![bkv2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BnNIQQh.jpg "bkv2[1].jpg")
Did you have any idea when you began work that this would be a breakout book for you, amid a career of breakout books?
No way. I’d been away from comics for a while, and was launching a new ongoing series with zero superheroes, graphically naked robots, and two nonwhite leads.
>two nonwhite leads
I don't even think there can be "white" aliens, as far as I know Saga doesn't feature a single fucking human being.
Why are Americans like this? Why is BKV such a fucking SJW-pandering liberal? He is a good writer he doesn't need to say that kind of shit.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/brian-k-vaughan-talks-saga-paper-girls-and-why-well-never-get-that-lying-cat-series/
>>83985762
Saga is hipster trash. I can name at least 5 other books Image publishes that are far and away better.
That's some tasty bait, OP.
I'm sure /co/ can't resist.
>>83985762
having the two main characters not being white was actually the artist's idea.
>>83985803
I found it funny. BKV loves his WTF-splash pages he always delivers something you don't get to see anywhere else...
>He is a good writer
The rest of your post contradicts that
>>83985794
Please do.
>>83985762
>outlines that they are not white
At what point does this become racist? This is getting ridiculous. Who fucking cares as long as it is a good book?
This is like getting a black girlfriend and constantly introducing her as my black girlfriend.
>>83985820
Moron, they are not human they can't "NOT BE WHITE".
Fucking imperialism-taught drones
>>83985868
I can separate art from artists, BKV is a fucking douchebag liberal but he is a good writer. It's sad you can't do it.
>>83985880
The Fade Out
Prophet
Manifest Destiny
East of West
The Sixth Gun
>>83985846
I bet you like fart jokes.
>>83985762
>It's a /co/ gets TRIGGERED episode...
>>83986000
>It's a post memes because otherwise you can't say anything worth a damn anon
>>83985925
>The Sixth Gun
>Image
Anon...
>>83985893
He was listing it as a reason why he didn't expect Saga to be a breakout hit. Believe it or not conventional wisdom is that media with non-white (and non-male) leads sells less.
>>83985895
>Moron, they are not human they can't "NOT BE WHITE".
Alana's skin color is literally brown, a color that is not white.
It doesn't matter their race in the context of the universe, they are still almost entire human in appearance with non-white skin, making them non-white.
>>83986029
Alright well Black Science then. I just meant publisher works.
>>83986033
Shut the fuck up. You are racist for even thinking like that. If something fails its cause it was bad not because the leads weren't white. Holy fuck people like you are why racism still exist.
>>83986033
Alana is an alien from Landfall, she is not "brown" or "nonwhite", those only exist and apply for humans.
You are a fucking racist piece of shit who notices skin color before anything else, even if you think you're doing it for "a good reason".
At the end of the day it's Staples and Vaughan's series. If they want to make the cast the Burger King Kids' Club, that's their prerogative. As long as I keep enjoying the book, I don't give a shit.
The only time the book's liberal slant actively annoyed me was when Hazel straight-up quoted Hillary Clinton and said that war sucks the most for women, which might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
>>83985895
>Moron, they are not human they can't "NOT BE WHITE".
Bet you'd sperg out if someone said Superman was nonwhite though.
>>83986072
>If something fails its cause it was bad not because the leads weren't white
never said it was because of the lead's race, just that the conventional wisdom that BKV was using meant it was unlikely for Saga to be a huge hit.
>>83986102
>she is not "brown" or "nonwhite", those only exist and apply for humans
I forgot that only humans have colors, see pic related
>>83986235
No you said that things with non white males usually fail, implying that is the reason they failed which is completely untrue and a very racist viewpoint.
>>83986128
>The only time the book's liberal slant actively annoyed me was when Hazel straight-up quoted Hillary Clinton and said that war sucks the most for women, which might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Try to see it from Hazel's point of view. She was raised by three very strong female role models (mother, grandma, babysitter) whose life she constantly saw ruined by war, and she herself has spent the whole comic being pursued. Since she's the narrator, that means that she also found out about both Sophies, too.
It makes sense for her to think that women suffer more.
>>83986272
I said that >>83986033 "Believe it or not conventional wisdom is that media with non-white (and non-male) leads sells less". Non-white male leads not selling is a common idea regardless of its truth. I made no comment on whether or not it was true just that BKV clearly thinks it is and that's why he mentioned it.
>>83986412
Well then stop defending and parroting that idea when someone says it.
>>83986128
That's not the point at all. They can color their skins red for all I care. The thing is, Americans have this fucking obsession with race that even people thinking they're doing the right thing focus way too much on the color of skin a person has and that dictates how they're treating them.
