>the antagonist does it because he's bored
>Justice prevails, but at a cost
>>84220766
>>the protagonist does it because he's bored
>antagonist's life revolves around the protagonist
>everyone around the protagonist gets killed but he somehow doesn't
>>84220766
What's wrong with that?
>>84220766
Seems like a reasonable motivation to me.
>>84220874
Are you the person who likes those off-work villain episodes?
>antagonist does it to save Europe
>>84220881
What the hell are you trying to convey with this reaction? Because I don't think I often experience the "severe sports related brain damage" emotion.
>>84220913
Its honestly worse than the antagonist being evil because hes evil
>>84220766
But peace is boring when you think about it. There's always gonna some whack job that wants to deviate from the norm.
>>84221245
Why?
>>84221364
Because I dont like it
>>84221391
Violent reactions to prolonged boredom is to me a much more believable human reaction than just being a evil mofo for no real reason.
>>84221449
In both cases (because I was board/because I'm evil) it comes off as lazy.
>>84221449
I AKU SHAPESHIFTING MASTER OF DARKNESS, NEED NO REASON FOR BEING EVIL, FOR AKU IS BEING OF EVIL!
>Character is allways bored
>the antagonist wasn't the antagonist
>>84221644
Chubby birb
>antagonist does it to get the protagonist's attention
>>84223425
Is that a reaction or an example?
>>84220766
>>84223637
yes
>>84220766
COMPLEX MOTIVES
>antagonist does not believe they're doing wrong, but instead believes that they're doing what it right
>>84221364
Not that anon, but it's a weak excuse when they don't apply the frustration of their boredom universally.
For example nothing bores me more than an antagonist who goes on about simply enjoying the brutality of the fight against heroes and blah blah but when an equally powerful and far more brutal villain shows up suddenly they remember they have to do laundry.
So it's not that they're bored, they're evil for the sake of evil but hiding their cowardice, conveniently only inconveniencing heroes.
They won't deal with their boredom tussling with the myriads of disposable evil organizations or alien invasions or anything that would offer them as much violent entertainment, resource profit from ransacking or whatnot. You can basically hear the writer saying
>Look I just need someone simple minded to be a mild nuisance to fill out the plot
And don't give me that Sauron excuse either. You can bet your last dollar if feeding off an evil mutant might inadvertently stop a problem he'd suddenly have that laundry to do.
Also, just to be clear cases where this is subverted are enjoyable to me. Battle Beast started out as an antagonist to Invincible interested only in fighting the strong but later took his boredom out on the Viltrumites and Thragg who posed a bigger challenge. Shame what became of him, but I guess that's what happens when you actually walk the walk instead of just big talking. I guess I should also praise the time Riddler became a detective to prove for a fact he could be smarter than Batman and most crooks, though that didn't last long. I'm unsure if Mongul jr. vs the Arkillo counts since it was more a matter of succession as Corps leader than either acting on their nature alone. Also Arkillo became a pussy shortly after.
>Villain is basically a conservative strawman written by a liberal
At this point you're simply gonna greentext every possible antagonist motivation there is because it's all been done before. There's absolutely no motivation that can be thought of that in some way hasn't already been done, no matter how you word it.
>>84220766
>Antagonist does it because he's working for a bigger bad than him
>the antagonist does it for no other reason than pure spite
>when you think you get a cool new villain
>turns out hes just the regular villains newest hench
i felt like zant had a lot of potential but what the fuck ever
>>84223725
has this ever happened
>the antagonist does it because they were wronged by people that they trusted
>antagonist realizes the universe has no meaning and because of this becomes some nihilistic faggot that thinks that the lack of god or greater purpose is a good excuse to ruin other peoples day
>show/comic try to make it look like he has a valid point behind this mindset
>>84223996
Not /co/ but still
>>84223996
Mad Stan?
A lot of what he said wasn't exactly wrong but he was convinced somehow blowing up things, and sometimes people accidentally or otherwise, would resolve the problems. Even though that conclusion clearly made no sense, but as Bruce pointed out he was also clearly too paranoid and disturbed from all the sociopolitical injustices he had in his head to function, so there you go.
