What were your thoughts on Lord English as a villain? I feel he was terribly utilized, but goddamn he had such presence in the earlier acts. Hussie did a goddamn god job of making the mystery around him compelling, then he just shat all over him with the dreambubble ghost army crap.
Where was my mob boss?!
WHERE'S HIVESWAP
>>84116610
Dreambubbles themselves were used incorrectly
In act 5 act 2 they were used as a way to do flashbacks in a creative way, backtracking and finding out exactly what happened in the past. It was a cool way to find out, and was usually only shown when a certain character was faciliating. Otherwise they wouldnt realize they were in a dreambubble and even then it just became a more or less just a cool memory and their influence on the story was extremely limited. Their helping the living was just helping remmeber stuff they already knew
In act 6 it became this entire afterlife where the dead freely roamed, instead of being held down by rules. It really ruined how serious death felt, and their influence was much greater than just remembering. They actively were a part of act 6. Lord English was a good way to bring death back as a serious threat, but it never went anywhere.
>>84116653
Jesus fucking christ
The guy behind Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is writing Hiveswap?
You guys are fucked
>>84116682
You can trace back almost everything that went wrong to the dreambubbles. It's a shame, because they did start off interesting, but nope gotta bloat up the cast with useless dream clones, dumb army shit and 12 MORE TROLLS.
>>84116725
Nah he isn't righting it, he's just friends with the game who owns the ip
the actual writer is honest to god a literally who from twitter who's claim to fame is a tweet making fun of how shitty it is to be known as a literally who
>>84116725
It's him, Hussie and some twitter rando, though I don't think Ryan is doing much.
Yeah though it does not look good.
>>84116653
>Ryan North
NonononononNONONONONONO
>>84116737
>>84116739
Jeez isn't that a fitting description for Hiveswap's development cycle
YOU THERE
RANDOM TWITTER MAN
BE THE HEAD WRITER OF HOMESTUCK'S SEQUEL
YOU'RE VERY SKILLED AT WRITING WITH 150 CHARACTERS, SO 150 THOUSAND WORDS SHOULD BE NO BIG DEAL
>>84116740
You now realize Hussie would shill this unironically if he was still more internet active.
>>84116759
Considering he linked to Neokosmos... yeah. Yeah, he would have.
>>84116725
>squirrel girl is going to be what people remember North more for
Fucking kill me now, this shit isn't worth it.
>>84116873
he brought this on himself
turns out he was a one trick pony
>>84116732
>bloat up the cast
reposting the factual opinion that the dancestors didnt bloat up the cast any more than the fucking felt since, like the felt, they were there for gags for one intermission and then gone. this 12 MORE TROLLS shit is a stupid meme and should die.
>>84116933
I see you're trying to force this
>>84116725
i couldnt believe it when i found out ryan north wrote squirrel girl after seeing it around here repeatedly and cringing like fucking mad every time. i used to fucking love dinosaur comics 8 years ago, i started reading problem sleuth because of him. what fucking happened.
>>84116947
you dont force facts you just post them over and over again on 4chan until people who say things that are wrong stop saying them
>>84116979
>admitting to spamming and shitposting
Better luck next time champ
>>84116610
He had an amazing build up, but did literally nothing remotely villainous in the end, fought (more like played around with) a bunch of useless teen ghosts and got defeated (?) offscreen, so it was all a huge waste.
tfw when we never got to see how they wrecked shit together with Handmaid
>>84116896
Hey, the Hamlet CYOA wasn't awful.
I feel like if Squirrel Girl wasn't tea there's to that awful art people wouldn't think so badly of the writing. It's shit, but it's "one off fluke" shit, not "career destroying cancer" shit.
>>84116933
I'd say they didn't bloat up the cast - they just bloated up the story. Openbound was a long, three part flash containing a lot of conversations and sidequests.
Going through with every single one of them took you, at the very list, a whole hour.
And who would have skipped them, and risked missing out on plot relevant information?
So you play through all three flashes, try all the conversations... and in the end, it turns out the Dancestors don't matter in the plot at all. They are side-stories, minor lore, background details. What have you learned when the entire thing is over? Only the smallest breadcrumbs of information.
Compare this to the way the Felt were introduced: Hussie focused on the elements that were directly relevant to the story. We did not have to skim through three conversations between Doze and Cans to figure them out.
All the information was picked out for us: rough outlines of the Felt's personalities, their powers, their conflict with the M.C. And that was all.
Presentation made the difference. Sometimes, less is more.
>>84117222
my anecdotal response to this is that everyone ive recently introduced to this comic was turned off by the intermission to the point of not wanting to read homestuck any more, even once they were past it. i guess in the past people told their friends to keep going since its 'worth it' but that didnt seem like a fair thing to do to people i like now that act 6 and the ending are what they are so i let them all drop it there.
im sure there are some genuine fans but i think a lot of people here who made it through the intermission way back in the day when they still thought hussie was a genius decided to convince themselves retroactively it was great writing for whatever reason. which is fine, you can tell yourself whatever lies you like, but i cant just not notice it when theres an obvious contradiction between your opinions about two basically identical things.
>and in the end, it turns out the Dancestors don't matter in the plot at all. They are side-stories, minor lore, background details. What have you learned when the entire thing is over? Only the smallest breadcrumbs of information.
sorry which set of characters were you talking about? which intermission?
