Trying to be hip edition. I have little to contribute and it will be slow because captchas, but I'll do the best I can.
OP here, that was all I had.
This may be a stretch, but
Are the Beyonders representations of bad writers?
>All-powerful beings capable of manipulating reality
>Running weird experiments that destroy everything
>Found outside of the Multiverse
It feels like they could be the writers, toying with the fictional universe and fucking up, but continuing to do so for kicks and giggles.
It's probably too far fetched, but...
>>83986828
I'm not familiar enough with Marvel to comment.
And on DC's side, there really haven't been any new revelations relating to Rebirth to require revised analysis.
I mean, after Titans it's pretty apparent that the Speed Force is involved with wanting the DCU to go back to pre-New 52 elements with it sparking the memories between Wally and Barry, then Wally and the rest of the Titans, but we haven't had any other big reveals that would require a new threaad.
>>83986880
OP here. I just wanted a Hypercrisis thread for kicks and giggles.
You seem to know DC. Why did Doctor Manhattan fuck the Multiverse? What does he want? Is he evil now?
>>83986070
who are the middle circle?
In the letter pages of Showcase #82, the premier of Nightmaster, writer Denny O’Neil writes that Nightmaster may fall into the limbo of obscurity
>>83987134
Nightmaster is later seen in Animal Man #25, trapped in Limbo. It’s seems that O’Neil’s words ended up being prophetic.
>>83987074
>Why did Doctor Manhattan fuck the Multiverse? What does he want? Is he evil now?
Judging from Johns' interviews, he's trying to explain that Manhattan isn't actually evil, but is a metaphor for how the comic industry learned the worst lessons from Watchman's critical acclaim and trying to shoehorn in its style and thematic material in everything afterwards.
I don't know whether the fact that Johns is ALSO shoehorning in Watchmen where it doesn't really belong is appropriate symbolism or a shocking lack of self-awareness.
Either way, we don't know his motivations or means at all yet, just that he's involved and Pandora blames him for everything going to shit.
>>83987074
No, Johns is. Manhattan achieved enlightenment at the end of Watchmen and transcended his comic book existence, forever leaving the second dimension. He was encouraging readers to grow out of comics.
Johns is a literal fucking retard though so I guess Manhattan made the DC universe (shitting on the creative work of everyone who's ever worked on a DC comic) because Johns sits at home eating cereal and watching cartoons and banging action dolls against each other. Rebirth isn't Hypercrisis, it's Corporate Synergy.
>>83987153
He came back in Shadowpact later on, post-Infinite Crisis, but for all intents and purposes, he's right back there now.
>>83987166
>>83987169
So, it's stupid shoehorning, like having Angela on the Marvel Universe?
>>83987166
this guy gets it
>>83987169
this one is a pleb though and probably doesn't belong in this thread
>>83987169
>He was encouraging readers to grow out of comics
This is retarded because 1. then how would they get money 2. comics haven't been specifically for children for quite some time and 3. it implies that the medium of comics is purely for immature individuals, but that's like saying Television is a terrible medium that only exists for sitcoms and reality shows
>>83987215
There are no plebs, only the uninitiated. He doesn't understand yet that everything is a part of the Hypercrisis, whether intended or not.
Johns unfortunately doesn't really do big cosmically-symbolic narratives well, and has a tendency to carve out preexisting concepts and characters to fit those narratives when they don't belong. Morrison at least makes OCs to serve those metaphorical purposes when necessary,
It's nice though that they're holding off on developing that aspect of Rebirth in favor of getting the actual heroes' stories off the ground first. The one thing that Johns ACTUALLY does well is selling the characters involved at that ground level, and as with any narrative, if you sell the characters, their motivations and purpose within the narrative, you sell whatever comes next because you're invested in the characters and what happens to them. Rebirth seems to be going that route, and by most accounts is succeeding on it. Once the characters are more established in their new status quo we can worry about the big, cosmic implications of all this.
>>83987314
I'm still flabbergasted that I never caught the "Multiverse map looks like electron orbital shells" connection. I mean for fuck's sake, I have a degree in biochemistry.
