The series, revealed at Entertainment Weekly, comes from writer Mark Waid and artist Humberto Ramos; Alex Ross turned in a variant cover for the series. The new team book will star former "All-New, All-Different Avengers" characters Nova, Ms. Marvel and Spider-Man. Joining them is Amadeus Cho, the star of "Totally Awesome Hulk," as well as the teen Cyclops (previously seen in "All-New X-Men") and Vision's daughter Viv, who comes to the team from the synthezoid's series.
>It’s a strange time to be a young person. Even as old social and political institutions get rocked by unexpected outcomes from the Brexit vote and Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, youth movements and start-ups are reshaping the landscape of business, technology, activism, and entertainment. Things aren’t any less chaotic in the Marvel Universe. In the wake of huge conflicts like Secret Wars and Civil War II, faith in traditional superheroes has been somewhat shaken.
>The new series Champions, from writer Mark Waid and artist Humberto Ramos, features a group of young Marvel heroes - Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel, Miles Morales/Spider-Man, Sam Alexander/Nova, Amadeus Cho/The Hulk, Viv Vision, and a younger version of Scott Summers/Cyclops - splitting off from their Avengers forebears in order to change the world themselves. Although there will still be villains to fight and problems to solve with superpowers, Waid and Marvel say this team of Champions will channel more youthful activist energy than Marvel’s traditional superhero teams. Below, Waid and editor Tom Brevoort tell EW about the formation of the team, their unique goals, and whether they’re bracing for backlash similar to the recent Captain America controversy.
>ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: How does it change the dynamic of a group to identify more as a youth group than a standard Avengers-style team?
>>84275527
>MARK WAID: You’ll know we’ve failed if by issue 5 the Masters of Evil show up and there’s a fight with the Absorbing Man. Clearly at that point we will have been a victim of mission creep. Tom and I talked about how there’s been a very interesting generational shift in the last 15 years. When we were growing up, the general perception was it takes adults to fix the world. Kids can do little things, but basically you have to wait till you grow up to make the big choices and the big decisions. Well, Mark Zuckerberg would disagree with you. Some of the other young trend-breaking scientists that are coming to light, online especially, would beg to differ with you. Those are the inspirations, as much as anybody else, for the idea that we don’t have to wait until we grow up to be Tony Stark or Captain America to make a difference in this world. We’ll find our way, and we’ll find our own way.
>You have some of Marvel’s buzziest characters here, like Kamala Khan and Miles Morales. How did you decide the lineup, and what is Scott Summers doing here?
>WAID: The first three (Ms. Marvel, Spider-Man, Nova) are the kids who quit the Avengers proper. That was an easy get. Those three, in and of themselves, form a nice little subteam. Their dynamic is great. They all show up in each other’s books, and even though they have their arguments and stress points, clearly they’re good together. That was the starting point. Tom, I believe it was you who suggested Amadeus Cho.
>TOM BREVOORT: The Amadeus Cho Hulk worked for me because one, it’s a very primary character. The Hulk is a very core Marvel Universe character and that kind of gives a little more legitimacy to what you’re doing. And anytime you have a Hulk in a group situation, it’s a more volatile situation, even if it’s an upbeat happy Hulk. We thought that was pretty good for potential drama and interest.
>>84275507
So basically Marvel Teen Titans or another incarnation of Young Avengers but with a different name. Looks like the ANAD experiment is over. I wonder how hard this title will be pushed. Without "Avengers" on the cover, I can't see this selling more than 30k. I assume something respectable at least.
>waid
>ramos
Oh dear.
>>84275507
>Ramos
>Cyke free of the benis.
Can he just get rid of the x logo?
>>84275550
>WAID: I think Viv Vision was also Tom’s suggestion, but that was a no-brainer because I love what Tom King has been doing in the Vision book. It’s my favorite Marvel comic. So the moment that suggestion was thrown out there, it was a lock for us. And man, I’m in that tiny sliver of people who think Scott Summers is the best X-Man there is. I’ve loved Scott Summers ever since I first started reading X-Men comics back in the mid-60s. So I campaigned quite heavily to get young Scott Summers on that team. My primary goal was for the doubters: By the end of issue 1, I can make you love Scott Summers.
>BREVOORT: This is the young Scott Summers pulled from the past. In my head, he’s kind of the first challenge the group faces. Which is to say that when they get together and start to do this, what they’re doing is not just putting together a superhero team, they’re more like activists. They’re making an inclusive statement that they mean to be for all members of their generation: it’s time to get together and stand up and fix the world. This is a message that goes out and people come in response to it. Cyclops shows up and goes, “Boy I love what you’re putting down, I’d like to be a part of it.” It’s kind of like Kid Hitler showing up at the door. The older Cyclops has done some stuff. He’s a hugely divisive figure in the Marvel universe, so the first question these kids have to answer for themselves is, should we let him be a part of this? Is his very presence going to taint what we’re doing? His older self became a radical and a revolutionary and did awful things, but is it the same guy? And that’s kind of why he’s there I think. He wants to go down a different road than his older self did.
>How did you settle on the name Champions?
>>84275507
>Viv manages to survive past The Vision
color me amazed.
>>84275569
>BREVOORT: Champions is sort of like the great lost Marvel team name. We published Champions in the ’70s and haven’t been able to publish it since. We’ve now come to an agreement with the people who held the mark before, which allows us to publish it and they keep doing the things they were doing. So basically it’s like this name, that I think of as a fundamentally Marvel name, is coming back home. It feels good in that, when we first started talking about names for this group, we tended to go for “something something Avengers.” That always seemed off-mission for me. If they’re cutting the cord, if they’re going off on their own to establish themselves as a thing onto themselves, they kind of need their own name. They are ultimately very socially conscious, very activist-minded, and very positive about being superheroes, so the name had to feel like a really upbeat superhero name.
