do Japanese people enjoy graphic novels the same way westerners enjoy their manga
>>84187336
A western comic book fandom exists in japan
No idea about size
>>84187899
>Get over it
did i hurt your feelings?
>>84187336
We could just ask 2chan.
>>84187923
Its 2ch, not 2chan
>>84187923
>We could just ask 2chan.
Gaijin aren't allowed to post on 2chan. It's region blocked.
>>84187899
did you just fucking crawl from /a/ to defend your weaboo shit here?
who the fuck does this?
Someone go into a Japanese Barnes & Noble and see if they have a comic section that's largely untouched.
>>84187971
>>84187918
These are just awful responses. There's so much ignorance in /co/ and this lovely anon gives us some information and you give him grief.
For shame /co/.
>>84187899
But if American comics aren't popular in Japan, why do the Japanese love Marvel so much? From video games, cartoons, and movies, Japan seems to have a hard on for Marvel. Even DC has a Japanese presence thanks to the Bat-manga and other things.
Um, you do know that graphic novels out of manga do exist right?
You can buy graphic novel releases of Vinland Saga and even One Piece in Kinokuniya.
>>84187899
Salty we/a/boo is salty.
>>84188088
They love the movies, dog.
The comics are not popular here.
>>84188088
Because the first-ever live action Spiderman was started in Japan.
Stan Lee basically sold the Spiderman license to Toho and it revolutionized the Sentai industry, leading to a brand recognition for Marvel far stronger than anything else.
Also, Universal Studios Osaka has Marvel attractions since the 90s, so Japan clearly knows Marvel for a LONG time.
>>84188117
I think it's pretty obvious what OP meant when he said graphic novels
>>84188117
Can't speak for the other two, but Gundam Origins is a manga
>>84187899
>Implying most amecomi readers don't read pirated fan-translations online
>>84188181
Which is also rereleased as a graphic novel.
>>84188130
How is he salty you moron? Do you guys use words without knowing what they mean?
>>84188088
>why do the Japanese love Marvel so much
Why do Americans love DC/Marvel movies,cartoons,etc but never touch comics? Same reason.
>>84188211
>Deal with it
>>84187899
Good response until
>Get over it.
Needlessly provocative. Takes away from your whole post.
C-
>>84188211
But people do read the comics. Comics, as a medium of entertainment, have actually grown thanks to the movies.
Also
>Pic related, American comics in Japan.
That Hitman spine looks dope.
>>84188184
probably similar to our manga fanslation scene.
good god what must bendis memes look like in japanese?
>>84188194
Semantics are the least important part of any discussion.
>>84188184
>>Implying most amecomi readers don't read pirated fan-translations online
Wow, you're clueless.
There is no fansubbing or scanlating scene in Japan. Not for American cartoons or comic books.
Americans eat manga and anime up faster than distributers can make them available in the US. The Japanese have 0 interest in our comics or cartoons, not enough to buy legit translations much less take the time to fansub them.
Get real.
>>84188308
I'd totally buy a japanese copy of Black Hole.
>>84188308
And look at how poorly they're selling.
Also, check the prices. One of those Ame-Comi editions probably costs 50,000yen ($50) or more for 60 pages. A 200-page tankoban will run something like 10,000yen ($10) tops.
Ame-comi is high-end trash over there.
>>84187336
>do Japanese people enjoy graphic novels the same way westerners enjoy their mang
Yes. The actual anime/animators really like Mike Mignola (and by default Hellboy). Also despite the language barrier they know quite a bit about characters better left forgotten (ex. onslaught).
>>84188088
Comic fans in japong are a small minority but they exist, its certainly more acceptable then being an otaku
Popularity for certain characters skyrocketed thanks to the movies
Also X-Men and Spidey have a massive following
>>84188211
Well he gave off a decent description and then told OP to deal with like he somehow hates this question
>>84187336
If you think capeshit is popular in Japan you are literally retarded.
>>84188369
You claim to know so much yet you can't even convert currency properly.
>>84188394
but they do love marvel
>>84188394
Where does this concept come from, i doubt people who think comics dont have at least a small following in Japan have ever met or been there
Its there its just small
>>84188457
>but they do love marvel
The Marvel vs. Capcom games were made primarily for the American market. They didn't sell well or even make much of a splash in Japan, mostly because no one there knew who any of the characters were.
Sorta like how Tatsunoko vs Capcom was released as a gesture in the US, but didn't sell because no one here knew who anyone beyond Battle of the Planets guy and Technoman were (at BEST).
>>84187336
Manga is comic books, the same way Bande Desinee are a type of comics in France and Fumetti in Italy, Manga is the equivalent to those but in Japan.
>>84188487
They were made primarily because the nineties X-Men show was popular there
>>84188588
>Manga is comic books
Aaaaaaaaaaand you're WRONG.
Manga is an artform in Japan. Made by singular creators with vision and a full narrative in mind.
Comics are just a product made by an assembly line of businessmen. Please, don't shit on manga by calling them comics.
>>84188605
>They were made primarily because the nineties X-Men show was popular there
Weeb, the 90s X-Men cartoon was broadcast on TV Tokyo and the ratings were so bad it got cancelled after 40-something episodes.
>But muh BRAND NEW TITLE SEQUENCE!
That doesn't mean the show was popular, it just means they wasted their money on a new title sequence. X-Men was never popular in Japan.
>>84188618
Lol fuck off /a/
>>84188690
>Lol fuck off /a/
He isn't wrong, you're just salty.
>>84188026
to be fair though the comic section at most B&N's are untouched.
>>84188714
>Manga is an artform in Japan. Made by singular creators with vision and a full narrative in mind.
>Shonen shit is made by creators with vision and a full narrative in mind, that's why they make shit up on a weekly basis
>Made by singular artists except for all the thousands of series made with an multiple assistants, including stuff like Golgo 13 where the original artist barely writes or draws any more and just has an entire studio of assistants to make it for him
>Manga is an artform, including all those intellectually scintillating light novel adaptations and popular franchise spin-offs set in high schools/the Sengoku period/the Romance of the Three Kingdoms era. These were all made by individual and ambitious creators and not all mandated and published by an assembly line of salarymen
Nothing you said is correct and purely based on a limited and biased set of opinions cleverly phrased in the form of shitposting. Manga is an artform because it is a form of entertainment in a specific medium, the same as comic books. Which by any actual definition manga qualifies as, provided you aren't a fucking weeb or conversely a tasteless capeshitter or indie hipster.
