http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/06/dc-rebirth-brutalises-marvel-comics-over-advance-reorders/
>Once again, retailers are rushing to up their orders for DC Comics’ Rebirth titles, mleaving Mavel titles in the dust. Only Captain America: Steve Rogers #3 gets a look in, on the back of it’s Hail Hydra revelations, with Civil War II getting Marvel 2 in the top 15 – and DC the remaining 13.
>And, yes, Nightwing hitting the top – and Nightwing also being in Titans – is sign that Grayson love is growing.
Those are good news. Well done to DC, because they really are doing some great books now, and hopefully Marvel will follow, and they will try to add some quality into their current stuff. It will be good for the industry.
DC already considered Dick A-List when they made Grayson 3.99 and Nightwing is doubleshipping. It's no surprise.
>brutalizes
a little harsh Rich
>>84326859
I think the problem with Marvel is talent scouting more than anything. There was a fucking editor on twitter yesterday asking people for creator recommendations. It won't be painless, probably takes the failure of the new NOW for them to have some upheaval in their process, but the end result should be a new positive.
>>84326859
>>84326924
They just stopped giving a shit about their comics
Normies only go to the movies and that's where the big bucks are
>>84326793
>An event comic that also has number ones leads to higher sales
im so shocked
>>84326793
Good, DC's rolling out a lot of good books and it's nice to see people take an interest in it.
>>84326793
>Nightwing will probably sell more than Grayson despite double shipping because people only care about his name and outfit
>>84326976
At the same time Seeley is still writing so it won't suddenly become bad. Being anti-costume makes you just as bad as them. If he still has good stories it's fine.
>>84326968
The thing is, Marvel is also having an event that will lead to number ones.
>>84326994
Not buying a book because you want him in a certain outfit or having a certain name sucks, anon
>>84327042
I'm saying you can't spend time worrying about plebs or fall into the trap of taking a position opposite them just because they're dumb. Read good books and don't worry about it.
>>84327042
don't forget him having a gun triggered a fuckton of people
>>84326968
When DC does it it's fine anon, they're saving the industry!
>>84327230
It's true though.
>>84326859
I think it's also due to the fact people are getting tired of rehashes like civil war 2, and the appeal of shocking everyone by changing characters ethnicity/gender/sexual orientation is starting to wear off because people are becoming desensitized to it.
>>84326793
>RHATO on fifth place
Awesome
>>84326994
It's not about the costume, but the change back to generic poor mans batman.
>>84326968
>>84327230
>muh "REBIRTH IS A REBOOT"
>muh "REBIRTH IS AN EVENT"
And then, let me guess, you'll say, "Yeah it is. You're just deluded/shilling."
>>84326968
Speaking as someone who is predominately a Marvelfag, it's not just the relaunch and #1 boosts for me. Marvel truly is shit right now and DC is pretty entertaining.
>>84327382
I don't Marvel to die. Competition leads to better comics, and you'll notice the decline in Marvel's quality coincided with them dominating the market and DC not being much competition at all. DC is putting out good comics right now, and they're selling. This may be the kind of competition Marvel to start not being shit anymore.
>>84327372
That you're assuming this will be the case while ignoring the fact that it's one of the same writers and as described it's Grayson in a costume proves that you have a bias that makes you as bad as the ones you're shitting on. There's nothing inherently wrong with Nightwing just like there was nothing wrong with Grayson. The stories are what will matter.
>>84327230
DC is giving fans what they want.
Marvel is intentionally pissing off their fanbase for rage purchases.
>>84327388
>>84327511
>>84327230
Quite a few DC comics made it to 24 issues before the relaunch. Some even to 52.
>>84327486
Different anon - I thought the premise of Grayson, with him going undercover, was more interesting than Nightwing usually is. I agree it doesn't have to be bad or boring though, it all depends on what the writer does.
>>84326793
>Red Hood that high
This make me happy.
>>84327530
You do realize that you're posting in a thread about current sales not past ones, right? Everyone knows the old data.
>>84326793
I love it
Go DC, Go!
>>84327486
It's not about the costume, but taking him away from the spy stories to put him back on the streets. They had to rush the ending of Grayson for this. They can put him in his suit as a spy called agent nightwing for all I care.
>>84327530
Yeah and for a long time that was pretty true. Rebirth is a very unusual phenomenon for DC
>>84326859
Marvel is over. Disney ruined them
>>84327549
>>84327625
This is what I'm saying. Why do you think they're taking him away from spy stories when the run is going to be about him doing undercover work for the Owls? Have you not read a single interview or something?
>>84327625
IA, but there's still a chance that Seeley won't do street level stories. He seems to have some plans involving globe-trotting and stuff, so hopefully he'll get to do those.
He'll have to sort out that whole Owls thing first though, of course.