>Marvel comics always feel at least somewhat in-tune with youth feelings and movements. How does this fit into that tradition?
>WAID: The trick is that Marvel has always been to a large extent the world around us. It has to be evocative of the world around us, the feelings people are feeling. At the same time, it’s a superhero comic, so you take real-world concerns and you put a Marvel face on it.
>BREVOORT: The one we always point to is the first Civil War, which was clearly very much about the world in the wake of 9/11 and the issues that were on the minds of people about security verses the need for personal privacy, and turned that into a superhero story that was all about the superheroes and their concerns, but told in such a way that you got the metaphor and the analogy. We try to do that in just about everything we do and get to the heart of stuff that our readers care about and are invested in.
>>84275585
>With such real-world political context to this book, and in the wake of the Captain America controversy, are you worried about any kind of internet backlash?
>BREVOORT: I don’t think we were braced for the size of the reaction to the Captain America thing. We knew there’d be a reaction, but we thought it would be a comic reader reaction. I think we underestimated how much that was gonna carry out to a wider audience, particularly to an audience that wasn’t reading the material but was familiar with Cap from the films. So it leapfrogged from “Captain America is a secret operative of Hydra” to “Captain America is a Nazi” to “Captain America is an anti-Semite.” I don’t think we anticipated the specific bounds of that trajectory. Sometimes that happens, you put the material out in the world and people respond to it, and maybe not the reaction you expected.
>WAID: The tightrope is always trying to say something while never making anyone in your audience feel excluded. That’s a harder tightrope than you think sometimes, especially as you come across elaborate socio-political-gender issues. You’re running a tightrope there. I would rather err on the side of “let’s tell a good story,” and as long as we are keeping the integrity of the character straight, as long as we are not doing anything that deliberately belittles anyone of genuine beliefs or genuine faiths and instead look at these problems with a clear eye, that’s all we can do.
>What’s the fun part about playing around with such new, young characters?
>>84275507
>Vision's daughter isn't scrap metal
Color me surprised.
>no new costumes
Bah.
Wait, aren't Iceman, Angel, Hercules, Black Widow, and Ghost Rider still alive? The only dead Champion from the original team is Darkstar.
>>84275507
I like the team but i'm not quite fond with the writer, artist, title, logo or anything else.
>VIVIAN SURVIVES
YESSSSSSWe might get Nova taking her to the prom after all!
>>84275507
>Ramos
>champions
>>84275605
>WAID: Younger characters are just much more emotional. When you’re a kid, regardless of the age you grew up, everything is high opera. With hormones raging, you have to fight external and internal battles that you’ve never had to deal with before. Unlike Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, who have seen it all and been through it all, everything heightens the drama. I couldn’t have a better partner in crime in this than Humberto Ramos, with whom I did Impulse. If you need evidence that Humberto knows a little something about teenage superheroes, you don’t have to look very far. The two of us have a pretty unique handle on what makes teenage superheroes work. Again, it’s high emotion. No one in a Humberto panel, even if they’re in the background, no one is just standing there not doing anything. Somebody’s got their mouth wide enough to eat a banana sideways, and somebody else looks like they’re gonna explode from rage, and that’s just the way Humberto draws people. It’s awesome.
Original Source: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/05/marvel-champions
>Sam×Viv was teased for long
>>84275507
>bringing back The Champions name after having lost the rights for decades
>Viv is SOMEHOW surviving Vision (thanks for the spoiler)
>dat team roster
Well shit, this actually seems pretty great. OH WAIT
>Ramos on art
FUCKING WHY. REEEEEEEEE!
>>84275507
Btw, Champions is name of some other Marvel team/comic, right?
>>84275507
The "C" logo is pretty sweet if they put it on a costume.
Wait a second, if a robot can inpregnate a female.
Can a male inpregnate a female robot ?
Also Tyke x Vivían team here
>>84275507
So basically this the Marvel's answer to DC's Teen Titans but with legacy heroes?
>>84275649
Yeah, I believe they were a rebranded West Coast Avengers but I could be remembering that wrong
>>84275569
>Cyclops shows up and goes, “Boy I love what you’re putting down, I’d like to be a part of it.”
>It’s kind of like Kid Hitler showing up at the door.
Last I checked the mutants weren't the ones doing the gassing.
I expected the new Wasp to join. Is she getting a solo? Because that wouldn't last more than 6 issues.
>>84275527
>Champions will channel more youthful activist energy than Marvel’s traditional superhero teams
>written by a middle-aged white man whose greatest work is literally "fuck what kids are into, classic superheroes will always be better" written 20 years ago.
Haha ok. I mean, this is basically the book that I WISH ANAD Avengers was so I'll probably be checking it out regardless. But man, I hope Waid sticks more to standard superheroing rather than "youth activism."
>>84275696
She's probably sticking with the Avengers
>>84275507
So what, did the trademark lapse on the Champions RPG or something? The last time Marvel tried to relaunch the Champions brand they ended up having to rename it The Order.
>>84275507
>Vision's psycho family is now part of the "cool" team-ups
This doesn't feel right
>>84275527
>It’s a strange time to be a young person
Oh god, is this going to be EAT IT, GRANDPA all over again?
>>84275569
>And man, I’m in that tiny sliver of people who think Scott Summers is the best X-Man there is. I’ve loved Scott Summers ever since I first started reading X-Men comics back in the mid-60s. So I campaigned quite heavily to get young Scott Summers on that team. My primary goal was for the doubters: By the end of issue 1, I can make you love Scott Summers.
GOD BLESS YOU WAID
>>84275507
Geez Kamala, who pissed in your cereal?
why doesn't ramos get a better colorist
>>84275710
See >>84275585
That other publisher is Heroic Publishing.
