Let me be blunt; is there a labor crisis in America today?
Wuhh dat dupundz on vatchu mean by cwysis
>>84412186
one man's crisis is another man's market reaction.
>>84412205
Would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
>>84412186
The extreme opposite. There are far more people than there are jobs.
>>84412279
Incorrect. There are more job applicants than there are positions offered by employers.
However we are not a post-scarcity society. As long as there is an unfulfilled need, there will always be a job.
If no one's hiring, then become an enterprenuer - start your own business. Even if your business fails, it's better than starving to death.
>>84412445
>Incorrect, except that exactly what you said is true
Also:
>Even if your business fails, it's better than starving to death.
Starting a business that fails is not better than starving to death. It expedites it.
>>84412445
>As long as there is an unfulfilled need, there will always be a job.
Unless the unfulfilled need is needing a job.
Technological progress long ago made full employment impossible, and the number of people needed to do any given task decreases every day.
>>84412445
how does becoming an enterpenuer work when you dont have the money to start the business? how does that keep you from starving?
>>84412516
Youre a fucking faggot, dude.
Great thread guys. Im sure your girlfriends will be proud.
>>84412516
Who "needs" a job? We need food, water, and sometimes clothing and shelter, depending on where you are located. Everything else is a luxury.
And by food I mean calories and vitamins.
>>84412618
Generally, those things require money, which generally requires a job.
>>84412541
Why do you need money to start a business? Kids wash cars, mow lawns, (and used to deliver newspapers), and they have no starting capital. All you need is a clean clothes (so you don't look like you're going to rob the building) and towel/mop to be a housecleaner/janitor - and more than half the time the client provides the mop.
You're not gonna make it rich mopping floors, but you can feed yourself. Illegal immigrants do this every day.
>>84412665
>generalizations
this is why you're a wagecuck
>>84412727
You can't pay the bills and put food on the table by going into every business you see and offering to mop the floors for a quarter.
>>84412727
>All you need is a clean clothes
Costs money. Finding a place to shower when you're homeless also ranges from difficult to impossible.
>>84412754
Faggot.
>>84412727
>why do you need money to start a business
because how the fuck are you gonna pay for your own life on top of the expenses of running a business
seems like youve never had the harsh reality of using your own money for anything.
>>84412727
Back before I had steady employment, housecleaning and janitor jobs were among the ones I hit up all the time. They still required experience and had about 10 applicants for any given opening.
It's not a matter of opinion as to how many jobs there are. It's a mathematical fact that there are less than there are people seeking work.
Even illegal immigrants working for sub-minimum wage aren't guaranteed work, and they just push the floor for wages even lower.
>>84412759
then charge the client more than a quarter...
captain obvious to the rescue!
>>84412727
Kids don't make enough money to live on their own by doing shit like that.
>>84412727
>Kids wash cars, mow lawns, (and used to deliver newspapers), and they have no starting capital.
They also have living expenses of zero.
>>84412817
Who the fuck is going to pay you hundreds of dollars to do that? Janitors and Maids already exist.
>>84412817
have fun going to more than the houses in your direct vicinity without the money to pay for a car, and even if you charge 100 bucks per house and they even pay you that much how can you mow the lawn more than 1 time a week
>>84412760
That's what universal health care and other associated social security is for.
Or are you posting from the united memes of america where such things don't exist?
>>84412785
>pay for your own life
life is cheap yo. head over to /ck/, eat some ramen, then think about how many packets an african can afford to buy each month.
all your cell phone bills and other bullshit are luxuries. you can live without em.
>>84412864
>Or are you posting from the united memes of america where such things don't exist?
And where people cry for the limited versions we do have to be cut.
>>84412819
Kids don't work 60 hours a week. At least not since the 1920's.
>>84412876
A place to live is a luxury? Running clean water is a luxury?
>>84412876
Living exclusively on ramen will have major impact on your health.
Cell phones are a necessity for most jobs now.
