Now that both of these shows are over. Who was the better villain?
Bill started a lot stronger but Dominator ended stronger. She started kind of obnoxious but got more fleshed out, while Bill was more charismatic but pretty one-note.
Dominator's character grew up bit annoying when they tried to show she was actually good deep down. That evil was now replaced with another problematic villains who's confused in her motives.
Bill stayed constant on what he wanted and his overall goal. He barely broke out of the character we were introduced to.
Bill was the better villain but that probably is because he was only used sparingly and not every episode. This whole argument would be different though if GF's got a 3 season
>>84157878
I'd say both shows would have become very different if they got the third seasons that they wanted.
>>84157768
>now that both shows are over
Make way for a better villain.
Jasper.
>>84157935
No one wants you here, /sug/.
>>84157932Toffee will be judged once he makes his glorious return in season 2
Hater
>>84157768
The Lich.
>>84157932
>/sveg/ fags have to remind us that they got a 3 season
We get it. You got a 3rd season. Now shut the fuck up.
>>84157768
Lord Hater
>>84157768
Hater duh
>>84157878
>Dominator's character grew up bit annoying when they tried to show she was actually good deep down.
That's not what happened though. We saw her inner weakness (not goodness), which was way more refreshing than her constant "I'm better than everyone at everything lol" schtick. If anything was annoying, early Dom was.
>>84157837
This. Dominator started out as a stereotypical Disney villain, only to show that there is more to her beyond that. She's essentially an evil Wander. Bill on the other hand has nothing, becoming completely incompetent once he actually achieved his goal.
Dominator at least seemed like some kind of threat.
Bill was always obnoxious and never threatening.
>>84158612
What is with /co/ rating villains by threat level above all else?
By that logic Doomsday is a good villain.
>84158737
Alright, let me explain so you could understand.
Anton Chigurh and John Doe from Se7en are just people and they are far more threatening than most villains because of presence alone.
Now take someone like Freddy Krueger from Freddy is Dead. Yes, he's pretty much invincible and can get you when you're completely helpless, but that doesn't make him any more threatening. He's essentially a joke character.
That's what I mean by "threatening". Bill could be omnipotent god or at least like Doomsday for all I care, and he would still never be threatening.
>>84157768
I overall like Bill's character more. It's hilarious how the illuminati that has appeared all throughout history is actually a sentient psychotic triangle from the 2nd dimension. Maybe I'm biased though because I hate those annoying fangirl characters.
If I were to change Bill for the better though, I would like to learn a little bit more about how Bill escaped and destroyed the ENTIRE second dimension, and how he got his god like powers.
>>84157768
I really didn't like Bill. He always felt way too mischievous to be the big bad final boss. I was hoping his "friends" would be much more threatening demons who would drag him back to the other realm once they were defeated.
Dominator had an interesting juxtaposition between threatening and goofy teenager.
Both shows would have definitely benefited with a third season. I'm not too clear on the reasoning for changing GF's plan from 3 seasons to 2, but WoY definitely would have been nice with a 3rd season, if only to see some expanded backstories like they had planned.
>>84157768
HATE'S GREAT
>>84157768
Maul
The Beast
>>84158887
Again, that's not the sole property defining if a villain is good or not. Hades' presence in Hercules isn't very threatening at all, but he's still a fantastic villain.
Villains aren't just plot devices.
>>84157768
I haven't seen WOY but I already know the answer is Dominator, I just know it.
Alex a hack.
>>84159206
Except Hades was never supposed to be threatening. He is supposed to be an ineffectual joke character.
Bill is supposed to be a threat, but it never feels like it.
And yes, a villain being threatening does make them better. And no, Doomsday is not and never was threatening.
>plot devices
Everything in fiction is a plot device, fuck off.
>>84158233
If he had actually done something with those prisoners and not turned into a baby instead I would agree
>>84158233
>AT having good villains
>implying AT's villains even matter outside of the episodes centered around fighting them
1 word, 6 letters, it ain't just a river in Egypt
>>84159021
>Alex Hirsch wants to end Gravity Falls at two seasons
>Disney begs and pleads for him to stay
>McCracken wants a third season of Wander
>Disney goes "ehhhhhh we'll think about it" and cans the show
>>84157768
I liked them both a whole lot actually, for their sheer fun factor.
Both probably suffered from their shows ending prematurely though, by choice in GF's case a season early, in WOY's case because it was cancelled obviously.
Bill probably suffered more. It seemed liked there was a plan at one point to have three seasons and his arc seemed messed up by only having two instead. There were some more complicated potential mysteries and more interesting ideas (i.e. Flatland) behind Bill than Lord Dom but they didn't get utilized really.
Meanwhile while Lord Dominator's show was cancelled instead of choosing to end it (early I think in GF's case), her character's arc was designed for only one season, so while I would have really liked to see what they would have done with her if the show hadn't been cancelled, her arc was completed I think as planned and completed well. I was more satisfied with the way her character wrapped up than Bill's.
Sadly, or maybe not sadly I don't know, both may be ultimately remembered for the massive amount of fetish pornography they spawned both here and overseas, which will long outlive their respective shows.
>>84157932
I like him, but goddamn is his show shit.
Watching it for him was like digging through shit just to find one diamond.
>>84159397
And this is why Alex deserves all the shit he gets.
Manlets, not even once.
>>84158887
No, it is not difficult to make a sadistic Lovecraftian entity that knows all of your deepest thoughts and can possess you and force you to hurt yourself and others threatening (and is willing to do so, even with children), they just didn't really "go there" in the end, maybe because it was a Disney cartoon.
I mean Dominator destroyed multiple galaxies and realistically her body count would be in the trillions, but they needed to show everyone and everything was okay, they are shows for kids. I think the thing is Wander Over Yonder was more consistently this Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd silly thing while Gravity Falls seemed to have other ambitions sometimes so it was less consistent.
But back to Bill, even having a wacky sort of personality for a supernatural terror is a horror staple. An it's all fun and games for them but not for their victims kind of thing.
