Why isn't diversity in comics and comics material done organically anymore? Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past be ause it wasn't to pander and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
>>84354253
Question of the fucking day, anon.
America lost its shit after 9/11
They went full patriotic with the war on Iraq but like that wasn't working, they tried becoming liberals with Obama but the damage was already done.
The moral is never go full retarded
Social Justice is "in" right now.
BLM and the push for a mirrion genders means it's more topical and by catering to SJW, you might get a bigger sales boost.
Back in the 60's Marvel introduced new black characters like Bill Foster and Robbie Robertson. It probably feels more organic because it's a sincere effort to get more black characters in comics, when compared to the new black female Iron Man.
Does anyone think Iron Man will be a black girl for the next five years? Does anyone think female Thor will stay female Thor forever?
Compare this to Black Panther, who began getting developed for his own solo series in Avengers.
>>84354253
>Nobody was pissed
I was. I was REALLY pissed about that.
>>84354253
>Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past because it wasn't to pander and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
You just answered your own question, in a way.
Because no one got pissed at something, some in the Biz feel that means they missed out on publicity and the attention it draws to what's going to happen with that character.
It's a genius formula, anon.
>drum up readers through engineered controversy
>if the old hero is replaced? Even better, now they have to read it to find out where the heroes legacy is going
>if they're angry, they'll bitch about it online, meaning word will spread faster about it, meaning more might take a look for themselves
>roll in dosh while also seeming progressive and politically correct even though most of them almost certainly don't even care, excluding fem-thor's writer and the like
And as you can imagine, marvel does this more because DC is bad at making sound economical decisions.
>>84354253
The problem now is the fact that all of this seem pretty fucking forced.
the worse exemple is probably the new squirrel girl comics.
It is done organically -- see DC. Casuals just don't care, though. For them, the new characters quite literally have to REPLACE older heroes.
you're talking about subtly, something many comic writers don't know about.
>>84354253
social justice or politically correct has been around since the 90s, the cartoon duckman sorta dealt with it alot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knIroVvPZU4
>>84354253
>it wasn't to pander and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
Why did you ask a question you can answer yourself?
>and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
Are you being sarcastic? Aquaman was specifically left out because they needed a woman and John was chosen over Kyle and Hal because he was black
It was pandering but it was good so it didn't matter. Just like every other diversity decision. People got over stuff like Jaime as Blue Beetle because the stories were good.
>>84354592
I thought that his pic was an example of diversity done improperly.
>>84354253
noone was pissed cause you didnt look at anonymous image boards when it aired lol
>>84354253
To be honest, Marvel is the only comicbook company that is actually pulling this retarded shit off, enither DC or smaller publisher like Valiant or Image actually do this becuase they actually put out decent material.
Marvel is just compensating how shit all of their comicbook releases have been for the past 5 or so years with wow factor by hopelessly catering to a demographic who doesn't even read comics and just makes noise about it on Twitter.
>'Look guys, Spiderman is now black AND latino, how inclusive is that, huh?
>'We made Thor a girl now, GIRL POWER amirite?
>'Guys Miss Marvel is a muslim now we aren't we great?
>'We felt we weren't being inclusive enough so goodbye Tony, hello 15 year old black girl!'
I wouldn't worry about it too much honestly, it's really not working out for them, the first issues sell, then the numbers take a nosedive.
>>84354535
social justice, womens lib especially, was huge in the 90s, the difference was that you were allowed to make fun of it on TV
>>84354685
DC has a lot of diversity legacies but they don't sell them like that anymore
Why isn't diversity in comics and comics material done organically anymore? Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past be ause it wasn't to pander and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
they are though.. the problem is marvel needs money and they way they do it is by stripping out all relevant story points and just give time magazine and bbc the titel.
miles morales story went from "new spider-man successor in the ultimates universe" to "BLACK 13 YEAR OLD BOY IS THE FACE OF THE NEW SPIDER-MAN"
like shit dude talk about feeding the controversy.
>>84354253
How was that organic? It was obviously done because they didn't want the team to be all-white or Wonder Woman to be the only female. If they'd gone by the comics John would not have been Green Lantern and Hawkgirl would certainly not be a founding member.
It ended up working out, so it feels "organic." But that's all it really means - if it works, we think it was a good idea all along.
>>84354711
I can only think of Mr. Terrific and Jaime right now. Who else?
>>84354711
More like they got Johns'd
>>84354750
Kid Flash in Rebirth now, I believe
They need to stop replacing old Superheroes with new ones and just create new characters .By replacing an existing character you’re saying “we do not have faith in diverse characters being able to sell books, so we’ll just shoehorn them into this already popular one.” We need to show them that we want new original characters and that they should have faith in them. We need more black Superheroes like Static, Icon, Black Lightning and Bumblebee .
>>84354711
And that's a good approach by them, honestly.
Sell them as 'The next X', not making noise everywhere on the internet ny advertising them as 'The next racially diverse X'.
>>84354436
Nobody cares, Hal.
>>84354793
>“we do not have faith in diverse characters being able to sell books, so we’ll just shoehorn them into this already popular one.”
But it's true, though.
>>84354253
Why was it that Earth ended up getting 5 different humans to be overlapping Green Lanterns? I know black Jon Stewart was number 4, wasn't he?
>>84354253
>Why isn't diversity in comics and comics material done organically anymore?
It was never "organic", it was always a conscious decision on the part of the creators. You're like someone on /tv/ who claimed a few weeks back that Star Trek was "subtle" in its social messages. It was a fucking brick to the face of 1960s America.
>Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past
Of course they were. If you ever read decades old letters to the editors in vintage comics or Usenet discussion archives, you'll see that comics geeks were exactly the same as they are today - shrill & reactionary to any change or story direction they didn't personally approve of.
>it wasn't to pander and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
It's funny how people only start complaining about "pandering" when they're the ones who stop being pandered to for a moment. And heroes were absolutely getting arbitrarily replaced in the past. Does Beth Chapel ring a bell? She took over the role of Dr. Mid-Nite in the early 1980s. How about Yolanda Montez? She was Wildcat. Inza Nelson? Doctor Fate. It's worth noting that all of them died and were replaced by their white, male predecessors because comics geeks, including writers, are always the same.
>>84354822
What about Kyle Rayner? He actually was Green Lantern on Superman: TAS. And then they made Justice League and it was like "no, no, Kyle can't come over and play, it's got to be the guy whose name sounds like a late-night comedian's."
I imagine there must have been some outrage from Kylites at the time.
>>84354793
No one cares about completely new characters with no ties to existing popular characters, they're right to not have faith in them.
>>84354253
If you had any familiarity with Hawkman and Hawkgirl you'd know this show was a slap in the face to both characters.
>>84354877
People just don't like seeing their favorite characters changed in any way. Look at George Takei. He doesn't like Sulu being gay even though he's gay and it's a tribute to him. But that's not how he thought of the character, so he doesn't like it.
Fine, most fans don't have as personal a connection with characters as the actor who played him, but the point is characters are our imaginary friends, or our imaginary better selves, and we don't want them touched.
>>84354253
Im still pissed her monster girl face turned out to be a helmet...
>>84354921
And let's face it, also a slap in the face to Aquaman. We forget that because this show helped prove to people that Aquaman wasn't lame, but obviously Hawkgirl took what should have been his spot.
Again, it worked, so it's OK.
>>84354253
>Why isn't diversity in comics and comics material done organically anymore?
they are though.. the problem is marvel needs money and they way they do it is by stripping out all relevant story points and just give time magazine and bbc the titel.
miles morales story went from "new spider-man successor in the ultimates universe" to "BLACK 13 YEAR OLD BOY IS THE FACE OF THE NEW SPIDER-MAN"
like shit dude talk about feeding the controversy.
You know, I've thought a lot about this and why it pisses me the fuck off. And you know what conclusion I've come to?
It's fucking LAZY. "Take character X, now that hero is ethnicity Y. Aren't we inclusive? Check out the new face of X! A new hero, for a new age!"
I'm going to use a character that I myself don't like or read at all, so forgive me if I'm not entirely accurate here. But you wanna know why Black Panther is Black Panther, and not, say, Black Hawkeye? It's because if you want to appeal to a new demographic, you should do it RIGHT. Take ethnicity whatever the fuck flavor you're going for, and build a NEW character around that identity. Black Panther is very clearly a black hero for black people. If that doesn't appeal to me? Fine, I don't need to read it. He's got his own series, with his own stories. He's not rammed down my fucking throat like femThor is if I want to read about norse mythology.
You don't need to change the identiy of something people have gotten really attached to to be inclusive. You can make NEW heroes, instead of changing old ones. Whenever they do change the old to be more "inclusive" what they're really doing is taking the lazy way out of writing a compelling story about a new character with new and maybe unfamiliar struggles that ethnicity faces.
What pisses me off isn't comics pushing new ethnicities to the forefront. It's them doing it at the expense of what's already there. And above all else it's FUCKING LAZY. Make some new heroes to represent these people, who can stand side-by-side with the heroes we pasty white manchildren know and love, as equals. For fuck's sake.
Who was the last completely new hero?
Who was the last one to get popular?
>>84355190
Deadpool?
>>84354864
Hal was first, Guy was his back up until he got injured then John became the back up, then John ended up a full-time GL
Then some bullshit happened and Kyle came along, then for a while the four of them co existed, then Simon Baz happened because reasons, then Jessica Cruz happened also because reasons
>>84354253
because it used to be natural and organic, now it's "take THAT white people/men/straight people" etc.
>>84354253
>>84354253
>organically
What?
Hawkgirl was the reincarnation of an alien who cheated on her husband because she wanted some black dick.
She was solely born for the purpose of being BLACKED and got horny as fuck when she learned she was going to breed black alien babies.
Even John wanted to break it off because he felt destiny was telling them to hook up as opposed to falling in love with her on his own.
>>84354407
Mantle diversity is the wrong way to go.
Mantle characters in general actually.
>>84355398
It's good when you introduce a new one without really getting rid of the old one, GL minus Kyle is a good example. Helps for adding in-universe history and new character relationships. Always addition over replacement.
>>84354253
replacing Kyle with John is Timm's biggest blunder
Bisexual Biracial Atheist with Autism here that has a negative privilege scote (I took one of those stupid tests) and I agree. I don't mind diversity at all but diversity for the sake of itself is meaningless and pure pandering to those that place character value on superficial things like race and gender. Some would call these people racists or sexists but this is 2016 and these people are considered "enlightened" today. Dicersity is fine or even good depending on the story, but diversity of character is the most important.
>>84354793
But nobody really goes for new characters with no ties to popular ones. That's always been a problem.
>>84354407
Right
Black Panther should be the face of diversity not the shoehorned trenddy replacement superheroes that get churned out every year
Sometimes character swaps do make sense like when cap was relaced by falcon. In the context of the story it seems logical because of who Falcon is. He's capable in his own right and established. He is Steve's friend and is worthy of the name of Captain America.
