What went right?
The visuals and the performances.
The scripts for both were both mediocre-to-bad, but everything else is so good I can ignore that.
Keaton-Bats' delivery. His Batman actually seemed like an insane shut-in.
>dat soundtrack
>great blend of camp and dark themes... Burton style
>Keaton
>Nicholson
>DeVito
>Walken
>>84187095
>"You wanna get nuts?"
>"Cmon, let's get nuts!"
>...
>*Bang*
Honestly love these movies. The only thing it lacked was detective work (*ahem*Kilmer*ahem*)
2nd film is too Burtony
W
X
Y
Z
HOO
TRUST!
WHO DO YA?
>>84187287
Tim Burton's Batman is the master of the Mike Hammer method, which is basically "breaking bones until he gets up to the next rung of the criminal ladder, repeat."
He's fucking brutal in those movies, Burton didn't give a fuck and it was great.
>>84187311
>AND WHERE'S BATMAN?
>HEEEEEES AT HOMEEEE
>WASHINGGG HIS TIGHTSSSSS!!!!!
>>84187095
>right?
The first movie had a Joker that actually acted like a clown. The second movie featured the greatest Penguin ever put to film IMHO.
>>84187095
>Danny Elfman on the score
>Keaton
>Nicholson
>the visual style
>Burton's direction
>Batman actually kills the Joker
>>84187439
>The second movie featured the greatest Penguin ever put to film IMHO.
He's the only one ever put on film.
the Prince score.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB-fSOds9AU
>>84187467
>Batman actually kills the Joker
I mean he didn't technically kill Joker. Bat of Manslaughter?
>>84187497
Friendly reminder: Google exists!
My uncle used to trick me with pic related when I was a wee lad.
>ya'll wanna watch the batman movie
>in my young mind i'm picturing the burton batman
>mfw it's 60's batman
Still both movies.
>>84187567
Still LOVE both movies is what I meant to type.
>>84187515
Burton Bats kills all of his enemies.
>Made Joker fall off a building
>Macross'd Pinguin
>Threw coins at Two-Face and made him fall
>>84187095
>What went right?
Art design, casting, performances, and a genuine respect for the source material (and I don't mean just hewing to exact retellings of the comics.)
Basically they did everything right that every single DC movie that followed did wrong.
>>84187515
Come on, he wanted Joker dead.
>>84187621
>Threw coins
That was Scumacher Batman
>>84187621
He didn't kill Riddler or Freeze. Although he put Freeze in the same room as Ivy which means she's fucked.
>>84187439
Eh, Merideth and the guy from Gotham were better. I think the only bad Penguin in any adaptation was some of the BTAS stuff.
>>84187650
Burton was still a producer for Batman Forever.
>>84187567
Burgess Meredith is the best Penguin, in my humble opinion.
>>84187628
>respect for the source material
That's a big stretch. Burton clearly didn't give a shit about the actual comic material, he wanted to make his half-grit/half-camp art-deco crime movies and used Batman as a way to get them made.
>>84187684
Producer doesn't mean anything.
>>84187725
>Producer doesn't mean anything.
You're right, anon.
A producer is just the person who has all the creative authority over a production and can make changes to script, casting, editing etc and fire anyone who disagrees with them.
Clearly, producer means nothing.
>>84187725
>he wanted to make his half-grit/half-camp art-deco crime movies and used Batman as a way to get them made.
I see nothing wrong with this. And I would say he was respectful enough to try to keep the tone of the comics intact. Or he was just such a naturally dark and whimsical director that he was a perfect fit for the character and setting.
>>84187762
It literally varies from person-to-person. He was probably thrown a producer credit because he had worked on the previous films and he was contracted to do a third film which fell through.
And Burton released Mars Attacks the same year Forever came out, I doubt he was working hard on a film he wasn't directing while doing his own film.
Do you think JJ Abrams does intense work on every Bad Robot production? Or Ridley Scott for every Scott Free film/show? What "producer" means varies from person-to-person.
>>84187725
>That's a big stretch. Burton clearly didn't give a shit about the actual comic material
Except that's absolutely wrong. Burton has gone on record as saying that he wanted to bring the themes of the comic at the time to film; he was heavily inspired by Killing Joke
>>84187095
Tim Burton and Michael Keaton.