But things like not being in control of yourself or knowing what's even real is a less kid show fear which is why tumblr edgelords picked it up and ran with it most likely, making things that were creepier and scarier then the show, although often cringey/tryhard. I was still a little let down by the finale because the things that made him potentially a creepy and effective enemy were not used at all. Also he was better as a more personal threat who caused emotional strife but things were kind of glossed over.
Like making a hurt, sad little girl into the harbringer of the apocalypse in her lowest moment because of her simple desire to spend more time with her twin? That's fucking monstrous and despicable, but it's also totally glossed over by the show.
>>84159453
>Watching it for him was like digging through shit just to find one diamond.
Yeah, but when he finally shows up it feels so good.
>>84157768
Bill was a better villain, but Dominator was a better character.
>>84157768
Dominator had begun her transformation into a tsundere in the last few episodes, and presumably would have shed her status as a true villain through S3. Bill was a piece of shit until the very end.
I know it's a matter of "What if?", but I can't help but feel that regardless of Bill's flaws, Dominator would eventually have been disqualified.
In any case, this: >>84157932
>>84158233
Fuck the Lich, he was only ever interesting before he was actually introduced into the series.
>>84159397
>Gravity Falls
>no third season
>didn't even get a movie so we could have a proper end to the series
>ending was complete dogshit
>Dipper had to give up his dreams for Mabel for the millionth time
Fuck Alex Hirsch, I hope he's blacklisted from fucking everything.
>>84157932
Fun fact, he's based on a typical FBI agent as they cleverly knew that's what their main demographic fears the most
>>84160228
I thought he was dubs man?
>>84159807
>An it's all fun and games for them but not for their victims kind of thing.
I feel like they didn't "go there" with it too. Scenes like deer teeth and screaming head are too comedic for a "villain enjoying themselves and a character being horrified" kind of scene. Gideon's/Dipper's fear feels more like it's flowing along with the joke instead of being contrasting, if you get what I mean.
>>84160228
Pedoposter pls.
>>84160267
I want Toffee's voice actor to voice the lines in American Psycho audio-book.
>>84160274
He was just Alex making an edgy knockoff of MLP's knockoff of Q, all derived from his impotent lust for Lauren Faust.
>>84159986
Too early to tell with Toffee villain wise but I'm ready to be dissapointed.
>>84157935
I like Jasper but she's barely been in the show and had little development, it looks like that's going to change, though.
>>84160267
He totally is.
>>84160310
Toffe's voice actor is dexter, the serial killer not the one who had a secret laboratory.
>>84159807
>think the thing is Wander Over Yonder was more consistently this Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd silly thing while Gravity Falls seemed to have other ambitions sometimes so it was less consistent.
The issue is WoY was initally supposed to be a more serialized show likw Gravity Falls with 22 minute episodes, but Disney made them do the 11 minute Bugs/Elmer thing.
Jesus, the more I read about what could have been with Wander, the angrier I get. Why did they shit on this show so damn badly?
>>84160274
I think Bill's concept had a lot of potential but Gravity Falls was mostly a very goofy show along the lines of The Simpsons or Family Guy even aside from being for kids, what could they really do there? Obviously a mind demon could be a very scary thing but they weren't going to have Bill force Dipper to murder and eat Mabel or something on the show. Well, compare to the "adult" version of Bill, Bob from Twin Peaks, who they nodded to a few times w/ Bill. Bob feeds on human suffering and murders and rapes people but baby Bob, Bill, isn't going to do that on a Y7 cartoon show.
>>84160453
Oh shit, it's true. He has surprising range, I instantly recognized his voice in Gods and Monsters, but not in Star.
>>84160456
It sucks but it's easier to make $$$$ with retarded episodic shit and especially since Wander Over Yonder had such great themes of empathy and its limits and fuck I'm mad now too, fuck Disney for canceling WOY.
>>84159344
... sticks?
>>84160476
Well, I don't ask for a horror movie shit in a kid cartoon, but look at W.I.T.C.H for example.
It was a Disney show too and was mostly light-hearted, but it could get darker when it needed to without it feeling jarring. GF could use that kind of transition.Yes, I know that comic is better
>>84159986
We don't know what Bill's backstory and motivation even was so who knows if he's sympathetic or not.
>>84160541
>It sucks but it's easier to make $$$$ with retarded episodic shit
That's bitterly ironic seeing just today Craig posted on his tumblr about his proposal for Wander merch being rejected
I thought after Phineas and Ferb gave Disney boatloads of cash, they'd be nicer to their shows.
>>84160653
Disney notoriously has always shit on their tv division, favoring their movies to the point of neglecting and mistreating their shows.
Bill was the better villain in the fact that he actually had a logical end game that he was working for and directly benefited him.
He was powerful, but also limited by a clear set of rules in most of his encounters.
Dominator was essentially a bigger child than Hater. The first thing she does after destroying the galaxy is bemoan it being over.
Her power level was obnoxious to the point that an attempt to stop her just gives her ice abilities that she never actually uses.
Even in the dog shit finale, Bill had to be tricked/outwitted. Hater just bent Dominator over his knee when the plot demanded it, twice. Then she whines a lot and fucks off in a bubble, her fate completely unresolved.
If Hater was Skeletor, Dominator is pic related.
>>84159807
>I mean Dominator destroyed multiple galaxies and realistically her body count would be in the trillions, but they needed to show everyone and everything was okay, they are shows for kids.
When making this point, everybody seems to lose sight of the fact that nothing about WoY can reasonably be connected to the real(istic) world.
People flit across "interstellar" (quotes because, again, it's kind of silly to use a realistic term) distances in over-sized soap bubbles. Maybe you'll find a door into The Void along the way in your travels. Armies of walking eyeballs and hands do constant battle. There's Jupiter-sized dogs.
