Why do you guys hate this? I'm really digging it so far, the best thing Bendis has written in years! And the art is fantastic.Not a shill, just wondering why you guys seem to hate it
>>84527772
It's boring and predictable.
>>84527772
It's alright. It certainly isn't the art anyone dislikes, Marquez is fantastic. The story really isn't bad thus far, it just hasn't really done anything beyond a boring event comic meant to have consequences. Plus as usual the ending is largely spoiled. Also it's Bendis so a significant amount of people will hate it on principle. I like it though, mostly because of the art.
>>84527772
It's just a bunch of cheap deaths strung together for shock writing
>>84527772
its a rip off of minority report and some of the charcters are not even being them selfs take Captain America (Steve) for example.
and >>84528083
said
>Characters acting out of character
>ignoring the existance of precogs and actual time travellers
>treating seeing the future as something new for 616
>especially egregious as bendis himself stranded the 60s era X-men in the future
>bendis speak
>contrived conflict
>both sides going full retard for the sake of creating a fight
>NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME
>>84528056
When you say somebody hates something or someone "on priciple", there actually has to be principles involved in why they hate them.
Sheeple following the meme crowd and racists that foam at the mouth at the sight of a black character don't count.
>Bendis' actual writing still sucks monkey dick
>a bunch of cheap deaths
>fucking flashback in #3
>anti hulk arrow
>Inhuman shilling
>it's bendis so tons of people are OOC
>Carol shilling
>forced hero vs hero shit
>apparently editorial not telling writers what the fuck is happening despite said writers having books with crucial CW2 characters in them
The event being rushed and there not being any build up seems to be causing most of the problems other than Bendis just being Bendis. Like some of the arguments could be more natural and not forced had they been a thing done before the event, not Ewing hastily writing in shit in the tie ins. All the people dying in 3 issues, the Clint/Bruce thing, etc.
And we haven't gotten to the actual side picking yet and fighting so that'll be a blast.
>>84528167
>>84528242
I give you that future vision isn't new to Marvel, but who specifically is acting out of character?
>>84528247
Yeah, I guess you're right.
>>84527772
>Not a shill
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
Reminder that this is supposed to drag out until November.
>>84527772
Shit forced story. Tony complaning about someone else acting upon their version of the future literally hurts me. Also some of the best from bends is still shit.
>>84527772
It's boring, lazy, derivative, and interrupts/screws over a number of Marvel's few good books.
>>84528247
Fuck off bendis. You have earned the hate.
>>84528360
The futurist Tony statk bit ching about how acting on the future you see is wrong because it hasn't happened yet. Considering that shit is how he brought about the first civil war.
>>84528474
And what about the business with Agatha Harkness's pre-cog?
How does that impact Tony, Vision, Sam, Wanda's thinking?
>>84528242
- the characters are behaving in character, you just don't (or won't) understand their motives.
- they are mentioned in the books, as is the minutiae of multiple timelines, parallel realities, and the constant precog foil of accuracy in probability. READ.
- AGAIN, it's mentioned in the fucking books you didn't read.
- and now you're trying to link an irrelevant storyline for no damned reason. Batman timetravelled once too, you forgot to mention that!
- words! How horrible! You didn't buy a picture book to read!
- ... if this crap is an actual complaint of yours then you're developmentally disabled.
- see previous answer.
- Pretty much, haven't you noticed yet? Marvel actually makes storylines that matter.
>>84528474
that's honestly the least of my complaints,
I just wish Bendis would stop fucking around and turn subtext into text by having Tony remind Carol 'last time we did this song and dance, people were dying on the street and we started throwing powerless people into space Guantanamo. The only reason I can even live with myself is because I'm just a backup mind who didn't live through it first hand. For the love of god don't make the same mistakes'
>>84528543
>Marvel actually makes storylines that matter.
This made it too obvious. You had my johnnies in a jumble for a minute there though.9
The editorial isn't doing a good job in keeping the timeline of events in check and presentable to the audience.
I mean, when they visit Hulk? When Rhodey funeral happens? How much time passes?
If you read just the main book of the event, you get the impression that everything is happening in a very small frame of time. Just read Civil War II #2 and it's like the heroes don't lose time to see the hulk, but this is not true. Rhodey funeral happens somewhere in the middle of all that.
It's just confusing the way it's presented.
>>84527807
Why are you reading cape comics expecting something unpredictable? Cape comics have this way of writing that makes any event, no matter how cool it sounds on paper, seem exactly as lame as every other thing that 'happened' (does something really happen if nothing changes afterward?).
>>84529153
Final Crisis
>>84527772
It's too black and white. Carol is way too unlikeable and stupid to make readers sympathize with her side.
>>84527772
It's a half-assed event made to mooch off a movie's success full of stupid deaths, stupid characterizations, and forced conflict. And worse, it's written by Bendis.
>>84529186
I disagree, from what little I read I don't really agree with Tony because all Carols been doing is taking down criminals. Her only misstep wasn't even really her fault, it was fucking Clint. And that's retarded too
>Last week Hulk asked me to kill him if he Hulked out and I was super on board.
>>84529161
Final Crisis what? Final Crisis was unpredictable, or final crisis sounded cool on paper before you read it and realize it that if two or three words were changed the dialogue would be identical to the last 5 events? I haven't read it so I'm honestly asking here.
>>84528543
>- the characters are behaving in character, you just don't (or won't) understand their motives.
The first thing you said and I can already tell this is baitarino.
>>84530026
It's a post responding to obvious bait.
You're either an idiot or a shitposter to not recognize that.
I just read the fcbd edition and I have a question.
I don't read much marvel but is she hulk far less powerful then hulk because from what little I know of him he would not be left barely breathing by that missile.
Also holy shit that was retarded does war machine apparently not know how to avoid crashing into thrown allies for that matter is he not expirenced enough he should have been able to stop himself from firing when he saw he was going to crash.
I suppose it's possible he already fired and it's just slow to take off.
