>>84003530
>There's still people that will call Watchmen the perfect adaptation despite Nite Owl being such an hunky and sleek mothercuker that could rival your average movie-Batman
One of the weirder changes the movie made. Why change it? I preferred the comic with Rorschach dying alone.
>>84003530
>hello darkness my old friend
>>84003693
It's cooler if the Justice League faces Lex Luthor and Batman mourns the death of The Question than whatever bullshit Moore made
>>84003693
The short explanation is that they wanted a more "cinematic" and thus dramatic scene
The long answer is that most people, including clearly the director, think of Rorschach as the awesome hero of the story and thus his death must be honoured properly
reading watchmen starting to notice how many panels are almost one for one in the movie its kinda neat.
>>84003736
Snyder managed to adapt scenes one for one and still miss the point of the comic entirely. It's almost impressive. Almost.
>>84003693
Because making Dan a complete shithead would alienate viewers
>>84003745
>the point of the comic
"ideological extremism is bad"
"Also look at all this incredible work
Gibbons did seriously just ignore that Moore guy he's crazy"
>>84003745
>"y-yeah fuck Snyder, a-am I cool guys? "
>>84003795
I thought he was pretty cool for taking such a bold, completely unprecedented stance on /co/ of all places. /co/!
>>84003795
Watchmen really wasn't the comic about how cool dudes look in slow-mo while fighting baddies.
>>84003716
Give it to me straight. How badly did Hack Snyder miss the point?
>>84003850
He cut Hollis Mason's death scene from the theatrical version
Like I get that you have to save time but maybe abridge the Silk Spectre/Nite Owl sex scene instead of leaving Hollis Mason's death for the director's cut
>>84003827
>that scene at the end where Ozymandias is Matrix-fighting Nite Owl and Rorschach at the same time while delivering exposition about his evil plans
It's pretty amazing how Snyder is completely unable to understand the source material he's adapting. Anyone with even a passing familiarity should have looked at that scene and slapped the script out of Snyder's hands.
Snyder can't let a scene go by without something "epic" or "cool" going on. I can't wait to see how he adapts The Fountainhead once he actually reads it and finds out there's no cool explosions or karate in it.
>>84003864
>The Fountainhead
Why am I not surprised that Snyder is an objectivist?
>>84003864
Well, Snyder's version of the Fountainhead would probably be a lot better than the actual book. Maybe it'll be a three hour long music video where someone gets lobotomized at the end.
Shit basically goes Stranger in a Strange Land >>>>>>> Dianetics > The Fountainhead in terms of readability.
>>84003791
It was nothing to do with ideological extremism, the point was that utilitarian decision making has to be tempered with foresight, honesty, and humility, not mere brilliance. "Don't do things just because you can" and "don't fuck with shit". The joke was that for all of Veidt's impressive accomplishments and his boundless personal perfection, apparently he couldn't comprehend the fact that the status quo wouldn't be changed, just put on hold. His conceit was that he thought he could do anything, a "hero" to the end. I mean, he caught a fucking bullet, that wasn't simply in the comic just because it was a cool moment, it was a point-blank (heh) reference to this.
>>84003693
How else would the audience know how they were supposed to feel at that moment?
>>84003874
>It was nothing to do with ideological extremism
Then explain Rawshark and Veidt existing in the same book, anon
They both represent ethical dead-ends
>>84003891
SAD MUSIC, you silly goon.
>>84003874
Hell, Veidt's superhero name should be a dead fucking giveaway. Ozymandias's legacy in the poem was doomed to be swallowed by the desert sands until nothing was left.
>>84003895
>kino
Go away /tv/
>>84003913
>Veidt's superhero name should be a dead fucking giveaway
A dead giveaway that his empire of dirt would crumble into nothing.
Utilitarian decision-making is not very conducive to giant statues. In fact I would say it's hostile to them.
>>84003869
It makes BvS make a lot more sense once you know that. Superman's characterisation becomes understandable once you realise he's some kind of Randian god-creature deigning to help the huddled masses who can't appreciate his pure majesty and supremacy.
No wonder Snyder loves Injustice.
>>84003874
And the movie replaces that with Matthew Goode's sneering supervillain.
Goode is an excellent actor but that is one of the worst miscasting jobs I've ever seen in a movie. It's just so wrong on every level, even worse then the plank-of-wood performance we got out of Laurie.
>>84003931
The only motherfuckers in that movie who had any Charisma were the guy who played Hollis, Dan, Mickey from Seinfeld and Jackie Earl Haley as Rorschach.
>>84003850
He tried to make it cool. That's the biggest problem that explains most dissonances with the comic. And that's all on Snyder, because if you try to adapt the comic panel-to-panel of course the changes are going to be much more jarring
Manhattan is supposed to be the only superhuman? The scene where Veidt manages to catch a bullet is supposed to be shocking?