But a supergenius black grill outta nowhere is stupid
As an aside does anyone else find it racist that Marvel thinks an African-American director is the best fit for directing an AFRICAN (not american) hero? Like I'm black and what would I implicitly know about african culture and experiences compared to any other american?
>>84354253
>Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past
But that's wrong, McDuffie even made that video talking about how people were pissed about the minorities when he was writing too
It occasionally happens when they don't try so hard to make it about the "diverse" traits.
Take pic related for example, first volume was good and Billy, Teddy and Eli generally didn't feel forced at all, they just existed. Then came volume 2 and suddenly everything was "so gay!" "strong latina woman!" etc. which sucked balls because suddenly the diversity was more important than the story and the characters.
Not to mention that they aren't really utilizing the characters they already have. E.g. Northstar seems to have fallen of the face of the Earth and both Runaways and LoSH could practically support diversity central on their own but aren't even being published at the moment.
>>84354685
Yeah DC does diversity fine
Marvel goes full sjw
>Make a lame character
>Make them a non-white to shield them from criticism
>Give them another heroes identity so they'll be at least somewhat popular just for the name they took
It's sad because there are a lot of cool non-white characters that just fade into obscurity.
At least Night Thrasher's back.
>>84355899
Didn't people hate black Wally until old Wally came back?
>>84355398
This. Legacies are just lazy.
>>84354878
I was more mad that they used an irrelevant black guy, there's no blacks in my country so when i was a kid i hated "filler blacks" or as americans used to call them "token black guys". It's the same reason i hated Arnold, him having a black friend made no sense.
>>84355971
Because there wasn't any point to it.
>>84355097
I see this come up a lot and while I agree, I admit it's not really easy to do. Comics aren't super popular to begin with and most people who do buy comics are just buying the ones they're already familiar with, so it's pretty difficult to make a strong push with a brand new character.
What actually upsets me is that people are too dumb to realize they're being cheaply pandered to. They don't seem to comprehend that 90% of the time the company doesn't actually give a shit about their views of diversity, they care about fooling them into thinking they're helping their cause for a quick buck. They need to realize that instead of praising a story just for having a character with a diverse background, they should be focused on making sure those stories are praise-worthy. In the longterm they're not going to get what they want by encouraging every shit story just because it pretends to go along with their views.
More importantly, people need to stop trying to bend writers to their own views and desires. You're not going to get good diverse characters by forcing a creator to make them, you're going to get good diverse characters when a creator genuinely WANTS to make them.
it isnt. There's no such thing as organic fiction, old diversity is simply grandfathered in before you didn't care or you didn't really notice it. now that it's a hot button issue you see it everywhere.
>>84354253
That picture isn't helping your case, anon. You know that they picked John as the Green Lantern to use on the JLU cartoon specifically because he was black, right? Otherwise they would've used Hal or Kyle.
>>84355351
I see there are people on /co/ who take fanfiction as canon
>>84354253
I think the most important question here is why are black mutants so lame? Can anyone name one that could be considered good besides Storm and Sunspot?
>>84356530
>sunspot
>black
>>84356561
>>84354685
>'Guys Miss Marvel is a muslim now we aren't we great?'
I thought she was done right like Jaime Reyes? I don't read any Marvel but she's got a large following here and her comics seem fun and cute.
>>84356604
oh I thought he was indian. my bad
>>84354877
Best post in the thread by a country mile.
Because white comic nerds will never find the presence of minorities "organic"
>>84356964
and now it'll definitely never happen. We're at the point where people get mad when white characters are white.
>>84356964
I just don't like it when it's forced.
>>84356705
This is correct. Ms. Marvel is like Jaime, except Jaime's predecessor was killed off and Carol was promoted, so she's even less of a "forced replacement" character.
Honestly, everyone who's getting pissed over this on ideological grounds needs to chill out and focus on the actual stories. They're what matter.
Ms. Marvel is the best teen legacy character I've seen since Jaime Reyes.
The new Thor is written by Jason Aaron, whose Thor comics were already plagued with Captain Planet-tier tone-deaf political commentary. Her series didn't work for me.
Miles Morales is written by Brian Bendis, so I've stayed well away, I can't comment on his stories.
>>84354253
>Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past
You're kidding, right? Even in your pic, people did nothing but bitch about the black green lantern in JLU. They thought that Hal deserved it and he only got in because of Dwayne. How delusional are you to believe this bullshit?
>>84357029
but that shits subjective. Someone's forced is another person's organic.
>>84357153
The only reason people don't complain about John is because Justice League Unlimited was a great show that a lot of anons remember nostalgically.
>It's a Hawkgirl chooses the writer's self-insert over the love of her life for a thousand years episode
>>84354253
Because that was in a time when the media wasn't trying to garner attention from a new demographic that's becoming more and more socially aware and discovering that the decision to replace a character can momentarily increase sales.
>>84357411
not exactly true. These things go in cycles, we're simply at a very vocal peak but there were always these types in media
>>84357471
If you want a great example of this, watch the scene with the three college girls and the black crow in the beginning of Bakshi's Fritz movie.
>>84357033
That's great to hear, when I eventually start reading Marvel I'll definitely check whatever material of her I can.
I got a huge soft spot for Jaime. I absolutely love his 2006 comic, his unusual personality and methods, the setting, his design and abilities being different enough from Ted's. And Ted, even in death is treated with a lot of respect, not to mention showcased in the Brave and the Bold and even in Young Justice. I really, really love how BatB handled him. I genuinely believe Jaime is a hero that benefited of trying to make a "diverse" character, as insane that must sound.
