Rewatching BTAS and this episode really impressed me.
Why aren't modern superhero shows like this? My nephew likes to watch whatever the new Spiderman cartoon is and its just non stop quips and beating up bad guys, they'd never do anything serious like this. I know Spiderman has never really been known for getting "deep" but still.
Why do modern shows treat kids like they must be idiots?
Also BTAS thread, what are your favorite episodes? I really liked the 2 face arc, this, and heart of ice so far.
>>84255285
Bump
>>84255285
I've been re-watching the show too. It's a shame nothing is this stylized and thought-out. It's like no one wants anything actually deep.
It's honestly quite disheartening too.
>>84255285
I like P.O.V , Almost got him, and The one where everyone thought that guy (Sid the squid killed batman.
>>84256059
Yea P.O.V. was good
>>84256035
It really is. Kids today will never know good cartoons like this.
I really loved the Grey Ghost episode.
>>84255285
>Spiderman has never really been known for getting "deep"
Fuck you.
>>84255285
That was a damn good episode.
>>84255285
Fires of Olympus, Day of the Samurai, and the Demon's Quest are my favorite.
Is Ra's ever going to be relevant again?
>>84255285
for some odd reason, people seem to dislike this episode (if I'm not mistaken)
I thought it was a thrilling and entertaining episode, even if people think that it's not at it's best. An execution that not many shows can deliver today, even as a mediocre two-parter. The music score in those eps was one of the best, I must say.
Heck, I'm not even pissed of at the episode "I've Got Batman In My Basement", because I didn't take it so seriously and had fun.
The only one that I wasn't impressed with ""The Underdwellers". It just didn't work for me.
More favorite eps:
"P.O.V."
"Two-Face"
"It's Never Too Late"
"Heart of Ice"
"Beware the Gray Ghost"
"Joker's Favor"
"Mad as a Hatter"
"Almost Got 'Im"
"The Man Who Killed Batman"
"Trial"
"Baby-Doll"
Check out "A Bullet for Bullock," they talk about crack houses in that one.
>>84255285
I like BTAS, but it shouldn't be treated like the standard for action cartoons because it ws something unique, almost impossible to replicate. It had a lot of work and talent behind it and was so good to justify a whole universe with multiple series.
Anyway, my favorites usually are the Joker and Two-Face episodes, but the absolute best one for me is "Almost Got'im"
>>84256283
Just watched these 2, they weren't bad but not my favorite.
I remember watching one as a kid where Scarecrow makes it so no one feels fear anymore, was that BTAS or one of the later versions? I know they had a Batman and Robin series as well and another one but it was still the same people doing them.
>>84256399
>it shouldn't be the standard cause it was too good
So people shouldn't be expected to put in this kind of effort now?
>>84255285
next to adam west batman, this btas is my definitive version of the caped crusader.
think i laughed the hardest is when the joker is up against the wall being threatened by that guy with a bomb and joker is like, 'come on you have a busy day, all that running around with BATMAN!!!'
If you listen to Paul Dini and Mark Hamill on Fatman on Batman, it's clear they really did love being involved with BTAS.
"This cartoon isn't being made for people of my age" isn't the same as "UGH THEY TREAT KIDS LIKE IDIOTS". Get the fuck out with that entitled insipid shit, specially the delusion that makes you think all kids favor serious plotlines over humor and light-hearted fun. If they did Young Justice wouldn't have flopped.
>>84256533
I think that's "Joker's Favor" that's a damn good episode.
>>84256566
But where are the cartoons like this? That's the point anon "light hearted fun" is all they make anymore
>>84256575
This guy is correct. That's my absolute favorite episode. I love stories about average citizens dealing with the kind of shit that goes on in these universes.
>>84256566
They kind of do treat kids like idiots, though.
Nothing wrong with light-hearted fun, but that's ALL they're feeding them, and it's not even very good. Kids deserve better.
And that's not why YJ got cancelled.
>>84256618
Commercial product follow trends. If they're not making shows like BTAS it's because they seem to not be very profitable right now, for VARIOUS reasons that extend way and above beyond simplistic reactionary accusations like "they don wanna put the effort i 'spose".
This is the eintertainment business, none of us are entitled to the existence of stuff we like, it is to us to simply hope one day it swings in our favor again, but it's just small-minded to go "kids these days ugh" when most nerds, regardless of what they like, are some dumb motherfuckers anyway.
>>84256575
It's been awhile but if I remember correctly, the random slub who the Joker terrorizes throughout the episode really nails the dynamic between Bat-man and Joker.
