Good evening owls of /co/,
what are the sex dungeon odds for tonight
>>84127740
so can we talk about how exactly we all fucking called the leaked-by-Marvel-today Cap twist?
>>84127740
Well we know what's happening with Steve Cap now and nobody here is surprised
>>84127757
Honestly, I was convinced it was mind control, I didn't call Cosmic Cube.
>>84127770
I know, right?
And now the WE ARE SO MAD people are mainly taking the "YOUR TWIST WAS SHITTY" tack, which has very little to do with the particular moral outrage that they were high on.
>>84127740
Hello Storyteller.
>>84127757
>>84127770
What happened? Was it indeed a bad pun the whole time?
>>84127757
i want so much backtracking and "We were wrong" but no one is gonna do it. it's almost like issue 1 was only a fraction of the story!
standing by Zemo also being fucked by the Cube.
>>84127805
the particular tone and style of the flashback pages reeked of Cosmic Cube alteration shenanigans, to me
>>84127819
Citizen Zemo on AIMvengers fucking when
>>84127757
anybody with two brain cells to rub together called it, to be fair
I am slightly disappointed that they set up that cliffhanger deliberately to cause a shitload of controversy and then immediately revealed it as a ruse in the preview of the next issue instead of at least dragging out for a bit
>>84127833
it's better than where we are with Aaron and Unworthy Thor, at least
I feel kind of shitty tonight still, so let's see how long we make it; may go out for a walk while it's still light
>>84127850
there's an interview about the Flintstones on Comicosity, and the book looks so good, honestly
>>84127860
Fred is 100% bara husbando material
>>84127808
JACK KIRBY WOULD BE SO MAD AT USING THE COSMIC CUBE LIKE THAT!
i'm so fucking mad at not enough crow eating
how long until they yell about spencer endangering kids or something with Kobik?
>>84127831
it makes the most sense. c'moooooooooon sunspot Keikaku.
i'm worried and accepted that he'll be in T-Bolts tho
>>84127850
Unworthy Thor stuff has been a cluster from like marketing and other shit, been bitching from the start about how the weakest stuff was the mystery junk. in the book he clearly is focused on Thor's current stuff.
>>84127873
i liked that the couple seemed of equal attractiveness and not sitcom couple
>>84127860
I hope it's good cause then Wacky Raceland would be the worst at just an "okay I guess".
Oh and apparently that's a 6 issue mini now, going off of the last solicits, so I'm guessing #1 sold so bad and they learned from DCYou to not keep shitting selling books alive.
![Nice+things_67a7b2_4620884[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GFh3IdS.jpg "Nice+things_67a7b2_4620884[1].jpg")
>>84127831
>Citizen Zemo on AIMvengers fucking when
Never. Pic related.
>>84127873
Oh, something just popped up on my twitter feed of interest, starting to link here
https://twitter.com/theseantcollins/status/747938750848704513
>>84127898
right, Fred being less comical breaks the usual schlubby dude/sexy wife sitcom thing.
>>84127850
>they literally surf on sword-shaped hoverboards
>>84127860
>>84127873
I can't believe how much I'm looking forward to a Flintstones book
well done DC
>>84127988
i freaking love the 2099 universe.
NOT MUH FOOLKILLER @ the latest Marvel teaser btw. very disappoint
>>84127983
i remember the period i tried to follow the guy he's talking about....
>>84128000
trips confirm that Mark Russell is good
in the interview he's all "This election got even weirder than our satire"
>>84128018
I kind of want to see his academic Wonder Woman book, but lol academic book prices
>>84127983
>>84128018
i also saw stc tweet about the worst take he ever saw today, i had assumed GoT and rl politics something but now i'm not so sure
>>84128036
so ready for Prez Term 2
>>84127873
>Fred is 100% bara husbando material
This is beyond my depravity limit, the Flintstones are not for sexual.
>>84127873
Never thought I'd see the day
>SP: Well, again, I took the lead from Mark. He didn’t want Fred to be the overweight buffoon type that he could have gone toward. He wanted him to be a big guy. He was in the army, and yeah, he’s gone a little bit to seed. But he’s a construction worker. He’s going to be built. He’s going to be large.
>He’s sort of a slab of a guy who’s a good dad and a good husband. He’s just a good, solid bloke. He had to physically imposing. Fred’s a big guy, whose size doesn’t necessarily reflect his influence on the world he lives in. That’s a nice dichotomy.
>>84127898
>JACK KIRBY WOULD BE SO MAD AT USING THE COSMIC CUBE LIKE THAT!
I doubt it. Kirby only cared about the story he was telling at any given time, he didn't like doing covers or inking
>>84128036
This has been a crazy year for politics.
>>84128089
I am so completely here for the kind of melancholy about human civilization that seems to be the tone for the book.
