Do you think Wanda ever apologised to all the Avengers for mindraping them, or did she get away with it because she's cute?
>>84194378
She let them all fuck her
>>84194378
Wanda is a sweet cinnamon roll too good for this world
>>84194402
Even Black Widow
>>84194378
>>84194378
I dunno. You think Tony ever apologized for making Ultron or did he just get away with it by being charming?
>>84194416
Especially Black Widow.
>>84194378
With regular sexual favors.
>>84194408
Nigger don't you use my waifu's meme
All the characters in MCU are flat personality soulless puppets so I don't think so.
>>84194378
Probably the latter.
It happens all the time
>>84194378
May favorite part of that scene is Clint blaming Tony for getting locked up. Where the fuck is the logic.
>>84194533
Don't forget he made a joke about Rhodey being paralyzed just hours after it happened, and literally went "Lalalala" when Tony tried to reason with him.
Hawkeye was a cunt in this movie.
>>84194378
Before the Stark bomb Wanda was likely a shy, harmless girl who never hurt anyone, and never wanted anything more in life than the love of her family.
Thus she and Tony are both scarred by trauma of parental loss, and they both are weighed down by deep self-loathing and guilt.
Wanda and Tony don't speak to each other at all. I doubt they hate each other they just cannot connect. She's everything Tony does not understand, while Tony might as well be from another planet.
It's just too awkward...too difficult. Tony clearly wanted Steve to talk to her about the house arrest protocol because he has no idea how to hold a conversation with her (and vice versa).
Steve and Clint are cool with her, both see the good in her, Clint feels a duty to help and nurture her and thus honor Pietro, while Steve believes in her, that's important because Wanda does not believe in herself.
>>84194441
Natasha rams her everynight with a huge strap-on.
>>84194378
>>20 something
>>not accountable for her actions because "she's just a kid"
I hate this shit.
>>84194750
So he was in character
>>84195276
He's supposed to be a likeable jerk. Not just an asshole you want to get punched in the face.
People lile to go "BASED RUSSOS" but they (and/or Markus & McFeely) really deopped the ball with Wanda. She went from a flawed character who would take the lead to a timid, innocent victim. CW Wanda felt like an anime girl.
>>84195418
Wanda will have to take the lead in Infinity War, given she is likely the only Avenger who can counter Thanos (and maybe, just maybe, another opportunistic god). She will have to step up, and dig deep to find that inner strength.
Her timidity in CW is a reflection of her trying to rebuild her life, and feeling very uncertain due to having no family or home, so she's unsure what her purpose really is. Her arc is all about self-belief, this frail person realizing how strong she really is.
>>84194378
why would she
>>84194750
>Don't forget he made a joke about Rhodey being paralyzed
What the fuck? What did he say?
>entire movie ends with no consequences whatsoever
And this is why Marvel sucks
>>84198595
Not a single superhero movie ever has had any meaningful consequences.
The status quo always ends up restablished unless it's the ending of the franchise.
In fact, we have had 3 heavy hitters from the 3 main capeshit franchises this year and not a single one had any consequence.
>>84194750
>joke
he wasn't making a joke dumbass, he was insulting tony by saying it was his fault
>>84195418
in AoU she had a clear enemy to fight and the conviction of believing that she was right. she ended up being wrong.
in CW we see a more mature Wanda who's learned not to fly off half-cocked, and who is learning that her consequences have actions. She proceeds to doubt herself and the side that she's on because people see her as the bad guy and she's not so sure she isn't one.
It's a solid character arc if you're not a sperg.
>>84194533
If Tony didn't catch him, he wouldn't have gotten locked up.
Considering Cap's side was right, I can see why he'd think that way.
>>84198815
>Cap's side was right
According to who?
>>84198912
According to the fact that Bucky had in fact been framed and that Zemo did in fact have access to at least a dozen supersoldiers and was currently on his way to go activate them (as far as the heroes knew.)
If Tony had stopped to listen, instead of "run[ning] out of patience" and starting a fight, none of the Avengers would have ended up in prison, Rhodey wouldn't have been injured, and Zemo would have been stopped. All of those things happened specifically because Tony was too stubborn for diplomacy.
On the other hand, if Cap had surrendered and everyone turned themselves in, Zemo would have gotten to the bunker unhindered. Yes, he ended up killing the soldiers rather than activating them, but no one (including the audience) had any reason to predict that, and after realizing he hadn't been followed he might have changed his plan and activated them anyway. Since things didn't happen that way, there's no way to know.
So yes. Objectively speaking, Cap's side was right.
>>84198595
If you interpret consequences by binary metrics such as characters dying, then there were none.
> The Avengers are fractured
> Tony still bitter about Bucky
> Rhodey is crippled
> Vision feels guilt about Rhodey yet is cut off from the one person who could help him
> Wanda disilusioned, apathetic, and increasingly aloof from humanity. May be very hesitant to intervene in future.
Some concept art.
>>84199780
>>84194402
I imagine the avengers as a gang and to join you either have to get jumped in out have a train ran on you
>>84195142
Only because Wanda brainwashes her into doing so.
>>84200017
So Wandaliterally fucks herself via Natasha in a kind of guilt-fuck.
>>84194402
The only right answer.
>>84199707
>>84199728
>>84199754
>>84199780
>>84199968
No torrent yet?
>>84198643
>implying a "consequence" is an inherently bad thing
BvS had consequences, they just happened to be mostly hope-filled ones. And Superman dying temporarily. Batman becomes a true hero again, Wonder Woman has returned from her 100 year absence, the JL is being formed, Darkseid is coming. The "status quo" in the DCEU was heroes being gone, but it's changed to heroes are back and will rebuild.
>>84200607
>Darkseid is coming. The "status quo" in the DCEU was heroes being gone, but it's changed to heroes are back and will rebuild.
Because it's the second movie in their universe and you have to set up the league somehow.
>>84200880
The why of it doesn't matter. You're changing the goalposts. Fact is, there were consequences.
>>84201409
We are talking about consequences in the middle of your universe, something that Marvel hasn't done.
>>84194427
You need to be put in check!
>>84195142
Wanda doesn't need a strap on with those powers.
>>84194378
haaa, no
>>84201526
Basically every origin story has consequences.
And what about the lost of shield or Loki claiming the throne of Asgard behind Thors back.