All this is to say that it's not unrealistic at all that Dominator didn't actually kill a single being. People evacuate planets all the time in the Wanderverse. It probably helps that most of the time, said planets may or may not be the size of a city block. And that of course further throws into doubt how many people Dominator could ever have hoped to kill (unless she started running into a whole bunch of worlds filled with those perfectly realistic lilliputian aliens from Neckbeard's store... yeah).
So ultimately, all that we're really left with is a girl who likes dark clothes and makeup, and who boasts about how much she likes witnessing people suffer... More commonly known as an edgy teenager. Or to use Sylvia's words: "the biggest B in the galaxy."
Pic related as a counterpoint because it's the one episode I can recall her actually putting somebody in mortal danger.
>>84157932
This. Jesus Christ. This.
>>84160749
Yeah, I knew this. I was hoping after P&F was such a huge success they'd knock that shit off.
But then once P&F dipped ever so slightly in popularity, they wiped it off the face of the earth, so what do I know?
>>84160031
yeah, I still don't get why people think Dipper becoming Ford's apprentice was ever going to be a reasonable option instead of returning back home and moving on with a normal life.
I wanted to see Dipper make the decision to go back home with Mabel out of his OWN volition, his own desire to return to a normal life rather than pursue even further into this crazy shit with Ford.
>>84157768
Dominator felt like a third wheel even in a plot centered entirely around her, while Bill felt like an integral character with meaningful interactions with the rest of the cast, while also in a plot built around him.
>>84160653
I feel like Disney tends to treat their shows better if they feature prominent child characters. Wander's a fine character, but it's probably harder for kids to identify with him or Sylvia than say, Star Butterfly or Mabel Pines.
>>84160942
Counterpoint: the buttloads of Perry the Platypus merchandise.
>>84157768
>>84157932
1.Dominator
2.Bill
3.Meme surprise guy
I am glad that Dominator was a jerk until the end.
>>84160792
Well, she did murder Beep Boop, who was a pretty sympathetic character, and did attempt to kill the MCs.
>>84157768
Bill never felt like a real threat, until maybe the end
but he always felt like a cronie of a main villain, not a main villain himself
Dominator was a real threat that pretty much ended with Wander being wrong for the whole series
like Wander always believed there's good in everyone and everyone can be a friend, he was right that she was damaged and needed a friend, but in the end she couldn't be helped and action was the only way to beat her
Dominator because I need to crush her delicious lime-flavored cunt
>>84157768
Bill's best villain moment was at the end of DaMvtF. That was an amazing, amazing villain moment for any medium. And very well executed especially the silent end credits.
Lord Dominator was at her most evil in The Flower and of course there's that death from The Bot, but people will remember her for I'm The Bad Guy probably.
Not sure who I like more.
>>84161105
This gives me a gigantic boner, yet the mickey hands turn me down at the same time.
>>84161022
Bill presumably destroyed an entire dimension and killed almost the whole Time Corps so he was a threat, but the barrier thing was stupid. It dropped,the stakes way down and muh status quo. Imagine if the world had needed to deal with the Apocalypse instead and Dipper and Mabel worrying that their parents and billions of others could be dead.
>>84157768
Dominator
Cipher's threat revolved around his mysterious nature
All of that went to fucking shit in the finale, where he was just a fucking party animal who wanted to just have an interdimensional frat. It was awful.
Meanwhile Dominator's threat revolved around her being a goddamn galactic threat, and she was. The heroes tried multiple times to stop her, and actually failed a few times.
Meanwhile Cipher was beaten every time he showed up
>>84161154
off screen threats don't count as a real threat because we never really see it
sure he killed Time Baby, but all we left knowing about them is they go back to regroup
for all we know Dominator probably destroyed countless galaxies
>>84160998
>robot
>murder
:^)
Besides, she even let a watchdog get away with no consequences when she found him hiding on her ship.
>>84161105
L E W D
E
W
D
>>84157768
>all of the people in this thread implying that Dominator has any semblance of being a decently written character, let alone anywhere as good as Bill, let alone Hater
I cannot put into words how disgusted I am.
>>84161190
One big problem with both as villains was there being no consequences at all to either of their actions, Stan's memories come right back and all the planets Dom destroyed are just instantly okay again, and the really awful things each character does like killing Beep Boop and fucking Mabel are never addressed.
>>84160908
Because moving on with a normal life is a terrible ending.
>>84161222
>bill, the one note villain who literally does nothing and has literally no depth
>better than a shallow character with little depth, but still AT LEAST SOME
Im disgusted by your idiocy
>>84161194
We see him literally disintegrate Time Baby and the other Time Cops onscreen...
>>84157932
who the fuck is this? I keep seeing him around, but i have no idea who this is.
>>84161105
>that face
Goddamn.
>>84161249
>implying dominator has ANY depth beyond being an edgy "lol im so quirky xD" waifu-bait character
Bill doesn't have any depth, sure, but at least he's interesting and amusing. Literally the only people who would defend Dominator are people who are attracted to her.
Anyone who says anything good about Dominator outside of her looks is a liar and a degenerate.
>>84161253
it was really the 1st thing he did on screen that was actually threatening, something the main characters failed to counter (mostly because they had no idea it happened)
Time Baby and Time cops getting disintegrated are more reason to tell the viewer why they wouldn't have done anything in the finale
you don't even see the time traveler again
>>84161222
Both characters are fine and entertaining but like 90% of each character's fanbase just wants to fuck them and doesn't care if the writers fuck them up
>>84161306
>Dominator
>"entertaining"
She's only "entertaining" because they gave her huge hips and have her constantly flaunt her looks. She's blatant waifu-bait. At least they actually tried to make Bill entertaining. Dominator is pretty much just Pyronica as far as "depth" or "entertainment" goes. Even then, at least Pyronica has an interesting design.
>>84161305
the time people pretty much got jobbed is what i'm saying
ITT: people addressing joke characters from kiddie cartoons as though they were antagonists from serious adult shows.