>>84530118
>bait
get off 4chan bendis
>>84527772
The premise is stupid.
Iron Man and the rest of the people on his are wrong because they're idiots who refuse to even consider the possibility of using precognition to save lives because MUH RHODEY and uses buzzwords like "profiling" and saying stupid shit like "We have to let the future take its natural course even if it means Thanos kills a bunch of people". The tie-ins can be even worse
>What? The leader of a Canadian smuggling ring was arrested for stealing a tank and driving it all around town? THAT'S LIKE STOP AND FRISK, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS GONNA DO WITH THAT TANK
Carol has so far done nothing morally dubious, we haven't seen any actual pre-crime Minority Report arrests. Hawkeye acted entirely on his own.
>>84528543
Hi Brian.
>>84527772
I don't hate it but something really seems off. I mean Bruce Banner died and I didn't feel anything. It just sort of happened. I think some of the characters are acting retarded and while I'm not an X-fag it bothers me that none of the other heroes care about their genocide
>>84527772
Is it complete? I'll go read it if it is
>>84530684
I get the feeling from the previous issue that they writer wasent happy with having to do this tie in.
>>84527772
Because it's an event where one group of heroes fights another group of heroes.
Name a major Marvel event that wasn't that in the last ten goddamn years, I fucking dare you.
Also, it's just shoddily written, and a clear cash-in for the movie.
>>84530627
She-Hulk is much less powerful than her cousin, but she's still up there.
That the missile put her down is absolutely retarded, and when this was pointed out to Bendis his response was "well obviously War Machine brought his special Thanos-fighting missles."
So Tony can make compact, easy-to-use explosives powerful to kill She-Hulk with a single blast, but it never came up and in fact has still not come up in-universe.
>>84527772
The writing is literally at the same level of /co/ shitposting
>>84530627
She-Hulk is weaker that Hulk (but then again, who isn't) but no missile should've kill her. She has healing factor, it's dumb for her to be in coma.
>let's force the writers on our teenage hero's to speed up and fuck over the character development they have had planed just so we can have something interesting in our shitty event.
>>84530741
And we do it for free!
>Spider-Man, Kamala, and Captain Marvel finish eachother's sentences
>>84530741
Do tie ins count or is all this retardation from the main line.
>>84530764
The good books often suffer the most.
Shame more writers don't do the Ewing thing, planning the story around the impending forced tie-ins from the get-go.
>>84530785
The terrible race politics come from tie-ins.
Is it me, or does Marvel feel like it's being written by teenagers, for teenagers
>>84530828
Teenagers would write fuckload of cool FEATS, right? This looks like it's written to kick me in stomach.
>>84530807
Then tick off Changing sides. Nightcrawler went over to Magneto
>>84530828
Teenagers have no interest in social politics. Hipsters and college kids do. What we have here is old jewish men channeling their inner hipsters and writing about their extremist left views.
>>84530839
I don't know, something about it feels like pandering. The characters all speak in the same "we're just casual, you know, hanging out" kind of manner, everyone has to quip and make some kind of reference to the internet.
It feels weird.
>>84530828
It's being written by adults who have stagnated since their teens, for themselves. It's the only way any of this makes any sense, cause other wise who the fuck is it for? who is the target audience? coma patients? people too disabled to tell whoevers showing it to them to fuck off?
This thread is as good as any other marvel civil war thened one, so I''ll ask.
I've just heard fron soneone that said someone read on thw internet that Mockingbird solo is going to deal with the issue of the killing of Banner, the issue about tge ghost roder and the divorce, and that tge writter is going to shit on Clint. Is this true? Does anyone know anithing? And didn't they already cover the deal of it (sans Banner murder) in the H/M run a few years ago?
>>84530849
Is the X-Men mini even really related much the Tony/Carol conflict?
>>84530860
That's just how Bendis writes.
He got progressively lazier over the years and now everyone is a smug, hip asshole.
>>84529886
her team collab that got all this shit started was definetely her fault. who the fuck brings rhodey, jen, and outside the ultimates a bunch of breakables to a thanos fight?
>>84530854
teenagers don't have any interest in politics cause they already know all of it. they don't mind explaining it for us though.
>>84530849
And Psylocke to EXM.Lamest mutant 2016.
I don't think rhody understands what terrorism is.
>>84530879
The Mockingbird solo is not worth your time or attention.
Do not let it trouble you further.
>>84530684
>we haven't seen any actual pre-crime Minority Report arrests
It's funny how in Civil War II: Kingpin, Wilson is making a speech about a fascist nightmarish dystopia where people are arrested before they do anything, only for Jigsaw to point out that he's talking to a room full of people that are already criminals. The only people seen arrested in the issue were the Owl and Madame Masque, who should already be in prison anyway.
>>84530898
"Latveria is under united states protection until a preliminary democratic government can be implemented!"
Jesus fucking christ, where do these writers get their ideas?
Time Magazine circa 2004?
>>84530860
That's just Bendis. Everyone's dudebro with each other, hanging out and having jolly good time. Then you blink and you see half of New York is in ruins and corpses of superheroes are everywhere.
>>84530883
>Is the X-Men mini even really related much the Tony/Carol conflict?
Magneto attacked some muggas in Dubai or wherever, Terrigen Cloud appears and starts killing everyone, wild Storm and her EXM appear, save them, tell them about Homer, Magneto decides Homer has to die.
>>84530888
It was her boyfriend (who was just around at the time) and the bulk of her two teams.
And it's not like they don't all constantly leap at this sort of thing anyway.
>>84530898
Is he supposed to come off as a dangerous asshole?
>>84530900
I'm afraid of it if it could affect future relationships and portrayals in actual good runs.
>>84530927
if shes supposed to be a leader, then she needs to be aware of what her squads are capable of. letting anyone other than you biggest hitters go up against the mad titan is asking for corpses.
>>84530940
No worries.
Continuity and characterization means nothing to Marvel anymore.
In a year it won't even mattered in-universe than Hawkeye killed Hulk.
