Around the time Adventure time and Regular Show came it, it felt as if i couldn't relate to the annoyance and lout sounds coming from the screen.
I decided to watch the older shows, but they weren't as funny as i remember.
Steven Universe looks fucking awful and i just couldn't get into Star Vs.
Turbo Plaza and possibly 12 Forever look like they have taken everything wrong with early 2010's cartoons and amps them up to 11.
Do you really stop caring for children's show at a certain age or have the shows devolved to a mild distraction? Im 22, but i honestly stopped caring at 18.
then what are you doing here
>>84523934
THAT! That is the reason.
If I ever wanted to make a successful show. I just need to do is get a shit-load of FOTM baits and gay shit. And /co/ or tumblr will eat that shit up.
>>84523954
COMICS and cartoons, lad, but i've even lost most interest on those too.
>>84523934
Adventure Time is the only western cartoon I keep up with anymore, but I understand why people don't like it.
Korra season 1 & 2 broke my spirit. I watched all of Korra season 3, but I can't bring myself to finish S4. I've more or less migrated over to /a/ and love the fuck out of the seasonal shows that happen all the time.
>>84524168
I lost interest in f/a/gnime way before cartoons, it's all the same shit
>>84524805
How old are you?
>>84523934
i lost hope in the 00s
i got it BACK in 2010 with adventure time and all of its ilk
>>84523934
when this hit the airwaves
I don't think "a bad era of cartoons" exists
The first cartoons that I watched that I considered downright awful wereCode Lyoko, High High Puffy Amy & Yumi, Avatar the last airbender, and Ying Yang Yo
/co/ckbois are going to eat me alive, I know
>>84524168
It was around when Korra's S1 airing that i realized how much i no longer cared.
>>84524966
shit bait
wow so much bad taste in this thread... your idea of a good cartoon must be something like pulp fiction
I just mostly watch adult swim cartoons now days.
>>84523934
I never lost it. There's good shit and bad shit. Same as it ever was.
Every episode I've seen of Adventure Time, I've loved, but I've only seen like 20 or so.
How much of it is relationship drama bullshit? I havent seen any of that but it seems like people rag on it for that. I'd like to get into the show but don't want it to be nothing but that.
>>84524966
I understand what you mean. Grew up with stuff like Dexter's Laboratory, PPG, Spongebob, all those oldies plus all the other new cartoons that popped up as the years passed by. I didn't like most of the series I watched, they were all mostly just time wasters for me. There would be a few episodes I'd like, though, but nothing I'd really enjoy rewatching. Honestly, I enjoy modern day cartoons more now, but my feelings haven't really changed. I like some episodes more than others, and I don't like that many series.
What I find equally enjoyable to watching, though, is just discussing the setting and story with some people here. Adds a bit more mileage to my enjoyment of a series.
>>84524966
>Rewatch Code Lyoko out of nostalgia.
>Every character is either stupid or a bland emo.
>Every episode follows the same story.
>The voice acting is ear-grating.
oh my car
>>84523934
Half-seasons.
Like when Cartoon Network started showing 1 new episode and one rerun on half-hour blocks of certain shows..
I never lost hope in cartoons because ever since I was a kid there have ever only been one or two shows on the air at a time that I like a whole lot and a lot I don't like
I guess the time with the most shows I liked at a time would have been the late 90s/early 00s, but since then it was a steady one or two I like and hate the rest.....
Then the Hub happened and I had a few I liked once again with Transformers Prime, Dan VS, MLP FIM, and LPS....then all of those shows got cancelled aside from MLP FIM, so now that is the only show I like
>>84525426
Very recently I haven't watched cartoons in months. I've kinda lost all interest in spending my time watching these shows.
They are all so shitty and I miss the day when I could like them without getting to cynical.
Ever sence LOK was made I've just felt such a lack of needed to even watch cartoons it was so awful. It's stained what used to be a hobby I enjoyed.
>>84524805
>it's all the same shit
It's more varied than live action TV and there's many different kinds of shows every season.
>>84523934
After the early 90's. Batman, Ren & Stimpy, Rocco's Modern Life, Doug, Thundercats, Transformers, Voltron, Gargoyles, etc. set an impossibly high bar and it's all been downhill from there with few exceptions.
>>84523934
Because you never had a genuine interest in cartoons in the first place.
>>84523934
>>84530035
>>84530049
What does the 18th century have to do with anything? Today the situation has been reversed.
>>84530049
>>84523934
>Around the time Adventure time and Regular Show came
Yup. It was then that it became obvious people have no standards.
>>84530070
Please take me into your wildes heer mein Fuhrer. All is forgiven. We need you again.
>>84530069
>What does the 18th century have to do with anything?
>>84530070
even today, I have no ideas what are the criteria for a "good" art.
>>84530130
You can't answer the question?
>>84523934
I already grew past my cynical phase when I was a teenager. I still enjoy cartoons. Find another hobby.
just
fuck everything
>>84530317
Cereal mascots have been changing since before you born.
>>84530385
I bet he doesn't even know about the Cookie Crisp Wizard.
>>84530317
>I'm mad because Lucky no longer looks the way he did when I was a kid
>>84523934
When /co/ started unironically enjoying SU. That's also the point when I lost faith in humanity as a whole.
>>84525662
What the fuck is this? Do you think this is fucking CBR Forums? Just stop.