>This is how it ends, Joker. No big schemes. No grand fight to the finish with the Dark Knight. Tomorrow all the papers will say is it the great Joker who was found blown to bits in an alley alongside a miserable little nobody?" Kinda funny. Ironic really. See, I can destroy a man's dreams too and that's really the only dream you've got? Isn't it?
>>84256675
I'm not going "kids these days ugh" I'm going "producers these days ugh" but alright fair enough.
I know they have to make money anon I just wish they didn't wanna make money exclusively off of low effort shit.
>>84256649
You don't get to decide what is better, and much more importantly you would be mad to assume this is all kids experience. My little cousin is reading Sherlock Holmes along with watching cartoons along with studying hours and hours above what I had to study back in my day. There is a WORLD beyond cartoons.
In fact, that would be an interesting study wouldn't it? Kids study more so media is being made breezier and faster. There's something to be linked there if one would be inclined to investigate.
And yes it IS why YJ got cancelled, Greg Weisman himself said they didn't have enough kids watching, so no one was buying the toys, so there was no financial reason to keep going, regardless of the comforting indignation people want to fabricate out of "grr they didnt want girls watching it!", an explanation that doesn't even make fucking sense since no company would go "too much money we didn't expect! Abort!"
>>84256509
I didn't say that. What I meant was that the DCAU is a masterpiece and masterpieces shouldn't used as a standard.
Animators should still aim to make a good product, with good artstyle and good story, but these days we don't see often
>>84256756
The job of an entertainer is to entertain the best
they can, a masterpiece is the most perfect entertainment.
So should everyone not strive to entertain as
well as is possible?
The highest heights of human achievement
should always be what people are held to as a
standard otherwise you get our shitty modern
culture.
>>84256675
Kids eat up whatever shit you put in front of
them, when you put stupid shit they become
stupid shits, when you put good shit they have
a chance to become good.
>>84256872
Then what's your excuse for becoming a mongoloid?
Cultural backbone comes from places beyond cartoons. Pity the hollow skulls that do nothing but watch cartoons.
>>84256729
>Kids study more
>my cousin is intelligent and studies so all kids study now
>>84256675
its more like "executives these days, ugh"
>>84256095
When I was a kid, I didn't even realize that Simon Trent was Adam West. I barely even recognized that the Gray Ghost was the Shadow (I kinda, sorta got the connection from the Alec Baldwin movie).
I'm glad that the media of my youth was sufficiently nuanced and multilayered that I can appreciate it more, now, in adulthood.
>>84257193
Watching the episode now. Really good. I never noticed he was Adam West as a kid either it's awesome.
>>84257238
I especially like how integral the Gray Ghost is to B:TAS mythology.
>>84257193
>>84257238
>>84257408
It was such a clever episode and casting.
I loved how the villain was literally a crazed fanboy. I believe Bruce Timm voiced him.
>>84255285
Which episode was this again? I've seen them all but it's been several years.
>>84257819
It's never too late
My all-time favorite BTAS episode is Perchance to Dream. It's just wonderful. I found out later that it's Kevin Conroy's favorite episode too.
My only problem with it is that it's hard to recommend to people because it's essential they watch another episode first but by telling them which episode it gives away the surprise villain.
>>84256849
I think what that anon meant was we shouldn't hold it against people for failing to reach that height, not that they shouldn't try. they absolutely should try. But we can't expect realistically for everything to be that good.
>>84255285
I love this episode. I miss when Batman could be nice to people and believe in them.
>I don't believe you'd give up on anyone, Father.
>>Why do modern shows treat kids like they must be idiots?
Because the writers became idiots
>>84257881
Troy Baker also has said this is his favourite too.
>>84255285
This episode is the most underrated episode of the series. No one ever brings it up. Good thread OP
>>84257960
>Because the writers became idiots
>implying most of them weren't always idiots
>>84257881
What episode was that?
>>84257408
I wish cartoons still had this sort of continuity.
>>84256729
>And yes it IS why YJ got cancelled, Greg Weisman himself said they didn't have enough kids watching, so no one was buying the toys
Only half-right. The ratings were fine and even increased. The premiere alone had the highest ratings of 2010. The lack of toys was what directly killed the show.
>>84257881
>My only problem with it is that it's hard to recommend to people because it's essential they watch another episode first but by telling them which episode it gives away the surprise villain.