>Antagonist is a former (presumed dead) friend of the hero
>>84223725
>Antoganist is just in it for the money
>>84224170
>Antagonist is just in it for the money and quickly changes loyalties if offered more, or loses interest if the task isnt worth the payday
>>84220989
'''''''''''''antagonist''''''''''''''
>>84220766
>Antagonist does it because he is a troubled person with deep seeded emotional issues
Honestly, I have more problems with this then with the fact that they are bored. Mostly because everyone writes evil as explainable these days. Writes them to have some horrible trauma or unfortunate life choice that spiraled them down.
Just give me a fucking villain who does it because he is EVIL.
>>84223996
Are you new to Comix and Cartoonz? That sort of thing happens all the time.
>>84225178
Man, fuck brown elves.
>>84225236
Men do fuck brown elves.
>>84225267
>Implying
Brown elves are fucking disgusting. Especially the girls.
No man under the emperor's light would touch such disgusting creature.
>>84220766
>unfitting music
>>84225236
I'd love to, but I can't.
>>84223803
>antagonist is supposedly the one in charge of the evil organization, but is really just being pulled along by the obligations that come with that position, in order to serve the organization's obligations to its members and shareholders, whose desires are arguably selfish but really are inevitable given their context as dictated by circumstances outside their control going back years if not decades, and those circumstances were arguably brought about by the protagonist's side but really they're both just inescapably components of a larger web of interconnected social, political, and economic systems, which are controlled by no one and weren't deliberately designed by anyone but still continue to self-perpetuate through sheer momentum from one generation to the next
>>84223996
What, villains that think their actions are justified or for the greater good? Yeah, once or twice, I think.
>>84226488
...Fifth Element?
>>84225236
I would if I could.
>>84223776
So current Marvel comics?
>>84220766
>implying some of the best villains need any other motive other than that.
>>84226619
>Adachi
>Villian
So
What is a good villain motivation?
>>84226958
I think the "antagonist and protagonist want to achieve the same thing but do so with different morals/methods" is usually pretty okay.
>>84226958
love
>>84226958
jealousy works
>>84226958
Because the protagonist has been forced to break the law because of circumstance or necessity in pursuit of their goal
>>84226958
Anything can be a good motivation as long as it logically follows. Interesting villains challenge conventional morality in an interesting way worth of contemplating.
>>84226958
>No Country For Old Men
>The Antagonist has already won and the Protagonist from another time line has to stop him.
I've wanted to be a villain for as long as I can remember.
The villains have the coolest aesthetics, most charismatic personalities, wittiest lines, most luxurious places to call home, raddest vehicles, most admirable determination, most grandiose goals, most impressive costumes, and, above all, the most fun.
I want to be evil because it's thrilling and gratifying in a way nothing else really is.
Honestly, being a supervillain is the only thing close to a career goal I've ever had. My greatest lamentation is that I don't live in a world where villainy exists as a profession, like in Venture Brothers, where it's more or less an accepted part of society. I don't actually want to hurt anyone, and derive no pleasure from pain. I'd love to have a worthy nemesis to basically play-act games of cat and mouse with, though.
>The Antagonist IS the good nice guy
>>84223815
love this one though especially if it involves a conspiracy.
>>84224080
Kinda arguable because his whole character is about being a willing hypocrite who really seems to revel in serving his evil lover deep down
>>84224138
But that's the tightest shit when done well. Especially if there's a redemption.
Also
>Villain is entirely the fault of the hero, and the hero has to take responsibility and own up to his mistakes
>The character development actually sticks
>>84221364
It's not interesting. It's not grandiose or deep or morally, intellectually or emotionally challenging.
>Antagonist is a hero manipulated by rival antagonist as a false flag operation
>the antagonist created the protagonist because he was bored and gets more than he bargained for
>>84227306
>My greatest lamentation is that I don't live in a world where villainy exists as a profession
Various forms of mercenary, criminal and terrorist organizations exist all over our world and very much are a profession and accepted part of society, at times a cornerstone for some.
It's not a lacking on the part of our world in providing, it's the wafty aspirations of those who are content to dream through their nights and sleepwalk through their days who lack either the skill or stomach for what gets done outside their mundane lifestyle.
>>84227306
you should be a DM
>>84227518
That's not what I'm looking for. There's a difference between being a supervillain and being a criminal. It's presentation.
>>84227529
I have been thinking about getting into D&D, actually.