Hell, I'm reading 52 right now and while I don't know how good a Question Montoya was, the passing of the mask was superbly done. How he taught her, made her ask question, hang out with her, their banter, training... Being a huge fan of the 90s Question run, Vic'shallucinations of events from that series in his deathbed made me almost tear up.
I'm just glad that, regardless of forced fuck-ups there is a good way of doing this kind of character.
>>84354535
Kek
>>84354253
you know this isnt an example of that, right? just letting you know. they openly said they included these guys for diversity
>>84357331
They don't complain about it NOW, because the show was awesome in retrospect and so was John. That didn't stop the complaints and ridiculous rumors when the show was going on though.
>>84356128
>having a black friend in the inner city makes no sense
>>84356128
>>84356128
A whole generation learned that racism and sexism were bad, but never actually learned why outside of shallow shit like "we r all human" or, worse, "all life is equal". Left without an adequate justification for having empathy, everyone became horribly racist and sexist, but they remained in a society where racism and sexism were looked down upon, so they started coming up with shit to make them sound less bigoted. Thus, social justice was born, piggybacking off genuine egalitarians who envisioned a society of equals instead of a society of racist white guys bending over backwards to hide how much they look down on everyone else.
Shoehorned minority/female characters are the creative equivalent of screaming "BUT MY BEST FRIEND IS BLACK YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE MY OPINIONS".
>Women are just less emotionally resilient than men and need to work from home or be in tightly controlled environments where dick jokes aren't allowed, or their inferiority will get the best of them. Chivalry isn't dead, we need to accommodate women because us men have the privilege of being the best. *adjusts snapback*
>Also, check out my new comic about black lesbian superman and his best friend, otherkin flash. Black lives matter.
>>84358945
calm down trigga
>>84358945
Did you have a bad day, Anon?
>>84358977
It's true. This shit is full of white upper/middle class white kids.
It's the pro-social version of "dark enlightenment" retards that never received adequate justifications and ended up forming their own opinions counter the norm. Racists that desperately want to fit in.
>>84359029
Someone literally shit in my cornflakes this morning
>nice day
>eat breakfast outside in the sun
>wow there sure are a lot of robins in my backyard today
>>84359086
So you killed them all, right?
>>84359189
No they just shit in my cornflakes so I went inside and got more cornflakes
>>84354253
Kid, the writers of JL got fucking DEATH THREATS for pairing John with Shayera.
>>84354877
This. DC introduced a load of black characters in the 70s (Lucius Fox, John Stewart and Mal Duncan, to name but three) because of a survey they put out in... I want to say late '69. The Daily Planet hired a black couple as columnists... who were then replaced by a completely different black couple.
Really, one of the things that made DC lose market sales to Marvel back in the 60's was that Marvel actually acknowledged that black people existed outside of Africa and maybe a few crowd scenes.
>>84356028
Looking back, it was really fucking patronising how Rocket Racer was turned into TROUBLED YOUTH GETTING MIXED UP WITH THE GANGS for the 90's Spider-Man cartoon. And that goes double for Robbie's kid, especially when you read the Lee/Romita Snr. run and see how father and son had a rocky but overall sincere and loving relationship
I just get tired of all the bullshit. You can't escape it anywhere. Even when I logged onto tumblr today something felt off. I just wanted to check out new drawings from my favorite artists and there's more "black lives matter" bullshit and what do you know. New mass shooting because niggers are super racist. And artists are supporting them. They gunned down cops in cold blood and artists support them and people share their art all over the web. Went on twitter and same shit there. What's insane is how insane it all is. I know some of those artists don't even care about it and just want to gain fans and views.
>>84359086
>wow there sure are a lot of robins in my backyard today
Well, I'm glad there's no black Robin yet, Bruce, cause if I was a brooding vigilante, that would be a good sign that niglet I took from the streets was beyond civilizing.
>>84354253
These two characters on this show are the reason I fell in love with comics again
The entire arc with John and shayera was fantastic. Their relationship slowly building up through out the show then falls apart after her betrayal, and JL's trust is destroyed. Shayera slowly gaining JL trust back and reconciling with john, then you find out they have a kid.
Shayera's face reveal, wew.
Lots of great stuff.
>>84354535
The internet wasn't as big, that's why the world was a better place.
>>84354878
Is that nightwing?
>>84359419
I thought the protestors weren't the ones shooting
>>84355582
Superman once was a new character with no ties to established ones.
So was batman
And spiderman
And thor
And hulk
And ironman
A new character can become important.
there's no such thing as organic - if dc were to announce a brand new black hero tomorrow, as organic as that is, y'all would still scream FORCED
>>84359510
>Time to edit Shayera back onto the OP
>fuck it, Bruce, just draw a beautiful picture and we'll just use that
That and the Viking Prince story where two great, shameless moments of just putting Timm's art on TV.
>>84359419
Sounds like you're the racist one anon.
>>84355651
>As an aside does anyone else find it racist that Marvel thinks an African-American director is the best fit for directing an AFRICAN (not american) hero? Like I'm black and what would I implicitly know about african culture and experiences compared to any other american?
It's probably just a compromise between getting somebody that's fluent in English so the studio can communicate with them more reliably and getting that genuine black cred.
>>84354253
Because back then people knew not to bring race into everything, we thought of it like hair color, as our endless 90's PSA's taught us to. Oh how times have changed.
>>84359645
This
X23
Deadpool
Spider Gwen
Harley
Batman beyond
Not the best choices but at the top of my head
>>84354253 Modern writers are obsessed with social justice bullshit, and SJWs are fundamentally stupid, unskilled people.