>>84188907
>Which by any actual definition manga qualifies as,
Except comic books are not categorized as manga in Japan, by actual Japanese people.
They're referred to as "ame-komi", not manga.
Comics are not manga.
>>84188618
manga
ˈmaŋɡə/
noun
a style of Japanese comic books and graphic novels, typically aimed at adults as well as children.
>>84189003
You're using an English language definition to define a foreign word that doesn't have a true English language equivalent.
They can use "comic book" to try and describe or define manga, but they are not true equivalents. Because there is no word in the English language that is equivalent to manga. That's why we use the Japanese word in the first place.
It'd be like calling a seiyu a "voice actor".
>>84187336
They don't enjoy their own manga.
>>84189056
The big doujinshi convention held twice annually in Tokyo is called Comiket, which is short for "Comic Market".
QED
>>84187899
They can't be that expensive if Nobuhiro Watsuki could afford them during his time on Kenshin when he had a Gambit lookalike show up in it and once came buckets over how awesome that one Spawn figurine he found was.
>>84188315
>good god what must bendis memes look like in japanese?
SASUGA BENDISU!
>>84188194
you do know right, graphic novel in japan is still manga in tankobon or shinsoban or any other formats? Your omnibus is equal to aizoban there and tankobon is basically the same as your tpb. Japs do not use fancy word like 'graphic novels', they literally called their tankobon as 'comics'.
>>84187336
Well, Bat-Manga is good.
>>84188654
>So bad
>40 Episodes
That's more than some of their own serials. [spoilers] No matter the language, that much into it can be grating. [/spoiler]
>>84187899
>Get over it.
>>84188949
They're referred to as "ame-komi", not manga.
Or comics. Or comic books. Or American Manga. Or Iigirisu Comikuu.
You are typing English on an American image board made by a weeb. Manga are comic books. If you were Japanese you'd call comics books manga, but you're not Japaneseand you never will be. You can't even fucking speak the language and you presume to play semantics with me? The Pedantic King?
>>84188394
Well Fate series is japans capeshit so i guess they like it.
>>84189533
You can't even green text properly and you think you can school someone?
Hilarious. Manga is a very specific subgenre of the sequential art form, wholly distinct from the Western idea of "comic books".
You don't know what you're talking about.
>>84189564
Makes sense. All their sit takes place in the Nasuverse after all.
Though isn't My Hero Academia and Tiger & Bunny their literal capeshit?
>>84188690
Even /a/ doesnt believe in this shit.
>>84188308
>they have hitman
Why the fuck I can't find it in Italy. Sweet pizza
>>84188618
>>84188714
Have you considered getting some actual Comics other than cape which isnt itself bad and is the equivalent of shonen and on worse cases Moe which itself slowly ruined anime and manga
Heck ops pic has some good ones, you'll find they arent that different
>>84189572
So I take it you're not going to address this? >>84189140
>>84189648
>moe
>ruined anything
No that is just hasnt really ruined anything other than it can have too much in anime but even by that not every moe show sells like K-on or Lucky Star.
>>84188949
This whole thread is cancer but saying manga is not a type of comic is just retarded, so anime is not a cartoon? Is japaneese food not food are those anime girl simulators not videogames?
Why /co/ is always arguing about anime vs west cartoons or manga vs comics? /a/ doesnt do this but you guys really like to fight about it.
>>84188618
Under that definition Hellboy is a Manga rather than a comic book, which blatantly isnt the case.
I think there are enough cultural and production differences to refer to Manga as separate in passing, but they are a kind of Comic Book.
>>84189744
I have actually thinking lately are VNs video games? Because some say they are but some say they are not so what it is?
>>84189774
1.) they have a chip on their shoulder about it.
ans 2.) a lot of them judge anime and manga at face value. hence why we get a lot of "all anime looks the same" and "anime is nothing but moe shit".
>>84189774
Considering overlap threads such as Toonami how often do you think /co/ comes to /a/ compared to /a/ to /co/?
>>84189774
Because /a/ actually has mods that shut down shit threads.
>>84189805
Depends on how much interactibility and challenge you think a 'Game' has to have.
>>84188315
>>84189213
Who do you think is the KUBOOOOOOO of the westaboo fandom in japan?
>>84189056
>It'd be like calling a seiyu a "voice actor".
The manga vs comics thing is stupid, but this is a legit thing.
Seiyu are highly trained like opera singers and many have to work their way up through the idol circuits before they can even have a chance to become a seiyu.
American voice actors are usually people who weren't handsome or funny enough to be screen actors so they rebounded into the VA ghetto. Most Latin and Euro VAs are even worse; literally just whoever the studio could find off the street to shit out lines.
Seiyu treat it like an art, for voice actors it's just a paycheck.
>>84189774
>he doesn't think /a/ does the same thing
>>84188117
That's a new bullshit definition of graphic novel.
Someone thinks graphic novel just means hardcover.
In this thread's context, graphic novel = trade paperback = tankōbon = a volume of manga or comics.
>>84189806
>"all anime looks the same"
At least it doesn't have the inconsistent art problem the cape comics have. What with no changing artists and all.
>>84189876
>for voice actors it's just a paycheck.
Listening to Kevin Conroy's breakdown of the Bruce persona and any time Andrea Romano shares observation of the nuance of character conveyed through their tone, dialogue and pacing I very much doubt that.
It might be the modern majority approach due to business influence causing popularity of a name to exceed the quality of work, but it's by no means what voice acting is by default because of that.
>>84189930
"If you are not Japanese, you do not write or draw manga."
There. That should make it easier to understand for people.
>>84189833
People on /co/ just talk about anime and manga they like on /co/
People on /a/ come here to shit post about how western shit is inferior
>>84189870
Dunno. Who is the western equivalent of Toriyama?
>>84189876
Dunno. American voice actors have become increasingly popular in the past years.
And I certainly wouldn't call all of them fuck ugly either. Yuri Lowenthal or Crispin Freeman are handsome dudes.