Wanda had lost her brother, her entire family, her nation, her and had helped the Avengers having realized her error. Pietro's saving Clint means he would not ask for an apology.
I do think she said sorry to the others, to Cap she is a kindred spirit, a fellow immigrant and "weapon" trying to make a new life in a foreign world. She's kind of the biggest test of his belief in people.
Vision knows she has made mistakes but also sees a good decent person.
Natasha seems to have issues with Wanda, being a bit pissed at her indecisiveness and emotional nature.
It's pretty clear that Steve, Vision, and Clint are her only truly solid friends.
Scott has none of the baggage of AoU so seems fine with her.
I think with Tony its alot more awkward; they both feel a complex mix of animosity, fear, and guilt towards each other. They don't understand each other at all, but I believe there is some empathy between them. It's not all hostile, but there's alot of Force Works in there.
>>84203903
>Natasha seems to have issues with Wanda, being a bit pissed at her indecisiveness and emotional nature.
Why do people keep thinking Nat has a problem with Wanda. No joke, it has to be autism to think that, right?
>>84201409
Hollow consequences with no dramatic weight behind them. Independence Day 2 had consequences. They weren't interesting consequences.
>>84198643
Avengers are broken.
Tony is a broken man.
Cap is a wanted man and so is Bucky who is in carbonite in a foreign nation.
Vision and Wanda are going to have to have a long talk.
Scott and Clint are prison escapees.
Did you watch the movie? Be honest. There's a lot of consequences here that future character interactions and plots can play off us.
>>84194378
>cute
Nigga her face looks like Maggie Gyllenhall's
>>84198592
>>84198705
He phrased it as a pun. And as an attack makes it an even lower blow.
>>84204176
And he was completely right. Also its an absolutely a hawkeye-ish thing to say
>>84202262
>Tony, I don't do anything except stop terrorists, sometimes people die bu-
YOU NEED TO BE PUT IN CHECK, ROGERS
I'M IN CHARGE HERE
>But what about the Battle of Ne
ROGERS
>What about Ultron
ROGERSSSSSSS
UR GOIN 2 JAIL!
>>84204066
The Avengers are broken in ways that are worse than if they had split up, because of the messiness and dysfunction that ensues.
Vision and Wanda can't even talk because of the Accords, while the latter may well be shepherded away from Earth for training by Strange.
>>84204396
The entire time Tony was trying to calmly use reason and cover Cap's ass. Cap was the one who shut his ears.
>>84204296
Hawkeye is supposed to be a charming smartass, not a douchebag who talks like a 12 year old /b/ poster.
>>84204526
Giving a lot of credit to 12 year old /b/ posters, normally they just scream nigger
Wait, it's 2016
They scream reddit and jew.
>>84194750
Hawkeye in the MCU is endlessly more interesting, especially as a family man, than in the comics. I hope that he becomes the leader of the Avengers when Cap/Steve is gone, like he has occasionally in the comics. There is a reason for all the DaddyClint jokes. I loved his attitude in Age of Ultron.
A shame his actor is 45, as unless they are going to let Hawkeye get middle aged visibly over what is supposed to be less than a decade of timespan, he is going to have to retire before that. Being that Renner isn't as big as RDJ or Scarlett, and Hawkeye isn't as iconic, they could have kept him as a mainstay and the veteran of the team when everyone elses contracts run their course.
>>84195061
I still don't get how Tony got out of literally every fucking shady event his name has been involved with, the max being that meeting he had in Iron Man 2. He should be the first one in the Raft in CW, just on past alone.
>>84199115
Huh, thanks anon. I've gotten so used to shock deaths in floppies being used as 'consequences' that you actually just shook me out of that stupid mindset. After all, killing character for the sake of drama is cheap. All those things you listed are pretty interesting consequences and true.
Well done anon, you just changed someones mind on 4chan. I don't see the MCU as shallow and consequence free as I did. In fact, I'm starting to see all of them more clearly. A major one being how every film is weighing heavily on Stark, leading up to the mess he has become.
>>84203903
>guilt towards each other.
Tony should have this. Whether he changed his ways or not, it was his war profiteering that killed her family. Even Pietro in the end, as it was Ultron, his creation, that murdered him.
Tony never considers the repercussions of his own actions, while being terrified by those of others.
>>84204452
Cap knew where he stood, and held his ground. Even then, he was allowing himself to be swayed, until he picked up on the Wanda situation.
Tony is currently ruled by fear. He has been since the nuke in Avengers and the events of Iron Man 3.
>>84198815
>Considering Cap's side was right,
Stopped reading there
>>84199078
>B-b-b-b-ut Zemo!
Cap side was only "right" in regards to Bucky being framed the way how they went about everything else was wrong and only managed to make shit worse in the process.
>If Tony had stopped to listen
Cap literally told he to go fuck himself during the airport sequence he wasn't about to talk to anyone. During that entire sequence Tony's side was going easy on them.
> if Cap had surrendered and everyone turned themselves in, Zemo would have gotten to the bunker unhindered.
Right and his plan would have failed because it hinged on Cap, Bucky and Tony getting to the bunker. So pretty much if Cap didn't act out like a jackass the Avengers would still be together at most Zemo would have just killed the rest of the soldiers, Rhoney wouldn't have been injured and they live to fight another day as oppose to going after Zemo which just made a bigger mess out of things and the Avengers separated and the villain winning.
>>84205222
>Cap knew where he stood, and held his ground
Now a four people are on the run from the law. Zemo essentially won and the Avengers are in disarray
>>84205767
Cap also held information from Tony. And considering Wanda's crimes, her not being allowed to leave th bunker was the sensible decision.
Tony's company sold weapons, but he wasn't the responsible of Wanda's parents deaths, and well she fucking helped Ultron big time with his plans. Shit that ultimately end up killing her brother
>>84195061
Ha, the Stark bomb. First time I saw it I thought, 'that ain't no Stark bomb'.
It misfired.
Stark creations don't misfire.
That was a made-in-China copy with his logo spray-painted onto it.
>>84204088
Wanda a qt
I WANNA FUCK WANDA.
>>84206052
Leave, Vision, you dun goofed.