>>84530436
Why is SU such cancer in your eyes? Why SU, and not Gravity Falls? Adventure Time? Not even that show about friendship and technicolor horses?
>>84530418
That's a perfectly legitimate complaint. Just like people who complain about new music, new technology, new fashion, etc.
>>84530035
Was cherry picking the same back then too?
>>84530499
I've never really seen those as legitimate complaints either unless an objective point was made about why a former version of something was, in some way, better and not just more familiar to the person complaining.
>>84530498
>Not even that show about friendship and technicolor horses?
You mean My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic? The only other truly bad show you mentioned is Adventure Time, which I blame for starting this terrible new wave of cartoons. Unlike AT and SU, the other shows you listed never try to be more than they are. They just have one goal, and stick with it.
AT and SU are pretentious when they aren't catering to toddlers and hipster college kids. They want to be deep by sprinkling "lore" here and there, or they add relationship drama. Because that's what cartoons for kids needs. Relationship drama. And that's not even getting into the fandoms. Jesus Christ.
>>84530542
Can you objectively prove all new things are better?
>>84523934
Never... I still very much enjoy cartoons and will continue to enjoy Steven Universe and reruns of Aqua Teen and Sealab with the same enthusiasm I had for Dragonball Z and Dexter's Laboratory growing up.
The new pokemon seasons were also good. Haven't tuned back into it for a while though. I also enjoyed Seven Deadly Sins.
Now, if they made something like Ed, Edd, and Eddy for this day and age, I'd watch the hell out of that too.
>>84530035
jesus man, you pick cartoons spanning over 30-40 fucking years, then you wrangle up everything made in the last 5?
Talk about biased data sets.
>>84530611
DBZ, Pokemon and SDS aren't cartoons.
I didn't because I'm not a moron like you who assumes their taste is how things should be.
>>84530640
Yes they are.
>>84523934
>>84530658
They're anime.
>>84530594
In terms of technology and things that serve a nonsubjective purpose, yes unless they are just a step in the wrong direction. In terms of subjective things like the quality of cartoons, I'd accept any justification for why something in the past was superior, if only in the eyes of the person making the argument. It just feels like "things aren't the way I knew them and that's bad" doesn't feel like a valid enough of a complaint. Just give me one reason why you feel that way and that's good enough for me. I guess objective was the wrong word to use there.
>>84530631
I was considering make a collage of Hannah-Barbera sameface but I'm too tired/lazy to work that hard for a counterpoint.
>>84530671
You're splitting hairs here.
>>84523934
Transformers Animated did it for me, I just knew it was all over after that.
>>84530685
So in other words, you can't prove it.
Thanks for confirming.
>>84530706
>Hannah-Barbera sameface
Try doing that with more than one company, fag.
>>84530671
If they so much as aired Dexter's Laboratory in Japan, most people would call it an 'anime'
It's literally a blanket term for all cartoons there.
>>84530671
Anime are cartoons.
>>84530577
>pretentious when they aren't catering to toddlers and hipster college kids. They want to be deep by sprinkling "lore" here and there, or they add relationship drama. Because that's what cartoons for kids needs. Relationship drama. And that's not even getting into the fandoms. Jesus Christ.
Yeah Teen Titans sucked, I'm glad they remade it though
>>84530716
Splitting hairs? They're completely different kinds of animation and completely different industries.
>>84530738
The Japanese usage of the term is different from ours, and you're making a semantic argument.
>>84523934
Never. There's always room to hope.
>>84530720
I never said all new things are better in the first place, so I don't know what you want me to prove or confirm. You're welcome anyway.
>>84530145
Art that is pleasing to Jews. That's kind of why Hitler was mad, you know?
>>84530772
>completely different kinds of animation and completely different industries
So if I set a Disney animated film like the Lion King next to a 90s TV series like Dexter Laboratory, one would be a cartoon and the other not, right?
>>84530863
We were talking about anime vs. cartoons.
>>84530863
I'm trying to wrap my head around this absurd post. But I just can't.
This has to be bait.
>>84530875
Yes, but what makes an anime not a cartoon? Are they not both animated pieces of media? My post is calling into question the idea they are different by animation style alone because there are several different styles that would be called a cartoon all the same.
>>84530910
>Yes, but what makes an anime not a cartoon?
The region of origin. Japan. The fact that a large number of anime begin as manga, yet another subgenre exclusive to Japan.
Consider why we have /a/ and /co/ on this website, rather than simply /cartoon/ or some other bullshit. Then realize how stupid you sound.
>>84530945
Is anime the only animated media that is considered separate because of its place of origin? I understand why there is a cultural difference, but this whole discussion came about because one anon lumped in DBZ with his childhood cartoons and I honestly don't see a big enough difference to say that it does not count.
>lost hope for cartoons
I gained hope when Adventure Time started airing but then immediately lost it because of ATs success.
We now live in a post AT animation industry where everything is this quirky adventure humor style cartoons that are required to have overarching plots/feels to rake in adult audiences as well as kids
Also don't like how channel/network branding degraded. Late 90s/early 2000s Cartoon Network dripped with style. Now its just bland or nonexistent
2007-2010
>Decline of Toonami with TOM 4 and Naruto filler hell
>No more ATLA in 2008
>Shows like George of the Jungle, Total Drama, Chop Socky Chooks, and the Mighty Bee start airing
>Original Ben 10 is replaced with alien force
>Zombie Spongebob full force
>Disney Channel pumps out bad sitcoms, CN real is born
>>84530910
They are totally, radically different approaches to animation and come from different cultures. The single thing they have in common is that they are both animation. Even if by cartoon we're talking about any and all Western animation, the differences are still enormous.