>Vriska got her childhood shown
>Kanaya got her childhood shown
>Terezi got her childhood shown
>but no Karkat flashbacks about his life
JUST
>>84117446
Literally what was the point of Karkat? To be the "leader?"
Vriska was the leader. She was better at it. Hence the retcon. Karkat leads to everyone dying
>>84116933
The felt were flat, one dimensional characters with cool powers and no dialogue. But most of all, they were designed to be funny gag characters, and nothing else.
The dancestors were much less interesting in comparison and had loads of dialogue to go through. They were portrayed as much more serious characters too, which bored some people, while everyone else was disappointed that they became irrelevant.
>>84117586
im failing to see what about kankri and latula and mituna and everyone else except meenah/aranea pointed to them being 'serious characters'. but the dialogue point is reasonable. imma stop arguing about this now anyway.
>>84117436
What I'm saying is, the Felt are also side-stories and stuff. But the information they build up - Spades Slick's personality, indirectly; Snowman's special power; the exiles on the moon - all that information is streamlined and presented to you through a bunch of short fights and light dialogue.
In contrast, you need to read through dozens of long conversations in Openbound to isolate the small tidbits of info you need. That kinda sucks. Especially since these big conversations full of characterization amount to nothing.
>>84117446
I had a very bad feeling when we were shown Vriska's childhood back in Act 5. I think it hadn't been done for a troll before. It's the kind of thing that just oozes "I am willing to do anything to make this character sympathetic."
Yes, here she is as a toddler. You wouldn't hate a toddler, would you? She grew up to be like this because of her mom. Please don't judge her too harshly.
Here's Vriska being a cute nerd who kisses her posters. Now some heartfelt conversations with John.
(And then as a ghost she can have a big speech about how much she really cares! And then she can make out and be cute with Meenah! And here's her childhood memories with Terezi, look at her goofy smile, isn't that adorable?)
...It honestly weirded me out, more so since we never saw appeals to sympathy of this caliber on any other character. I wasn't surprised that it kept going like parentheses related.
>>84117436
>my anecdotal response to this is that everyone ive recently introduced to this comic was turned off by the intermission to the point of not wanting to read homestuck any more,
what kind of shit taste do you hang around with
ARADIA SELLS HER BODY TO PLEASE OLD MEN
>>84117774
i just want some shoes 0n0
>>84117525
To troll the shit out of loser manlets and having their self-insert turned into a fucktoy for another character.
>>84117774
how did she sell her body? like her skeleton for science? that's very nice of you aradia!
>>84117436
People stop reading during the Felt intermission because they think it's not gonna be important but it actually is.
People keep reading during the Dancestor intermission because they think it's gonna be important but it's actually not.
>>84117436
Someone else has brought up the fact that by the time you're at the Dancestors, you've been trained (through moments like the Intermission) to go pay attention to every part of the story.
The second thing to note is that people who don't like the Intermission don't like it for the same reasons they don't like the early acts and Problem Sleuth: The simple humor and characters and the convoluted plots don't appeal to them.
arabia > aradia >aragia >aramia >adadia > aratía > arania > aranea
>>84118429
... > damara > nepeta
Do you think andrew did drugs during the lifespan of homestuck?
>>84118429
Not even once.
>>84118476
He clearly doesn't understand alcohol so that's out
prob pills if I had to guess
Aradia is a lewd!
>>84118472
>>84118490
>>84116610
>he had such a presence in the earlier acts.
He wasn't even revealed until like Act 4, the Midnight Crew intermission didn't give a clear reason why the kids/trolls should be worried about him.
And the only reason he felt like a threat during early Act 5 is because we attributed to him what eventually turned out to be Bec Noir.
It was really hard to feel like LE was a threatening villain when he spends most of his time destroying the edges of space time and we don't even really get any reason why we would care until Act 6 when you actually start seeing ghosts get killed
>>84116610
i read archivally and honestly i thought he was a joke at first. the second scratch came in and turned him into a bigger and bigger deal i thought it was a mistake. the story would probably have been better without him but caliborn was fucking great, and weirdly ive started to like lord english more now that ive finished and can make sense of him properly as the architect behind everything.
>>84118588
By presence I meant the whole 'ohh who is lord english? ooohh' thing. It was a powerful mystery.
>>84117446
>being the only person who liked Karkat
:( sigh
>>84118699
Thanks for reminding me how retarded /v/ is
>>84116759
The real Hussie died long ago
>>84118779
karkat is really popular here which is why everyone keeps going on about him. hsg just shows its love in strange ways.
>>84117886
but her slutty feet sell so well
>>84118779
>>84118779
I liked Karkat before he went to shit
I liked ALL the trolls before they went to shit
it 8urts
>>84118779
>>84118813
Why do you think people are so mad about how he turned out? Most people liked Karkat.
>>84118779
I think the reason I like him so much is because he didn't do any important shit, really. he shooshed gamzee, and... yep.
he was more relatable
>>84118564
>there will never be such a huge explosion of porn for every possible fetish as Homestuck ever again.
It makes me so sad, too. Homestuck has so much neat fetish potential, from made up troll xenobiology to dancestor incest scenarios.
>>84118476
>that 88 pages week was hussie taking adderal
>act 6 and making a kickstarter between your comic are the withdrawal symptoms
>>84118779
>the only person
Nigga, everyone loved Karkat. Hussie just hates his 8utt the most.
>>84118813
Karkat is popular pretty much everywhere. He's been listed as a (of not THE) fan favorite in many surveys.