>The antagonist specifically wants to challenge the hero to make them a better hero
>>84227537
>Megamind reference
Good taste
>>84227306
I want to write a comic about this anon trying to become the world's first supervillain
>>84227552
do it dawg you seem like the kinda guy that would be great, just go to /tg/
>>84227306
So, like, a gangsta rapper who plays mindgames?
>>84227559
That's very flattering.
>>84227565
Will do, thank you.
>>84227601
Honestly, this is a good villain concept, Not my style, but completely respectable. Isn't there a Doctor Doom themed rapper?
>>84227509
Preacher
>for the antagonist, it was tuesday
>The antagonist has complex but flawed motivations that he has spent some time thinking about, but doesn't spend enough time to work through the logic to reach the inevitable conclusion because he needs to finish what he started and he can't afford to be distracted right now
>>84227306
You do know that those guys are rich because they do work right?
I mean they didn't become a villain and BAM they're living the easy life
>>84227267
The protagonist goes evil and rules the world and it's up to an alternate universe version of the antagonist to go and save him
>>84227764
Of course.
>the plot is more involved than a simple protagonist vs antagonist structure
>regular villain has become commonplace and not seen as too much of a threat anymore
>superior new villain comes
>old villain kicks their ass with surprising competence
Unapologetically love this
>We're not so different, you and I!
>>84227623
MF Doom
>The antagonist is mad because society don't let him have a romantic relationship with a 10yo goth girl, so he reveals against society's narrow minded views about love using robots and AI he made, but he gets caught up in a fight with the muslim scum and now have to save the world from an impending doom as the jewish goverment, feminist activist, the russian goverment, EE UU gorverment and his servants and the EU joins the side of the Muslim to eliminate him, so he decides to side forces with alien bird people and insect people. the Australians and a muscular Nigel Farage (who just want to piss off the Eu a bit more with his sick bans) in a coalition to stop the world from dying out and to let men and little girls experience the truest and purest for of love ever know to mankind
>>84227856
That's the one. I need to give him a listen.
>Villain takes over the world
>Turns out to be a much better place
>Even the heroes have to face this unexpected fact
>The villain gives up his position of power because he misses the thrill of conquest and resents the chains of responsibility
This happened twice, to my knowledge. Once with Doom, and once with Mojo Jojo, of all people.
>>84227029
god, miller's revised inks in dkr are so fucking grotesque.
>The Hero was the real villain all along
>>84226958
Personally I'd like to see more good ol' fashioned revenge.
>>84223995
Zant got his revenge tho. Mother fucker snapped Ganondorf's neck
That is going to give him nightmares every reincarnation.
>Guy ended up losing lover/family something going wrong/government intervention
>Guy becomes villain out of revenge against those who caused him to lose lover/family
>Hero tells villain "IS THIS WHAT ____ WOULD HAVE WANTED"?
>Antagonist does it because he lost the ability to believe in a better way
>>84227029
Man do I love Miller's Joker.
His interpretation of an aged Joker who's had a while to think about Batman and has chilled out into more of a cold psycho is great.
>>84227450
Not everything needs to be
>>84223996
almost every villain ever, although it's implied that the villain's "right" and everybody else's "right" are 2 completely different rights
>>84226958
Despair
>the antagonist does it because he was rejected by a girl
>>84229537
Who is this semen demon.
>>84228271
>Villain says "Yep" And continues to do it
>the antagonist does it because the plot demands it
>>84224080
also not /co/ but both spiral king and anti spiral
>>84220846
Beat me to it
>>84228271
>Guy ended up losing lover/family
is this a good villain motivation on it's own because i'm writing one of those right now. it's basically like
>dude was leader of old mafia style gang
>retires and has a wife and kids after a big war, keeps his past life secret from them
>people from his past come back and try to kill him, his wife ends up dying in the process
>his son blames the dad entirely and goes fucking nuts
>his only goal is to get stronger so he can kill his dad
>protagonist meets up with him and fights him a few times, some of his friends are killed by the son
>beats the son without knowing what drove him crazy
>son dies without redemption or revenge, screaming in agony
>father hears about this and also goes for revenge against protagonist
>regresses back into his old gang life, also kills a protag friend
>even if his son was crazy and was trying to kill him, he was still his son and he loved him
>protagonist has to live with the burden of this guilt and realizes that his actions have major consequences, even if they are for the greater good and the world was better off without him
![14cdfb4b7e5422a75d80805da906c336[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/X8xxOv4.jpg "14cdfb4b7e5422a75d80805da906c336[1].jpg")
>the antagonist is supposed to redeem himself
>doesn't suffer greatly
Redemption can only come through suffering
When will retarded writers understand this simple concept?