>>84354878
John's the only human lantern who really fits the "space cop" mold. This makes him a much better choice for a team as big as the Justice League and a worse choice for any kind of solo run.
Choosing Wally over Barry is a similar thing. Wally's personality just fits his "element" better. He's impetuous and he runs fast.
>>84359713
His style is timeless, for me at least.
It's like golden age but modern, probably why i loved The New Frontier so much, love that old timey style.
>>84359645
>characters that were created and became popular when comic books were the dominant form of entertainment fiction among teens and young adults became important
This is why John Stewart was popular. Because he was the Green Lantern for the DCAU which pretty much defined everything DC that wasn't Superman or Batman in the mainstream.
>>84354535
comedy is different from drama IMHO, and he's putting it on a pedestal more than most, even more than many people that create it
there's a valid point to be had though, dissenting opinions are important, and listening to them is important
>>84359645
Aren't those all golden age or silver age?
>>84359510
Faggot manchild. Grow up and stop reading cuck fantasy.
>>84359419
>I logged onto tumblr
there's your problem
Was diversity even on your mind when watching this? Because I rarely pay attention to race unless it's something like an alien race. Otherwise, they're just humans and it's inconsequential in my eyes.
>>84361108
No one asked for your opinion you fucking skrull.
>>84359510
>John takes off her helmet
>jaw drops when she's actually beautiful
>John takes off her bra
>jaw drops when huge tits pops out
great stuff indeed
>>84361108
People nowadays are more obssesed about a cast having the amount of diversity, gender, sex preference that pleases them, regardless if it's hamfisted, otherwise they won't enjoy it.
At least racists were just shunned back then, sjw are a whole new threat.
I personally don't care if the lead role is black or a woman or...a tranny, whatever, just as long it doesn't feel forced, preferably if it was written with said character in mind from the very beginning and not changed mid production to appease an angry minority that won't even consume the content.
>>84355224
Yeah, but he was largely designed as a direct ripoff. Doesn't make him ultimately unoriginal, but it's a blemish in this context.
Plus he was introduced 25 years ago--surely there's a more recent character who's had some success?
>>84354253
I'm pretty sure anybody who ever fielded fan letters on Iron Man after Rhodey took over or Green Lantern after John took over would disagree with you.
>>84359635
Yeah, it was one guy.
Fuck, and even that guy wanted to point out he wasn't part of the protest.
>>84354253
Because it's almost impossible to attempt it without pissing off...well, you know who.
Instead of genuinely well-written minority/LGBT characters who have other defining traits being smoothly integrated into something, they're shoehorned in and their presence is grandstanded for all they're worth (and almost always, end up pissing off the people they're meant to pander to in the first place). You can't kill them, you can't give them flaws, you can't do anything except Mary Sue the fuck out of them. Most people would rather not try at all.
>>84354685
See, and that's the key to all this. Do it and don't make a big fucking deal out of it. Don't make a big show out of LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE, just put stuff in and move on like it's not a big deal.
>>84355651
But what about bringing back Isaiah Bradley, people forget there was a black captain america already
>>84359430
uhhhh
>>84355190
define completely new
even Batman started out as a Shadow clone, Shazam - who everybody seems to think is some kind of great character - was just Superman if a little boy turned into Superman, and even his original publishers basically accepted that when they decided to stop publishing after DC sued them
but if you look at the two - these are wildly popular characters even back in the 1940s, far and away (at times) more popular than the things they were ripping off
Thor got a couple of movies that made a billion dollarydoos between them in 2011 and 2013 and is due for a third; Hercules had two movies in 2014 and couldn't make $300m between them, but that doesn't really imply that Greek myths are less popular or original than Norse myths, only that one character was presented in a way which was popular and the other was not
if you come up to the last decade or so, Marvel, coming out of near bankruptcy, tried desperately to invent new heroes - Araña appeared in 2004, in an anthology series that also ran numerous other new characters, including Amadeus Cho; subsequent anthologies have also attempted to introduce new characters, or at least flesh out long-forgotten characters (like the Agents of Atlas or The Twelve) who had basically one appearance in the 1940s or 1950s; the same is true of Groot (though another version was used in a Howling Commandos book just prior to being used in Guardians of the Galaxy, that book also died on its feet)
popularity is something else, though; it takes a long time to build a brand up to the point that it sells huge numbers, moreso in comics where next to nothing sells huge numbers
>>84361765
The Bradley's just can't catch a break.
Hnng I wish I could go back in time just to buy all these.
>>84361776
Oh.
Oooooh.
That sure backfired.
>>84362013
Holy shit, I want all of them.
>>84362103
actually I heard it was a pretty good series all in all
>>84362713
I'm glad, and I'll make sure to keep it in mind when i eventually start reading post 2011 DC stuff.
I was just making a joke and had absolutely no clue it existed.
>>84355190
Popular for casuals to recognzie without being seen as weirdos? Probably Deadpool or Venom
>>84354407
>new black female Iron Man.
WOAH WOAH WOAH.... This ain't real... Right?
> Googles it
> It's a thing
...So we now got our actually politically correct Samus?... Fuck everything. Fucking sjw shit.
>>84354535
This would have been banned if aired today.
My God.
>>84354535
A-fucking-men.
>>84354878
Kyle was doing space shit and showed up later in JLU
>>84354253
>dating Thanagarian scum
Traitor.