>>84275670
Wanda impregnated herself using magic
>>84275730
Marvel is committed to making sure they have the worst art for every book possible. Just look at New Avengers
>>84275727
>>84275754
i like sandoval, fuck you.
>Viv survives
Or maybe there's been a lack of communication between King and editors. I hope it's the latter.
>>84275569
>By the end of issue 1, I can make you love Scott Summers.
Well, good luck with that...
>>84275783In the latest issue of The Vision Vin's fucked.
>>84275783
>implying editors will give single fuck about King's story now that he's DC
>>84275507
I haven't followed Marvel in a few years
Why is Scott a child now?
>>84275808
time travel shenanigans, rightclops is dead.
>>84275795
In the beginning, Agatha narrates that Viv won't survive.
>Teen O5 aren't gone yet
>>84275693
>>84275649
The Champions were a team from the 70s that was basically "let's take a bunch of c-listers we're not doing anything with and through them together for no rhyme or reason." After the book got cancelled, another publisher picked up the trademark which meant that Marvel could no longer use the name Champions (the same situation as to why Marvel can use Captain Marvel but DC can't). Apparently they've come to an agreement to share the trademark or something.
>>84275507
Weird cover. They all look like they're levitating.
Or holograms. WHERE ARE THEIR SHADOWS
>>84275507
>Waid
Eh
>Ramos
Into the trash
I'd have loved ifSpencerHastings did this desu.
>>84275527
So they're probably quitting because Tony's gone and Carol's taking the Avengers name with Steve, yeah?I just want Rogue & Carol on the same team book.
>>84275754
But New Avengers has fantastic art.
>>84275507
Fuck off, this poster spoils the fuck out of Vision. Fuck you Marlel.
>>84275569
Based Waid!
Also I wanna see Tykeclops smashing some robo pussy, he's never tried robots before
>>84275821
Matt Fraction's summary of the Champions seems about right.
I think this is a good idea for a book though. The kids were by far the best part of ANAD Avengers and the adults were by far the worst part. Put Waid on the stuff he's good at.
What was wrong with young avengers? It has more selling power than Champions.
>>84275818
If people didn't buy it...
>>84275821
That's team with Hercules, Hulk and Angel, right? I dimly remember something about three of them in World War Hulk.
>>84275507
This kind of spoils Civil War II, doesn't it? We now know whoever wins basically does something to disenfranchise them with the younger generation, that or the kids realize both sides are fucking idiots and go "FUCK THIS NOISE"
>>84275783
Apparently the addition of Viv was Tom's idea
>>84275783
More like they won't give a shit about his story after issue 12 because he's leaving
>Mark Waid
>writing activist teenagers
>>84275860
It was:
>Hercules
>Iceman
>Black Widow
>Ghost Rider
>Angel
>>84275870
He caught the SJW bug, many writers at Marvel caught it.
Why is Marvel trying to push teen Cyclops?
>>84275616
>Wait, aren't Iceman, Angel, Hercules, Black Widow, and Ghost Rider still alive? The only dead Champion from the original team is Darkstar.
Pshh they are a bunch of old hacks. I MEAN look at them
> WHITE MALE FAGGOT
> WHITE MALE WEALTHY
> WHITE MALE PRIVILEGED RAPIST
> WHITE female CULTURAL APPROPRIATING MSMAN
> WHITE MALE RACIST/SEXIST/HOMOPHOBE/ISLAMIPHOPE (his stare burns your soul for your sins and doesn't take into account and weigh privilege si he's a PoS)
See the old group is filled with disgusting racsists. That is why we need this new cool activist team to show us the way to think so we can be cool progressives. Get with the time grandpa!
>>84275872Weird lineup.
>>84275507
Man I love Ramos's art. Its cool to see that he's working on a Teen Titansesque book.
>>84275870
You should be going
>Mark Waid
>writing
Hang up your pen already dude
Is it just me, or Waid hasn't written a great team book, except for FF? But FF are like a single entity anyway. His JLA was just okay and with ANAD avengers being mediocre, why did they let him continue with another team book?
>>84275881
He did it before with his LOSH threeboot run years ago
>>84275670
TYKE Vivian for OTP, tyke'll be like :
>Screw flesh I've got metal now
>>84275853
Because the point is them going "fuck the Avengers." Using an Avengers name would defeat the point.
Also the Young Avengers aren't really a catch-all team name for a young team of Avengers. The Young Avengers are a very specific team. If you're not at least 50% made-up of the original roster then you're not the Young Avengers. It'd be like calling these guys The Runaways or New Warriors. If you don't have any of the actual runaways or new warriors on the team, then you're not the runaways or new warriors.
>>84275507
Remove Miles and I would love the fuck out of this line up.
>>84275886
They want their readers to forget the truth
>>84275900
>I love Ramos's art
Oh good, wasting no time shitting all over the Visions.
>>84275910
Didn't they do a Runaways team during SW that had nothing in common with the original team
>>84275507
What? didn't marvel lost the copyright to Champions? Still, better champions than shitvengers
>>84275886
Waid wanted to write him, breevort put viví and chulk
>>84275901
Waid is at his worst writing teenagers or social justice stuff, though. His Archie and current Avengers stuff is the worst and we don't even bring up Strange Fruit anymore it's just too embarrassing for everyone.
>>84275930
Secret Wars was alt-universe weirdness where they could do whatever they want.
Also, it still had Molly (a Runaway) and Cloak & Dagger (Runaway supporting characters) in it so it was at least not completely different. Molly was the only 616 person on the team, too.
>>84275862
Tom Breevoot, not Tom King.
>>84275507
VIV LIVES
I
V
L
I
V
E
S
>>84275904
Because most of the popular writers are concentrating on their own stuff right now.