>>84327472
It's over. The better company had won
>>84327656
I say there's no way this'll be Grayson 2.0. They're going for a "traditional" approach with all the books. But it might still be fun with Seeley writing.
>>84326793
It's because Civil War II is a terrible mess of an event. Hopefully the summer sales will keep Bendis off of anything else this big for a while.
>>84327713
Marvel has like 6 big "terrible mess" events since 2012 and this is the first time they're not on top.
>Celebrating Reorders
>Reorders
It must have been really bad to be a dc fan if you celebrate this shit
Will Marvel ever get out of the endless cycle of event-"the new status quo"-event-"the new status quo" they've been doing for years? It's really tiring.
>>84327807
ANAD was kind of the beginning of the end I think. By the #2 almost every series (iirc only Deadpool and Iron Man were the exceptions) fell below what it was selling before that relaunch.
>>84326793
As someone who only reads DC out of the Big Two, I sometimes wonder if Marvel has really gotten that bad, or if it's just their turn to accumulate negative buzz. Either way, after years of "ON UR LEFT DC HUE HUE" I'm enjoying it.
>>84327633
So was New 52 for the first few months and then 2-3 years later sales started to wear off and DCYou destroyed them to the point where Rebirh needed to happen
They better hope Rebirth can last as long as New 52 or else people will get sick of them like they are marvel
>>84327807
If Marvel Now 3 absolutely shits the bed, which it might, maybe
>>84327853
Rebirth is built on much sturdier ground than the New 52.
New 52 sales didn't start to crash until around year 2 when all of the bad press and the bad books started catching up to them.
>>84327664
Don't worry, if DC ever does surpass Marvel for any length of time, things will flip.
>>84327775
Reorders are actually a good indicator of what's actually selling to readers. The standard orders you see on every monthly could have a variety of factors affecting them - whether they're high because of retailer speculation or (as is the case with some Marvel books) because orders are tied to the acquisition of variants. We don't know how many of those books actually sold to paying/reading customers and how many are sitting in bargain bins in the shop. Reorders are increases in purchases from retailers due to what is more likely than not actual purchase interest. The retailers underestimated demand and are adjusting accordingly.
Not surprised. I've always been more of a Marvel fan, but I'm currently reading only three Marvel books and all of the Rebirth books, including the Hanna Barbera stuff.
>>84327930
I think the carefully staggered rollout here is essential. You're not hitting the market with a huge number of #1s at once, making it hard for the cash-strapped buyer to decide, but there's enough time to figure out "do I like this?" with early titles and make room to try later ones.
>>84326793
>advanced orders
Two of the comicbook stores were out of all the rebirth 0s. The third one has an extra hundred of each not selling at all. Advanced orders are shit
That said rebirth >>>>> shit >>>>> CW2
>>84327965
>I think the carefully staggered rollout here is essential.
Exactly. Not only that, but the reduced amount of titles means they're not taking a gamble and publishing a massive gamut of titles that have 100 different creative teams between them. Most editors are focusing on one or two books right now, which means they're not spread thin over 5 books.
>>84327936
>>84327936
How is it a good indicator for books that the first issue issue isn't even out
>>84326976
shame, i'd like to see grayson more out of the nightwing costume
i think it makes himhotter
>>84327853
Eh, Rebirth so far is much, much different than New-52. New-52 launched all their books simultaneously and as a result had a lot of hard choices made from customers with regards to purchases. The general quality also had a wide spread. Rebirth is rolling out their new releases over a 3-4 month period, allowing readers to actually purchase every book if they wanted. Additionally, most every Rebirth book has been well received thus far. I can see the sales bump from Rebirth lasting much, much longer than what they got from New-52. And regardless, even with the drop from DCYou, DC is still selling much better than they were pre-Flashpoint.
>>84328004
I have no clue what you're talking about. Are you talking about not knowing the book's quality because the first issue isn't out? That's not what reorders are about. As I said in the post, reorders are a good indicator of what's actually selling to customers based on interest of purchase. People are interested in purchasing a product, the retailer ups the orders because more people than he expected want to buy it. If you want to see how "good" a comic is, wait until a review comes out.
>>84328005
Nightwing costume is hotter to me, but I could live without it.
>>84326793
i couldnt be happier, fuck marvel
>>84327472
This. Also, seems like one company dominating lead to writers leaving for image, which i am happy for
>>84327745
Secret wars was a mess but a controlled hickman mess. Which means it was great. Doubt they will top that for a long time
>>84328005
>There will probably never be a Grayson figure
It hurts.
>>84328825
Gone too soon, truly.
>>84328008
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Rebirth is a return to pre-52 canon, right? And the general reaction to New 52 went from "Why are they doing this? My favorite title is getting cancelled/arc is getting wiped" to "Did they even think this out first?" six months later.