Is it though? You could watch it before Mad as Hatter, with MaH right after as a sort 'origin episode'
>>84255285
The fight between Batman and Ra's al Ghul in Demon's Quest was pretty memorable to me. I also liked Harlequinade. But the one episode that really sticks out in my mind is Over the Edge even if the ending was inevitable for an ongoing kid's series. I remember seeing it on TV one afternoon and wondering "holy shit is this really happening?"
>>84257941
Don't forget the episode where Batman actually tries to help save The Ventriloquist. He helps him stand-up to "Scarface" and even helps him rehabilitate and get a job afterwards.
>>84256683
One of the really interesting things about the DCAU is that it wasn't afraid to have The Joker fail. Sometimes he'd escape from Arkham, and go back in without killing anyone. Most comic book writers for the past 30 years seem to think it's poor taste to not have him murder at least a handful of people in each appearance.
>>84258813
I love the episode where Riddler traps Batman and Robin in his maze. Really fun episode.
>>84258813
Also in The Batman and Brave and the Bold, to the point of driving him to tears in both times.
I r
Young Justice was the closest thing we had to getting that magic back, and in a cruel twist of fight Teen Titans Go is the only thing left.
It's really disheartening.
>>84258889
The Joker was a ruthless murder in his first appearance which is literally Batman #1, Eddy...
Why can't live action Batman ever capture the feel of this show?
They're always either too dark or too bland. BTAS gets it just right.
Its never too late should be required viewing for anyone attempting a new Batman show/movie imo. If we could get live action stuff with feels like this it'd be awesome.
>>84255285
What's this episode called?
>>84260475
Its Never Too Late
>>84260503
whats never too late? I want to know the episode name
>>84255285
My favorite's got to be I Am The Night.
>>84257050
I know it goes against your jaded and cynical world view, but kids these days are reading and studying MORE than they were even a decade ago.
>>84260514
>its never too late to shitpost
>>84260485
Thanks, missed that post.
>>84260446
The sympathetic portral of many of the villains also made Batman's no kill rule actually make sense
>>84260446
Just because it's your favorite Batman doesn't mean it's the best Batman. Dark Batman is perfectly fine too.
>>84261528
BTAS is dark though, its just not CRAWLING IN MY SKINNNNNNN tier
>>84261885
This. Compare BTAS to STAS and they are, unironically, like night and day.
>>84258051
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchance_to_Dream_(Batman:_The_Animated_Series)
Although Heart of Ice is my favorite, I'll never forget His Silicon Soul.
This is a personal favorite of mine.
STAS.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1qp3rk_the-late-mr-kent-superman-s2-e35_shortfilms
>>84255285
>I know Spiderman has never really been known for getting "deep" but still.
Go read Kravens Last Hunt or something.
>>84255285
>Why aren't modern superhero shows like this?
because it's boring, dude
the only reason it seems so deep and meaningful is because there's no OTHER kind of show that would touch it. but that doesn't make it an appropriate area for superhero stories. it's boring. superhero stories are about violence and combat. as a kid this kinda thing bored me and my sister to tears. NOW i can appreciate it for the depth it has, but.. i don't want it in my batman. i want it in my nearly-everything-else
>>84256283
Baby-Doll was criminally underrated.Did Batman book her or did he let her go?
>>84256675
>none of us are entitled to the existence of stuff we like
everyone else seems to be
>>84256729
nobody was buying the toys because they were shit.. this is the problem. nobody is putting the blame on toy companies.
>>84256721
but this dumb modern way ISNT making money
Am I the only one that preferred Beyond to BTAS?
>>84257911
Pretty much this. Besides, it's not like other cartoons cant get here. Just look at spectacular spiderman and the batman. They're not idiotic shows. And not all shows are idiotic. You gotta search for the good shit my guy.
>>84256566
YJ got cancelled because it was shit.
>>84255285
Because Americans don't like anything other than dumb fart comedies these days.
>>84255285
This was a quasi-retelling of Angels With Dirty Faces.
>Cape and Cowl Conspiracy
>Now, what will you do with the cape and cowl?
>I'm going to wear it!
Best twist ever.
>>84266861
>I don't want it in my batman
Get out
>>84264075
>It's not possible. How did he survive that car bomb? How?
>...
>He's Superman!!CLICK
Amazing episode with an amazing ending.
>>84256534
Listening to them now. Dini cries over the Heart of Ice script, dude is so into his work it's great.