I remember a friend living in Tokyo said he knew a place to buy American comics. I think he meant imported ones in English. He said they unfortunately had moved further away from where he lived.
>>84187336
Another day, another /a/ vs /co/ thread.
Just another day in a war without end.
>>84188174
>Stan Lee basically sold the Spiderman license to Toho and it revolutionized the Sentai industry
Sentai shows had been made long before Spiderman, and I've never heard of Spiderman being popular or influential. It's always stuff like Kamen Rider instead.
>>84188618
Shitposting aside, they can be considered two different things even if they're technically the same medium (like anime and Western animation).
>>84189140
Semantic argument.
>>84189648
I don't think you understand what moe is.
>>84188088
>From video games, cartoons, and movies, Japan seems to have a hard on for Marvel
You just answered your own question.
Japan consumes Marvel content mostly from side stuff, like the many extremely popular Capcom games, to the cartoons that were partly animated in Japan and the
>>84188618
Seriously why are there so many /a/ leaks recently. Guess we have to talk more about live action capeshit.
>>84189876
This is wrong, not only that american VA's blow japanese ones out of the water
>>84188308
Now I wanna learn Japanese just so I can buy these expensive imports and read them in the language they weren't originally written in.
>>84188337
Why though?
>>84190257
Why what?
Hes wrong btw, its just not a big community
>>84188618
If this isn't bait, it'll do till bait gets here.
>>84190234
>american VA's blow japanese ones out of the water
Japanese actors have to play a much wider variety of roles, they get more experience because of the short length and high number of shows and the high number of characters, they usually attend acting school for years, they can't keep doing the same role for years and years, the competition is crazy, and being able to sing is a job requirement.
How do British people shower?
>>84190362
They have a bidet installed in the ceiling.
>>84190107
Supaida-man had one of the first mechs IIRC and that the Super Sentai shows that came after started using them too. But then again I mostly watch Kamen Rider and very little of that so I might be wrong.
>>84189882
Well as guy who has been on /a/ since 2004 it is really rare to have these kinda threads and most of the /a/ doesnt think west stuff is inferior to anime or manga.
>>84187899
>Get over it.
>>84190460
Mecha had been done before and Gundam came out the following year and made mecha even more popular.
>>84189972
But /co/ just talks about entry level stuff or what has been on toonami and if isnt something like those two then it is shit.
>>84190009
True but it is still not big as in japan.
>>84190126
I dont really think it is /a/ who is doing this but more like that one guy who thinks anything japan is perfect.
>>84190517
I meant in tokusatsu. And didn't the original Gundam bomb super hard at first?
>>84190234
Eh i dont really agree with that one. I like alot japanese VA more than american ones.
>>84188174
>Stan Lee basically sold the Spiderman license to Toho and it revolutionized the Sentai industry
No.
>>84190570
The sponsoring toy company fucked off because of creative differences and low toy sales and the series ended prematurely. I don't think it bombed but it wasn't that popular at first.
>>84190257
>Why though?
Because they have no interest in American cartoons and comics?
Is that so hard for your ego to absorb?
>>84190701
>Is that so hard for your ego to absorb?
This nigga's so mad that he's not Japanese.
>>84190757
This>>84190350
Explains why you're wrong.
>>84187899
I'm assuming this is copy pasta
That said many west comics over there are printed in black and white just like what the UK does with some of our comics. Somtimes some pages get splashes of colored panels for one reason or another
However thanks to digital distribution increasing interest has risen greatly in forign markets. Many "nitch" publishers like IDW are well received there and some issues have sold better there then in the west (but let's be blunt that's not a hard thing to do)
>>84190701
Keep attacking random posters. All it does is show that you don't have any answers to their harmless questions and that you're the one with a fragile ego.
>>84190701
I was just wondering why when they seem to hoover up everything else Western.
did we trigger some Weeb teenager or is this copy pasta of long ago
>>84190665
I guess that explains why Gunpla gets pushed so goddamn hard.
>OP Makes genuine inquiry about cultural exchange
> /co/ goes ahead and shits itself and waves their collective cock around
>>84190923
It's just the Japanofiles from /a/ that are shitting up the thread.
The "GLORIOUS NIPPON" types that can't accept that maybe, just maybe, some inferior gaijin products are enjoyed in Japan.
>>84188117
>he calls collected volumes of individual chapters/issues "graphic novels" instead of TPBs
Found the person born after 2000.
>>84190873
I don't think American media is actually popular there outside of movies. Comic books aren't even popular in America.
>>84187336
I don't think they like it to the extend westerners like manga but I know there are westaboos.
You can find most of them on pixiv and twitter and some of them on tumblr.
I mean for fucks sake there is a Japanese grouo that cosplays as Section 8 characters (pic related) so there are fans for everything.
>>84188337
Yes there is nigga, last air bender, korra, Steven universe have Japanese fan translated shit that's downloaded constantly. Currently voltron and how to train your dragon series are the top western cartoon shows downloaded in jap.
>>84191065
There's also the doujin artist who does a lot of Marvel and DC stuff. Love his stuff.
I think in general western comics are less popular in Japan because there market is so big. A lot of readers are just satisfied with what they have. They aren't reading American stuff out of spite, just out of indifference. The manga industry here is big because of the combination of manga having so much content as well as 90's anime actually having a pretty substantial cultural impact on the American youth.
>>84191214
This is a good sensible post.
>>84190968
For starters thats not me thats him im me
Second, imo Japanese voice acting twnda to just be tones in voice rather then making a entirely new voice to suit a character, this could just be because i dont speak jap but still i prefer how the west handles voices
Also its ridiculous to think that american VA's do this for money or lack of fame, or is some kind of stingey community of greedy jewsheck SU's range of actors were chossen by singing talent
>>84191280
Lol wrong person
Ment for>>84190350
>>84188066
>lovely anon
It's your personal fuckboy or something like that?
>>84190968
But /a/ hates japs and they know that some japanese are westaboos. It shows even with Trigger anime studio.
>>84191214
>tfw we used to have this sort of thing in the UK
Anthology comics in the '70s were so omnipresent in the UK that young men and women had their own genre specific comics for each gender.
>>84190757
aren't we all?