>>84128071
>I kind of want to see his academic Wonder Woman book, but lol academic book prices
What does 'academic' mean in this context? Presumably it has nothing to do with a hypothetical Paradise Academy.
>>84128083
I dunno, Wilma and Betty are pretty hot.
>>84128018
Man why even use Foolkiller if you're going to ruin it. Fools need killing.
>>84128169
University press, scholarly treatment of some Marston material and the bondage theme.
Fearmaster's fashion is 100% a highlight of this book for me
>>84128071
>google out of curiosity.
>20$ kindle version
yeesh.
also man nothing bugs me like "well this thing from 1920s has racist things in it so it's worthless" like, my man, do you want to limit yourself to post-2000 works. like get in the dirt, let's try and analyze some Leni Riefenstahl.
like when Princeton got all mad about Woodrow Wilson's stuff at their school cause he was racist, i was terrified that some University of Virginia kids were gonna look up their school history.straight cis white guy disclaimer
>>84128226
The notion that sanitization and censorship produce a healthier intellectual climate is a shaky one. And a lot of this virtue-signalling criticism, ugh. Just piss on it.
>>84128071
Didn't he only have enough power to execute a prisoner once a month?
>>84127740
After last night I figure hell go full FRANK, so not very good.
>>84127757
I'm just so tired of Marvel trying to up the anger every time, for everything. Instead of "There's an interesting story here, keep watching", they go "This is the real deal folks! Hydra Cap! Nothing will ever be the same! Peter Parker is dead forever!" Instead of being assholes and lying blatantly or whatever, just say you've got interesting things down the line.
>>84128134
>Looking more like a Jigsaw than a human being...
Bravo.
>>84128303
That's comic books, though
>>84127860
Not looking forward to those minority allegories though.
That never ends well.
>>84128226
I can understand renaming Calhoun College at Yale (which he had absolutely no connection to), but Woody Woo was deeply involved with Princeton.
Howdy guys, been awhile since I got to read along. How's the last week been treating you?
>>84128347
Horrocks had a piece about fandom I found very strong from her separation of art/artist POV (which she defended on twitter and took some shit for but did it cow her, no, because she knows what she thinks):
https://mercurialblonde.wordpress.com/2016/06/05/fans-are-the-worst-an-article/
> You stop seeing Nick Spencer as someone’s son, as someone’s friend, as a human being–but you also don’t respect him as an artist, and allow his art to breathe out and exist in all of its flaws without the need for repercussions. Because there is no difference between the pain he causes you as a man, and the pain his art causes you. You’ve lost discernment.
>>84128387
it rained! but I am super-twitchy and still congested
>>84128426
The stuff in there about not defining yourself by an investment in a flawed, human artist who you know primarily by the medium of their art, that's good
>>84128214
>University press, scholarly treatment of some Marston material and the bondage theme.
Ah. Honestly though, not sure why people seem to think the bondage stuff is something to be given critical analysis. Personally, I would think the idea that a high ranking member of a society of sword-wielding hippies feels unconditional love for literally every person in existence would be a little more worthy of study.
>>84128303
My favorite part is seeing Spencer's twitter at the time (when he's not making fun of everyone who isn't a Hillary supporter), is where he makes fun of everyone who didn't like the twist, made fun of the people who said the twist was bullshit, and with the reveal that the twist WAS just a cosmic cube, he then started making fun of THOSE people.
>>84128347
yeah, i generally get it and am down for renaming stuff that racist's names are on (Lotta fucking Nathan Bedford Forrest and confederate veteran shit around here) but like dude was a president and super important to the institution. this is a leave it and teach thing.
i wonder if they still/ever played up the Burr connections.
>>84128426
>separation of art/artist
yeah twitter and stuff is making this even more of a thing. because now we can both dehumanize them and yell in their face
>>84128426
It literally just started raining bullets in Fort Worth, what the hell
>>84128387
Found a bunch of Dr. Slump scans, ruined my sleeping schedule.
>>84128426
Horrocks has these glorious opinions on art that I'm sure many people feel are outdated but she'll fucking burn for them and it's great.
>>84128387
I'm feeling a little periody
how are you anon
>>84128465
some people need to just not be on twitter
>>84128465
the best stuff has been poor Brubaker dealing with it.
>>84128458
Wasn't Marston like super into it? i figured it was a author's life in his work thing
>>84128465
That dude has a terminal case of smug, for anything and everything.
Which, to be fair, isn't uncommon in a lot of big 2 circles.
>>84128465
Bless his heart.
>>84128483
>we can both dehumanize them and yell in their face
that's a good way of putting it. Lemme also link to this discussion, because it's really, really on the button with the later Bitch Planet article:
https://mercurialblonde.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/respect-the-elements-thoughts-on-cosplay-fandom-and-art/
>And what’s interesting to me from a marketing standpoint is that even though she is coming from the side of a corporately owned character that she has little personal financial interest in, she recognizes an ability to short circuit the relationship between fan and corporation, through her role as writer-priest. People don’t send the Marvel tumblr their Captain Marvel cosplay pictures, they send them to Kelly Sue, and she posts them up for the larger community to interact with.
