>All the problem lies with Greg Rucka.
>EVERYONE loves my Wonder Woman covers and wants me to stay. Greg Rucka is the ONLY one who has any problem with covers. Greg Rucka has been trying to alter and censor my artwork since day one.
>Greg Rucka thought my Wonder Woman #3 cover was vulgar and showed too much skin, and has been spearheading censorship, which is baffling since my Wonder Woman image is on model and shows the same amount of skin as the interior art, and it’s a VARIANT COVER and he should have no editorial control over it. (But he does. WTF?!!!)
>I tried to play nice, not rock the boat and do my best on the covers, but Greg’s weird political agenda against me and my art has made that job impossible. Wonder Woman was the ONLY reason I came over to DC Comics.
>To DC’s credit, especially [Art Director] Mark Chiarello, they have been very accommodating. But they are caught between a rock and a hard place.
>I just wanted to be left alone and do my Wonder Woman variant covers in peace. But Greg Rucka is in a hostile power trip and causing unnecessary friction over variant covers.
Whose side are you on? Was Rucka a cunt or did Cho overreacted?
http://www.strawpoll.me/10757580
>>84525348
Rucka because fuck Cho threads
The art basket joke didn't need daily threads for a full year
I don't like Cho at all so his first point is already invalidated. Rucka knows his audience and Cho is not how you advertise to that.
>>84525348
Rucka is a nutjob that thinks he's a lesbian in man's body (totes not trans tho) because of his feminie masculinity.
It wouldn't surprise me if he pulled this shit against Cho because of his recent awakening.
I think Cho overreacted a bit, but I do believe that Rucka was probably against Cho doing variants from the start.
But I would be too.
>>84525348
They're both fucking faggots like 90% of people in this industry
Stop making threads about this shit, goddamn
We already have a thread
>>84525249
mods get rid of this one
>>84525387
>le hipster contrarian face
>>84525348
rucka is being a cunt but he's one of maybe 4 writers that do a good job with WW so whatever
>>84525348
losing Cho's covers is shitty.
Besides that, if what Cho said is true, both are gigantic faggots. Rucka for micromanaging, and Cho for reacting like he has, so whatever.
>>84525482
>thinks he's a lesbian in man's body
What the fuck is this
>>84525912
Even as a fan of his art normally, not really all that bothered by losing Cho's covers, honestly. Whoever's coloring them is doing a crappy job, Diana just looks weird in the final versions whereas the linework looks decent. And Cho's replacement does some good artwork, so not much of a loss.
>>84525434
Yeah just look at the demeaning covers he made. It totally goes against the tone in the Wonderbooks.
>>84525922
the times we live in.
>>84525434
VARIANT covers.
>>84525348
I have to admit, Rucka's being a dick (and frankly a weirdo), but Cho overreacts
>>84525434
>Cho is not how you advertise to that
Cho has a lot of female fans. Plenty of women love cheesecake and pin up stuff
>>84525348
Oh, it's this thread again!
Where's #TeamTheyreBothFuckingBabiesAndShouldBeSmotheredToDeath?
>>84526031
I mean really, do people expect her to be going nude under that thing? The other cover was her in movement, of course one of the flaps wouldnt be in place
Rucka literally has complete control as per his contract. Cho is a fucking idiot for not having what he was supposedly promised put into his own contract.
>>84525348
Is this the Civil War of DC?
>>84526296
No, this is the "Bendis is ruining everything" meme of DC.
Only I don't know if we're going to autistically vilify Rucka or Cho...?
Rucka is a complete cuck who sees his fat white self as a strong lesbian woman.
>>84526149
But they go against the narrative and therefore must be purged.
>>84526149
As much as they're all pictures of "the Cho girl", women can like them because they're realistic depictions of "body positive" female imagery.
In the end it doesn't matter. Cho could have just dealt with it like any other job and Rucka could have communicated a bit more clearly with the art directors in charge of hiring variant talent. The problem is that both of them have inflated egos because of recent events in their own sphere of the comics world, thus the clash.
>>84526186
This desu
I'd say we should be thankful they didn't be more immature and get into a twitter slap fight, but that drama would've been delicious.
There hasn't been a good twitter slap fight between creators in a long time.
Rucka is a weirdo who thinks he's a dyke. I dont have an opinion on this particular matter, but i'd side with this cho guy to be safe.
>>84525387
t. SJW.
Of course /co/umblr supports censorship.
>>84526558
Cho is big enough that he has the option to walk if he feels like it. Rucka was completely in the wrong.
>>84525348
I think Rucka is overreacting but at the end of the day Cho chose to walk. He wasn't fired, he just couldn't take the heat
>>84529428
>he just couldn't take the heat
If you had the option to walk and had somebody whining about what you should and shouldn't be allowed to draw, wouldn't you?
>>84525348
from what I understand, it doesn't sound like Rucka explicitly demand Cho off the covers. Cho's variant got cropped because of that panty shot and he got pissed and quit?
also
>BUT VARIANT COVERS
yes it's a variant, but it's not an incentive cover (i.e. 1 variant cover book for every 25 regular cover orders.) they're cover price, no different than the variant theme months DC was doing before. that means it's less of a collector item and more of just an alternate cover.
I think Cho draws a beautiful Wonder Woman, but he's always been a huge baby who likes attention of any kind. No one has a secret agenda against him, there is just an expectation out there that you don't draw a panty shot of the most famous heroine in comics for publishing. especially when DC is trying to make a new image for themselves with Rebirth, that cover going to print with the panty shot would have pissed people off.
>>84529428
This.
Rucka is a gigantic faggot. But Cho is a fucking wanker and a huge pussy.
I kinda feel like I have to be with Team Cho on this one because even though he did kind of do the whiny "I'm taking my toys and going home" thing, the fact is that Rucka was overstepping his bounds and doing a power play he had no right to given that he was just the writer rather than an editor, and the "uncensored" version is SO damn innocuous that his objection can't reasonably be about the art itself.