>>84204159
btfo
>blames the manufacturer of the bomb that killed her family and not the people who fired it like a moron
>signs up to hydra, a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION and lets them experiment on her for revenge
>attacks her enemies group of friends who do nothing but try to protect innocent people
>mindrapes her enemy and lets him go with an extremely dangerous weapon as if nothing bad would happen for the ebin lulz
>when that doesnt pan out teams up with an obviously GENOCIDAL KILLING MACHINE
>hmm lets set the Hulk loose on a rampage near Johannesburg I'm sure no civilians will get hurt :^)
>almost gets the ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET destroyed because she abandons the doomsday device she promised to guard to get revenge on the robot that was going to be destroyed soon anyway
>extremely overpowered mind control and telekenetic powers but is somehow still worse than useless on the team and gets dozens of random people killed by levitating a suicide bomber next to a building
>gets uppity that Vision wouldn't let her go down to the shops when it's obviously for her own safety
>stabs him in the back to get involved in Cap's stupid mission for no reason other than being a bitter bitch where she does nothing but rack up more property damage costs
>was fucking her brother on the down low according to the actors, literally an incestuous slut
glad she is stuck in The Raft getting raped by the guards every day, she deserves it
Wanda did nothing wrong.
>>84206421
>>84206445
Compelling arguments on both sides.
>>84206465
I'm more compelled by those thighs tbqh
>>84206596
Indeed.
>>84205767
>Cap literally told he to go fuck himself during the airport sequence he wasn't about to talk to anyone.
Factually incorrect. Caps first words are "Tony, hear me out" and "You're after the wrong guy." He also mentions that Bucky was framed, and Zemo is about to find an army of supersoldiers. Stark isn't interested in listening.
>Right and his plan would have failed because it hinged on Cap, Bucky and Tony getting to the bunker.
Irrelevant. You can't judge someone's actions based on information they couldn't possibly have known. And as I said, if Zemo wasn't followed he might have changed his plan. We don't know, because it didn't happen that way. But you don't leave a supervillain alone with an army that can topple governments just because you're not certain if he's going to use it.
Now, about the Accords? Both sides had good reasons. But as soon as the airport scene happens, Tony is wrong, and everything that follows is his fault.
>>84199990
More than worth it imo.
>>84206421
But she's not stuck in the raft.
Also
>hormonal teenager
>>84194427
He let them fuck him. Even the hulk.
>>84206421
>gets uppity that Vision wouldn't let her go down to the shops when it's obviously for her own safety
B-but anon I only wanted a packet of prawn cocktail crisps and some Revels :'(
I swear I've seen this exact thread before.
>>84207155
Shut up, slut.
>>84207518
O-okay, sorry...
>>84206421
Stop being so rude to her.
Who was in the wrong here?
>>84207546
Good girl.
>>84204452
It's not referred to as "reason" when it's just guilt brought on by the death of some kid who should have stayed in america.
Tony literally wanted to hand the keys to weapons cache to a bunch of people that tried nuking NYC and forced him to almost have to sacrifice his life in order to avert certain catastrophe.
How anyone can think Cap is wrong is absolutely baffling. They weren't going to be setting up checks and balances for themselves; they would've been making themselves Superman from DKR.
>>84206936
>hormonal teenager
Yeah, no. Wanda's in her early twenties at the youngest.
>>84206421
Wanda is the MCU Mabel.
>>84208364
Who?
>>84206903
>Caps first words are "Tony, hear me out" and "You're after the wrong guy."
Nope he told Tony that the moment he signed up with the Accords that they would be in opposing sides he never at once wanted Tony to "hear him out" and this was alluded again when he fought Spiderman when Peter said thatTony told him EXACTLY what he did. Cap never said shit to Tony and that is EXACTLY the reason it bit him in the ass later. You didn't watch the movie at all Cap was actually the one being unreasonable where Tony wanted tried to settle shit down.
>Irrelevant
Nope, the whole fucking basis of the plot is that Zemo played Cap like a fiddle. He KNEW Cap would follow him, he KNEW his actions would break apart the Avengers, Natasha also alluded to this when she warned him that acting out would only make shit worse for everyone which it did. Everything Cap did was what Zemo planned for since he studied everything about him hence his "blue eyes" comment.
Your argument is irrelevant because Zemo was never going to use the army to begin with, the whole thing was a wild goose chase so that Tony could see the footage. If they had left him be his plan goes to shit but given that this is Zemo he would have had an alternative anyways.
> But as soon as the airport scene happens, Tony is wrong, and everything that follows is his fault.
How is Cap getting half of the Avengers jsiled over a wild goose chase Tony"s fault especially when he was warned twice about the Accords? Everything that happened was the result of HIS actions not Tony.
I want to hug Wanda.
>>84208076
>How anyone can think Cap is wrong is absolutely baffling.
Because the movie's narrative is out right telling you he was wrong.
>Nat: If you do this thing this will happen
>Tony: All you have to do is sign a worthless piece of paper
>Cap: NO YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE BUCKY
By the end of the movie.
>Congrats you did exactly what the villain wanted now you're a wanted man with four other Avengers because you couldn't sign a stupid piece of paper but at least you have Bucky whose innocence doesn't make up for you acting on your own and breaking the law.
>>84208787
Many of us do, anon.
>>84209046
Higher res, I want to see the pores of her skin.
>>84206421
>signs up to hydra, a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION and lets them experiment on her for revenge
What kind of monster would let a german scientist experiment on them to protect their country?
>>84194457
You first.
>>84209075
A monster filled with a lust for revenge, fear, and tragedy over her parents' death.
If you think about it, she's someone robbed of her past.
>>84209295
>drawing comparisons between Wanda and Skullface
>>84194427
>Bringing this up as if 90% of the film wasn't Tony spiraling into depression over making Ultron in the first place/Pepper leaving
You fuckers make no sense.
>>84199078
>and was currently on his way to go activate them (as far as the heroes knew.)
And Bucky was a dangerous brainwashed assassin who Steve would believe any lies from (as far as Team Tony knew).
>>84208076
>It's not referred to as "reason" when it's just guilt brought on by the death of some kid who should have stayed in america.
Tony explains it very clearly.
If they refuse to compromise, they're essentially declaring themselves overlords of Earth. And more pragmatically, if they say "No" the government is going to come after them, and will be far less lenient about any future compromises.
>>84208076
>to a bunch of people that tried nuking NYC
Holy shit, are people this dense?