>>84128530
I dunno, the other people I follow (FabNic, Lieber, and Johns) don't seem like smug twats.
>>84127831
Now all we need are 2099 versions of the Russian and Barracuda.
>>84128387
It was going pretty good until today. Thanks to a leak, I now have a lovely hole in my bedroom ceiling, and a deep bedspring induced scratch in my wrist. So, y'know. Little miffed.
>>84128501
I have to watch the sub anime since viz Dr slump translation is not that great.
>>84128089
FOOOOR YOOOOUUUUU
>>84128562
I want a 2099 Cable who turns out to have really outdated tech, and also was just totally wrong about the future.
>>84128507
I've said it before, but I like reading her because she's so strong and clear about what she wants and how she reads, so I get both opinions and a methodology as well as a close reading. I don't have the same sublime-chasing inclinations, but I like reading someone who does.
>>84128606
JAKE CARES
>>84128426
These crits are easier to take of fandom when creator circles don't present and act like they themselves are infallible beings and everyone criticizing them are dipshits. Demanding everyone buy their books, but never to engage critically or negatively. There's outright bad fan response, absolutely, but the way people like Spencer, Brevoort, and plenty of others sweep everything into the same generalization of fans, mock them, and then get confused when they get upset, it's so weird to watch in action.
Kieron Gillen mentioned he should do a "social media for creators 101" kind of thing because a lot of these folks have no preparation for this stuff, and tend to default to being an asshole, then double down on being an asshole. Remender's meltdown and then petty audience shots in his comic itself comes to mind.
Audience has to understand that creators are people too, but also, creators need to... stop being fucking assholes and expecting people to just accept it? Or expecting nothing but blind praise.
>>84128634
I am not sure Gillen's "social media for creators 101" would address that specific flaw, to be fair.
>>84128554
Who else is good at that kinda thing? Gillen, Team Batgirl, ???
I really like Bitch Planet b4 it disappeared into Image scheduling
>>84128634
that's kind of funny considering how smug Gillen was with tumblr fandom during JiM and then how he and McKelvie both ran away hard from YA fandom.
The compelling line in Horrocks, for me, is the question of what you can do as a fan to not fall into these negative traps that will eat your soul.
>>84128558
They're alright, and I've noticed DC, for whatever reason, has less trouble keeping their writers reigned in online - or they're just less assholes in general. Marvel's corporate attitude and the "make 'em mad" initiative certainly seems to give a lax feeling around "don't be a dickhead online, maybe".
But boy, nobody at Marvel seems to have ever told Dan Slott he's not a fanboy posting on CBR anymore, he's a professional writer, and he needs to stop retweeting people who didn't even @ him into his account.
>>84128634
>Audience has to understand that creators are people too, but also, creators need to... stop being fucking assholes and expecting people to just accept it? Or expecting nothing but blind praise.
It goes both ways, I figure. Sure there's trolls, but that aside, most critical fans are still just people. The best way for me to immediately stop giving a shit about what a creator is saying is when they start referring to dissidents as "randos".
>>84128705
>>84128501
The amount of really nice manga scans lately has been great, I used to read on all those sites manga fans use but hi res comic scans spoiled me.
>>84128513
Sorry to hear that, anon. Hope it passes soon.
I've been having an amazing week, thanks for asking. Miss these daily discussions, I don't have any comic reading friends, you see.
If you're in stormy areas stay safe, otherwise hope you guys have a peaceful night.
>>84128705
It's a fair question. I'd just like to see the same asked of creators by creators.
Interaction isn't a one way street, even though people like Bendis desperately wish it was.
>>84128634
Audience reactions are like Yelp reviews. You gotta filter out the obvious trolls, then listen to those who are actually criticizing you and consider their input.
>>84128514
>Wasn't Marston like super into it? i figured it was a author's life in his work thing
Yes, but it's been discussed to death and has almost nothing to do with the character herself.
>>84128562
>Barracuda
mah mutha-shockin' decred
>>84128746
I'd love to read that, yeah. "How to write things and not get obsessed with criticism and not to take it personally/how to disentangle your self-worth from it all"
So much criticism these days makes that smart pivot from thing to person that it's probably hard to not take! it! personally! as the old forms would say
>>84128791
>>84128804
HE'S MADE OF HATE
>>84128705
>The compelling line in Horrocks, for me, is the question of what you can do as a fan to not fall into these negative traps that will eat your soul.
To be honest - with that self-evasive personality trap stuff - I think it's quite difficult to draw a line between idolizing a character and idolizing a creator. Horrocks talks about seeing Nick Spencer as a human, but she also mentions churches pulling the same trick. That kind of self-destructive fan obsession (which I'm sure many, many, many people on /co/ partake in) can easily apply to a character over a creator, or any other real person. It's less real harm to a person, but probably no less self-damaging.