>>84530132
>"I'm taking my toys and going home"
What a fucking pussy
Reposting,
>Since you’re asking me a straight question, I’m going to answer honestly as possible from my point of view.
>Wonder Woman was my dream job at DC Comics. I love and respect the character very much. When I was invited by DC to draw the 24 variant covers for Wonder Woman, I was ecstatic. I was told that I had complete freedom on the variant covers and the only person in charge of me was the senior art director, Mark Chiarello, who I greatly respect. Win-win for everyone.
>Now the variant covers are handled by entirely separate editorial office than the rest of the books. I was given assurance that I would not have to deal with the Wonder Woman book writer or editor at all, and were told I would only be dealing with Mark Chiarello. So I came onboard and started working right away.
>Everything went smoothly at first. I turned in my first batch of cover sketches and Chiarello approved them, and I started finishing and inking them ASAP since these were biweekly covers and we had limited time. Then Chiarello started getting art notes from Greg Rucka ordering him to tell me to alter and change things on the covers. (Remove arm band, make the skirt longer and wider to cover her up, showing too much skin, add the lasso here, etc.) Well, Chiarello and I were baffled and annoyed by Greg Rucka’s art change orders. More so, since the interior pages were showing the same amount or more skin than my variant covers. (For example: Issue #2, panel One, etc.) I requested that Greg Rucka back off and let me do my variant covers in peace. After all, these were minor and subjective changes. And let’s face it, being told by a non-artistic freelancer what I can and cannot draw didn’t sit too well with me.
1/2.
>Then things got ugly. Apparently unbeknownst to Chiarello and me, DC, for whatever reason, gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract. My promises of creative freedom were verbal. I think this is a case of complete miscommunication and things falling through the crack during the post-DC headquarter move to LA. Had I’ve known Greg Rucka had complete editorial control over the variant covers, I would have never came onboard Wonder Woman.
>Since we were on the same team with the same goal – making great Wonder Woman comics, Mark Chiarello and I tried to reason with Greg Rucka to back off and let me do the variant covers in peace. But Rucka refused and tried to hammer me in line. Things escalated and got toxic very fast. The act of a freelance writer art directing me, overruling my senior art director, altering my artwork without consent was too much. I realized after Rucka’s problems with my Wonder Woman #3 variant cover, my excitement and desire for the project have completely disappeared and I decided to bow out quietly after I finish my Wonder Woman #4 variant cover. (This was around end of May.) But DC wanted me to stay and finish out #5 and #6 covers to give them some time to find my replacement.
>So I stuck it out and tried to deal with the flagrant disrespect for six issues, and quietly stepped off until Bleeding Cool gave me little choice but to respond. They caught wind that there was some discord in the Wonder Woman office over my covers and was about to cast negative light on the wrong people. So I went public yesterday and set the story straight, correctly naming Greg Rucka as the source of the problem before the wrong information was published.
2/2.
>>84525348
Rucka, because seriously, who reacts like that? Cho is seriously the most crybaby man in comics. No wonder /co/ sucks his dick so much.
>Cho should've played ball!
If that little bit of under suit is enough to throw a fit over and demand changing. , especially given the high cut thong she's had before and Rucka had no problem with, then it's pretty obvious that the only way to play ball would've been to walk.
Because this clearly isn't about that tiny little bit of covered skin. It's about the artist not having politics Rucka likes. He's a grunt. He's not the CEO and he's not the editor. It's not his call who should get to do covers, especially when the final product isn't even objectionable.
Cho's covers haven't even been good. He draws Wonder Woman with a very weird face.
>Rucka demands nitpicks he has no right to DC has to keep the baby happy so he doesn't quit.
>Cho is the crybaby for pacifying the whining writer.
Y'knoiw I look at all you guys calling Cho a crybaby for going to the press about it and I can't help but remember that you guys got McDuffie fired over similar shit.
>>84530255
Why the fuck are you putting that on us?
>>84530173
>DC.... gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract
Wow, it literally is Greg writing his fanfiction of Wonder Woman, no wonder it's so fucking boring and meandering.
>>84529489
But...she's been in actual panties for like half her existence...
>>84530289
That's how I remember it. What's your recollection of what happened?
FUCKA RUCKA
![2009-06-16_cc_072[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/nj16fdI.gif "2009-06-16_cc_072[1].gif")
>>84530390
Some clickbait artist compiling a bunch of forum posts McDuffe made about why his floppy run sucked so much compared to his cartoon run.
The biggest parallel is that DC editorial seems to have fucked up again, assuming the accounts are correct, by promising Rucka and Cho last word on creative control.
For me, the biggest thing about this is how normal the covers look. The closest idea I've seen so far to reasonable of why not is that Rucka gets triggered by WW's panties like blue arms on a hedgehog
>>84530623
>Some clickbait artist compiling a bunch of forum posts McDuffe made about why his floppy run sucked so much compared to his cartoon run.
It was /co/. We compiled his posts, by searching them like crazy, and had several threads about it. Then Rich Johnson, from Bleeding Cool, took our compilations and made an article about this. The article gain track and McDuffie was fired.
>>84530659
Was /co/ actually trying to get him fired? I definitely don't recall that part.
>>84530724
/co/ didn't liked his run, at all, but some people did, so there would be constant discussions that only got worse once we found out that he had talked about his issues in his forum.
>>84530724
We weren't and it wasn't our fault that Didio got defensive over what was effectively the truth. It was DC editorial's choice to be complete cunts to McDuffie.
>people actually supporting that feminist Rucka
>>84530966
He's written more good comics than bad, so he gets cut a lot of slack for being a huge tool.
>>84531056
I haven't read much by him but he did write one of the few good Convergence minis. This current Wonder Woman is dogshit, though.
Also, I'm out of the loop on this. Can someone post which covers were "problematic" for Cucka? Is it just this? >>84526031
>>84525387
Cho because fuck beta puritan faggots like you and Rucka.
>>84531108
Well the one Frank cites as over the line was >>84525348
He didn't like how much skin she was showing or some shit.