And housing is the overwhelming majority of expenses.
>>84412895
How many hours do you work a week?
>>84412834
why does anyone deserve hundreds of dollars? can you not think of the market value of labor as something other than a hypothetical $0.25 or $100.00 (i'm assuming per hour)?
>>84412895
Where are you going to find people who will pay a random person a bunch of money to do menial chores instead of hiring someone to do it?
>>84412856
mow more than 1 lawn.
oh shit captain obvious strikes again!
>>84412950
You can't just fucking walk into someone's house and demand they give you a job mopping floors.
>>84412900
yes and yes.
Humans have been doing it for thousands of years.
Been to India?
>>84412950
Not him, but the market value of labor is far lower than what is livable due to the sheer surplus of labor available.
An employer can offer pathetically low wages and still find plenty of people willing to take that job, because those people have no better options.
>>84412985
Living in India is not living. It's suffering.
>>84412445
>Once those needs are fulfilled, there are no more jobs
A lot of employers can't afford to offer more positions at this time. Anyone who starts and runs a business knows how expensive it is to hire people, maintain people, and offer them decent wages without losing profitability.
>>84412922
>Living exclusively on ramen will have major impact on your health.
True, living only on any one food blah blah.
but you won't die.
>Cell phones are a necessity for most jobs now.
No. But pretending you're right, most is not all.
>And housing is the overwhelming majority of expenses.
Spending beyond your means.
>>84412876
>all your cell phone bills and other bullshit are luxuries. you can live without em.
You literally cannot, if you live in a first world country.
>>84412933
50-53 hrs/wk. I work 65 hrs for 8 weeks a year when my company releases new products.
>>84413033
Livable until you get some horrible disease due to living in a box and drinking dirty water.
>>84413033
>but you won't die.
You'll die much, much sooner though.
>>84412967
Not a bunch of money, just enough to feed yourself.
I mean if the price is right, wouldn't you? How clean and spotless is your car/house?
>>84413033
>True, living only on any one food blah blah.
but you won't die.
No, you literally will die if you only eat ramen.
>Spending beyond your means.
You cannot survive as a homeless person in America. You can't make money because no one will hire you because you can't look presentable because you have no money.
>>84412983
No one said demand, you entitled brat. Dress in clean clothes, don't smell, don't cuss, ask politely. Try the next one if they turn you away.
>>84413077
Not many people would pay random homeless men to clean up their house.
>>84413077
>I mean if the price is right, wouldn't you?
No. I would not trust a person desperate enough to work for pennies to clean my house.
>>84413101
You sound like a child who has never tried getting a job.
>>84413007
Desire is the cause of suffering - Buddha
ITT: entitled brats who think life without luxury is worse than death.
>>84413101
>Dress in clean clothes, don't smell
Requires money.
Also, no one is going to hire someone who goes door-to-door asking if he can clean your house unless he can show that he has experience.
>>84413132
There is no point to living if there's nothing to enjoy.
>>84412992
Nothing is stopping anyone from becoming an employer. If you see an untapped vein of cheap raw labor, mine that shit!
lol, no better options.
>>84412727
It's always strange to see this attitude on a site that revels in its piracy and throws bitchfits whenever anyone in an artistic field starts trying to sell their craft.
>>84413153
>Nothing is stopping anyone from becoming an employer.
A lack of money absolutely does.
>If you see an untapped vein of cheap raw labor, mine that shit!
That only works if there is anyone who wants that labor. The entire problem is that there is a far, FAR greater supply of labor than there is demand for it.
>>84413068
>market correction
>>84413065
are there diseases which are not horrible?
>>84413231
Dandruff, RLS, the kind of cold that's JUST bad enough to justify missing school.
>>84413119
and yet you trust them enough to flip your burgers...
>>84412969
you have pathetic reading comprehension
>captain obvious
Go back to 9fag.
>>84413077
>enough to feed yourself
You're going to have to go concrete here. How much is that per day?