>>84187940
isn't 2ch owned by gaijin now?
>>84191344
Lol wrong person again
Ment for>>84190805
>>84189622
>Italy
found your problem
>>84191375
I like anime/manga and i watch it alot too but i dont think i want to be japanese. But i wish i could be 2D one because it seems like it is more easier to be in japanese high school in anime than real japanese high school.
>>84188618
>duhhhh big 2 cape comics are they only western comics.
>>84190350
Well except some elite seiyuu that are allowed to voice only one character because they basically are the character. Like that old lady voicing Son Goku and his kids. Her dying words will be Kame-hame-ha if she gets her way.
>>84191280
Anime is usually at least semi-realistic and they aren't trying to create cartoon characters like Donald Duck and Goofy, so it makes sense that the voice acting is more or less down to earth. There's also an enormous number of characters, and for certain character types certain voices just make sense or are necessary.
>SU's range of actors were chossen by singing talent
In the anime industry, if you are a voice actress and getting more than bit parts, you are going to be singing often (voice actors too, but not as often). Opening, ending, insert and character songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRkTT54L83o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMFxNo_SEK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_14QMXLadM
>>84191747
Kana Hanazawa and Miyuki Sawashiro are elite and they have voiced many different kinds of characters.
>>84191356
>Trigger
Looking forward to Japanese Lesbian Harry Potter myself
>>84191794
I know it was just my favorite example because she herself said that she will voice Goku until she croaks.
>>84189961
It's a bit more complicated than that as Shin Angyo Onshi is considered a manga even though its writer and artist are South Koreans and the story take place in medieval Korea.
Why is it considered a Manga? Because it was prepublished then published first in Japan by Shougakukan, a japanese publisher.
Even though the guys behind it are South Koreans, it was made for a Japanese audience, in the Japanese standard format for comic, supervised by a Japanese editor and published first by a Japanese publisher.
![2011+voyagedhermes_moebius_01+%25281%2529[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/PxnaO4y.jpg "2011+voyagedhermes_moebius_01+%25281%2529[1].jpg")
>>84188374
Moebius also had a big following there.
But France is a bit of a special case, they always had an important cooperation in cartoons (even naming anime after the french word "dessin animé") and getting hype for some of the wierdest french shit.
>>84188618
>made by singular creators with vision and a full narrative in mind
>not a product made by an assembly line of businessmen
Nigga, even on /co/ most people know how the Jump works, that's not even bait at this point.
>>84189622
>can't find hitman in Italy
Sweet irony
>>84191805
I do too but i hope it will look atleast decent
>>84191853
Shes not a very good choice though
>>84187336
>Swampy going full pleb
>>84188618
Autism: the Post
>>84189961
So I guess everything drawn by Gurihiru, including Power Pack and The Last Airbender, is manga?
What about "La nouvelle manga"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_nouvelle_manga
Comic schools and styles don't fit into neat little boxes, anon.
>>84188618
It's the same medium dipshit, just a different cultural style, foreign films are still films, and anime and cartoons are both animation.
It's all the same shit, there's nothing Manga can do that Comics can't.
There maybe things it has done that comics haven't doesn't mean they are different mediums.
>>84192548
Manga has different character design, different visual language, different panel layouts, different genres, different stories, different archetypes, different readership, different authors (a lot of women), different distribution, different scale, different fan culture...
Manga and comic books are still more similar to each other than anime and Western animation are (saying that they're both animation isn't actually saying anything at all).
>>84189622
>Why the fuck I can't find it in Italy. Sweet pizza
Is "sweet pizza" an actual Italian saying? If not, it should be.
>>84192736
>Manga has different character design, different visual language, different panel layouts, different genres, different stories, different archetypes, different readership, different authors (a lot of women), different distribution, different scale, different fan culture...
And it's still the same medium. You could say the same thing about action movies and horror movies, in the end they are still movies.
>>84192736
Yeah, because manga, anime, western comics or western cartoons are completely homogenous.
No difference at all between Nausicaa and Kiss my Ass, The Eternaut and Malfada, or Gandahar and Space Goofs.
>>84192881
Nobody said it isn't the same medium, but saying it's the same medium isn't saying anything at all. They're still very different.
The difference between an action and a horror movie is not equivalent to the difference between manga and comics or anime and cartoons. They're just different story genres.
>>84192935
I didn't say they're homogenous. What are you talking about?
>>84192736
Senpai go read some comic books, non-cape prefferibly so people can stop assuming all comics are super-heroes
They arent that different, i often wondered how certain graphic novels lile y the last man would be more popular if they were made by soem manga artist
>>84192994
I didn't say anything about superheroes.
>They arent that different
I just explained how they are.
>>84192736
That doesn't refute his point though. At their most basic definition they are the same thing. All genres of music are still music even if they sound nothing alike. There are thousands of different meals out there, but they are all food. Manga has certain tendencies and trends that are brought about by shared cultural aspects that to make them distinct, but they all still qualify as the medium that we refer to as comics. Which is the form of expression though the combination of written word and drawn images.
>>84193096
I didn't say that they aren't the same thing on a basic level. I didn't say they aren't both comic books.
This is not rocket science and I don't know why people keep having problems understanding it.
>>84193028
If thats what you think you havent read many comic books, heck comics vary in way more art styles then most manga which are known for basically being based off Osamu's which itself is based off Walts
Its why when im at the manga section i tend to cling onto things with beautifully drawn covers that tell weebyer art styles to fuck off
>>84187940
Is that all?
>>84192736
>they are different things heres why
>lists things tons of comics have done
>>84190107
>Sentai shows had been made long before Spiderman
Yes, two of them. Goranger and JAKQ. And by long before, more like... the previous year.
>>84190630
That is a fundamental truth.
Toei's experience with Spider-Man gave them the know-how to be able to use mechs in a more sensible way. They accidentally blew a lot of their budget on Leopardon in Spider-Man, so they then knew how to make mech sequences more than just stock footage.
America and Japan have always influenced each other.
Early manga styles were based off of Disney characters, and newer American cartoons have taken themes and tropes from anime.
We made ATLA, they made Panty and Stocking.
I used to be self-conscious about putting Japanese media themes and designs in my art and writing, but it really doesn't matter.