>>83987335
true I shouldn't bully him
Compare and contrast Solaris
>>83987709
To Intelectron
>>83987124
The archetypes of the Seven Soldiers.
>>83987371
Toppest of keks
>>83986880
>there really haven't been any new revelations relating to Rebirth to require revised analysis.
I've had one new theory concerning the current nature of the JSA.
Simply put, the Earth 2 characters aren't the same guys as the ones we know and love.
When Alexander Luthor remade the universe, the end result was 52 separate but identical earths, as shown briefly in 52.
Then after Mr. Mind chewed on their history, they shifted into something closer to the way they are now. The support for this is from Countdown Arena, where I recall several Flashes being pitted against each other, namely Johnny Quick of Earth 3, the Tangent Comics Flash who wasn't a speedster, and Jay Garrick of Earth 2.
And at least parts of Countdown were canonized in the Multiverstiy Guidebook with the destruction of Earth 15 by Superboy Prime.
The key part here is that this was Jay Garrick of Earth 2, who was quite young.
After the events of COIE, the JSA weren't from Earth 2, but New Earth, the future template for the 52.
Maybe I'm talking in circles, but what I'm saying is that there are two Allan Scotts now.
Allan Scott of Earth 2, with the dead boyfriend, and Allan Scott of Earth Prime, father of Jade and Obsidian.Which has the implications of the possibility of two Power Girls.
Is there any issue with my theory?
>>83987272
Yeah, but it was Alan Moore saying that. That's like his whole deal
>>83988258
We actually see the post-Infinite Crisis/52 Earth 2 in an arc of JSA. It's the "Thy Kingdom Come" storyline under Johns, where PG gets sent back to her "original" Earth on the new Earth 2 only to find that there's already a version of the classic pre-Crisis JSA and Infinity Inc there, along with a new (old?) version of herself.
Obviously the events of Flashpoint fucked that up good since the Earth 2 we see post-New 52 is much, MUCH different.
There's two ways that I see this. The first is that the Multiverse has a tendency to replicate aspects of itself when they are removed in some way.
Secondly, in biology this happens sometimes with DNA during the process of replication in cells. Whole genes can accidentally be copied and then might wind up on different parts of the chromosomes (or even on a different chromosome entirely) through other processes. This is a natural part of genetic mutation and shuffling that results in the variation in populations. These copied genes are called "psuedogenes" and usually because they're in the wrong place, they just become "junk DNA" if they are unable to be activated or read by the cell's transcription machinery. But if they are still functional, they usually don't wind up performing the exact same function as the original. Because of their new location, or further mutations that happen to regulatory mechanisms or the protein coding sequence itself, they can sometimes wind up creating entirely new proteins, or allow for the same protein to be expressed at different times in a cell's lifecycle or in different kinds of cells from the original.
The same happens in comics. If you wind up with two copies of the same character or world in the Multiverse, they never stay exactly the same for long. One will either be shut down and never used again, or will mutate to serve a new function within the setting.
I saw this in Morrison Doom Patrol and realized it fit with the new 52 reboot of DC.
You kill the gods in Flashpoint
Slaughter the sacred animals like Detective Comics and Action Comics.
Rewrite the mythologies is obvious
You build roads in holy places like Mr Freeze retcon or separating Lois and Clark or Barry and Iris.
>>83988895
>Slaughter the sacred animals like Detective Comics and Action Comics.
What's "slaughtered" about them though? They just went back to their original numberings, and Action Comics had a few really good New 52 arcs.
>build roads in holy places
I don't like the idea of holding up particular aspects of a comic universe like that as sacred cows that must never be touched. You take that mindset too far and that's what the Gentry support, just rehashing the same storylines in shallower, more toxic forms each time and not allowing anything to progress or change or develop in these settings.And I actually defend Snyder's version of Freeze from that Batman annual issue. Fight me.
It's more a matter of making those changes with good stories in mind, which didn't happen in many regards with the New 52 reboot. In too many cases they just wanted to do things "different" and make it "accessible" while not having a good idea of anything to fill that void with.
>>83988258
explain convergence earth spread.