It doesn't really mesh with Rucka's other work so it has Frank thinking it's personal not really because the art.
>>84531108
His original Wonder Woman run is consistently referred to as one of her best ever, plus other great stuff like Queen & Country and Gotham Central (with Brubaker).
And yeah, the problem seriously seems to be "slightly too much leg".
He's a...sensitive man.
>>84530159
>>84530173
He's right to leave. He was promised complete control, and Rucka getting control never should have happened. DC knows it and are trying to make amends by giving him Trinity.
Rucka is completely in the wrong and this was a political issue for him from the start.
>>84530180
>who responds to somebody trying to censor you like that?
Anybody with integrity. Do you think he should have kept his head down and rolled over for Cucka?
Oh cool, it's now forever impossible to talk about any Rucka books in a positive light.
>Oh man, you should check out Whiteout.
>That cuck book? No thanks.
>>84531180
>>84531190
It's just this? Seriously? Good fucking God, it's not like he drew her performing fellatio on a guy.
>>84531278
They eventually satisfied Rucka by moving her a little to the right so her panty line isn't showing.
>OMG CHO IS SUCH A CRYBABY HE SHOULD SUCK IT UP AND DEAL WITH IT
...So why shouldn't Rucka?
>>84531263
He shouldn't have been a cuck then.
>>84531325
Because he agrees with /co/'s polititical views.
>>84525348
Cho quitting isn't overreacting obviously. He was promised a given level of editorial control and got far more than he bargained for. More editorial input means it takes more time, it's simply not the job he contracted for. Artistic integrity doesn't even need to come into it.
Explaining that there was unexpected editorial interference from the writer and the job fell through because of it could have been done with more left unsaid though.
>>84531459
Unfortunately (and this is a point Cho himself even raises) if you leave things unsaid, these days people, usually """"""""''reporters""""""""'' will fill in the blanks and say things for you.
>>84525631
Just noticed that last reply on my post on the last thread. >>84530220
Aww, how cute. He thinks he's a victim :)
Take this twitter drama shit outside where it belongs. Shit thread.
>>84531525
Hi /co/micsalliance!
>>84531642
If I were Comics Alliance I would be on twitter right now, not here.
Stupid memeposter.
>>84531492
Which is exactly what happened.
>>84525434
You're one ignorant moron.
>>84531492
>>84532731
But would it have happened if Cho just left and said nothing or an innocuous "we had different ideas for the project"?
>>84525348
>20% of /co/ are SJWs
Wow, not as bad as I thought.
>>84532776
Again, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED.
The news sites started saying he had conflicts with DC Editorial so he came out and said no, it was all Rucka.
>>84532802
that isn't what happened
>>84525348
>Was Rucka a cunt or did Cho overreacted?
Yes.
>>84531492
>""""""""''
Fuck off.
Does Rucka really understand himself as a male lesbian?
>>84531335
This. Anyone that supports Cucka is an SJW.
>>84532841
>This. Anyone that supports Cucka is an SJW.
I know as a regular poster on /pol/ you don't know how to read, but I'd just like to know how you learned to write.
>>84525348
>No "Fuck Drama"
suck my dick.
>>84533020
>>84533004
How would he read that if he doesn't know how? I know SJWs lack any kind of logic or critical thinking ability but even that had to be obvious to you.
Rucka writes a good Wonder Woman.
The issue is that he's a cunt.
I'm not buying the variant covers though, so I'd rather they stuck with Rucka.
costing someone a paying job is pretty bullshit even if you don't like his covers
and his covers don't seem all that bad
>panty shot
i mean the character wore a one piece bath suit for 90% of her existence. its not a pair of underpants
>>84533282
he quit wonder woman. and he just moved to different variants.
>>84525348
I think the most concrete evidence Cho has on Rucka is that Cho's covers aren't sexist and are actually good.
>>84530173
>Apparently unbeknownst to Chiarello and me, DC, for whatever reason, gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract
Jesus, cause last time writer-editors were a thing it worked out great for everyone
>>84531190
>And yeah, the problem seriously seems to be "slightly too much leg".
That we know. Cho walked out on cover 6. We've only seen the changes up to cover 3 or 4 I believe. God knows what Rucka bitched about circa issue 5 or 6
>>84532839
>It’s two-fold. I’ve said this before and people don’t actually take me seriously when I say it – there’s that joke about being a male lesbian, but I female-identify, and I always have since I was very young. I am not transgendered; I’m not looking for gender reassignment. I clearly have more testosterone flowing through me than most men need, and you can tell just by looking at me. I’m comfortable with my maleness, but for whatever reason the way I’m wired, I have always female-identified. Now, that does not equate to writing women well.
>I tend to see – socially, I don’t tend to be myself in a male role. I don’t know any other way to put it. Now that being a separate issue, because that’s not an issue of writing, that is an issue of identity… And I think people, we identify however we identify. I’m a Caucasian American Jew. These are all things that make up who I am. That goes to the second half of the question, which is — I believe, for me, all writing comes from character. Character is made up of a variety of different things. One of those elements is gender. We live in a gendered society, and all you have to do is ask any woman here what her experience walking down a empty street at 3 in the morning is like, and then ask any guy. And you’re gonna get different responses. There’s a different implicit threat. That’s a societal problem. In the same way that – what’s your education? Well, those of you who were brought up in Catholic school have a different world experience than people who went to an inner city public school or a rich suburban [or] middle class public school. These are all elements of character.
>>84533334
that's only because we're seeing post Rucka censorship. Frank's previous covers were a lot more bandage themed and stickier
>>84532809
It's exactly what happened
>>84525922
normally it'd be a silly/stupid joke that straight guys tell lesbians when hitting on them
but we are not in normal times
>>84533420
>Caucasian American Jew
>Jew
Ah, I knew it.
>>84533440
Where can I see them?
>>84533420
What happened to just saying that you're in touch with your feminine side? And what's with the weird ramble at the end about women walking the streets at night?