Waid is pals with Quesada and Brevoort and he's not particularly good at creator-owned comics so they can give him assignments and know he'll turn out something decent, if rarely (if it's a team book anyway) great.
>>84275552
Well, Avengers sell like shit, so it doesn't matter.
As a matter of fact, this not being avengers book makes me more interested in supporting it.
>>84275862
Wrong Tom, they meant Brevoort not King.
>>84275853
One, the copyright on Champions has apparently lapsed so of course Marvel was going to scoop it back up
Two, if the book fails, it'll be easier to cancel and pin the blame on the brand rather than the creative team or characters
>>84275870
>Tyke
>no ángel or ice-man
I dislike the O5 but come on, what a wasted opportunity
>>84275888
I’m surprised Viv makes it through Vision. I was so sure all of them were going to die except for Vision
ALL ABORD HYPE TRAIN
Beyond excited for this book
>>84275507
Intradesting.
A Mutant, a Hulk, an Inhuman, a Nova and an Android. All of them sort of junior versions in some fashion to a predecessor. All of them very volatile entities but working together.
Cho has the brains and the muscle, Scott could have the leadership, Nova and Viv the potent and multiple use powers sets and whatever Miles and Kamala bring that isn't dwarfed by the othersyes, yes, aside from sales and popularity. Close the reply box..
Color me interested.
>>84275886
Because whether they like it or not, X-men is still a valuable asset to Marvel. So they will take pieces and put them on teams while dissecting the franchise slowly. Same thing they did with F4. Johnny with the Inhumans, Ben with GotG and Reed and Sue and the FF off having multiverse adventures that are so unbelievably awesome, there's no comic series to portray it.
>>84275900
I like it too, and I think it would work better in a teen book (or someting with monsters) so I'm all for him in this.
>>84275569
This actually sounds pretty good. I'm looking forward to it.
>Kid Hitler
KEK
>>84275988
Oh, so it's comedy? Think I'll look to read it. Thanks senpai.
>>84276011
>Reed and Sue and the FF off having multiverse adventures that are so unbelievably awesome, there's no comic series to portray it.
I kinda thought that was gonna be a part of Ultimates to some extent, but clearly that's not the case.
>>84275921
welcome to corporate comics
>>84275967
>this not being avengers book makes me more interested in supporting it
Yeah, weirdly enough, I'm actually getting really hype for this while I couldn't give less of a fuck about ANAD Avengers.
>>84276009
Notice lack of Miles. Thank god
>>84276020
That's actually from Iceman's first mini-series.
>>84276009
>Android
She's a fucking SYNTHEZOID you biggoted cunt.
>>84275900
You like shit? Well Marvel is totally not going to disappoint you!
>>84276042
Movie rights. When you think about it, this was all Hickman's plan to send off the first family of Marvel before being dismantled and partially shelved. He probably knew exactly what Marvel wanted to do and came up with this event for it.
>>84275507
I can already tell from this first picture that Ramos's art is going to look like shit with that colorist. Besides that, this is basically the book I wanted since the ANADA team was announced. Now if they could just get Patriot to lead them we'd be allllll set.
>>84276088
In an interview, Hickman said Marvel wanted him to kill them off. He said that he refused and would quit right there if they made him do that.
So he proposed the "Reed becomes God and takes his family with him" alternative and they went for it.
So Cyclops is like Hitler now? has he been character assasinated?
>>84275507
So who's hooking up?
>>84275507
So Teen Titans?
Not bad looking, but ive been off marvel since secret wars, maybe I'll read this
>>84276124
Years of Marvel attempting to character assassinate him, but ironically, all they've done is make him seem like more and more of a hero.
>>84276124
He's been genocidal dictator since Utopia.
>>84276135Didn't have neon lights?
>>84275507
OK folks. Get your shipping in while you can!:
>KamalaxScott
>SamxViv
>ChoxMiles
H-here we go!
>>84276147
>literally has the power to go invisible
Obviously he doesn't need it and you need to go see an eye doctor.
>>84276115
>I can already tell from this first picture that Ramos's art is going to look like shit with that colorist.
Edgar Delgado works with Humberto Ramos for so long
Best girl!
BEST GIRL!
>>84276019
>Kid Hitler
We approve
>>84276158
>Kamala becomes team bicycle
>Viv stays pure
didnt Cyclops only go crazy because he got the Phoenix and he wasnt mean to be the host (it was Hope), and that was the fault of the Avengers?
>>84276206
Yes and yes.
>>84276206
When in doubt, always blame the avengers. The chances that you might be wrong is 0,00%
>>84276206
Don't put logic into this.
Cyclops is bad now because mutants are bad and Inhumans are good. Notice how I had to capitalize Inhumans. That's how great they are.
Do we have an official explanation about what the fuck Scott did after Secret Wars?
>THE BRATS ARE LEAVING THE AVENGERS, PRAISE THE LORD!!!
>>84276179
Agreed. Still, how the fuck does she survive The Vision? It's like the entire narrative has been a slow burn to the entire family's destruction.
>>84275816
So then Agatha's premonition is wrong, Viv and Victor both live
Tyke better be the one who gets to fuck Kamala
Also what the fuck is the point of All New Xmen now?
>hey guys let's have a book about the O5, but get rid of the only member of the O5 who has an interesting character. Also let's take the only other one who has had an interesting arc, becoming space Hitler, and just have her in a different book where she becomes Space Hitler.
It's like they don't understand that the only good parts of the O5 were Jean's decent into phoenix and Scott's decent into Magneto (even though Cyke was right). Like even from Giant Sized on Scott's arc is him losing his fucking mind and becoming a lot more jaded and edgy.