>>83989223
I've been trying to make heads or tails of Convergence for a goddamn year.
If the New 52 universe is the same as Pre-Flashpoint but with 10 years of moments removed, where the fuck did Clark and Lois come from?
I cannot make an answer with the information I have.
>>83989597
Are Earth's Pre-Flashpoint an Pre-ZeroHour the same one and Earth one as the base?
Infinite crisis says via characters vibration codes are same from previous un-merged Earths.
Is Earth 16 the pre-Zero-Hour Dc or Earth 8 which Kyle Rayner came from?
We see the Earth 4 and Earth X on the spread but no Earth S.
Earth 2's Justice Society is the real ones so says Deimos but aren't the prime earth are too?
Here is the hypercrisis playlist for anyone who is interested. If you think a video should be added, just post a link here and if it isn't stupid I'll add it to the playlist.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq-_SviLVAhy1xISPECRHxTXQmryaw-xH
>>83990019
>>83990019
>>83990035
>>83990019
>>83990035
>>83990048
>>83986070
How do the Endless, the Emotional Spectrum, and the Seven Soldiers relate to each other?
52 post get
>>83990104
It's all speculation, but I think the idea is that each part makes the next. Combined, the archetypes of The Knight and The Reporter represent hope. And combined, the emotions and Hope and Anger make Delirium.
I think it's a little unrefined, but I also wasn't in whatever thread it was made in so I don't know the reasons for the placement.
>>83989597
Brainiac stole Metropolis from a point in the timeline and the universe replicated it in its absence.
>>83990104
They're all groups of sevens important to the structure of the DCU.
>>83988376
I get the impression Moore still sees a lot of merit in the comics medium, he just doesn't find most characters' issues to be relatable to most human beings' existence. And he fucking hates the kind of people that run the comics business for the most part, of course.
Someone who thinks comics are something to be outgrown probably couldn't have produced his run on Supreme, Promethea or League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
Which reminds me, do these threads really need to stay bound to DC stuff? They always return to that and Morrison, and although they cover a lot of interesting ground they almost feel like ads for a book Morrison might write one day.
There's a lot of metafictional stuff in works like LoEG, and big long running takes on the concept of multiverses in the like of the Super Robot wars series and their spin offs (which /m/ may be better qualified to discuss, but still, characters from that have basiically interacted with a lot of anime and videogame universes).
>>83990922
They don't have to be tied to DC stuff, but it's easier to see the connections there. I wish I was more familiar with mecha shows to contribute to talking about the Super Robot Wars multiverse.
Alright, I can't quite yet grasp the Hyper Crisis, but I am really interested in Final Crisis. I hear it is a little harder to access than most of Morrison's work though. Like it is supposed to read like an epic starring a pantheon of gods, not a Justice League team-up? And just in general has stuff some people dismiss as shit, but actually has some abstract substance and meaning behind it?
So tips for reading Final Crisis would be appreciated.
>>83991264
Nothing that complicated, you just will probably need to reread it a couple times.
Also helps to familiarize yourself with Kirby's New Gods work.
>>83991098
I'm not fully versed in it either, but there are some interesting parallels to DC's multiverse and history, like how original characters in ealy crossover games that would makes the likes of Gundam, Ultraman and Kamen Rider work together would return as themselves in the SRW Original Generation games, and how those tie into Namco X Capcom and Project X Zone, whose protagonists reflect some interesting dynamics regarding games and players.
>>83991264
For one, Final Crisis: Superman- Beyond 3D is vital. If you can get a pair of 3D glasses, it'll help even more.
But it is the collimation of a bit of stuff, particularly his JLA run, and it's smack dab in the middle of his Batman run. So read Final Crisis first, then when you get around to Batman, read it again.
And read some of the tie-ins too, like the Green Lantern issue is only important to John's War of Light, but the one about the Tattooed Man is important.
And give the Aftermath books a glance too, D.A.N.C.E is fantastic.
Also hit up COIE if you haven't already. The first before the Final.
