How do we save Supes?
>>84576758
Moviewise? Keep him away from Snyder. Get someone like George Miller or someone similar.
Comicwise? Don't need to. Tomasi Superman and Jurgens Action Comics are great. Triniry also looks good. (I wish Super Sons would come out though).
Cartoonwise? Give him a cartoon and for the live of god don't let CN cancel his it like they do with every DC action show now (even Batman). Justice League Action could be good but we'll have to wait and see (though even if it does turn out good, CN will just cancel it).
The Supergirl tv show is also helping a bit.
Also give him a good video game (Injustice is okay but more of a DC JL game then standalone Supes). Maybe even great some good online games or good mobile games.
>>84576758
>Remove Synder and Goyer.
>Add Smiles and Happiness.and red undies
>>84577357
He meant it from himself.
>>84577357
This. Thisthisthisthisthisthis.
A million times 'this'.
And get Platinum on the Superman game. Give them a shit ton of money for a budget but tell them it has to be unlike anything they've ever made before (but ostensibly still an action game).
And sometime down the line, if/when WB ever reboots their DCEU, make a Superman movie that's not afraid to actually be a Superman move. Make it fun and bright and actually use villains who aren't Lex Luthor and General Zod.
>>84576758
We don't save Superman, Superman saves us.
>>84577385
I could live with no trunks, if the suit were at least brightly colored.
MoS looks grey more than anything.
>>84576758
Someone needs to write a big grand Superman v Brainiac story with Super-dad fighting a totally different Brainiac in the New 52/Rebirth DC Universe IMO.
>>84577357
I agree with this anon though. Jurgens and Tomasi are kicking ass in Superman/Action comics respectively.
>>84577357
>Moviewise? Keep him away from Snyder.
keep everything away from snyder.
that luthor was the worst adaption i've even seen.
>>84577385
Also this. Give him back his trunks please, or design his suit better so that there's something more recognizable around the waist.
>>84578995
This too. Snyder sucks.
>>84579034
Please no one give him the satisfaction of a genuine response.
>>84579066
Not bait.
Dead fucking serious.
There is NOTHING wrong with giving us darker Superman movies.
Anymore than there was anything wrong with making the Nolan films after B&R.
>>84579164
What is the point of a "dark" Superman movie?
>>84579034
Seen this same comment numerous times here
Bait
>>84579164
I was referring to your first sentence of bullshit bait. Maybe you should consider not starting every post ever with insults and 'faggit xd' memes.
Yes, yes I know it's 4chan and you've gotta be edgy so you can tell all your friends in school how awesome you are. But come the fuck on dude.
People might be more friendly to you.
Also the first two Superman films weren't garbage.
I also have nothing wrong with a 'dark' superman movie. Making Kingdom Come or something similar would be fantastic.
>>84579034
>>84579164
>comment deleted
wew lad. Kill yourself
>>84576758
It's simple. We kill the Batman.
>>84579214
>Kingdom Come
Either this or 'what's so funny about truth justice and the american way' as a live action done well, and I can die happy.
>>84579164
A less cheery Superman movie can work. But for dark Superman to work, we need the bright Superman first, for contrast. Otherwise half the point of dark Superman is gone.
Also, if you do darker Superman, you need writing and directing that understands how people think, because a darker Superman movie is not going to be about blood and punches, it's going to be about *questions*. And for that, you need a director that is actually competent at writing dialogue and motivations and who doesn't think that superheroes talking in their costumes looks retarded. So you need to shoot Snyder out of a fucking cannon anyway.
>>84579189
Giving us everything we love about Superman except the insulting silliness and campy that ruins any tension or weight the events have. Treats the character like a regular character and not one who can just wave away any obsticle in his path with time travel mary sue powers.
>>84579249
No we don't there is nothing wrong with making his origin more serious and he has to struggle and strive into becoming the savior we know and love.
>>84579294
You don't seem to understand or even be willing to accept the idea that you don't need to be dark to be serious. Makes it impossible to debate this in good faith with you.
>>84579315
Fair point.
I want it to be serious not nessicarly dark.