As a black man today's "progressive heroes are pissing me off severely. Especially since they changed my favorite fucking hero into a black woman. I have nothing against women in the slightest but this was a fucking dumb move, why couldn't she be Rescue instead? Why couldn't she be Vietnamese since they barely get any representation? I fucking hate Neo-Marvel with a passion.
>>84354682
Basically this. It doesn't matter if it's done organically or not...it's pandering sjw shit. Hell people still think ms marvel is nothing but a pandering sjw comic that is all about her being Muslim. It don't matter how organic it was. You only did t care Because back the no one gave a shit. Now you let all the bullshit get in the way.
>>84355190
Spawn
>>84356128
A white guy having a black friend makes no sense to you?
>>84357029
But you'll never see it as not forced whether it is or isn't.
>>84354253
I agree
we need more bird women in comics and cartoons
>>84364393
Unless he does.
>>84359354
I am very interested in: Black People
This is really cool though.
None of this is new. Even back in the 90s there were people who would get pissed at diversity. Read up on Milestone and how comic shops dismissed it as dumb black people shit and even other black comic companies called them Uncle Toms publishing "Superman in Blackface".
DC does the legacy/replacement characters just as much as Marvel. Aqualad (Kaldur'Ahm), Jaime Reyes, Duke Thomas, Kenan Kong, Black Wally West, Crimson Avenger (Jill Carlyle), Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz Green Lanterns, both Batwings, a shit ton of characters in Earth-2 and more. But for whatever reason they don't make a big song and dance about it like Marvel does so people don't even notice for the most part. Like once a year we get rounds of people calling for Superman to be black. Meanwhile there's ALREADY been 2-4 black Supermen (depending on how loosely you define it), a Mexican Superman and an upcoming Chinese Superman.
And even when totally new stuff is made, people still get pissed. LeSean Thomas' Cannon Busters pilot came out today and there's been at least two threads on here full of people compelled to shit all over it by insulting his art by pulling up 16 year-old drawings, making up rumors about how he's lazy and a credit thief, saying he only got where he is through affirmative action and, my personal favorite, "HE'S A MEAN OL' WAYCIST OPWESSING WHITE PEOPLE".Pic related includes black people, Puerto Rican people, latin people, a Muslim, a gay man and an ftm trans person. It was published in 1993.
>>84354369
We're about to go full retard again...
>>84355190
>>84355224
I'd like to say Kamala, actually. She might not be as big as Deadpool, but she is at least getting some casual attention.
Especially given the current political climate.
>>84354742
AND HE'S ALSO MEXICAN
AND HE'S ALSO GAY
AND HE CAN TURN INVISIBLE KINDA
BUT HE'S PROBABLY NOT GAY, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A PHASE
BUT MAYBE NOT, WE DUNNO
>>84357395
To be honest i like her better with John. The reason she will never be popular again is Hawkman.
>>84354877
>tfw this post will be largely ignored because it answers the question
>>84354742
>Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past be ause it wasn't to pander and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
Well that's the dumbest thing I've read in an hour.
>>84364081
Honest question.
Who the fuck actually likes Iron-Man?
>>84354793
The problem is that nobody has faith in new characters, let alone minority characters
If you asked 12 people that you're going to make a black superhero, I beat you at least half of them would automatically assume that all of the villains would be evil white men.
>>84365084
Miles was gay?
>>84364934
DC seems to be doing well because I dont read comics yet know all the Marvel characters because people complain but dont know any of the DC guys besides Aqualad and Blue Beetle
>>84365167
When Miles was first revealed, there were rumors that he was gay.
The Marvel staff queerbaited this with "HE MIGHT BE! READ THE ISSUE TO FIND OUT!" and then also helped spread the rumor in order to drum sales and to under cut the Bunker announcement. Because DC was trying to push Bunker.
>>84354253
Because it's not actually about diversity anymore. It's about controversy.
>>84365105
The popular version of her is shit.
>>84365234
I liked Bunker.
Him, and Danny the Street being a TT were the only good things.
>>84365301
>>84364934
>there's ALREADY been 2-4 black Supermen (depending on how loosely you define it)
Calvin Ellis, Sunshine Superman, Val-Zod, and... Icon?
>>84356604
What a bunch of shitty soccer players
Don't they know you're supposed to cry and pretend every bone in your body is broken when you get fouled?
>>84362013
I still have that superman
>>84365374
>Calvin Ellis
Make that 2-5. The other one was Steel.
Man I remember I used to ship these two pretty hard when I first watched it, I was young and the only exposure to batman was the JL shows so I never knew he was pretty much canonically destined to womanize a bunch of women and leave them all to end up bitter and alone.
>>84365447
I didn't think of him since he never called himself Superman and can't fly and shit.
Also there's BloodWynd, depending on how far you want to stretch it.
>>84365460Am I blue
>>84364934
The reason DC gets a pass is because they generally promote the character first, the diversity second.
It got the SJW crowd to whine during DCYou because of how the main Midnighter add didn't call out that he was gay, or how the We Are Robin promotional material didn't directly talk about their race and stuff like that. It wasn't necessary for the promotion.
They also tend to establish the characters to some degree first. Not always, but a lot of times and it helps a lot. They also tend to take up older mantels, forge new ones in the legacy, or they're on alternate earths.
Like Duke gets a bit of shit here by DaminaFags, and to a lesser extent Tim fags, but he's not going to be Robin, he's going to forge his own identity. Or how Steel is a black Superfamily member but he's his own man. I think that helps them stand on their own authority a bit myself compared to "Well we COULD give Riri a new fresh identity but if she's Iron Man she'll have a popular name!" or "Well Falcon probably won't sell as a solo title so let's make him Captain America instead!" and I mean Sam deserved it but I just got that vibe that they didn't want to actually take the risk of trying out a Falcon solo book. He'd never fucking had one and outside media was just finally promoting the character. He has essentially no worthwhile stories centered around him despite existing for about fourty+ years.