>>84276236
Perlmutter logic is the logic that he and his toadies are ruining everything in Marvel.
>>84276081
You some kind of coglover? It's a gearheaded, sexdoll, spunk receptacle.
A piece of plastic ass for the males on the team to relieve their stress on and the female to learn from example.
These windup toys want human rights? How about the right thank its rightful masters for not recycling it into something useful like a washing machine. Damn shame what the world's come to. Next thing you know people will be marrying these things.
>>84276249
How did Doc Samson got back to the life?
>>84276249
During the first issue, Vision will revive her with THE POWER OF SCIENCE or some crap. Sort of like how Toriyama killed Goku off and wanted to make the series about Gohan, but the editors said "no" and he had to bring Goku back.
I don't care about this book at all, but I'm delighted to see that Viv isn't gonna die in Vision.
I'm already shipping her with Sam. Sam needs a win, and robots are hot.
>>84276242
He attacked New Attilan or some shit. Don't think they've elaborated beyond that.
>>84276269
Soon young padawan, it'll be over soon. It's quite possible that Civil War is the end of inhumans, with shit like mosaic being a leftovers from the previous plan. Source: My father works for nintendo, I mean, marvel
>>84276242
Went to war with the inhumans. Caused a lot of mutant, inhuman, and human deaths in the crossfire. Most likely, the Inhumans just used their top tier PR to make him seem like the villain despite Scott being TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED.
Basically War of Kings II or XvI, but happened off-panel.
>>84275715
Viv is not evil, she is cute. She has done nothing wrong.
>Kid Hitler
>Ramos
Schwarbage
>>84275694
WEW
>>84276286
>gohan is still a pussy that is always sidelined
They know damn well that it was a mistake to ruin him and they keep doing so!
>>84276249
Might be a 'death' in the sense Viv cuts ties from her family after realizing her father is creepy as shit.
The logic goes as follows:
Hitler was white, Cyclops is white, therefore Cyclops is Hitler. Here, solved.
>>84276334
No they literally said that when she dies the last thing she thinks about is something her friend said before her mom murdered him
>>84275507
Hopefully given the creative team, roster and the fact that Marvel is clearly pushing it, this won't suffer the same fate that all "next generation of heroes" books suffer and get cancelled in a year (or at least, without a relaunch given how Marvel works now).
>>84276242
Nope, just that he went to war with the Inhumans and died.
The spoilers from months back that were mostly true said Scott faked his death and has been working underground in Uncanny X-Men, but that might as well be scrapped.
>>84276334
I'm thinking Miz Viz goes crazy (maybe the boy dies?) and Viv has to choose between her and Vision.
>>84276332
Toriyama isn't ruining him, Toei is. What's worse is that they completely and utterly destroyed Videl.
>>84276268
No idea why they lasted for more than an arc anyway. They shouldn't have come in the first place, and they definitely shouldn't have stayed as long as they have. If they wanted the O5 back, all they had to do was bring back Jean and finally solve that Schism bullshit. Instead, they took the easy way out.
I fucking hate Bendis.
>>84275690
You do realize the Teen Titans have had Legacy Heroes since the very begining, right?
>>84276242
>>84276262
Only for Breevoot.
>>84276382
Casuals only think of the cartoon line up when they think of the Teen Titans
>>84276127
Well, Kamala can't hook up with anyone because haram, so that leaves Viv. She'll probably hook up with either Sam, Kid Scott or Cho.
>>84275605
>BREVOORT: I don’t think we were braced for the size of the reaction to the Captain America thing. We knew there’d be a reaction, but we thought it would be a comic reader reaction. I think we underestimated how much that was gonna carry out to a wider audience, particularly to an audience that wasn’t reading the material but was familiar with Cap from the films. So it leapfrogged from “Captain America is a secret operative of Hydra” to “Captain America is a Nazi” to “Captain America is an anti-Semite.” I don’t think we anticipated the specific bounds of that trajectory.
That's right, your old rustle and run tricks aren't so safe anymore more, fuccboi. Sacrifice lambs in shark waters and get eaten.
>>84276009
>scott could have the leadership
yeah, cause that went so well the last time.
>commander Kamala or bust
what worries me most about the Cyclops character assasination is uf the mutants who are missing helped him and were character assasinated too, likw Emma, Rachel, or Quentin Quire.
Quentin could be a villain of this team.
Also, Havok may still be inverted, and be responsible for the bad thing Cyclops did.
>>84276179
Cyclops prepare your cyclops
>>84276268
They don't care about ANXM, if they did Dennis hopeless wouldn't be writing it
Also Tyke will fuck Vivi, screw the flesh >>84276320
>>84276346
Hitler did nothing wrong
>>84276382
Hopefully Champions treats legacy heroes better than the Teen Titans franchise does.
>>84276332
EP. 52 of dragon ball super is named "Gohan and Future Trunks"...maybe there is hope. (maybe even a fusion with Trunks.)
>>84275569
>Kid Hitler
Surely that comparison works much better with Evan, no?
Sam/Kamala lives!
>>84276382
sidekicks and legacy heroes are different but only a pedant would bitch
>>84276411
>rustle and run tricks
cliffhangers?
>>84276424
Well, he stepped on the grass in the park, so I don't know man
>>84275605
>So it leapfrogged from “Captain America is a secret operative of Hydra” to “Captain America is a Nazi” to “Captain America is an anti-Semite.”
That's not leapfrogging, that's a pretty clear path
HYDRA literally started as an offshoot of the Nazis. More extreme Nazis
>>84276315
>despite Scott being TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED.