>>84533511
Because at some point it stopped being you liked doing "girly" shit, and instead meant you were actually a female trapped in a man's body.
How we jumped to that conclusion, no one fucking knows
>>84525348
>ideaguys vs programmers
I wonder who's more important
>>84533020
THIS THIS THIS
Nothing I hate more than being informed.
>>84533420
What deep madness has our society bred
>>84533530
It's ironic that these kinds of thoughts have only served to foist more restrictive gender roles upon people's lives when they had the intention of dismantling them. It seems like people are losing touch with what it means to be a man or to be a woman to the point where the idea of being a man who can express his femininity or being a woman who can express her masculinity can't come into play without being dissected and written out in sanitized terms rather than just lived out
>>84533420
This guy is seriously unhinged, and I don't mean loony Alan Moore style unhinged, but in a way that his entire world view is so messed up from some event or conditioning in his past it is massively distorting his world view.
The fact that he is focusing on the school issue speaks a lot, his trauma most likely stems from school, or around school age so he is anchoring onto it pretty hard, because I sure as shit know that my "world view" isn't even remotely similar to anybody I went to school with and I went to public, catholic and even a sports school for a little while
>>84533457
Frank spilled his whole side of the story at the first chance and was sure to say there was a problem with Greg.
>>84533420
Wow, this guy's pretty fucked in the head. I'm surprised he's capable of writing as well as he does
>>84533600
He does seem detached, like he's trying to create an identity with all of these labels and perceived life defining experiences.
It's honestly really irritating when people talk like that, like they're talking about everyone's understanding of their identity and their world view when he's clearly just talking about himself
>>84533420
Its like he's turned into mirror-universe Dave Sim.
>>84525348
That's vulgar?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fucking Americuck.
>>84530082
>cho is a pussy
>for choosing not to eat shit and walking out of a paying job
i'm genuinely interested in what you believe would've been the "brave" thing to do in this scenario
>>84533535
>writer vs variant cover artist
I wonder who's more important.
>>84525387
>>84525434
These
>>84533708
Cho is also brave because he came out to set shit straight to prevent other people from taking the blame in this debacle,
If I read this correctly Cho kept it to himself, doing his own thing until Bleeding Cool start sniffing shit.
>b-but muh whiny artist that I don't like because anons keep posting about him
>>84530159
>>84530173
100% I'd have walked too.
Not only is being micromanaged by a non-editor/artist incredibly annoying but an incompetent editorial that allowed that to happen is just ridiculous.
Rucka can eat a shit
>>84533420
This beta male shit is out of hand
>>84525348
I'm not an autistic child like CHo
>>84525348
Anything for Cho
>>84529428
I would too if I had a monkey hitting me in the back constantly.
>>84533420
This is what happens when you stop treating mental issues as mental issues
>>84525348
Y'know, this ain't the first time Rucka has gotten someone fired. As I recall, I believe Rucka got Hughes fired from the WW covers during his first run on WW.
I'm sure there's others, too.
>>84530173
>quietly stepped off until Bleeding Cool gave me little choice but to respond. They caught wind that there was some discord in the Wonder Woman office over my covers and was about to cast negative light on the wrong people. So I went public yesterday and set the story straight, correctly naming Greg Rucka as the source of the problem before the wrong information was published.
B-but Cho is supposed to be a baby throwing a tantrum
>>84531263
I watched the movie and thought it was pretty boring desu, the only good part is when the tough girl gets her fingers amputated, and that's a very niche fetish.
>>84525348
Amazing how easily /co/ can fall for Cho's victim play
>People still give a fuck about these two faggots
>People aren't drawing a 7 foot tall Wonder Woman forcefully undressing and dominating a young, inexperienced, wide eyed Steve Trevor
Get your priorities straight
>>84534294
>got hughes fired
as in Adam Fucking Hughes?
How?
>>84525600
this
two man babies get together, one runs away crying
>>84534319
If it's about sjw garbage, how could you not?
>>84534382
Because Rucka's always been a whiny bitch, even back then. Don't get me wrong 'cause I think he's a decent writer... but he's still an extremely pissy little bitch.
>>84534319
Cucka pls
>>84534413
How has DC not fired a writer that's starts so much shit among other workers? If this was any other workplace rucka wouldve gotten fired by now, unless he was the child or family of someone big at the company. Seems like an unnecessary hassle when there's tons of other thirsty writers that could do better and for less trouble, imo, all it's doing is alienating people.
I get if the art was shit or she was flat out nude with had rock nipples exposed but its just fucking ww in her costume, what more could that chink add to an already iconic set in stone costume that would send someone on a crusade over miniscule shit, if I want to oogle at ww I'll just look up porn of her, doesn't make sense.
>>84534526
No offense man but you're looking at this wrong: You're approaching DC (or Marvel or any other comic company) as an actual company... when they don't act anything close to that.
That has been one of my biggest problems with these companies in the last 16 years. It isn't the on-and-off poor quality of stories... it's the fact that these people don't run a company like you'd expect a company to be ran. They allow shit to be gotten away with that any other company wouldn't. They tolerate things no sane company wouldn't.
Why? Because they've flown under the fucking radar for so long.
>>84534526
They don't need to. He quits every other week
>>84534526
Rucka on Wonder Woman sells and Didio really wanted to mend fences after reneging on their gentleman's agreement regarding Earth One.
>>84534585
Well, correction: This has been a big problem since the dawn of these companies. But I never really started noticing it until 16 years ago.
>>84534585
What could make them start acting like a serious company?
>>84525348
Cho because it's none of Rucka's fucking business how an artist wants to draw a variant cover
if she was spread-eagle, licking her lips and tossing her hair whilst, then I could kinda get it, but she is actually doing an action pose
it's not Cho's fault that amazon's dress like that
>>84534717
Their corporate overlords (in the case of DC and Marvel: Warner and Disney) stepping in and restructuring the companies.
You run the risk of having both lines being censored as fuck and being as bland and generic as possible.