Burton can do the Batman aesthetic and Keaton had a fantastic warped kind of approach to being Wayne and Batman.
Jack Nicholson and Danny DeVito as villains, they are both excellent.
Everything gets tied together so well. It was what a comic book batman brought to life should be and it was art. Let us also not forget Catwoman either, holy shit she did things to me growing up.
Best Batmobile inc!
Also, is it just me or did these two movies have better choreography than the Nolan movies? The Nolan movies try to be all martial artsy, but fails and just look awkward and clumsy.
Burton's movies has a mix of martial arts and the campy 60's fights, and it actually works. Keaton's Batman feels like a kickboxer or something whereas Balebat's enemies just fall over for no particular reason.
>>84189182
>Best Batmobile inc!
>>84189414
Damn it. Ok. Live action then.
>>84189182
Burton Batman is more of a weighty brawler. Nolan's is a generic action movie hero and Snyder's is a CG cartoon
>>84187650
All the Batman movies (1989-1997) are surprisingly part of the same universe.
>>84187567
>ya'll wanna watch the batman movie
>in my young mind i'm picturing the burton batman
>mfw it's 60's batman
My mom did that to me once, but with the Hulk movie. One day she was like "hey anon, I got that movie you wanted to watch on dvd for cheap" and it was The Death of the Incredible Hulk with Lou Ferrigno
>>84189182
It did look really weird in the Dark Knight when he's only ever hitting dudes with his elbows.
BABY
Dat Gotham
>>84191813
>this
Gotham was fucking beautiful in these movies.
A realistic 'magical' city
I think Returns might be my favourite live action Batman movie. So great.I watched both Forever and & Robin this week for the first time in years and jesus christ, they're worse than I remember. Fucking awful shit.
>>84191813
Some people complained about Gotham being too "set-like" in these movies, but goddamn if this isn't what I usually think of when I envision the city.
It's pretty Gothic.
>>84192567
>waaah I hate fun
Tell me 3 things that are objectively bad about the Schumacher movies that aren't just memes.
For example, "batnipples" is not a legitimate criticism of a movie.
>>84187342
I rewatched both films last year, and for whatever reason they struck me as a bit more brutal than the Nolan-verse films. Or at the least, Batman was clearly not interested in preserving the lives of criminals whereas in Nolan's films he is.
>>84188214
He was clearly willing to stretch the source material into new directions. He might have followed up on the themes of storylines like Killing Joke, but he clearly was picking and choosing certain iterations over others. Despite the darker atmosphere, there's very little of Frank Miller's Year One aesthetic in the Burton movies, it's too high-Gothic to support gritty realism (ex. the suits of armor in Wayne manor, Gotham's design, the art-deco 40's vibe that inspired TAS, etc).
>>84192659
Year One is honest to god cancer and one of the worst things to happen to the franchise.
>>84192567
batman and robin is a good time, but not a great film by any standard. it reminds me of 60s batman with a neon aesthetic if anything
>>84192701
batman year one has great art and some great moments though. whats so cancerous about it?
>>84192655
Bad dialogue
Lazy acting
Villains much less compelling than in Burton's films
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/batman/241923/batman-returns-the-evolution-of-the-bleakest-superhero-movie-ever/page/0/1
>>84189485
>>84192785
>bad dialogue
I see people use this criticism all the time but like it doesn't really hold impact on things like films or comics or whatever. I don't believe in such a thing as 'bad dialogue' - dialogue is just there to move the plot forward or develop a part of a character. it's a writing device used to move x piece to the next part in the narrative. how can dialogue be bad if it serves its purpose?
>not 'naturalistic'
there's no such thing as naturalistic dialogue because everybody talks differently from each other, unless you mean 'standard modern grammatical english' in which case you want everyone to be the same, boring person
>not one mention of Prince's soundtrack
>>84191813
Based Anton Furst. Still the best version of Gotham in the films.