No he wasn't. I can understand being butthurt about M-Pox but consider this
a) It was Black Bolt who detonated the Bomb. He's blaming an entire race for the actions of one guy, that's hypocritical.
b) Black Bolt isn't even ruler anymore
c) Black Bolt didn't even know the M-Pox would happen, it was an unfortunate side-effect, not an act of war
d) The Inhumans were actually helping mutants find a cure
Most importantly
e) What the fuck does attacking New Attilan even acomplish? NOTHING.
Guesses for the characters replacing them on main Avengers?
>>84276376
What is Toriyama even doing with super? It just seems like recycled garbage.But this new arc has me interested. I've always wanted an evil Goku since the Tree of Might.
>>84276455
Isn't that retconned into HYDRA being ancient conspiracy?
>now you remember the time Cypher fucked Danger
I bet my ass Tyke would list over Vivian robot ass, is a mutant tradition
>>84275569
fuck, i thought Kid Hitler was /co/ being /co/, goddammit Brevoort.
I have hope in based Waid. do we know anything about his X-Fandom?
>>84276442
Don't tease me, that was my ship
>>84276378
Alonso wanted it, Bendis called dibs.
With that being said, there are multiple ways the O5 situation can be fixed, with and or without sending them back, and result in interesting stories, expect Marvel to make shit up and call it a day.
why are they calling him kid hitler anyway? like Scott un-genocided people ffs
stop fucking telling us and show us what scott did goddammit.
>>84276424
>Hitler did nothing wrong
If that were true he wouldn't have lost the war, you stupid memeposter.
>>84276465
a) Black Cuck should die
b) Black Cuck should die
c) Black Cuck should die
d) Black Cuck and Inhumans should die
e) Black Cuck and Inhumans should die
accept no imitacciones!
>>84276419
>Kommander Kamala Khan
this meams no more Ramos in Extraordinaty X-Men, hopefully no more Lemire too.
>>84275507
>Mark Waid writing a whole team of millennial heroes
This'll all end in cringe, I just know it...
>>84276455
Untrue as fuck, HYDRA started out as a criminal organization ala SPECTRE, hence the logo that has nothing to do with a hydra. The Nazi thing was a retcon. Read a comic some day.
>>84276445
When will Evan become officially Deadpool's sidekick and date Ellie?
>>84276455
Learn your history.
Hydra existed for Millenia before the Nazis. During WWII it mostly operated in the East, but Baron Strucker abandoned the Nazis and its racist ideology (a trip in Doctor Doom's time machine showed him the Reich was doomed) to reform Hydra in the West, far more powerful than ever.
They aren't more extreme nazis, they're fascists who don't care about racial purity, only about ruling the world. They have people of all races.
>>84276487
meanwhile, unpeople who literally gas the other race out of existnece is okay
>>84276530
Again, you're blaming an entire people for the actions of one asshole. That's like saying all mutants suck because Apocalypse.
>>84276487
how does one
UN genocide
>>84276487
It's all a metaphor for Scott keeping mutants relevant when Marvel wants the INHUMANS to be relevant. If you were Marvel, you'd be pissed that some freak was stealing thunder from what you're trying to make into a cash cow.
Holy fucking shit, thanks for the Vision spoiler, Marvel!
Also, fuck this, they'll ruin Viv anyway.
Can viv and sam get together and be happy and not suffer anymore
>>84276551
Use the Ultimate Unnullifer.
>>84276551
bringing back mutants after AvX
i guess un-decimate is the correct term
>>84276549
I don't care. Inhumans must cease to exist.
>>84276564
>>84276579
Look on the bright side, at least it isn't Bendis.
>>84276465
Black Bolt was the Monarch of Attilan. If Obama were to nuke Canada tomorrow, the Canadian's would be rightfully pissed at Americans even after the next President was elected and took office.
It is a genocidal roving gas chamber, it is a bioweapon that is affecting Inhumans and mutants around the world. None of the nuhumans asked for these powers. None of the mutants are asking to die or be sterilized. Chemical warfare is an act of war, intentional or not.
And Black Bolt isn't facing any charges, he isn't being put under arrest or put on trial for crimes against humanity. The Inhumans are using their influence to protect him.
Inhumans are refusing the burn the terrigen clouds out of the atmosphere because they worship the mists. Getting rid of the clouds would at least decrease the severity of the situation and puts uninfected mutants out of danger, allowing them to move back from Hell
>>84276509
Cyclops shall lead, to prove his expertise as an X man
>>84276491
Cuck
>>84276473
Most old school writers love the X men but are sad for what marvel and Fox are doing
>>84276319
Not arguing that, just saying i can't see those characters fitting other kind of stories. I'm sure they'll mention Viv and her family's problems etc., but shit will inevitably be toned/dumbed down for the sake of making it fit a more "friendly" atmosphere and story
Think of how Morbius the vampire in the cartoon became Morbius the plasma-sucking hand... actually that's probably a bad example since arguably the core character was still the same enough, but i hope you get my point
But i this is comics i guess, no point bitching
>>84275507
So I guess All-New Wasp will be the only teen left in the ANAD Avengers. I guess we'll get their new roster tomorrow.
>>84276455
>HYDRA literally started as an offshoot of the Nazis
No they didn't, moviefag. They started as a SPECTRE rip-off and was playing off of the communist threat at the time, not naziism. When Marvel wanted to have Nazis as villains, they just had Red Skull show up leading some nazis. HYDRA, although one of its heads being a former/renounced Nazi, was never a nazi organization. The only reason this misconception has become a thing in recent years is because of people who only watch the movies having seen the Cap movie where HYDRA were super-nazis.
But even then, both MCU HYDRA and comics HYDRA existed for over a thousand years before nazi-ism existed. In the comics as an Eastern-based version of The Shield, and in the MCU, as an ancient inhuman death cult.
