Good evening owls of /co/,
Trade #3
>>84522407
(because I have to, I'm just gonna leave this right here)
>>84522419
tee hee
>>84522407
>>84522419
Is this porn I'm seeing?
>>84522419
definitely lewd
So apparently there are more Marvel Nower titles coming, which we all should've known since the list in the preview catalog + x men titles are only like 60-70 of them or something
bleh
>>84522419
this is a BLUE board
>>84522435
everyone on twitter has decided it's a different sex act, but the uniform reaction was, well
Lieber was drawing best girl today (spoilered for size)
>>84522419
People, especially in 4chan, call a lot of things "memes".
You know, "meme show", "meme character", and the like.
I genuinely think Trump is a meme presidential candidate. All of his talking points are the kinds of things you can fit in a tweet, and he does shit like this.
>>84522431
>>84522459
looking forward to the "at least you threw us a bone" disdain for the America book they all want so badly
>>84522459
Z E M O
E
M
O
>>84522407
You read that Spunky Todd Storytime, OP?
>>84522470
j-just for fun, or...
>>84522470
shit, I'd buy that when it's done
>>84522479
Every time I think we've exhausted the possibilities they go new uncharted areas of WTF
>>84522491
I haven't been on today
>>84522480
Yeah I think America will be getting a book this time around if those teasers meant anything
Curious to who they'd put on it
>>84522502
>these descriptions
HI NATE
>>84522502
Clintons having a rally at a pokestop, I don't know what could surprise me now
>>84522493
I think just for fun, nice to dream though
>>84522506
It's Jeremy Whitley's dream book and he's mentioned as an as-yet-unannounced project. I think maybe Leth has as well?
>>84522502
Someone storytimed the first Bendis book.
>>84522480
> Leialoha and Templeton
Even the filli-ins are good
>>84522533
pic related for example
>>84522506
I hope Ewing. He only has 2 books right now. That or they relaunch New Avengers.
>>84522506
the ComicsAlliance Marvel Nower! roundtable got the usual "can we have some people who are actually looking forward to anything talk about the books?" comments
I also had a good laugh at Wheeler for his "If these were Young Avengers spinoffs clearly they would all be good and in different tones and styles. But since they're Deadpool and I'm not reading that book, clearly they are all just the same 'dude with guns' thing."
>>84522431
>Does this look like the face of mercy to you?
>>84522577
>>84522587
>>84522577
(I mean, no shit, if you're not reading a book you won't have any idea what the hook for each character is.)
>>84522577
>the ComicsAlliance Marvel Nower! roundtable got the usual "can we have some people who are actually looking forward to anything talk about the books?" comments
I still can't believe the level of salt from their Rebirth roundtable
I'm getting that nice schadenfreude feel from them being pissy at DC AND Marvel
>>84522435
>>84522464
>>84522600
now this is something that's been bugging me:
http://comicsalliance.com/sunspot-new-avengers-whitewashing/
>>84522502
Bendis' humble beginnings:
>>84520561
>>84522470
>for size
A little too BIG for you, anon?
>>84522640
L-RON INCOMING
>>84522640
Still remember that dude's post-Brexit "Faiza Hussein MUST be Captain Britain" article.
>>84522470
unf
>>84522640
It's Unicron!
>>84522640
It is really weird to read the early issues of New Mutants where he actually looks part black. I'm not sure if whitewashing is the correct term when it's more "Brazilians are hispanic right? So I'll draw a hispanic." It's more...homogenization?
>>84522688
'must' is pure rhetoric, but they seem disinclined to do more UK after Rev War
where's that fucking Death's Head II book, yes
>>84522688
Why? It's not like Captain Britian is in any books NOW.
>>84522709
I don't know that it's as new as that article implies either.
>>84522709
Brazil definitely has its own categories (which people in the comments get into) but he's also probably colored too light 90% of the time.
>>84522727
it's not, it's a long-running issue
>>84522725
So he could vent and take a position.
>>84522727
No man, I'd say it's been ongoing since the 80's.
>>84522741
that Barda is borderline lewd
>>84522533
>Leth
NOOOOOOO
>>84522556
Tell me he doesn't ship them
>>84522577
Has Dmitri been in anything since this?Oh god he's going to die, isn't he?
>>84522765
the bantz
>>84522779
Did you read the tweets? Of course he ships them.
>>84522765
DOUBLE UNF
>>84522577
Comicsalliance harps on about diversity, tell me how diverse their employees are.
>>84522640
I'll never understand why a coloring problem is worth an entire article.
Then again, I'm a white male and my favorite character is Adam Warlock (who, if you'll remember is artificial and is born with golden skin, so he doesn't exactly have a race).
>>84522556
If she gets a book, I hope every issue has a panel where she tries to get into Kate's pants, just so she can respond "Not happening, I'm still straight."
>>84522791
He wrote the Secret Love bit with them hooked up, IIRC
That raises a topic for the night: superheroes who are allowed to be shown as kind of shitty at relationships but still framed as our protagonists. I'll start by putting forth Ray Palmer and Jean Loring's divorce.