Not to mention the most famous American creators are weeaboos. George Lucas? Weeb. Frank Miller? Weeb. Quentin Tarantino? The Wachowskis? All weebs.
I can't think of a comic or cartoon today that has absolutely zero influence from Japanese media.
>>84192961
>What are you talking about?
You can find a comic and a manga that have more in common than two works coming from the same country.
Saying that they are vastly different in general doesn't say much, and can lead to the false impression that they are limited to certain types of genres, panel layouts, audiences,...
Of course they aren't the same and local culture plays an important part, but a comics identity usually depends on the authors rather than the country they originate from. Both sides have their wee/west/ouiaboos imitating stuff from the other side of the ocean.
We shouln't reduce comics or cartoons to the country they're made in .
>>84188088
Marvel has a lot more exposure thanks to the movies and videogames. DC not so much except Batman.
I just want a board about just Comics.
Manga is included in that, because manga are comics.
Fight me.
>>84193162
>If thats what you think you havent read many comic books
Can you refute anything I said in: >>84192736
>heck comics vary in way more art styles then most manga which are known for basically being based off Osamu's which itself is based off Walts
I didn't say whether they do or don't, I said manga has a different character design style.
Even if we could trace manga character design back solely to Tezuka, it doesn't mean anything since the fact remains that there's a lot of variance in manga character design and the style he used in Astro Boy etc. I don't think I've seen anywhere else. Something like Aim for the Ace! (1973) looks clearly very different from Astro Boy.
And why are you even bringing this up?
>i tend to cling onto things with beautifully drawn covers that tell weebyer art styles to fuck off
Weeb = weeaboo = wapanese = wannabe Japanese. Manga cannot be weeb.
>>84193186
Ok, then refute what I said.
>>84193190
If we're talking about the 1978 show, that was late in the game. Kamen Rider had already come out in 1971, and that wasn't the first either.
>>84193260
It's a one way street though, anon.
Very little of our cartoons and comics make it to Japan, and they import next to none of it due to a total lack of interest.
So practically none of their media is influenced by our styles, save for the media they specifically produce to try and sell to westerners (Panty and Stocking).
We take all our design cues and steal all our ideas from anime and manga, but they don't need anything from us.
>>84193266
>You can find a comic and a manga that have more in common than two works coming from the same country.
Maybe you can. But that's irrelevant. We're not talking about outliers, we're talking about the broad, fundamental differences between comics and manga.
>We shouln't reduce comics or cartoons to the country they're made in
Our opinions have nothing to do with it. It is what it is.
Why are so many people threatened by the idea that manga and comics are different and anime and cartoons are different?
>>84193303
>If we're talking about the 1978 show, that was late in the game. Kamen Rider had already come out in 1971, and that wasn't the first either.
Yes...? They were discussing influences on Sentai, of which Spider-Man was a massive part.
Don't tell me you're one of those people that thinks "Sentai" means tokusatsu.
>>84193303
>Manga has different character design
So do comics
>different visual language
I dont really know what that means
>different panel layouts
So have comics
>different genres
This doesnt make sense
>different stories
Makes no sense again
>different archetypes
Yeah, bur so do comics and we stole some of theirs
>different readership
Like fans?
I think fans dig even as deep as genres
>different authors (a lot of women)
So do fucking comics?
>different distribution
So do KOMIKS
>different scale, different fan culture...
:0
Whoa comics do that too
>>84193140
Because only an idiot can't appreciate both. In every distinct thing that makes comics enjoyable as a medium they are the same. All other details are superfluous. There is nothing wrong with appreciating one over the other, but if you actually enjoy reading comics then the comics country of origin or number of people working on creating it should not be the basis of how you judge is quality.
>>84193388
Spiderman didn't invent sentai shows either.
>>84193416
>So do comics
So you agree with me that comics and manga have different character design.
>I dont really know what that means
For example all the visual devices used in comedy manga, facial expressions, eyes, and probably representation of movement too.
>So have comics
So you again agree with me.
>This doesnt make sense
>Makes no sense again
What about it doesn't make sense? Manga has its own genres and stories that comics don't.
>Yeah, bur so do comics and we stole some of theirs
Once again you agree.
>Like fans?
Manga is ubiquitous in Japan. Almost everyone reads it. It's made (specifically) for girls, boys, women, men and various niche audiences (e.g. Boys' Love and yuri).
>So do fucking comics?
Pretty sure comics don't have anywhere near as many female authors as manga.
>So do KOMIKS
>Whoa comics do that too
Once again you agree.
>>84193423
>Because only an idiot can't appreciate both.
That's not what this is about.
>All other details are superfluous.
There's nothing superfluous about what I listed, and I didn't even mention that, being Japanese, manga is linguistically and culturally different and features things specific to Japanese society.
>>84193569
>so you agree
Do you somehow think because i agree one or 2 bullet points that you are right?
There is a obvius line, but both can be whatever they want
>>84193606
You agree with many of the things I said, and about the others you're wrong. So yes I do think I'm right.
>>84193162
But i like a lot manga art even if it is basic.
>>84193569
>Spiderman didn't invent sentai shows either.
Alright, bait detected. Nobody has reading comprehension that bad past the age of 18.
>>84193669
Spiderman came out in 1978. Himitsu Sentai Gorenger came out in 1975. And I'm not sure what connection there's even supposed to be between the two.
>>84193635
Well me too, i like the art in Naruto for one thing
But im just saying most really catch my eye on the art style covers show
>>84193352
Because that attracts retards that go "all western comic is capeshit, muh manga with author vision is superior" like in this very thread.
Also, every fucking time I hear someone saying "this isn't a comic, there isn't any superhero in it" about an american book.
By always putting works in neat little boxes you forget to look at the work for itself, and miss productions that doesn't fit in the boxes.
Examples:
Blacksad. Two spanish authors that spent most of their careers at Disney, and the comic itself has a french publisher.
Tokyo est mon Jardin. Franco-Japanese collaboration (both writing and drawing) set in Japan. French publisher.
Good luck putting an etiquette on those based only on country.
Westerners need manga a lot more than the Japanese need comics.
>>84193762
>Because that attracts retards that go "all western comic is capeshit, muh manga with author vision is superior" like in this very thread.