>>84128826
This guy is kind of Mean Machine DESU
>>84128845
this bit in the cosplay article
>No, what I dig is this second paragraph “I am not Captain Marvel, Captain Marvel is not me and I do not presume to speak for the Carol Corps. However, as the book’s current writer”–the front part of that speaks directly to the weird thing in comics where the writer of a comic is in some way seen by fans as wearing the skin of that character, and being a touchable medium for that interaction with favorite character. And this is explicit about that relationship linguistically. I am not God, I do not speak for God, but as his Priest you can tell me, and I’ll tell him–type of relationship.
That's fascinating and yet that is such a setup for an unhealthy relationship
So the Birds of Prey Rebirth preview dropped.
Anyone else wondering why in the flying hell Barbara can't be both Batgirl AND Oracle? If you think about it, neither persona necessarily excludes the other.
>>84128706
>But boy, nobody at Marvel seems to have ever told Dan Slott he's not a fanboy posting on CBR anymore
Agreed
>>84128921
Slott strikes me as someone who badly needs a life/hobbies outside of comics
>>84128921
When was that posted? Because I'd believe he's told a lot of his fans to go fuck themselves sense.
>>84128982
His identity is wrapped up in what he writes to an unhealthy degree, that's where the grepping himself/related terms on Twitter comes from
>>84128880
Can you ever avoid that outside of personal responsibility though? Because vicarious enjoyment is a thing you're never going to kill, and this is really just the (an) extreme end of that. How do you get people to stop over-investing themselves in things beyond making everyone perfectly contented with their life?
As an aside, there's also room I think for a discussion about how in comics fan behaviour/self-projection bleeds into the creator side of things. Like a comic fan can go from as a kid projecting themselves onto a character to as an adult projecting themselves onto the creatives working on that character without it getting any more adult and healthy. Because it's a fan-run industry, but also because it's adolescent and it indulges adolescence (inb4 that C.S. Lewis quote gets thrown at me).
>>84128985
2010
Sadly the post has been deleted by moderators. But Bleeding Cool believed it was worth preserving…
>>84128921
As if I needed further confirmation that the guy's a complete manchild.
This seem bullshit to you guys?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/28/a-tale-of-two-exclusive-contracts-marvel-and-dc-comics/
I'm pretty sure anyone that has an exclusive contract is salaried.
>>84128921
>this guy will write Spider man until he dies or sales fall a lot and don't come back up
>>84127808
>"YOUR TWIST WAS SHITTY" tack
Can the people who were angry over that, knowing that it was either Red Onslaught false memories or Cosmic Cube shenanigans, still be irritated?
It's still a pretty lame twist.
>>84127831
>the particular tone and style of the flashback pages reeked of Cosmic Cube alteration shenanigans, to me
Can we also blame the bad art in Tbolts on the cube? Does Hydra like Liefeld?
>>84128791
It's a lot of hard feelings on both ends. Fans running into "hey did you consider that this way you handled your gay characters doesn't look great" and getting "fuck off, troll", and creators getting things that - whether they should or not, they just tend to - send them to full on defensive mode.
Talking about criticism of handling of minority characters is especially tricky, because you're walking on tacks to try to explain the problem without them jumping to "Are you saying I'm a bigot?" I've only see a couple keep their cool, like the Batgirl team after that one issue.
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing, every time. Did the fans go aggro first, or the creator? One of those times where who started it does matter, because it sets the tone of the conversation.
Part of the problem is that companies also expect fan rage on... really stupid shit. Little costume changes, or very tiny plot inconsistencies. I feel like they react to serious criticism the same way they do to that.
I think some cracks are starting to show with CWII, though, as Bendis and Brevoort are really getting it, both internally and externally from people on their writing and editing.
>>84128921
Dan, they're using that love of a single character to exploit you for cheap labor while you're whittling yourself down into an increasingly tired online ball of rage.
Like god, that dude needs some hobbies and a vacation, with some anger management on the side.
>>84128905
Because they want to push Babsgirl.
It's too late to go back, might as well make it into a legacy role and let someone do it full time.
>>84129046
I could believe both. There's no reason to think that the contracts in the comics industry are a particularly good deal. Evidence is generally to the contrary. Do I believe them from bleedingcool? Eh. Also, the contracts are unlikely to be uniform across the board.
>>84129046
I have always heard that DC (and probably Marvel too) pay for unused art ?
OP IS A FAGGOT!!!!!!!!
HAIL HITLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>84127831
A horse legged cyborg with a gorilla arm and a toyetic chest energy gauge I think probably outclasses 616 Jigsaw's deal. Just an across the board upgrade really.