>>84522813
It gets pretty irksome when you notice it enough places. Ron Wimberly had a comic he did about it.
Here's a fun recent interview with J.M. DeMatteis
http://dcinthe80s.blogspot.ca/2016/07/mark-belkin-interviews-jm-dematteis-for.html
> There was talk that Brave and the Bold would segue into a Justice League International TV series, but it never happened, which is too bad. I would pay them to let me write that. Well, almost!
>>84522807
I actually never thought of shitting on them for that.
Then again, I don't often think of shitting on things for lack of diversity.
>>84522807
Lots of queer people there, at least. Mostly white though IIRC.
>>84522835
>That raises a topic for the night: superheroes who are allowed to be shown as kind of shitty at relationships but still framed as our protagonists
To be honest if you're going to shoot for Miss America/Kate Bishop pairing this is kind of what I want from it, in the context it's been framed in so far. Shit ain't healthy.
>>84522835
beep boop that's racist
>>84522833
I think the hook up might well be inevitable anon, lot of up-and-coming writers are for it. The JHand of Ike might decide it.
>>84522835
>That raises a topic for the night: superheroes who are allowed to be shown as kind of shitty at relationships but still framed as our protagonists. I'll start by putting forth Ray Palmer and Jean Loring's divorce.
Ollie and Hal both come to mind
>>84522835
Define "shitty at relationships".
>>84522813
>I'll never understand why a coloring problem is worth an entire article.
Sunspot is half black and when he first showed up his dark skin was something that was used to pick on him before his powers manifested. It's important to his character and over the years he's become lighter and lighter
>>84522878Clearly the solar energy is turning him into some kind of fire elemental
>>84522835
>superheroes who are allowed to be shown as kind of shitty at relationships but still framed as our protagonists
Wally West
>>84522855
That would be compelling but it's certainly not what the people who want the book so very badly want, they seem to want one-sided asskicking combined with curtains fic
>>84522839
the CA stuff that bugs me is where some of the Oldfans there with legit knowledge of material filter everything for the Newfans so the latter don't have to form their own opinions, e.g. that "I hated Johns GL: R" article.
>>84522842
Well that's something.
>>84522640
The hypocritical racism of the sjw movement floors me. "He has light skin so he can't be 'black.'" Because skin color is what determines who you are as a person, your culture, your personal values, and everything else that matters, right?
Hasn't Roberto always been treated as more Latino than black anyway?
>>84522895
But his power literally turns him black, so logically speaking it should be making him darker. Also, hasn't he lost his powers?
>>84522904
>they seem to want one-sided asskicking combined with curtains fic
Which was Angela, right? Maybe they'll get Bennett for it.
Who read Kelly's JLA here? I never read it because only runs recommended are Morrison/Waid. I'm at Obsidian Age and so far it's better than Waid's. Also Kelly should really write Plastic Man.
>>84522899
People have forgotten the pre-Waid Wally stuff where he's terrible at relationships.
>>84522876
Consequences are shown in a relationship that stem directly from a character's choices and actions, rather than being off-loaded onto the other person to keep the MC blameless
>>84522948
that's a great example. Wally's an awful boyfriend.
>>84522912
Maybe they were worried people would take black fire as an endorsement of Miguel Serrano's mystic Aryan views in South America.
>>84522904
>the CA stuff that bugs me is where some of the Oldfans there with legit knowledge of material filter everything for the Newfans so the latter don't have to form their own opinions, e.g. that "I hated Johns GL: R" article.
man that article still pisses me off
it reminds me of that one weird article about Wolverine, I don't think it was a CA article but I can't stand those "I didn't like thing and here is why nobody else should like thing" articles
>>84522911
>more Latino than black anyway?
Black Latinos are a thing. Culturally he's Brazillian, but growing up the other kids at school always reminded him of how black eh was
Skin tone can be a HUGE thing in some Latin American countries, sometimes it's the cause of ethnic purging
>>84522807
Pretty queer, also one of the few comic sites I could think of that regularly has Native critic input.
>>84522835
Yeah, and it's like, colorists, this is part of your job. Editors, this is part of your job. This isn't just criticism, this is you guys fucking up at the basics.
Does Kyle Rayner count? And Constantine has to, right?
>>84522911
>>Hasn't Roberto always been treated as more Latino than black anyway?
His very first appearance has him getting in a fight because a kid called him subhuman for being black.
>>84522944
Obsidian Age is one of the best JLA stories, I think. I haven't read much more of Kelly's run but I imagine it's equally great.
Waid and Hitch's run was a disaster. That arc, I think it was called Jacob's Ladder or something, was just awful.
>>84522948
I think a lot of people flat out haven't read it, so many people say to just start at #62
>>84522932
I think many of those who loved Angela did love it as unproblematic wish-fulfillment written by someone being so very careful that no toes were stepped on. Happy ending, cute metatextual domesticity, strawman villain.