My biggest problem is honestly people who don't fucking pay attention but ask for shit or worse don't support it. I loved Midnighter. It was how I wanted to be represented. But when I tried to get gay friends who constantly tell me there aren't enough gay comic characters to support it they say "I don't like superhero comics." Then you don't get a fucking opinion. Or people who push for more female titles yet when a female title gets cancelled those same people are the first to say they didn't know it existed. All it takes is a solicitation app on your damn phone.
>>84365140
I do, he's a great character.
>>84365438
Fasten his feet down, then lean his torso forward like he's in a Smooth Criminal music video.
>>84365495
>he's going to forge his own identity.
Let's not pretend Lark isn't just going to be Robin-lite.
>>84365618
And Nightwing is Batman-lite.
Still his own identity theoretically.
>>84365495
Like Gotham Academy.
One white guy in the cast, and he's probably gay.
Does DC mention any of this? No.
Do any articles get written about it? Fuck no.
Is it a good book? God yes!
>>84365460
I don't remember reading anything about them together aside from just a few flirtations, but this show made me wish that Batman retired happily with her instead of that clusterfuck with Talia/Selena/Barbara/everyone else
All of this diversity shit is a big lie.
Nothing will ever REALLY change while the entertainment industry is controlled by Jews abd their white/female/gay lackeys.
>>84361108
When I was a kid I thought "Huh? I thought Green Lantern was white. Why did they change him?" But nothing much past that. The romance was annoying too, I just wanted to see Superman and Batman do cool stuff.
>>84362013
>>84365438
I've got the Batman. Want to come over to my house and play?
>>84366024
I have Flash can I come over too?
>>84362013
I don't remember most of those characters even appearing in the show.
I guess that means it's time for a rewatch.
>>84366149
The Matty collector line did some characters that appeared in the JLU comic.
>>84365984
back when I was a kid I was wondering who the hell was green lantern at all.
turned into one of my favorite JL heroes, right next to flash with third place going to Martian manhunter.
never been able to read one of his comics though not for lack of trying but I've got no LCS nearby. is there any /co/ recommended John Stewart stuff?
>>84354309
>>84354253
Perhaps it never was, and we've just gotten older, wiser, and better able to see the inner workings of editorial.
>>84366089
Sweet we can make a whole League if we get some more people. I used to love Batman the most as a kid, did you like Flash the most?
>>84366279
Read the early volume 3 stuff and Mosaic.
Volume 3 shifts focus on John, Guy, and Hal until become Kyle's book.
I'd say just finish up to the end of Marz's run on Kyle Rayner and then move onto volume 4 and Johns run for volume 5 afterwards even though they're about Hal they're mostly solid.
I guess there's also McDuffie's Justice League, and the new52 GLC stuff.
>>84366279
Mosaic, mostly.
I suppose give the stuff around COIE a try.
>people call me a racist/bigot/sexist because I don't want SJW shit pushed in my comics when those people don't even read or buy comics.
>my favorite comic character is Spawn, a black dude.
Irony.
>>84354682
>>84354877
>>84355520
speaking of GL, are there any other races with multiple active GLs like humans have?
>>84366760
Technically Sinestro and Soranik were GLs at the same time for a while
>>84354407
Also doesn't help that the marketing department decides what happens to these characters today.
Used to be a writer could come up with hundreds of characters and if a few get popular they would push those into their own books and stories.
Today however, markettign tells them to take the brand name of the character (Thor, Ironman, Spider-man, etc) and then just change the person behind the mask for the easy and marketable browny points.
>>84354793
>We need more black Superheroes like Static, Icon, Black Lightning and Bumblebee .
Personally only familiar with Bumblebee and Static, but damn did Static make a good cartoon.
Had this bullshit OC character ages ago that I never really fleshed out because I was, like, ten or whatever. Maybe younger.
>come up with character who could control the elements (fire, water, air, earth)
>didn't know the term at the time, but he was designed like an elemental creature, where he's made of the elements
>hair was fire, naturally
>had shades of ice because XTREEM 90s
>rock gloves (gauntlets really, but again, didn't know the term yet)
>no feet, just a tornado-y sort of bottom half
>LL Cool J was super popular around the time
>call the OC "Element Cool J" which worked with my kid ego because my name started with J
Fuck, I kinda want to revive it, but I can't draw for shit. I'd love to keep the universe XTREEM 90s. Suppose I could write some shit and have some drawfags who are interested make something.
>>84354253
introducing completely new diversity characters organically takes time and effort, why do that when you can just take the easy way out and replace an established character with a minority that is basically still the same character, if anybody complaints just call them racist.i feel part of my soul died just for acknowledging that
>>84363040
>politically correct Samus
Being a human/alien bird/brainsucking jellyfish hybrid wasn't politically correct enough?
>>84365335
HOLY SHIT! She is awesome!
>>84354535
Good to see people taking this clip out of context of the episode's storyline and saying retarded shit like "this would be banned today."
Don't forget this was a character known for having an "I'm right, fuck you!" mentality on everything.
>>84364081
Why don't they just make a new character? All they have to do is have a good writer and art.
>>84365460
How would you fuck a pussy that's almost as strong as your best friend?