The movie specifically states that it is NOT those same people.
>>84208076
>They weren't going to be setting up checks and balances for themselves; they would've been making themselves Superman from DKR
It was literally the most fair set of checks and balances possible. Cap (and you) are treating any kind of limitation on his authority as becoming a slave.
>>84209055
Don't have higher res. Take this instead.
>>84209313
Nah, m8. I was making comparisons between the movie and MGS.
Now that I think of it, there are too many similarities between MGSV and Civil War.
>>84209619
What did the accords actually state?
>>84204159
Huh. The team in charge of the German dub totally didn't make the connection and had him say something like "Watch your back around this guy, because chances are he'll put a knife in it:"
>>84209695
Well, Winter Soldier was MGS2.
>>84209826
>TWS is considered by many to be the crown jewel of the MCU
It adds up
>>84209706
That the Avengers can only engage in Avengering when the UN panel allows it.
>>84208763
> he never at once wanted Tony to "hear him out"
Despite the fact that he literally says "Tony, hear me out." He tries explaining things to Tony, and Tony is the one that won't listen. Which makes this funny...
> You didn't watch the movie at all Cap was actually the one being unreasonable where Tony wanted tried to settle shit down.
because I'm literally referencing how things went down in the film. I don't know what movie you watched, but I watched Civil War.
>Nope, the whole fucking basis of the plot is that Zemo played Cap like a fiddle.
The characters can't know the plot of the film that they're in, stupid.
>Your argument is irrelevant because Zemo was never going to use the army to begin with,
We can't know that for sure, because as you say...
>. If they had left him be his plan goes to shit but given that this is Zemo he would have had an alternative anyways.
Yeah, such as using the army of supersoldiers he just found.
Zemo had to be stopped, IMMEDIATELY. Cap knew this. Cap tried to tell Tony this. Tony didn't listen. If Cap surrendered and Tony took him in, EVEN IF Tony decided to give Cap the benefit of the doubt and investigate Zemo by the book, it could have been too late. You can't use fourth-wall meta knowledge to justify Tony's actions based on things Tony didn't know, and likewise you can't discredit Steve's actions based on things Steve didn't know.
And because Tony didn't listen, Rhodey got crippled.
>>84204991
He was already making "cranky old man who's too old for this shit" jokes in CW. Looks like that's the direction they're going with.
>>84210552
>Despite the fact that he literally says "Tony, hear me out."
In your fanfiction maybe but that's literally not the case here.
> because I'm literally referencing how things went down in the film.
No you're not Capfag you're just pushing your own fanfic as fact.
> The characters can't know the plot of the film that they're in, stupid.
So Cap is wrong then. Go to know.
> Yeah, such as using the army of supersoldiers he just found.
Zemo was never going to use the soldiers to begin with so I don't know why you keep bringing that up
> Zemo had to be stopped, IMMEDIATELY. Cap knew this.
Which is why he played directly to his plot. I big thing here is that HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT ZEMO WAS ACTUALLY PLANNING so stop him from doing what?
>Cap tried to tell Tony this. Tony didn't listen
This never happened. The final confrontation of the film came about because Cap didn't tell Tony shit, how the fuck can you honestly say you've watched the movie when the whole reason why Tony wanted Bucky dead was because Cap didn't tell him anything and then you have the gall to say everything was Tony's fault when he was trying to prevent it from happening to begin with?
>>84211477
> Cap surrendered and Tony took him in, EVEN IF Tony decided to give Cap the benefit of the doubt and investigate Zemo by the book, it could have been too late.
This is you talking out your ass. Zemo's plot involved Cap following him so there was no set time limit everyone just assumed he was after the super soldiers there was nothing concrete until the very end.
> You can't use fourth-wall meta knowledge to justify Tony's actions based on things Tony didn't know
What? If they had followed Tony Steve wouldn't be a wanted man, you can't fucking refute this at all. You can't say Cap was right based on nothing when the film is saying the oppisie.
> and likewise you can't discredit Steve's actions based on things Steve didn't know.
Of course I can because the basis of the film is Steve screwing up despite all the warnings set in place, he saved Bucky but became a wanted man in the process and broke up the Avengers as a result hence why Zemo won in the end.
Except Rodhey got injured due to friendly fire and he believed in what the Accords had to offer so he was against what Cap was trying to do throughout that fight Tony's side was going easy on them
>>84210552
You claim that Cap was justified based on the knowledge he had, but so was Tony.
>Cap was right
When will this meme die?
>>84194378
>mindrape them
>all she did was scare them a little
>mindrape
Hi Tony.
Still looking for other people to blame Ultron on?
>>84211728
>all she did was scare them a little
Reading their minds and creating vivid halicinations of their deepest fears is not "scaring them a little".
>>84211477
>In your fanfiction maybe but that's literally not the case here
Sorry, I'm not going to argue with someone who refuses to watch the movie being discussed.
>>84211539
Up until that point, you're absolutely right. As soon as Cap says that they've got the wrong guy, and that Zemo is on his way to find an army of supersoldiers, Tony should have put his reservations aside and done SOMETHING. Listened, cooperated, sent a team, something. Instead he starts a fight by "running out of patience."
>>84211756
>i'm scared
>i'll make an army of killbots controlled by a murderous ai I found in a stick used by a guy who wanted to rule the earth with an iron fist
>what could go wrong
>>84211840
He was just trying to get the AI template from the scepter. It broke out and started downloading itself into kill it's on it's own, bypassing security.
And if we're gonna play the blame game:
>Wah my parents were killed by a bomb he manufactured
>I'll send a giant unstoppable rage monster into a crowded city of innocent people
>You're going to keep me locked in a mansion with my boyfriend? OVER THE LINE!
>>84211830
>As soon as Cap says that they've got the wrong guy, and that Zemo is on his way to find an army of supersoldiers, Tony should have put his reservations aside and done SOMETHING.
>Okay where's your evidence?
>Uhhhhh........
>>84194378
>She is the one who made stark make ultron.
>Everyone blames Tony
>She NEVER mention cap she was the one who started the mess
>Forced Civil War.
>She picks shit with visión.
>Lol tsunderes, cause MCU loves horrible bitches.
Dont ignore nor deny it bros.