As a science fiction writer, BKV shouldn't be concerned to make clear that a non-human alien is not white. This is terrible, race and race politics are a human thing only.
>>83986174
He isn't tho.
>>83986235
>comparing brown people to brown tables
Good job racist.
Obligatory.
>>83986466
I'm not defending the idea, I'm pointing out your misunderstanding.
You said that BKV bringing them up was>>83985893 "like getting a black girlfriend and constantly introducing her as my black girlfriend."
my response was that he wasn't trying to show off how great and progressive it was but to illustrate all the reasons he didn't expect it to be as successful as it is. If you think that BKV holding the belief that minority leads negatively affect the books sales makes him a racist whatever, but that wasn't the point you were making at the start of the thread.
>>83986651
>show off how great and progressive it was but to illustrate all the reasons he didn't expect it to be as successful as it is
Anons, these are one and the same. Take of your liberal goggles.
>>83986610
> characters can't have opinions fitting of their context and personal development
>>83985762
America should have burned to the ground when they gave equal rights to blacks.
All the neo lib bullshit in the world is grown out of their history.
>>83986651
It's not a matter of thinking, it's a fact. If that is the first place his mind goes that is racist. Thinking oh why is this doing bad? It must be because the main character isn't white! Is incredibly racist and a cop out.
Just like constantly bringing up that you are doing something big and groundbreaking by not making them white is racist as well cause it implies there is some kind of spectacle because they aren't white and white people are the default template for which we all should hold ourselves to.
>>83986704
Yeah, Hazel has a history of being wrong, like calling The Will a monster on the page where he kills a child sex slaver and saves a child.
>>83986704
>writers can't support Hitlary in their liberal books
Also, how is it worse for women? Are women losing limbs, experiencing terror first-hand? Getting shot at? Killing innocents and getting scarred for life? DYING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY?
>>83986723
>If that is the first place his mind goes that is racist
Seeing as how it's the last thing he listed I don't think it's the first place his mind went\
>Just like constantly bringing up that you are doing something big and groundbreaking by not making them white
Is this something BKV actually does? I don't read a lot of interviews and what you (or OP) posted doesn't match this.
>>83986687
BKV said he didn't expect his book to perform well for a number of reasons that are conventionally believed to negatively affect sales. That is different from going on about how cool it is that he's writing a book with minorities in it.
>>83986704
> context
Funny that you bring that up because Hazel is literally wrong both in the context of our would and the universe that Saga is set in.
Don't defend this bullshit.
>>83986876
How is she wrong in the context? She was raised for more of her early life by her grandma and her babysitter ghost, who both got fucked over pretty bad. As far as her experiences go, war IS worse for women.
>>83986840
The fact that he brought it up at all shows that he does think that. I can tell by how heavily you are defending that idea that you believe it. Jesus man. Racist people like yourself are why this shit is still around. Everyone is a person, it doesnt fucking matter if they aren't a white male. You don't act like thats an obstacle you have to overcome.
>>83986840 But he does both! He obviously feels his alien characters are minorities and it's so cool to have minority characters or else he wouldn't bring up how they are not white. And sorry, but every single comic writer says the same about their original work "Never expected it to sell!".
>>83986748
In Saga? Yes, yes and yes.
>>83986723
The issue is that marketers in media companies assume that some group of racist potential customers will either tend not to or outright refuse to buy stories with non-white leads in a way that isn't equalled by people who will refuse stories with white leads, so executive decisions that ignore that portion of the potential fanbase are assumed to be higher risk gambles because the rest of the market will have to float it higher to make up for those lost sales. I can't say if any of this is true, but anecdotally, /co/ is full of racists who bitch about diversity quotas and threaten boycotts.
>>83985925
>No Deadly Class
>>83986949
> war is worse for women
But it literally isn't.
>>83986949
> She was raised for more of her early life by her grandma and her babysitter ghost
That explains the context of her opinion. She is still 100% wrong.
>>83986977
Thats too small of a percentage of the market to have any kind of significant impact. If the quality can't overcome that tiny portion of people and get people interested then the fault lies in the quality of the product not the main characters skin color.
People always bring up Hazel's opinions, but I never see you autists sperg about how IV is fine with the idea of letting the poor die or bending over for a father that would rather beat the shit out of him that admit he's wrong.
>>83987062
Now you are being obtuse. Unless you are implying that Hazel as a character is perfect and her opinions on everything are correct?
>>83986962
>>83986967
I'm not even really trying to defend BKV, just the quote you (or OP) posted and point out that >>83985893 was misunderstanding the qoute.