>>84328885
>Rebirth is a return to pre-52 canon, right?
No. Rebirth does not reboot the New 52 nor does it "revert" canon back to the way it was. Instead it's a directorial shift to try to get back to what made people love the Pre-52 universe.
>>84328825
Well nobody really cared about Grayson or the outfit, so I don't blame them
>>84328885
>but Rebirth is a return to pre-52 canon, right?
Not really. It's still a new timeline, they are retconning in some stuff that they want to bring back like the classic TT but they aren't undoing new 52 stories.
>>84326924
>I think the problem with Marvel is talent scouting more than anything.
There's also the talent drain they experienced with so many creators leaving to focus on indies and creator-owned work (Fraction, Hickman, Remender, Brubaker, DeConnick, etc)
>There was a fucking editor on twitter yesterday asking people for creator recommendations
Which one?
>>84329005
https://twitter.com/AlannaWrites/status/750727387608969217
>>84328930
Eh, it sold pretty well for something without a well-known IP on the cover, and was overall pretty well-liked. It was a real Dickaissance.
>>84328885
What others have said, the New-52 still happened. They're just bringing back classic elements people missed - Superman, Wally, liberal Ollie, etc. - while keeping things that were well received - nuLex, etc. Basically, the best of both worlds approach.
>>84328885
>>84328978
Also I'll add that it's the same sort of thing we saw with Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis. Post-Crisis was still mostly canon but they retconned a few details here and there when needed.
>>84326924
Link? I have a list of guys I would love to see do Marvel.
Abbadon and Illuminated Guy and the mightygodking and Jim Sorenson and deepspace transmissions
>>84329033
>https://twitter.com/AlannaWrites/status/750727387608969217
>>84329175
This bulshit false diversity, he should really be asking -what comics are non-smoking, left handed lesbian astronauts of color making?
>>84329041
It was one of those "yeah the book is good but I'd rather he be Nightwing" kinda things
/co/ and CBR are basically the only places that 100% wanted him to stay a spy
>>84327353
How in the fuck? didn't they know lobdell still writing this?
>>84329033
>>84329175
>asking people to do her job
lmao
At least others gave her recs of people so it'll be interesting to see if they heed the advice or just continue on having the same 5 guys write half their line up
>>84326793
This makes seem like Nightwing took Nazi Cap and raped him until he agehao all over the page...no homo
>Now while I hate the fact that we put black people just to write things like Black Panther, what black creators would you recommend we put on our new black lead book?
>>84329368
But its true. Alot of writers/artist probably gave them shit in the past or are fairly well known. It doesnt take a genius to fucking google. And i bet they get tons of write ins and shit.
Its a lazy diversity affirmative action move by asking for Black females. No one wants to be a token.
>>84329483
>please spoonfeed me token creators because I'm too incompetent to recruit a diverse creator pool in both background and ability and now I am damage controlling because people have pointed out that all our books are written by the same 5 people
basically
>>84327471
What's wrong with current Marvel? I've seen some images of how full-on DIVERSITY and "We're the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party #BLM" they've gone while disregarding story and logic, but those are memes and I don't know how bad it's actually gotten.
>>84328930
It was consistently one of DC's top sellers
>>84329567
It has actually gotten that bad
The irony is their writer pool is basically all white men except for like two white women and their publicity hire black man on Black Panther
>>84329600
>30k is now a top seller
oh geez
>>84329567
They pretty much just copy and paste Trump speeches into their villains' word bubbles.
>>84329567
I don't even think the clickbait diversity legacies are the problem. DC had a bunch of those in the early to mid 00s and they were pretty much all likeable. It's just really poor direction in general. Bad editorial means it's just the blind leading the blind. And the constant, unnecessary relaunches that only add confusion rather than clarity.
>>84329685
The modern market is depressing as hell.
>>84329600
It was mid tier like Dick usually does, not a top seller.
>>84329704
Hell, most of Marvel's diversity legacies are likable and in halfway decent books
It's just the flagship ones that Marvel pushes like FemThor, Captain Falcon, and Miles that are in garbage books because Aaron is a hack, Spencer can't write without clickbait if he doesn't have Steve Lieber, and Bendis being Bendis
>>84329005
To be fair though dc expirenced a lot of talent drain due to Batman doesent sit style shit early in the nu52.
>>84329790
Even outside of legacies I think there are some SJW books that could have been good and carved out a niche if given proper direction. Something like Spider-Woman is just bizarre; I have no idea who that book is for.
>>84329704
Yeah. I like diversity, so I'm not averse to these characters at all, but whenever I see them done by especially Bendis, they seem so hammy. Like, that "Bobby, you're gay"-thing was so horrible and invasive, and no gay comic-reading person I know liked it. Same goes for a lot of his more awkward Miles Morales stuff.