Honestly MOS I wouldn't really consider that dark.
I finally sat down and read Superman: Secret Origin today. Maybe my trade is only the first five issues or something because I thought it was way longer.
Anyway just do that. Minus the Legion chapter for time, but yeah. Do that.
>>84579334
Your definition of "serious" is kind of myopic. Secret Origins was serious. Birthright was serious. DCAU was serious. Hell even All Star was serious. Lots of Superman stories are serious without remotely approaching what Snyder did.
Seriousness comes from genuineness, not tone or even from an absence of what you define as "camp".
>>84576758
They brought him back, so there's no need.
>>84577357
>Moviewise? Keep him away from Snyder.
This.
>>84579363
I care about a serious tone. Not a dark or depressing tone but a serious one for much of the time.
It boils down to I do not want any part of it to look or feel silly. Above all else.
>>84579334
MoS had tone problems, even if took the neck snap out. The tornado ON TOP of Jonathan's 'maybe' is it's own problem; the fact that an advanced civilization couldn't come to Earth, take Clark and re-create Krypton in a more hospitable place (or wouldn't have done so without feeling any absolute need for the codex, etc.).
The film had nice touches, but it's problems weren't darkness per se, except for how they washed the color out of most everything.
The suit situation is more a WB issue than anything else, which is why Brandon Routh's boots and cape were more maroon than red, and why Harley isn't in her cartoon outfit, and none of Suicide Squad will be in anything like that. I would except costumes similar to what the CW/Berlantiverse has been giving us in anything live action related to DC.
But this is just as true for Marvel - sure Captain got some costumes similar to the books, as did Thor, but no one is really in something absurd the way Scarlett Witch is often shown in comics or Hawkeye, as just two examples. Someone pure CGI like Groot doesn't count. When DC gets around to doing say Darkseid, you can bet those will also be CGI in that same vein.
>>84579394
next you'll be saying that you don't want them talking in costume.
I can see through your bs, synder.
Remove his ability to always be "as strong as he needs to be"
>>84579401
Nothing whatsoever wrong with the 'maybe' line, he spit it out in desperation to get his point across that their are more lives at stake then just the kids or people right in front of us.
Their is no suit situation.
The MOS suit could have been a little more clearly blue but otherwise is perfection IMO.
>>84579412
but doing that is retarded.
The point isn't how many bad guys he can beat up. If you haven't realised that yet, you need to lurk more.
>>84579410
No that was a retarded idea I will agree.
But as long as the suits don't look silly which they don't currently then it's all good.
>>84579440
you know, I don't think you've actually realised yet that these are COMIC BOOK MOVIES
They're supposed to be a little silly.
How does no one understand when Pa Kent said the "maybe" he clearly didn't believe it.
>>84579394
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16iig4_john-cleese-explains-the-difference-between-serious-and-solemn_fun
Seriousness and solemnity are often confused for each other but there are differences you should really learn to appreciate. What Snyder's done is attempted the latter to such an extreme that it wraps around into Bathos. Which is a bad thing as it's not intentional.
>>84579214
>Also the first two Superman films weren't garbage.
Yes they were. This is coming from someone who isn't American though, and doesn't nostalgise the old west.
But the Donner Superman films are fucking awful.
The problem with Super is that his values are not contemporary enough or in phase with today's society.
He doesn't appeal to the people because no one is inspired by him. Being the best to others people, putting the happiness of your fellow before yours is not in the customs nowadays.
Today's behavior is being as selfish, violent and superficial as you can. People want movies with fights, explosions and CGI.
They don't care about super heroes saving people, they want fights.
>>84579556
93 and 89% or RT respectively. They're good films. You're not in the majority, so just accept it.
..and 27% for BvS
I can almost guaran-fucking-tee it that you're one of the faggots who think its some sort of masterpiece.
>>84579558
so that's why MoS and BvS did so well.
>>84579558
Not really accurate.
Mos is my 2nd favorite movie.
And I want him saving people for the sake of saving people, I want him to be kind and inspiring.
But I want the fights and epic sci-fi also along with a serious tone.
They are not incompatible.