>>84413135
Not that much money. Seriously illegal immigrants do this all day.
>>84413251
Yes, because they're not making them inside my house.
Also, burger flippers get minimum wage. I can't afford to pay someone even that.
>>84413122
Probably is.
I smell some naive, idealistic Berniecuck.
>>84413276
And even they aren't guaranteed work. For every one that gets hired there's a dozen who don't.
>>84413144
kys?
>>84413286
>Arguing that poor/homeless people are just lazy and that the free market works perfectly by itself
>Being a Benie supporter
>>84413286
Do you actually look up what politicians stances are or do you vote purely based on memes?
>>84413301
>free market works perfectly by itself
I love this meme
I love even more that there are people who legitimately believe it
>>84412279
Depends where you are. Rapidly developing countries by their very nature have no shortage of job openings as they are constantly expanding their output and production (which in turn fuels more jobs and production).
If you live in a developed country, there may be more people than openings, but not by much. The issue is that most of the job openings are for highly educated people. As the manual labour jobs move to the aforementioned developing nations, developed nations are focusing more on innovation which requires higher standards of education. One of the biggest problems in America right now is that their education system has stagnated while their manufacturing has been lost to free-trade agreements with China.
>>84413324
You may have misread my post.
I was saying that calling a person who believes that a Berniefag is like calling Anita Sarkeesian a Trump fan.
>>84412445
The sad thing is, in my country you can't just "start a business". You have to jump through myriads of hoops and pay money for permits etc. before you can start. Otherwise you will get raped by the state in no time.
>>84413301
Actually you're right. The free market does work. That's why you're losing all your jobs. My people are cheaper because you whities have gotten used to being "worth more".
That's why your companies go over here, pay exorbitant bribes and crazy fees, building their own buildings, renting land at high rates, then paying my people way more than 10x our minimum wage for jobs that require very little skill and training. Because it's cheaper to do that then to get you people to do it.
Enjoy globalization.
But suppose that your house was ransacked by thugs, your family tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths. You try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob...
>>84413318
What makes you think I vote?
>Berniecuck is triggered
>>84413370
You clearly don't, because the voting age is 18.
>>84413357
You mean your country is driving the standard of living down for the entire globe.
>>84413177
hypothetical - would a company invest into building a manufacturing robot if human labor could manufacture the same product for cheaper?
>>84413238
what does RLS stand for?
>>84413275
depends on your location.
>>84413279
>Yes, because they're not making them inside my house.
wash car, mow lawn, windows?
>Also, burger flippers get minimum wage. I can't afford to pay someone even that.
then pay them less, do you think the IRS is gonna get you?
>>84413286
not at all. in fact if you really want to stem the overwhelming tide of competitively priced labor, go ahead and let trump build his wall. (not sarcasm)
>>84412276
Mmmmm, yes I would, Kent.
>>84412727
You are giving a way different example making a comparison of a kid and starting a company when you have no money for it.
Capitalism breeds innovation and success -- to a point. Once it became more profitable to grind miserable employees to a powder and move on to the next clinically depressed Mexican looking to feed his family, capitalism sort of defeated itself into obsolescence. Communism was the Boogeyman word for the dictatorship of the USSR, and capitalism will be remembered as the Boogeyman word for the United States' 21st Century Feudalism.
The wealthy stay wealthy, and have stayed wealthy since they were kings in Europe. We've been riding on a fading glimmer of hope into the sunset of Late Capitalism, a nation diagnosibly depressed and longing ti recapture brief glory days we'd found ourselves in almost a century ago-- glory days made possible by progressive socialistic policies that promoted community.
The climate is perfect; fascism is ready for another round against the world. Economic disparity and rampant hate, what's left of the middle class being tied up, blindfolded, and hearded like cattle. Really, all I look forward to is getting a firsthand observation of what a world war will look like with wifi.
>>84413391
>hypothetical - would a company invest into building a manufacturing robot if human labor could manufacture the same product for cheaper?