Well, fuck you, comic, imma make a retired, almost senile Comedian break walls with his fists and survive a 5 minutes beating from Ozy, Rorschach can do backflips and retired Nite Owl can break people's bones with a fist and smiles about it (btw, you like the gore right? That burst of blood toward the audience was pretty cool, right? Rorschach stabbing that guy's skull was more cool than just burning down his house, right?)
Dan is supposed to look like a pathetic, fat fuck?
Well, fuck you, comic, imma give that fucker one of the coolest costumes in superhero cinema, and the perfect physique for it. He's so cool he can afford to wear the trunks. Batman was never allowed to wear trunks!
The space-squid and humanity's reaction to it is supposed to be irrational and absurd, partially because it's a commentary about Cold War and partially because Veidt plan is not supposed to be exactly sound and long-lasting? The entirety of the last act is supposed to be like the characters entering a comic world with comic logic where "peak humans" suddenly can catch bullets and mutant-cats are a thing?
Well, fuck you, comic, my shit is *realistic*, Manhattan is going to be the scapegoat because that's more logic and less cringey. I'll keep the cat tho, that looks cool
But something tells me you don't really care
>>84003931
>It makes BvS make a lot more sense once you know that. Superman's characterisation becomes understandable once you realise he's some kind of Randian god-creature deigning to help the huddled masses who can't appreciate his pure majesty and supremacy.
But Supes' arc in that trainwreck involves him choosing humanity over godhood.
The Randian hero (aka professional cunt) would have let Earth pick up its own mess, rather than dying for Earth's sins.
In fact Randian objectivism is so completely incompatible with the shitty Donner-Snyder Superchrist interpretation of Superman I don't know how you could possibly read objectivism into BVS.
>>84003947
>Mickey from Seinfeld
It was a small role though.
>>84003947
I enjoyed most of the performances, honestly. I know they aren't all accurate but for the most part they all do their jobs well.
Laurie and Adrian are big, glaring flaws though. Malin Ackerman is a pretty good comedic actress but fucking shit, she's so bad in that movie.
>>84003959
>I don't know how you could possibly read objectivism into BVS.
The entire first two acts are about Superman being judged by his lessers, being forced to answer for things by people both Snyder and by extension the audience do not respect. The government is shown to be filled with incompetents or corrupt buffoons. Even Lex blowing up the Senate hearing was a "cool" fuck-you moment in the filmmaking.
And the last act of that movie makes literally no sense from a narrative, character and thematic standpoint, so it's not that surprising that it doesn't fit in thematically with the rest of the movie.
>>84003988
I think Adrian's casting was based entirely on the fact that he was possibly homosexual (pending further investigation).
Beefy manly bara possible homosexuals like the book's Adrian are no longer fashionable, so we got a limp, lisping possible homosexual instead.
>>84004000
It's a shame because I love Matthew Goode, the guy is a great actor in literally everything else he's been in.
But the guy radiated pure malice. It's the exact reason why he was so good in Stoker, he has the perfect look for the sort of Sinister, smug European sociopath style that film was going for. But that's exactly why he was such bad casting for Ozy, anyone who's never read the comics could watch the movie and figure out he was the villain as soon as he walks on-screen.
>>84003530
This should have been he ending.
>>84004022
STRONG TOGETHER
UNITED FOREVER
THEY'RE THE BEST OF FRIENDS
>>84003693
I guess they wanted to make NiteOwl less of a horny selfish dweeb.
>>84004035
HAVE NO FEAR
TIME'S UP TIME'S HERE
FOR THE WATCHMEEEEEEEEEEEN
PSHAW!
And so, Dr. Manhattan and Rorschach warned the people of the globe of Adrian's misdeeds then went out to get some pizza.
>>84004021
I never read menace off his Adrian until the finale, when he was outright capering. He seemed very genuine.
Was it the slight accent? I find that many viewers regard blondes with an accent as INHERENTLY EVIL.
>>84004021
Honestly Adrian in the comics seems like a genuinely warm and friendly guy. Which made his reveal all the more shocking.
>>84004048
>PSHAW!
It's "WATCH OUT!"Isn't it funny how Johns actually ended up filling Rebirth with "watch" puns
>>84003795
zack snyder is a terrible director by just about any metric you want to use and one of the dumbest people working in hollywood right now
he was before people were memeing about it and i don't see him changing anytime soon
>>84003530
i cant work out why he changed the ending sure it was silly but the moment you think this is silly you should realize that was the point.
synder had weeks to think it over
>>84004067
He probably thought it was funny
Johns is such a goddamn goof, I bet his wife's eyes are tired from all the rolling they have to do at his inevitable breakfast table puns
>>84004067
Sorry I haven't listened to SMW in such a long time.
fuck it im sick of wasting my time trying to find a dvd of this im just going to take the hit to my bandwith see how horrible it is
>>84004053
It's not even his accent, just the way he carries himself. There's just something inherently menacing in a lot of his performances.
Though Snyder's direction and the screenplay didn't help any. The scene they added where Ozy blows those oil and energy executives the fuck out with the power of his superior intellect was such a terrible addition.