>>84579454
I'm not saying they can't be "silly" but the don't have to be.
They're modern mythology and if we look at Ancient mythology we find silly tales and tales with incredibly depth.
Guess which ones are more well received...
>>84579558
Johns managed to make note of this and it works surprisingly well to show the transformative effect Superman has in SO.
>>84577385
Agreed 100%Make his boots red again too
>>84579580
"epic scifi" is not an absence of camp or the presence of your version of "seriousness". Not in our reality where a one of the biggest epic sci fi franchises stars a little green elf puppet.
>>84577357
>Get someone like George Miller or someone similar.
You think so?
>“I think it’s been said many times before: he’s potentially a very boring character because he has no faults," Miller told IGN. "So you really have to find his demons really to get an internal conflict going. You’ve really got to do that. Whether that’s by an external agency or something deep inside himself. You need that conflicted character."
>“That’s what made the Greek gods so great. I mean they were jealous, vengeful, hubristic. They had all these things going for them. I think that’s why Batman’s such an interesting character because he’s human, so he’s just like us. He’s relatable, rather than someone who’s just perfect.”
>>84579572
I know, I should totally adhere to group think instead of making my own opinion. Especially about something which is subjective.
Like, I can understand (and hinted at it in my previous post) that Americans have a different view on Superman than non-Americans.
And while I'm not 100% down with Snyder's Superman I'm more for it than Donner's Superman.
I will say for both of them that they don't fall into the trap of adding Irony when it isn't needed. I'm just more for Snyder's philosophical view rather than Donner's vanny and campy view.
Like, if you enjoy Donner's Superman films more power too you. I don't though. I don't like his Lex, I don't like his Lois, I don't like his Supes. I do like his Zod though (but everyone likes his Zod).
>>84576758
by doing something good every day.
>>84579615
I think it's very unfortunate that he feels this way.
I do think he'd be great on a JL movie or even a New Gods movie though.
>>84579581
Honestly that whole "modern mythology" thing is the source of the Snyderverse's problems. He's removed a great deal of the humanity of the characters in order to make them bombastic mythic figures and vessels for narrative ideals rather than fully developed people.
>>84579622
first you say they are garbage, as a statement
then you say this
Are you bi-polar? Or just retarded?
>>84579622
Okay just for my edification can you define "camp"? Because between the way you use these words and the fact that by your own admission you're not American I'm wondering if maybe there's some lost in translation going on here.
>>84579615
>>“I think it’s been said many times before: he’s potentially a very boring character because he has no faults," Miller told IGN. "So you really have to find his demons really to get an internal conflict going. You’ve really got to do that. Whether that’s by an external agency or something deep inside himself. You need that conflicted character."
>>“That’s what made the Greek gods so great. I mean they were jealous, vengeful, hubristic. They had all these things going for them. I think that’s why Batman’s such an interesting character because he’s human, so he’s just like us. He’s relatable, rather than someone who’s just perfect.”
Thanks for making me even sadder about the fact that we aren't seeing George Miller's Justice League.
>>84579622
oh yeah, btw, as the guy you've been replying to most of the time, I also am not american
>>84579612
Yoda's puppet isn't a 10th as silly or garish as the Trunks are.
>>84579646
My view on garbage doesn't mean I don't understand that some people like eating garbage.
Are you autistic? Are you one of those people who whinges about people liking things you don't like?
Art is, and always will be, a subjective medium. I personally find Donner's shit terrible, but I do actually understand that there are people I respect who like Donner's shit.
>Your kink is not my kink and that's okay.
>>84579648
Lex Luthor in Superman the Movie and his bumbling sidekick is what I mean by camp.
Also, Reeve's portrayal as Clark being this really timid individual too.
English is my first language, it isn't "lost in translation" as far as language is concerned, but could be as far as views of camp are concerned (though that could also be a cultural thing).
>>84579646
Not the same person.
The non American and I the guy who originally called them garbage are not the same anon.
>>84579676
>ewoks, gungans
you can go fuck right off
>>84579631
And yet this Clark is much more failable, conflicted and prone to human rage and spite then Reeves was.