>>84522948
> I better dump this girl gently, after all I'm the Flash and this is a big deal. I don't want to hurt her, but I'd rather be a free agent and banging whoever I want
> She dumps him first
> She can't do that, I love her!
I love how much of a shitty 20 year old he was immediately Post Crisis
>>84522874
Waaay more bad boyfriends in comics, I think, but Kate Kane is honestly a pretty shitty gf
>>84523007
Not that there's not some room in that in comics; it's very occasionally my bag, but especially in the short runs we get at Marvel, i want a book to do More.
If there's a fandom, they'll give me the curtains fic.
>>84522956
>>that's a great example. Wally's an awful boyfriend.
I think the peak awfulness was when he was planning to break up with that same woman, then when she told him she want to get back with her husband he was all "What! You can't do that!"
>>84523033
>but Kate Kane is honestly a pretty shitty gf
that's a good one, she is pretty shitty at relationships
>>84522911
I think in some cases you're right (like actively making Damian Wayne darker now than he was before is kind of iffy to me), but it's more a consistency thing than anything else. Just generally match the same coloring as the creator. It's not that hard.
I posted Totally Awesome Hulk yesterday and the ending just made me so bummed about the thing in Civil War II. Bendis hasn't killed a character I was especially connected to before so this is my first time getting the hard benising.
>>84523037
I'm there with you OP but we'll get what we'll get it. And if is that wish-fulfillment stuff, it'll be enshrined by that fanbase too.
>>84523033
They 100% went about it the wrong way, but Editorial was right to nix Kate/Maggie marriage.
>Captain Krikk
>>84523037
I really, really wish everything there pretty much wasn't a "mini until promoted to ongoing". It changes how everyone writes, but since they're not really allowed to write one off issues - and very few people can do them anymore anyway - and told to write for the trade, you basically get one arc and hope against hope that Marvel lets you keep going.
Combination standard decompression with the pressure that your book isn't guaranteed jack shit and everyone's scrambling to try and make something that sticks. Some people can do balls to the wall well, like Walker, but some people work much, much better with breathing room.
...And the people who are guaranteed breathing room over there kind of fucking suck at it. Slott, Bendis.
>>84522948
Wally was such a slut before he settled with Linda
>>84523060
we're here for you to vent to, anon
Editorial is really not coordinating anything in these events.
hee, a Howard Cosell joke
>>84522978
>Does Kyle Rayner count?
OP said
>rather than being off-loaded onto the other person to keep the MC blameless
Which is literally what happened to Jade.
>>84523048
I kind of enjoy it as a counterpart to the Batgod-even-unto-relationships stuff you sometimes get. Someone who spends 50%+ of their time training, patrols the streets instead of sleeping, gets physically fucked up on the regular and frets over young inexperienced charges would not be a reliable partner. Kate and Bruce are both hot, but nothing like stable.
>>84522833
This. This this this, a thousand times this. You don't get to determine characterization with your fetishes just because of a vocal minority's political agenda. If you're going to do that, you have to earn the right first, like Claremont.
>>84522968
>>84522981
Right, and that's his history. Even if his current appearance is different than what it used to be, he's still got that as part of him. So why does it matter if he's lighter now? Hell, he could undergo a freak skin bleaching from an AIM experiment gone wrong and it wouldn't change what's happened to him before.
>>84523125
>fetishes
>>84522997
The earlier stuff isn't bad though, and it's interesting to see Wally develop. The main people I heard complaining about those issues were powerlevelfags.
>>84523066
Maggie was such a noncharacter
>>84523066
>They 100% went about it the wrong way, but Editorial was right to nix Kate/Maggie marriage.
agreed
for starters, Kate totally sprung that proposal on Maggie out of nowhere, it's a shitty foundation for a relationship
>>84522577
Lol.
I really dislike how Comics alliance seems to not like comics anymore
>>84522836
I mean it basically was one anyway
Reed Richards is a terrible husband.
>>84523125
>So why does it matter if he's lighter now?
Because you should at least be competent enough to keep track of your character's skin tone.
>>84523165
Makes me wish the "Sue cheats all the time with BBC and fishdick" were true desu
>>84523150
I wish they'd maybe try a little harder on the "what is shit I like" front and less on the "Wheeler lectures you like he's your disapproving father" front.
SHOP OR DIE!
>>84523125
Because it's not like they went "this is why Roberto is lighter now", they just kept fucking making him whiter. And even if you come up with an in-lore reason... why the fuck is a writer, a creative team, going out of their way to make a dark skinned character less dark? Nothing about that reads as good, not in universe, not out of universe. Right now it's just laziness instead of maliciousness, but if someone came out and went "oh yeah, we're definitely making him whiter" while he's at the height of his visibility in years...
None of that reads as weird, suspect to you? Not even a little fucked up?
And hey, let's turn this around: Let's see you and others take it so casually when colorists start making Reed Richards progressively blacker by accident.
Oh wait, that never fucking happens.