![2a6f9937825b26834be3eb98cc72ed15[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gCSrYvd.jpg "2a6f9937825b26834be3eb98cc72ed15[1].jpg")
>>83985996
In the Lantern system, yellow is associated with fear and red with rage, which aren't emotions one would readily associate with the Flash, yet they're classic aspects of the Kryptonian symbol of hope - then again, that's usually depicted contained in blue, which is the color of hope among Lanterns...
Another character heavily associated with the same colors as the Flash is classic Captain Marvel, which is in peculiar circumstances in history and the current scheme of things:
- did very well in its early days and prime, so it connected with its audience
- DC gets litigious due to similarities to Superman and makes it cease publication. The character with the blue of hope in its colors gets to stick around, the one without does not.
- a few years later a comics company called Timely takes on the name Marvel, which under different circumstances clicked with an audience some years before. They would later acquire the rights to use the name Captain Marvel for a character too, and never let go.
- DC would alter acquire the rights to the original Captain Marvel character, but its common aspects with Superman tend to push the character to the sidelines, most of the times replicating in the comics the legal conflicts of years past, or to mock an older age of comics. Unable to promote the character's name due to the Timely/Marvel acquisition, its status has been in a near-limbo since.
- Marvel kills it Captain Marvel and keeps passing the name around very different characters, few to none of which connect with the broader audience on a significant level.
On some level the hopelessness bruoght from both DC and Timely/Marvel undermining the character affected both of them and the character negatively.
Nowadays one of the elements of the character's mythos, the Rock of Eternity, which among other things contains totems for the seven deadly sins, is at the very center of Multiversity's multiverse map, curiously shared with the Orrery of Worlds.
>>83993265
I tend to see two possible, non-mutually-exclusive meaning to the placement of the Rock of Eternity at the center of everything:
- as an embodiment of virtues that enabled the character to earn his powers, the structure associated with him functions as a sort of heart of a multiverse where superheroics are common
- as a character trapped by actions by different entities that hold the right to important elements of its identity, the character is functionally a prisoner of the multiverse, in a way belonging to both an none.
Not to mention that in any case a whole lot of universes may have grown over time around the center of the multiverse, and the character is one of the classic oldies after all.
>>83993265
You are forgetting the one other color associated with Captain Marvel. The color white, the color of life. The life he will once more have once his film comes out.
![yahoo[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/IN7WX6s.jpg "yahoo[1].png")
>>83993507
True, although I recall reading the for one one more Fawcett issues he skipped using the cape in order to try and avoid more Superman plagiarism accusations, so in a way it can be considered a more secondary color.
It's also something that never makes it to modern depictions, like how Mary Marvel has been depicted wearing red, white and even black, not to mention that one cowgirl version of her outfit.
>>83993265
And there's this bit.
>>83993265
>Rock of Eternity is at the very center of Multiversity's multiverse map,
This made me think. All the universes share one rock of eternity, but there are several multiverses.
What if the rock and multiverse works like black holes and galaxies. When several stars circle a black hole it makes a galaxy and different black holes make different galaxies. Maybe different Rocks of Eternity attract universes to make the different multiverses.
>>83994590
In Shazam! The Monster Society of Evil, above the Rock of Eternity is the where the previous universe and the present universe meet.
>>83994837
perhaps it is more accurately where the previous, present, and future multiverses meet rather than universe
>>83994837
>previous universe and the present universe
Can you tell me more about this? I get it with Marvel and Galactus so understand the idea. But in DC with The Hand of Creation and all the travelling to the beginning, reality being a mark on the overvoid, and the 3rd and 4th world with new gods how does a previous universe work?
>>83994981
I don't really know much. The Monster Society of Evil is the only Captain Marvel thing I've ever really read and it's also an elseworld. Although, I guess saying that it's the point that the previous universe and the present universe meets isn't entirely accurate. It's more like it's the point where the previous universe ended and the present universe began.
>>83995130
I've seen it with Relic and the last Green Lanterns arc. Of all the things in DC cosmos a universe that came before just seems to irk me the most, with all the outside time entities and origin of creation stuff and the Superman Beyond story.
>>83987314
Wait.