>>84192896
>>84192896
He means it doesn't sound like Joss Whedon, like everything does now
Not enough quips or back-and-forth
>>84192896
Dialogue doesn't have to be "naturalistic" but it has to fit in the context of the film. The dialogue in Kill Bill would sound absolutely moronic in real life, but it works in the film because it's a send-up of action movies. Whereas the dialogue in these films doesn't work on any level; it's not gritty realism and it's not campy fun, it's just uncomfortable.
>>84192972
>muh quips
Have you seen Batman and Robin? Half the movie is Arnold making ice jokes.
>>84187508
huh I remember jamming out to that song as a kid. Now I know why
>>84192701
>Year One is honest to god cancer and one of the worst things to happen to the franchise.
You are fucking cancer and i regret knocking up your mom years ago
>>84192592
Burton's Gotham works so much for me because it's set-like. You don't look at it and see the Chicago. This Gotham is entirely its own animal.
>>84187095
Nothing. They're horrible films.
>>84187762
You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Producer can mean literally anything. In the case of the Batman Forever it meant Burton was contracted for three films and neither he nor the studio wanted him to make a third so they put his name on it and gave him a check. He had zero creative input.
>>84193336
Why do kids have shit taste these days?
>>84187095
>Mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it
>A neck can be deadlier if you snap it
What did he mean by this?
>>84195382
I know what you mean! Seems like every dumb-ass kid loved those shit movies. Can't believe anyone can watch that shit.
>>84196924
Nolanfag, pls
The thing you got to keep in mind about these films (first two) is that Burton really doesn't give a shit about Batman, but he's absolutely fascinated by the Joker, Penguin and Catwoman as concepts.
Burton is interested in freakish loners and outsiders who eschew polite WASP society and forge their own path.
Jack Nicholson is the most interesting thing in Batman 89 and he's basically given free reign to ham it up and chew the scenery.
Phipher's Catwoman has this mousy/sexually submissive secretary turn S&M Bondage Cat Mistress arc and Penguin is a commentary on how the media portrays the physically deformed with a little mix of political satire.
Also, Christopher Walken as Max Shreck doesn't belong in a Batman film, but somehow it just works and he turns in probably one of the best performances of his career.
Tim Burton had a vision. I can say that much. It's more than I can say for Bryan Singer.
>>84197474
I love this scene.
>>84197474
That is such a fucking badass scene.
>>84191813
What I loved about Burton's depiction of Gotham was that it felt like a city that was trapped in time. You had classical art deco style buildings and people wearing old-timey 1940s era clothing but it had modern (By 1980s standards) technology as well. It gave it a surreal quality that made it a sight to behold.
>>84187762
You don't know anything about credits, please shut your mouth.
>>84197474
>"Gee, Mr. Wayne, how come you have a huge custom-built Batsignal in your property, one that shines inside the house rather than outside, while we're at it?"
>>84198121
This mentality is why films are so fucking shit nowadays.
Such a shame nobody told Tim Burton this visually interesting scene wasn't LOGICAL enough so he could change it to something boring as fuck like Nolan would.
Because god forbid our superhero bat costume man film didn't make sense.
>>84187467
Exactly this.
>>84192972
>Batman Forever
>Batman & Robin
>Not enough quips
>>84197474
How would Nolan and Snyder had done this scene?
>>84198677
>Batman beating the shit out of a shoplifter
>Pucks on the bat symbol branding iron
>Signal lights the sky
>Activates the heat of the brand
>"Looks like I have to cut this short, punk"
>Brands the kid and runs over three burglars while heading to the GCPD
>>84198303
Calm down, son, it's a joke.
>>84198677
Nolan would fill that entire scene up with monologue / whining from My Cocaine
>until dat loight shine inna skoie yer a diffren purrson
>>84198975
Well I suppose Snyder would do it that way. Pretty sure Nolan would have more meaningless dialogue though.
>>84187342
>WASHINGGG HIS TIGHTSSSSS!!!!!
I kind of wonder if they forgot to edit the script after the director and costume designer opted for rubber armour.
>>84192759
It was a 90's toy commercial disguised as 60's Batman.
>>84199018
The point still stands
>>84187684
Which means as much as Nolan producing Batman vs. Superman.