>>84211830
Cap had no evidence and had already broken the law at that point and it doesn't help that Bucky gave no reason to trust him. Tony found up by doing research himself because apparently Cap didn't find it important to gave him this important intel
>>84211896
>"My best and only friend, who is known to be a brainwashed supermurderer, told me he didn't do it!"
>>84211896
I mean, if someone calls in a bomb threat, you check it out even if it's just the word of a stranger. If your superhero partner whom you've saved the world with multiple times over tells you that someone's about to find an army of supersoldiers, the smart thing to do is at least hear him out. He could still lock Bucky up while they check it out.
>>84211830
Tony wasn't patient because he had a time limit, which he made clear to Cap. He explained that he had only 12 hours left, and if Cap didn't come with Tony Ross would send a kill squad after them.
It was extremely likely from Tony's perspective that Bucky was lying, too.
>>84211948
>Tony found up by doing research himself because apparently Cap didn't find it important to gave him this important intel
No, Tony found out because Zemo planted evidence. And again, Steve TRIED to tell Tony what was going on at the airport.
You're right, it's not much to go on, but see >>84212006
>>84211830
For what it's worth - you've been dead on right this whole thread and the idiot blaming cap is being obtuse.
I mean if the very fact that it was a *Captain America* movie doesn't give you a clue that the writers think Captain America was doing the right thing, then you're really not paying attention.
Add to that - and kind of a separate subject - if you look at this movie in the context of the one's leading up to it, the characters (both) are reacting pretty emotionally based on their recent experiences.
Captain America - has just been betrayed by the organization he worked for, finding out SHIELD was infiltrated by Hydra and had to stand up for what was right to go against them and stop a government agency from trying to run the world using "super powers (the three big helicarriers)" - and he's projecting that to all governments / agencies / institutions (not unfairly, they obviously can and do get corrupted - one does have to trust one's own moral guidance.)
Iron Man - has just fucked things up so badly trying to do things on his own (Ultron, his personal life with Pepper, things from his past biting him on the ass in IM3, hell - all the way back to calling rhodney to stop the airforce attack and almost killing that piliot because he went off on his own, etc) that he's dealing constantly with the repercussions of his actions and is recognizing that he needs *someone* watching what he does and keeping him in check - and is projecting that out to everybody (not unfairly, just there's a solid emotional reason for it for him. There absolutely *should* be oversight and checks and balances when dealing with this much power and things as complicated as the world stage... but he's (I believe) emotional about it due to his own experiences...)
I thought it was funny that people were saying there's no consequences when this film so much built on the experiences and mental mindsets setup by the previous films in it's character's actions.
>>84212006
>He could still lock Bucky up while they check it out.
That's what Tony planned on doing. Cap refused to turn Bucky over. As soon as the rest of Team Cap is captured, the first thing Tony does is look into Zemo.
>>84212056
To be fair - most of those going after Bucky were looking to kill him, not lock him up. The soldiers had the kill order, Black Panther wanted to kill him as well, etc. Which is part of the reason Cap got involved in the first place.
Is it just me or does Wanda's actress sort of resemble Willa Holland? They have really similar mannerisms when they talk & even sound a bit similar. Am I just going crazy?
>>84212055
>>84212055
>I mean if the very fact that it was a *Captain America* movie doesn't give you a clue that the writers think Captain America was doing the right thing, then you're really not paying attention.
See
>>84208830
Sure does feel like that Russos were on Cap amiright?
>>84211919
Scaring someone isn't the same as mindcontrol fuckboy.
Tony was a shithead and made ultron on his own.
>>84212128
Nah, they have the same cadence and sound particularly similar when Elizabeth Olsen is doing the Sokovian accent.
>>84212233
(Deeply) Affecting someone's emotions doesn't affect their thinking?
Seriously?
Come on.
>>84210250
Do the Avengers ever go around saving random people? I don't think they ever have, so it's not really that big of a deal since the only time they do anything is when the UN would vote for intervention anyway.
>>84212055
>obtuse
Nothing obtuse about it, the problem with retards like you and Capfags seem to believe that signing up with the Accords means becoming a slave when all throughout the movie Tony did what he wanted and the Accords they nothing about. Nat pretty much said its just a piece of paper, you sign it do what you want and at worse you get a reprimand from Ross. Pretty much all the damage done in this film was driven by emotions and could have been avoided if Cap wasn't pigheaded and saw the big picture. He was right about Bucky being innocent but wrong about everything else.
>>84212190
There are consequences for your actions - doing the right thing isn't always going to end up happily-ever-after, it doesn't change that it's the right thing.
Cap put himself on the line to save his friend from being killed for a crime he didn't commit.
Additionally he said he would not submit to any order or agreement that would stop him from doing the right thing when it was needed, even if it meant he would be punished for that.
Then he did everything he could to stop a madman that was being ignored by the other side and who was a legitimate threat to the world.
Trying to dismiss the entire argument by saying "he wouldn't sign a stupid piece of paper" is simplistic, ignoring what the paper stood for and meant to everyone involved and missing the entire secondary plot of being required as part of that "signing" to support the wrongful accusation of an innocent man.
And you're genuinely believing that, on a meta level, people are going to deliberately make an entire super hero movie about the star super hero being wrong... which is pretty damn dumb. I mean - *yes* there were consequences for his actions, but that doesn't make them wrong... it just means it was a hard choice, and that standing up for what's right doesn't always work out great for you, but it doesn't change that it's still the right thing to do.
Think this through a bit.
>>84212319
So... every hero doing exactly what Cap said was the right thing to do - go against / ignore the accords - but lying about it and going back on what they agreed to do - makes Cap the one that was wrong?
Are you even listening to yourself?
>>84212128
I might could see it. But I don't think it's a strong resemblance. I think Olsen has more defined cheekbones and jawline. And maybe a thinner nose.
>>84211896
Shouldn't the convenient blackout that could easily be traced back to that EMP device and the fact that the psychologist interviewing Bucky completely vanished be compelling enough to at least look into Cap's claims?
>>84212371
Doing the "right thing" is no substitute for breaking the law. And what is considered right and wrong differs between people. By your logic I can say what Zemo did was right because he was doing it to avenge his family.
Your argument falls to shit because the film at no point states that the Accords are wrong or that people should be fine with Supes not being governed and held accountable for their actions, so why is Cap any different?