On the other hand, I ain't gonna lie to you: there would still be problems. There's always problems with companies. Well, mostly.
I give Valve credit: They're a bunch of tree-hugging hippies who makes games and run a distribution platform that I'm not interested in but they cut out all of the bullshit that your typical company would experience.
>>84533420
Rucka confirmed Leatherface
>>84534526
Rucka is Jewish. This gives him carte blache
>>84530255
That is true.
/co/ loves to hear dirt and but always bashes the messenger. It never matter if it is justified in that talent was told one thing by management upon hiring than it became something else.
If Cho KNEW about this deal and still took it? Yeah he should probably muscle through it, but he wasn't told about it and its made his job that much harder. So he's justified in bailing and Richie Bleeding John caught wind of it so he felt he had to make a statement.
Everybody SHOULD have known Rucka had full control and if he did have an axe to grind about Cho's 'outrage' shenanigans he should have been up front.
>>84533648
Probably some self-loathing involved.
>>84534585
It's because they, especially DC, are a company made of artists that deals with artists rather than a soulless media conglomerate. It's also a small industry.
Cho is one of the very few western artists I like alot.
He Should do more self creations and less capeshit IMHO
>>84535022
Probably because he has that Asian blood flowing through his body, blend of east and west.
>>84533420
>I clearly have more testosterone flowing through me than most men need, and you can tell just by looking at me.
LOL
>>84525348
Rucka has to go. He is a raging sjw.
You know it's tru
>>84535241
Maybe he just means he's bald with awkward dense body hair
Why are people so obsessed with not wanting diana to be sexy anymore? Why can't she be sexy?
Not just rucka, but in general I see this obsession of constant trial and error with WW over her costume, they tone her down, it doesn't work, they go back and repeat with stumbles across the way of both stages.
I never also understood the forced relation between ww and feminism as well when she's clearly a whole different beast and thinks and views the world on a very different light because where she was raised and her uniqueness over the other women in themyscira. hell even she doesn't get it, she's not against it but she's not radical about it like current state of feminism, well depending on the writer of course but you know what I mean.
>>84525482
>lesbian in a mans body
Is there anything to back this claim up?
>>84535390
Wondy is the most popular female super hero, so she has to be an ideal, like Supes and Bats. Problem is, with the way feminism is now, it's being doubled down into her character.
As for the constant costume changes, sexy leotards have basically all been phased out, sadly. Skirts are about as close as they come.
>>84535022
He can't do anything remotly original to save his life tho.
>>84535684
Like everything in this world
>>84535613
Sometimes I wish 300 was a famous high profile on going series like batman or supes so every time an sjw would bitch about wonder woman I could just throw these Spartans at the table and shut them up for a while before they start bitching again the next week.
>>84535390
>forced relation between ww and feminism
Wondy exists solely because of one man's feminist bdsm fantasy. She has no solid character beyond this, and her constant flip flopping over the years is a result of everyone trying to remake her and disregard the zanyness of her origin.
>>84535874
B-but power fantasy
>>84535390
Rucka clearly is cool with her being sexy.
His own comic has her emerging naked from a lake and tons of yuribait.
>>84535934
I thought the bdsm thing was a misconception
>>84534940
>It's because they, especially DC, are a company made of artists that deals with artists rather than a soulless media conglomerate. It's also a small industry.
You see the same thing in /tg/ related game companies, where everything is run by gamers instead of people with actual business sense.
Happens in a lot of "nerd" businesses, actually. It's partially what led to the big comic book crash.
>>84535977
It is the very core of her character. ww is a bizarre character that is not appropriate for or compatible with DC or even mainstream thought.
>>84535934
One man and two women in a polyamorous relationship.
>>84535973
Then why is he telling the artist to tone her down?
This logic...so confusing.
Is it because cho is not fond of sjws? Even then I still don't get it, all this kicking and screaming over a variant, maybe if it was the main cover I can understand but a variant? I'm starting to think he just flat out doesntnlike the guy and is just doing anytuingnhe can to remove him from the picture, which is pretty fucked up and selfish
>>84535724
Oh!
Well...
>>84535022
Cho is a great artist, but he needs a writer.
I would give my right nut for him to quit the cape-shit, team up with a good writer and do some good sci-fi.
>>84525348
You're just posting Cho's side so if I consider that in isolation I have to assume this is all that fat chink manlet cuck's fault for being such a massive cunt.
But I know Greg fucking Rucka is involved too, so most of this shitstorm is probably his fault.
>>84536131
Cho thinks it's personal.
Maybe he doesn't want her to be advertised as too sexy but is fine with it being inside the book.
Maybe he's just knows tumblrtards well enough to know they'll never look inside.
But who knows, Greg doesn't want to talk.
>>84536605
He's an artist. Most artists take criticism as personal. And in this case it probably is, with the SJW hate of Cho and all.
I wish I'd never read this thread, because I like Rucka's stuff but I didn't know much about his personal views. I've never read his DC stuff, but Queen and Country, WhiteOut and Lazarus I liked. It's sad gender politics have apparently fucked his brain, because as an artist who likes women and a writer who likes women he and Cho could have been a good team.
>>84536009
Uh, no. What led to the market crash was going full Jew with variant covers and shit.
I mean I know /co/ is full of corporate cocksucking libertarian retards but let's actually try to keep a foot in reality.
The funniest part of all this is that anyone actually believes this is censorship.
>>84536787
So the massive upswing in the appearance of specialty comic stores run by first time business owners with little to no business experience in no way led to the big bust in the comic distribution model of the time?
>>84533482
>"I have more testosterone flowing through me than most men need!"
>Is a skinny fat manlet
>Dat halfling proportions
Jesus fucking Christ, I shouldn't have expected differently.
>>84536605
And that's why Cho is more right than Rucka. If Rucka would be the grown up here and explain (Cho isn't exactly being a grown up either), then there would be no rational option than to side with Rucka. But he's being a little bitch, so I have no choice but to favor Cho.