>>84187095
Based Bob the goon
>>84199318
Damn that is pretty much the best way I've seen B&R described. Given that Schumacher got steamrolled by the execs, it's pretty accurate.
>>84199426
He was a good goon, truly his death was the worst crime Jocker committed.
>>84199426
>>84198677
Nolan
>The Batsignal shines in the sky
>"They're calling you, Master Wayne."
>"No, Alfred, they're calling the Batman."
>"It is who you are, Sir."
>"No. Batman is a symbol. An idea. A personification of absolute justice. Incorruptible, untouchable, unbreakable."
>"Batman might be a symbol, but it can only exist through the man that brings it to life. You're that man, Sir. And much as you hate to admit it, you're human, and deals with absolutes in a human way. And if absolute power corrupts absolutely, then what effect has absolute justice in the man that has to see it done. How can you, as a man, determine where the edge is between absolute justice and absolute vengeance? Isn't vengeance, in on itself, absolute in its influence?"
>"I can't afford to question the limits, Alfred. As Batman, I should be unburdened by then."
>"Therein lies the dilemma, Master Wayne. The limits exist, and there will be those who come to reclaim them. And they'll knock at Bruce Wayne's door. Who, I wonder, will answer? Batman, you say, is untouchable, unbreakable. But for it to remain this way, must Bruce Wayne be there to be broken in his place?"
>Alfred leaves Bruce in a pensive state.
Snyder
>The Batsignal shines in the sky... IN SLOW MOTION. The greyscale filter merges it to the surrounding clouds.
>Bruce Wayne notices it, WITH OMINOUS LATIN CHANTING
>Bruce stands up, as THUNDER STRIKES. The Wayne Manor windows are church vitrals, FOR SYMBOLISM.
>The thunder and the Batsignal project Bruce's shadow on the wall. It appears as if it is crucified, with his DEEP and RICH WITH SUBTEXT
>Bruce's eye twitches as he ventures into the Batcave through his grandfather's clock, WHICH EXPLODES, LEVING THE ENTIRE ROOM
>[CHANTING INTENSIFIES]
>>84199426
I only found out recently he was Jack's IRL best friend. Imagine being a fucking nobody and being good buddies with one of the greatest actors of all time who gets you into a major blockbuster movie just because.
>>84199517
Damn really? He was great in the role.
>>84199508
Man I miss him already
>>84199508
That's pretty good, senpai
>>84199508
>>84197802
>Burton is interested in freakish loners and outsiders who eschew polite WASP society and forge their own path.
How is that not Batman?
>>84199517
I wouldn't say he was a nobody. Dude had been in films for a while.
What did he mean by this?
>>84199508
Bravo, good /co/mrade.
>>84187201
And his Bruce Wayne was just eccentric, shut-in and unsociable enough that you'd wonder why no one ever figured out he was Batman unless it was outright revealed to them.
It's also hard to understand why Commissioner Gordon tolerated him despite his frequent body counts.
>>84200363
No actor has ever really fully successfully struck a good balance between Bruce Wayne and Batman.
Keaton's Batman was very memorable while his Bruce Wayne apparently had no concept of putting any effort into maintaining his secret identity.
Kilmer's Batman was pretty basic, while his Bruce Wayne was this quiet, unemotive brick wall.
Clooney acted completely the same whether he was Batman or Bruce Wayne. On the other hand, he's also probably the best on-screen rendition of Silver Age Batman since Adam West.
Bale had a fairly convincing Wayne but his Batman left a lot to be desired.
I actually really like Affleck's Wayne but his Batman just felt really goofy to me a lot of the time. The costume in particular looked silly on him, especially the mask.
>>84200732
I don't agree with you about Keaton's Bruce. Sure, he wasn't the suave playboy we're used to, but as Knox described him he as a flake, a rich weirdo. Mind you, this is a Burton film, so Bruce was probably genuinely a bit of a space cadet, but I don't think anyone would make an easy connection between the wealthy airhead and the theatrical, hyper-violent vigilante.
>>84201130
Why not?