No.
But they do invest into machines that do the labor for cheaper than the cost of human labor would be. And this only increases as technology advances.
>>84413378
>double that in a year
Lol
>>84413425
how is self employment not a business?
BYOB
be your own boss
>>84413388
Nah. You whities barely reach a billion. The rest of us? We ARE the globe.
The free market is simply correcting for centuries of you people mining precious minerals from our countries and using us as cheap labor.
>>84413391
>do you think the IRS is gonna get you
>he's never been audited
>>84413466
>Nah. You whities barely reach a billion. The rest of us? We ARE the globe.
Yes. I'm including you in that.
You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
>>84413446
so when
1) we have an overwhelming supply of human labor, and
2) the market value of labor decreases as supply increases
how can machines cost less than humans?
>>84413446
Not to mention that human labor gets more expensive as time goes on, while machine upkeep costs go down or reach a stable state.
You don't need to pay retirement for decomissioned machines.
Machines don't care about subsidized health care.
Machines don't go on strike or get dissatisfied and ask for a promotion/raise..
>>84413495
Because minimum wage laws exist, and humans cannot survive below certain incomes.
>people actually are debating off of a Simpsons joke
Fuck you /co/
>>84413489
I'm zero percent white. We win, you lose.
>>84413549
No, fuck YOU! Off-topic /co/ threads are always informative and interesting.
I remember when that guy posted the Noah comic, we had a discussion about early monotheistic religions and how the flood myth came to be.
>>84413558
You completely missed what I said in that post.
You are lowering the standard of living for everyone. Not just people more well off than you. INCLUDING you. You're eating shit and laughing about it because it means other people have to eat shit too.
>>84413455
You know what, I think you are bait. I will play along for a bit anyway.
To start a business, you need money. To get money you need a job or a bank to loan you money. You can't have a business when you have a low-minimum paying job to support it, and you can't just get a loan from a bank just like that. And don't get me started on what you need ro spend to get a degree in beinga entrepreneur.
>>84413579
I don't think you understand how statistics work.
We're poorer.
You're richer.
We're taking your money.
You know how my people now have broadband internet access and smartphones when they used to be well-above the purchasing capability of our middle-class? And now our maids and taxi drivers have iPhones?
Yeah, thanks.
:D
>>84413603
He's been bait since the star of the thread. Incredibly thin arguments with mostly rhetoric and almost nothing to support them. I'm just enjoying throwing him a curve-ball right now.
>>84413513
The cost of unskilled human labor has been flat for the majority of history, until we created fiat money. On an individual basis, some people obtain skills, so their higher pay is a result of better performance.
You don't need to pay retirement for people either. The people with 401ks etc. are thusly compensated because they are worth more.
Health care is a luxury, not a right. We didn't magically gain rights in the past 200 years that the pilgrims didn't have. If health care was a right, doctors would be slaves.
But the manufacturers of machines can raise prices.
>>84413626
>You don't need to pay retirement for people either
What specific country does this apply to again?
>>84413608
I don't think you understand even the most basic principles of economics.
The worker who is willing to work for the least determines what the lowest wages will be. You are keeping the demand for labor low, and as a result are making wages and the number of available jobs lower across the board for everyone, INCLUDING yourselves.
>>84413626
>Health care is a luxury, not a right. We didn't magically gain rights in the past 200 years that the pilgrims didn't have.
The only thing that determines what is and isn't a right is what the people in power decide.
>>84413659
I don't even think you took economics in college. You seem to have a very Wikipedia-esque grasp of it.
Our wages have gone up in proportion to the global average. Definitely higher than yours have. Haw haw. Cry harder, first worlder.
>>84413537
QED: minimum wages decrease the total number of jobs.
>humans cannot survive below certain incomes.
purchasing power does not correlate to a specific currency.
>it doesnt matter if a filipino only gets paid $520 a year. he lives well, because dinner costs $0.25.