Granted, a few Karkat fans see him as a sensitive woobie who just needs a boyfriend, but the rest - the majority - arguably loves him for what he is in general and want him to have a happy ending that doesn't involve dick. They were disappointed as hell.
>>84118854
dancestor incest you say?
>>84118905
>>84118915
>>84118856
Trying to do the Kickstarter before the comic was such a mistake. If he had waited until the end to reveal the game Kickstarter he could have rode out the popularity longer and it would have been healthier for both projects. Most of the Homestuck fandom moved on during the YEARS of hiatus.
does anybody have the article that talks about how one of the hussie boys almost burned down their dad's house because of a cigarette butt they threw in the trash
Damn Nepeta is far from being my favorite character or even waifu... But seeing fan art of her gives me a strong ">tfw you will never cuddle her" feeling...
>>84118905
>not calling it incestors
>>84118964
i have a nepeta
>>84118985
You mean a cat?
>>84118779
>>84118985
i nearly fucked a nepeta a week ago but we were in a room with a bunch of friends so i thought it was best to delay and then she wasnt into it the next day. still pretty fuckin annoyed about that.
>>84117703
>Yes, here she is as a toddler. You wouldn't hate a toddler, would you? She grew up to be like this because of her mom. Please don't judge her too harshly.
I can kind of agree with you here, it was a bit heavy-handed
>Here's Vriska being a cute nerd who kisses her posters. Now some heartfelt conversations with John.
Can't agree with you here. She wasn't always as terrible as she was at the end of the comic. When she was clearly an antagonistic force in the story, it was fine that Huss was trying to make her a bit more sympathetic, especially in her interactions with John, where you could easily see the warped nature of her ideas of what was good and how you treat your friends because it contrasted so entirely with his affable, friendly personality.
It gave her depth, and her confusion over being introduced to human concepts of morality, but choosing to follow the path that she set out regardless and dying for it made for an interesting end to her arc.
Then she came back, like everyone else, and the story started sucking.
>>84117703
>we never saw appeals to sympathy of this caliber on any other character
that's because no other character needed them as much as vriska
the point of vriska was always to be as divisive as possible
>>84118902
Karkat's always been second to Dave
>>84118959
never mind, found it
>>84119094
>>84119118
Yeah, I do agree that these sympathetic moments were necessary to make her an interesting. But it still felt jarring (to me, personally). Especially in contrast to the outright undignified treatment that parts of the cast received. I don't know why, it makes me uneasy.
>>84119163
>andrew wrote dave's relationship with bro to parallel his relationships with his parents
>this was his attempt to kill them both in the fire
>>84119181
I think she could have been fine without them personally
by the time we actually see "tiny vriska" she had already gotten the waifu ball rolling, so there were people who would like her no matter what
>>84119258
just his dad, hussie's parents were separated/probably divorced
>>84119181
Because they were written to be losers. Every troll was a loser, because they had been raised in a society where they needed to be kept down by their oppressive monarch. They thought that hatred and violence and murder were totally fair ways of expressing themselves.
She was a loser in the end (of act 5), too, but she was relatively strong and competent compared to the other losers.
>>84119293
>his father was an domineering and emotionally distant semi-psychopath who fucked up his own emotional expression
>his mother was loving but bad at showing it and still kind of neglectful. he misunderstood her love due to his fathers influence on his way of thinking
this is my andrew hussie headcanon.
aradia is NOT a slut
She is NOT lewd
ARADIA
IS
PURE
she died three times... she probably even regrew her hymen as god tier...
I realized none of this shit would have happened if hussie hired a manager like penny arcade did
>>84117886
>aradia stepping on legos and moaning in pain
>>84119293
That's true. If Cronus can have unironic fans, any protagonist (for a loose definition of protagonist) can.
>>84119338
That doesn't have much to do with what I'm saying. Feferi, for example, wasn't that big a loser, and she still got one of the most undignified treatments in the comic.
But yeah, in the end, they were all more or less losers. Vriska certainly as much as the others, considering her lack of social skills, complete unhappiness, etc. But these aspects showed incredibly sparingly. We had to wait until (Vriska) for her to be really revealed as a loser, and even then, it was another Vriska playing the role of the "bully who's still 'cool' and makes good points".
Also, I'd argue that Terezi, Kanaya, Aradia, (arguably) Sollux, and (eventually) Tavros could have been almost as competent as her, but at least half of them never got much sympathetic framing from the story.
>>84119427
bolin warned us...
>>84119520
feferi was totally a loser, and kind of a deluded mollycoddling nicey nice type. she empressed one planet for millenia and look how well it turned out
Here is how to fix Karkat:
*eats him*
*8urps*
L8L!
>>84119391
>having headcanons on a real human being's relationship with their parents as a child
>>84119427
I mean that would be good for Hussie but not so much for us, Penny Arcade is pretty shitty now. At least our kickstarter actually involved a product of some sort.
>>84119581
He's being facetious
Probably
>>84119581
who's gonna buy my unauthorized andrew hussie biography if I don't spice it up a little
>>84119581
zack's art on pxs sure was bad
>>84119609
i know this pic is old as hell, did one of our drawfags do it?
>>84119520
>Feferi, for example, wasn't that big a loser, and she still got one of the most undignified treatments in the comic.
She wasn't important to the story, and her character didn't get fleshed out very much. Her death was kind of a joke, but it also made us realize how serious eridan was about his plans.