It's actually not that hard to fit the pieces together when you know where to look. Only someone who's incredibly wealthy would be able to afford all this shit Batman has. Coupled with the fact that Bruce Wayne has such a reclusive lifestyle that even a pair of journalists sent specifically to a charity party taking place at his house to cover it didn't know what he looked like. I mean, the moment Vicki learned that his parents were killed right in front of him, she immediately made the connection. Bruce Wayne has the money, motive and lifestyle to be Batman. And in Batman Returns, he even told Shrek, as Bruce Wayne, that he knew that there was a connection between the Penguin and the clown gang. Why the fuck would Bruce Wayne know about that?
That's why Bruce has to put in a lot of effort into keeping his dual identities as far-removed from each other as possible. He even creates fake parties and overseas trips just to give himself an alibi.
>>84201298
It's easy for you to make that connection because you're an outside observer who's already invested in the idea of Batman. Up until the end of the movie most people in Gotham didn't even believe there was a Batman. And Vicki can make the connection because, in addition to being pretty canny, she also interacts closely with both Bruce and Batman. She's got the personality and experiences and information necessary to put the pieces together. Most people do not.
>>84201423
The thing is there really aren't that many potential candidates for who could be Batman. If the police really tried, REALLY tried to figure out who he was, and given Batman's complete disregard for cleaning up after himself (he's personally responsible for countless deaths and not once does he ever at least try to double-check the area and eliminate any evidence that it was his doing), Bruce Wayne would probably be one of the top suspects.
Imagine if Vicki actually paid attention to the road and tried to memorize the route to the Batcave. At least blindfold her you fucking moron.
>>84187170
this
Returns > 89
>>84199508
wow just wow
>>84187095
The look and feel of Gotham and the costumes were cool, sans bat-nipples.
I'm conflicted about Batman. It doesn't go all out like Returns does, and has weird tonal shifts all throughout. It has its moments, but it's such an odd film.
>>84204660
Burton movies don't have bat-nipples.
Not much IMO. Liked Joker, but hated Batman. And Returns was shit.
Batman v Superman > The Dark Knight > Batman Begins = The Dark Knight Rises > Batman (1966) = Batman > Batman Returns > Batman Forever > Batman & Robin
Batfleck's batsuit and all his scenes in the movie (except for Flash time travel, but that's not Ben's fault) are God's work. To be muh Batman, he only needed an absolute unbreakable not killing code. That ruins an otherwhise perfect Batman adaptation.
>>84187095
>left: film
>right: kino
>>84206729
Needs longer ears, hope they fix this in Justice League: Kinopiece I
>>84206729
But he killed loads of dudes with his Deathmobile, and he blew up KGBeast.
>>84199508
nice
>>84206729
>kids born post 1995 actually believe this
>>84206729
Batman v Superman > Batman Returns > The Dark Knight > Batman > Batman Begins >>>> rest >>>>> Batman 1966 (too fucking camp for me)
>>84206729
Eh, we've had at least 3 awesome series of Batman movies, at this point who's the best Batman is really just a matter of personal preferences. Some will prefer Burton's gothic/fable-like take, some will prefer Nolan's practicality, others Snyder's XTREME-DKR version
And i'd really like to think the Batfleck suit is the best, it probably is the most comic-like, but A) muh trunks, B) mask is too fat, they need more balance there, even girls all horny for Affleck told me the mask was too weird and made him look ugly C) same for the rubber muscles, he's too bulky, it's ok because he's usually in the dark and you can't notice it, but that picture highlights how it could become a problem
>>84206874
>Eh, we've had at least 3 awesome series of Batman movies
Shit, i meant 2 + a promising Batfleck
>>84206847
Yeah, i said the killing was Batfleck's biggest flaw. Fucking Snyder and his manslaughter bullshit.
>>84206858
1991 kid. And yeah, i can asure you i'm not baiting, is just my sincere opinion.
>>84206874
I love the bulky Bats, 'cause my favorite version of him is the Arkhamverse one. And i don't find any issue with the mask. Finally, about the trunks, they look cool in the Arkham games, but i don't miss them for Batfleck suit.
Looks like Batman is in Netflix. I think I'll watch it. I haven't seen it for maybe 15 years
>>84206941
Wow, It was actually really good.