>>84129017
I think the only way to avoid it is to do the kind of self-examination wherein you say "What am I getting out of this, but what am I putting in in order to get out what I am". A second-order look at your own fandom, yo.
Writers/artists have to ask the same question.
>>84129100
missed you, baby
>>84129100
Don't you mean Hail Hydra?
>>84129100
It's heil, dummy.
>>84129130
>>84129053
yes, it's a yawn-worthy twist--I'm more interested in the moral outrage components of the protest. "You're an anti-semite for writing this" is a different valence than "you're an unimaginative hack"
>>84129081
>Because they want to push Babsgirl.
Well yes, but she could still stay interesting while they do so. The most notable thing Babs has done since she got rebooted has been taking selfies, which she is still fucking doing in the new BoP by the way. Ugh.
>It's too late to go back
Isn't she still a computorz expert though? She still has her IT skills, so she could still be the Shadow Broker.
>>84129136
Heil is German for hail, so he's technically correct. Also, it's "my leader" not "mein führer".
>>84127898
>i liked that the couple seemed of equal attractiveness and not sitcom couple
B-but >not muh Honeymooners ripoff
>>84129181
>>84129081
Absolutely. And there's a lot to be said for people being able to say "This is honestly offensive and this is why" without being counter-trolled into oblivion.
>>84129182
Dude, they can't even fit in a supporting cast into Batgirl that have half a personality anymore, you aren't gonna get "juggle two identities" Barbara.
>>84129218
Probably the biggest example of this was when Mark Waid was taken to task for Strange Fruit. Everything was explained, the critic detailed everything, historical stuff, modern stuff, lots of things about "Maybe you aren't the right people to write this". They even talked about it on twitter. The argument was thorough, considered, and compelling.
That dude didn't learn shit though.
Why do all of you care so much about Oracle? Are you guys suffering from muh syndrome? She was such a shit character under Dixon and Simone and every other writer used her as a fucking plot device or melodramatic hangar. Only guy that wrote him well was Ostrander.
>>84129252
Is that still happening, or did it die a quiet death?
>>84129275
>>84129271
We literally just read Suicide Squad.
>>84129252
I tune out whenever someone says a certain kind of person can't write about a certain kind of subject. That's not a criticism worth considering.
>>84129275
It's still going. It took a delay for... reasons I can't remember, but the followup issue after that first didn't seem to take any of the criticism to the heart. A sort of "Thank you, but we're going to do things exactly the same. Now, to kill off Rhodey."
I can only imagine fans getting more frustrated when they see that people in the business won't even listen to their fellow writers on these issues.
>>84129288
>>84127983
>Harras-ment
I only have one issue of Bloodlines and I honestly have no idea if that story is good or not.
Newstand collecting is a inideal way to collect comics.
Marvel UK may be the most 90s thing in the entire 90s. Look at those goddamn titles. It's like a goddamn Image imprint.
Adapting Meteor Man into the Marvel Universe seems like a weird goddamned decision.
>>84129271
It was a better and more unique direction for the character, especially when Stephanie filled her role of Batgirl perfectly and there was no reason to go backwards.
It's the same reason why Grayson was so beloved and why it's a bit of a disappointment for him to go backwards to being unblind Daredevil.
>>84129320
>>84128036
>in the interview he's all "This election got even weirder than our satire"
The real world has murdered political satire.
It's like reality found out Jon Stewart was retiring and is playing the greatest political hits of the 1930s to make him regret it.
>>84129252
>Dude, they can't even fit in a supporting cast into Batgirl that have half a personality anymore, you aren't gonna get "juggle two identities" Barbara.
Ah, and once again it comes down to the death of supporting casts. It can't even be the attempt to make comics more "cinematic", some of the best movies have a ton of enjoyable supporting characters.
In any case, without her tech skills being a major aspect, Barbara's just a dull character.
>>84129271
>Only guy that wrote him well was Ostrander.
Which we all literally just finished reading.
>>84129315
Hmmm. It's frustrating to see valid critique ignored, and yet it's always writer/artist/whatever prerogative to ignore it. And then it's audience prerogative to nope on out.
>>84129345
You can go back even further than 1930 for Europe.
>>84129360
>>84129271
>melodramatic hangar
When was Oracle a place where aircraft was stored?
>Only guy that wrote him well was Ostrander.
When was Oracle a man? What comics have you been reading?
>>84129314
That's a good point, but there's also a point where a writer should ask themselves "do I know enough about this subject to properly portray it? Do I have anything interesting to say about this that relates to my own perspective? If this is a touchy and controversial subject, do I have the writing talent to convey my perspective effectively?"
>>84129360
Everyone has the prerogative to ignore everyone else, then, so long as they accept they too can be ignored.GG UK
>>84129252
>Dude, they can't even fit in a supporting cast into Batgirl that have half a personality anymore, you aren't gonna get "juggle two identities" Barbara.