>But these aspects showed incredibly sparingly. We had to wait until (Vriska) for her to be really revealed as a loser, and even then, it was another Vriska playing the role of the "bully who's still 'cool' and makes good points".
I read homestuck from the beginning and I never thought Vriska was anything besides a bitch with a soft side whose arrogance was going to get her and the people who cared about her killed. That changed once the dream bubbles became a thing, but before that point, she was a fatally flawed yet competent antagonist. She was written to be an important part of the story, just like Terezi, John, Jack, etc.
>Also, I'd argue that Terezi, Kanaya, Aradia, (arguably) Sollux, and (eventually) Tavros could have been almost as competent as her, but at least half of them never got much sympathetic framing from the story.
No disagreements here (except Tavros), but Andrew dropped the ball in fleshing them out, not in making her important to the story (referring only to act 5).
>>84119572
That's fair.
/r/ the I DON'T KNOW WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE dark tower copypasta
My reasons for doing so will be made clear shortly...
>The Baby Is You: a parody musical made by Radiation & friends, consisting of 11 parts now available for download here (or on Youtube.) Radiation wondered whether the "no pregnant kids" rule on the Art forum extended to songs and created an album that centers around Dave giving birth to John. It was posted on the forum on 14.10.2010[9], met with shocked disbelief, and deleted a short time later. The mods later declared that "Posting anything from this album is unacceptable."[10]. More reactions, koalababies?
wew lad
>>84119596
A manager would have prevented the disaster that was the kickstarter, and reorganized the art and music teams, resulting in a relatively less stressed but still dadless hussie that would have remembered how to write his comic.
>>84119619
kek
>>84120010
>A manager would have prevented the disaster that was the kickstarter
but like I just said, Penny Arcade had their own kickstarter, and it makes the Hiveswap kickstarter look reasonable
i just realised that vriska died while doc scratch was in control of the comic. her death really was never supposed to happen.
even in their introduction it was played up that they constantly played games against each other, that scratch always won. but vriska said shed get him eventually, and smashing eight balls was her thing.
well, ive convinced myself to my satisfaction that her return was 'intended' or 'foreshadowed'. now i just wish it was 'written well'.
>>84120086
Vriska went from a very good schemer to fucking SMT Lucifer, the problem isn't what was done, it was the execution
>>84120086
Thats actually a pretty cool idea brah
>>84120086
I think her afterlife was foreshadowed and then Hussie changed it to an actual resurrection at the last second
>>84120144
>to fucking SMT Lucifer
in what sense
Lucifer wasn't all that clever tobehonest
and he was more sympathetic than Vriska
>>84120144
man, if vriska coulda come back and not QUITE taken over fucking everything. been important but not at the expense of everyone else doing anything relevant at all. and then we'd had some fun conversations and banter instead of crywanks. that mighta been just fine.
>>84120259
No, no, no.
Her coming back into the comic AT ALL was a mistake. She had a satisfying, completed story, she died, that should have been it.
The dream bubbles were such a massive mistake
>there will never be a properly edited version of homestuck which tightens up the execution
shit sucks
>>84120309
reminder that the only characters to die and stay dead were doc scratch and AR
>>84120364
>forgetting Snowman
>forgetting Bec
>>84120364
>doc scratch died
does it even count if we spend the rest of the comic reading about his component selves and the green goon that hes a part of
>>84120364
Davesprite died
Karkat was a main character... right?
>>84120512
Keyword anon, was.
>>84120512
Yes, was.
>>84120512
doesnt he have the most words of anyone in the comic? even more than dave?
>>84120512
He was supposed to be the main troll.
>>84120562
Yes, but to be fair it's somewhat skewed given his talking style is supposed to be ranting, which means he'd take more words to say less. In addition he spent a lot of time arguing with himself, helped to pad the word count numbers.
>>84120562
According to Leddit, yes, just barely.
48383 Karkat Vantas
48118 Dave Strider
47843 John Egbert
41793 Vriska Serket
28361 Rose Lalonde
28274 Andrew Hussie
27359 Roxy Lalonde
25356 Jade Harley
25132 Caliborn
24057 Dirk Strider
21741 Terezi Pyrope
20135 Jake English
18263 Aranea Serket
15826 Calliope
15257 Kanaya Maryam
14437 Jane Crocker
13076 Meenah Peixes
10714 Doc Scratch
8256 Tavros Nitram / Tavrosprite
8015 Auto-Responder
7593 Aradia Megido / Aradiasprite / Aradiabot
5522 Sollux Captor
5225 Kankri Vantas
5002 Gamzee Makara
4735 Jasprosesprite2
4608 Eridan Ampora
3810 Equius Zahhak / Equiusprite
3599 Davesprite
3558 ARquiusprite
3520 Nannasprite
3493 Marquise Spinneret Mindfang
3354 Nepeta Leijon / Nepetasprite
3086 Feferi Peixes
2831 Cronus Ampora
2827 Davepetasprite2
2779 Rufioh Nitram
2165 Horuss Zahhak
1825 Porrim Maryam
1605 Latula Pyrope
1493 Jack Noir / Spades Slick
1153 Wayward Vagabond
1148 Jaspersprite
1119 Jadesprite
1043 Erisolsprite
980 Meulin Leijon
656 Courtyard Droll / Clubs Deuce
591 Damara Megido
526 Draconian Dignitary
484 fedorafreak
396 Mituna Captor
285 Rosesprite
260 Crowbar
249 Dad Egbert / Dad Crocker
241 Peregrine Mendicant
236 Kurloz Makara
232 Clover
204 Hegemonic Brute
145 Squarewave
135 Tavrisprite
115 Ms. Paint
106 Her Imperious Condescension
97 Aimless Renegade
88 Snowman
82 Serenity
78 Windswept Questant
78 Calsprite
37 Fin
24 Stitch
20 Dragonsprite
17 Mothersprite
13 Bro Strider
13 Fefetasprite
13 GCATavrosprite
8 Becsprite
6 Doze
6 Die
1 The Dolorosa
>>84120629
>roxy has more than jade
>arenea above kanaya and jane
What a fucking waste
>>84120629
>Meenah has more words than 8 of the main trolls
FUCK HUSSIE FUCK HUSSIE FUCK HUSSIE
>>84120629
>all jacks combined have less words than than latula, rufioh, horuss, and cronus
im assuming this is counting words assigned to him in the narration. i dont know whether im impressed he has so many for a non-speaking character or just horrified
>>84120705
meenah is literally a main troll and the alter ego of a major villain. getting mad that she has words is like getting mad that caliborn has words
>>84120068
They also had their own cons and have basically become a fully fledged brand. All that because of the shmuck they hired a decade ago. Granted, they brand has been old for quite some time now and in fact i'm not sure if they still have the same dude with them, but they owe a massive chunk of their success to their businessman. Hussie could have benefited from something like that.