Doesn't matter. It's no reason to claim the differences don't exist.
>Good luck putting an etiquette on those based only on country.
A few outliers don't mean anything.
>>84193762
What if i like both but i still perfer manga over comics? Is it wrong?
>>84193836
Not him but no, thats personal preference
Hating one or ignoring one for ignorant reasons tho its just ignent
>>84187336
>graphic novels
>>84193800
I never claimed that the differences don't exist, merely that countries aren't everything that defines a comic. Righ there >>84193266 "local culture plays an important part"
>A few outliers don't mean anything
The very mindset I fight against, that still makes most people consider animation to be kiddy stuff. I suspect you've decided that comics/manga/BDs/fumettis encompass only a certain type of work, and nothing will make you bulge.
I could literally (and I mean it) give you a thousand western comics/cartoons that use manga/anime codes and aesthetics heavily (not vice versa, though, because I'm less knowledgable in mangas).
There are more common elements between a manga and a comic from 2016 than there are between a comic from 2016 and one from 1940.
Don't say that the categories are manga and western comics the end, with a clear frontier between the two. It's simply not true.
>>84193836
Nope. You could even hate comics and it wouldn't be wrong, as long as you have a reason besides "Eww, america..."
>>84194524
Again, outliers don't mean anything. There are many broad differences between comics and manga, and not just ones pertaining to what they look like and what the stories are about.
>There are more common elements between a manga and a comic from 2016 than there are between a comic from 2016 and one from 1940.
Because comics have been influenced by manga, which just proves my point. If they had been the same all along then that wouldn't have happened.
>Don't say that the categories are manga and western comics the end, with a clear frontier between the two. It's simply not true.
It simply is true for reasons already stated.
>>84188618
saving this copy pasta
>>84188174
The first ever live action spider man was the one on sci-fi from the mid seventies you dolt
>>84193569
just for the sake of keeping this train going into the inevitable chasm what genres does manga have that comics don't?
>>84194816
Idol, harem, yuri, BL, romance, lolicon, shotacon, historical, mahou shoujo and sports are some likely ones. And note that I am talking about established and active genres, and not just there being a few works that happen to fit them. And before you start listing equivalencies also consider if they exist as a result of manga.
>>84195025
>Idol, harem, yuri, BL, romance, lolicon, shotacon, historical, mahou shoujo and sports
>Implying manga wouldn't be better off with out 70% of that shit.
>>84195133
Your opinion on the matter is not relevant.
>>84187336
ITT: weeaboos in denial
>>84195536
Of what?
>>84187336
I'm currently reading Sandman and loving every bit of it. I really love this picture, it's neat.
>>84187336
>Dat Death tho
No wonder Thanos wants to hit that so bad, yum.
>>84195025
Thank Christ American comics don't have that shit.
Do japan comics have anything like a Vertigo dark fantasy genre? A high energy Jack Kirby space adventure genre? A Grant Morrison meta-head trip like Invisibles or Nameless genre?
Face it anon. In terms of high end quality western comics take a giant shit all over manga. Manga might have the better average quality, but the tip of the mountain lies with western comics. I haven't even name anything out of the cape genre. You take stuff like Incal and Metabarons and Manga is proper fucked and shown to be the inferior artform.
>>84193293
This is how it would be in a perfect world without autistic fucktards. I'd love for a comics+manga board.
>>84196128
I wasn't listing all the genres that manga has, I was listing genres that don't exist or most likely don't exist in comics. Manga covers about every genre and topic you could think of.
>You take stuff like Incal and Metabarons and Manga is proper fucked and shown to be the inferior artform.
This coming from someone who is so ignorant of manga he thinks the genres I listed are all manga has.
>>84193762
Blacksad is a french comic tho, even frenchies would tell you that. It's not a good example, Ken Games is the same thing, it's still a french comic tho.
Please don't be autistic about this.
what do the japanese make of american comics art?
>>84196214
>I'd love for a comics+manga board.
This. I don't come here for the cartoon discussion anyway. I think that's true for a lot of people.
>>84196222
>I wasn't listing all the genres
Never said you did. But you probably listed the money makers. Which is really pathetic.
>Covers every genre and topic you could think of
Then show me the the equivalent of a Japanese Vertigo comic.
Manga hardly tackles all genres except in the broadest sense.
>Coming from someone who is so ignorant of manga he thinks the genres I listed are all manga has
I never said that.
What I am saying is that the manga industry is no more noble or artistic than the western scene. They have their big selling culturally inferior works, the shonen and moe and magical girl shit and sports. Western comics have capeshit. It's all the equivalent of soap operas or video games.
Yes, Japan has some works with artistic integrity. So does America. But they're a small fraction of the total output, and when you compare the best of the best western comics destroy Japan.
It's a cultural thing. The Japanese are not a creative race. They're innovative and possess good business sense. It's why they make the most comics and the most money. But they aren't creative.
>>84196352
Again: I was listing genres that don't exist or most likely don't exist in comics. The list has nothing to do with what makes money and what doesn't.
The best selling manga, according to Wikipedia, are as follows:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_manga
>Then show me the the equivalent of a Japanese Vertigo comic.
Well you said something about dark fantasy, so the answer is Berserk.
>Manga hardly tackles all genres except in the broadest sense.
I'm sorry if American comics aren't that broad, but it's not manga's fault.
>They have their big selling culturally inferior works, the shonen and moe and magical girl shit and sports.
Something isn't "culturally inferior" just because it's some of those things.
>Western comics have capeshit.
Not equivalent to what you just listed.
>when you compare the best of the best western comics destroy Japan
You're in no position to say that.
>The Japanese are not a creative race.
Ahahahahahahahaha. Ahahahahahohohohoahaohaohahaha. Oh my god. Are you retarded? Like actually diagnosed retarded?
>>84196128
>>84196352
Most manga isn't scanned or translated, it's kinda unfair to compare them unless you know Japanese. Plus bringing up french comics is also unfair, you can't pit a bunch of countries(western) vs japan. Thats unfair.
Our market is much smaller than theirs, it's much easier to find some high tier stuff in our market because it's so obvious. You can only name drop Incal and Metabarons but imagine all the shit that isn't translated and never will be translated that's just as crazy as them.It's unfair to compare them based on the trickle of content we get from both countries.