And while I don't hate Mockingbird as much as much of this board does, it's still pretty ham-fisted, so it's not only Bendis.
I mean, not that capeshit has ever been subtle, but they really should try different writers on this. For instance, Ms Marvel is popular for a reason.
>>84329876
I think /co/ generally liked Mockingbird outside of the #3
>Ms Marvel is popular for a reason.
I think the problem is probably that Marvel doesn't know why it worked.
>>84327633
My understanding was that during the silver age, Marvel was the young pup of a scrapper, teaching the old dog some new tricks. Without Marvel, we probably wouldn't have the DC we have now, let alone the greatness of Bronze, Copper, and early Diamond eras of DC
Marvel made DC the better company, now it's time for DC to hopefully return the favor
>>84329704
It's the way Marvel is introducing them that's the problem really.
Cassandra Cain was around through most of No Man's Land before gaining the Batgirl mantle, a mantle that had not been touched in years. Wally was Kid Flash for decades before becoming Flash.
Zero Year gave us time to get to know Kyle, and Connor being Ollie's son helped smooth the transition over even if they were quick and abrupt.
Even the heroes who weren't built up over time had some kind of ties to their legacy. Ryan Choi was Ray's protoge for example. The universe is built around legacy.
Meanwhile Tony is STILL Iron Man in a big event and we announced his replacement who has only appeared like twice and has zero connection to him.
Miles just pops up out of no where. "We need a new Spider-Man legacy character? Oh she was locked in a box here she is she's always existed!"
None of it comes off as natural.
Laura and Cho on the other hand are well liked in their roles for the most part and that's because they were long time characters. The only real complaints are the typical "But she didn't want to be Wolverine." and "Did we need ANOTHER Hulk offshoot?" Falcon is mostly hated because of the ugly costume, the obnoxious marketing, and the fact that it screamed to a lot of people "We have zero faith in Sam Wilson sustaining a title as Falcon."
>>84329904
I gave it a try, I didn't like it, because it seemed weirdly cold and stiff to me, but that might have been the art. But yeah, of course I was referring to #3, which I didn't hate, but even as a female reader found mildly condescending.
>I think the problem is probably that Marvel doesn't know why it worked.
The answer is always, "good writer who gets the material", no idea why this is so hard.
>>84329685
30k is a great number for a B-list in the era of comixology, storytime and whatnot.
>>84329790
>Bendis being Bendis
very aptly put
>>84326793
I still don't give a shit about DC, even after Rebirth bringing back parts of the old DCU. But I'm glad their appeal to what fans actually wanted is paying off and Marvel's methods of affirmative action books, fucking over the X-Men/MCU reverence and annual relaunches are biting them in the ass and causing them to get smoked.
What are the best Rebirth titles?
>>84330011
I think Green Arrow has been my favorite but I've also enjoyed Aquaman. It's still kind of early though, a lot of the ones I'm interested in aren't out yet.
>>84329876
I hate Ice Man being gay and I hate that after years of "Characters outing the gay character and telling them they're gay is offensive" this one time was swept aside and embraced by idiots who don't read comics on twitter.
>>84330011
I haven't read Justice League yet but the only book I was a bit upset with was Wonder Woman honestly.
Wonder Woman was really decompressed and slow. I'm willing to give it time though I like the premise.
Titans has Booth and barely has started but issue 1 made me happy. It was just so nice seeing Wally back with his friends.
Green Arrow, Batman, and Superman have been my favorites so far.
Action, Green Lanterns, and Detective have surprised me as I don't like any of those writers. Aquaman has been pretty great too.
>>84329951
I don't think Editorial is asking strongly enough "what is the goal of this book, what is it about thematically, what are you building to within a reasonable time-frame because you know you're extremely lucky to get 12 issues, right?" No niche book can afford to be leisurely, but so many of them are.
>>84330047
That reeked of being an ego move. Bendis wanted so badly to put his mark on the character that he did not attempt to do right by Bobby.
Who was it that said "A strong DC is necessary for a strong comics industry"?
>>84330208
I think Brevoort said something along those lines
>>84327382
It's already dead. You're literally reading Disney Comics now.
>>84330047
I saw a lot of people making fun of it, actually, including Tumblr/Twitter-types. Some LGBT bloggers even used it as an example of how to do everything wrong.
I would love it if there was a second attempt at something like Ultimate Marvel but which actually sticked to the original concepts and didn't just become an edgier version of the normal line in 5 seconds
>>84330208
Any person with common sense
dc or marvel dying would kill the industry
>>84330376
>and didn't just become an edgier version of the normal line in 5 seconds
To me Earth-2 has proven that this is an impossibility. Comic book creators just clearly can't help themselves and need status quo to stop them from doing retarded shit.