>>84120629
>jade has more words than caliborn or scratch
wew quality > quantity indeed
>>84120795
that's what I said
it would be good for Hussie, but for us, it would just mean more commercialization
>>84120629
When the heck did Bro and Die ever talk.
>>84120818
I mean we want more Homestuck. And Hussie's problem was that his terrible business decisions lead to massive dry spells that killed his fanbase. A constant stream of content would be beneficial for Huss and his fans.
>>84120629
this is missing lord english, who has a grand total of 32 words.
>>84120784
But she just wasn't a necessary character. All she did was lead the ghost army, which a large number of other characters could have done. And what's the point of having an alter ego of a villain if you aren't going to expand on that villain? I guess I'm just mad about her because it's all just a part of an infuriating tapestry.
>>84120838
I think Bro might be from notes, and the Felt is from lines like "You say get over here. He says fuck you in response."
>>84120882
>I guess I'm just mad about her because it's all just a part of an infuriating tapestry.
HOMESTUCK
>>84120818
Ah, I get what you mean.
I guess anything could happen. Penny Arcade was a comedy comic with little story and """""""""""artistic""""""""" value, I think in our case, if you hire someone so he can manage the franchise while you work on your art they'll ensure you have the time to do so.
>>84120857
>I mean we want more Homestuck
I don't
my ideal scenario is that Hussie stops working on homestuck altogether and does a brand new adventure
I hate all of the homestuck spinoffs and merchandise, other than the official music albums
http://saccharinesylph.tumblr.com/post/141045889085/seerofsarcasm-cursmudgeon-bawlgoblin
jesus christ
I wish I could have seen this for myself
>>84120629
>Die has 6
A boy falls in love with a troll.
>Knight of Light
>not the biggest attention-whores
And then everything goes horribly wrong.
>>84121183
>jake/kanaya
>>84121179
>Snowman has 88
>>84121160
Seen what?
>>84121238
homestuck's presence in US conventions
>>84121196
The Thief of Light already has that covered
>>84121278
Why? It sounds nauseating
>>84120795
interesting read m8, ty
>>84121196
They are jealous as fuck at other people's success. And they are insecure at wanting praise and attention.
>>84120629
So Roxy really is the MC of the Alpha Kids
![[muffled steel python music in the background].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/71PjHDj.jpg "[muffled steel python music in the background].jpg")
>>84120629
>Roxy has nearly as many words as Rose
>despite being introduced in act 6
>despite Rose chatting an overly verbose manner
>despite Roxy typing in short sentences
>>84121307
clusterfucks are an entertaining thing to observe
>>84121467
shes fucking dave: girl edition
>>84121467
Rose basically disappeared in Act 6
And while Roxy speaks in bursts she's as rambly as both her ectokids
>>84121467
Rose became a useless lesbian along with Kanaya, who is similiarly useless
>>84121523
are there any breakdowns of words per character per act?
>>84116610
He was ruined by Caliborn, and Jack should always have been the main/final villain. The deaths of the guardians were far more villainous than anything LE ever did.
>>84116732
You can trace everything that went wrong to the Scratch.
Character bloat was a problem, but because of the alpha kids more than anything else.
>>84121467
To be fair, Roxy was the only new kid worth a damn. What happened to Rose after act 5 was a disgrace, though, and emblematic of the real issue with Homestuck: it went from being a story about the four kids, and their supporting cast, to a story where the supporting cast played as much of a role as the kids, if not more.
>>84121656
Even Dave touched on this, but Hussie just... ignored it I guess?
DAVE: i dont give a damn about lord english or his nebulous atrocities out in nowherespace
DAVE: what kind of villain is someone you never met who hardly did anything evil to you or your friends directly
DAVE: or even to anyone in your universe for that matter other than through some vague insidious influence
DAVE: who even is this guy and why should i hate him
DAVE: am i really supposed to be pissed off at a green muscle monster i never met
DAVE: cause i aint pissed off at no muscle monster
DAVE: hell wasnt he in some ass backwards way responsible for us existing in the first place?