You're a baka.
>>84196128
>>84196222
Japan and America/france/everywhere else have some good and bad shit, and even then the bad shit is liker a lot so idk lol
No one wins, enjoy the good stuff enjoy capeshit and shonenD-dont enjoy moe heh
>>84196525
>Name me something like Sandman or Lucifer
>Names fucking Berserk
So the answer is no, Japan doesn't have anything like Vertigo.
>Shonen and Magical girl aren't inferior
Please tell me how DEEP Evangelion and that one dark magical girl show autistics like are. PLEASE.
>Thinks Japan is creative
Their cultural roots are being islander savages that copied the superior achievements of China.
They are not creative unless you think AM I KAWAI UGU is creative.
>>84196574
I have dark horse translations of Astro Boy snuggled next to Stan and Jack's Fantastic Four run.
I don't see why manga and comics can't be friends.
>>84196653
>So the answer is no, Japan doesn't have anything like Vertigo.
stuff like golgo 13 or older men's magazines might have stuff like that.crying freeman and sanctuary might be what you're looking for. but those are in a 100 bullets vertigo vein.
>>84196653
You said dark fantasy. Berserk is dark fantasy.
>Please tell me how DEEP Evangelion and that one dark magical girl show autistics like are. PLEASE.
Shounen is a target demographic, not a genre. Mahou shoujo is a genre, and as a genre it can include all kinds of works.
What exactly are you expecting me to tell you about Evangelion and Madoka? You don't even know enough about the latter to remember its name.
>Thinks Japan is creative
They are, and you're a complete fucking retard for claiming otherwise.
>Their cultural roots are being islander savages that copied the superior achievements of China.
Yes, they were influenced by Chinese culture. Many, many, many centuries ago. Then again Europe has been a hodpodge of different criss-crossing cultures, and America, Canada and Australia are just European colonies. I don't know where you think you're going with this line of argumentation but you should maybe reconsider it.
>>84187336
American comics are more niche than ero guro there
>>84191375
Kek, no. Especially not because some shitty cartoon that has cute girls in it.
>>84190350
Oh totally agree. I'm quite a fan of the variety of roles. Like.
>Deep voice for warrior
>Wise old man
>Crazy old man
>Cute kawaii girl
>Evil girl
>Awkward main.
>Evil man with evil voice
>Evil man(?) with high pitched voice.
>Goofy sidekick.
>>84197717
So basically your complaint is that the hundreds of thousands of characters in anime don't all sound completely unique, and that they should all sound completely unique because being unique for uniqueness' sake is really important and stuff.
If you have, say, a maid character who is characterized as cool and professional, what should she sound like? It's obvious that she shouldn't sound like a genki school girl or something.
Many of your categories are vague and there's no single type of performance for them.
ITT: People who have never read manga OR comics, but continue to fling shit at one other under the pretense that they have.
>>84187940
I can post there. I live in Japan, but they'd out me as a foreigner fast with my language level.
>>84197928
My point is that as a whole the voice actors/actresses are stale and can hardly be told apart from anime to anime. It's always the same bland shit. You can literally just look at the character and tell what kind of exact voice they will end up having.
>>84188088
>why do the Japanese love Marvel so much?
Disney. Japan loves Disney to extreme levels. Everything Disney.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaiman_Award
Here you go folks. Here are western comics that have won the Foreign Comics Awards in Japan.
>>84187336
No, just a very small few. Mostly because Japs are extremely xenophic and would probably just push anything not from Japan to the side since it would be viewed as inferior. China on the other hand? China fucking loves our capeshit to no end. So if any place in the East is doing that it's them.
>>84198119
/thread. We can go home now guys, anon did it.
>>84198056
I can recognize actresses by their voices, and obviously there will be actresses who sound similar and characters who sound similar. There are so many shows and so many charaters and certain characters will have certain voices because that's what makes sense for them.
You are complaining because anime doesn't live up to some arbitrary, fetishistic standard of pointless originality.
>>84198123
>le japan is xenophobic le meme
Disney movies are very popular in Japan. They even have a Disneyland.
>>84188337
>the Japanese have 0 interest in our comics or cartoons
Don't talk out of your ass. I don't know how well American comics do in Japan, but I do know that they like American animation.
>>84198119
>Japan likes Shazam, Transformers and Sweden faux-manga
Huh. Shazam is probably the most surprising.
>>84198232
Not really. "Little boy turns into magical badass" just screams Japanese aesthetics.
>>84198182
>>le japan is xenophobic le meme
>Meme
Anon, they are. You have to be fucking high if you think they aren't, they're pretty open about it. Can't say I blame them though, I mean, look at all the people who move there solely because of their cartoons and think they're experts on the culture. Could you imagine if someone did something like that here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBfWKmRFTjM
>>84198296
>Anon, they are.
Well they must be since people on the Internet said so, and when have they ever been wrong?
>>84198182
>>le japan is xenophobic le meme
Sure, weeb. It's a "meme"...
https://youtu.be/5uC4AUyju7k
>>84198182
>You're mad because they don't try to have originality.
That's something they should strive for.
>>84198326
I fucking knew even without clicking on embed what video it would be. This one single video from years ago is the one people always turn to when they need to "prove" that Japan is xenophobic. You people are braindead.
>>84198356
They already do, they just don't fetishize it like Westerners do.
>>84198319
Please move to Japan. Then come back and make a post about your experiences.
>>84189596
There's also one punch man.
>>84198425
>I fucking knew even without clicking on embed what video it would be. This one single video from years ago is the one people always turn to when they need to "prove" that Japan is xenophobic
Perhaps because it proves that they're xenophobic...?
>>84198438
There already are and have been foreigners living in Japan. Some of them have had bad experiences, others haven't. Some of those bad experiences have been their fault or wrongly interpreted, others haven't.
>>84198461
Yes, this single event held by a small group of ultra-nationalists proves that all of Japan is xenophobic. Well done.
>>84198425
They're as original as current Marvel. If you don't know what I'm refering to, then maybe you should go back to your /a/ hidey hole and stop talking about shit you know nothing about.