>>84530979
>Is anime the only animated media that is considered separate because of its place of origin?
It's the only one with its own terminology, yes.
>>84530945
Toonami is on Cartoon Network, where is your god now?
>>84523934
>Steven Universe LOOKS fucking awful
Not even gonna try it huh?
>>84531017
True, but what would we call a cartoon from China (that wasn't bootleg Western animation)? Or Korea? Russian cartoons always seemed pretty exotic to me. The cultural differences are there, sure, but animation can and has been approached several different ways even within the same country and especially over the years. Hell, anime was born out of Western animation to begin with.
I'm not saying abolish the term anime, merge /a/ or /co/ or any other stupid shit. I just think the difference between anime and millions of other things we would comfortable label 'cartoon' is just semantics.
I feel like Mystery Inc. was the last hurrah for my generation.
>>84530145
It makes you feel something.
>>84531017
Is Code Lyoko or what ever an anime? It's a different approach to animation from a different culture
>>84531068
Anime is a completely different system, culture and industry of animation than anything else.
>>84531110
No it's not an anime.
>>84531068
>anime was born out of Western animation to begin with.
And now Western animation often emulates aspects of anime in some contemporary cartoons. It's all just art, from different parts of the world, influencing and being influenced from each other. Cartoons and anime are both animations, the only difference is the latter is from Japan the former is literally every where else in the world.
Well I'm 25, and I haven't lost hope for cartoons. I'm really enjoying star vs. though, so perhaps I'm a manchild or something.
>>84531130
>the only difference is the latter is from Japan the former is literally every where else in the world
Do explain how the only difference between these two is where they were made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLvZ1rzHDSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7Rg_WiXYI
>>84524894
Who pays five dollars for a pizza slice?
>>84531127
But if a cartoon can have a completely different system, culture, and industry of animation, and even country of origin from another thing also considered a cartoon...
I still feel like you're not making a point as to why anime is not a cartoon, but only repeating why cartoons from Japan are referred to by their own name.
>>84531188
I just told you: anime is a completely different system, culture and industry of animation than anything else. What more explanation do you need?
>>84531175
There are several, but none which change the definition of a cartoon. You could easily compare Family Guy to Rugrats and there'd be a million differences, just no longer the country of origin.
>>84524966
The only one that's probably "bait-worthy" is avatar, but I didn't really like it much either.
Rest of those are pretty much agreed upon to be shit to mediocre at best.
>>84531178
that ain't no regular slice, it's a fag slice with semen filled crust
>>84531206
I wasn't talking about changing the definition of cartoon. I just illustrated that cartoons/cartoon-derived animation and anime are two completely different things.
>You could easily compare Family Guy to Rugrats and there'd be a million differences
I am not comparing individual works.
>>84531204
For you to clarify or make a counter point to mine, not just repeat yourself.
>>84531229
What is it that needs to be clarified or countered?
>>84531226
You're comparing two very different individual works in that post.
>>84531241
They're examples meant to illustrate the point.
>>84523934
I'm sorry you're proud about becoming a dickhead. I hope nobody creative ever has to rely on you for any kind of support.
>>84531237
Why Japan's culture and structure of industry and animation style makes its animated media not a form of cartoon, albeit referred to by a specific genre name because of those Japanese exclusive traits.
If a CGI series from France, a film from any era of Disney, a black and white short without dialogue, a stylized geometric TV series from the US, an abstract surrealistic short from East Europe, or any other number of examples with different industries, styles, and cultural origins can all be called cartoons... why is it no longer a cartoon when Japan does it?
>>84531220
You're right, they're better off with plain white sauce.
>>84531302
>Why Japan's culture and structure of industry and animation style makes its animated media not a form of cartoon
Anime has nothing in common with cartoons. They're completely different from each other. It has little in common with American and Western animation in general.
Character design, animation, cinematography, backgrounds, sound, music, story conventions, character archetypes, genres--these are all different. The foundations and basic assumptions of cartoon animation and anime are different. The way the industry works is different. The media ecosystem that anime is part of is different. The fan culture is different. The culture, language and society of Japan and by extension anime are different.
>>84531342
Not gonna address that second part of the post, huh?
>>84531342
Character designs, animation, cinematography, backgrounds, sound, music, story conventions, character archetypes, and genres can all be different in cartoons too but they're all still cartoons anon.
>>84531371
I just did.
>OP: When did you lose hope for cartoons?
>100 posts later: What defines anime vs a cartoon?
>>84531379
Not really, but we're not going anywhere with this. Good night.
>>84531377
I am talking about the broad, fundamental differences between anime and Western animation, specifically American animation.
To take animation and filmmaking as an example, pic related is the default style for American shows. It shows up again and again and again, and you can also see it when you look at old cartoons. Anime doesn't follow this cartoon animation convention at all, and derives its look from cinema instead.
Another difference is how anime covers such a vast spectrum of stories while American animation is almost fully stuck in the children's zone.
>>84531411
Yes really.
>>84530719
Why didn't you like animated? Was it the art style?
>>84531422
Again, you're focusing too much on one style in one country for your definition of cartoon. You have refused this entire time to address how different cartoons can be from one another in the US alone, to say nothing of the cultural differences in the cartoons originating overseas. All you've proven is Japan is different and thus their cartoons are different, not that their cartoons aren't cartoons.