>>84530966
He writes good comics, he just is an enormous faggot on twitter.
Really wish he weren't losing his shit over variant covers. Fucking variant covers, where your character might be hanging out with Harley or Flash or turn into fucking legos for no reason
>>84536241
he just need someone to make sense of his pages of hot chicks, robots & dinosaurs, what he needs is a videogame writer with no pretenses
>>84536931
Cho can't be right in this instance because his whole premise is built on a lie.
>>84537205
Holy shit that's a cool fucking drawing.
>>84531335
Naw. I like his work but he is a weeping leftwing pussy.
>>84536131
Maybe he got editorial control and in a case of management-itis didn't want any potential success to be attributed to something other than his direction, so was compelled to meddle.
>>84536856
It isn't censorship, the issue is more Rucka being a terrible employe to work with.
Also, faggot, why are you namefagging? Kill yourself.
>>84525348
Rucka is a SWJ faggot
nothing more needs to be said
>>84525348
Why is it necessary to literally show Wonder Woman's panties on the cover of a comic, variant or not? It's not about the amount of skin, it's about the fact that you can literally see Wonder Woman's underwear.
>Since you’re asking me a straight question, I’m going to answer honestly as possible from my point of view.
>Wonder Woman was my dream job at DC Comics. I love and respect the character very much. When I was invited by DC to draw the 24 variant covers for Wonder Woman, I was ecstatic. I was told that I had complete freedom on the variant covers and the only person in charge of me was the senior art director, Mark Chiarello, who I greatly respect. Win-win for everyone.
>Now the variant covers are handled by entirely separate editorial office than the rest of the books. I was given assurance that I would not have to deal with the Wonder Woman book writer or editor at all, and were told I would only be dealing with Mark Chiarello. So I came onboard and started working right away.
>Everything went smoothly at first. I turned in my first batch of cover sketches and Chiarello approved them, and I started finishing and inking them ASAP since these were biweekly covers and we had limited time. Then Chiarello started getting art notes from Greg Rucka ordering him to tell me to alter and change things on the covers. (Remove arm band, make the skirt longer and wider to cover her up, showing too much skin, add the lasso here, etc.) Well, Chiarello and I were baffled and annoyed by Greg Rucka’s art change orders. More so, since the interior pages were showing the same amount or more skin than my variant covers. (For example: Issue #2, panel One, etc.) I requested that Greg Rucka back off and let me do my variant covers in peace. After all, these were minor and subjective changes. And let’s face it, being told by a non-artistic freelancer what I can and cannot draw didn’t sit too well with me.
>>84537418
>Then things got ugly. Apparently unbeknownst to Chiarello and me, DC, for whatever reason, gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract. My promises of creative freedom were verbal. I think this is a case of complete miscommunication and things falling through the crack during the post-DC headquarter move to LA. Had I’ve known Greg Rucka had complete editorial control over the variant covers, I would have never came onboard Wonder Woman.
>Since we were on the same team with the same goal – making great Wonder Woman comics, Mark Chiarello and I tried to reason with Greg Rucka to back off and let me do the variant covers in peace. But Rucka refused and tried to hammer me in line. Things escalated and got toxic very fast. The act of a freelance writer art directing me, overruling my senior art director, altering my artwork without consent was too much. I realized after Rucka’s problems with my Wonder Woman #3 variant cover, my excitement and desire for the project have completely disappeared and I decided to bow out quietly after I finish my Wonder Woman #4 variant cover. (This was around end of May.) But DC wanted me to stay and finish out #5 and #6 covers to give them some time to find my replacement.
>So I stuck it out and tried to deal with the flagrant disrespect for six issues, and quietly stepped off until Bleeding Cool gave me little choice but to respond. They caught wind that there was some discord in the Wonder Woman office over my covers and was about to cast negative light on the wrong people. So I went public yesterday and set the story straight, correctly naming Greg Rucka as the source of the problem before the wrong information was published.
I feel like all the threads about this topic betray a fundamental lack of understanding about how work gets done and gets approved.
It is been obvious from the jump that DC comics wants Rucka on Wonder Woman
The person doing the cover art is doing Contract work for DC comics for covers.
If those covers get denied it is not censorship it is editing and getting notes from a company who is paying you to produce work for them.
If you don't want to take the feedback of the company who is paying you for your art then you will find yourself not working very long on that particular project.
It comes off as so incredibly immature to then try and run to Bleeding Cool with this to try and stir up outrage over something so small as not being able to take editor notes.
But of course it will all come down to CENSORSHIP and SJWs and whatever other buzzwords people want to throw onto it.
>>84531687
derp derp derp
>>84537205
>Go Limp
That's biologically impossible at the moment.
>>84537418
This reads like bullshit
If it was such his dream job as he claims he wouldn't be above editing what he submitted.
If not he is just a moron.
>>84537431
I hate SJWS with a firey passion, but this is an instance where Rucka should have final say on shit. I don't know why he is being such a little bitch, but the comic is good.
>>84537431
Observe this retard, everyone.
>>84537413
Everything I need to know about you I can deduce from you believing the word "literally" belonged in either of those sentences, let alone both.
>>84530173
>Greg Rucka as the source of the problem
But he isn't really the source of the problem. He's an ass, but the source problem is whoever gave him control over fucking variant covers
>>84537413
Why not?
I like superheroes wearing their undewear outside, like luchadores.
>>84537418
>>84537429
>This is going to get butchered by that cheesy colorist they keep pairing him withor his own coloring
Real shame.
Also dem Wonder Thighs.
>>84537470
Maybe he expected his Dream job to be a dream. He just wanted to draw cool pictures of Wonder Woman and since it was a Variants he could've done whatever. Greg made it not a dream job.
>>84537431
You know editing is censorship, right? It's just tasteful 90% of the time, the other percentage is the one people complain about and gets blown up by the media, like this one.
This though looks like it's mindless Censorship hiding behind Editing instead of the other way around.