DAVE: or all of humanity for that matter??
DAVE: maybe i should thank him before chopping him up via welshscalibur
>>84121656
He wasn't ruined by Caliborn, he was ruined by Hussie not knowing what to fucking do with him.
The twist with English being made up of other characters was interesting and would have implied the final result would be drastically different to Caliborn, but no, all we get is RAWR LAZARS
>>84121678
yeah the alpha kids were a way bigger issue than any set of trolls. most trolls were never supposed to be important whereas jake and jane had all the set-up of very major characters of their own story. for better or worse they were main characters and they just sort of disappeared right at the end, while jade and rose never recovered from being 'temporarily' sidelined.
>>84121753
>tfw jade being a sassy dog monster was actually an improvement
>tfw it too went literally nowhere
>tfw no good art of grimbark getting purifeied by dave's dick
>>84121744
Exactly. I always expected a final showdown with Jack to be the real climax of the comic, after all his savage and heart-wrenching acts of villainy. Thanks, Act 6.
Rereading the stretch after Dave: Accelerate with Jack: Ascend, WV: Rise Up, etc has just left me depressed. This would have been such a great adventure epic all the way through if it had just stayed focused on the original kids, Skaia, and Jack.
WHY DIDN'T SHE PLAY THE RAIN
>>84121797
>jade's character development literally gets retconned out of existence
Why does Paradox Space refuse to let her be happy?
>>84121745
No villain would ever have been better than Jack, anyways. Hussie really ought to have recognized that.
>>84121744
i dont think this was supposed to be hussie pointing out bad storytelling in the self aware way he did sometimes. i think it was supposed to be an instruction that we shouldn't be thinking lord english was going to turn up in the session or anything like that. he was nebulous, he was gonna stay nebulous, it was all intended.
it probably woulda been fine if the right amount of time had been spent making condy feel like the final boss for the alphas, and if jack actually did anything once he made it to the session. as it was lord english got all the lore despite being more of a secret boss than an endgame villain.
>>84120857
Killing the fanbase was a fantastic thing, what are you on about? We're well rid of the kind of people who encouraged Hussie to indulge in more trolls and more teen romance drama.
>>84121855
What a load of horseshit
Hussie did the 'point out glaring issue directly' to pre--empt any criticism of how he handles it; which surprise surprise he never fucking does
>>84121844
He seems to have realized this and just made Caliborn as likeable and heroic as he could.
>>84121891
yeah, my point is that he wasnt actually doing it this time.
REMOVE KARKAT
REMOVE
>>84121942
t. dyoni
>>84121923
Yeah, but that was all shit too. Caliborn updates were hilarious, but did absolutely nothing for the narrative, especially since LE just gets dunked on by Vriska in a flash.
Literally everything post-Scratch other than Roxy was a mistake.
>>84121744
it's things like this that make me think that the post-retcon stuff was ghost-written
>>84121953
i assume you think im shilling andrew and if so you should fucking read the post again. though i dunno why youd say im dyonoi since my post had nothing to do with davekat or strap ons
>>84121997
I still can't believe that he sidelined the actual main characters for years, and then just retconned what little development they did have during that period.
Homestuck was SO good when it legitimately was the story of the original kids. At least John didn't get run into the ground in the end, unlike the others.
>>84121855
I dunno, I think his plans of having LE being a final boss was already cemented at that point, it wasn't that long before GO. But who the fuck knows, Huss has given up every ounce of transparency and communication he had at one point.
>>84122004
>dyonoi
literally who?
>davekat or strap ons
LB?
>>84122051
he basically gave up on the user experience altogether
I mean, it used to be that after every major flash he would hold long Q&As and there were periodic recaps. I guess he came to the conclusion that that stuff wasn't helpful or entertaining but I have no idea why he would think that.
>>84121964
>other than roxy
Oh take your dick out of your pants, if Caliborn's a mistake so is she. Her awful broken powers also ruined the narrative.
>>84122134
Two words that will remove any and all doubt, anon.Vapidcunt
>>84120629
>aradia less than tavros
NO
ITS NOT FAIR
HES A WEENIE
HE
DOESNT
DESERVE HIS WORDCOUNT
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>84122051
act 7 was already in production by this point. i think its safe to say english was never gonna be a normal final boss given all the stuff about how he's unbeatable and can only be beaten with glitches. (((NOT SHILLING ANDREW DISCLAIMER: IM NOT SAYING HE WASNT HANDLED LIKE SHIT IN THE END)))
>>84122193
I THINK THIS GUY IS SHILLING ANDREW AND SAYING THE ENDING WASNT HANDLED LIKE SHIT
>>84122145
Believe me, I certainly agree that everything after Cascade was narratively a complete mess. Roxy's simply the only new character I enjoyed that served to push the narrative forward reasonably while also adding something to the earlier parts of the story. I'd happily see her gone if it meant a proper focus around the real main characters.
>Oh take your dick out of your pants
I think that you mean the opposite of this, anon.
>>84122193
>glitch
>its literally JUST caliborn's double edged sword that he knew about the whole time
wow so subverseve
>>84122193
>was never gonna be a normal final boss
He literally was, though.