>>84523179
Sue certainly deserves to have all of those affairs, yes.
>>84523135
Am I wrong? Do you honestly think that Kate and America have romantic chemistry, and that they're shipped because they're compatible rather than because fans get off to the idea?
>>84523165
>>84523195
>Common Market of SPACE
There's a Brexit joke in here somewhere....
>>84523226
Pretty much all of the X-Men too come to think of it. Jean for sure. Maybe not like Colossus, and Storm. Don't date mutants.
>>84523220
Sexual orientation isn't a fetish all on its own I think is the point, anon, especially not when coming from people are that sexual orientation.
Lesbians wanting some lesbian relationships in their comics, even if totally non-sexual =/= Claremont putting BDSM in every issue.
>>84523248
Sadly, no Brexit joke is as funny as the real thing.
>>84523199
Marvel Editorial is shit for reasons beyond this. Could literally write a series called "What did the Marvel editors fuck up this time?"
This doesn't seem racist so much as colorists being lazy and the editors being even lazier.
>>84523195
>>84523226
the sexism in old F4 is pretty hard to sit through now
>>84523087
Honestly, if it gives them the ability to try more unusual things, I'm all for it. Unfortunately "unusual" has so far mostly amounted to taking Z-list characters and making them wacky, instead of characters that are already interesting and could use some more attention, such as previously mentioned Captain Britain.
Can't argue with that last point. Marvel has a serious problem with their senior writers right now. I cannot comprehend why Slott is STILL on Spider-Man, regardless of the quality of his run.
>>84523097
It's just flabbergasting to me how he treats anyone other than his pet characters like props and could not possibly give less of a shit what's going on in books other than his own.
I know we've been over this a trillion times but it's never been more apparent to me as seeing the dichotomy between the closing page of TAH and what happens in Civil War II.
>>84523251
All of the X-Men that have been married certainly. Though i can't speak for Storm as I never read any of the stuff with her and Black Panther together
Scott and Maddie were a great couple, until Silver Age nostalgia got in the way
Colossus and Domino OTP
>>84523139
Yeah I guess if you are reading Flash mainly for speed force stuff that's where you'd start, but like you said you miss out on the context of his growing up. The lower power level kind of gave the earlier stuff some charm. Not quite "gritty" Flash but I don't know how else to describe it. Sort of unique in a sense.
Maybe DC will do WML after Waid.
>>84523285
Just compare it to Scott and Barda's cosy life.
>>84523255
Anon, are you seriously trying to say that Yuri isn't a fetish? Because there's not THAT much of a difference between the two, especially if the writing is going to be as flat as we all assume.
>>84523285
Reed actually said that? Yikes....
>>84523285
>Abraham Lincoln's mom
>>84523302
>implying that DC will finish collecting Waid in our lifetimes
>>84523285
>>84523297
Hudlin treated Storm like beautiful, powerful, arm candy. And T'Challa was incredibly patronizing.
>>84523315
eh, there's a difference between yuri as a subgenre with its conventions and "I just want to see some lesbians, whether I am one or not, and if I am, preferably by someone who gets some of the tells of what some actual lesbians do."
>>84523335
http://imgur.com/a/pEAKV have fun
>>84523296
>I cannot comprehend why Slott is STILL on Spider-Man, regardless of the quality of his run.
ASM still sells and events/crossovers bring sales up
It double ships and 65k is the lowest it's gone so far
And they aren't really focused on ASM as much since they know he'll always sell
>>84523283
There's intentional, malicious racism, and there's casual racism.
Marvel has been loaded to the gills with the casual racism in recent years, and the malicious, intentional racism in the past.
But like, no, seriously. Let's "accidentally" color every white hero in Marvel something else for a month.
Let's see if comic fans DON'T shit their pants about it.
The same kind of comic fans who say "what's the big deal" about characters like Bobby and Forge being progressively lightened in color.
Like, put it this way: colorists constantly fucking make this mistake with non-white characters, but they never make this mistake with white characters.
This has to do with a little bit of the assumption that every character is, by default, white. Or, if not that, that lighter skin looks better.
XS got some of this before, where she suddenly was turned into an extra Jesse Quick. Not 'lightened', full on white as could be.
It may not be intentionally done, but that doesn't mean there aren't problems.
>>84523353
Not if Waid throws a fit every time it gets delayed.
>>84523296
A lot of this Andrew Wheeler echo I want what I want is exactly the same though. No fucks given about the characters, just use them as props to show me what I want to see. Like, the Bendis problem isn't restricted to Bendis. But I can't explain the continued prominence of Slott either.
>>84523285
It stands out for sure, but I find those comics have enough positive things going for them that I can still enjoy them. Same with the racial stereotypes you see in the Carl Barks Duck comics early on.
>>84523368
The tells?
>>84523335
You don't need to edit sexism into old FF comics.
>>84523255
Sorry but I agree with that anon, there is plenty of room for lesbian relationships and I continue to welcome them. But to me it just seems like your average fan shipping fantasy which, let's be honest, might as well be fetish fuel most of the time.