>>84530927
>Is he supposed to come off as a dangerous asshole?
Well apart from not understanding the difrence between terrorism and regular old war he doesent seem to bad
>>84530959
I... I hope so. Thank you for the support, anon.
>>84530959
I hope so because that was completely out of character
>>84530959
pretty sure it won't matter by October
>>84530975
He just seems pretty eager to kill a bunch of people who clearly have no idea what he just said.
>>84530995
Exactly!
>>84528242
>Characters acting out of character
>- the characters are behaving in character, you just don't (or won't) understand their motives.
They are, just starting with the core conflict. Tony and Carol used to be tight, to the point that they were nearly shipbait. Moreover, Tony's wailing over 'muh best friend iz ded' completely whitewashes over the fact that even if Ulysses was found to be only -kinda- accurate, Rhodes likely still would have gone, IF NOT TONY HIMSELF. The series is acting like death is an unexpected part of the superhero gig.
>and the constant precog foil of accuracy in probability. READ.
They've done a truly crap job of delving into this, and they did an especially crap job of defining Ulysses' power set. When Tony kidnapped him, he defined his abilities as "absorbing data to make detailed predictions". What data could he possibly have absorbed to predict two extra-terrestrial events? And as of the current issue, he's clearly NOT infallible, as it's hard to Hulk out when you're dead. As to multiple timelines and time travelers, Marvel's take on that is already fucked enough.
>especially egregious as bendis himself stranded the 60s era X-men in the future
>- and now you're trying to link an irrelevant storyline for no damned reason.
Goes back to the crappily defined power set. Assuming the O5 actually DO go back, they could negate every one of his predictions.
>bendis speak
>- words! How horrible! You didn't buy a picture book to read!
He hasn't been egregiously bad here. There's been some overwrought speechifying, but it's an event, that happens.
>NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME
>- Pretty much, haven't you noticed yet? Marvel actually makes storylines that matter.
Bullshit. They killed Rhodes and Banner because those two haven't had high-profile deaths yet. I guarantee you that both of them will be alive and kicking by the time their movie counterparts are on the big screen again. Same with Tony Stark as Iron Man.
>>84530888
>who the brings a bunch of breakables to a thanos fight?
The Avengers
>>84530959
Fuck off with that shit you're pushing.
There's a whole fanbase of Marvel "characterfags" that show up on /co/ because their characters are the same people they know and love.
Did you just not notice that?
They don't even say "Punisher" anymore because "Frank" is the character. "Frank" has always been the character.
"Kamala", Scott", "Laura", "Spock", and "Tony" himself.
Wanna say something about "Bruce"? About how that character hasn't stayed true? Go on.
>>84531112
What in God's holy name are you blathering about?
>>84531112
What? Did I miss a piece of text in my browser? I don't get the link between your reply and his.
Those are not giants, my lord.
My biggest issue with CW2 so far is that it's done fuck-all with a potentially interesting premise. In three issues, what we've had so far is Tony going "Muh Rhodey" and "Precogs, how do they work", Carol going "It's so hard being right, why is Tony being a dick", and random shock deaths. There's been virtually nothing about how this kind of ability could be exploited. The Inhumans are barely surviving in a crashed city-ship in the Hudson. Maybe they'd like to use Ulysses to manipulate some stocks, create some political favor by offering info from his visions? Or instead of exploitation, how about sheer panic? What happens if the world finds out Inhumans can (semi)accurately predict the future? Or Americans? Or the lunatic, go everywhere and shoot everything Avenger crowd?
Rhodes dying sucks, but it's being written like no hero ever died before in the MCU. And nobody gives two shits about someone shooting Bruce Banner - he's been portrayed as suicidal for years. Realistically, nobody's going to shed many tears over assisted suicide. So far, this isn't a civil war, it's a superhero snit.
>>84528242
>Tony kidnaps a kid he could have tested before without bringing all the heroes down on him
>tit missile
>throwaway thanos and celestials so heroes can fight each other again
>Ewing has to fix all of Bendis's continuity errors
>>84531208
They still haven't gotten to the second act disaster, the instigating factor that polarizes everyone into a place where it's immoral to not take a stand. The moral outrage part.
When that happens you'll see someone (Parker last time) switch sides in a very big way. And with an explaination that will fall on deaf ears.
The whole Tony argument so far has been that we don't know what we're dealing with. At the very end of #3 he finds out what that is, odds are that single fact will be a gamechanger.
And let's not forget that by the end of this story Ulysses' prophecies will never be used to fight crime ever again.
>>84527772
How exactly is what Ulysses does "profiling"?
How exactly does one "profile" a future where a Celestial Destructor (a being nobody ever knew about and still don't) and Thanos are going to attack? That has nothing to do with racial biases or social media or whatever.
>>84530699
I think it feels like Fear Itself, where they had VERY IMPORTANT MOMENTS that didn't feel important. Like when Bucky died, it didn't have any impact. Or even when Captain America lifted Thor's hammer. For some reason it lacked the weight of prior times when Cap himself or other people lifted the hammer.
>>84531326
Spencer had to do a tie-in and needed to find some way to make it lazily political.
>>84531343
Except Bendis has Tony say almost the exact same thing in Miles Morales' book
>let's go stop the banner from hulking out
>But instead of talking to him inside while we have everybody outside ready to fight him let's take him outside so he can see all the guns trained on him.
Isent that going to make him far more likely to hulk out.
>>84531208
You know, I think that's the biggest, biggest problem with this. It's supposed to feel important yet doesn't. At all.
And worse is that a lot of this we've seen before and better. We've seen precog mutants. We've seen hero vs hero in AvX and Civil War, hell we've seen Iron Man doing dubious things. We've seen that Hulk doesn't kill easily no matter how many times they do it. We've seen someone replace Iron Man before (James Rhodes). We've seen a minority hero replace a longtime hero (Rhodes replacing Tony, Miles, replacing Ultimate Peter, Monica taking on the name Captain Marvel, etc) We've seen a villain replace a hero before.