>>84531486
Cartoons don't have much differences between each other. American animation on the whole has more differences but it's still visibly derived from cartoons to this day, and is still completely different from anime.
>All you've proven is Japan is different and thus their cartoons are different
What? They don't even make cartoons.
>>84530070
Fixed.
>>84530049
Fixed.
>>84523934
I only care for my own ideas at this point.
>>84530499
No, it's not. With this it's a much bigger deal then the UK leaving the European union.
>>84530754
If they were pre-synced and animated on 2s they will be cartoons. But they're not.
>>84531175
Fixed.
USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QV87XZ3RYw
Japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQrKZcYtqg
>>84531342
>Anime has nothing in common with cartoons.
>>84531669
>If they were pre-synced and animated on 2s they will be cartoons. But they're not.
So... now you're just changing what the term 'cartoon' means as you see fit...
So food in Japan is no longer food? Just because the culture and technique used, is different?
>>84531253
You don't have one.
With all due respect please go back to school.
>>84524805
Yeah it is kinda true but i still enjoy every season some shows.
>>84533320
>>84531669 is not my post.
>You don't have one.
You are lying.
>With all due respect please go back to school.
Take your own advice.
>>84533366
I at least know what the word 'cartoon' means.
>>84524168
This for me. I guess it just that cartoons dont have things what i can still found in anime.
>>84523934
interesting debate, to be honest
>>84533380
What makes you think I don't?
>>84531315
White sauce? But that makes your teeth go gray
Why are you posting so many of these?
>>84525426
WRONG. When I was a kid cartoons were objectively the best. Its just a coincidence that all the non shit cartoons came out when I was a child and wanted cartoons consistently.
But now that I'm older and more jaded and cynical because I need too distance myself from childhood mibdsets being that I'm in my early twenties and wish to establish myself as an adult, everything seems lame or annoying...this clearly means overall cartoon quality has gone to shit. No other explanation really.
>>84531018
Loanword from France, though our use of it specifically refers to Japanese animations while theirs is just short for animation.
>>84533522
It's not from French, it's from English. Anime is short for animeishon/animeeshon, or animation.
>>84533526
What the fuck are you trying to do exactly?
>>84533514
trying to have a boad spectrum, i'll stop with this one
>>84533534
attempting to compare anime and cartoons
>>84533546
I already posted representative examples here: >>84531422
People who claim anime aren't cartoons are simply desperate weaboos who can't accept their precious anime is the same form of entertainment as wreck it Ralph.
Look up te definition cartoon. What anime is falls under that. That's it. Any differences do not change that simple categorization regardless of anime fans personal feelings. This isn't what I believe...it's simply what is. A cartoon is not defined by it's cultural underpinnings, inspiration, methodology , methods of production, subject matter, or style. None of them have any bearing on whether or not something is a cartoon no matter how much you claim they do.
And sorry folks definitions mean something. You choosing to ignore them and claiming language changes doesn't undo their meaning and make your personal feelings right. Sorry...that's language.
>>84533616
Again, anime and cartoons are two totally different kinds of animation with virtually nothing in common. There is no basis for claiming they are the same thing.
>A cartoon is not defined by it's cultural underpinnings, inspiration, methodology , methods of production, subject matter, or style.
That's exactly how cartoons are defined.
>>84533643
>That's exactly how cartoons are defined.
No that is how You personally choose to define cartoons. You are wrong. Go post a definition of cartoon that mentions these distinctions with a source and I'll concede.
>>84533700
>muh source
>muh blind obedience to authority
I have logically deduced that cartoon does not mean what some dictionary definitions claim it does. Even dictionaries can get some things wrong, they are just written by people.
The Wikipedia articles for Ghibli, Disney, American animation, anime, manga and comics have very noticeably different uses of cartoon that would not exist if cartoon simply meant animation.
People who hate anime go out of their way to always call it cartoons and children's cartoons, and when you tell them cartoons and anime are different things they'll say something like "you just don't want to admit you watch cartoons" or "you just want to make anime seem more sophisticated than it really is," clearly showing that cartoon is not just synonym for animation.
The animation produced in America that people referred to as cartoons was of a certain kind. People weren't applying the term to the general concept of animation, they were applying it to the animation that they were watching. The association stuck.
>>84523934
You grew up, and just want to masturbate to cute cartoon girls. Happens to everyone here.
>>84533768
OH GOD ITS YOU AGAIN
The guy who doesn't believe in definitions or sources but uses Wikipedia as a fucking source.
>>84524966
The 00s were definitely a bad era
For most of everything
>>84523934
Around the late 2000's ever since the tween wave dominated all three iconic channels; Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, and Disney.
>>84533819
>OH GOD ITS YOU AGAIN
Is that supposed to be some kind of argument?
>The guy who doesn't believe in definitions or sources but uses Wikipedia as a fucking source.
Where did I use Wikipedia as a source?
>>84533875
And also, I've never said that I don't "believe in" definitions and sources. I am simply saying that a dictionary definition is not necessarily correct, as is the case here.
>>84533875
Dude I was in the last thread you were in there's no point in arguing what falls under the meaning of a word with someone who just makeshift up their own definitions of those words.
Have fun tho.
>>84533891
Again, I have logically shown that cartoon does not mean what some dictionary definitions say it means. Do you have counter-arguments to that don't involve blind obedience to authority?