>>84330465
That's Wilson's and editorial's fault.
Ever since Abnett took over, it's been decent.
>>84330376
Earth One OGNs are this, but OGNs are usually just something extra writers and artists do so one E1 book comes out a year or two come out in one year and the next year there's nothing
>>84329567
Marvel is fine. They've got Vision, Ultimates, New Avengers, Ms Marvel, Captain Marvel, Gwenpoolfuck off it's fun, Spencer-Cap, Howard The Duck... plenty of quality titles, even if they've also got a load of Bendis.
Anyone who thinks that either of the big two have been quote-unquote "good" any time in the last 25 years is delusional.
>>84330523
>They've got Vision
It's canceled since King signed on with DC, isn't it?
>>84329876
>>84330047
>>84330348
From what I've seen there are two camps of "diversity in comics!" types: those who don't read them and celebrate Bendisshit, and those who do and absolutely hate the fact that Bobby-You're-Gay et al is embraced by the non-comic reading public despite how terrible it is.
>>84330539
King's last issue is #12 so they will probably end it there, yeah
>>84330539
It was always going to be 12 issues at best, because it was never going to be a big seller.
Unless you're saying it's cancelled before reaching its conclusion, with several issues left to go...?
Anyway, my point is more "people have been lamenting that X company is shit forever", and they always have been. Capeshit, on the whole, is a few diamonds in a sea of turds.
Hopefully this is the slap in the face Marvel needs.
How long until Marvel reboots? Obviously they won't call it a reboot but it will be one
>>84326793
>pre orders
so this just means that comic stores will go out of business because they cant sell there 5000 copies of various #1's? didnt they learn a lesson with valiant and image?
>>84330954
All comics sales to shops are preorders
>>84329704
>DC had a bunch of those in the early to mid 00s and they were pretty much all likeable.
The thing about DC is that they knew when to admit they fucked up and give up on a token/legacy characters. Nobody remembers Wilcat's latina niece that became the second Wildcat after CoIE or Dr. Midnight's mulato son, but Marvel can't let a bad idea go, they just keep pushing and try to conviece themselves only racists dislike the character. And honestly, now that Marvel comics is just a big pool script specs for Marvel Studios, you can expect this to get worst.
>>84331512
>Wildcats latina niece
I do remember her, she was in Infinity Inc. for a while.
>Dr. Midnight's mulato son
Now that's something I do not remember. Where was this brought up?
>>84326793
As happy as I am for DC I really don't want /co/ to become companies wars central like /v/
>>84330931
Marvel Nower is coming in the fall.
>>84330931
It's already been announced. Marvel Now Again.
>>84326865
I think you mean when they made him the goddamn Batman
>>84331655
>become
Where have you been the past few years? Console wars shitposting has been an ongoing thing for a while now.
Months ago I pitched the idea to co of DC pruning their line to say 12 books, and doing bi weeklies. I got shit on.
Rebirth is awesome right now, all its missing is a legacy drama book. Like the way John's kinda crafted all his major pre new52 projects, on the low in smaller books + character interaction variety like JSA or 52 had.
A book that was just smaller arcs and events annually like new 52 JL, that would effectively work as seasons. Featuring A, B and C Listers like 52 or the JLU cartoon, where character inclusion per arc is only who is necessary for the best story only. And have John's write that with Reis, Frank's, and 1 or two other artists that John's nailed it with. bam. That book would allow the Manhattan rebirth arc to be its own thing without diluting it, and only x-over when totally necessary.
>>84331512
>Nobody remembers Wilcat's latina niece that became the second Wildcat after CoIE or Dr. Midnight's mulato son,
Honestly, this would've been fine for the Infinity Inc comic because Earth-2 was all about legacies of the GA heroes. The real problem was that when they got folded into the regular DCU that they didn't really have much to do.
>>84332155
I'm pretty sure DC does steal ideas from us. I've been saying for a while that they should just have white Wally run out of the speed force and have two Wallys. I've also said that they should leave Bart in the 31st century a bit and he was there in the KFC special.
Good 4 DC. I like Marvel & all but I'm not intended in most there chars.Only Marvel Comic's in reading are these.
>>84332276
You should read Vision too, not a bad selection though
>>84330523
>Vision
Good but ending
>Ultimates
Only good because it pokes fun at how awful Marvel is with good concepts. The Galactus stuff is "its a good idea, but I know as soon as I'm off the book he's going back to being a flying purple planet eater".
It's drawing attention to Marvel's weaknesses as a story teller.
>New Avengers
Haven't read any so I can't comment
>Ms Marvel
Mediocre "awkward teen hero" book. It's using the old formula patented and perfected back in Lee/Ditko Spider-Man. It's okay but its not something that should be a tentpole of the company.