Still, I welcome this one because we could use another high profile lesbian couple, but the two seem to only be shipped because they both happen to be gay.
>>84523315
"I'd like to see two girls hold hands and kiss" isn't really crossing over into fetish territory for me, anon.
On the other hand, I have absolutely seen fucking plenty of straight artists and writers fetishize lesbian relationships for their boner.
You seem to really want to hammer it towards those dreaded SJWs while not giving back any of the same heat to the people who control the business in the first place.
>>84523368
In the same way you'll find m/m novels that are written for women by women, that have little to do with Actual Gay Men's Lives and that gay dudes tend to find bewildering and/or fetishistic.
>>84523388
Oh, there's so much verve and inventiveness, but compare Reed/Sue to Katar/Shayera and you kind of have to wince, you know?
>>84523397
things that ring true to actual lesbians, like the kinds of bars people go to, that sort of thing
>>84523335
Welcome to Stan Lee writers female characters.
Anyone have that panel of Janet thinking how cute Kang the Conqueror is?
>>84523407
Kate Bishop isn't gay (yet).
>>84523066
Maggie in the Batbooks was a mistake
>>84523437
At least she's going to the Superbooks thanks to being in Supergirl show
>>84523437
IAWTC
>>84523433
Maybe they can borrow Jean for a while
>>84523407
"I really really want some lesbian relationships and Marvel continues to give me jack shit or even tells me they don't want to label them as gay" =/= "oh my god this is so fucking hot nnnffhfhfhg lesbianssssss"
Like, we're getting into weird definitions of 'fantasy' here. Some people like a ship and think it could be cute =/= Brian Pulido jacking his dick all over the place thinking about Purgatori making out and getting all 1990s hustler porno lesbian with other demon girls.
Almost all art of Amerikate is incredibly G rated to boot.
>>84523150
I guess I prefer the pseudo intellectual attempts at criticism more than how comics journalism used to be, that is mostly fanboy hype from neanderthals.
But maybe they should look for some less cynical contributors to make the site more balanced.
>>84523437
at least Metropolis is reclaiming her
>>84523199
>>84523175
I agree 100% that there is a problem when characters can arbitrarily stray so far from how they have looked previously without a reason. I'm not arguing that Roberto SHOULD be colored lighter just because he can be without changing who he is as a character now. My problem is that the issue at its core isn't just a racial one, but people will try to treat it as though it is to get easy support from those who make decisions based just on reading the title of articles. The problem is actually much much simpler, isn't just about Sunspot, and as a result doesn't need to drag race into it at all.
Editors need to do their fucking jobs.
>>84523255
Query: Would you be okay with an established homosexual hooking up with a heterosexual character just because the writer thought it would be cute?
>>84523460
>>84523480
can we at least all agree to hate on fandom Stucky?
>>84523508
yes
>>84523429
>things that ring true to actual lesbians, like the kinds of bars people go to, that sort of thing
It occurs to me that like none of Angela/Sera, Wiccan/Hulkling, Toni/POD have that. They all start out removed from that everyday stuff.
>>84523508
done
>>84523508
You mean we don't already? I thought we all agreed on the Zemo OTP here.
>>84523429
>to Katar/Shayera
I've only read the Hawkworld mini and a little of the ongoing so I've never read them as anything, but friends
I fully understand if it's off putting to people, but I can deal with it as a product of it's time. Though it is remarkable to go see how Kirby handled Barada in the 70's and see she was great from the get go, probably because she was in part based of his wife
>>84523508
Zemo/Cap and Zemo/Bucky are definitely superior options.
>>84523525
just another reason why Orlando Midnighter is GOAT
>>84523525
To be fair, that's probably in part due to "does anyone get shown with any casual downtime unless it's a Hawkguy sort of book these days"
>>84523539
See, we read Every Hawkman Comic starting with the Silver Age, and the original Kubert stuff is way less sexist than you'd expect--sure, he's the archaeologist and she's the secretary, but she fights alongside him and hits things too.
>>84523554
yes, yes, absolutely
>>84523543
Hydra goons and/or NazisxBucky is also acceptable
>>84523554
True. And Miss America fits that same niche, or a similar one, for lesbians. They ought to give her a book, there's just a high chance it's bland ship-confirming shit.
>>84523480
Well, I admit I don't know what exactly people are posting since I don't pay a lot of attention to the Marvel fanbase. My opinion mostly stems fromBubbelinefandom.
But I mean please hook America up with someone, get Kate some sweet taco action, just don't put them together because they don't even work in an "opposites attract" kind of way.
>>84523572
Even #Strucky?
>>84523596
I'd like to see a queer/lesbian female writer (other than Leth or Bennett) take a crack at Miss America
>>84523566
>way less sexist than you'd expect
As far as the Silver Age goes I have very little to compare to. Just about everything from that time period I've read was co-plotted and scripted by Lee
I want to say he handled Shalla Bal in the Silver Surfer comics way better than Sue, Jean, or Janet. But it's been awhile
>>84523617
Who? I'd take Valentine, certainly.