Hmmm....could it mean that the downfall of the Avengers and the fact he played into Zemo's plot meant that he wasn't right and could have went about things differently? Nah I'm sure that was the case with this film especially with that scene where BP gave up on avenging his father while two puppets duke it out because they couldn't see eye to eye and let their emotions get the better of it.
Ultimately the paper meant nothing Cap was being an idiot for no reason other than wanting to cling to his past and now he's a wanted fugitive, if the film's message was that he was right then the Accords would have been dismantled by the end of it.
>>84212393
>So... every hero doing exactly what Cap said was the right thing to do
None of them signed the papers so no also they were blatantly breaking the law
Just a reminder that Steve kept Bucky killing Tony's parents a secret for 2 years, and by doing so made sure that Tony would have the breakdown that he did in Civil War. All because he didn't want to accept that Bucky did it.
>>84212453
Nope
>>84194378
She'll get away with it.
>We did.
>>84194427
Did you fucking watch Civil War you retard?
>>84212678
Of course she will, you don't want her to be sad, right?
>>84212559
You have huge assumptions here, mainly you seem to think that doing the right always turns out to your advantage.
I see what you're trying to say - that if the movie believed it was the right thing then it should have worked out better for him - but that only is true if the movie makers also believe like you do that doing the right thing always should work out to your advantage.
I believe - and I think this is the core of our difference in opinion here - that doing the right thing is often hard and not always (hell - not even often) supported by the rest of the world. They wanted to control Cap and the rest of the team, on paper, legally, they wanted to be able to command them to do what they wanted and - as cap points out - command them *not* to help when they wanted.
Expecting people in power not to want to control people of power and that to "go away" at the end isn't reasonable, not is it evidence that Cap is wrong to want to follow his morals and to help those in need - no matter what those around him say.
And Cap at no point says he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions (which is where your argument, ahem, falls to shit) - saying he doesn't want to be controlled by people is not the same as saying he won't deal with the consequences of his actions - if the accords said "what you do will be reviewed and you'll need to explain yourself / etc - I think the whole movie would have been quite different. Instead they said "you'll do what we say" which is incredibly different.
(cont.)
>>84212899
Cap accepts that his life will be harder and that he's going outside the law to do what he believes is right, that to stand up against an unjust law or unjust authority has consequences and he's facing them and dealing with them. Hell, you could read him giving up the shield at the end is an acknowledgement of that.
And in case you missed it - at the end - Cap once again wasn't fighting "caught up in emotions" - he was just (again!) defending his (Arguably innocent since he was mind controlled) friend from someone seeking to kill him unjustly. He talks to Tony and explains Bucky was mind controlled and Tony says "I don't care, he killed my mom" and emotionally goes after him.
Then Cap defends him. Period. He doesn't kill Tony, he doesn't escalate things, he stops him and ends it and walks away.
Cap defended his friend from unjust killers seeking to kill him the entire movie - that's not a "wrong" thing to do.
Cap refused to sign papers that gave an institution the power to command him to do wrong - that's not a wrong thing to do.
Cap absolutely could have lied, falsely promised to do what they said (like Tony and Nat) and kept his life "easy" - instead he stood up for what he believed was right.
And if you haven't figured out yet that doing the right thing sometimes involves breaking the law... come on. The law isn't always right, and people have to stand up to it and say so - that's how we make progress.
Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker and I think you're aware of it - Yes, Zemo played them. Mostly Tony. He manipulated them into a situation where Tony went murderous on Bucky and Cap had to stop him - that doesn't make Cap wrong, if anything it further shows that Cap was one of the few people in the movie with a clear vision of right and wrong the entire time - even when dealing with very emotional and hard situations.
>>84212637
They straight up say who signed the papers in the scene where tony and cap are talking while Zemo interviews Bucky. They did sign.
>>84212738
Never.
>>84212652
Yeah, he admits that was fucked up in his letter at the end and is sorry about it. Though he says it was more about trying to protect Tony / himself from having to deal with it than about Bucky.
>>84212951
Those are some seriously floppy tits... does she have kids?
>>84213003
that's what most natural tits, and tits outside of porn, look like anon
>>84213003
Maybe the dress, they are quite firm.
>>84212899
>assumptions
All that shit is in the movie mate. If you walked out of that movie thinking Cap was right then you blatantly missed the point.
>stuff
Wrong on all accounts dumbfuck. The narrative never puts Cap as in the right and keeps you on your toes until the end hence why we see multiple angles to the conflict ot nring a movie under his nsme doesn't mean nothing just that he's at the cenyer piece of everything.
>>84212899
>that doing the right thing is often hard and not always (hell - not even often) supported by the rest of the world
But what is the right thing is subjective as fuck. Hell Caps reluctance just proved the Accords right so I don't think you even have a leg to stand on
>Cap at no point says he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions
Which is why he's up in Africa instead of ya know neing in front of court to face up for his crime? You sure told me.
>>84213074
Thank you - that helps.
>>84213070
Hey, she has bigger tits than her porn lookalike.
>>84204991
Here's hoping they kill off his family and he meets a young Kate Bishop for a Netflix series.
>>84213241
Who doesn't even look like her all that much.
>>84213349
kek.
>>84211919
Wanda viewed Tony as a monster for years, but then realized he was no monster, just a flawed human being like everyone. She was confident in her own judgments at the start of AoU probably because her nous had likely enabled she and Pietro to survive for years. That took a massive hit, of course.
Both Tony and Wanda seem to want to defer decisions to others in CW; Tony to the Accords, Wanda to Steve.
>>84209075
>implying HYDRA wasn't endangering Socovia
>>84212434
Maybe if they worked very closely together the differences could be studied more.
>>84213211
You seem to be having such trouble arguing that you're having a stroke. Please calm down.
Also, I give up, maybe other people reading this thread have appreciated someone debating you but you're too stupid to even mount an argument anymore - you're just saying "wrong" now... so... yeah, I give - good luck man.
Just cause you made it look so fun - hey - You're wrong on all accounts dumbfuck!
... yeah, that does feel good. You are useless, just completely useless, there was nothing here of worth, just stupidity piled on stupidity. You make the world worse. I think you've been told enough times by people in real life that you're an idiot that you know you're wrong but you just can't stop yourself. You don't think about character or logic or development or depth you just react to surface and spout idiocy to defend your first thought, it's sad, and tiring and I should go before you speak again.