>Captain Marvel
Haven't read, can't comment
>Gwenpool
Meme tier trash
>Spencer-Cap
HAIL HYDRA
>Howard the Duck
I picked up the first trade because I like Howard and started to regret it when black girl sidekick popped up. When it got to the gas station rant I almost put it down. I did put it down when the Squirrel Girl crossover happened.
So no. Marvel is not fine unless Captain Marvel and New Avengers are somehow these phenomenal books that I haven't read.
>>84332155
Continued...
Season 1 - Barry, wally, Batman and Titans investigate their recent developments on the stolen time.
Season 2 - Manhattan arc pt1
Season 3 - The Time Has Come. Bam you finally fucking fold the post crisis and new 52 timelines
Season 4 - JSA WWII launched, the JLU finds them with the Legion and rescue them from wherever Johnny Thunder hid them.
Season 5 - Manhattan arc pt2
Season 6 - JSA/JLA/Legion/GLC/u name it (basically our worlds at war style massive event with old school crossovers ) vs the big bad
Filler arcs in between seasons could finally retell stories with the proper new history, like what happened post convergence with the CoIE etc
>>84330931
Who is going to be God Doom this time? Thanos?
He destroys the multiverse and the pieces fuse to become Death World where people fight and kill each other until he's stopped by Carol who becomes the architect of the new universe?
>>84331512
Imagine if they were currently trying to push Nu Power Girl like Marvel is pushing Re-re.
DC is nowhere near as cucked as Marvel is right now.
>>84331660
I wish they had called it Marvel Nower, that would somehow be less ridiculous than Marvel Now because at least it'd be a little funny.
>>84332415
>Nu Power Girl
Tbh, i liked that they saw how bad that was and simply forgot about her
>>84332487
Did they forget her? She was in TT pretty much every issue after her introduction.
>>84329485
Which is funny because it's what people literally asked for following the Iron Man/girl announcement. Continuously pandering to a demographic is a zero sum game.
>>84332512
She is nowhere to be seen on the Rebirth line up, unless the rumors that the Super sons book became the new young justice are true
>>84332459
I'd find "Now, Marvel" to be pretty funny.
>>84332538
That entire lineup is benched outside of Tim. I don't think it means anything about her specifically.
>>84332018
Things could get worse though. Most of it has come in the form of MCU vs DCEU shitters from TV; we haven't had much comic company console wars yet but it seems like we recently have received an uptick of it
>>84332733
>we haven't had much comic company console wars yet but it seems like we recently have received an uptick of it
Around the Nu52 starting was when console-wars started, DCasual and Marveldrone really took off thengood ole /v/ cross-posters. Nowadays it's DCucks and Marvelkek though which is more of a /tv/ thing. Just as terrible.
>>84332848
This really shouldn't be unexpected. People form their camps all the time. Look at American politics for a great example.
>>84332733
>recently
When new 52 started people here were shitting on DC as hard as people are shitting on marvel right now
>>84332848
You are pretty underage if you believe that
Secret invasion times were terrible
>>84332619
That would be better, as well.
>>84333067
I just wasn't posting on /co/ then. I came here around the time Final Crisis was wrapping up.
>>84332619
I've been thinking of it as Marvel- Really, Now?
>>84328825
Not even a shitty Funko Pop.. :(
>>84327992
it doesn't really matter since those are returnable. Better for stores to over order and make sure all their customers get their Rebirth Fix instead of losing them to another store. Now if this was Marvel they'd be fucked.
>>84329562
>Stop, you are oppressing me by telling me that this is my job and I shouldn't ask other people to do it
This is fucking stupid, I know DC got rid of her but Shelly Bond didn't get Tom King by asking around people on Twitter.
Also, doesn't Marvel have it's own Creator Program like DC? I mean that's a pretty bad blow to your identity if someone manages to get in because of Twitter Recs and because of being Black and Female when you're the one who puts the effort to actually get in.
Also, it's not like Marvel's Talent Search Program is anything spectacular, literally majority of their new talents originated from popular Webcomics.
>>84330954
Reminder that DC Books are Returnable (Obviously Marlel's aren't).
Who's the new Iron Man?
>>84329175
Damn that's terrible. That's where Marvel get these shit writers from.
>>84330523
So you list a bunch of titles you like and then say DC and Marvel both suck. Oooookay.
>>84334776
Karen Berger got King, not Shelly Bond.
>>84335198
ah my wrong, she's also gone though.