>>84161265
Toffee from Star Vs. the Forces of Evil
Can someone explain to me why Hater is any better than Dominator? I mean seems like pretty much the same thing, the only difference seems to be that Hater is scripted to Loose rather than Win, and is therefore incompetent.
>>84159327
I don't know, slamming Booster Gold's head in a car door was pretty damn threatening to me as a kid.
>>84161208
Beep Boop was sentient and feeling goddammit. Tha evil bitch murdered him in cold blood.
>>84161325
Sorry you have shit taste and can't see past a character's looks.
>>84161381
Please, for the love of all that is good, tell me this is bait. No sensible living being could be this stupid. I refuse to accept it.
>>84161419
Well then, please, educate me; why is Dominator a good character? She's an edgy "SO QUIRKY XD" obnoxious pile of shit. It makes me cringe to watch scenes with her. She's genuinely like an OC made by a 14 year old girl. She's not funny, she's just an edgy character that they made quirky so that people would like her.
>inb4 "you can't use buzzwords!"
She's literally edgy. She wants to destroy an entire galaxy and kill countless innocent people just for fun. I don't know what else you would call that.
>>84157768
Bill was, until he turned into a Chad.
>>84161325
I had a lot of fun watching Lord Dominator personally though I do think Bill was more unique and interesting as a character, just the concept and humor were better. I can understand getting annoyed though because in some places they're the only things from those shows people want to talk about and that is always really annoying. Their fans can be obnoxious. After Dominator showed up tons and tons of waifufags appeared overnight only caring about WOY for her and on youtube or some other sites it's just girls screaming about how sexy Bill is and how they want to spread their legs for him. But if I hated shit for the fans I would hate everything.
>>84161457
No i just haven't seen all of the show, i'm really not trying to bait, it's just from what i've seen on Tv it seems to me they really aren't that different Lul for teh Ebils characters.
>>84161536
Lord Hater is evil because he wants to impress people and be cool. He's very insecure about himself. Unlike Lord Dominator, who wants to kill everyone for fun because she's so gosh darn quirky and epic, Lord Hater A. only wants to take over the galaxy, and B. has reasons behind it. Also, Lord Hater isn't absurdly overpowered and boring like Dominator; he's a loser, but that's what makes it entertaining; to see the times when he does win. With Dominator, the outcome was always obvious; she always won every encounter (except the last episode, obviously) because she's overpowered as fuck. Hater is also extremely strong, but he actually has to make an effort to be strong.
>>84161498
Humor is subjective but what I like is that she is a good foil for Wander, an anti-Wander, and the biggest challenge to Wander's whole world view. She also forced Hater to grow and I think the best measure of an antagonist is how they challenge the protagonists. But if she didn't work for, she didn't work, I can't argue against that.
Anyway I will really miss WOY and all its potential.
Neither.HATES GREAT
>>84161576
Maybe if we'd gotten a Season 3 we could have seen how Dominator dealt with losing and expounded on her lonliness and motivations. But we'll never know now, will we?
>>84161527
The thing that makes Dominator's fans different from Bill's fans is that with Dominator, the only good thing about her is her looks. Her personality is really obnoxious and quirky and randum xD. Bill, on the other hand, is a much more interesting character.
Anyone who thinks Dominator is genuinely funny just has bad taste in humor. She's random and quirky because, woah, bad guys arent usually quirky! WOAH! Epic!
>>84161596
>She's a good foil
True, but she's still terribly written. She never even really challenged Wander's point of view; sure, she made him question if he could befriend her, but even in the end she still fell for the stupid magic of friendship bullshit, because she's "lonely" (even though she's totally okay with killing potentially billions of people).
>She forced Hater to grow
True, again. But, once again, she could've done a much better job of that. All she did was reject him, and we never really see Hater's response or growth, it's all off-screen.
I know what they were trying to do with Dominator, but they failed in every aspect. It's a damn shame that Season 2 had to be poisoned by her.
>>84161576
So basically regular average Joe's identify with Hater, and Dominator is a product of the cancer that plagues our society?
>>84161643
That still wouldn't redeem her for being such a shitty character throughout Season 2.
>>84161676
I guess. Hater is a character who acts human; Dominator can barely be called a character with how two-dimensional she is.
>>84161299
>interesting
No.
>amusing
He's annoying as hell. There's nothing amusing about him.
>>84161498
What's wrong with her being edgy? She's a bad guy.
Hater had a Skullship and wanted to conquer the galaxy, Sourdough was a weird purple energy dragon thing that possessed people and presumably left them for dead, and Dominator's got an Imperial battle cruiser and needs Volcano X.
Seemed logical enough in that sort of galaxy.
>>84161498
Yeah, she IS edgy. But she's edgy in a manner informed by all of McCracken's sensibilities, and WoY's zany style, which, to use your words, produces a quirky result. So she's lovable. Much like Hater, I would add, who is a creature from the same brood of archetypal misfits and outcasts. They're BOTH self-involved teenagers, where he's a tryhard weirdo and she's a strident bitch.
>I don't know what else you would call that.
Uh, I'd use much worse words than "edgy". Of course her character doesn't actually warrant the burden of such ridiculously heavy motives, because WoY is a kids' show in a whacked-out cartoon universe with its own whacked-out cartoon physics and whacked-out cartoon characters. Interrogating her actions as if she's on trial for war crimes at the International Court of Justice makes no sense. See >>84160792.
>>84161700
He's more interesting/amusing than Dominator, at least. You can't tell me with a straight face you found her more interesting/amusing than him. I'm not saying Bill is a good character, I'm saying Dominator is a horrible character because she's worse than Bill.
>>84161596
>>84161708
Yes, exactly.
>>84161738
They're equally shit and not even slightly interesting or amusing.
>>84157768
they were both pretty shitty honestly
>>84161381
>why Hater is any better than Dominator
You mean aside from him being a monkey launched into space by America?
>>84161708
The difference between Dominator and Hater/Sourdough is that she actively wants to kill everything in the Galaxy, and her only motive is having fun. That's like comparing someone who slapped you to a serial killer.