>>84198493
>>le japan is flawless utopia can do no wrong le meme
Sigh.
>>84198513
Anime is not a single company. It's many different artists, publishers, producers and studios acting independently from each other to make shows in many different genres about many different topics in many different styles for many different audiences.
>If you don't know what I'm refering to, then maybe you should go back to your /a/ hidey hole and stop talking about shit you know nothing about.
But you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. And I'm not even from /a/.
>>84198537
Where did I say or imply anything like that?
>>84198493
>Things weebs believe.
I'm willing to put money on the fact that everything you know about the country is from either animes or roseta stone.
>>84198602
I'm not a weeb.
>I'm willing to put money on the fact that everything you know about the country is from either animes or roseta stone.
Ironic coming from someone whose knowledge of the country is limited to that one video.
>>84198576
>Anime is not a single company. It's many different artists, publishers, producers and studios acting independently
That's exactly what I'm talking about though. Their multiple companies reusing the same exact shit as the other ones. At least when Marvel or DC does it they're open about it. And even then they have the excuse of continuing stories from World War 2. When other companies do it they're either paradising or are trying to make a statement on it.
>>84187336
Western graphic novels/comics are too expensive for japs.
Japs buy mangas because are the cheapest books that they can buy.
>>84198637
>Ironic coming from someone whose knowledge of the country is limited to that one video.
Or maybe, just maybe, I grew up in a family that traveled a shit ton since my dad was a private jet salesman. Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I have a sibling in the navy who's been stationed there for the past few years and has had very /very/ similar experiences.
>>84198661
Oh no, an industry that produces somewhere between 50 and 70 shows every three months has recurring elements in said shows. Surely this is unprecedented, and American TV and British TV for example do not have many police procedurals, forensic dramas, legal dramas, medical dramas, relationship dramas, sitcoms, reality TV shows, and so on. Why are the Japanese so unoriginal? How is this allowed?
Anyway, you have no idea what you're talking about and obviously don't even watch anime.
>>84198716
Maybe other people have travelled too, and maybe many those people have had different experiences than you. Maybe the world isn't all about you.
>>84198716
>I have a sibling in the navy who's been stationed there for the past few years
If he's US military then he's the white pig they're telling to go home.
I can't blame them for it. US military are fucking thugs when on leave in Japan. And they never see Japanese courts for any of the crimes they commit, because MPs always whisk them away to freedom and unaccountability whenever they're arrested.
US soldiers are pure trash and they're the reason the Japanese fuckin hate most westerners since they're the gaijin they have to deal with most frequently.
>>84187336
Yes there is a niche westaboo audience that likes Marvel, DC, superhero movies.
But historically these things have tended to do poorly for the mainstream Japanese audience. Why did superheroes never really catch on? Some had guessed that mahou shoujo and sentai shows filled that niche there and superheroes were not needed from the west though again some people and esp. manga and anime creators there are still big fans of them. Just a more minority thing.
What Western things do they love there? Disney movies. Disney, Disney, Disney in general. Look for Japanese fans of Frozen (especially), Zootopia, Gravity Falls, very easy to find.
Capeshit? The audience there exists. But it is more niche by far.
>>84198761
>Maybe other people have traveled too
I'm also willing to put money on the fact that you have yet to meet one of these people. At least, not in real life.
>>84198700
the "," functions like a decimal point, not a extension of positive places
so basically a penny is around 1 yen
Shounen Jump costs about $2.50, and if they read one of the jump off shoots or any other magazine, it's basically the same as picking up about 5 american comics
Japanese people don't read American comics because they find them boring, that is whenever they can find them
>>84198838
So because I have not personally met these people, their experiences are invalid? Is that what you're saying now?
>>84198856
>So because I have not personally met these people, their experiences are invalid?
I'll take being gullible for 500.
>>84198902
So now you're arguing that anyone who has had positive experiences in Japan is lying?
>>84198932
No, I'm saying that you'll believe everything people tell you.
>>84187336
can someone name them all?
>>84199007
But they aren't telling me, specifically, anything. If I had met them in real life as you suggest, then they would be telling me, specifically. But you just suggested that their stories can only be true if they are personally relating them to me...
>>84199082
And come to think of it, aren't you telling me that I should believe anything you have to say on the matter? But that's not being gullible.
>>84198783
>Okinawa servicemen are bad meme
More proof that the Nips are and have always been xenophobic little shits.
Even wikipedia knows better anon.
"On February 12, 2008, the National Police Agency (of Japan) or NPA, released its annual criminal statistics that included activity within the Okinawan prefecture. These findings held American troops were only convicted of 53 crimes per 10,000 U.S. male servicemen, while Okinawan males were convicted of 366 crimes per 10,000. The crime rate found a U.S. serviceman in Okinawa to be 86% less likely to convicted of a crime by the Japanese government than an Okinawan male"
In before "muh conspiracy keeps them from being procescuted fairly." All crimes off-base and off-duty are prosecuted by Japan and crimes committed on base are prosecuted by the military.
Go hug your body pillow you weeb trash.
So we're all agreed that manga is comics?
>>84199352
It's completely unprecedented that an ethnic group would be more sensitive towards crimes perpetrated by another ethnic group. Only the Japs could be this xenophobic.
>>84199417
Obviously they are, but that doesn't mean comics as in American/European comics are the same thing as manga.
>>84189876
>>84190234
I remember when a certain cartoon about certain small, colorful farm animals first hit Nico, and people in Japan were not only praising the western VAs, but lamenting that Japanese seiyuu had a long way to go. And when it was finally dubbed into Japanese by the Milky Holmes cast, quite a few fans on 2ch were disgusted with the Japanese dub.
It's all relative.
>>84199352
>xenophobism is bad
another reason /co/mblr is real
if only west can adopt that and all the shitty comics could just stop bumping while the decent ones are filtered out.
>>84198841
They don't like American comic
but they prefer franco and belgian comic more.
People don't realize French and Japanese animation have been in cooperation for a long time.
>>84199032
I'm sure a lot of people can -- they're all from fairly acclaimed Vertigo series -- but I actually can't pinpoint the Wolfman-looking guy. Is it supposed to be Bigby? Did he go full Wolfman at some point? I stopped reading Fables a few years before it ended.