DC coming roaring back is great for the industry. I think Marvel had the right idea with their new characters and the diversity, not in terms of color of characters, but style and tone, of their offerings, but the constant reboots and events are numbing. Civil War II's biggest crime isn't that it is bad, although that is unfortunate, but that it feels perfunctory. Back when Bendis was at his height, a lot of folks hated his stuff, but you couldn't say the dude didn't build up to his events. All the movement he and the rest of the company did from New Avengers #1 up through the Heroic Age felt like a real movement; like one big story. Didn't mean it was all great (some of it fucking sucked), but it wasn't lazy.
Stuff like CWII and Assault are fucking up good books like Sam Wilson and Uncanny Avengers and Ultimates. Obviously they erred by not giving Tom King whatever he wanted after they got those Vision scripts, Rick Remender was driven away after being treated like shit when he was the best writer they had, and the guys they've gotten to stick around (Slott, Bendis and Aaron) have kind of slipped into repeating their greatest hits.
DC spent the better part of a decade wandering in the wilderness and they've got it figured out. I think after owning the industry for the better part of the 21st century, it's time for Marvel to get punched in the nose and see how they can recover.
Also, like most adult comic fans with taste, I realize the best stuff the industry has seen since the Bronze Age is now coming out of Image, so we're doing pretty well as Western comic fans.
>>84329175
>>84329483
For future use
>>84335172
No, I'm saying that this platonic ideal of "good comics" where every book is great that Marvel and DC are constantly shat on for not living up to is a falsehood. The number of good books at any given point from either company remains pretty much consistent no matter what.
>>84335377
>Obviously they erred by not giving Tom King whatever he wanted after they got those Vision scripts
Part of me honestly doubts this was the case. Being brought in by Berger, groomed with Grayson, and then given his own series with Omega Men (and soon enough, Sheriff), it seemed logical as hell that King would stick with DC. Of course, Vision might have been a bargaining chip and/or a way to not be too invested into one thing so early on. But I think he always planned to be a mostly DC writer, and given the opportunity to increase his name by working on Batman -- while also being able to 1) keep working with Mark Doyle, 2) still communicate with Seeley and even Orlando, and 3) bring in some friends like Bellaire, Workman, etc. -- I think becoming DC-exclusive made more sense.
Taking on more Marvel projects, conversely, would be getting further and further into their way of doing things -- and I wouldn't be surprised if working on Vision and hearing stories from Marvel freelancers made him uninterested.
I guess readers are sick of Marvel's blatant SJW agenda.
Should I pull Nightwing? I've never been a batman fan and haven't read any batfamily books ever (short of killing joke).
Currently pulling Titans, Flash, Aquaman, WW, Action, Supes and JL.
>>84335801
Seeley was good on Grayson and Nightwing sounds promising
it's hard to judge until the first couple issues are out though
>>84327382
>>84327682
>>84330317
the good guys do win sometimes
Anyone who says DC is saved and is coming roaring back either has short term memory loss or is a sycophantic part of the problem.
>>84327775
>Celebrating Reorders
My LCS is still selling out of Rebirth and Rebirth #1's. This shit is really fucking selling.
>>84335861
DC has been second for the longest time, then they jumped up with 52, came back down to their normal numbers, then sunk with Convergence and DCYou. They were really doing poorly for a little while there.
>>84326924
>I think the problem with Marvel is talent scouting more than anything
Well it helps that Marvel has hired one of the ex-Wizard people (and all around shit DC editor) to rectify this. Top kek.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/rickey-purdin/4040-61831/
https://twitter.com/rickeypurdin
>>84335710
Tom King was formerly a Marvel stooge and protege of Chris Claremont (before whatever shit he did for the CIA). So it's very strange that he jumped to DC.
>>84336023
And nothing has changed except for reverting back to number ones and continuing the irreversibly tainted New 52 universe with mild superficial changes that indicate bad ideas still reign supreme.
>>84336086
He was an intern at DC too for a while iirc, I recall he said he worked at both before he got CIA'd
also he came back to comics with Vertigo & DC, even if he'd been more of a Marvel guy before maybe he just had more opportunities at DC
>>84336101
>that indicate bad ideas still reign supreme.
Yeah, like race changing characters and new status quo every time ?
>>84336143
I'm not trying to continue company wars, I'm just saying that calling DC saved after a few mediocre issues is absurd. This is the same company that brought us the New 52, I don't know why people seem to forget that.
>>84336178
and the new 52 was not as bad as people say and some of those mediocre issues are actually great so yeah
>>84336178
New-52 had a lot of good stuff though. Some unfortunately can't see past the NOT MUH clouding their eyes to see that.
>>84336208
>>84336254
So now we're defending the unmitigated disaster that was New 52? Are you really that forgetful?
When are the actual official June sales going to be released?
>>84337277
Next week, I think
>>84326859
Marvel at this point in time is 100% reliant on movies getting people interested in their books. There is 0 quality in any of them.