As far as my own beliefs minority lead media does tend to sell less than white lead media. Look at the top selling comics, you have to go down to number 9 to find a minority lead book. Whether this is a result of racism, lack of minority books compared to white books or anything else is up in the air but white dominated media makes more money.
>>83987098
>That explains the context of her opinion. She is still 100% wrong.
She's never presented as being 100% right, though.
>>83987133
It's a lack of quality. Saying anything else is a cop out. See >>83987113. It's a way to shift the blame. Also specifically looking for books with "minorities" in it is racist in itself. Everyone is a person, who fucking cares what race they are.
>>83987123
IV isn't the narrator of the book and from his first appearance was meant to be flawed. Hazel's first appearance is as a baby and throughout the series doesn't do anything to show that she may not be right or that the reader shouldn't be agreeing with her
>>83987113
I think a lot of latent racism is assumed, not in the "I hate black people so I won't buy this" or even "ugh they're forcing diversity on me" ways, but an assumption by white people that if someone black is on the cover it makes it a "black" story that they won't find relatable. This could apply to a much broader swath of the audience than I think you're accounting for.
>>83987204
I think it applies to a much smaller audience than you think it applies to. This isn't the 90s. No one sees a black guy on a cover and goes oh this must be a "black comic". Its not like movies like Barber Shop that are specifically aimed at a black audience. It's a very different medium.
>>83987204
she is however narrating this from a point in the furure, presumably as a grown woman. If she as a grown woman thinks war is worse for women, her development and education sucked dick.
So better stick to BKV pandering to Hillary Clinton on this one buddy.
>>83987123
>>83987152
Any reasonable person understands that actually believing something that is beyond retarded and factually wrong.
> Hey did you know the earth is flat
> Wut?
> Give me a break! I can't be right 100% of the time!
Fuck off with this shit.
>>83987254
was for >>83987197
posting from mobile sucks
>>83987254
>her development and education sucked dick.
Growing up kidnapped, jailed and/or escaping and raised by parents like Alana and Marko that make bad decision after bad decision is exactly what I would describe as sucking dick.
>>83987187
>It's a lack of quality
Quality doesn't sell books. Look at the top ten (or however many you want) http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-05.html. Civil War II and Punisher are 2 and 3, neither are good books and Civil War II is hilariously bad. The Ultimates, a good book, is at 69th and /co/ favorite Omega Men is at 211.
There are a bunch of factors that do heavily affect book sales (promotion, brand recognition, perceived importance to the universe) but quality is not one of them.
>>83987263
> factually wrong
We can't know that. Unless you ask BKV himself, what we have seen so far in the comic isn't enough to say either way.
>>83987290
So Marketing and public opinion affects that. I dont see how race even factors into the conversation. If they market it as a "wow look its a black guy!" Instead of just making a good book with a black guy way less readers are gonna say oh this is a book for black people.
It's a vicious circle that shouldn't be brought up at all.
>>83987237
Like I said in my previous post, I don't know if it holds true in practice, but it's an assumption marketers often make going in. I'll grant that I think it applies more to Hollywood marketing strategies, comics are a less profitable medium with more room for experimentation and a narrower audience they often seek to expand so inclusion of minorities works to their benefit there.
>>83987359
It factors into the conversation because as much as people like to pretend there isn't there is still racism in America. People often put too much weight on race but to disregard it completely is ridiculous. It's not racist to suggest that people are less interested in books with people that don't resemble them or associate heavily black casts as "black media". It's a factor that is perceived as influencing sales, especially for a new property.
>>83985794
This, Saga is trash.
>>83987466
Racism in America only exist because people like you keep bringing it up as an issue to address which pisses off racist cause then they feel like they are being attacked for just being a certain race.
The best thing to do is not talk about it at all and teach kids that everyone is a person, dont even teach them things like this is a black or white or mexican. They are all just people. As long as people still keep trying to put stock in where they are from or "sticking together" racism will always thrive. It's all propoganda by the rich to make you hate each other. A poor white person is no better off than a poor black person. Its the idea that they are that keep black youth from striving to escape poverty cause it's pounded into their head that they have a disadvantage so they start to believe it.
>>83987466
Not only that, 'people are disinterested in minority leads' is exactly what /co/ says when a book like that fails.
The comment is right he had no reason to believe book starring non-white leads would succeed. "They're aliens, hurr dur" is being purposefully dense.
>>83989066
He had no reason to think a book starring non white leads would fail. That is a lazy cop out as shown by Priest BP.
>>83987133
Actually Fast and Furious is one of the highest grossing movie franchises of all time. People will support media that has something other than a white man as the lead but we have to put in a little effort and make the concept interesting.
>>83986737
I'm only up through volume 5 but I'm pretty sure monster still fits him.
Just some monsters are better than others.