It's not that they can't do any of these again, it's that Civil War 2 doesn't seem like it's bringing anything new to the table.
>>84531365
This is great if you read Miles' "is it?" as a "are you fucking serious with this shit" rather than a legitimate question.
Of all the ways to play this you're really going with profiling. I guess it's "original" atleast.
If I was banner Hawkeye is one of the last people I would ask I'm honestly surprised he did it.
Oh wait bendis doesn't care about prior characterisation
>>84531326
The way Tony describes it IS profiling in a way, the person with that ability would statistically discover that every time the Hulk goes quiet because he supposedly has been depowered that he reactivates X days later. That there is a % probability that he will kill someone because his reactivation outbursts don't follow his standard non-lethal actions. He could then analyze the past actions of Banner and realize that subconsciously the Hulk gets even angrier at things that it fears, so it would attack Hawkeye first and lethally because Hawkeye has something that can harm it.
The issue is that A this string of logic requires either almost meta omniscient levels access to character's actions and information, and also requires that the profiler has glaring holes in his knowledge such as recent interactions with Tony Stark and the fact that he has actually been truly depowered.
Finally, Ulysses power is NOT what Tony describes because A: It would not allow him to detect extraterrestrial events like Thanos or Celestial weaponry being used, and B: It would not allow for such precise calculations of such events down to the minute.
Ulysses either has true future seeing power, or he has a probability and profiling ability combined with a very, VERY shitty extra sense similar to Spiderman's spider sense but more details but almost random in what it chooses to feed into his subconscious.
>>84531423
This. It's not just profiling, it's PURE profiling. He's not showing any inherent biases in his predictions so far. He's not a police officer looking at a group of black kids hanging out and saying "Shit, they're up to something", he's the police officer looking at a guy on the sidewalk looking around while hanging next to the deserted alley and saying "Hm, something's likely to go down here". There could be interesting stories there, but... we're not gonna get them.
>Ulysses power is NOT what Tony describes because A: It would not allow him to detect extraterrestrial events like Thanos or Celestial weaponry being used, and B: It would not allow for such precise calculations of such events down to the minute.
Yeah, so far, this has been REALLY poorly handled.
>>84527772
I wouldn't really say I hate it, I'm just really not impressed with it. And if I was reading this or something like this before /co/ story times and I felt the need to pick up titles I don't normally read anyway to get a better understanding of this story. I'd really feel like I wasted money.
>>84530684
Worst part is that Kamala's sister-in-law doesn't know anything about Ulysses or his predictions, so why the hell is she bringing it up?
>>84531365
>The future hasn't happened. How can you see it?
Well Tony, there's this thing called "time travel". I don't know if you've heard about it before.
>>84531445
Exactly, I think Bendis has watched too much Criminal Minds and thought that this story would be interesting. Ulysses even looks kinda like Reid a bit when certain artists draw him.
>>84531326
It's "profiling" because everyone who's ever had a timetravel adventure knows that there are multiple future timelines diverging away from the present, and that future you saw isn't going to happen now that you've seen it.
Whenever one of the other precogs or timetravelers in the Marvel U would see the future they would either get a single factoid of something happening very soon, or a vision of something that could happen if they don't act to change fate. One vision was of the timeline they were in and about to experience, the other was of a timeline they would act to avoid living in.
So how do you tell apart the future timeline you've seen from the one you're in?
Ulysses can somehow predict what timeline he's going to end up in of all the possibilities, but when he acts he changes that future, so that wasn't actually a true vision of the future either.
That prediction of actions not yet certain to be is the "profiling".
>>84531576
I still don't see anything wrong with it.
>>84531576
Well changing the future is the objective is it not?
>>84531590
In the impure form, it's the reasoning behind cops pulling over black drivers in 'white' neighborhoods, or suspecting gay men of being pedos. The bias drives the profile, leading to faulty conclusions.
In the pure form, it's statistically driven off of probability curves and projections, which doesn't allow for free will or random chance. Maybe someone has a change of heart and doesn't rob the bank, maybe someone goes a different way home that day and cools off instead of murdering their spouse.
>>84531601
Butterfly theory. There's no way to tell that Ulysses visions make the future better, just that one event. Now that Banner is dead, maybe he isn't around to turn the tide in the next alien invasion, or maybe Hawkeye isn't there to take the crucial shot that nobody with a computer-guided targeting system, magic accuracy, or similar training could make.
>>84527772
>just wondering why you guys seem to hate it
Because hating everything is what all the cool kids do. Only faggots actually like anything.
>>84531671
Sure thing OP
>>84531662
>In the pure form, it's statistically driven off of probability curves and projections, which doesn't allow for free will or random chance. Maybe someone has a change of heart and doesn't rob the bank, maybe someone goes a different way home that day and cools off instead of murdering their spouse.
Then don't arrest them. Like I said, we haven't seen any pre-crime arrests yet.
Do what Spider-Man did in his tie-in. Follow a guy until he sees him break into his exe's house with a gun, THEN punch him and arrest him.
And if the person in the vision is already on the run from the law, use the intel from the vision to know where he's gonna be and arrest him, like they did with Owl, Madame Masque and Hijinx.
>There's no way to tell that Ulysses visions make the future better
Except you can. A world where the Celestial Destructor doesn't desolate NYC, a world where Thanos doesn't kill everyone at Project Pegasus and steals Iso-8, a world where people are evacuated before an earthquake and a world where you stop the Brood from setting up a nest on Earth are all objectively better futures.
>>84531590
He has yet to see the actual future in Civil War 2.
Like the Hulk rampage: Bruce Banner isn't going to rise from the grave to kill everyone until the "Resurrection of the Hulk" story event several years from now.
So that Hulk vision wasn't of the actual future.
But everyone showed up to Banner's lab.
And now that the jury has decided that it was self defense based upon a vision of the non-future, it's understood to be a justified action to kill based exclusively upon Ulysses' predictions of the non-future.