She's an edgy, obnoxious, 2quirky4u character who ruins every episode she's in.
>>84161758
>I hate things that are popular
>>84161719
>So she's lovable.
How? She wants to kill everyone for fun, yet they try to make you feel bad for her having no friends. She's a fucking pain to watch.
The fact that you can say Dominator is anywhere near being as good as Hater is fucking revolting.
>>84161794
>shitty strawman
>>84161719
>Dom is a good girl, she dindu muffin
>>84161785
My man, please see this counterpoint that is superior to anything I could've made >>84160792
>>84161825
I want to dindu in her muffin
>>84161665
But people also only like Bill for his...looks...wait...okay, never mind.
>>84161806
Hater wanted to and tried to kill Wander many times.
I would urge you to stop being oblivious to clear facts, but your previous posts indicate that you have a strong underlying aversion to deviation from established patterns of stimulation, which obstructs normal cognitive function.
>>84161864
>but your previous posts indicate that you have a strong underlying aversion to deviation from established patterns of stimulation, which obstructs normal cognitive function.
Not the anon you're talking to, but stop using such formal language.
It doesn't make you sound smart, it just makes you sound like a douchebag and only serves to weaken your argument when presented as such.
>>84160792
>>84161719
>>84161835
The fact that WOY takes place in a whacky cartoony universe doesn't change her intention. Her goal was to destroy everything and everyone in the galaxy. Saying that that's okay because we don't SEE anyone die is fucking stupid. Sure, Wander is a silly show and sure, planets are really small. This doesn't make Dominator's goal any less edgy and stupid. Wanting to kill everyone in the galaxy just for fun is a lazy way to write a villain, even for a silly goofy cartoon. Sure, she doesn't NEED to be well written, but the fact that it's a kids show doesn't make the fact that she's poorly written disappear. That's like saying it's okay for a cartoon to be bad, because cartoons are for kids. People like you are why the vast, vast majority of cartoons are turning to shit.
>>84161864
>Hater wanted to and tried to kill Wander many times.
And he had a reason to. He had a personal grudge with him and he wanted to look cool and intimidating. That's the difference between Hater and Dominator; Hater has a reason to do what he does, and Dominator just does it "because im the bad guy!".
>You're dumb because you have a different opinion! You're autistic!
Boy, you sure showed me.
>>84161896
I disagree that she's badly written. There's a meditation on the theme of whether or not there's good in everybody with her character, and we never get to see the endgame for the ideas they were exploring with her. Also, Hater is edgy, he is an edgy teen who wants attention too, that's the core of his character. The "villains" are all like a bunch of edgy kids.
>>84161975
Sure, maybe I'm using the word "edgy" a little too freely, but you're saying that Dominator isn't badly written because she's a bad guy. Every single other bad guy in the show has motivation besides her. That's why she's poorly written. You can't just say "She's the bad guy, that's why she's evil" and say that's good character writing. Sure, they may have developed her later on, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the Dominator we were given, not the Dominator we could have gotten.
There's also the fact that she has such a forced "quirky lonely nerd" personality. Someone who's apparently so lonely and has such nerdy interests wouldn't just want to kill everyone in an entire galaxy for fun.
the dorito
>>84161896
>This doesn't make Dominator's goal any less edgy and stupid. Wanting to kill everyone in the galaxy just for fun is a lazy way to write a villain, even for a silly goofy cartoon.
And I suppose you think Hater's mission to conquer every planet in the galaxy ISN'T ridiculously edgy and over-the-top?
One of the show's basic gags is that its takes all of the larger-than-life personalities and forces of classic science fiction and space opera and reduces them to funny stage play. Hater and Dominator are two sides of the dice, along with Major Threat, the Cube, etc. They're all amusing and endearing abstractions of things that get taken much more seriously in other media. And yes, I find them ALL amusing and endearing.
Your specific fixation on Dominator's motives and appearance boils down to the fact that you fell for the Mary Sue meme, and that her arrival in the show was responsibly for a sudden surge in its popularity. Which I (a) haven't seen a lot of evidence for, (b) don't understand why that's a bad thing. She was well-acted, she had great chemistry on screen with the rest of the gang, her thirst to blow everything up had funny results for the show, and she facilitated Hater's growth.
>>84161931
>He had a personal grudge with him and he wanted to look cool and intimidating.
Are you honestly trying to defend this as a serious motivation for wanting to destroy a kind soul that just wants to be your friend? That's on exactly the same level as "because im the bad guy!", except in Hater's case it's "because I WANT to be the bad guy!". Not that I'm hating on Hater--WoY being what it is, that's the kind of absurdity that I want and expect from it.
>>84157768
Disney.
>>84162294
>>84162040
I'm pretty sure most of r9k would become mass murderers if they had superpowers and army of robots
>>84162040
>On /co/ and not believing a lonely nerd wants to burn the galaxy to cinders.
'k buddy.
>>84161604
BESTHERO__
>>84159420
Dominator was still going to be a side character in Season 3, just without her powers/ship/army.
>>84160965
fuck you im a weasel whose always wanted to be a platypus
also that's a pet, they like to merchandise pets, cute ones too
before GF had Waddles they tried to push the gnomes to be the cute icon for the show
Neither.
>>84159397
Fuck Hirsch, McCracken deserves more than he gets.
>>84157932
>>84158233
>>84159068
>>84158263
>>84158250
>>84161604
>>84161767
>>84162880
Ah lads ya done goofed and heres a chart that proves I'm right and you're wrong
>>84162051
underratedpost
>>84159397
I'm pretty sure he was playing the "i'm cooler than disney" card because i doubt they were begging him
>>84163199
He wanted three seasons or two seasons and a movie. They told him to go fuck himself, he's only getting two seasons
>>84157932
He might be amazing, but his show still isn't worth the hassle.