>>84413622
Yeah, there is just no way for such ignorant person, unless its one of those rich bastards of course.
>>84413626
>But the manufacturers of machines can raise prices.
If they want to lose money. If they could raise the prices without losing so many customers that they'd see a net loss in sales, they'd do exactly that. That's what decides what the prices are to begin with.
>>84413699
Good point. I never considered that. So malicious baiter or spoiled naive white rich kid.
I honestly can't decide which one he is.
>>84413696
>QED: minimum wages decrease the total number of jobs.
For the trade-off of not living in a society where employers are essentially slaves with abysmal living conditions.
Technoloical advancement already ensures that maximum employment is impossible. Trying to chase after that is absolutely retarded.
>>84413723
Could be a bit of both: a rich spoiled brat that likes to bait people on his free time.
>>84413603
No, you really don't need that much money to start a business. Does eBay check your resume to see if you have a degree before you start selling shit?
Remind me again never to enter a /co/ thread based on politics or economics, even a thinly-veiled one like this.
http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_20_02_05_lehman.pdf
>>84413695
They've gone up because they were far lower to begin with. Best-case scenario, you wind up in exactly the same position we're in now.
>>84413730
*employees
>>84413752
Actually they kind of do, in so much as credit history is part of a resume.
>>84413752
That requires something to sell.
>>84413752
last i checked, you need a credit card or a paypal account (which needs a credit card) i order to get money from ebay. and access to a reliable postal service.
>>84413699
the flaw in this comic is nepotism, not priviledge. I would hire whichever candidate is more qualified.
SJWs go back to tumblr
>>84413701
just like unions.
>>84413806
Nepotism is a privilege, you dummy.
>>84413806
Yeah, and which person is more qualified? The guy that had very well-off parents that was able to go to good schools since the beginning.
>>84413817
No it's not. But it's true that wealthier people are usually better connected, so the social status of the parents makes nepotism possible in the first place.
>>84413730
so you agree, there is no crisis, just normal life.
>>84413795
>>84413803
but the bar is way lower than your supposed "bank loan" and "college degree"
>>84413783
that's exactly the point. Course-correction. You richies have been fucking around, now it's our term.
>>84413847
>No it's not
Yeah, I'm calling spoiled kid.
>>84413860
Not really. See, in order to have a good credit score, you actually have to USE credit. Which means having the funds to pay off the bill.
So you still need starter money, after a fashion.
>>84413827
Good schools don't = good grades. guy gets B+ vs girl get B? Really gonna use that as the deciding factor? Even if an employer asked for transcripts instead of just a degree, you still have to ace an interview. And most of all, prove you're not a shitty worker. You can still get fired if you suck.
>>84413890
Different guy than you responded to.
Nepotism is only privilege in that specific parent example. Nepotism could also be given to a guy you met in a bar, from your fraternity, or a having a common interest like fantasy football. The point is that nepotism originates from a flaw in the employer, not the employee.
>>84413917
>You can still get fired if you suck
Not really. Last year, I used to work for deli service. After being there for a month and learning the ropes, we had an older guy(around 4 years older than me) start working for us. The fucker did a poor-ass job with tasks, took his breaks and lunches whenever he wanted, and even one time found out by my co-workers to have sneaked off with unpaid fresh-fried chicken to the freezer and eat it there. And guess what? Motherfucker wasn't fired, even after I left the job. I didn't eat at that place until the guy quit a few months later even though the guy was still fucking up.
>>84413999
Sounds like your mutual manager was equally incompetent. Your argument can be summarized as "The free market is imperfect because humans are imperfect." True, but its still better than communism.
>>84412727
How kids make money and how adults feed a family are barely even on the same spectrum. To say nothing of: Well how do kids mow lawns or make lemonade? They borrow from their parents. There is a foundation from them to work from. Do you expect most adults to have those kinds of resources? Or to yield the same results from such a menial idea of labor?