>>84579686
>My view on garbage doesn't mean I don't understand that some people like eating garbage.
>Are you autistic? Are you one of those people who whinges about people liking things you don't like?
>Art is, and always will be, a subjective medium. I personally find Donner's shit terrible, but I do actually understand that there are people I respect who like Donner's shit.
>>Your kink is not my kink and that's okay.
Sure, alright. But that doesn't make it garbage.
You're either baiting or have your head stuck so far up your own ass it's about to re-enter again.
>>84579712
>Sure, alright. But that doesn't make it garbage.
In my view in makes it garbage. I also view The Dark Knight Rises as garbage, and Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.
You probably view Batman v Superman as garbage, I don't. So maybe your head is so far up your own ass it's about to re-enter?
Or one could view the fact that people have differing opinions as something that happens and is natural and not be autistic about things?
>>84579577
They did good in terms of money. But people saying than Superman is too strong shows what they give a shit about.
Powers.
The hero has to have "balanced" powers and have to fight. That's it. People want the same shit over and over. Superman isn't about power levels or fighting.
An inspirational movie won't work because people don't care, everyone thinks they are so great themselves.
>>84579580
Yeah but you are not everyone. You are a minority who care or like the character
>>84579598
SO?
Anyways they have to break the "Superman is OP" meme and makes him more contemporary but that would kill the personality of the character.
>>84579751
>In my view in makes it garbage.
I don't think any of them are garbage because you happen to hold them in a different opinion than I do. That would be dumb. Which is probably why you're doing it.
I think BvS is garbage because it really fucking is.
Just accept it, anon. It's not a masterpiece sent down from heaven itself.
It's overloaded with unnecessary shit, poor cinematography, a plot that barely makes sense upon third viewing and poorly cast characters that aren't even close to what they are supposed to be.
It is a bad film. But that doesn't mean you can't like it.
>>84579783
>I don't think any of them are garbage because you happen to hold them in a different opinion than I do. That would be dumb. Which is probably why you're doing it.
>I think BvS is garbage because it really fucking is.
Autism: the post, staring anon!
>>84579783
Not him but the cinematography is gorgeous.
The plot makes perfect fucking sense and I went in searching for plot holes.
All the characters are cast well except Jesse.
Batman was absolutely fucking perfect.
>TIL: There are people out there that legitimately think BvS was good
>>84579808
>The plot makes perfect fucking sense
>it's THIS thread again
>>84579783
>I think BvS is garbage because it really fucking is.
>It's overloaded with unnecessary shit, poor cinematography, a plot that barely makes sense upon third viewing and poorly cast characters that aren't even close to what they are supposed to be.
So you're saying that a movie, based on comics (a visual medium) shouldn't be visual? Also, you're saying that their interpretation of characters with over 70 years of differing and conflicting interpretations of characters is wrong because why?
Also, if the plot doesn't make sense you're possibly clinically retarded, and clearly don't read comics as it's the most commonly used story in crossover superhero comics ever. Let me explain it to you.
>The heroes meet.
>They have a misunderstanding
>They fight
>The heroes realise that there's more than unities them than divides them
>They team up and take out the badguy
What a hard fucking concept to understand!
>>84579808
>Batman was absolutely fucking perfect.
We can be friends IRL <3
>>84579239
Superman vs the Elite is probably the best Superman movie so far. It should have been live-action and two hours long.
>>84579753
SO = Secret Origin
>>84579249
Anything on Earth is a good reason for shooting Snyder out of a cannon.
>>84579845
That is the skeleton of the plot which is really easy to understand. In reality its more like:
>Dream Sequence
>Flashback
>Dream sequence inside a dream sequence that serves as Batman's justification
>Heroes Meet
>They have a misunderstanding
>Flashback
>They fight
>The heroes realise that there's more than unities them than divides them
>Justice League "cameos"
>They team up and take out the badguy
>>84579704
Not really. After all, literally the entire arc in Superman 2 was Clark giving in to his human desires and not wanting to be Superman anymore.