If DC had movies on par with Marvel's plus a franchise as huge as Star Wars is right now in comics then they'd be permanently ahead of Marvel in comics sales.
>>84326793
It's yet another event in a long series of events, and comic fans were entirely predictable in their response to it. Let's see how the titles are selling in a year when the "new shiny toy" interest has worn off a bit. But DC certainly has all the momentum right now between the "big two."
Meanwhile, Marvel is an absolute train wreck. They won't just need to "reboot" at that place. Disney is going to have to enact a Night of the Long Knives solution by easing Quesada's fat bulk out of the company, along with guys like Brevoort, Bendis, and Alonso (while ordering their remaining writers and editors to start acting a bit more apolitical in their stories and less SJW) if anything is going to change. But there's not a lot of hope of that ever happening in the near future. Too much free publicity by trying to race replace Spider-Man or turning Iron Man into a 15 year old negress. So they'll continue to ride the elevator straight down.
>>84330523
>Anyone who thinks that either of the big two have been quote-unquote "good" any time in the last 25 years is delusional.
DC/Vertigo was objectively great during the 90s.
>>84329164
>Check mightygodking's blog
>It's almost all political horse race shit.
Yeah, that's exactly what Marvel needs now. Fucking Ezra Klein as a writer.
So when are Manhattan and Ozymandias going to fully show up?
>>84336584
New 52 was a horrific clusterfuck in terms of continuity, and fucked characters over in a way they're still recovering from, but there were good titles, like Dial H and Demon Knights. And some of the later DCYou titles were great as well. So yeah, it's always an interplay between good and bad.
>>84337958
Next year.
>>84336101
New 52 was successful. It was Convergence and DCYou that were the failures and DC quickly came up with Rebirth to fix all the issues that came up over the past 5 years.
They're basically giving everyone what they wanted. And it worked.
>>84326793
Maybe Marvel should start hiring artists that can actually draw and writers that can write without leaning on the crutch of shock value.
>>84338074
52 was a failure in every respect, convergence was testing the waters for rebirth.
>>84337741
Will the new Iron Woman become a single mother?
>>84335486
But it's DC that has Christopher Priest doing a book that's not a Black Guy. Don't pull the typecasting card when your famous Black Guy Comic is being written by your famous Black Guy.
>>84338074
>New 52 was successful. It was Convergence and DCYou that were the failures and DC quickly came up with Rebirth to fix all the issues that came up over the past 5 years.
>They're basically giving everyone what they wanted. And it worked.
Out of curiosity, what was a failure on DCYou and the New 52 (since you said over the past 5 years) that was the issues Rebirth fixed? What has Rebirth changed?
>>84332355
>good but ending
Marvel is heading for another relaunch. Almost all of those are ending.
>>84338324
Even Ultimates?
What the fuck, I actually liked that one.
>>84338201
It turned off some fans, interested others, and brought in a lot more. It was a success and they topped the charts for months. And then things settled down and they were back to normal.
>>84338308
Convergence was a filler event because DC was moving. The problem was that there was little hype and pretty much all of the talent was C-tier and below, with veteran writers and artists helping out. It sold poorly and a lot of people lost faith in DC. This kept right into DCYou and the titles weren't selling that well outside of Batman, Harley, and Justice League.
So Johns, who allegedly was against New 52, got the chance to undo it as much as he can while making a statement about the Watchmen comic setting a tone for comics that he felt wasn't entirely good for them.
Rebirth makes it so that the universe was never really rebooted, it's just that someone stole ten years from their lives and is working behind the scenes to warp the universe to what he wants. But it's being undone and people's stolen memories are coming back. So now that someone, Manhattan, will likely step in at some point.
Superman is the only irregularity as he was away from the time stream when Manhattan came in and so the Superman proxy was put in as a replacement. The proxy died and the original Superman is back as the rest of the universe is trying to figure out what it once was.
>>84327353
what mothefuckin awesome image
>>84338201
Except for you know.....sales, which were up massively from pre-52.
>>84338645
short term gains, long term brand damage, that's the Nintendo strategy and it doesn't work.
>>84338707
But even the lowest New-52 sales 5 years in were still higher than pre-52.
>>84338740
are you trying to tell me that nu52 had higher sales than the 90's comic bubble?
>>84338850
Obviously not but still higher than they were in the few years before the New-52. If someone tells you
>for the next 5 years you're going to have higher sales than in these last 5 years
it'd be pretty stupid for a business to not take that.
>>84338943
I still have a hard time believing that the lowest selling nu52 title outsold blackest night
>>84327682
Nothing ever ends, Ozy.
>>84339036
I don't mean title wise, I mean total sales line wide.
>>84339084
Anon he's being retarded on purpose. Stop responding.
>>84336050
Wasn't this the guy who drove off the Static writers?