>We need to show how smart Ozymandias is, but you know, make it fucking BADASS
>>84004095
Are you kidding, my lizard brain loved that part.
>ha ha ha take that you rich bigwigs
>you and your oil opec monolopolizations and your tax job cuts
>democrats
>>84004053
Cold colors, sarcastic looks, gaunt appearance. It screams villain.
Look at the comic's golden boy. He's fully fleshed, wrapped in warm colors and he jokes with his audience, not at them.
>>84004128
>Cold colors
How could you tell, everything in the movie was blue thanks to the filter
>>84003530
>tfw Batman already raped the Comedianfor you
>>84004094
oh god he changed the opening the fuck was he thinking
>>84004186
The opening is literally the only good part though
>>84004127
So did mine, but it was still fucking stupid in-context.
Despite how much I bitch about the movie I still like it, if only because of how weird it was and the fact that it got made at all. The idea that WB produced a 3-hour R-rated adaptation of an unadaptable book directed by a lunatic and starring a bunch of B-tier character actors who mostly starred in depressing indie dramas up to that point is interesting to me, I can't believe anyone actually signed-off on making it.
It's the least-commercial blockbuster I can think of, and even though I think large sections of it don't work I still enjoy it and admire that it even exists.
>>84003530
I actually liked some changes in the movie and found them better than in the comics.
For example Dan who was supposed to be the rich guy who is doing heroism for the kicks which was way too obvious in the comics and make the character seem unnecessary, same with Lori by being the legacy character who only took the cape because her mother forced her to, eventhough she was just a selfish and naive cunt which was obvious as well. I didn't care at all about those characters in the comics from the very beginning and the message was obvious from the first time you see them.
Dan in the movie was somewhat the same, his friendship to Rorschach was a nice addition to the character, made him seem more like a genuine character instead of a parody of an character archetype, which is way I found Rorschachs death better in the movie, also how Dan attacked Ozzy after that.
Another scene I found better was the discussion between Lori and Dr. Manhattan on mars, in the comics Lori was talking and talking about herself like the egocnetric cunt she is and Dr. Manhattan is then like "yeah, you are really special", the scene in the movie was better only because it was shorter, also it was more convincing that Dr. Manhattan thought Lori was special and worth getting back to earth for.
I also didn't like how Ozzy got insecure at the end after Dr. Manhattan said nothing ever ends, of course it has more weight when someone who can see in the future says something like this but Ozzy is the smartest man in the world and should know peace doesn't last forever and even if Dr. Manhattan was implying a certain event will occur in a not so far future, Ozzy should've know what that means and nothing will change that.
>>84003864
I know people use "cringe" as a buzzword, but I actually cringed during that scene.
It felt like taking what is supposed to be a serious scene and making it super-cheesy and not even in a fun way. It was so embarrassing to watch.
>>84004195
Ok yeah I will admit I was to hasty to judge it having seen it now
Great soundtrack so far
>>84004209
I liked the end in the movie way better, where Ozzy lamented all the deaths and let himself get beat up by Dan. Also Snyder did exaggerate somewhat whit the action but I didn't think it made much difference, the watchmen still survived an era as heroes in a somewhat realistic world, Dan and Lori actually did defeat several criminals at once without taking much damage, Ozzy actually did catch the bullet, Snyder only oversylized those events like he always tends to.
The only change I didn't like from the movie is that they made Dr. Manhattan the villian because I'm damn sure everyone would blame America, eventhough Dr. Manhattans function is still the same as the squid, which means a constant threat to the world and a common enemy.
>>84004235
Did love the soundtrack.
Last thread people bitched about that too.
>>84003864
>Ozymandias is Matrix-fighting Nite Owl and Rorschach at the same time while delivering exposition about his evil plans
That's pretty much how it goes in the comic.
Veidt keeps spouting exposition while calmly dominating Dan and Rorschach.
It's supposed to show how ridiculous the gap between them is.
>>84004186
I always imagined that dollar bills cape got stuck in the bottom of the door
>>84004260
>I'm not a republic serial villain
>spends the entire five minutes beforehand acting like a republic serial villain
>>84004260
In the comic the fight lasts for about 30 seconds and then they all just talk to each other. Ozy barely has to get out of his chair to take them both down.
He's not Matrixing them both while monolouging and twirling his moustache for five minutes straight. The comic presents the idea far stronger then the movie does, it can barely even be qualified as a fight because of how hard and fast Adrian stomps them both and then it transitions into a conversation.
>>84004209
>>84004252
as one of the few who liked the movie in a way, the ending for Rorshach was pretty well done, and 9/10 costumes all around.
>>84004275
Wait what what caused the explosion in the store to be so big
>>84004330
Transition explosion. It wasn't that important.
>>84004195
>the music video was the only good part of the music video directors movie
Shocking
>>84004209
It's supposed to be satire. if you think playing the characters straight was a good thing, you missed the point of the book.