>>84414102
1) Raising children is a luxury, like a more costly pet. If you can't afford to feed a kid, you're a shitty parent and give it up for adoption.
2) I do expect an adult to afford a used lawnmower, or hedge clippers, broom, towel, or shovel. These are not expensive capital requirements.
3) I do expect them to yield the same (low income) results. Fact: unskilled labor pays less than skilled labor. But you can feed yourself, just don't expect lobster, truffles and champagne.
>>84414238
Going door to door asking people to give you money in exchange for lawn work will not make you enough money to survive. You'll be lucky if even one person decides to hire you.
>>84414403
tell that to all the illegal immigrants.
>>84414431
I have never met these mysterious door to door lawn mowing illegal immigrants.
Motherfucker, if I could get some asshole to mow my lawn every weekend, I'd pay the bastard top dollar.
>>84414431
You constantly get random Mexicans knocking on your door and asking to mow your lawn?
>>84414782
Actually, I do. There's a few dozen of them living under a bridge where I live, and at least a dozen at every home depot in the area for convinent pickup.
Availability will vary, but considering that theres enough to make sanctuary citys a thing, some places clearly have a lot of them.
>>84414461
>>84414782
Do you guys just not have a home depot in your town?
This thread disproportionate lack of cartoons and comic books.
>>84412516
The concentration of wealth in the hands of a chosen few stagnates the economy because a single person can only indulge that much. We need a socialist revolution. Followed by a slow trek back to capitalism, as soon as wealth begins to accumulate disproportionally again, we repeat the cycle. Money=power, so what's the difference between kings who inherit power and people who inherit riches? Revolution.
>>84415441
>We need a socialist revolution.
Kill yourself
>>84413917
>literally retarded
It would take a sharp mind, hard work and motivation to juggle full time employment and studying and perform as well as a average guy who is set financially by his parents.
>>84412445
>have no job or money
>starting a failing business improves this
This is what Americans believe.
>>84415455
Says a guy who's country was formed by the people revolting against their king.
>>84415441
The problem is that capital gains are too high. Its more lucrative to sit on money or invest in property.>>84415455
>>84415488
Exactly.
>implying a poor uneducated guy would have business sense, accounting or leadership skills
>implying a poor uneducated guy would have capital
>implying a poor uneducated guy would have a good business idea
All starting a business would lead to is failure and larger debts. You'd go from poor to a literal bum.
>>84415488
I have a friend who was out of work bought a used power washer for 65.00 washed his neighbor's house for 75.00 people notice started asking him to do their houses next thing he was buying a used pick up and making a shit ton of money he bought a plow put it on the truck and plows in the winter.
>>84415506
More taxes on capital gains then. Use it or lose it.
>>84415563
You don't understand economics even remotely do you?
>>84414431
3/10 bait. It's like home depot doesn't exist to him.
>>84414843
You live way too close to the border, then.
>>84416123
Not him, but I'm around 3 hours to Mexico. Not nearly as many illegals as he's implying there are here, but might just be because we're not a huge city or one of those sub-500 just outside of town.
>>84415589
I understand that you shouldn't earn money by doing literally none of the work.
>>84413752
what everyone else said, plus you know, internet and a working computer.
>>84412727
>Kids wash cars, mow lawns, (and used to deliver newspapers), and they have no starting capital.
Bullshit, the parents pay for the cleaning supplies and the mower and the money to make a cute sign and the newspaper delivery is just an example of an actual job for which the issue is still more people than available jobs.
Additionally, since it's cute and on a small scale "child businesses" are often overlooked for the numerous regulations and licences that are required to operate a business and can be very expensive. When "child businesses" actually make enough money to be competitive with a normal job the costs of doing business makes most child business models unviable without help from parents and there are even cases where a "child business" is really a parent business with the child as a front to avoid costs as long as they fly under the radar.
>There are people on this site right now who don't have a decent job
You better be posting from a library or you're a manchild who spends his limited money luxury items he shouldn't buy