What if poor Miles was never going to do it?
What if that non-future was never actually going to happen even if Ulysses told nobody and took a vacation?
Should Miles still die for what he did in that non-future?
Like how Banner died for what he didn't do?
>>84530898
Freedom! Brought to you by 'Murica!
>>84531712
You don't seem to understand the whole point of Ulysses. They use his visions to specifically prevent them from coming true.
When people don't act on his visions, they come true.
Ulysses predicted the Celestial Destructor and Thanos would come, and they came, but since he warned everyone about it, they were prepared and prevented the worst case scenario he saw from coming to pass.
>>84527772
You know what would have been better?
If Old Man Logan had been the one to kill Banner.
The dude is from a future where Banner goes bad and rules California with his family of inbred cannibals.
He would be pre-disposed to take Ulysses' visions seriously, and unlike Hawkeye (Secret Invasion and Dark Reign aside) he's historically been a cold-blooded murderer.
So, adding to the list of things that Bendis doesn't know a damm thing about, are:
Terrorisim.
Criminal profiling.
Legal due process.
And the general concept of investigating a lead.
>>84531711
Um, they kinda shot Bruce in the head because of it. And before that, Maria Hill explicitly said he was under arrest. Arguably, it was because of Hank McCoy finding evidence of him experimenting on himself (thus adding yet ANOTHER item on the 'Beast is a hypocritical dickbag' list), but he claimed it was keeping him from becoming the Hulk, so... yeah, they had a pre-crime vision, then dug for evidence until they could arrest him for something that HAD happened. (The real world parallel here is police and government agencies tailing/digging into people they don't like to manufacture an arrest. In our society, just about everyone is guilty of breaking SOME law.)
>Except you can. A world where the Celestial Destructor doesn't desolate NYC, a world where Thanos doesn't kill everyone at Project Pegasus and steals Iso-8, a world where people are evacuated before an earthquake and a world where you stop the Brood from setting up a nest on Earth are all objectively better futures.
Celestial Destructor's leveling of NYC results in global unity to repel the invader, leading to a new era of world peace, Thanos's death wish manifests as soon as he grabs the Iso-8 and he retroactively erases himself from existence, etc, etc. "Objectively better" is a really hard goal to hit.
>>84531733
But how do you know?
How do you know that the Celestial wasn't going to do the same thing all the Celestials always do when they float over a city doing nothing?
How do you know that an army of superheroes showing up to attack wasn't the thing that caused the mass-death vision reality?
And that it's not only the teleportation magic that changed that fate from being caused by Ulysses and his vision?
How can you be absolutely certain that he did know what was going to be, when that mass death wasn't ever the future that was going to happen in the CivilWar2 issue?
>>84531782
Actually... That's a good fucking point. Did they initially decide to do it but then get told they needed to use a non-X-Men character, or is it just because Bendis and the editors dropped the ball again?
>>84531825
>>84531829
So, by your logic we should never do anything because we never know what good effects bad things could have.
I'm sorry, but that's just dumb.
>How do you know that the Celestial wasn't going to do the same thing all the Celestials always do when they float over a city doing nothing?
Because it was shown fucking destroying shit? And it isn't a Celestial like the ones we're used to, nobody knew what it was. Not to mention, regular Celestials have destroy shit all the time, ever heard of Exitar?
>How do you know that an army of superheroes showing up to attack wasn't the thing that caused the mass-death vision reality?
Because in Ulysses' vision the heroes didn't show up to stop it because they didn't have time to get there. He specifically saw the Destructor doing the destruction.
>And that it's not only the teleportation magic that changed that fate from being caused by Ulysses and his vision?
I'm sorry, what?
>How can you be absolutely certain that he did know what was going to be, when that mass death wasn't ever the future that was going to happen in the CivilWar2 issue?
Yeah, it didn't happen because they avoided it thanks to his vision. I'm not sure what you're arguing.
>>84531825
Banner has actually broken countless laws before this. Quite frankly, I don't understand why he wasn't a fugitive or in prison already. Or at the very least, only allowed to work in a lab under constant supervision.
And "they" didn't shoot Bruce, Clint did on his own accord, because Bruce asked him to.
>>84531862
No. They didn't do it because that's Old Man Logan's story not this Civil War 2 story.
Old Logan tried to kill Amadeus Hulk and failed badly at it. What makes youthink he even could kill Banner Hulk?
>>84531914
Because Banner was powerless?
>>84531886
It's simple: there is nothing to prove that every vision Ulysses has is true.
What if they're all lies?
You're arguing that his visions are all what's going to happen because he saw it happen.
But he didn't see what would happen, he saw what didn't happen.
Get it? It did not happen.
He saw a lie. What he saw was not the future.
The question left unanswered is if it was ever going to be the future. There is no absolute proof of that. Is there?
>>84531945
If that was true then why was he killed?
>>84530741
Do Canadian ninjas count as white straight males? If so, check that box too.
>>84531914
He's depowered
>>84531825
>they
Clint.
Clint shot Banner in the head because of it. And Banner gave him the arrow a week before cooking up this exact fucking situation.
>>84532014
Every single one was white. I'd count it.
>>84531994
The only way to redeem this story is if hes actually a villain thats playing everyone.
>>84532025
Yeah but they were Canadian, that kind of conflicts with the whole straight thing.
>>84532037
That would honestly make it even worse.
>>84532024
THEY includes everyone. THEY showed up as a group.
You want to keep splitting hairs?
Or do you want to pretend the non-point of distinction you made disproved anything at all said?
>>84531370
I hope someone brings that up. Even Tony who was on Banner's side foolishly went along with this brilliant plan. Carol is all "I didn't plan for this and couldn't see this coming" but you bring a lynch mob crew to Banner's doorstep and don't at least anticipate someone there could just take the law into their own hands based on the vision? Incompetent.