The Emotional Spectrum holds 7 lights, merging them together gives us the 8th light... life.
However, when alone, the lights then to fight each other, they are unstable, and can lead to death, the absence of light, black.
So, again, 7 is chaotic and can lead to death, while 8 symbolizes life.
>>83996201
I plan on rereading Seven Soldiers specifically looking for groups of seven with eight members.
>>83987314
You're all welcome.
Okay, I've got this hundred-something page wikiguide to Hypercrisis, but I don't remember where I got it, and I don't know how I can distribute it without signing up for some bullshit I'd rather avoid.
How do I give this to someone else?
>>83998506
can you put it on pastebin?
>>83998506
Copy the link and post it here.
>>83998535
>>83998542
It's a PDF file.
>>83998506
Oh hey I also have that pdf. Plus the torrent file for recommended reading.
No idea how to share them.
>>83998612
I don't have the torrent, paste the magnet link.
>>83998506
Sent you a DM
>>83987709
>>83987726
illuminati confirmed
>>83998641
I don't know how to do that.
>>83998860
I don't see them doing the illuminati secret handshake anytime soon...
>>83998951
Open your torrent program, right click the file, choose copy magnet link, should be.
>>83999075
>right click the file,
Right click the file in folder or in the program?
>>83999119
Program.
>>83989022
>I don't like the idea of holding up particular aspects of a comic universe like that as sacred cows that must never be touched. You take that mindset too far and that's what the Gentry support, just rehashing the same storylines in shallower, more toxic forms each time and not allowing anything to progress or change or develop in these settings.And I actually defend Snyder's version of Freeze from that Batman annual issue. Fight me.
There's nothing new in rehashing and changing origins for the sake of rehashing and changing shit. That was the main problem of New 52. Why turn the Creeper into a murderous Japanese Oni? Why turn Freeze into an autistic serial killer with no sympathy? It just changed old shit for the sake of changing. There was no evolution, no progress.
Not really related to comic books, but a weird prophetic moment in popular culture.
In the pilot episode of the original Star Trek, Captain Pike was captured by aliens that caused him to experience totally real illusions (think The Matrix) that were often influenced by his own memories. They have a woman there as well, and are trying to get them to breed so that they can create a human population on the surface of their planet through whom to experience life because they themselves have become physically weak.
Anyway, two of the female officers from the ship are beamed down and likewise captured, because the aliens think perhaps he just doesn't like the woman they first offered him.
The first woman, speaking to his first officer, says, "what? He'll choose you? He may as well marry a computer!"
They ended up redoing basically the entire crew, and the only major character who stayed was Spock. In subsequent episodes, the actress who played the first officer actually was the voice of the computers.
What's more, Captain Pike ended up a quadriplegic, trapped in a metal case with a light on it that he could blink once for yes or twice for no, essentially "married to" a computer that was his only way to interact with the outside world.
>>83994981
In Supergirl in the 90s, The Spectre was able to reach back into pre-Crisis Continuity, and in Convergence Brainiac was able to use the Vanishing point to do the same.
Thus, DC seems to show that even if a universe stops existing, as they did after COIE, they can still be reached by a being that is powerful enough (Spectre) or knows the workaround (Vanishing Point).
>>83999166
Alright. I'll get home in about two and a half hours. Keep the thread alive til then and pray to Superman there are still seeders.
How can I upload the 100 page pdf explanation of hypercrisis?
>>83999752
What about the before aspect? Like these came before the big hand according to how they were explained and all contiuties so far always have thr hand at the beginning so none of those are universes from before just alternate tinelines or realities.
>>84000033
The Hand created the multiverse, but physical universes were destroyed in COIE, but Brainiac and Spectre could still mess with those.
>>83988895
Sounds like a description of what the Gentry do.
>>84000193
I am asking about Relics universe that existed before the hand. How does that work? All the other stuff makes sense except that one thing.
>>83988258
What I don't understand is, how did Vertigo become its own universe after Infinite Crisis/52 when it was always shown to be part of the New Earth's continuity during COIE? And before the Merge of worlds was Vertigo part of Earth 2's history, because there's the connection between Dream and Wesley Dodds, unless the Endless transcend universes.