>>84163199
This, it was a "Disney can't handle me, I'm moving to bigger and better things on Fox, Disney was BEGGING me to stay, but I had to move on, and so did they" cringefest. I remember being around when it was said and everyone was like "yea ok cool" and believing it for whatever fucking reason. Disney doesn't care, they have everything else to mess with.
Honestly I found Bill to be creepier. The overly friendly act he does sometimes reminds me of a dude who'd keep trying to be buddy buddy with you and starts calling you up at 3am for favours. You'd really rather not but you've got a feeling that if you deny him he might flip and kill your cat.
>>84161105
this should be wander twobehonest
Dominator was.
>>84161105
>Disney ends up not giving season 3
>"life's a bitch, toots"
>"haw haw"
>>84161222
Lol wasn't Dr eggman a hero at the end?
>>84163263
That cat was asking for it and you know it, David. Speaking of, I need you to come over here and jump start my car, chop chop.
>>84157932
I don't know why everyone likes this guy so much. He may be intelligent and competent but like Marco said, he's boring.
I think people are projecting way to much onto him with his supposed motivations and backstory. How often do these sorts of things really pan out?
And even if it is all true, he's still not entertaining to watch. Not that any of the other villains on the show were either, but still.
>>84159807
GF did the best they could to make Bill a great evil while keeping it within the censors.
> I've got some children I need to turn into corpses
>>84159021
>He always felt way too mischievous to be the big bad final boss. I was hoping his "friends" would be much more threatening demons who would drag him back to the other realm once they were defeated.
I thought the same thing. Bill seemed more like the doorman for a much bigger threat.
>>84159327
>Except Hades was never supposed to be threatening. He is supposed to be an ineffectual joke character.
Really? Because despite his humorous presentation, he still managed to achieve all of his goals, depower Hercules, unleash the Titans and take over Olympus.
Then when that went south, he still had Meg's soul in his clutches and was gonna screw Herc out of saving her by killing him in the process.
>>84164638
That's not my name you have the wrong guy.
>>84164707
Bill was a gag character when he was first thought up, a joke about Internet conspiracy nuts. But I think that's part of what made him more interesting than the standard cartoon villain at first, a character talking about reality being an illusion and cosmic knowledge is a change of pace, I just wish his plan hadn't turned out to be so by the numbers, I wanted it to be weirder, but that is hard to do.
People are too hard on (durrr hurrr) Lord Dominator because of massive waifufaggotry.
Bill started off as the stronger villain. He was quite unique in his presentation and he reflected the mysterious nature of the show really well. His motivations were cryptic, and it was a breath of fresh air to see something out of a David Lynch film in an otherwise goofy cartoon show with gnomes.
However as the show went on and the mysteries grew less it became readily apparent that Bill really wasn't anything more than a bratty jerk obsessed with vague, generic 'eviiiil' motivations. The worst of it was how all the previous mind-demon stuff was completely scrapped in favor of him growing big and scaway teeth so he could just look cool while failing to kill two fucking children. In the end Bill amounted to little more than a fart in the wind.
Dominator is interesting because she's the opposite. There was no pretense that she wouldn't be anything more than a goofy silly villain who still posed as a threat due to how reckless and overpowered she was. She still didn't feel out of place in the show; she was cartoonish and zany, the perfect villain for a cartoonish and zany world.
Then you get to the last few episodes of the season, and holy shit, it just becomes clear how ROTTEN she is to the core. Ruthlessly tracking down Wander/Sylvia just to personally destroy the flower and see them cry, chasing Wander through the ship, teasing him about killing Sylvia (who she had personally grown to know and almost see as friend, but could barely care enough to remember her name) and the glee she took in just destroying every little thing.
Even at the very end, she remained a hateful punk. A big blow to someone like Wander, who genuinely thought anyone could turn around.Fucking SU take note
>>84164846
But Bill is guilty of massive husbandofaggotry
>>84165814
But only the Japanese fans are guilty of doing that.
>>84157768
Japan's RoriBiru-chan is the best villain.
>>84161688
>I guess. Hater is a character who acts human; Dominator can barely be called a character with how two-dimensional she is.
That's what a foil is though, she serves as a contrast to Hater. Hater is edgy, but there are things he won't do, and there are things worth saving. Dominator takes the game he's playing to its logical conclusion and it's not a pretty place to be.
>>84162902
im sure mister cracken already got a humble amount of success from working on CN cartoons
but nobody deserves that reboot
>>84159327
Bill and Hades were supposed to be equally threatening. They're both comedic, fast-talking swindler Satans.
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/wzFCXqa.png "latest[1].png")
>>84168268
lol wat
Dominator's not even a villain, she's just Hater 2.0. He's only evil because he's incredibly insecure and she's only evil because she's incredibly lonely.
At the end of season 2 she even has a Hater-like meltdown and starts acting more animated and silly.
They were clearly planning a similar arc for Dominator for season 3 before they got shitcanned
NowDr Screwball Jones, THAT'S a powerful villain who's evil to the core!
>>84157768
Bill wasn't threataning enough. He shouldve done more fucked up shit the characters disnt try to laugh off.
>>84167742
Ha yeah right
>>84168483
Would Screwball or Major Threat have befriended Dominator?
>>84168771
Jeff will befriend anyone now because he's an OG.
>>84165042
Bill probably had more potential than Dominator that was then squandered but then Dominator's potential was squandered too since her show was cancelled.
>>84168477
Hades was infinitely more scary, though.
Maybe has something to do with being voiced by James Woods who has actual charisma instead of a hack who does a bad David Lynch impersonation.
>>84168549
>Bill wasn't threataning enough. He shouldve done more fucked up shit the characters disnt try to laugh off.
I think the few moments where they allowed this to happen were pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7CLGptWhnA
>>84168881
Meant "impression"Goddamnit. One of these days I'm gonna stop sleeping 3 hours a day.
>>84158737
>What is with /co/ rating cartoon villains by threat level above all else?
You will never open a cape comic threads where people say doomsday and crocodile are better villains than Dr.Freeze and lex luthor because they are more dangerous.