When Flash became the new medium and it was clear that it was being done for lazy purposes.
>Do you really stop caring for children's show at a certain age
No, Adult Swim just rehashed popular old cartoons to appeal to college students for shits and giggles.
>>84530768
They didn't 'remake' it you ridiculous manchild. It's a spin off show with no bearing on the old one.
I still enjoy cartoons for children
but that's okay because I'm a girl, no one would ever give me weird looks for it
>>84533920
No you haven't. You've conflated two different definitions of cartoon in order to exclude anime, which is disingenuous to the origins of the medium. Anime has evolved stylistic differences over time which makes it distinct from the animation in other countries, but in the end it all comes from the same source.
In short, all anime are cartoons, not all cartoons are anime.
>>84533980
Anime is excluded by virtue of not having anything to do with cartoons.
>Anime has evolved stylistic differences over time which makes it distinct from the animation in other countries, but in the end it all comes from the same source.
Anime doesn't really have the same source. Anime is derived from manga, and it was designed from the start around the limitations of TV production. And in any case the fact remains that anime is radically different from cartoons and American animation at large, so even if they had the same source it wouldn't make any difference.
>>84531422
>fully stuck in the children's zone
>posts sixteen examples of Western cartoons, six of which are aimed at adults and four more of which are intended to make young hipster parents think they have the cool kid at school
And the chart didn't even have South Park or Venture Bros.
>>84533616
Anime are cartoons, but I also submit that when westerners say "anime" they are not referring to Korra, Wakfu or Gravity Falls.
>>84534072
>fully stuck in the children's zone
Jesus christ. This is what I actually said:
>almost fully stuck in the children's zone
You know that's what I said. You intentionally misrepresented me. The image (which I didn't make) also has nothing to do with that statement; it was for demonstrating the look of cartoon animation.
And the thing about shows like Family Guy is that while they are indeed for adults they are also comedies, and that's what makes them acceptable for adult consumption.
>>84534109
>Anime are cartoons
This is wrong, as already explained.
>>84534040
>they're completely different because I say so
>even if they were related in the past it doesn't matter because they're different because I say so
There are differences, but that doesn't mean they are unrelated. It's mostly cosmetic. Both rely on simplified, exaggerated caricatures, both create the illusion of motion, both use the medium to tell narrative stories. There's no value in trying to create two completely separate categories they way you are, rather than accept the notion that anime is a subset of a larger medium.
>>84534126
Comedy and drama aren't oil and water. The strict delineation in nearly all media is due to comedy being easier to create for a lower common denominator and drama being difficult to keep consistently compelling when juxtaposed to comedy without resorting to the use of supersaturated melodrama.
Also, childhood is fleeting and passes in phases. There are more children's cartoons because most of them don't last very long, then they have to be replaced or repurposed to appeal to a new batch of children. Most of the longest-running and most successful cartoon series are intended for people over eighteen. Teens and tweens also happen to find them appealing for the same reason they find underage drinking, smoking and fucking appealing.
>>84534183
>they're completely different because I say so
I've explained at length why they're different, and it should be self-evident that they're very different. If you look at Donald Duck and Joker Game and conclude they're the same thing, you legitimately must have some kind of neurological disorder.
>even if they were related in the past it doesn't matter because they're different because I say so
They weren't really related. There was Japanese animation before Astro Boy, and Disney was even popular, but Astro Boy was based on manga and was built around the limitations of TV. It wasn't based on cartoon shorts and features.
>It's mostly cosmetic.
Almost everything about them is different. The character design, the animation, the cinematography, the background art, the visual language, the sound design, the voice acting, the music, the story conventions, the story genres, the character archetypes, and serial vs. episodic. Cartoons and anime have totally different conceptions about what animation is, who it's for and how it should be made. The way the anime industry operates is also different from how the American animation industry operates. The media ecosystem that anime is part of doesn't exist in America. There are many other differences besides these. And virtually no similarities.
>Both rely on simplified, exaggerated caricatures, both create the illusion of motion, both use the medium to tell narrative stories.
By this logic bicycles and trucks are the same thing. By this logic a stick figure is the same thing as a photorealistic landscape painting. Having a few extremely broad, vague similarities like "both create the illusion of motion" means they don't actually have similarities at all.
>There's no value in trying to create two completely separate categories they way you are
The categories create themselves.
>rather than accept the notion that anime is a subset of a larger medium
Anime is a subset of animation. Not a subset of cartoons.
>>84534265
I'm saying that Family Guy is acceptable in America because it's comedy. Because you aren't supposed to take it seriously. It doesn't even have any aesthetic value.
An adult taking animation seriously and insisting it's meant to be taken seriously and is intended for adults is taboo. That's when people get hysterical and tell you to stop watching "children's cartoons."
>>84534310
Animation in the traditional sense intended to appeal to adults has been superseded by high definition formats and modern makeup, CGI and post-production. Adults still find guys in ridiculous outfits spewing one-liners straight out of a comic book beating the shit out of each other entertaining, they just expect it to look good.
And people only get hysterical over adults watching cartoons on the internet or if they're compensating for something.
>>84534283
Anime is a subset of cartoons, which is a subset of animation.
Almost all of those differences you listed are cosmetic, you even quoted me on that. We are talking about a MEDIUM, not about genre or style or format or tone or anything else.