>>84004209
I agree with everything except for the ozzy part. Manhattan's final words to him as Ozzy is lamenting his actions, wondering if what he did was right was probably my favourite part of the book.
But yeah, I think as far as comic book adaptations go it's a really good attempt, I really really hated the glorifying fight scenes (especially the slow mo prison scene what the hell). Aside from that though.
>>84004209
>his friendship to Rorschach was a nice addition to the character
That's in the comic.
>the scene in the movie was better only because it was shorter
It's pretty brief in the comic too. Mostly set up... that has been building up through the entire story.
>I also didn't like how Ozzy got insecure at the end after Dr. Manhattan said nothing ever ends
Ozymandias is a self centered fuck who's so wrapped up in his vision of salvation that he refuses to believe it could fail. This kind of determination makes him succeed.
It's not that Doc can see into the future that bothers him. It's the simple philosophical statement. Ozymandias succeeded and he claims that he made himself feel every one of those deaths. But when it's all said and done that starts weighing heavily on him.
He made the password obvious so he'd have an audience. He needed someone to validate his work. And Doc's statement just puts his greatest fear in words. The end justifies the means... but his goal was for humanity not to end.
So his holocaust was not justified. Regardless of his achievements, he ended thousands of lives. And nothing is going to erase that.
Also...
It's far more meaningful for Dan and Laurie to accept part of Adrian's load, because now that the plan is a done deal, trying to go against it will only make the entire sacrifice pointless.
Rorschach is the only one who's unable to see that fact because of his limited mentality.
And EVEN THEN! he asks to be executed as Kovacs, because even Rorschach knew that trying to reveal the truth was a bad thing. Rorschach couldn't quit, but Kovacs could.
>>84004330
You know I never really noticed in the comic the changing patterns on the mask.
I always just assumed the material was special for a difrent reason
>>84004277
It's a pretty humorous moment, yes.
>>84004307
Yes, of course the comic does it better. But among all the things the movie fucks up, the point of that scene is still kept.
>>84004368
>You know I never really noticed in the comic the changing patterns on the mask.
>I always just assumed the material was special for a difrent reason
... even though it's explicitly stated when Rorschach tells Dr. Long about the "origin" of Rorschach?
You might need to read Watchmen again.
sometimes when I re-read the comics, I switch to the movie at certain scenes, like Mason's death, dr. Manhattans transformation and Rorschach's death. Also the pirate comics sequence.
>>84004389
I think I might
>>84003621
Thinking well...
Didi it work /co/?
Because Night Owl deserved to be with his friend when he died.
>>84003697
>>84004022
errytime
>>84004418
Mason's death is probably one of the examples of badass when it doesn't really call for it that people mention is wrong with the movie. I appreciated seeing and old timer relive little moments of his glorious past and going out with a fight but in the comic it was incredibly sudden and very disheartening. I had to put the story down and soak it in when it happened. One of those 'it's not fucking fair,' reality is harsh kind of moments that the comic does well to present.
>>84003931
Goode should have been Luthor
>>84003894
Go ask your genders study professor
You missed the entire point of the book
>>84006286
Realistically, Mason would still have his fighting skills. The guys attacking him were punks, so he could beat them up.
>>84005441
He wasn't Rorschach's friend, he was his keeper, and he had given up the job long ago.
>>84006388
The thing was that he was surprised and overwhelmed, and people no matter how skilled don't do well in those situations
>>84006624
>and people no matter how skilled don't do well in those situations
except people train exactly for those situations, that is the whole point of self-defense and Mason trained beyond that.
>>84006714
People aren't complete machines. They get caught off guard and sometimes they can't get back on their feet and recover no matter how much training and experience they have. He was an old man opening the door to treat what he thought was a group of kids costuming in Halloween when he got rushed by a group of thugs. Fighting back is a realistic response, but so is being immediately and completely overwhelmed.
Someone explain to me why the doc hesitated to kill rorschack.
>>84008574
Tachyon field made Doc's vision of the future unclear thanks to Ozy M. Daddy Dias. Doc acts according to what is and will be and he was unsure if killing Rorscharch was an inevitable event so he fought himself over whether to do it or not.
>>84008660
Is that why?
Huh, I always thought it was because he still had some human in him left, Ed did say how disconnected the doc was from humans and humanity and I actually thought that scene was a small subtle way of showing Ed maybe he was wrong after all after being right about a lot of other things.
>>84008736
I'd like to think that his sentiment also got in the way of doing it as well. If I were a god like being who said I'd help Ozy's plan stay successful I wouldn't hesitate to murder a man about to ruin everything. If I murder Rorschach then time must have surely wanted to happen and I wouldn't have a second thought about it. But he hesitated.It really isn't gay to like futa.
One thing I really like about Watchmen is how everyone interprets it in such a diffrent way.