Rucka's editing complaints seem pointless if his stuff inside the book is more risque than a variant cover, it shouldn't even bother him since its practically a reject cover but he still kept waving his lesbian dick around for multiple covers for the sole purpose of dick measuring.
>>84537761
No it isn't censorship.
It would be censorship if they went back and edited the covers that already came out.
Or if they changed something after it go out of the approval phase.
>>84525387
Don't let rageblindyou, anon.
>>84537413
It's not her underwear, it's the regular blue thing she wears.
>>84537431
>It comes off as so incredibly immature to then try and run to Bleeding Cool with this to try and stir up outrage over something so small as not being able to take editor notes.
That's not what happened >>84530173
Rich the Leech was going to throw someone under the bus, he made sure it was the right one.
>>84537804
By your standards, the Comics Code Authority never censored anything because all their work was done before anything was published.
>>84530173
DC was really retarded here. Jesus, it's such a bad idea to give the writer control over everything in a comic. Rucka is clearly a tool, but DC should've never given him this much control over WW.
>>84537894
By definition it wasn't
If you go into an agreement with something aware of the guidelines you wanting to do something outside those guidelines is not censorship
>>84537942
>it's such a bad idea to give the writer control over everything in a comic
Unless the writer is goodnot in this case though
>>84537869
Regardless it is still contract work that has to go through approval.
And none of the stuff I have seen that was being asked for seems
a) that crazy
b) that much of a change
And it still comes off as immature when you choose not to compromise from a contract position.
>>84537869
She's basically wearing a male Greek armor, only sometimes she has the battle skirt and sometimes she doesn't.
>>84537958
Peter David disagreed back in the 90s.
>What can any creative individual think of it? I think it stinks, is what I think.
>Pure and simple, I consider it censorship.
>I don’t care that the publishers helped put it together. I don’t care that it’s voluntary.
>I consider the very idea to be antithetical to the ability of not only writers and artists to produce the stories they want to tell, but to the ability of the publishers to publish what they want to publish.
>Ah, but they can ignore the CCA, you point out. Stan Lee did it decades ago. True enough. But the problem is that the publisher has to make the conscious decision that it’s going to drop the seal for that issue. The concern about making that decision creates a chilling effect. Does the publisher want the potential hassle? Generally, a publisher wants money from published comic books. Period. So the question becomes: Is the publisher willing to go through hassle to get that money? The answer is: Whatta you think?
>Publishers should have the right to publish whatever they want to, without having to second-guess themselves or try to please some lawyers. Lawyers are not editors. Lawyers are people who are conditioned to play things safe–and, if you’re trusting them to allow you to push the envelope, you can pretty much count on the envelope staying tightly sealed.
>This column prompted a letter from the head of the CCA describing how the Authority was, in fact, a wonderful organization, and how I was completely off base.
>In the meantime, they continue to crack down on, say, the depiction of blood in comics (it must be black, not red), language, mature themes, and other matters not to be inflicted on America’s youth.
>They remain censors.
>>84538036
Peter David is maybe not the first person I would go to for either Ethical or Moral support
and Besides that I disagree with him, so there.
>>84538058
I disagree with you, so there.
>>84538058
Pretty sure nearly everyone who worked on comics during the CCA era would tell you they considered them a bunch of censors. Aside from noted conservative Chuck Dixon, can you name any prominent comics figure who actually liked the thing?
>>84538073
pretty bold stance disagree with the definition of a thing
>>84538092
Censorship isn't about a disagreement or liking a thing.
>>84538125
Definition of a censor
>an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds.
Yeah, one can hypothetically bypass a censor in certain circumstances, but that doesn't make the censor not a censor.
>>84537804
technically any editing with the correct motive is censorship even if they haven't published it yet.
But that's more blunt definition not really the widely accepted spirit.
>>84537942
It was the only thing they could do to get him back most likely, and they were probably desperate to get someone people actuall liked
>>84537958
By definition yes it was.
Anything involving editing to remove items viewed as obscene is censorship. Even if it's inhouse and before the product is finished they're still prohibiting or suppressing media deemed offensive/immoral/obscene.
The Comics Code literally had lists of shit you couldn't do.
>>84538103
Since editing IS censorship whether you like it or not, controversial or not, I stand by it.
>>84525348
I think Rucka has an agenda and doesn't accommodate other views. I think Cho is a primadonna who uses "muh cencorship" as a noble excuse for continuing his livelihood as a purveyor of cheesecake.
>>84537413
I am beginning to feel the "panty" people are being deliberately obtuse.
>>84537991
Rucka didn't wanted to compromise and was saying that he would quit all the time.
>>84537254
Shut up Rucka
>>84538213
>>84538220
That is more a problem with the realities of business, you are going to back up the non-Contract employee over the contract one every time.
>>84538144
>>84538165
You guys might be right here but I feel that, I always tend to look at censorship from the outside looking in and not the inside looking out because every company has guidelines and practices.
capital C censorship I tend to save for things being removed once in print, that may be a strict definition but whatever.
>>84538213
I wonder if they go into a panic every time they see the leotard underneath a cheerleader's skirt.
>>84537431
I feel like your post betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of Frank Cho, the circumstances, or standard operating procedure for artists.
Frank Cho is a known quantity. We know what he is, so does DC. If you hire Cho, it means you want cheesecake. DC hired him and initially gave him free reign on the artwork, which is something he has earned as a long time professional. He reports to the art director, not the writer, not the inker, not the letterer.
Cho was professionally slighted. He decided to walk away from the project. He explained the circumstances when Rich approached him so that no innocent bystanders are hurt. This isn't whining, and until DC decides to refute his claims, there's no reason not to believe him.
>>84538306
I believe him, I call it whining because of his lack of ability to alter his cover slightly.
Also you can do cheesecake art and also take input and criticism from editors and your superiors on a project, those are not mutually exclusive things.
Also I agree that this seems like DC acted pretty boneheaded about putting talent together and it blew up.
#fireRucka
>>84538306
They moved him to Trinity, so yeah, they seem pretty happy about having him around drawing Wonder Woman.