>>84168881
I like Hadoes but I don't think I ever thought he was "scary" either even as a little kid, mostly I felt bad for him. Zeus sticks him with a shitty job and then laughs about it and him having to work hard while Zeus parties it up. What an asshole.
>>84158186
>He thinks toffee is going to return in Season 2
>>84169025
I don't think he's all that scary either, just scarier than Bill, which is a pretty low bar.
>>84168854
>we will never get to watch Wander try to save Bill from himself
>>84164682
>I don't know why everyone likes this guy so much. He may be intelligent and competent but like Marco said, he's boring.
I post this all over, but I'll do it again.
Toffee is a great villain because of his thematic relationship with Star. The majority of season one is all Star playing around on Earth. Ludo is ostensibly the "main villain", but he's impossible to take seriously. Star treats him more like a toy or a playmate than anything else, to the point she actively enjoys him showing up.
So we have Star essentially throwing her toys around for a season, then Toffee shows up and all of a sudden Star is reminded how big her responsibilities are. Her usual charge in, shock and awe tactics don't work.
And here's the kicker: HE WINS. Star is left kinda shell-shocked by the end of the season, and she's just now starting to realize she's going to have to grow up a bit and be more responsible.
tl;dr, Toffee is an adult facing a child in a real world sense, not a cartoon sense, where all the quirkiness of a kid can't really stand up to a competent guy who thinks more than two seconds ahead.
>>84161306
Are you talking about Dom and Hater or are there actually people who want to fuck Bill?
>>84169296
Thousands, you don't know about the Bill fangirls/fags? Most of the fanfiction of the series is Bill porn and if you're not careful on youtube you might stumble on NSFW whole videos of drawn Bill porn as I learned to my horror. Actually while it's probably just because the show is more popular overall there's more Bill porn than Dominator and Hater porn combined.
As a counterpoint to this thread's criticisms may I offer: dem hips, dem tits, dat belly, dat ass.
Reminder that Bill and YV had a baby
>>84169296
>>84169025
Yeah, even in Greek mythologhy Proper Hades got fucked over.
and then aphrodite's bitch ass cursed him with the ability to love and led to him kidnapping Persephone
>>84169532
>>84169475
they should have used protection
>>84169296
even aside from all the japanese and u.s. porn russia has a fan club with like 25,000 people dedicated just to bill and dipper fucking and china has one, too
>>84157768
Bill in droves, Lord Dominator(seriously what the fuck is up with that name) was a HURR I LOVES TO SEE PEOPLE SCREAMING generic psychopath.
Bill was just batshit crazy but a schemer.
>>84169461
>>84161931
Hater also stopped wanting to kill him for real after some time. It's debatable when it actually started but the result was that he couldn't even shoot him from an almost point-blank range in the shorts. Dominator wanted to kill for fun till the very end and she never developed that love-hate towards Wander or anyone else like Hater did.
I don't even really hate her, but I always felt like her resemblance to Hater wasn't anything but superficial, just as her Hater rip-off of a costume.
>>84164682
>but like Marco said, he's boring.
For you, maybe. I find his cold emotionless demeanor creepier than Bill's or Dominator's personality.
He feels like a slightly less evil and sociopathic Katz from Courage the Cowardly Dog.
>>84157768
Well because Neil Cicierega never got to use his Bill song, Dominator had the better Disney villain song.
Maybe the better instrumental theme, though you compare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xABxQjilIJ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj-RpJm82QU
>>84169779
I think I have to wait and see with Toffee to see what his deal is. The lack of substantial bad guys was my big problem with SvtFoE so a good villain would help it a lot. Here's hoping.
>>84157768
They're not a patch on Azula from AtLA. That goes without saying.
But the better question is: who would win in a fight?
>>84170226
>Azula
>good
>>84162925
According to your graph; lord hater would be high tier; he's obviously compensating for some child issues.
Also, Dominator and Bill both fall into the shit tier or meh tier at best.
>>84160942
But Gravity Falls and Star Vs are both lacking the merchandise department as well.
>>84170226
Azula was a shitty Villain Sue that only ever won because the plot was on her side.
>>84170299
Star at least is getting a short comic line and a book in the future, and GF has had those figures and some books too.
Does Wander have anything?
>>84162051
Peridot?
>>84169461
Not all of us are niggers who do all their thinking with their dick.
>>84157935
>Jasper
>>84170449
sure, why not?
>>84170284
Honestly unsure about Bill. Loads of people here like to sum it up as 'his goal was generic world domination' but his core goal was absolute freedom. Brought about from perceived misdeeds against him, we unfortunately don't know much about his backstory other than it being a very controlling society but if it really is Flatland like it was hinted then I'd say he would hit high tier.
>>84170330
>Azula
>Sue
>character that goes bonkers and winds up howling at the moon like a rabid animal
>Mary Sue
It's like words have no meaning.
Toffee is way more of a Mary Sue than Azula and with absolutely zero depth, unlike her. He is Light Yagami levels of ludicrous "just as planned" just because muh plot says so.
>>84160749
I thought the problem with Disney and TV animation simply had to do with the fact that somehow, their live action kidcoms always outdated their animated shows.
>>84171033
I'm 100% behind Bill if he's really from Flatland. Those humorless Victorian caste-system assholes deserved to die and if you raise triangles to be your warrior caste but then treat them like shit and walk all over them you shouldn't be surprised when one goes crazy and violent.
Also they execute people who just realize the truth of the Universe and are able to perceive more, and literally try to keep everyone stupid. It's no wonder that if Bill has his perspective widened like A. Square and began to explore the cosmos only to get smacked down or for them to try to kill him for knowing and understanding too much that he would develop a disdain for rules.
Sadly this was only hinted at on the show and the AMA.
>>84170284
Why do you even respond? That chart is nothing but shitposting tool anyway.
>>84169610
>seriously what the fuck is up with that name
Rhymes with Hater
>HURR I LOVES TO SEE PEOPLE SCREAMING generic psychopath.