Most books don't have supporting casts anymore. I'm reading the Power Man & Iron Fist storytimes, which have the main two, their love interests, another best friend, and a bunch of recurring characters aside.
The new one? Just has the two, and basically everyone else is a recurring character.
>>84128083
>the Flintstones are not for sexual.
Did you miss when JAB! made an internet cartoon porn empire on fatbottomed Flintstones women?
>>84129314
Put it this way: Mark Waid can write about racism, but the POV he chooses, the points of history he chooses, the way he wishes to frame it and focus on it, this all matters. Mark Waid probably should, if he wants to write a story all about racism as a foundational thing, prrrrrobably shouldn't write from a Civil Rights Movement perspective with a focus on a black set of characters but hardly giving them anything in comparison to the white characters, falling off the "white dude writes about racism" tree and hitting every branch on the way down, such as things like The Help.
There's a difference between "can't" and "probably shouldn't". Mark Waid absolutely CAN write about these subjects, and even in whatever way he wants.
He probably SHOULD be more self-aware and considerate of the story and character and perspective choices he makes.
Most critics I've seen don't argue actually that "You can't" but "You shouldn"t and "If you're going to, fucking talk to people who actually live this?"
Like a lapsed christian dude writing a story all about Islamic faith and going off shit he learned from USAToday. He CAN, but he probably SHOULDN'T. And if he's gonna, he should research, and actually talk to people.
An amazing amount of writers don't feel like they should research, or talk to people, about very real stuff, even when it's the very focus of their story. Weird pride issues.
>>84129377
well this got weird(er)
>>84129385
The line between "this is just a difference of opinion and both approaches have solid grounding" and "this really IS a failure/weakness in the work that you'd be wise to address" is case by case, to put forth a bland truism
>>84129385
Waid obviously thought so.
>>84129410
>Like a lapsed christian dude writing a story all about Islamic faith and going off shit he learned from USAToday
Habibi?
>>84129416
HI MIGGY
>>84128214
Fearmaster lost his hand in Spidey 2099, right?
He also showed up a lot there, in pissing matches with Stone.
>>84129441
>>84129345
Should I start planting a victory garden?
>>84128985
http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/2010/12/13/editorial-slott-vs-crawlspace/
>>84129395
I disagree. PM&IF is a different case from most books because it stars two characters who bounce off each other very well and fill the roles supporting cast usually would.
We have Batman which has Alfred and Duke, we have Superman that had Jimmy and Perry and Lois, the other Superman that has Jon and other Lois, really it's only team books that don't have a supporting cast, which is par for the course with ensembles.
>>84129271
As Batgirl, Babs is just another cape who blends into crowd scenes. As Oracle, Babs is a major part of in-universe superhero culture, giving various heroes support and brokering information and equipment. She doesn't really do anything as a regular cape. Her current solo book demonstrates this pretty well. For all editorial wants to push her as the one true Batgirl, they seem to be struggling to find her an actual story.
>>84129437
A very good example, and further exemplified by the creator reacting to critique of its orientalism by going "I knew it would be called orientalist... so I made it as orientalist as possible!"
Like, maybe talk to muslims? Read their books they've written themselves? They've written some amazing books, I can assure you. You'll learn a lot instead of going "fuck it".
>>84128347
11/10 page, would buy the poster version.
>>84129458
>>84129181
Still mad about no anger about how Marvel's been fucking Kirby for decades but if Cap is evil for an arc heavens no
Are doing this one or this skipping
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-fall-of-the-hammer/4045-43038/
>>84129557
>Ravage
They're apparently bringing him back for Miguel's tie-in to Civil War II.
>>84129315
I assumed it was too late to stop issue 2 before going away bc of the critisism
>>84129541
>>84129507
There's something to be said for "This has pretty much no relation to real material" as a tag, but just own it as such and then don't try to pitch it as authentic. [I say this as a big fan of a whole bunch of completely Orientalist operas that are delightful in and of themselves but should not be taken as anything but Orientalist fantasies.]
>>84129557
probably skipping the other issues because I don't have them
>>84129611
ICONOBLAST
>>84129507
>Like, maybe talk to muslims? Read their books they've written themselves? They've written some amazing books, I can assure you. You'll learn a lot instead of going "fuck it".
But research is haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard! Especially when it comes to Wicca or Neo Paganism. Holy shit.
>>84129628
>>84127757
It only really took some reading comprehension to see all the red parts in the memories were intentional on the part of the creative team and likely false. But people like being mad and complaining about comics they haven't read, I guess.
>>84129665
>>84129703
>>84129715
>>84129729
whoops, I don't have this issue
I gotta get some of the twitches out--call it here, or back in 30-40?
>>84129757
It'll be 9 when you get back, your call if that's too late.