>>84538371
>editors and your superiors on a project,
Except the person who was changing his art wasn't supposed to be his superior or even anywhere near him in the first place but DC fucked up.
>>84538400
#getedbenes
>>84538413
At the point where all this went down Rucka was 100000% his Superior on the book by everyone's statement involved.
>>84537537
Given all of the Rucka horror stories, there's a very good chance he could have bullied/tantrum'd his way into editorial control.
>>84538417
If he can write.
>>84538282
You do realize non-government rating groups are literally there to ensure they remove whatever material may kick them out of a specific market since lots of PG-13 movies would be better off as R, but they cut parts of the movie out to ensure they get the larger market. It's how self-rating systems work.
>>84538455
As a replacement of Cho I meant
>>84538441
If you read his open letter, Cho mentions they were hoping Rucka would drop it or stop with the drawing notes for changes that were mostly superfluous. Cho even mentioned DC lied by omitting the fact that Rucka had full control over Wonder Woman INCLUDING variants. The question remains if Rucka did the same thing to the non-Cho variants.
By the way, DC replaced Cho with Jenny Frison, who drew this cover. You think Greg's gonna freak?
don't you mean Greg (((((Rucka)))))
>>84538490
Yeah, but Rucka is the Problematic Male here.
>>84538507
>moe face
>tumblr nose
>she actually uses underwear under the silver coin bikini
Absolutely.
>>84538511
I want to stomp on the Snail.
Worst girl, even worse than Bat, Snake and Cat.
>>84538513
Don't care, I want WW Ed Benes variant covers
>>84538507
No because there's a good chance Greg just hated Cho and was pushing edits to spite him.
>>84538371
>I call it whining because of his lack of ability to alter his cover slightly.
He is an independent contractor. That means he is his own boss, and he has to protect his own brand and value. Having his work altered while slapping his name on it hurts his brand. Allowing the other party to make changes to the terms, even if it was a verbal agreement, devalues and weakens him. Frank Cho is not a jobber and shouldn't be treated as such.
>Also you can do cheesecake art and also take input and criticism from editors and your superiors on a project, those are not mutually exclusive things.
That's not the point. The art director let him make the call, then DC took it away from him after the fact. Cho had every reason, every right to walk away. The lack of professionalism and chain of command from the other side is damaging his business.
>>84538505
If the changes were so superfluous why not just change it?
>>84538507
>pommel doesn't line up with the sword properly
>sword doesn't line up with the hand
>>84538657
Because he doesn't have much time to ink the covers since he still has to get approval from who he thought was his supervisor before he does inking? He doesn't have a team to do the covers for him, like the interiors gets an inker, and colorist. Sometimes.
>>84538657
Because rightly or not Cho felt he was being professionally harassed.
If you worked at a restaurant and a customer kept sending a dish back to make superfluous changes, at some point you're either going to walk away or spit in his dish.
>>84533440
Prove it.
>>84538400
rucka can leave right this second and DC would be the one to suffer more. they aren't gonna do shit to him.
>>84537431
No. Art Directors have the final say on art.
Rucka is a little bitch who over stepped his bounds.
Having a non-artist trying to have the final say above the senior art director is bullshit for any firm.
>>84538921
Shut up, faggot.
Faggot.
>>84538611
>He is an independent contractor.
not when he's working for the big two, which is what he was doing with these variants.
when he's doing his freelance shit he can make a 100 OUTRAGE covers and no one can stop him. that's being an independent contractor/freelancer. but when he's working on variants for DC, there are rules to follow. the free reign to do whatever he wanted was only a verbal agreement by his own admission with the art director. if he got the agreement in writing and signed, then Rucka couldn't do anything. the art director he worked for was an idiot to not get it secured in print, because that left Cho vulnerable.
honestly this is more DC's fault than anyone else. they should have worked with Rucka and Cho and make them agree to play nice to each other's standards.
>>84539042
mad because it's the truth asshole? rucka is a big enough name that he'll never hurt for work from the Big Two if he asks for it, and he has been comfortably living off his self-published stuff for the last few years.
DC wants Wonder Woman to be a big name right now. It's her 75th anniversary as a character and her movie is slated to come out next year with major buzz. They need a big name to do her comic, especially after putting a hack like Meredith Finch on it for so long. Rucka was a no-brainer to bring sales in and it makes sense that they want him to be happy.
>>84537431
>I feel like all the threads about this topic betray a fundamental lack of understanding about how work gets done and gets approved.
>Literally the post above this, Cho explains how work gets done, who he was supposed to be reporting to and what the hierarchy he agreed to before working was.
>>84539056
It wasn't the art director he got the verbal agreement, it was with DC's editors since they omitted the fact that Rucka had editorial clout over the entire book. Cho was pissed that they didn't tell him until after Rucka started sending him notes on what to change the VARIANT covers, when he doesn't have that much time to make them, ink them, and color them, since he's the only one working on them.
>>84539124
my bad, but my point still stands. i feel for cho, it can't be easy meeting strenuous demands of a bi-weekly book while being told to change shit so often, but DC was in the wrong for leaving him vulnerable.
>>84538371
If the edits are really as slight as you're claiming then why shouldn't Rucka,
who is the only reported complainer and not DC as a whole,
and who SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE CHANGES
not let them go? They're just slight edits, right?
>>84525348
This reminds me of William Goldman's theory of "The Muscle." On every project, someone is The Muscle who has the power and the clout to give the project its final form. Sometimes it's the producer, sometimes it's the writer, sometimes it's the star.
Rucka appears to be The Muscle here. He's not technically in charge of the comic, but because he's a big name and DC really wanted to get him, and also because he has leverage (he can always quit and still make a living), he has more power than Cho, so when they clash, Rucka wins.
It's not about who's right or wrong, it's about who has the clout.
>>84539056
Hate to be a pedant, but Cho is absolutely an independent contractor in this. It's work for hire, and he's not on a payroll. That's all that means.