I watched it with my dad recently and he saw some scenes like Dr. Manhatten intervening in Vietnam as a way of showing what if we used a nuke to win in Vietnam to stop the spread of communism.
Also when the scene came up how Dr. Mahhatten would give cancer to people he came near he thought was some kind of way of showing that the progression we make through science where we have a lot of radiation from our everyday machines will be what causes outbreaks of cancer and Dr. Manhatten was the perfect embodiment of radioactive energy.
Really interesting talk I had with my dad.
>>84008921
It sounds nice to talk to an older person more familiar with the time period about their thoughts on the story. That's pretty cool.
>>84003697
I can never tell which of the two is supposed to be right, but I'd trust Manhattan.
>>84003791
>didn't get that Watchmen was an obvious genre deconstruction and barely any of these elements were in the movie in any meaningful way
>>84003795
>>84010022
Rorschach had too much of a black and white view on sexuality. Just because you like masturbating to the sight of a woman with a cock fucking another woman (who also has a cock), doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy watching men fuck.
>>84006388
In case you didn't notice, Mason was an elderly man. The guys attacking him were punks, but in their prime.
No matter how much skill you got, it ain't gonna prepare you for being rushed by a bunch of guys in much better shape.
>>84010022
Manhattan is far too much a slave of nature to really have a moral compass. He only develops a sense of personal judgement and opinion when you throw some Tachyons his way. And that opinion is that futa aint gay.
Bit still >>84010383 is right and Rorschach is too narrow minded to really be trustworthy.
And that's kind of the point. Every one of them has something about them that makes their perspective look very bias or flawed. Except Manhattan since futa is completely straight.
>>84003697
Rorschach's blood looks like an actual rorschach
>>84003871
Why would you included Stranger with those other books?
>>84010861
Holy fuck
>>84008574
He just learned that life is a precious and unique thing.
He could have exploded Veidt too, but didn't.
>>84013614
Fuck is this?
>>84012568
At that point it wouldnt have done anything. For a guy who had a hard time empathizing with humans I feel like at that point it just wasn't worth the effort to him. He came back to help but it was too late so there really wasn't anything to do except stop Rorschach from making it worse.
>>84013665
>Like
Spawn of a prostitute, and dog food.
>>84013862
Oh
>>84013614
Oh...
>>84013913
kek
>>84013862
That's not funny
>>84006358
>Go ask your genders study professor
He said "Rawshark hates chicks"
>>84008660
>Tachyon field made Doc's vision of the future unclear thanks to Ozy M. Daddy Dias. Doc acts according to what is and will be and he was unsure if killing Rorscharch was an inevitable event so he fought himself over whether to do it or not.
But killing Rorschach WAS inevitable, as was Adrian blocking Dr. Manhattan's time vision, and all the actions that Dr. Manhattan took during the period that his vision was blocked.
Doc Man's power only works if the Watchmen universe functions on linear, deterministic time, and if it does, everything is predetermined whether or not he "sees" it
>>84011000
Because Stranger in a Strange Land was basically Heinlein following up on Dianetics, only his newfangled peacenik grokking religion didn't take. It took better than the Fountainhead (no one in the academe, Ayn Rand's target, takes objectivism seriously, while Stranger in a Strange Land contributed significantly to the free love and/or tons of drugs subculture) but nowhere near as well as Dianetics.
There's a story that L. Ron Hubbard and Heinlein had a bet to see who could found a religion based on a book they wrote first. It's not a true story, but it's got staying power.
>>84004073
I'll be one of those few who defends changing the ending.
The squid takes a lot of setup. Reading Watchmen, there is so much put in place building up to that reveal, that image of New York destroyed and the bloated carcass atop the bodies and blood. Moore had 12 issues plus the addendums at the end of each chapter to foreshadow, develop, and properly build to that. In a 2-2.5 hour movie, you just don't have that time.
Making the plot revolve around Dr. Manhattan is efficient in a story-telling sense, since he's already such a huge part of the story and the universe. It doesn't have the same visual impact, but it "makes sense" as a narrative compromise.
I don't hate the movie, it's probably the best adaptation that could've happened (read David Hayter's script, where at the end all the characters end up in the "real" New York City) and Snyder, for all his many, many misunderstandings of the material, at least was passionate about the material. There's something endearing about that; it was flawed and sometimes misguided, but at least it wasn't soulless. Besides, the Dr. Manhattan sequence on its own is a brilliant little short, and the opening montage is classic, though I don't think Snyder had much at all to do with it.
The comic is undoubtedly superior, and it's so dependent on the visual language of comics that trying to adapt it to film at all is pretty wrongheaded no matter who's at the helm.
>>84013913
Does Snyder have a fetish for this expression? It's in all of his crap!
>>84014475
>the opening montage is classic, though I don't think Snyder had much at all to do with it.