Bicycles and trucks are both VEHICLES. Cave paintings (stick figures) and realistic landscape paintings are both PAINTINGS. Anime and (American) cartoons are both CARTOONS.
To preempt your inevitable reply, I include that prefix because it is implied. Like with any other media, when referring to something made in our own country (assuming you are American, which I understand is not necessarily the case so I will specify my own nationality here for clarity) you don't need a different, unique word that puts every other country's creative output into its own box. This may be where your confusion is coming from. We say movie or film, and if it's foreign we simply tack that country before it if we need to be specific (German movie, French film). Nobody ever tries to argue a French film is not a movie because it differs drastically in tone, style, and method of production than an American film. We say literature, we don't need a new word for every country that ever wrote prose just because the formatting is different. We say painting, we don't need a new word just because the subjects, methods and social contexts differ drastically. We can be more specific and divide them all into categories upon categories, but in the end it is valuable to recognize their commonality.
>>84533824
There were a few good ones that came out in the 00's, like Ben 10, Robotboy and stuff like that, but yes, for the most part, it was a mistake, nothing but trash.
I think you guys, especially animefags, are mixing the definitions of the word “cartoon”, which stands for both "animation" and "western animation". I know there this convention that divides the two animations because of their own ongoing cultural divergence. However, considering anime was actually inspired by western animation in its early days, I personally think there shouldn't be a line dividing Japan's animation from the rest of the world.
Just look at the "cartoon" that is Legend of Korra and the "anime" that is Osomatsu-san. Shouldn't Osomatsu-san be considered a cartoon because of its cartoonishness and Korra be considered an anime? Can’t we just say there isn’t a real difference design-wise and they’re substantially the same?
Imagine a world where there's no such thing as that line that isolates japanese animation from western animation.
>>84534448
Anime is a subset of animation. Cartoons are also a subset of animation.
>Almost all of those differences you listed are cosmetic
Surely the differences here are merely cosmetic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dihJ1w48Jh0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7plEDcWy0Oc
Maybe EVERYTHING is just "cosmetic." That way it's easier to pretend that anime and cartoons are the same thing with a different coat of paint.
>Bicycles and trucks are both VEHICLES.
>Cave paintings (stick figures) and realistic landscape paintings are both PAINTINGS.
Yes. And they're also very, very different ones. Which was exactly my point.
>Anime and (American) cartoons are both CARTOONS.
Anime and cartoons are two different things.
>This may be where your confusion is coming from.
I am not confused about anything.
>Nobody ever tries to argue a French film is not a movie because it differs drastically in tone, style, and method of production than an American film.
Because the differences are negligible. Just like the differences between American and Japanese cinema are negligible.
>we don't need a new word for every country that ever wrote prose just because the formatting is different
Anime is so massively, fundamentally different from everything else and such a huge system and culture that it more than deserves its own name.
>>84534635
>However, considering anime was actually inpired by western animation in its early days
Yes, there are connections between the two. But that doesn't change the reality that anime and cartoons (and American animation at large) are very, very, very different.
>I personally think there shouldn't be a line dividing Japan's animation from the rest of the world.
But it exists regardless.
>Shouldn't Osomatsu-san be considered a cartoon because of its cartoonishness and Korra be considered an anime?
Why do you people always bring up edge cases and then try to argue they disprove the existence of common differences between cartoons, American animation and anime? Korra isn't even an anime anyway.
>>84530070
>>84530145
I don't know what's good art, but I can recognize Egon Schiele's art anywhere.
Adolf's are indistinguishable from what you'd find hanging in a men's stall of a mid-range restaurant.
I don't know if that should matter, but it did to art schools of the time, apparently.
>>84534846
Yes, those are cosmetic differences. Notice how the characters are not detailed, realistic humans but rather caricatures which we recognize as people? Notice how they use the same language of lines, color and exaggerated motion to create the illusion of movement and volume from two-dimensional images?
Different but inexorably related by their common usage and medium, respectively.
This is incorrect. I can say with absolute certainty that the differences you see between anime and cartoons exist in every medium and from every country with creative output, all of them changing and evolving as our cultures change and evolve.
It has it's own name, but it is still a type of cartoon. It is animation, yes, but so is stop-motion, 3D animation, and other methods. To be more accurate we must call it a cartoon.
>>84535073
Your "cosmetic differences" include character design, animation, cinematography, background art, effects, sound, music, acting and writing. So basically everything.
Those two examples are profoundly different from each other on very deep levels. They have totally different assumptions about animation and approach animation in totally different ways. If Kids on the Slope was live action instead, you'd never say they're the same thing, it would never even cross your mind. But since it's animated but otherwise executed exactly as live action would be, it's suddenly the same thing as the cartoon. Somehow.
>Notice how the characters are not detailed, realistic humans but rather caricatures which we recognize as people?
The characters in Kids on the Slope are semi-realistic. They have have realistic bodies and stylized heads. Their outfits are realistic and detailed.
>Notice how they use the same language of lines, color and exaggerated motion to create the illusion of movement and volume from two-dimensional images?
This is meaningless and brings us back to bicycles and trucks being the same thing.
>It has it's own name, but it is still a type of cartoon.
No, it's a type of animation. A cartoon is also a type of animation.
>>84535243
Yes. Please try to understand. Medium is a set of tools, literal and conceptual, used to create art. It does not dictate the content of the art, even if certain mediums lend themselves to certain types of art.