>>84129757
whatever's good for you, I don't have a life either way
>>84128791
>"How to write things and not get obsessed with criticism and not to take it personally/how to disentangle your self-worth from it all"
I think everyone in entertainment struggles with that. Any time your continued good fortune relies on people liking you I think you risk getting trapped in a terrible cycle of receiving hate and regurgitating it reflexively.
>>84129757
Whichever you prefer. I got nothing better to do than chat with you lot and glare at this wretched fucking hole in my ceiling.
>>84128921
His clash with John Byrne was delightful (in a cringy way) since he made the mistake of entering an arena (Byrne's forum) where he had no power or backing from the people in charge.
>>84129377
Nice chief-as-editor.
"Yeah, pause the story you've been telling so you can participate in this crossover."
>>84129757
I'm down for more, gives me a nice opportunity to shower
>>84129793
nah, I'll aim for around then
and you guys can help motivate me to do something I've been putting off
>>84128880
>That's fascinating and yet that is such a setup for an unhealthy relationship
I don't think I have ever had any real interest in meeting the creator of stuff I enjoy.
Like, it's kinda weird, and make me feel like I'm less invested than other people, but at the same time I feel like I'd have nothing to say that would be in any way relevant to the creator. Praise them and it's nothing. Criticize particular aspects and it's nothing. You are one of thousands saying the same kinds of things to them and why would they really care?
>>84129655
>Wicca
>Neo-Paganism
>hard to research
???
>>84129081
>to try to explain the problem without them jumping to "Are you saying I'm a bigot?"
This is usually because the internet is quite willing to call anyone and everyone a bigot as soon as possible.
Just look at the dogpile on Justin Timberlake on the weekend. He got called a bigot for agreeing with a black guy's message to improve black representation.
>>84129905
I'm kind of like that and I don't think it's an investment thing. Of course even when reading articles and all I think the only parts I find interesting are red tape/editorial interfering/general drama stuff rather than purely creative process, so I just thought it was because I'm not really a creative person.
>>84129757
OP, I find it useful in the future to check for trades before doing a storytime. Trades typically have the accompanying crossover issues listed.
>>84130072
This series never had trades. They didn't collect almost everything back then, and it's not notable enough to get any kind of collection in the present.
>>84130203
Really? I know Spider-Man 2099 is getting reprinted trades.
>>84129458
Fearmaster's IFO medallion really make him look like John Lennon playing Dr Strange.
This is fucking hilarious.
>>84129919
You would fucking think so with how often media gets it fucking wrong.
>>84129628
So wait, who did this guy want Jake to be? Tyr maybe?
Couldn't have been Odin, right?
>>84129628
>>84130401
No wait, scratch that.
He'd have been Skurge, wouldn't he?
>>84130243
Probably because he's had two new series since 2014.
>>84130445Sif
>>84130243
Spider-Man 2099 is the exception, because it has Peter David stumping for it and has seen regular revisits to it, from storylines where he meets Peter to that run he had on the Exiles. He was also the most popular character in the entire setting.
>>84130512
>He was also the most popular character in the entire setting.
It happens with every spiderman
MC2
Ultimate
2099
Noir
>>84130203
and it's not on Unlimited, either
you want this, you go scans or bin diving
>>84130595
Well, MC2 was totally a Spider-Girl spinoff to begin with so it was only fair she was the most popular part.
>>84130651
that was a shitty less jog more walk, but eh, it is what it is
>>84130651
So skipping his brawl with Ravage then?
>>84130512
Second most popular once X-Men 2099 got going. Of course, the X-Men were the hugest things in the 90s. Now the 2099 group is a bunch of "Who?"s
>>84130675
yeah, I don't have it
>>84130707
(sorry)
>>84130801
>>84130818
couldn't you just buy a fleshlight, dude?
>>84130861
what's out tomorrow that's not Cap trolling?
>>84130861
Ellis would later take this idea for his Moon Knight
>>84130877
>>84130903
it's honestly pretty standard cyberpunk/dystopian fare
>>84130903
CoC I think
>>84130877
Grayson Annual seems fun
>Dick, Constantine, and Simon in one book
>>84130944
>>84131043
splat
>>84131003
2husbando4me
>>84131062
>>84131109
>>84131183
these expressions are great
>>84130877
Vision, I think
pretty weak week overall though
>>84131207
I still can't believe we're getting NOW!ed again
>>84131306
>>84131233
Fifth Wednesday whaddya gonna do
>>84131340
>>84131306
Nothing surprises me with Marvel anymore.
>>84131357
yeah true
at least July will have some cool stuff
>>84131306
I can't help but laugh that they just reused the same name
also the teasers suck
>>84131361
hold on guys, we're about to go there
>>84131361
Those smiles...
>>84131426
No pack for the Punisher, eh?
>>84131453
Oh no! What will he do without an external means of flight?!