I dunno man
The guy did music videos for a living and his movies tend to be a handful of cool scenes strung along by a slipshod plot
The opening, where he didn't have to worry so much about plot as making a love letter to a time period that never existed, feels like he could have had a lot to do with it
>>84014353
>Doc Man's power only works if the Watchmen universe functions on linear, deterministic time, and if it does, everything is predetermined whether or not he "sees" it
>According to Manhattan, all off time is simultaneous
>Every instance of time in the Watchmen Universe are the pages of the comic for they all exist at once
>Doc's powers allow peeking at the next pages
>Tachyons just prevent spoilers
>>84014533
I could've sworn it was done by the same guy who did the Dawn of the Dead opening, but maybe I'm misremembering.
>>84014475
I should also add that changing the ending to fit around Dr. Manhattan is fine, but it would've been better had the rest of the movie better understood the source material and worked it to congeal with the themes, mood, etc.
And not been like the fucking prison fight sequence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0SarFs60w
>>84014677
Well linear time is just how consciousness interacts with space
Actual time is just All Things, always already happening in an eternal unbounded Now
Also who wants to go get fries or something
>>84014475
>read David Hayter's script, where at the end all the characters end up in the "real" New York City
Wait, what?
>>84014725
Fries would be nice with my ever expanding view and understanding of intangible mechanics in which we perceive our universe. But my idea of Manhattan simply being able to read the comic itself is kind of an interesting way to view his powers and how he perceives time.
He's literally the embodiment of Third Person Objective. If he read minds he would be Omniscient. Can he read minds?
>>84014732
Shit, I had it a bit mixed up. Hayter's script had some retarded changes, though.
>Laurie Juspeczyk is called Silk Spectre in the comics, but this version has her codename as being "Slingshot." This is explained by having Doctor Manhattan given her the power to sling balls of energy as a birthday present.
>Instead of the 1985 setting used in the comics, the script takes place in 2004. Whereas The Comedian had fought in World War Two, Korea, and Vietnam, Hayter has it stated that Blake fought in the last days of the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, and Iraq. The United States' conflict with Russia is changed to one with Afghanistan, and all references to the Communists are replaced with Middle Eastern terrorists.
It's the Sam Hamm script with the New York ending. Veidt's plan is to kill Jon before he becomes Dr. Manhattan.
>In the end, Veidt is vaporized by the machine as he attempts to return to the 1960s. Having regained his humanity, Doctor Manhattan sacrifices himself by going back in time to save his former self from becoming disintegrated and reformed, giving Jon Osterman the chance for a happy life with Janey Slater. The timeline is readjusted so that America does not win the Vietnam War, Richard Nixon resigns from the presidency after the Watergate Scandal, nuclear war with Russia is averted, and costumed heroes are confined to the pages of comic books. However, Rorschach, Nite Owl, and Silk Spectre are transported to New York City in the late 1980s where Watchmen is a successful comic book maxi-series. As they create a sensation from the local pedestrians due to their uniforms standing out of place, a group of policeman descend upon them. The script then ends with Rorschach hissing at the cops, implying that they will fight back.
>>84014903
>Rorschach hissing
>>84014903
Eh, updating the stage wasn't too bad an idea, at least he was being faithful to the core idea of it all. Granted, it was better that they kept the original year/setting even if plenty of the moviegoers were brainless kids who probably don't know there was a first World War.
>>84003697
Rorschach was right. Again.
>>84014903
>>84014954
>Rorschach hissing
At the metaphorical penis of "the man" or something?
>>84003697
Rorschach was right.
>>84014903
>The Slingshot idea
Fuck I'm losing it
>The Sam Hamm Script
>Get approached by the cops for looking like retards in public
>Fighting back
top fucking zozzle
>>84003697
>>84014903
>However, Rorschach, Nite Owl, and Silk Spectre are transported to New York City in the late 1980s where Watchmen is a successful comic book maxi-series. As they create a sensation from the local pedestrians due to their uniforms standing out of place, a group of policeman descend upon them. The script then ends with Rorschach hissing at the cops, implying that they will fight back.
Is this the guy that wrote Burton's Planet of the Apes or what
>>84015208
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hamm
>He also wrote unused drafts for Planet of the Apes and Watchmen adaptations.
My man.
>>84010383
I love you
is "missing the point" the worst criticism of a film based on a book?
a) Its the reader who decides what the point is, not the writer
b) the film can make any kind of "point" it wants when compared to the book
c) Watchmen isn't a deep book...literally everyone got the "point". Zach got the "point"...the 14 year olds who read Watchman comics GET THE FUCKING POINT
>bbbbbbbuut muh fight scene
grow up kiddo, it was an artistic choice.
Also FUCK YOU THE SQUID ALWAYS SUCKED.
Comic Book fans are so overly protective of alan moore because they think he's the only writer that gives their childish hobby some legitimacy
>>84014985
The stage is yet another character in Watchmen.
Switching things around just so "modern audiences" will have more clear points of reference is missing the point of why the author chooses that specific time for his story to take place in.
Sometimes the setting IS irrelevant. But not in any story that actually draws inspiration from real events.