>>84122236
yeah obviously andrew fucked up hard trying to write a good glitch. but it had to be some kind of glitch and not a proper fight or what would be the point of all the fucking build up
>>84122193
I agree that Hussie never intended for English to be a "normal" final boss but he's still the final boss and he's a far cry from nebulous. The fact that he's in Act 7 at all, and none of the other antagonists, makes him the most prominent villain. He was hyped up as the Big Bad End Boss since Act 5 and that's what he turned out to be. It was just anticlimactic as fuck.
>>84116610
The build up for him was great and him being the final villain was hype but it all got ruined in A6A6I5 and act 7 when the kids/trolls suddenly decided "we dont have to fight him!" and completely made him pointless.
he dont do anything really that makes him a bad guy besides destroying dreambubbles and I GUESS causing the kids session to be doomed by existing? but Bec noir did more damage then him.
I missed it when it was just Bec noir as the villain.
WHERE IS ARANEA
>>84122283
I'm still so fucking salty that Rose, Dave and John weren't the ones to take down Jack.
>>84122268
>what would be the point of all the fucking build up
Did you sincerely just ask that question
john performing sensual oral on vriska's bulging penis
>>84122268
in the end it wasn't even a glitch, it was just another fucking time loop
English was killed by a glitch in the same sense that John was saved by a glitch when Davesprite appeared
>>84122319
Go on
>>84122328
Well, technically the retcon powers were more than just a time loop, but I agree it's unsatisfying.
The fact that no one knows for certain whether the kids are also stuck in the cycle of fighting LE thanks to the Masterpiece is also a huge problem.
>>84122190
>le weenie
karkrap is the biggest weenie in the story with zero excuse for it (was he in a fucking wheelchair?!) and he has THE SINGLE MOST WORDS OF ANY CHARACTER
>>84122300
W-what about Jade?
>>84122303
i think im gonna fucking puke if i get another reply that seems to imply i thought the ending as it was was any better than a big dumb brawl with english. both ideas are shit. the real end was shit and a fight with english would have been shit too. andrew gave the impression he was a better writer than the fanbase during acts 1-5 and would think of something good to tie it up. clearly he didnt. but that doesnt mean that the idea of having english come to the session and start lasering people straight up isn't completely retarded and ignores what little was good about the character.
>>84122353
>Well, technically the retcon powers were more than just a time loop
that's what I thought but retcon powers being the reason for Lord English's creation shits all over that
it makes me so mad, the retcons are supposed to modify the existing story, but after caliborn's masterpiece it becomes clear that the story was already retconned from the outset
>>84122380
Yeah! Karkat deserves to be bullied by a million of doomed Vriskas!
>>84122398
Calm your tits i was japing about how hussie fucked up and dropped the ball on all kinds of shit that had tons of buildup
>>84118779
Dude Karkat was one the few Trolls to actually get some development that i liked. it was a bunch of self loathing but him trying to do good for his friends stuck on me...THEN IT GOT FUCKING RETCON CAUSE HUSSIE HAD TO HAVE HIS SPIDERWAIFU BACK IN THE STORY AND I GUESS WE BETTER PANDER SOME MORE TO THE GAYS LETS MAKE DAVEKAT HAPPEN, ALL THAT DEVELOPMENT? HA HA FUCK YOU
>>84122395
Jade doesn't have a personal stake in killing Jack, unlike the others.
>>84122447
ok. im breathin deep. everythings ok.
>>84122435
Hmmm, good point. Yeah, that makes absolutely no sense. Bravo, Hussie.
Thank god CANWC exists to keep me sane.
>>84122499
fuck off makin, it's shit
Here's a fun game, try and name as many characters as you can who actually improved thanks to the retcon! And no John or Roxy, that's cheating.
>>84122528
>saying roxy is cheating
What? Why? There's literally no logic behind that.
I think Hussie fucked up when it came to the whole of homestuck
It's obvious he was trying for an Earthbound/Mother-like, which is why he introduced the concept of Giygas being a threat in the future but vulnerable through exploiting his past, AKA Lord English and Caliborn and glitches
But the problem was that he made Caliborn a character instead of just building him up through interactions with characters who knew him
Undertale did this pretty well because it more resembled the flow of the story
What do you guys think
>>84122528
i wouldn't have minded the ending of homestuck waiting another year if it meant hussie didnt butcher it
>>84122554
because she wasn't retconned, she came from the Game Over timeline
>>84122528
jaspersprite
>>84122528
I literally can't think of a single character that wasn't neutered and made less interesting by the retcon
>>84122576
alright fine I GUESS
>>84122557
>which is why he introduced the concept of Giygas being a threat in the future but vulnerable through exploiting his past
The fucking Earthbound references don't stop, do they?
>>84122528
We all know perfectly well what the answer's going to be.
>>84122594
Hussie doesn't even like Earthbound
I think most references in Homestuck are just accidental
>>84122557
Caliborn absolutely never should have been a character, he completely destroyed any sense of menace or threat around LE.
>>84122557
i think he was trying to write a godlike figure based on the gnostic demiurge who both created and fucked up the whole story, but he made it really unclear and told it in an unsatisfying way.
>>84122609
But what about the name? Or the fact that he fucking has the Earthbound characters in two of the flashes?
>>84122609
the "accidental references" thing always sounded like such bullshit
like he didn't want people to know he watched TTGL and was just some sort of genius making accidental references
>>84122609
>I think most references in Homestuck are just accidental
Are you saying that the name Homestuck isn't a reference to earthbound
bound = restrained = stuck
>>84122528
>>84122613
Hussie not putting LE into any situations that involved menace or threat was the real issue, you doofball.