Wow, that really does feel better. I'm going to stop trying to talk to idiots and just start telling them how fucking stupid they are, it really helps.
You fucking incredible moron. You loser who can't comprehend basic ideas. You simplistic waste of flesh. You poor sad bastard who'll never know what you're missing. God damn. You sad piece of fuck. The best part of you is still in your mother's asshole. You lonely lost pitiful little turd of a person. Jesus.
If you ever grow up - which I honestly don't foresee happening - and look back on this with the shame and despair it deserves? Know you were pitied, and we wished there was something we could do for you, but it was, ultimately, entirely your own fault.
Good night sir.
>>84212921
>Cap once again wasn't fighting "caught up in emotions
That beatdowm he have Tony says otherwise pr was he just defending his friend who killed two innocent victims?
Cap defended a wanted fugitive who can attest to several crimes and by doing so committed several crimes himself in the process ya know as oppose to taking him to justice for trail, the actual right thing to do.
Cap obstructed a bill enforced by the public to keep himself in line nut apparently he thinks he's above the law itself so he can do whatever he wants that's not the right thing to do.
>instead he stood up for what he believed was right.
And now he's a wanted fugitive, broke up a team and still has not paid for his actions. That's not the right thing in fact that's pretty fucking stupid.
> The law isn't always right, and people have to stand up to it and say so - that's how we make progress.
You have to be over 18 to post on thos site kid. Its like talking to a teenager who thinks he's above everyone just because he "thinks" so.
>Mostly Tony
Even though his plan was all centered around CAPTAIN AMERICA being a retard and Tony didn't play his role until the very last bit where it all came into place. Okay.
> that doesn't make Cap wrong, if anything it further shows that Cap was one of the few people in the movie with a clear vision of right and wrong the entire time - even when dealing with very emotional and hard situations.
What the fuck are you talking about. Zemo's entire plan all hampered on Cap being irrational.
>The Avengers got split up
Cap's fault
>Bucky escaping
Caps fault
And the final kicker!
>Tony seeing his parents getting killed by Bucky
Cap knew this shit for 2 years and did not tell Tony, you're going to fucking sit up here with your bullshit and say that Cap had a clear vision of right and wrong when the movie clearly shows his actions biting him in the ass over and over again?
>>84213452
>Blah blah blah Im right you're wrong I'm not listening
Inspiring. Truly inspiring.
Wanda is a terrorist.
>>84212938
Wrong again dumbass
>>84199990
>get jumped in
>by the fucking Avengers
how would that even work
>>84206596
Compelling arguments on both thighs.
I wonder if she misses the rough, super-fast bangings.
>>84213074
DELETE THIS
>>84211893
I think if Steve and Clint hadn't kicked off Wanda would have stayed in the Avengers HQ and likely retired as she would never be able to go on another mission.
>>84214051
no
End of Infinity War Part 1...
Wanda is going to have to make a Key Choice:
> Thanos rips Vision's gem out.
> Wanda goes apeshit and destroys all the Infinity Stones and Thanos.
> The universe collapses and only Chaos remains.
> Thanos rips Vision's gem out.
> Let Thanos walk away and get away with it.
> Kill half of all life in the universe.
>>84212319
The argument isn't about who was right about the Accords, the argument is that Tony fucked up the airport confrontation and as a result Rhodey got paralyzed and half the Avengers are now fugitives. If he compromised at the airport, none of that would happen.
>>84214110
>no bra
SLUT
>>84215023
>no bra
She had one on.
>>84215174
Why are her boobs bouncing that way then?
>>84215296
Chaos Magic.
>>84215296
Because that's gonna happen regardless. Just 'cause her boobs are contained doesn't mean they can't completely bounce some.
>>84214761
The Avengers all fucked up.
> These are the same clowns who will fight Purple Spaceman.
>>84215546
The pants have wrinkles in them.
They need to be tighter.
>>84215600
Her pants are fine.
>>84213929
Considering that she and Evans hooked up constantly during Civil War, probably not.
>>84195418
The Civil War team did fine with Wanda but they just dropped a lot of stuff from Avengers 2.
In Civil War her mind-rape powers are gone or at least never mentioned. No one ever mentions she's from Sokovia, even though Sokovia comes up several times. And of course Quicksilver's existence is completely forgotten.
I don't blame them for any of this, they inherited a character and needed to find a spot for her in a crowded movie, so they focused on the only things they need to know about her: she's young, she's a mutant (they can't call her that but that's pretty much what she's portrayed as, complete with the news media attacking her) and the robot wants to fuck her.
So to the question "will she ever pay for setting the Hulk loose" the answer is probably not, because that's someone else's movie. I don't know what Whedon thought she was doing (did she and Pietro intend to set the Hulk loose? it's so confusing that I have no idea). But the new team tried to make her work for them and they did OK.
>>84216221
It's funny that as the comics double down on their insistence that she is not and never has been a mutant, her screen time in Civil War made her clearly a mutant in all but name. The newscaster complaining about "enhanced individuals," Tony calling her a human WMD, the stuff about how people hate and fear her, that's Mutant 101. She's definitely the most mutant-esque character in the MCU at this point.
>>84209677
>dat leg hair
I didn't know i had this fetish
>>84216221
>In Civil War her mind-rape powers are gone or at least never mentioned.
There really wasn't a a situation for her to use them in the movie. And they're still there. Official media says she still has them.
>No one ever mentions she's from Sokovia,
They don't have to. We already know that. It can be said her being Sokovian is loosely implied when Ross put the Accords in front of her.
>>84216221
She mind-rapes Vision at the HQ, you can see his mindgem turning red as she gains control, and she makes him raise his density so high he falls through the ground
>>84217230
He probably enjoyed it.
>>84194441
There's a part of me that makes me want to think I got the reference, but I'm not even certain there was one.
>>84215600
Tight pants are the way to go.
Wanda becomes tighter as her magiks grow.
>>84216221
When Tony mentions the kid who helped people in Sokovia, Wanda is visibly moved, because she had spent much of her life thinking no one cared.
It's not mentioned directly but it's there.
>>84203987
I actually saw Nat as kind of a big sister type to Wanda. Especially in the beginning where she's giving a lesson on spy craft to her with the other Avengers chiming in. But one could possibly read a little jealousy at the airport fight considering Wanda's "You're pulling your punches" comment to Hawkeye. But the truth is, we don't get to see those two interact enough to get a good read on their relationship. But it is very fun to speculate.