If Kids on the Slope was really identical to a live-action show, then why bother animating it at all? It's because the stylization conveys information by exaggerating certain features. You say they are semi-realistic as though that it helps your argument somehow, without understanding there are levels of exaggeration and caricature. What you call 'realistic' looking clothing is still heavily stylized, they have just done an excellent job of imitating the important things you notice about real clothes. Anime is not different from other cartoons, it is just sometimes more detailed.
![[FFF] Hibike! Euphonium - 02 [4C137C11].mkv_snapshot_05.53_[2015.04.16_05.22.14].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uwaKvJs.jpg "[FFF] Hibike! Euphonium - 02 [4C137C11].mkv_snapshot_05.53_[2015.04.16_05.22.14].jpg")
>>84535682
>Yes. Please try to understand. Medium is a set of tools, literal and conceptual, used to create art. It does not dictate the content of the art, even if certain mediums lend themselves to certain types of art.
I have no idea what you're talking about or what this has to do with anything I said.
>If Kids on the Slope was really identical to a live-action show, then why bother animating it at all?
There are reasons but they have nothing to do with what we're talking about. It is what it is.
>You say they are semi-realistic as though that it helps your argument somehow
Cartoon character design is not realistic. It's caricature and very often involves anthropomorphic animals and objects. Anime character design on the other hand is realistic aside from the stylized heads. This is just one of the many differences between cartoons and anime.
>What you call 'realistic' looking clothing is still heavily stylized
They're stylized in the same sense that real clothes might be stylized. Often they're not stylized at all, they're just what you'd find in the real world.
>Anime is not different from other cartoons
Anime is not cartoons.
>it is just sometimes more detailed.
It's consistently more detailed. Much more detailed.
>>84525629
I had the same conclusions when I was a kid
In fact I think I only watched Code Lyoko and Avatar to see if the characters fucked in the end
They kind of didn't
The Japs have perfected animation. I say we all get off this sinking ship.
>>84535855
If you don't understand what I'm saying you have no business trying to rewrite definitions you can't define.
>>84536185
>If you can't understand my rambling off-topic nonsense you can't talk about a subject that you're much more familiar with than I am
Ahaha.
>>84524894
ooh, a rare instance of the original without a price edit
>>84536229
If that's nonsense to you I weep for the future of the English language. Regardless, it's become very obvious that you just want to distance yourself from the label of 'cartoon' because it upsets your sensibilities, and any logical credibility you feigned to possess has disappeared. Feel free to have the last word.
>>84536344
Anime and cartoons are factually two completely different things. I have repeatedly shown that to be true, and your arguments to the contrary have been nonsense. You insist that Bugs Bunny and Perfect Blue have to be the same thing because it upsets your sensibilities if they're not.
>>84523934
I still like some modern cartoons but it's difficult for me to get into modern cartoons that are aimed specifically at children because it's kind of hard to relate anymore, also the growing influence of tumblr/SJW elements in modern cartoons has also taken me out of a modern cartoon more than once.
I think the main reason I just don't care as much is because the internet makes it so I can get access to any cartoon from any time in little time, so new cartoons have to do more/be of high quality to stand out. Whereas when I was a kid I didn't really know how to use the internet to get things for free.
>>84523934
It's a very personal thing. I guess you're just more mature than I am: I am 42 and I love quite a few cartoons.
>>84536066
I would not say that as much i like anime. I like how japan does their animation even if it is bit stiffy.
>>84535047
>but I can recognize Egon Schiele's art anywhere.
maybe because everything looks like the same shit with a new paint job
>>84536402
You've shown that based on your own personal definitions. Several others have replied to you and proved that they are not different things based on their personal definitions as well as the commonly accepted definition of the cartoon medium.
>>84538793
This has nothing to do with personal definitions.
These are objectively different things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAcXt-NOb1U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3yEGblTj8
These are also different:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrjxtNYhTCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMgpN7IxkzQ
Your opinion is not relevant.
>>84538993
Objectively, they are both animation in their own way.
Your opinion is not relevant.
>This has nothing to do with personal definitions.
>cartoon does not mean what some dictionary definitions say it means
If you're disagreeing with both a dictionary and everyone else in the thread on a definition, then it's your personal definition.
>>84539073
>Objectively, they are both animation in their own way.
Please tell me where I said or implied that one of them is not animation.
>Your opinion is not relevant.
I didn't state one.
>cartoon does not mean what some dictionary definitions say it means
Yes and I have proven that.
>>84538993
These are objectively different things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSL7bkzYk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSL7bkzYk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAWZ2Uz1yzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2BAeh8wZLI
None of which are anime, but are as different as anime is from american cartoons. They are still cartoons because it is the same medium, just as anime is. The fact that even when other anons present examples from outside the US you only keep comparing contemporary US cartoons to anime makes me think you're just too stupid to see beyond superficial differences.
>>84539114
There's no arguing with someone who is going to change the definitions of shit to make their point.
>>84539114
The fact that cartoon is a synonym of animation and anime is short for animation and yet you cannot accept that they are the same medium.
>>84539190
>These are objectively different things
Ok.
>The fact that even when other anons present examples from outside the US you only keep comparing contemporary US cartoons to anime
Almost all the relevant animation made in the West is made in America, and what I'm saying applies to other Western animation too, just maybe a little less.
>makes me think you're just too stupid to see beyond superficial differences
And here we go again with this "superficial differences" horseshit. You might as well claim the Eiffel Tower is only superficially different from a grass hut.