>>84523489
Fucking.. it is racial though. To assume that characters are all white, or to act like lighter coloring is better, IS racial. It absolutely is. It's not "your KKK distant cousin" racial, but it is racial. I feel like I'm running into 101 stuff here, like "There's no such thing as apolitical art". Race IS at play here, whether it's done intentionally, or not.
What is passively accepted and done can still absolutely be racial. I'm not gonna call the colorists and editors bigots, but the fact that they accept all this is still. A racial. Issue.
Again: Just about nobody ever fucking gets accidentally colored black in comics. But dark skinned people get lightened up all the time, or made outright white. This is not just in comics too, but dark skinned people's skins are lightened in fashion and in magazines during and after photography. Do you think this is all just a terrific coincidence, or is there some passive racial factor here?
And as for your other fucking question: This assumes that heterosexuality is a permanent binding thing. Dan Slott made Living Lightning gay, and hardly anyone made a peep. People can explore sexuality. Not that I trust hetero writers to handle this, but people absolutely do make late-stage discoveries about their sexuality, or even their gender.
Fucking hell, to put it another way: Striker was "straight" until he came out on panel. Exploration and questioning of sexuality can happen.
And don't you fucking dare pull some reversal "okay but what if a gay character ended up realizing they were straight" shit, then you're just being full on disingenuous, contrarian, and kind of a shithead for no reason.
And I've heard worse reasons for ships that were canon and long going, like, "Marv Wolfman's boner cannot be stopped".
>>84523508
ZemoCap>SkullCap=FalCap>>>>>>>Stucky
>>84523648
I'd also take Valentine
>>84523572
I kind of admire the Hydra Trash Party for knowing what they like and being unapologetic about it
btw, no storytime Sunday
>>84523649
>"Marv Wolfman's boner cannot be stopped"
very sad and very true.
>>84523489
>is that the issue at its core isn't just a racial one
It is though. "Latinos are all mestizos" and "I'm not sure what to color this guy as, I assume he's white" are based off of racial assumptions, even though they're not meant to be racist.
>>84523648
Valentine is queer? Also you're not that lucky anon.I wish Valentine was writing Wonder Woman. Rucka so far is boring.
>>84523676
>>84523690
Talking about Sunspot, though, he was clearly created as one thing and the drift away from that lines up perfectly with artistic unconscious prejudices that it's good to stop and take a look at.
>>84523649
>ust about nobody ever fucking gets accidentally colored black in comics
Now that I think about it we saw a case of that in Suicide Squad. Flo was white in her first appearance and later was black
>>84523705
Valentine on nothing right now is kind of :|, assuming that she wants to be.
>>84523705
>>84523690
(I meant that to be an I agree, the though snuck in there)
>>84523676
>I kind of admire the Hydra Trash Party for knowing what they like and being unapologetic about it
a lot of them seem a little ashamed of it, but as long as they keep posting it they can be as embarrassed as they want
>>84523720
She's writing Xena.
>>84523646
In general, I'd say Silver Age DC comics treated women a lot more equally than Marvel did.
>>84523720
>Valentine on nothing right now is kind of :|, assuming that she wants to be.
Is she still doing Xena? or was that a mini
>>84523731
I should have specified "nothing DC after Catwoman/BRE wrapped up". She wasn't a disaster like Wilson...
>>84523722
The disconnect between "this is my kink" and "I wholeheartedly endorse this in everyday life" is real. Only made worse because moral criticisms of this sort of thing are thrown around so easily.
>>84523649
>Just about nobody ever fucking gets accidentally colored black in comics
I know it's rare but Captain Marvel always sticks out like a sore thumb to me on this page
>>84523648
Holy crap, yes. Valentine is so goddamn underrated.
If anyone could make America a good character, it's her.
>>84523747
Oh. Well, I agree. She is an author and blogger, likely has other stuff to focus on.
>>84523736
The only Silver Age DC stuff I've really read are the War comics which are pretty male dominated in cast
>>84523543
Why is Zemo so shippable?
>>84523755
It is incredibly rare, but I will admit that it happens.
Connor Hawke though, that boy changes ethnicity by the day.
>>84522911
Bobby being black is important
>>84523704
I believe some variety of queer, yeah. I might be wrong.
>>84523755
It took me forever to see him behind Alan Scott there.
There's also Fixer and Mach-whatever, but that's probably more "Okay, which race did these two decide they are today?"
>>84523755
>Billy is black
>Conner is green/gray
>>84523775
>tfw Zemo/Zemo ships
>>84523775
They're two different dynamics. For instance, he probably can't be shipped with Captain Falcon.
>>84523775
100% husbando, capable of compelling dynamics with almost anyone because he started as a villain so he has actual flaws and a personality
>>84523690
>>84523649
Okay, okay, I see what you're saying. That was small-minded of me.