>>84276598
But he didnt do that. That was hope and wanda. Scott wasted his time mind raping clint and throwing the avengerd into a hell
>>84275870
>Mark Waid
>writing teenagers
ftfy
>>84276602
Add it to the fact, that inhumans don't want to remove the mists, because they are sacred
>>84276607
>Cuck
Wow, great non-counterargument, sure showed me!
>>84276549
Then arrest Black Bolt and force him to face punishment for commiting genocide and blowing up planets
The Inhumans don't want their former king to be held accountable because that would make them seem weak.
>>84275776
What a bitch.
>>84276602
>>84276645
>Inhumans are refusing the burn the terrigen clouds out of the atmosphere because they worship the mists. Getting rid of the clouds would at least decrease the severity of the situation and puts uninfected mutants out of danger, allowing them to move back from Hell
For fuck's sake.
I hate that Bunn utterly mangled that plot point in Uncanny Avengers. In all other books, the Inhumans want to get rid of the Mists in the atmosphere, but CAN'T. The editors done fucked up there.
But because one book said something different that happened to make the Inhumans look bad, all the X-Fans latched onto it while ignoring what actually happens in the Inhuman books.
>>84276626
>But even then, both MCU HYDRA and comics HYDRA existed for over a thousand years before nazi-ism existed. In the comics as an Eastern-based version of The Shield
Hickman retcons don't count
>there are people IN THIS VERY BOARD defeding the shithumans RIGHT NOW
Holy shit.
>>84276655
>>84276602
Then why did Cyclops attack New Attilan?
Why didn't he attack the Quiet Room? Where Black Bolt actually lives ever since he was kicked out?
>>84276602
>The Inhumans are using their influence to protect him.
But that isn't happening at all
>Inhumans are refusing the burn the terrigen clouds out of the atmosphere because they worship the mists
It is literally the exact opposite in their book. Marvel editors should probably try doing their jobs to keep things consistent.
>>84276668
Do you know how marvel could have handled it?
By Inhumans removing the mists, and having the X-Men / Inhumans co-operate in search for another source of the mists. That would make inhumans much more sympathetic, not to mention, heroic. But marvel sucks at heroism, they excel in making their characters complete selfish assholes with child mentality.
>>84276673
It predates Hickman by decades
>>84276551
>SW: No More Mutants
>SW: Oh wait, I can actually fix this
>Cyke: I forbid you from doing that during this event because we can turn it into another event
>P.E.N.I.S.: The writers forgot to show that we can't make more mutants for some reason
>SW and Hope: No More Phoenix
>They kill the Phoenix and use it's corpse to turn normal people into mutants
>Phoenix comes back because it's a fucking phoenix
And that's how the mutant race was reborn without repowering any former mutants.
>>84276673
If you say so...
>>84276673
HYDRA was always an ancient eastern organization that Strucker brought to the west after getting disenfranchised with nazi-ism. The only retcon Hickman did was the whole shield/spear thing in order to make shield an ancient western organization as well.
But either way, HYDRA predating and originating in the east before Strucker co-opted it has been canon for decades.
>>84276676
They are not people. They are inpeople shills
>>84276691
>It is literally the exact opposite in their book.
It is not. Medusa was literally asked in helping removing the mists, and she was like, "nope, it's sacred for us", and then she was like, "but of course, we will do anything to help you",
"except removing the mists"
>>84276668
The Inhumans are in a severe Terrigen shortage, Attilan doesn't have any left.
The only way future Inhumans will be able to go through their sacred ritual of Terrigenesis will be to use the Terrigen cloud.
That seems like motive not to destroy the cloud. They want to figure out how to preserve the Terrigen for future generations. It's like how when there's an Oil spill the clean up takes forever because the oil companies want to save the oil and not lose money.
>>84276727
>It is not. Medusa was literally asked in helping removing the mists, and she was like, "nope, it's sacred for us", and then she was like, "but of course, we will do anything to help you",
That was in Uncanny Avengers only, nice try.
Post proof from an actual Inhuman book if you have any.
>>84276691
Show me where the Inhumans are saying that they want to destroy the Terrigen Cloud in their books
>>84276268
This, I bet Hopeless is as he keeps losing his o5
>>84276732
Karnak never went through mists, and look at him, he is full-fledged inhuman. Not to mention that you have to go through mists, when you are of age. The main plot of all-new hawkeye was that some poor kids got gassed and became a deformed shits. Try harder, you apologetic scumbag.
>>84276727
>Medusa was literally asked in helping removing the mists, and she was like, "nope, it's sacred for us", and then she was like, "but of course, we will do anything to help you"
Again, not in their book. In Uncanny Avengers. Hence that anon saying that the problem was with editors not doing their job.
The Inhumans are pissed about the mists because it circumvents the sacred process of terrigenesis. Random terrigenesis is the LAST thing the inhumans want. They're just kinda screwed in that Black bolt used all the terrigen they had left in the bomb, so until they find more, the cloud is their only option.
But if anything, it's not sacred, it's sacrilege. A necessary evil until they can get some new terrigen crystals.
>>84276745
Lol, are you implying it's not canon?
>>84276751
Not like he's using Cyclops, he wanted to write Jeen tough
>>84276680
Who even knows if it was Attilan he attacked? They literally won't show or tell us what Cyclops actually did.
All we know is that he attacked Inhumans. It could have been Attilan, it could have been the Quiet Room, it could have been some random nobodies getting out of their cocoons for the first time
>>84276676
>there are people IN THIS VERY BOARD still sucking the cock of a dead franchise like X-Men RIGHT NOW
I mean, Inhumans are shit but that doesn't take away that X-Men is just as big of a turd of a franchise.
So either Viv gets rebuilt and reactivated, or this whole series will take place before Vision concludes. Actually now that I think about it, we only know she'll die because of Agatha's vision, which the Avengers know about now, so maybe her death will be prevented?