>>84131481
FUCK YEAH, that's what
>>84131517
>>84131517
beautiful
>>84131541
>>84131517
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs
>Tfw i am missing these storytimes and the discussion about them because of my job
I was here when we were having a discussion about sex dungeons, I miss that day.
>>84131599
yesterday we literally had an actual sex dungeon in the story
>>84131599
>tfw nobody ever discusses sex dungeons in your storytimes
Feels bad, man.
>>84131599
I know that feel.
It makes you appreciate the times you do get to join in, though. We had some pretty high fallutin' talk today.
>>84131620
>>84131631
there should be sex dungeons for everyone (who wants there to be a sex dungeon)
>>84131641
without discussion, there is 0 motivation to storytime! i do it for the owls!
>>84131654
more like the Smugisher
>>84131654
HOOT HOOT
>>84131517
>"I don't need a jetpack. All I need is HATE!"
I dunno, this line is crazy, but it's not really doing it for me. Give us a jetpack that runs on hate, then we'll talk.
>>84131654
hoot
>>84131654
>without discussion, there is 0 motivation to storytime! i do it for the owls!
Well tonight I'm doing a good story, so maybe I'll get some decent discussion.
>>84131620
>The Fantastic Four is not being cancelled. We wouldn't cancel the world's greatest comic magazine now, would we? Especially not with a movie version rarin to be released.
HA HA
>Anyone who knows Bob knows that he has no interest in taking over the company
HA HA
>
>>84131672
thanks for reading, more tomorrow as well as the discussion of whatever comes out
I think I'm going to make another badass Nord lady in Skyrim
>>84131672
[Faint YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA in the distance]
>>84131398
>I can't help but laugh that they just reused the same name
same
it's like they realized ANAD was a mistake, at least financial wise, so they just go back to the more successful relaunch
instead of making good books or something that'll spread by word of mouth or something
>>84131725
Thanx senpai
>>84131771
>instead of making good books or something that'll spread by word of mouth or something
even Marvel saw how bad Omega Men sold
>>84131804
At least Vision is selling okay. ;_;
>>84131725
Thanks for posting as always, Storyteller.
>I think I'm going to make another badass Nord lady in Skyrim
Good luck with that. Kind of a shame there's no D&D video games like that. None of these types of games have any player races that are like the warforged.
>>84131704
>>84131725
Thanks, OP. This story's been a riot.
>>84131804
It's okay, Batman will make it so Omega Men sells good in trades.R-right, anons?
>>84131877
Y-yeah. Omega Men's gonna do just fine in trades, anon!
>>84131771
They made good books in ANAD and shilled a lot of them (Vision most clearly giving away a free issue in a book with their two most popular characters). But good books sell. Characters and to some extent writers do.
>>84132109
*Don't sell. My bad.
>>84131517
It's even better in context.
Bamp
>i'm betting there's someone out there doing pun pun kill chan 2099 art
>>84132290
Probably be better than the actual female Punisher 2099 we ended up getting.
>>84132469
That's not Vendetta.
>>84133316
Oh yeah.
Don't remember caring too much for her, outside of the cool design.
>>84130685
>Now the 2099 group is a bunch of "Who?"s
That's because it was not a good book, really.
>>84130801
This doesn't feel like a Hindenburg situation at all.
>>84131183
Whoever was worldbuilding all the future crap in this series deserves an award. I don't remember any scifi coming up with something as weird as ozone hole bacteria farms.
>>84131109
Shouldn't Jake's face be pixelskulled there?
>>84131306
the guy in the top right panel has literally croaked.
>>84131517
>I don't need a jetpack, all I need is hate!
>>84131357
Bring back 90s style events and do a bunch of goofy one shots, with everyone turning into kids, or gorillas, or getting What If/Elseworlds stories in one shots?
>>84131620
Bullpen Bulletins is a fascinating look into the past.
Like, look at the hype box. It's time for JUSTICE.
Seriously, I'm loving these. I'm mostly skipping the letter pages, probably wrongly, but looking at what Marvel was hyping back in the day is supper interesting to me.
>>84131654
>without discussion, there is 0 motivation to storytime!
I could see that.
Posting even just one issue on it's own with no feedback would feel like a waste of time. You could read it much faster if you weren't unsuccessfully trying to read it alone.
ahh i missed the rest of the thread and making fun of comics twitter and all that. oh well.
>>84133938
there's a lot to lol about on comics twitter tomorrow--Busiek's been all "Seriously? The Cap twist was that, and people were freaking out at me so personally over it?"
>>84132469
That looks more Mangaverse than the Mangaverse.
>>84133973
i'm excited and hopeful for fun. so many people seeming to suddenly not have reading comprehension. just own up to the twist getting you and then complain about whatever.
i don't know why this gets me so riled up.
>>84133973
>>84134040
If Zemo really does end up turning anti-hero again that'll probably be the next thing these people will be terribly outraged by.