>People can explore sexuality.
They can. If someone can earnestly and with respect write Kate as coming to the discovery that she likes women and do it all proper justice, I will have zero problems with it. I don't believe that the people who are vocal about the pairing would be able to, and why I want them to stay the fuck away from it.
I don't see how a gay character being written as straight is any different than a straight character being written as gay. Can you please explain to me what is wrong with that kind of thinking without resorting to accusations and insults?
>>84523749
Oh yeah, there was some garbage going around lately how if you ship underage characters you're clearly in favor of real life pedophila and if you write noncon you obviously support rape in real life
some people just can't accept that kinks and fantasy don't dictate your real life actions or opinions on such things
>>84523792
Well, he DID once marry a woman who was basically his father in a woman's body.
>>84523805
That's true, but on Falcon's behalf rather than Zemo's IMO.
>>84523807
>100% husbando
This is an objective measurement.
>>84523814
In the case of Byrne, he does it so much you genuinely start to wonder.
Englehart just did it the one time .
>>84523810
Mostly that there's a shitload more straight characters than gay, so it's like losing something when you have very few compared to when you have many. When it's less asymmetrical, it'd be more neutral to have a "previously exclusively gay character in a straight relationship' story.
>>84523377
The only counterpoint I can think of is Shocker. He seems to be getting swarthy last I saw, which personally I like.
>>84523841
>>84523368
I actually have become a fan of Storm/T'Challa and I'm even madder at Hudlin. Excited for TNC's take
>>84523755
Carol's also looking pretty dark there, and they drew her pretty dark when she showed up in Spectre v4
characters getting darker is really unusual though, yes
>>84522407
Barda! I hope she handles the Joker one handed.
>>84523878
I liked Steve Lieber's "he goes down to NYC expat communities in Florida a lot" cover
>>84523881
I expect TNC to be 100% less sexist
>>84523431
Reminder Stan thought he was trying to do good. And Kirby gives her stuff to do
You wouldn't insult Lincoln's mother!!
>>84523829
I know Byrne got flack for having a character be pro-life in Fantastic Four. He questioned why the reader would think something said by a villain would be his personal opinion and they responded that because he was the writer all the characters spoke with his voice
That's one of the more nutjob things I've seen in a letter's column
>>84523881
It's hilarious being part of a Facebook group filled with casuals, and they all love the ship without being able to explain why besides "lol they're black"
>>84523917
>>84523841
While this is true, it's also a reflection of real life. I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm saying gays should just take what scraps they're thrown and be thankful they have anything at all, but bringing up the population of characters of a given orientation seems kind of like moving the goalposts when in both cases it's just portraying a character as a different sexuality than they were shown with previously. One sexuality isn't inherently more valuable than the other unless you try to bring an observer into it.
>>84523942
WHOOPS
>>84523926
"depiction is not endorsement" has taken a constant beating the past few years
>>84523871
I believe Lieber's explanation was that he was one of those old-school New Yorker's that vacationed on Florida.
>>84523841
Well, there are far more straight people than gay in the real world as well.
Not to say at all that the ratios should be equivalent. And there really should be no reason not to make new characters gay at this point, because the only people who actually have a problem with that are silly geese.
Just arbitrarily asking for the relevant characters at any given time to be exactly half gay is a bit pointless. Ideally, it should be at a point where there are enough good and popular gay characters that you don't even need to consciously think "OK, I've gotta add some more gay folks to make this more diverse".
Now, if we're talking getting racial representation more balanced, that's something that should be a big focus.
http://www.newsarama.com/30150-preview-green-lanterns-3.html
Baz continues to be best boy
>>84523959
>Ideally, it should be at a point where there are enough good and popular gay characters
It's the fear of losing the ones who are there that drives the protectiveness. A bit like how you can just tell that they thought it was 'okay' to kill Rhodey because look, they have Falcon and Black Panther, see?
>>84523989
>>84523950
>"depiction is not endorsement" has taken a constant beating the past few years
I agree 100%. I hate that villains aren't allowed to have positive traits and heroes aren't allowed to have negative or controversial traits.
We've harped on it a lot in these threads so I won't rant. But I'm all for some heroes having some racist/sexist views to make them seem more human and real. Sometimes good people have some shitty sides to them that don't necessarily make them a completely awful person.
>>84524020
>>84523986
dex starr is best cat
>>84522419
i dont get it
>>84523989
Right. And while I think part of equality is black characters being equally viable to be killed off (though really most of the time there's no reason to fucking kill anybody at all, huh BENDIS?)... we're not exactly in a position to be flushing the few high profile minority characters we have down the toilet.
>>84523989
It wasn't okay for them to kill anyone for that, fuck. No brown, pink, yellow, or green person should have to die for Bendis' trash.
>>84523926
>>84523989
>A bit like how you can just tell that they thought it was 'okay' to kill Rhodey because look, they have Falcon and Black Panther, see?
I wish people would blame the one who actually came up with it, and not Marvel as a whole.