That's not even mentioning the potential 'create your own destiny' setup of triggering the Hulk situation you were sent there to stop in the first place. This is probably the biggest issue and once again, Tony went along with it too so he can't really point blame.
Civil War II #1 will get a second printing on August 17.
>>84532037
Are you responding to the right post?
Because what you wrote has nothing to do with that post.
You didn't answer any question in that post.
You don't seem to have followed what was said in that post.
You wrote nothing about what was being talked about.
Who were you trying to respond to?
>>84531994
>It's simple: there is nothing to prove that every vision Ulysses has is true.
He saw the Celestial Destructor come, it came.
He saw Thanos come, he came.
He saw 2 earthquakes, they happened.
He saw Hijinx steal a tank, it happened, and it was about to explode just like he predicted.
He saw the Brood try and set up a nest, it happened.
He saw a man murder 2 people, and he was about to do it when Spider-Man came in.
He saw the Owl and Madame Masque meet up with the Kingpin, they were there and they were arrested for their previous crimes.
His visions work, that's the whole point of the story.
>>84531531
Even funnier: Remember Civil War 1? Where Reed was one of Tony's biggest supporters... because he used math to predict the future?
>>84528167
>some of the charcters are not even being them selfs take Captain America (Steve) for example
I dunno, that particular characterization could largely be chalked up to the fact that Steve is currently, y'know, HYDRA.
>>84532279
>Remember Civil War 1
I make a point to remember it
Those who forget the mistakes of the past and all that.
Im thinking Ulysses is more of a "Laplace Demon" than a pure precog. Profiling to the nth power
>>84532279
That doesn't count, because the great mouse god decrees it so.
On really annoying thing is, Hawkeye says he could see a glint of Banner hulking out and thats why he shot him.
>My eyesights so much better than you guy's
But wouldnt Iron man have this all recorded and being monitored by his suit anyway?
Shouldnt he have some proof that he was or wasnt actually hulking out?
Why didnt they just shoot Hulk into Space?
>>84532436
Shut up Tony.
>>84532396
Cuz ambiguity. This way, when they need Hawkeye again, they don't have to worry about wiping away a murder, it was "justifiable".
>>84532010
Because the fucking "infallible" clairvoyant didn't know that.
>Banner gets shot in the face by Hawkeye
>Tony asks what the fuck was this
>Carol: "ACCOUNTABILITY!"
For something Banner hadn't done yet
and that they were probably going to cause by showing up like they did
God, Carol is the most unlikeable idiot in comics
In a universe where Planet Hulk happened like five minutes ago their time, why the fuck would you go about that situation like they did
Why is everyone a moron
>>84532582
I wouldn't call Bendis clairvoyant
>>84532436
>Lockjaw teleports Banner to the moon or some alien planet a million lightyears away in an instant
>yfw you realize Lockjaw is broken as fuck
>>84532519
>Cuz ambiguity. This way, when they need Hawkeye again, they don't have to worry about wiping away a murder, it was "justifiable".
Yeah, they want to push that "I saw him reaching for his gun" thing cops use. In the end it doesn't matter if it's true or not because the cop reasonably feared for his life. 110% chance Hawkeye gets off completely, but of course he's going to feel guilty for god knows how long and other heroes are probably going to hate him for a bit. Pretty sure Bendis hates him.
>>84532396
Tony wasn't wearing his suit.
>>84532779
Which made no sense because what does it matter that Iron Man's not wearing his suit when every other motherfucker is sitting with their sights trained on you
>>84532779
I still kind of refuse to believe there wasnt something on him capable of suiting up and monitoring shit, especially with his current set up.
I can imagine him thinking about not bringing anything to show his solidarity with banner but i honestly dont think he would trust the others enough not to bring something.
>NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME
Out of every legitimate complaint, this one gets me the angriest.
It's the fact that CW2 is just another event that won't impact anything but sales. Massive crossovers can be done all they fucking want, but not at the expense of bad writing and just overall shitting on their own brand.
False advertising like "UNCHARTED TERRITORY FOR US" and the "ALL-NEW, ALL DIFFERENT" really just do more harm than good. At least give a nervous chuckle rather than keeping a straigh face.
And hey, kudos to Marvel if they actually stick with all of this. I'll never buy another one of their books for ruining Spider-Man and killing my favorite Marvel character, but at least they kept their word.
>>84532798
he was under arrest or some gay shit. Because bringing unrelated prisoners along to an "arrest" is a great idea.
It's been 3 issues and it has yet to feel like a superhero civil war.
I think it would be better if it started out as profiling instead of thought crime and switching to profiling half way through.
Fuck you Bendis this is horrible and unreadble. Much like most Marvel books nowdays.
Bendis's best works, Jessica Jones and Ultimate Spider-Man among them, worked because they didn't deal with continuity. They were perfectly blank slates, so if Bendis thought "gee, I want to introduce a purple guy with mind control who possibly rapes Jessica", he could do that with relatively no problems.
With that in mind, it makes no sense for him to tackle long-running series with tons of continuity, like Guardians and Spider-Man, let alone massive crossover events. Marvel should really assign writers to roles which play on their strengths, like having Ewing fix continuity errors and Bendis write long-winded court speak.
>>84527772
It feels like cheap shock moments, terrible mischaracterization, coupled with a kinda boring way of dealing with the concept.
Rhodey didn't die because of predictions. He died because Carol forces did a shit job of dealing with thanks and bendis decided to have Rhodes die during the fight.
Same with banner. He didn't die because the kid predicted hulk would kill em all. He died because they showed up with an army practically designed to antagonize banner into becoming the hulk and because hawkeye jumped the gun....cos bendis idiotically decided to make him.
>>84532944
Sides are getting chosen next issue then the Civil War starts in 5. Then 6 will be the big splash page fight and 7 will be the rushed conclusion.
>>84531728
This is no time to worry about freedom there killing the English language
>>84533130
> so if Bendis thought "gee, I want to introduce a purple guy with mind control who possibly rapes Jessica
You do realize that Stan Lee created the Purple Man back in the 60s, right?