Literally Bill during the finale. He flat out says that. At least Dominator wasn't meant to be anything but that; Bill had potential that was completely shat on.
>>84170362
Maybe we will get a WOY comic someday. I really hope so. It deserves at least that much. I'm really sad I didn't discover it earlier, they did a really bad job getting word out about it.
>>84160791
Waifufags of course ignored this factual post
>>84171234
They should have explored all the multiple dimensions and knowledge stuff or done more mind demon, Bill as just a big scary monster looks cool but is boring.
Dominator was pretty much what it says on the tin with maybe a tiny window to have more depth in the last episode that they could have gone into if the show hadn't been cancelled.
>>84169006
>thinking it's a power-level thing
As expected of capefags.
I still cant believe how fucking high lord haters power level was.
>>84171046
>unlike her
She was just a dumb annoying cunt with parent issues. That's hardly depth.
There is nothing about her that makes her a godo villain.
>>84171142
Not even from knowing the truth, A Square was lucky to be a square Bill would have been classed as an undesirable just for being an intelligent triangle. They didn't want them triangles getting any ideas about rebellion.
>>84161402
R.I.P.
;_;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXyEllQL-oY
Dammit I'm crying.
The best villain has been crowned
>>84162925
I've always thought that chart was bullshit. A misunderstood villain is not inherently better that a villain that's just straight up evil. I've seen good and shit examples in both categories and it ultimately just comes down to how well the character is written.
>>84171326
>Waifufags of course ignored this factual post
But anon, Bill is my waifu.
>>84171823
It's a troll chart. There's no one factor that makes a character good or bad.
>>84171817
Dominator should be high tier, she only does bad things because people didn't like her donut steel OC.
>>84171817
Get me more throwing chairs
>>84160653
Should've pitched the H.A.T.E.R.V. Bitches love the H.A.T.E.R.V.
>>84160791
True, but Bill is still worse due to the fact that Bill still lost out of sheer plot convenience. It was constantly implied that Hater was stronger than Dominator, he's just an idiot without motivation. Bill was hyped up to be a manipulative elder god only to act like a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain because the writers wrote themselves into a hole.
>>84171046
What about Toffee's plans were ridiculous?
He knew Ludi mustreated his dumb minsters, so he presented himself as a competent altertive.
Buff Frog was onto him, so he got rid of him.
From there it was a matter of waiting until Ludi pissed off his monsters enough to form a coup.
He knew Star was a headstrong child (iit's why she was banished) who can't do much more than throw magic around so all he had to do was grab Marco and wait fir Star to charge in head first.
>>84161022
>but in the end she couldn't be helped and action was the only way to beat her
But he wasn't wrong. It was implied that she can be redeemed, she just needs to lose it all first so she can grasp the basic concepts of friendship better.
>>84161235
But in WoY there was an actual purpose to it. It wasn't just to handwave it away, it was to show how wounds can heal. Dominator was like a forest fire. Yeah everything's burned to the ground, but that doesn't mean things wont regrow and get better eventually.
>>84159021
>He always felt way too mischievous to be the big bad final boss
I always thought because he was the big bag final boss there was no one to compete with so he became mischiveous. He really like to play around and mess with people, but when it came down to the last episode he was pretty freaky to me.
>>84170284
>>84171823
Saddam a best villain
Where's that comic about Lord Dominator's Secret Origin? That was great.
>>84162118
>(b) don't understand why that's a bad thing.
Me either, if the Domfags had really been enough to save the show I'd have thanked them for it honestly.
>>84171817
literal who in elder god tier
>>84167742
It happens here too the Asians are just so much cuter in their Billfaggotry though. I want to drown in their adorable nip & Korean Bill merchandise.
That reminds me I really miss Dominica.
Where is all my cute Lord Dominator fan art?
>>84174459
I only ever see cute Hater fanart.
>>84174815
Hater is cute too but so is Dom.
Weird how people think that because the characters are at odds you can't like both.
>>84174918
I think she's too OP and bitchy to be popular the way the others are. All of the four mains have something kinda adorable about them, but Dom is alone, she doesn't really interact with others aside from that Silvia episode maybe. I even like Dom, at least as a competent enemy (Hater already lost his shit in episode 1), but I don't wonder that there isn't that much cute fanart about her.
>>84175722
She seems like the breakout character in some places and the waifu threads of her here have tons of fan art. I don't mind it. She's not a main character like the core four are though, no.
>>84171142
>Flatland
>triangles are oppressed by the evil circle theocracy
>So Bill, a triangle, destroys Flatland
Is Bill an angry SJW?
>>84175841
Of course not, Bill actually did something to change it.
>>84170226
>>84170245
>>84170330
>>84171046
>>84171602
Alright this shit needs to stop now. Azula is not a villain nor was she crazy. The whole point of the show was to show consequences of the past and how it can affect the future for that reason Ozai was the villain. Azula was a victim caught up in the mess like the rest of the cast.
>>84171673
I fucking loved that episode.
>>84177265
That scene is seriously heartbreaking.
>>84177240
Scrapper pls. Azula is most certainly a villain, she almost killed the avatar for fucks sake. She's just not the main villain.
>>84178651
I'm not Scrapper, but Azula is not a villain. Everything she did was to get love from her father because her deadbeat mother and jerkass brother were more focused on themselves than try to help her out.
>>84161381
Hater has a better design, is a more three-dimensional character in terms of thoughts and motivations, and most importantly - he's funny.
>>84178954
That would make her tragic, but I don't see how that wouldn't make her a villain.
>>84159342
>>84159344
>>84160002
>>84162925Deal with it.
>All these anons using "How threatening?" as the sole deciding factor of a villain's quality
>>84179072
A villain is defined as character who is evil actions to move the plot, Azula is by no definitions evil as shown in her disdain of her perception of herself. In fact in the comics she is slowly redeeming herself by accepting her love for Zuko and wished him to be a strong fire lord. This is proof that she is not evil.