Just once, I want to see someone say something to the effect of "Here comes the new Iron Man, a teenage black girl. Brought to you by the man who killed War Machine for shock value!"
>>84523959
I think part of the problem is treating gay characters like they're magic beings
> Look guys, we've got another one!
Just let them be characters
I thought the press push for Northstar's marriage was kind of dumb.
Then again I'm a straight dude, so I feel like any time I talk about how to best represent something I'm not it comes off as a little ignorant
>>84524097
We're getting closer and closer to seeing #BeheadBendis trend on Twitter!
>>84524097
>blame the one who actually came up with it
Let's be honest, it was a decision by committee at one of their retreats. Most major happenings in the Universe aren't decided by one single person
a camel is a horse designed by a committee and all that
>>84524037
sorry, internet crashed
>>84524060
if you click it's animated
>>84524072
I'm anti-shock killing to begin with, but I think you have a higher bar to leap to kill a minority character right now, yes
>>84524098
Northstar's marriage was dumb because nothing interesting whatsoever has come of it.
>>84524155
>>84524097
Marvel as a whole did give the okay for it, though. It's like I said on Wednesday, Bendis is basically a developmentally-challenged child who will always act a certain way no matter what you do. He's not capable of behaving decently, so a lot of the responsibility can be put on Marvel who could act to control his shit but doesn't.
>>84524155
>nothing interesting whatsoever has come of it.
Well he died...and came back
Or was that before?
>>84523989
I don't have a problem with black characters dying, but I do dislike them dying terribly and dumbly. Like Bill Foster in Civil War. The only person as far as I know who faced consequences for his death was his nephew, who only faced those consequences because he was pissed no one else faced consequences for Bills death.
>>84524181
that was earlier. Marjorie Liu married him off in...was it Astonishing? And there was this fucking hilarious wedding cover with 'famous Marvel couples' all of whom except Reed/Sue were broken up at the time and still are.
>>84524181
that was before, I think
I'm not sure what Northstar's been doing since that book ended. I think he was on some random X-book that has already been forgotten about a while ago?
This has been a fun discussion. Thanks, guys. Now I'm going to actually read the comic that OP is kind enough to storytime for us.
>>84524204
he was in Yost's Juggernaut arc, and he was delightfully bitchy
>>84524204
>I think he was on some random X-book
He was on Amazing when Yost was writing it. Being a snarky asshole
>>84524155
>Northstar's marriage was dumb because nothing interesting whatsoever has come of it.
Also Northstar never got to like, date.
>>84524204
>I'm not sure what Northstar's been doing since that book ended
Better question, when was the last time you saw his husband?
>>84523986
>BAZ Brings A Teddy Bear TO A RED LANTERNS Fight
10/10 and I haven't even read a page yet
>>84524252
>>84524244
>>84524237
When's the last time his husband's even shown up? Marrying a mutie off to a random civilian was a dumb idea
>>84524268
It really was, because it makes it hard for writers to work him in, and Yost didn't bother, he had enough Actual X-Men to include
>>84524313
>>84524268
I mean Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Beast, Angel, Iceman, and Cyclops all dated civilians at different points
Although in Nightcrawler and Cyclops' case they turned out to be more than just civilians, but retcons gonna retcon
>>84524330
>I mean Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Beast, Angel, Iceman, and Cyclops all dated civilians at different points
that is true, and yet I can't name any of their random civvy love interests because none of them stick around long enough to matter
>>84524330
dating is one thing, marriage is another, especially if the dating was in the era of larger supporting casts and less decompression
>>84524355
>>84524352
I remember Amanda Sefton, Opal, and Candy Southern. I mostly remember Candy because I am forever baffled as how such a dull relationship lasted so long.
>>84523986
On the bright side, hillbillies threatening Atrocitus. On the other hand... Bleez's garter straps are either not very prominent or nonexistent and Baz did technically steal that teddy
>>84524352
>not remembering Mariko
She showed up a lot man.
They should make his husband Inhuman
>>84524224
you've got to get into the flow of reading while you post
>>84524383
She was with Angel, it was perfect.
>>84524352
Mariko for Wolverine
Madelyn Prior for Cyclops, we all know how that went
Amanda Sefton for Nightcrawlerhis foster sisterwho later tuned out to be from a line of witches and joined Excalibur
>>84524382
that Zdarsky book sounds 100% Meme-Lord
>>84524443
But crucially, Zdarsky is funny
>>84524224
>reading comics
Get a load of this clown.
>>84524443
ROCKING THE KIRBY LOOK
ROCKING THE EVERYTHING
>>84524443
At least Anka is drawing a male led book
Now we just need Dauterman to
>>84524443
what the fuck are they thinking with the GOTG stuff? Star-Lord sounds awful
>>84524443
I remember when I found his humor kind of quirky, then it really over stayed it's welcome
The two page Original sin gag he did was pretty good
> The Punisher: I still enjoy going to the park, it's relaxing