>>84225178
Man Kabaneri turned to shit when Biba showed up.
We spend literal episodes watching him slaughter thousands of innocents, but the show still acts as if he's somehow an individual deserving of pity.
Thank fuck, they destroyed any chance of him ever showing up again, should there be a sequel.
>>84229910I'm not crying, you're crying
>>84220766
>When it's the natural way of the world.
Everyone in one piece are rowdy assholes or worse. Even the protagonists rob places blind
>Creators try to give villains a complex motivation
>still somehow manages to boil down to "because I'm evil"
>>84226958
Circumstance and clear conflicting ideals that puts him in the heroes path. It's always the best
>>84229801
Anime is a terrible thing
>>84220766
>>84226958
Because your parents are rich and don't approve of your lifestyle
>>84229910
>realizes that his actions have major consequences
This is fine. Very important lesson.
>protagonist has to live with the burden of this guilt
This not so much. While anyone can feel guilt for any reason and I can't restrict a writer from deciding the whos and whys, it still feels a little narratively forced for someone whose friends were callously murdered by a repeat homicidal maniac to suddenly give pause and lament the tragic source of this one nutjob's psychosis. It's not like he killed his friends because they were connected to his problem, he just did it because. If the protag died with them the son would be no better off alive or dead and certainly wouldn't feel or get any better. Mad dogs have to be put on a leash or put down. Father neglected to do the first so it's left to the victims to deal with it. Where was daddy's concern with the matter while his son was drawing all his problems?
I mean I know mafia stick to blood first, they'll overlook just about anything family does, but if the protag fails to point out how the death of his wife which caused all this was done in a similarly dismissive manner as the son killing random people then fuck it, just do the father in like the son and wrap up a family of bad apples to be put in the trash where they belong. Pity is one thing, but no good will come from feeling guilt for ending these sort of sad lives.
Two killers in the cornfield or twenty bodies in the morgue, do the math.
>>84226958
BENEVOLENCE
>>84230076
but anon, if you kill him you'll be just like him!
>>84230076
much more time is spent talking to the father than fighting him and the protagonist has plenty of time to say his piece on what you covered. the father does see that he was wrong, moves on from his son's death and forgives the protag, but it takes him a few years to do so. his story does end with him eventually joining the protag in the last battle against the final villain and i know everyone loves that shit. also a lot of the guilt the protag deals with is not so much the effect it had on the father, but moreso the effect it had on his now dead friends and everyone else who lost them.
>>84230104
i made it a point to never include this. my characters are rulebreakers from the start and have no qualms about killing crazy people who deserve it. it's not like they won't try to resolve it peacefully, but if it's made clear that's not an option, they don't have a problem with it.
>villain describes themselves as evil, does not view themselves as being good
>hero fights for the right reasons, but the wrong cause
>villain fights for the wrong reasons, but the right cause
>Naming RPG characters after your dead wife
>keep casting revive on them and crying
>>84225103
Antagonist does it for Patriotism
>>84229643Junko Enoshima
>>84221364
it's stupid lazy bullshit and a cheap ass excuse for the writer not to try.
>The Protagonist is a huge fucking loser
>The Antagonist is an even bigger loser
>>84229967
I agree. THe show was dancing around the "cliche-pit" pretty well until he showed up, and then it just took a fucking swandive directly into it.
>the antagonist is doing it for some "complex" reason and not because he or she is bored/petty
Life isn't complex or interesting. Fiction should reflect that.
>>84225178
It's called bulverism. Skipping explaining why someone is wrong and explaining why he would be so wrong. Lazy/stupid writers would give villain traumatic backstory so they don't have to consider the possibility that he makes sense. Not that he necessary does, but they won't examine their beliefs at all to not endanger audience's and their own worldview.
>Villain straight up does evil for money>There's an actual corporation for evil villains in the universe
>>84220766
>the antagonist is basically 4chan
>>84220766
>Antagonist does it because he's bored since he keeps his memories across reincarnations
>>84234453
>Antagonist does it because she's bored since she's stuck in a timeloop
>>84232069
>Antagonist does it FOR AMERICA