>>84267389
What kind of prison uses a gas chamber
>>84259345
>Forgetting that this is a reference to 60's Bats
>>84268528
Plenty. Five states allow death penalty by gas, Eight allow death by electrocution. Three allow death by firing squad. Two allow death by hanging.
All are available as alternatives to lethal injection if the inmate a) has the option and b) chooses the alternative.
>>84268528
I would imagine it's much easier to show Superman saving someone from a gas chamber than a lethal execution or the electric chair.
>>84256566
>Young Justice
flopped because it was a shitty, terribly written dreck that literally went out of it's way to annoy viewers
>>84260561
> but kids these days are reading and studying MORE than they were even a decade ago.
yeah cos the cartoons are poop
>>84269306
Yeah, this. Every time someone mourns Young Justice I wonder if we watched the same cartoon. That or I just watched the wrong episodes.
I think a big part of why BTAS got to flourish where it did was because of the time it was released. Noir went through a huge revival in the 90s there was a big neo-noir boom that got everyone's appetites prepared for more classical crime storytelling. Then you had TV taking its first big steps into more serialised, mature storytelling.
We're never going to get something like BTAS again because crime fiction has fundamentally changed. A lot of the romanticised nostalgia has been stripped out just by practical reality. It's less noir and more stuff like Breaking Bad and Sicario, even the mainstream entertainment knows that you can't really sell the "sexy" aspects of organised crime like you used to.
Feat of Clay, preferably part 2 of course.
In fact me buying Detective Comics post-Rebirth is solely due to Clayface being in there, simply because of that episode and the score that goes with it.
watched pretty much every episode mentioned here, not bad. Favorite so far was Joker's Favor
>>84257193
>>84257238
>>84257782
I'd feel angry about all the other shows that copied the idea, but that it gives West almost regular work and exposer after being fucked over makes it alright.
Justice League, Superman, Batman, these series were so mature and fantastic.
Rewatching them. Shame they were never all made fully available on DVD in my country but they are on Prime.
>>84255285
I know it's mainly known for poking fun at silver age comics, but Brave and the Bold had a few serious business episodes.
The Christmas episode with Red Tornado probably has the saddest version of Bruce's parents' deaths ever, even if it doesn't quite line up with the show's own canon.
>that season one episode of Ultimate Spider-Man where Nightmare tries to torment Peter with the ghost of his Uncle Ben
>Tfw it backfires because Peter knows that Ben would be proud of him and we get a touching moment where they reunite
OP confirmed faggot
>>84256899
>I'm concerned about how shitty this form of media has gotten, so that must mean I don't care about any other form of media!
Christ alive, listen to the shit drivel you're spewing. The decline in literacy in American adults bothers me too, as does the fact that YA literature has an increasingly massive secondary market amongst grown ass adults.
But this is /co/, not fucking /lit/, so I talk about the one that's relevant to the fucking board, you goddamn crap-eater. I know that's a hard fucking concept to understand, but maybe you should put a little effort into it.
>>84255285
Thanks for reminding me that Ultimate Spider-Man exists, and is this generation's quintessential Spider-Man cartoon that kids will remember and be nostalgic over instead of Spectacular. (Which as we all know was killed off before it's time because of studio politics.)
>>84257881
I remembered this episode from when I was a kid. But for some reason I was thinking that it was Scarecrow. So when I watched it a few months back and Hatter showed up, it surprised the hell out of me.
>>84256399
>Almost Got 'Im
>Killer Croc tells his story
>"And then....I hit him with a rock!"
>The other villains pause, then continue their conversation
>"...it was a big rock...."
My personal favorite was "His Silicon Soul". As a kid I fucking loved robots and watching Batman fight Robo-Batman was tailor made for me.
But it wasn't just that, there was real struggle with identity and impassioned moments from Robo-Bats that really got me. He wasn't just Terminator in a bat suit, he was unique, and I always hoped they would do something with him again, but they never did. I mean, imagine if sometime in Batman Beyond a rogue A.I. took control of him, and suddenly terry is up against an image of his mentor in his prime? Wouldn't that have been rad?
This was also the episode that introduced to me Batman's no-kill policy and given what I knew of the character it suddenly made a lot of sense. It was the first time my young mind really made a connection like that so this ep will always be memorable for that alone.
I am the Night.
The depiction of Batman's weariness, and questioning if he's actually doing any good at all, was heartbreaking.
>>84273265
Spectacular also did this, but with the symbiote in place of Nightmare.