And there's more to humanity than its flaws. Something Snyder doesn't seem to grasp because he's one of those guys that conflates cynicism and darkness with maturity.
>>84579294
So in other words, Superman should be no fun, a whiny emo and suck at being super. We kind of already got that and it was terrible.
>>84579902
You should probably check out >>84579712
As it still applies.
I don't normally like using the "you're too stupid to understand" meme, but you're literally too stupid/autistic if the flashbacks and dream sequences made your head hurt.
>>84579686
>Lex Luthor in Superman the Movie and his bumbling sidekick is what I mean by camp.
That's not really a definition. Maybe it's an example but even then it requires me to see it as you do.
>Also, Reeve's portrayal as Clark being this really timid individual too.
That's completely unrelated to camp as a concept to the point that you're making a serious mental leap to try and make it evidence of such. Putting that aside, do you maybe just not get what Superman is as a mythos?
Make a Hitman movie
Following my post >>84579753
What they could do is create faults at the character. Like big confidence issues, he thinks that he's should be able to always do more. Struggling with social issues as Clark Kent.
Relatable shit as a character.
>>84579923
I was, in fact pointing out examples of camp issues I have with Superman: the Movie.
If you want to pretend those things aren't camp and view it with rose-tinted glasses that's on you. But the main reason why Superman did well in its day was because of special effects, and that's fucking all.
The story and characterisation of that movie aren't good, but you were six when you first saw it and view it with nostalgia. And the RT/critics you'll point too viewed in with late 70s views of special effects.
They'd also tell you Transformers 3 was a great movie too, because they don't realise that special effects don't make a movie.
>>84579631
Not to mention that Snyder seems like a guy who repeats big words he hears to sound smart without really understanding them.
"Here's your latte, Mister Snyder--""
"INCONCEIVABLE!"
>>84579845
Heroes fighting when they first meet tends to be a cliche of Marvel comics. So much for Snyder's desperate desire to not be "like Marvel". Besides, the fight doesn't consume everything up to the climax, because the writer/director wants to jerk off to an overrated Elseworlds story.
>>84579921
Not even the same guy. The plot wasn't a big or complicated problem for me aside from Lex's motivations or the Dreams, really. I'm just saying you can't simplify the plot to that degree
Its everything else in the film that sucks
>>84579902
Not to mention the real story behind the Knightmare sequence. It was a holdover from the David Goyer drafts, which would have made a very different movie, relating to a subplot about Apokoliptian raids in a Middle Eastern country, with Steppenwolf in a cameo.
Chris Terrio's revisions replaced the entire subplot with the scene of Lex and the thing about the three Marthaboxes, but Snyder wanted desperately to keep the fight scene because "it's a kewl image dudebros", so they shoehorned it into a dream sequence and replaced Steppenwolf with evil Superman.
>>84579989
>Heroes fighting when they first meet tends to be a cliche of Marvel comics.
I don't read comics: The post by Anon!
Also, the movie isn't called "World's Finest" or "Batman & Superman" it's called Batman v Superman. The fight between Batman and Superman is literally the beginning of the third act. It's there for a reason.
>>84580021
>relating to a subplot about Apokoliptian raids in a Middle Eastern country, with Steppenwolf in a cameo.
I hate to say it, but this legitimately could've been really cool and would've been better than the shitty Knightmare sequence we got. Also would've been a really cool lead-in into JL.
>>84579260
But what you're describing is Byrne Man of Steel/Birthright and neither were dark.
I'm not sure you know a lot about Superman...
>>84580214
>I'm not sure you know a lot about Superman...
I think he's only really familiar with Donner Superman.
Because what he's doing is essentially setting up a false dichotomy, pretending like you can either have Snyder's Superman or the campy Donner version where there's literally a ton of different ways you can write Superman. And hell, if anything, Snyder's version is still probably less true because it's like he pulled from the most cynical versions of the character and ONLY the most cynical versions to cull together his personal 'vision' or take on things.
>>84576758
His best stories are from the last 20 years. Kingdom Come, Birthright, All Star Superman and Red Son.
That's pretty good, don't worry about him going the way of the mouse.