>>84527772
For something called "Civil War" there's not much war going on.
>>84533917
Shit, really?
Well, point is that he wasn't snarled in continuity such that Bendis COULDN'T use him in Jessica Jones.
>>84530684
What says Kamala's sister-in-law, who supposed to be "the voice of reason" here I think, makes no sens. You actually can be prosecuted for planning to commit a crime such as a terrorist attack, a murder or a heist for example. The Court will just have to determine if it was certain you were going to commit this crime.
I agree with you anon.
For now, Carol has done nothing morally dubious. Intercepting the "Celestial" was a good thing, same goes for Thanos and it's even more obvious for natural disasters such as earthquakes, which Ulysses can predict too.
>Bendis a HACK
>>84534242
Yup, "conspiracy" and "attempted X" is a thing.
The Prosecutor probably wouldn't even bother, he already has plenty of things to charge Hijinx with like stealing a tank, driving a tank around New Jersey, wreckless endangerment and all the crimes he had committed before that as the leader of a Crime Syndicate of Canadian Ninjas involved with smuggling.
>>84534298
Yeah, in this issue of Ms. Marvel it's particularly obvious that Hijinx had to be stopped.
There might be a problem:
- if the guy is apprehended too early, which happened with Banner, but it was totally his and Clint's call,
- if Ulysses lies to its advantage or is controlled by an ill-intented guy.
Then again, if Ulysses' predictions allow to prevent cosmic threat or natural disasters, what's the problem ? Rhodes did not die because of the prediction, but because of poor planning. Likewise, Banner died because everybody forgot Cho is the Hulk (thanks Bendis) and because Clint couldn't manage to keep his arrow in his quiver.
>>84534712
>if Ulysses lies to its advantage or is controlled by an ill-intented guy.
Except wasn't it already established that he can SHARE the visions? So he can't very well lie about what's in them (not that he'd be able to anyway since the MU is *lousy* with psychics and people like Wolverine and X-23 who can "smell a lie" or whatever).
>>84534910
>>84534910
Ulysses is immune to Psychics.
>>84534096
Civil Discussion, more likely.
>>84534942
>Ulysses is immune to Psychics.
There are still people like X-23 and the chick from Lokie Agent of Asgard who can tell if you're lying or not.
>>84532734
You wanna talk about broken characters?
Magik from X-Men does those teleportation disks, right? Well, they also let her travel through time.
Hell, she's technically the Magik of an alternate timeline.
So unless something happened to her powers since AvX (haven't followed X-Men much since), she could literally pop into the future to see if the visions will come true.
Or she could, you know, just check to see if anything's gonna kill the world next week.
It's honestly pretty good, /co/ is triggered because they don't like Bendis or Marvel.
Characterizations are inconsistent, motivations are murky or stupid, and the throughline of the plot is awkward.
All of those things are true, but the things wrong with the book only diminish the book if you're autistic as shit and unable to compartmentalize.
There's some really, really good character moments in this book. It's definitely the best thing Bendis has written in a very long time.
>>84529153
Annihilation
>>84527772
you are a marvel shill, you should be killed
>>84535026
Yeah, or Daredevil.
>>84527772
I'm interested to see how it plays out but I'm also getting bored of the deaths already. I also think it's hilarious how everyone is riding how sad it is that War Machine died but I haven't seen anything (read most/not all of the tie-ins) about She-Hulk being dead.
It's just MUH WAR MACHINE. Killing Hulk just because he might Hulk again is definitely a good catalyst to start the war, and frankly I think they should have kept War Machine and She-Hulk alive and just had that start the fighting.
Picture it:
>They save the city
>They beat Thanos easily thanks to the kid's warning
>Everyone is loving this kid and how he's preventing so many disasters.
>Then suddenly he has a Hulk vision and banner ends up dying when the heroes try to react to it.
>Suddenly Tony, who was concerned about what the heroes were doing to start with, is completely opposed to the kid, while Captain Marvel hates what happened but still sees him as too valuable to get rid of.
>Heroes draw lines.
>>84535809
You're definitely right; Tony's motivations feels cheap because they seem to boil down to MUH RHODEY. But She-Hulk is just comatose.
>>84535888
Really? I thought she flatlined.
>>84535888
That's honestly one of the parts I like about it.
>Rhodey using old armor
>Asks Tony for new shit
>Jokes about it and doesn't give it to him
>He dies
>Tony's first response is to think about the armor failing and not his dead friend
On the one hand, it's a really nice motivation for Tony, it plays into his own self-hatred, and it really helps to push him off the fucking deep end.
On the other, it muddles the ideological debate they could be having, because it's more emotional than rational.
I'm digging it desu
>>84531365
I love that little squint Miles does.
It's like he's saying "Really, nigga?"
>>84531365
>>84536019
Which issue is that? I thought I was caught up on Miles' stuff.
>>84527772
It's bad and youre bad for liking it.
I really like it! But I haven't read a lot of Marvel stuff in the past so I'm not as nitpicky as some of you guys. Mostly I think its awesome seeing all the heroes together with great art, and the deaths have been shocking. Not sure if that makes it good storytelling or not but it makes me want to keep reading.
>>84529905
>I haven't read it but I'm going to say it's identical to every other event
>>84530684
I literally don't get why a Minority Report situation is meant to be morally ambiguous.
If you have evidence someone is going to commit a crime you arrest them for attempting the given crime, the only difference is a psychic reported what they were going to do rather than a snitch.
>>84527772
rip-off plot
>>84531678
this retarded
>>84536381
Wondering this too. Is it from one of the limited spin off series?
>>84535924
She got better off-panel.
>>84536712
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-inconsistent_preferences
Just because someone resolves to commit a crime doesn't mean they will, and if we arrested everyone for simply resolving to, every single person on the planet would be in jail.
>>84536712
I haven't seen the movie, but in the short story you were often picked up before the idea to do the crime even came into your head.