I thought people were just pulling shit out of their ass when they said Tyke would join this team, though.
>>84276764
So it's fine to let mutants die because it's sacred?
Inhumans are the fucking ISIS of the marvel universe
>>84275507
>>84275550
>having a freakin hulk on the team
Why? What's the point when you already have a younger version of Vision there? Do they want the fights to be boring? Was Laura not available to be the explosive character?
>>84276764
Since you read their books, what is their stance towards the mists then?
>>84275694
HOAH SHIT. SICK INHUMAN BURN, SON
>>84276777
People wanted Tyke to become a Trans girl
>>84276732
>That seems like motive not to destroy the cloud. They want to figure out how to preserve the Terrigen for future generations
The X-Men have a lot of powerful TK users, why don't they just bubble the mists and put it in containers? They don't even have to bubble it all at once, just take out sections of it. It just really seems like an easy problem to fix but they're not using any of the many solutions because they don't want to solve it.
>>84276775
Inhumans are the flu. A temporary annoyance that'll pass in time, but sucks for its duration.
The X-men are cancer. A malignant growth that has grown out of control, destroying and corrupting everything in its wake and is nearly impossible to get rid of without poisoning yourself or potentially dieing in the process.
>>84275507
>>84275550
>You’ll know we’ve failed if by issue 5 the Masters of Evil show up and there’s a fight with the Absorbing Man
So what villains are they going to fight?
With a Hulk, Viv, Nova and Venom Blast-Man on the team, they're pretty powerful.
>>84276775
If you remove X-Men, you are left with Peter Parker, Iron Fister, Luke "We wuz kings" Cage, Frank, and Avengers and some *giggle* books like SG and Hellcat. Which is all pure garbage.
>>84276808
One guy wants Teen-Scott to be a trans girl, just because he stopped using a trip doesn't mean it's a new guy.
>>84276797
Well it's Chulk so he's also a genius even while Hulked out.
And Viv at least has the density shifting powers
>>84276810
In fact, in Civil War II: X-Men, we see Storm use her powers to redirect the Cloud. Why the fuck doesn't she do that all the time?
Just let kid arachnid fight everyone.
>>84276244
Yeah, Sam, Whor and Tony were really dragging the kids down from their full potential
>>84276810
Storm is kissing Inhuman feet, she's a sellout and a traitor because she could've solved the mists issues long time ago.
So now Magneto is gonna make Attilan burn
>>84275552
>So basically Marvel Teen Titans
Probably since it has members of the X-Men and the New Warriors in it.
>>84276821
I hope that marvel comics will die. Someday, or cease to exist.
>>84276810
The X-men have Storm who is completely capable of moving the mists with wind and air currents.
>>84276823
Yes, just like the original Champions.
4 strong guys and two practically useless ones.
>>84276797
Not every fight is a punchfest, outside maybe Viv no one on that team has proper defenses against psionics and magic. Cho is also still the biggest cooperative kid genius there is, his Hulk side is a buff to that not the one component.
>>84276732
So what you're saying is, Inhumans are evil like the oil companies. People in the Gulf of Mexico suffer because of their mistakes like how Mutants suffer because of the damn Inhumans.
Fuck the Inhumans
>>84276850
She doesn't want to offend the inhumans. You know, after what Cyclops did......................................................
>>84276823
Young Masters, maybe? I hope this book won't be "topical".
>>84276823
>So what villains are they going to fight?
/pol/, random social injustice (ie. lack of coffee machine in offices), and youtube commenters
you know, first world problems
>>84275569
I don't like them tossing around "activists" so much. I keep thinking of failed activism efforts, shit like Occupy and Kony, and I can't help but picture this book being a superteam monitoring Twitter for the latest thing to be upset about.
>>84275715
>Remembers Threeboot Legion.
Well at least we'll get a lot of jokes out of this.
>>84275907
>Tyke/Viv
>Not Nova/Viv taking full abuse of blackmail knowledge.
>>84276870
>Hercules - Chulk
>Black Widow - Miles
>Iceman - Tyke
>Angel - Kamala
>Ghost Rider - Viv
>Darkstar - Nova
I'd probably read this if it wasn't by modern Waid. Probably won't be bad but also won't be interesting.
>Viv survives
neat.jpg
>>84276823
>>84276887
from waid's talk i would think original villains.
also it's gonna be topical, deal or don't read
>>84276799
I just said what their stance is? They hate the cloud because it circumvents the holy process of terrigenesis, is a horribly dangerous and unsafe compared to traditional terrigenesis, and is an ongoing PR nightmare.
It's the opposite of sacred. It's sacrilege.
Unfortunately, until they get more terrigen crystals, the cloud is the only option. It's still sacrilegious and horribly dangerous though (since there's a lower chance of survival).
>>84276732
Except for the part where the Inhumans don't want to use the cloud and think it is disgusting
try again anon
>>84275910
They technicly do have a new warrior on the team so he probably could use the name.
>>84276863
That's stupid, as comic fans, we'd rather have all the companies do well so that they continue to compete, which in turn should cause them to make better content.
DC Rebirth, Marvel Now and so on are basically outcomes of them competing.
We save through this because of deals or even cheaper comics.
>>84275507
At this point, the O5 X-Men have been in the present for a year in-universe, right?
At this point, we just have to accept that they're either here to stay, will die at some point, or will somehow merge with their present-day counterparts. They're divergences now, too much has changed for them to ever just go back to the past. If they die nothing will change.
>>84276927
In other words, they are lying hypocrites.
>>84276930
They have:
>New Warrior
>X-man
>Avenger
>Defender
Except, y'know, legacy'd up. Champions is still probably the best name considering how weirdly mashed up it is.