You end up deforming the story if you sacrifice that just to appeal to the most common denominator. Not getting the references should be a good cue to stop reading and look it up, to enrich the story and your own life.
>>84016631
Depends. If the current stage is written as well as the original, it can work.
>>84014704
The prison fight is good.
Note Dan and Laurie's interaction.
Yes, it's a bit over the top, but it's them finally embracing being superheroes again
>>84003978
Tall order
>>84003621
Is Shuma-Lorgath a variant of Shuma Gorath?>>84005417
Yes, but with Rebirth it's possible they found a counter-mage namedCereal Kingto reverse the spell.
>>84003663
>the actor refused to wear a fat suit and tried to gain weight.
Is is a Snyder cure for actors to not be able to gain weight?
>>84004209
Have ro agree on the part with Dan and Rorschach, I feel like they were more tight in the movie while in the comic it was mostly one sided friendship on Rorschach's part with Dan trying to be nice.
Also Dan reacting to Rorschach's death and being angry about it, Rorschach following Dan after the Comedian's funeral partially because he was concerned about Dan's safety, Dan fixing Rorschach's lapelle during the Crimebuster's meeting, then there was Rorschach pulling Dan away from beating that guy who was involved in Hollis' death, maybe it was the actors but I felt genuine friendship and affection between the two.
>>84018133
I agree with this too. The movie did a lot of things wrong, but rewriting Dan and Rorschach's relationship wasn't one of them.
If Dan hadn't sperged out with his big NOOOO at the end and reacted much like how Rorschach himself had reacted to Blair Roche's death (dazed, traumatized, cold) it would have been a flawless scene.
>>84004209
Laurie's problem is that she's a boring character surrounded by people who are much more interesting than she is. Her other problem and probably the biggest one is that you can tell Moore didn't know what to do with her or how to write her. I don't know if he just can't write women or what, but everything that comes out of her stupid mouth reads like something out of an 80s women's lib pamphlet.
Darwyn Cooke and Amanda Conner wrote a much better Silk Spectre in their Before Watchmen run.
>>84010861
POTTERY
>>84004022
Every fucking time.
>>84013913
>>84018133
>I felt genuine friendship and affection between the two
Yeah, you're not supposed to. Rorschach is too fucked up to be able to foster a friendship
>>84018133
I felt there was friendship between the two in the comic but yes the movie expanded more on that and it didn't feel as stunted.
Then again Rorschach is a really stunted person so having a functioning relationship with him is a really hard thing to do because the guy is difficult to be with and it doesn’t help poor Dan that he's kind of a door mat himself.
But the fact that Rorschach casually let himself into Dan's house and ate his food and waited for him to pop up was a sign that Rorschach trusted him.
Dan was also the only person who treated Rorschach good and like a decent human being and dispite Rorschach being upset with him for quitting and treated him badly for it he does like Dan, and he does apologize to him for being mean.
And then they had that awkward handshake which mirrors Dan and Laurie's awkward handshake in which Dan holds onto her hand for too long because he likes her meaning that Rorschach really liked Dan and also held on to his hand for long because of it (also the only positive physical touching he gets in the story is the ones he exchanges with Dan).
I am certain had Dan died in the story it would have gotten Rorschach as badly as Blaire's death and if Ozymandias had been responsible for it he would have gone at him full force.
>>84018689
He does with Dan though, as genuine as he can get at least, and it is demonstrated in the comics through the handshake and Rorschach apologizing to Dan for being rude towards him.
>>84018892
Makes me wonder why Ozy Osborn didn't kill Dan and Laurie considering they learned everything and he had killed literally everyone else involved.
>>84018989
Wasn't it because his plan was already in motion and it didn't matter? Sure, they could have squealed, but who was going to believe only TWO people? Sure, Rorschach was taken out for attempting to reveal the truth, but he had all kinds of ways to get his truth out.
>>84019073
They seem to be much more credible sources than the man painted to be a complete whackjob. Yet he's the one taken out.
>>84003795
Fuck off summerfag
>>84016631
This is an argument for keeping Frank Castle a Vietnam Vet.
>>84019633
Nah. Frank Castle is a franchise character. The specifics of his origin story are largely irrelevant to his actions.
>>84019189
Again though, the whackjob is the one who will do his damndest to get the truth out. Rorschach probably didn't even care if people believed him right away, long as he sowed doubt amongst the populace and got some to start seeking the truth, the real truth.
>>84019782
Expose a crime, not get "the truth" out. Rorschach is small minded.
>>84019818
Still, he's the one who will break arms to make any outlet he can strongarm print about what really happened. The others would try to stay within the boundaries of the law they believe in upholding despite having just complied with hiding numerous crimes, treason being one of them.
>>84010861
>>84011040
>>84018545
really makes u think
>>84019956
The others are not psychotics who can actually use their noggins to figure out that trying to reveal what really happened will only end up doing more harm than good.