>>84266876
She came back later, and was managing a crappy motel in the beginning of the episode. It seems like she got some help and was put on the right track, but she fell off and teamed up with Croc.
>>84255285
Modern shows think they are tackling controversial issues with just adressing stuff like LGBTerraformer, bullying or feminism. That's cool but fuck they are missing a lot.
>>84258563
Batgirl falling off a skyscraper and smashing into the roof of Gordon's car within the opening 3 minutes...
That is most certainly not what you expect to see when you grab your cereal and sit down to Saturday morning cartoons.
You niggas should listen to batman the animated podcast. The host is a huge dink, but he's a good interviewer and he gets basically the entire cast and all the creative minus Bruce Timm on his show. Kevin Altieri, Alan Burnett, the Dini, Andrea Romano, etc. It's really fucking good if you love the show.
>>84275371
It still didn't really hit me until you see the funeral procession later. Gordon carrying his daughter's casket really cemented that she was dead for me. Up to that point I really couldn't believe that a cartoon had actually killed a character. Even though it was all a dream, that was still intense as fuck.
>>84274590
> two instances from two different shows of Spider-Man being deep
Christ OP
>>84256683
Nothing pisses off the Joker quite like that.
>>84257881
I remember feeling betrayed by that episode, they state that it's impossible to read anything inside a dream, but that's not true.
>>84275480
I just listened to the first 3 episodes of Fatman on Batman with Dini and Hamill and it was really good. Dini is so passionate about this shit it's great.
I'll check this out too.
>>84276211
Fatman on Batman is pretty fantastic. Kevin Smith is an annoying ass, but fortunately he's so fucking stoned during those podcasts that the people he brings on are able to just talk freely.
That Kevin Conroy episode brought me to tears. And made me laugh my ass off.ROMEO GOIN' TA MOTHAFUCKIN' JULIARD!
>>84276276
Conroy's story about Death Trap had me in tears tbqh
>>84256683
That was really good.
Watching this stuff now though I do find myself not really liking some of the early Joker episodes though like something seems off about him. In the Kevin Smith interview though Hamill said they actually had a different guy who already recorded like 8 episodes as Joker before they brought him in so he couldn't change the early performances much cause the animation was already done, maybe that's it idk.
>>84276354
Wasn't it Tim Curry? Or did he only do an audition?
>>84267389
That episode was a realgas
>>84276490
I heard he did, and Hamil actually dubbed over his dialogue for continuity.
>>84266876
I thought that he took her to Arkham to get psychiatric help and that she was eventually released and ended up working as a hotel clerk briefly before teaming up with Killer Croc and becoming a criminal again. And then she went back to Arkham for a while.
>>84276721
you are testing my patience carlos
>>84276490
Yes. Tim Curry was originally their first choice, but he had another project that he was already committed to and so he did that instead.
>>84276490
Yea it was Tim. Hamill said it was very similar to Captain Hook that he did for a Peter Pan cartoon. The execs apparently didn't like it, they thought he wasn't crazy enough so the people running the show called up Hamill and when the execs heard his audition they said to replace Curry with him.
>>84276815
Hey, I just liked the ending. It was akiller.
stream where?
>>84276894
>>84269460
I was written like a fucking fan fic
>>84269567
Dini says they could never do BTAS now because the execs think kids don't care about stories that aren't about kids.
That was probably the logic behind young justice, making them younger.
>>84277248
Hasn't that always been the thinking of executives?
>>84277310
Dini claims there was a shift in thinking, he said that's why they forced them to do Beyond.
Beyond was still very good but he said they did it because the execs told them Batman had to be younger.
Just watched appointment in crime ally, another stand out imo.
Dagget pretty gets away with it. Very interesting how corrupt politicians, businessmen, and mobsters are often a bigger problem for batman than costumed villains.
Guys in costumes do overtly illegal things so it's fine for him to beat them up and the police will arrest them because there's always abundant evidence, the other's he is often forced to let walk though.
Really gives you a sense of how deep the problems in gotham run and it does make you question wether he's really changing anything. So what if he sends a costumed freak to jail, they're often victims themselves of the powerful corrupt people in Gotham that Batman can't touch. Being Batman is suffering.
>>84277706
It's that stuff that makes me appreciate Mask of the Phantasm as an adult. As a kid, the mafia and political fund-raising elements went right over my head. I didn't understand it at the time.
>>84277351
Man reading up on how Beyond came to be is something else
>Hey Paul, we want you to make a Batman cartoon, only Batman is a teenager and in high school
>That sounds kinda stupid, how about we dont do that?
