describes, and his stories probably end in him not being able to find a solution more often that not.
Could you be any more of a casual?
Stark only makes the top ten due to power creep and massive amounts of money.
Peter sort of does occasionally show massive amounts of intelligence.
It's almost always in response to some threat a villain presents so it's not always focused on as an intelligence feat but he is capable of making some supreme bullshit overnight armed with only his high school chemistry set and parts from radioshack.
He's improvised tech to disable electro (stronger than Magneto in powers as admitted by Magneto himself) while the rest of the world can't even stop Magneto from strolling around wherever the hell he wants.
His spider-webs in general, the tracers he "just whipped up" while Pym spent years making an equivalent, and the fact that he is remotely capable of understanding Reed's wizardry without it being dumbed down are all points in his favor.
The problem is status quo so since he never used most of his potential by the time the 90's hit he's eternally prevented from advancement and/or would hit the same wall Reed has where Marvel tries to pretend Reed can't fix ten billion problems. It's still nonsense to consider him 2nd place but he's still a wildcard that can suddenly appear out of nowhere and do top 5 bullshit.
Beast has Shi'ar tech and had to take credit for other people's work. Beast doesn't deserve to be nearly on the same tier he's presented as being on for the last 20ish years.
Control? Yes despite apperances. Magnitude. He's outright higher.
Him not doing something with all that control and power is thanks to him being retarded.
Spider-man villains tend to be obscenely powerful while being too stupid to actually do anything with their power.
We literally just finished a crisis of infinite electros surfing the multiverse. Electro is OP as shit but requires somebody smart to explain what the fuck to do.
>His spider-webs in general, the tracers he "just whipped up" while Pym spent years making an equivalent, and the fact that he is remotely capable of understanding Reed's wizardry without it being dumbed down are all points in his favor.
Yeah that was always bullshit
It seems like Spider-Man doesn't actually do anything with his inventiveness that really defines his fights besides the webs. Almost like his ability to practically apply his intelligence to his crimefighting tapped out when he was 16. Meanwhile with Reed and Stark their inventions ARE how they fight.
You're claiming that things that existed when the characters were first created are bullshit.
At that point one might as well claim everyone on the list doesn't count because the stuff they do is bullshit.
I could give you the able to be a contemporary of Richards thing but I swear that's been a thing since at least the Romita days and as such been around long enough to be considered part of his character.
Peter's Super science prowess/ranking is more of an accident than a deliberate thing.
Writers make him do something and then later somebody realizes that Peter just pulled off some grade A nonsense with chewing gum, a potato, and whatever he found in a garbage can.
In the second round spider-man generally makes a new invention to assist in the fight. The webs are the mainstays. The specific inventions for a fight tend to just be disposable to him and only now are sticking around since he has a corporate vehicle to market them.
Tony mostly just advances because our own technology advances nowadays. He was much more impressive in the early days (despite the lower technology) when he could (in a what if) make a giant robot specifically to wreck Magneto's shit that siphons off Magneto's attacks for it's own power.
It's the electromagnetic spectrum. Stuff tends to blend together there when you have the ability to manipulate it. The power sets are extremely similar but Magneto( unlike Electro) actually bothered to learn physics for several decades.
The problem with that isn't on Peter's side. It's on Pym's side since it took him years of research to make a general equivalent and he is indisputably a Super-Genius which shoves the spider-tracers automatically into Super-Genius tier.
The canon is actually:
8. Cho (literally says it all the time)
I stopped counting at Banner because at that point its all really debatable based on the comic. Its all marginal anyway. Reed as already acknowledged that he is only slightly smarter than Tony, its the same for the rest. They just have their own quirks that make each special.
So those two minor things outweigh him getting bitchmade by the evil Reeds, then needing to be saved by Reed and his dad? That's all that constitutes wank for you? You're such a nitpicking faggot
>Tim Drake is not smarter than Batman.
But he is when it comes to tech stuff.
>Damian is not a better fighter than Batman.
Obviously, he is still only a kid.
>Jason Todd is not deader than Batman.
What? Did you forget the fact that he have a bs magic sword that he can pull from his anus and guns!
Mr Terrific is the smartest motherfucker in the world because he advertises himself as number 3.
Egomaniacs don't give a shit about beating number 3. When was the last time Luthor or Sivana went after Mr Terrific? It's never happened.
Think of how much trouble Reed Richards would save if he did the same thing.
Because neither Luthor nor Sivana wants to deal with the backlash and drama of a white man beating the living shit out of a black man.