>>84001128
That's more a case of someone in charge not understanding what Vertigo was in relation to the mainline.
>>83989022
That Mister Freeze works with what is going on in Rebirth. When Dr. M stole time and love he took Nora from Mister Freeze, Freeze's time in Limbo during Animal Man and his cold nature may have left him unaffected. So while Freeze remember's her being his wife everyone else thinks he's crazy.
>>84001303
Shit that's depressing, I still have hopes that rebirth will lead to a crisis level even where everyone removers what they forgot in the ten years stolen but dealing Manhattan right now seems impossible given his power set
>>83999493
Dude...
>>83999752
Wasn't it shown in Zero Hour that after the end of time everything just restarts, like that one Futurama episode?
I know this a bit out of left field, but I just wanna let everyone know I actually fucking love when you're walking down the street and you see someone you kinda know, but not enough to say hi, but they do it and you're really happy because they smell pretty nice, kinda like oranges, but not too much orange that it's gross, yeah, that's nice
>>84001995
Flash in Waid's run did that too.
The more I read this thread and think about Relic and his prior universe the more I hate Venditti for his dumb shit that makes no sense.
>>84002145
Delirium, is that you?
>>83998612
>>83998641
>>83999928
Alright here's the magnet link for the Hypercrisis torrent of DC hypercrisis reading.
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b60cc8533683cf807ee2e1063733e5267a6780b4&dn=HYPERCRISIS&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fcoppersurfer.tk%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fopen.demonii.com%3a1337%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.istole.it%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.publicbt.com%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.token.ro%3a80%2fannounce
>>84002267
And as I feared I think it's dead with no seeders.
>>84002267
>>84002277
Alright. Felt bad about the no seeders so found a way to upload that pdf. Here it is:
http://www76.zippyshare.com/v/PpdaHzBz/file.html
A 200+ page pdf guide to Hypercrisis.
All of you are required to read it.
>>84003207
Thanks for that.
>>83990019
>>83990035
>>83990048
>>83990061
Earth 4's Captain Atom
>>84003274
I expect it read and a report on my desk by Monday.
Anyone know where can I download Jack Kirby New Gods from the beggining?
>>84003654
Kickass probably.
>>84003297
Look behind him.
This fucker is so far gone that he's floating above the panels.
I love this guy, like Manhattan, but he can still smile.
>>84004579Pax Americana is perfection
I was wondering if there's any significe between the infinite loop of Charleton inspiring Watchmen thus, Watchmen inspiring Neo Charleton a.k.a Earth 4. The 8 panel structure, while obviously an off-kilter nod to the reccuring 9 panel structure in Watchmen, is also supposed to represent an infinite, or never ending loop which has now been created by this world by probably Dr Manhatten himself. Maybe i'm gushing to hard at PA
>>84001956At the end, Spock returned him to the planet so he could live in a dreamworld where he could still move and live a full life.
>>83985760
>hypercrisis
>megacrisis
>omegacrisis
>whycrisis
>okcrisis
>feelscrisis
>badcrisis
>mancrisisjust
>>83991098
The better SRW stories do some really cool stuff. In (I think) SRW Alpha 3, the conflict between the childish joy of the retro mecha, the adolescent misery of Eva, and the adult zen of RahXephon was amazing.
>>83996201
Who created the emotional spectrum symbols?
Is there any significance to the symbol of rage having the circle excentered?
Or the love symbol being the only one with filled in lines?
>>84000571
Could be just one of the universes from Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths, since he passed through the Source or whatever before coming back, IIRC, and thus wouldn't necessarily see the Crisis happen and thus would probably assume this was just the "next" universe after his.
>>84005836
well the blue lantern symbol kind of looks like somebody giving a hug so maybe there's something there
>>84006978
One interpretation would be that the small circle represent the self, and the larger one is the rest of the world.
You can then see the symbols as:
-Compassion is the Self orientated toward the outside world.
-Avarice:The Self reach to the outside but brings it back to the Self
-Rage:The Self is not at the center:It follows the idea of alienation when you are a subject of your passions. It's narrow when near the Self but become larger as it draws away.