Also do note that Laurie and Dan don't give a shit about the law since at the end they're basically runaway criminals.
It's more important to consider the motivation behind the actions rather than the actions themselves to judge how "noble" they are. Or not.
>>84020052
>I Just Like My Women With Cocks.jpg
>>84020054
Really depends on how long it takes to get the truth out. If everything was revealed immediately, shit probably would collapse on itself. However, if it took many years, it'd be kind of interesting to see what would happen. It seems unlikely that learning the peace was forced by an elaborate scheme would result in everyone just going back to where they were ages ago, though it doesn't rule out the possibility of everyone just turning on each other and being distrustful of everybody until they are all dead.
>>84018989
It didn’t matter in the end if they had to or not, had they known before the olan was set in motion he would have.
>>84020052
Kind of looks like a Japanese character.
>>84003530
One peron gave a shit about Rorschach I guess.
>>84020338
Nah, a tiny chunk of him flew into Owlman's throat and he swallowed it. Probably tasted only half as bitter as Rorschach.
Okay, so who were the characters supposed to be before they went with them being new?
>Nite Owl was Blue Beetle
>Rorschach was the Question
>Silk Spectre was Black Canary?
>Dr. Manhattan was Firestorm?
>>84020974
>Manhattan was Firestorm
I thought he was Captain Atom?
>>84003530
Why do you think he's so sad? Did he want to be teleported too? John McManhattan keeps teleporting people all the time and yet he never TPs the Owlman. Is he still mad that he took Julie to the nest?
>>84020052
Up close it looks like an angel, but from the thumbnail it looks like the mask from Splatter House.
>>84020991
You're right.
>>84020974
Silk Spectre was Night Shade.
>>84020974
Doc Manhattan was Captain Atom.
>>84003693
I think it worked since it later showed Dan taking off the mask. It went full circle - from a character being dependent on the superhero suit to one who realized the flaws of the superhero mentality.
The following scene was another good contrast - in the movie (not the comic) it was Dan who warned Veidt about the conspiracy. By having Dan attack and rebuke Veidt, it was a reversal on that earlier scene.
The only thing id change is have Dans outrage be silent with tragic music playing over, as he cries in slow mo. That would be cinematic and far better than the noooooo
>>84021389
The changes also make Dan look far less like a unconcerned, flippant asshole.
>>84010861
That means you're gay.
>>84021494
He's in shock. And he assumes he'll come back around on account of having no way out. Archie went down. Even if he could find him it'd do him no good.
>>84003530
>>84003693
It always bothered me how they never showed Owl's reaction to his death, which suggests he didn't have an ounce of caring for his old companion that he went so far as to try and spring him out of jail.
Then again, Snyder's version felt very, very, off. The scream seemed a bit much, and I didn't like how the camera just had him standing there awkwardly with his hands raised.
>>84003931
>And the movie replaces that with Matthew Goode's sneering supervillain.
I wish we could have had Aaron Eckhart as Ozy.
>>84003697
A man willing to die for being right is a hero.
Way to tell off the degenerates, Rory
Why doesn't Bueno Excellente just rape Dr. Manhattan?
>>84018689
I will never understand why Moorefags are such joyless fucking creatures.
What's wrong with Rorschach and Dam having a flawed but meaningful relationship? Literally, name one thing wrong with it. From where I'm standing, it just serves to better show how much of a deeply sad character Rorschach is. Here you have this unstable, hopelessly broken guy who's been a victim of abuse his entire life, but he's somehow still able to have a bond with a genuinely nice, sincere person. It humanized him and shows that there's still a good person hidden under all the baggage.
>>84022461
Manhattan already raped himself with himself
>>84022563
Thats not rape, its masturbation!
>>84003956
the comic ending was legit stupid though
>>84022461
I am disappointed, Gordon. Very disappointed. Restructuring my asshole after the prolapse of my anus was the first trick I learned. It didn't kill Osterman... Did you think it would kill me? I've taken penises so massive their erections can blot out the sun. I've taken penises so tiny and limp they hardly can be said to have been erect at all. But Bueno... he's just a man. And the world's most endowed man poses no more threat to me than does its most endowed termite.
>>84022713
kekkingtons.
>>84022495
I'm a Moorefag, but there's obviously a genuine connection there. Ror is messed up, but he stills sees Dan as his friend. I do think it's important Dan not be there when he dies, though.
>>84003854
The death scene he shot was fucking terrible anyway so it's not like it was a big loss.
>>84003697
Some girls like futa. Does that make them gay?
I know this is really cheesy, but I wish they showed Dan recover Rorschach's hat in the comic. It was all that was left of him after all, and it would have given closure to their relationship.
I think Moore dropped the ball there, honestly.
>>84013614
Ah, geeze, right in the feels....
>>84013913
Who's the kid in the lower left corner?
Also, Kirk was not Snyder. Kirk was PURE SHATNER AWESOME, baby.
>>84023852
Young Bruce Wayne, in the BvS opening sequence.