>>84122658
Vriska should have permadied in Act 5.
(ツ
>>84122613
I'm not happy about it either, but I can't complain about more derseships
>>84122613
The fact that caliborn actually went through a full trial and tribulation deal before getting his grand prize sure as shit didn't help.
Its pretty fucked when you're villain is shown actively accomplishing more than your protagonist.
>>84122567
but post-retcon roxy died
that's quite an improvement
>>84122613
that's assuming that Hussie ever had the capability to successfully pull off a villain like English. Caliborn is a pretty fucking good trade for a character that may have never been going anywhere to begin with.
>>84122634
>>84122652
I mean that he isn't a big fan. He's played the game so he'll make shallow references to it occasionally but I don't think it's the thematic underpinning for Homestuck like it was for Undertale.
>Earthbound characters in two of the flashes
Which ones?
>>84122658
:33 < do you think this is a meowtherfucking game?
>>84122671
Even if he had, knowing that LE was a closeted, childish retard completely undercut the aura of cosmic menace previously surrounding the character.
>>84122697
>Which ones?
The hidden room in return to the core iirc
With the hot john/vris sprite
>>84122676
>ツ
シット desu
>>84122557
Honestly i dont think introducing Caliborn was a bad idea. he did play a had at fucking up the Alpha kids session. I just think that his execution at trying to make him and LE menacing failed. maybe if he gave LE more speaking dialogue it'd might be better
>>84122731
gankro was behind the walkarounds so that might've been him
>>84122674
Vriska's death should have coincided with Jack's
She created him, she goes out with him.
>>84122697
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004692
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005221
Press Ctrl + T or Ctrl + Shift + T
>>84122716
And Jack was just a 'dog with sunglasses'
It's not even relevant anyway because we know that English is Caliborn + Arquius + Half of Gamzee, not to mention whatever influence Doc Scratch could have.
>>84122297
mmmmmmmm!!!!!!!! <33333333
ayy sorry buoy she a little BUSY
>>84122745
>I just think that his execution at trying to make him and LE menacing failed. maybe if he gave LE more speaking dialogue it'd might be better
I still think it's a bad idea, even if that was what he was going for
the more a villain talks, especially when it's a cosmic time manipulating demon, the less scary it is
The reason we barely see Jaws is because it's scarier to not know the face of our enemy
But then Hussie just said, "oh here's the character, he's a punk and a crybaby, gotta make sure all the important characters get development, Jade who?"
>>84122716
did knowing that jack was a one-dimensional stabby goon npc make him any less scary as a villain? caliborn's determination to succeed is a fucking frightening trait in a villain and lord english could have still been cosmically menacing as a grown up version of him.
>>84122734
>シット desu
?
>>84122806
excuse me? scary villains that talk don't exist?
>'It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again'
LE was really underwhelming. Seeing Aradia just stop him and choke him while he made that wacky face removed any sense of menace he had
>>84122788
>And Jack was just a 'dog with sunglasses
Jack was presented as a vile, vicious, and competent character who was clearly dangerous right from the start, and while he was certainly an object of comedy initially, he very quickly became and remained a highly credible threat.
Contrast to LE, where probably 95% of his screentime was absurd comedy where he was often the butt of the joke. There's really no comparison.
>>84122808
>did knowing that jack was a one-dimensional stabby goon npc make him any less scary as a villain?
No, it actually made him more threatening since this one dimensional murder machine achieved cosmic powers.
He also murdered multiple members of royalty, Prospit, derse, and another prospit, who the fuck know's how many dreamselves, and mom & dad right before rose & john could finally reunite.
He was at least initially portrayed as a huge threat to not just the players but also the the game they were effectively trapped in. When jack was on screen before fetchquest it meant shit was happening.
Compare that to LE who murdered a bunch of ghost we were told didn't matter and thats about it.
As viewers we don't have anything near the same sense of tension or stakes when comparing the two, muh hidden boss or not
>>84122875
bec noir had more dignity when he fought aradia
>>84122875
yes but it was worth it for my dick
We win again ram brothers
>>84122875
Aradia being able to time stop him is top tier bullshit
>>84122852
rhyme and riddles don't really count
Also, that movie wasn't as much of a scary movie as it was a psychological thriller
Also, buffalo bill wasn't even the scariest one, you would have made a better point if you said Hannibal Lecter, whom the MC talks with constantly
>>84122875
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005449
>>84122892
the point beng made isnt that le wasnt handled badly. the point is that caliborn wasnt the problem.
>>84122905
It's like stardust crusaders
you can't use your time powers until someone else is done using their time powers
>>84122875
>>84122894
The problem isn't the villain it's the act he appeared in
Keep in mind, Bec Noir was reduced from a menacing monster to 'haha the mailman is chasing him'
VILLIANS ARADIA HAS SLAIN
VRISKA
DEATH
JACK NOIR
LORD ENGLISH
FEFERI
ARADIA
IS
A
MARY SUE
>>84122928
fair enough
>>84122806
>the more a villain talks, especially when it's a cosmic time manipulating demon, the less scary it is
I disagree given how there is plenty of examples, small or big of villains speaking and are a god damn threat. you cant compare Jaws to LE. jaws is a god damn man eating shark.
The problem is the execution. hussie introduced a threat and pretty much did fuckall with him. hell the kids weren't even worried about LE so how are we suppose to care if our protagonist dont care?