-As for Fear and Hope they are very similar, but one touch the outside, while the other goes back to the Self
>>84002230
Technically Relic comes from the previous universe which never restarted while post crisis one does.
New52 doesn't have the loop anymore.
>>83999752
that's hyper time in super girl.
while convergence just mentions the dawn of time.
There's no solid old universe to go back to.
>>83985804
I heard about the Constantine bit, but what's the deal with Grant meeting Superman?
>>84007523
During some con Morrison met Superman, talked and asked all kinds of questions.
After that he wrote All-Star Superman
>>84007621
It was some really spot on cosplayer, and I think Quietly was there too.
And they ran into each other again too.
>>84007523
>>84007621
>>84007661
They also met a Bizarro Superman cosplayer who just dragged everyone down at some party, and he didn't leave until they tricked him into it using Bizarro logic.
>>83986828
Jason Quantrell was going to buy the rights to the avengers so that he could control the very idea of superheroes, which according to him (He was a beyonder btw) was the most important there is.
>>84004579
I'm glad to see that just when I thought I had drained the story of all its meaning there is still more to be found.
>>84007698
That is the most reasonable description I could ever imagine. I never realized the correlation between what you emulate and what you are.It seems so obvious. In this context, it's all like some pagan ritual. What I can't tell, is it a set of ideals that become attached to these characters, or is Morrison implying that it's... Shit. This is much bigger than I could have imagined. Even without the hocus pocus it's still this weird social order that's developed, like how one would imagine Greece or Rome on a much smaller scale; where we view it as being degraded into "Myth", but it still held power over the people that lived directly in its influence- where they emulated their qualities and strove towards their ideals.Real talk and totally inconsequential, but just recently I dug up my old comics, hadn't really touched them since reading From Hell, and there was the nostalgia and everything, but there was also this dawning sense that these acted as my role models for a long time, even before the comics with the movies and cartoons. I treated them as a kind of role model that was much larger than life. What's also weird is that sense you get that you're slipping back into a pair of lucky pants when digging through the issues. It's all so very much, and very difficult to articulate, but this hypercrisis seems to be getting at the very root of our belief systems; at the very least, the very root at which they are created, and in which they act upon us.Isn't the comic book the only form of fireside story telling we have on a mass scale? The same general stories retold by someone else, in a line that only ends when the story "dies" because of lack of interest.
How do Moore and Morrison alike reconcile superheroes who suck up to the cops and throw people in prison (sometimes for stealing what they need to survive) with anarchist political beliefs? Same with intellectual property in general?
I absolutely love Morrison's work, but as someone with left-anarchist political views, I'm torn by a character like Batman who, yes, wants to help everyone and refuses to kill even the Joker, but who also reinforces laws that privilege "legitimate" businesses that sell tobacco over some guy selling pot to make ends meet, for example, and who is bourgeoisie as fuck.
At least Green Arrow (sometimes) acknowledges the tension between trying to stick up for the downtrodden and being "the man" oneself. Bruce, for all his self-sacrifice and goodwill, does not.
>>84009832
Do you have specific examples of this? I remember a Nightwing comic where he blows up a distribution warehouse for heroin. That seems like a much more privileged position though. How much petty crime does Batman actually deal with?
>>84010087
Well, I mean, there are all those thugs and purse snatchers he dangles off buildings for information. Not to mention he deals with the mob pretty extensively. I mean, they're almost parodies of the real life mafia in that they don't even seem to want to avoid violence where possible, but the fact remains that the only thing that differentiates them from so-called "legitimate" business is that in the case of the latter, the state uses violence on their behalf so they don't have to do it themselves.
>>84005460
What are you talking about?
>>84010273
The two-part episode "The Menagerie" from Star Trek: The Original Series.
>>84009832
>>84010087
>>84010256
What do you guys think of the character Anarky? With how much he turned up in Beware The Batman and Arkham Origins I'm surprised he didn't become more popular and show up in the New 52.
>>84010519
All I remember about him is the tiny bit I recall from reading about him on Wikipedia a couple years ago.