>>84217230
Might also be she controls Chaos, and the stones represent Order.
>>84212233
She intentionally manipulated him into doing something destructive. She says this herself.
>>84216964
Her mind powers seem to be fading.
Her tk seems weaker in CW.
That's perhaps why she could not stop the explosion. Mind powers are being phased out, just as her base powers were weakened in the comics.
>>84213535
No, you are blatanly wrong.
This is an exchange in the movie:
>Steve: Who else has signed?
>BW: Tony, Rhodey, Vision.
>>84217591
>Dr. Strange rolls around
>It's actually a plot point, that something is fucking with the elemental forces of the cosmos, causing magic and other powers to drain away
>It's revealed that the Soul Gem is absorbing a shit ton of energy in preparation for the coming of a prophecy
They could totally do that.
Do you think they would't?
Would they have planned that far ahead and made her slightly weaker as foreshadowing?
>>84216297
Wanda has never really been a true mutant, though, given she's Elderspawn.
>>84217591
>Her tk seems weaker in CW.
I don't see it. Her pulling out that tear-gas cloud and suspending a fucking flight control tower seemed more impressive than anything she did in AoU. The only real difference in how she used her powers between AoU and CW is that, like was pointed out before, she didn't use her telepathy and that she wasn't using her telekenisis to tear her opponents apart.
As far as what's been seen, she hasn't lost shit apart from some potential relationships.
>>84216221
There was probably at least one scene between Wanda and Pietro between the Hulk fight and Seoul.
I think Wanda was shocked at what happened. She obviously was already having doubts about Ultron, hence looking into his mind via the gem.
>>84217512
Its a "Get that Bechdel test over with" episode.
>>84217771
>she wasn't using her telekenisis to tear her opponents apart
that's because robots dont have souls though
>>84217574
Wanda will be manipulated into doing something massively stupid and destructive in Infinity War; fighting Thanos.
Strange probably realizes he has to prevent her from fighting Thanos, as that could destroy the entire universe.
>>84219079
By who? Thanos? Ross to use her as a pawn to further his agenda, what?
>>84217230
I took that as her taking control of the gem because their powers are linked. Vision mentioning that the stone gave her her abilities was a setup for that.
>>84209427
Didn't ask if he felt remorse. We can clearly see that he felt remorse for his actions. I asked if he apologized.
Point of order, Wanda also showed remorse in the climax of Age of Ultron. So if feeling bad about it gives Tony a free pass I'd say it should also give Wanda a free pass.
>>84219364
She obviously told Hawkeye about that as he knew.
Obviously the connection to the Mind Gem is a lazy plot device so Vision can survive Thanos.
>>84219151
Manipulation by someone who wants to destroy the Infinity Stones and reset the universe.
>>84219079
>implying she has reality shaping powers in MCU
She at best has red telekinesis powers or gravity manipulation.
>>84220385
I'm kind of glad the internet would riot if Wanda got killed off and/or evil as I feel that's the only thing that's stopping them from getting rid of her.
She:
> has her rights part-owned by Fox, and kept out of most merchandise and cartoons
> hasn't been written well in the comics since about 2002
> is best known among a whole generation for "no more mutants"
Normally I'd figure she's toast, but they just don't have enough superpowered women even after they introduce Carol Danvers. Feminism will save a very pre-feminist character. Poetry.
>>84220496
The thing that protects her is her being a girl.
SJWs are, for once, useful.
>>84220448
Reality Manipulation? Nope, most likely control of abnormal and unnatural forces outside the influence of the Infinity Stones.
Joe Russo saying no one understands her powers and that they are deeper suggests that we've only got hints thus far.
Logically, her powers cannot be the same as Vision's as that would destroy the thematic core of their relationship; them being diametrical opposites. This is even aluded to in Vision thinking she is the same as him then being shocked that she does not see things as he does. Also Pietro's speed coming from the mind stone makes no sense.
>>84220496
I remember those rumours a few months back...scary times.
> Fucked by Bendis in just about every way you can fuck a character.
> Billy No-Mates of the Marvel Universe
> Banned from comics
> Fox co-owns rights
> Badly written for years
> Her solo comic is isolated from the rest of the MU while other comics cynically cashed in by shovung her into their April/May issues to cash in on CW.
> Even Robinson fucks up ffs
Marvel Cinematic's lack of access to most of their interesting female characters (and perhaps Feige being a Strangefag) has pretty much saved Wanda.
MCU Wanda has yet to be fucked up...it's pleasantly shocking.
>>84221195
>MCU Wanda has yet to be fucked up...it's pleasantly shocking.
Pure, PURE!Until further notice.
>>84221312
She wants the robo D pham.
>>84221339
Don't you mean synthetic? He's kinda more advanced than an Android as far as I can tell.
>YWN cook and have a nice evening of paprikás csirke with some кoмпoт with her
>Bedtime
Goodnight, Wandabros
>>84221978
Wish I could sleep with her.
>>84221978
>>84222028
I want to cuddle her and keep her warm.
>mfw all the silly boys after me
>>84222062
We all do.
>>84215619
I wonder how much she sweats in that onesie.
If. >>84211632. Are. A. Vigilante. >>84211632. Are. Already. Breaking. The. Rules.If you're a government sponsored attack dog the rules will eventually yank the leash one day and your inaction will cost others for the sake of your peace of mind
>>84199115
But the Avengers are really fractured. Steve wanted to help Tony, whenever he might need, and Tony didn't take the letter badly. Everything points out that the two of them will patch up and reunite both teams.
Rhodey also started therapy and will be able to walk in the future.
The message of the movie is pretty much "Things is be badly for awhile, but eventually they will overcome this"
>>84221826
I'm fucking terrible at cooking, so no.
>>84194378
Well she's a white milennial woman so why don't you take a guess
>>84226163
Tumblr pls.
>>84224832
yes
>>84226226
>Tumblr
how
>>84212317
They would have to register under the accords. No more regular superheroing at all. They'd put all super powered people under direct UN control. That's terrifying to me.
>>84217759
>>84217391
>>84215931
>Considering that she and Evans hooked up constantly during Civil War
How do you know this?