>Ha ha Paul, Paul. We already signed off on it, it's going to happen, so either you write it or someone else will
>Uh, okay, what if it's like a dystopian future and Batman passes on the mantle to a new guy
>Is the new guy a teenager?
>Yes
>Yeah, sure, whatever
>>84278114
Didnt BTAS start to tank after they made Robin a huge focus? If so, why keep focusing on kids? If not, why cancel BTAS?
>>84269279
But he didnt.
>>84277041
Holy shit I remember one of the latest episodes where everything was an info dump to tie up loose ends. Not exaggerating. 20 minutes of characters speaking variations of "and then this happened because that happened". Who fucking allows those things to happen?
>>84273980
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z65aq1EVGhs
>>84266876
>Some random henchwoman was able to take on Batman and Robin and actually beat them.
>>84279114
I always wanted to see more of her. Professional henchwoman just in it for the paycheck, and she fucking earns that check. Seems like Gotham would have an entire industry for people like her.
>>84276133
You can see letters and maybe form words but it would be something like fn2390ntirev2w3kj3kl if you tried to read a paper and it would keep changing around.
>>84255285
Fun fact. A 13-year-old Josh Keaton voiced the young version of Arnold Stromwell's priest brother in that episode in the flashback with the train.
>>84279599
You can find some curious VAs in those episodes, like a really young Elisabeth Moss voicing the invisible guy's daughter.
>>84279114
Mooks gotta win sometime
Just got to Perchance to dream
I remembered this one from when I was a kid. Very good episode. Didn't fully appreciate the ending when I was young though, "I was willing to give you whatever life you wanted just to keep you out of mine"
The tragic nature of the costumed villains in this really makes you appreciate when Batman doesn't kill them and you see that just like real life the real problems are the corrupt businessmen and politicians Batman often can't touch.
is there a definitive dvd or bluray collection of btas?
>>84282517
Yes
>>84283672
What is this then?
>>84278273
he saved a different guy in the episode, previously. the guy this guy is getting the gas chamber because he was framing
>>84261528
BTAS is best Batman because it's objectively best Batman.
It's the Platonic Form of Batman. Stop watching mere shadows of Batman on the wall.
Just listened to the Kevin Conroy episode of Fatman on Batman.
What a sad life he's had. Very interesting though and he is the definitive Batman for sure.
>>84256283
The Catwoman episodes always struck me as weak. They couldn't make Catwoman a regular plain ol' thief until late in the series; she had to be an environmentalist. I don't know why.
The episode with Catwoman and Batgirl, an obvious setup for a spinoff that never happened, was fun though. Especially the twist on one of the worst cliches of comics and cartoons:
> "If you let him fall, you'll be no better than he is."
> "Oh, grow up." [lets him fall}
>>84255285
Because advertisers don't want to pay for shows that get too many viewers outside of the demographic they're paying for.
This was a problem all the Warner TV cartoons eventually had in the '90s. They were pulling in a lot of different age groups. Only the advertisers were buying time to sell to little kids. They didn't benefit from viewers who weren't going to buy the products being advertised.
This is the same thing that goes on now with stuff like the Marvel superhero cartoons. The commercials are targeted to young boys, so they actively don't want adults to enjoy the shows, or at least they don't care if they do.
>>84285098
This is the same thing that has killed pop music.
Companies just wanna maximize returns so everything is like design by focus group now.
I think the biggest thing this show got right is the relationship between Batman and Bruce. When he's at his parents grave in phantasm basically begging them to let him stop its beautiful.
Batman and Bruce really don't have a healthy relationship. At times its almost like Batman holds Bruce prisoner, there's so many things he can't do because of him, but at the end of the day Batman is who he really is and that's why he can't stop, deep down he doesn't really want to but I think he hates that he feels that way. I mean he was offered a good life as Bruce in perchanse to dream and he tried to accept it but in the end he couldn't.
This is also probably the best aspect of the dark knight returns, the idea that he just can't stay retired because Batman won't let him. Snyder was trying to show that in BvS I think but I'd say he largely failed.
>>84285098
>actively don't want
Any groups that seriously do that are stupid, as there's unintended benefits(other demographics buying products) with only few consequences(blurred/bad statistics or Quozls).
I can believe it if the show only pulls the 'wrong' demo or even a majority of 'wrong' versus the initial, but if a thing is successful, it's better to sling the money/product towards what is making it successful than to tank it because it's going a way different than you expected.