Wouldn't his dick just get crushed by her amazonian walls? I know she's thirsty for his dick but has she considered that he's pretty fragile, you know? You think batman has already made a contingency plan in case he manages to sleep with her? Sounds pretty desperate on His part but it is his dick that's going to probably get crushed so he has to be very careful.
Can you even imagine Kevin Conroy making his cumming moans? "aaaughhh jok- diana, I am vengeance, I am the Knight! I, AM, CUMMINNNNNNGGG!"
kek
You think batman would let his guard down even for a woman like ww? Like he'll just hold his orgasm feelingsjust to not lose his cool in front of a naked, wet, vulnerable and intimate diana?
"Hera give me strength!"
You think Diana wraps her lovers dicks around their dicks?
>>84365105
Imo, she's in the same situation as Mera, where she's a better character than her husband.
>>84368938
Her lasso*
>>84354253
>Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past
It's two reasons, one is the obvious actual pandering, the other is all the issues being brought up has triggered conservative types hard and they're more sensitive about it whenever diversity stuff is brought up. Both sides of the same coin.
>>84354253
If this was done today it would be bitched about just as much here.
/co/ is whats changed not the content.
>>84364933
It's a genuinely fascinating look at how DC worked as a company back then, and how American media in general hadn't quite figured out certain things we take for granted nowadays.
>>84365495
>He'd never fucking had one
Weeeellll, he DID have a 4-issue miniseries back in '83-'84. Plus there was the 14-issue "Captain America & The Falcon" ongoing, but yyyyeeeaaahhhhh...
>>84365140
Bob Layton fucking loved Iron Man as a concept when he was reading the comics, but wished Tony would do more than fight Commies and worry about his heart. Then he got the chance to draw the best Iron Man story arc there's ever been (Ellis comes a respectable second).
>>84367631
>call the OC "Element Cool J" which worked with my kid ego because my name started with J
No lie, I love that.
Marvel doesn't really give a shit about their comics anymore, since the movies are when the big bucks are. Really, it's a somewhat painful attempt to make some extra cash of Tumblrites.It's no coincidence that the new Star Wars movie tried to do the same, and both are owned by Disney.
>>84369978
I don't agree.
I think JJ just drinks the Kool Aid, he wants diversity and all that shit.
>>84369990
Not that anon but bruh, TFA literally has a part where sheluke uses her ovaries to overpower the sith lord who has been training for years, and defeats him in her first prolonged battle, its fucking horseshit for white women feminists to think they too matter when in realitynothing matters, life is meaningless, there is no god, only zool
>>84368938
>"aaaughhh jok- diana
>>84370095
>TFA literally has a part where sheluke uses her ovaries to overpower the sith lord
u wot?
>overpower the sith lord who has been training for years, and defeats him in her first prolonged battle
-badly wounded- sith "lord" who is still very young and mentally unstable fighting in the snow on a planet thats blowing up against a un-wounded girl who's spent her life living in a harsh desert fighting off criminals and beasties.
>>84354253
this topic got me thinking that Earth-23 should get more stories, I mean a world where almost everybody is black? Perfect
>>84354253
Part of the problem is that there will be a shit ton of outside news about it.
Comics now have this cruel amount of monitoring by people completely unrelated to or don't read comics yet because coerage on a comic is as good or better than buying it (because it's like free advertisement) these people end up with more say in what goes into comics but also ass blast these moments of 'diversity' in comics without proper context.
Nobody gave two shits a few years ago that hawkgirl and jon were a thing because it's a kids cartoon. Now? OH LOOK EVERYBODY THIS KIDS CARTOON IS DIVERSE AND GOOD FOR YOUR CHILDREN LOOK LOOK.
>>84354253
>Nobody was pissed when it was done in the past
because there was no anti sjw who had to take the opposite extreme and thus complain whenever diversity existed
>>84367899
Well, tell that to the sjws that wanted miss Aran to be "a transwoman originally a man because no woman could have her figure because I'm not like Samus".
>>84372492
I thought it was more a creator made a joke and they latched onto it since that's what they do.
>>84354253
KYS
>>84355899
>Yeah DC does diversity fine
Like when they made all-new, all-different, all-gay classic Green Lantern instead of a new character.
>>84364934
>Black Wally West
This, was wondering if people here had that much of a short memory.
>>84354253
>>84354253
>it wasn't to pander and heroes weren't getting arbitrarily replaced
But that was exactly the case with GL and HG, you retard. The DCAU team explicitly stated they didn't want an all-white league and WW to be the only female. Do your research next time.
>>84365447
Not gonna lie, I actually liked Steel better than Superman. Was much better than the "other" supermen too.
>>84354253
What exactly was organic about shoehorning John into Hawkgirl's backstory so she could be ill fated lovers with him instead of Hawkman
It never was you just think it was because of conditioning.
In 20 years they will say the same about comics now thanks to fuccbois like you without a sniffle of introspection.
>>84356128
Are you saying it made no sense to you at the time because you didn't know any black people, or are you just a retard?
>>84355190
Invincible?
>>84355190
what about that guillotine one that got made for contest of champions, the one with a cursed sword?
>>84360466
Yeah, he's clearly the man child here
>>84374465
He was arguably the best thing to come out of The Death of Superman
There's a difference between introducing a new character who happens to be a poc or lgbt or whatever
And introducing a character as HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THIS THEY'RE A BLACK WOMAN AND SHE'S THE LITERAL B E S T CHARACTER IN-UNIVERSE ISN'T THIS GREAT GUYS
Just make normal characters who are poc
Don't make being a poc the entire focus of their character