>>84010519
I felt really uncomfortable in Origins beating up his followers. It doesn't really seem like Batman would do something so direct in a situation like that.
>>84005016
I don't know if it means anything, but the postilion of the ring on his hand suggests that it's his wedding ring.
>>84005836
>>84001128
>>84001248
This pretty much
I misundestood the "three timelines" aspect as three Earths when I was making the design for the chart.
It didn't help that I didn't want to read Countdown to know about the pre-Flashpoint 52 Earths so like a retard I used Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DC_Multiverse_worlds
and got this bit:
>The existence of this reality is based on information from an interview with Keith Champagne. Champagne claimed to have a vague recollection of Dan Didio's list of alternate worlds and said that Earth-13 was "Vertigo, sort of".
>Merged with Earth-0 in the wake of the Flashpoint event.
So yeah, it was a fuck up on my part, I'm currently trying to see if I can fix the mistake.
>>83985760
Conan and Red Sonja were both Marvel characters from the distant past of 616. They were sold to IDW and Dark Horse, both living in identical Hyborian ages separate from one another; while there was still presumably a third HA in the distant marvel past.
Last year, Conan and Sonja met up again. Is that hypercrisis
>>84012036
The way I see it:
>Left = Vertigo
>Middle = Wildstorm
>Right = DC
>>84012062
Aren't Conan and Red Sonja both public domain? How could they be sold?
>>84012062
All I know is that Conan is part of the Lovecraft Mythos.
>>84011607
Oh nice, thanks.
So I wasn't that far off >>84007303
>>84011564
It probably represents his dedication to Building a perfect world, much like Ozymandias. Both have many parallels such as discovering epiphanies while in there youth while in the presence of there idols etc. They both also sacrifice having normal lives by dedicating themselves towards building Utopias, also by using super powered beings to there advantage.
>>84012460
What.
Explain.
>>84010519
I like the concept, but it got a bit too preachy and a bit of an overachiever.
At some point its creator also wrote Lobo, which is the kind of chaotic destructive archetype authority figures use to justify their role, so there's that...
>>84013318
Lovecraft and Howard were pen pals at the least, and they used ideas from each other in their stories.
Like Dagon is mentioned by name in some Conan story, and for what it's worth, the evil god in Conan the Destroyer has a totally lovecraftian name that I can't recall.
>>84012460
Are you sure it's not the other way around, with Conan stories incorporating something older?...
>>84013688
Howard was incorporating ideas from Lovecraft.
Whether you want to believe Lovecraft invented those ideas, or if they were whispered in his ear by dead gods, that's on you.
>>84013674
The problem with this (as far as maintaining the horror of Lovecraft) is that Conan kicks the shit out of the eldritch monstrosities he bumps into.
Quality thread.
>>84006202
I like this idea. Relic came from a pre crisis universe whose special thing was emotion energy is limited and Relic is mistaken.
>>84007412
Nu52 is the same as post Crisis which had loops.
>>84014761
those loops aren't part of it anymore.
>>84014761
I will even try a tie Relic to Convergence. In Convergence all pre CoIE worlds were saved. So they continued on but we got no more stories about them. Without stories the fuel and emotional energy for his universe couldn't keep going and eventually died off.
>>84014984
Explain. Cause pre 52 there are clearly loops and nu52 is technically the same.
>>84015042
there's loops? End of time loops wiith Time-Trapper? You aware the legion got retconned as another earth future while back.
>>84014993
Convergence stated dead universes became the new ones.
And Relics universe had everyone bigger than normal human size and didn't had light bringers but light smiths.
>>84015087
Yeah there are loops of time in the universe. Waids Flash run has Wally run through it several times going so far in the future he loops back around to the present.
>>84015144
Nothing has been shown post 52. It may have the case for pre-flashpoint, the rules have changed.
>>84015112
>Convergence stated dead universes became the new ones
That's a misconception.
>>84015188
>the rules have changed.
And that has been outright stated as wrong by DC.
>>84015320
Thats not what Tom king said.
"Worlds have evolved and are alive again"