The main character of the story is actually a cop who all of a sudden gets van'd and he has no idea why.Turns out that they had three children with psychic powers doing this, and two of them would have one vision and the other would have a different one. The odd-man out would be the "Minority Report"
How are the Future perps being held?
There is no actual law that would allowed of incarceration for something yet to be commited, even if discussed by the worlds governing bodies, it would take ages before an accord can be met. So, what the avengers are illegally imprisoning people as private citizens or are they illegally detaining as government agents where you can ask for a writ of habeas corpus?
>>84527772
>Why do you guys hate this?
The concept is very poorly handled.
The events seem contrived and sometimes contradict continuity.
People act like their IQ is halved.
>>84531531
>Anno Stark won't be the ironman because it'll be a Dindu Nuffin and Doom if they last, or tony if Movie Synergy is true to word
fucking hell, marvel has a fuck ton to explain if they don't touch upon this
>>84528167
>>84532289
>Carol and Tony yelling at each other about pointless plot
>Tony: Steve, tell Carol why I am completely justified in kidnapping and such.
>Steve: Uh I got problems of my own Tony.
>Steve getting fitted for Captain Hydra suit
>It's canon that Civil War 1 would've been solved if Tony was a chick and they could just resolve things via their genitals
If Reed was here he would've pointed out the obvious solution.
>>84530995
>everyone in-universe keeps giving Hawkeye shit for being a "former criminal"
>the very few things he did were petty crimes at best, and very popular heroes have done much worse shit at times
>>84537023
99% sure they're ignore it.
>>84537398
It's sort of a sick commentary on reality. We throw criminals in jail for petty crimes but the people that do terrible things on a daily basis (dictators, despots, etc) are our allies half the time.
>>84534242
I haven't read Ms. Marvel in a while, but Kamala's sister-in-law is making huge leaps in logic. This guy apparently stole a fucking tank and other military equipment. How can you even argue that charging him for what he didn't get the chance to do is going to make you "redefine crime?" Then comparing that to an actual issue where people get arrested and thrown in jail (another problem is the incarceration rate and actual rehabilitation that gets done) for standing on a street. In situation A, you have a guy who stole a mother fucking tank. In situation B, you have a couple of kids who are hanging out on a street, maybe smoking or loitering or whatever. How the fuck are those related
I've agreed with Carol through most of this shitty event, and the only problem that I have is the huge lack of communication, but that's on Clint's behalf. Tony does have a point with moral issues, but we haven't seen Carol take it too far. Still, Bendis is fucking shit and I'm pissed that this terrible event is going to last until November.
>>84534165
Yeah, he was an infrequent villain before Bendis. Like you said, it worked there because the character was rarely used.
But then again I haven't read all the Purple Man stories. Honestly with his Daredevil run I liked it but then I read up on some of the characters he used and then realized he made some bad fucking changes.
>>84535924
She flatlined but the second issue had a recap of the first which just said she was just in a coma. And the only reference to it in story is just a line of dialogue from Tony.
Some people will point to She-Hulk's last words to Carol as later setting up the ironic revelation that she wouldn't be on Carol's side, but the way She-Hulk's condition was just only referenced in the recap and the dialogue make me think they were going to kill her off, but the early leaks made then quickly change it.
>>84531712
>Like the Hulk rampage: Bruce Banner isn't going to rise from the grave to kill everyone until the "Resurrection of the Hulk" story event several years from now.
World War Hulk II coming in 2017
>>84532010
Bendis
>>84541192
Hulk, justifiably pissed that he was killed along with Banner for literally doing nothing, rages his way out of hell to get some well deserved revenge.
And just like WWH, he'll be in the right AGAIN.
>>84542725
That honestly sounds pretty awesome.
>>84527772
I liked Spider-Woman's take on the whole thing. She keeps trying to live her life and Carol leaves like 59 messages saying to call her back there is this new inhuman his power is a game changer over and over and Jessica just doesn't want any part of it because she, like everyone else, has been over this like a dozen times. The "this changes everything" stuff has been repeated countless times already in the main as well as the tie ins so its understandable that someone wouldn't want any part of this.
>>84536834
Yeah, that was movie too.
>>84542725
>right
>WWH
The Illuminati didn't blow up that world and he was happy as hell on the planet. Not to mention everything in planet hulk only happened because he smashed up the ship.
>>84547102
>hulk smashed the ship
>not his supposed friend
>>84547102
Well I meant more how he was completely justified in hating and getting a bit of justice on the illuminati. They DID, however indirectly, do some seriously fucked shit to him. Like committing him to forced exile without trial.
>>84547102
No, traitors to his rule loaded a fucked up fusion core or some such onto the ship and Miek stood by and watched it happen.
Read comics before posting about them.
>>84539123
>Still, Bendis is fucking shit and I'm pissed that this terrible event is going to last until November.
Worst part is its going to be cutting in to one of Marvel's 2 good comics.
Wait shit it was mentioned in the last issue of the vision it might fuck that up like it's fucking ms marvel
>>84542725
But Hawkeye was completely in the right.
It's something he would never do but he was in the right
>>84548201
>>84549846
>>84549932
I meant the ship going off course in the first place. That was his fault, he was suppose to go to an uninhabited planet.
>>84550712
Banner wouldn't care, you're right that Hawkeye was in the right. But Hulk and Banner don't always see eye to eye.
HULK might want out of hell, Bruce may be okay with the whole being dead thing. Which would be an interesting story hook honestly.
>>84535809
Russos > Bendis
>>84550968
>>84550712
>>84542725
>Hawkeye in the right
>Banner screaming about how he couldn't fucking Hulk
>Surrounded by people who could handle him for a bit
>S Rank Marksman
>But he shoots him when his "eyes flicker"
Like shit Clint was in the right.
>>84551122
Well either way, I just want a story of a pissed off Hulk taking over/punching his way out of hell to completely wreck the status quo. It'd be great.
>>84551122
Exactly his eyes flickered that means he was going to hulk out.