>>84539228
What have I changed?
>>84539270
>The fact that cartoon is a synonym of animation
I have disproven this.
>anime is short for animation
I never said it isn't.
>yet you cannot accept that they are the same medium
When did I say anime isn't animation?
>>84539114
Your opinion is that anime and cartoons are not the same medium because of cultural and technique differences. For some reason, however, all the cultural and technique differences in cartoons from around the world and throughout the century don't exclude them from being called a cartoon. This is an inconsistent opinion you have.
>>84539355
>For some reason, however, all the cultural and technique differences in cartoons from around the world and throughout the century don't exclude them from being called a cartoon.
Huh?
>>84539315
>>The fact that cartoon is a synonym of animation
>I have disproven this.
Yeah okay
>>84539388
I disproved it whether you like it or not.
>>84537641
This is not stiff.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/animaniacs-potty-emergency/81271404/
>>84523934
Its ironic you say that because Adventure Time along with that horse show we aren't allowed to talk about helped saved western cartoons from an untimely demise. Back when those shows started to air, every kids network in America was cancelling all their cartoons for live action sitcoms or shows about videogames to try and save their plummeting ratings. But then two little cartoons came along and saved us all. One was about a boy and his dog living in a strange world, the other about magical talkings horses showing that friendship is the most powerful kind of magic there is.
>>84523934
Is Lydia Deetz the GOAT cartoon goth?
>>84523934
You got old.
>>84523934
Spectacular Spider-man, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Young Justice, and several decent animated movie features were fun for me to watch and continue to give me hope.
It's not about the different companies putting out constant quality stuff that you enjoy - it's about being able to pick out some pieces on a yearly basis, and be surprised and delighted when something cool comes along.
I'm 47 years old. I watched Super Friends with its first season debut, my first video game was a Telstar Pong home game, and I've enjoyed sampling the best that's been made through the decades. I look forward with what's to come.
>>84547749
Forgot. If you were going to pin me down and forced me to pick just one animated series that captured my imagination, moved me emotionally, and genuinely thanked the creators for making it, it's Wakfu.
>>84523934
>Lydia feet
>>84531274
>beating a person while he's down
that's harsh..
>>84530070
holy shit i understand everything now...
I paint and draw just like Adolf Hitler...
Threads like these are always bothersome to me because it usually consists of cherry-picking and "I don't like it and thus, it's ruining an entire industry"
For one, the industry (more specifically television) is always changing, and as with any decade, there's absolute shit. Everyone heralds the 90s for being a great decade for cartoons, but nobody realizes that there was also absolute horse shit being produced during that time as well. (You just let nostalgia goggles get in the way)
Am I frustrated with Cartoons now? A bit. But I've learned to accept that the industry fluctuates constantly and has it's high and low points.
If you have a problem, make a pitch or something. Some studios are willing to hear pitches from outside of studios. I'm not saying this as a way of brushing you all off, I'm dead serious and highly encourage it. At least try and make cartoons "good again", /co/.
>>84534040
This is entirely wrong.
Anime has always had its roots in being similar to western animation since the black and white era of film as well as early Disney films.
Anime was derived from manga as a source material, especially since Astro Boy was the first televised anime. Osamu Tezuka made those workarounds to make production quicker since serialized TV animation was in its infancy in the 60s, and not so much because of its "roots in manga".
Is the work by students at Geidai not anime because it doesn't stick to what conventionally defines what "anime" looks like?
At the end of the day animation is fucking animation, you austistic fucks
>>84523934
> lost hope
basically when you look at >>84531422
and realise:
> all of this shit is stuck in an eternal fucking 3/4 view
Go watch almost any 80's and 90's cartoon and you'll see characters often be more dynamic in poses, such as profile, head-on, top-down, or some fucking crazy camera angle that most movie directors could only dream of attempting let alone succeeding in using.
>>84530317
dont hate the cereal, hate the cartoon styling trends.
in the 90's he looked like a disney character because that was the general style for cartoons.
Cereal mascots adapt to the cartoons of the time
>>84524168
>Korra season 1 & 2 broke my spirit.
I kept watching to the end, even after losing hope after 2. Like a battered housewife, I kept telling myself "this time it'll be different, this time they have a different studio and they'll be no romance and..."
It never happened. Every second I spent watching Korra detracted from my already short lifespan. It was literally killing me.
>>84524894
>>84536244
They both have their purposes.
Same with the Undertale crossover one.
>>84530863
One's an animated feature film, the other a television cartoon.
>>84548711
>Anime has always had its roots in being similar to western animation since the black and white era of film as well as early Disney films.
I'm not talking about Japanese animation in general, just anime.
>Anime was derived from manga as a source material, especially since Astro Boy was the first televised anime. Osamu Tezuka made those workarounds to make production quicker since serialized TV animation was in its infancy in the 60s, and not so much because of its "roots in manga".
I already said Astro Boy was adapted from manga and was designed around the limitations of TV production so I don't know why you're telling me this.
>Is the work by students at Geidai not anime because it doesn't stick to what conventionally defines what "anime" looks like?
I don't know what animation you're talking about, but no it isn't necessarily anime.
>At the end of the day animation is fucking animation, you austistic fucks
I never said anime isn't animation.
>>84525450
spoilers probably
Well, people complain that the creators never give Finn a more permanent lover. It's pretty much on and off again for the poor guy.
