So we're supposed to be conflicted about him? He's the noblest of all the shitty people in that book. Hands down.
>>83963831
Same thing I thought. Probably the only man to stand true for what he believes in.
>>83964190
Thats the point though. His black and white worldview was incompatible with a morally grey world.
>>83964190
Ozymandias did that too. So did Comedian. So many other characters did what that they believed in, whether we consider them good or bad. Hell, that is the same for real people.
>>83964232
It's great, isn't it though? He does everything right, and if he continues, he'll lead the world to Armageddon. The comedian sort of makes that remark when he says you can't change human nature.
>>83964278
You got fooled into thinking that ozymendias seemingly altruistic plan wasn't in it's core motivated by vanity. Just look at his name.
The comedian was just a weak man.
>>83963831
>idealizes capitalism and Muh American Way, but bums out on the streets
>hasn't grown up from masked vigilante days even after meeting Doc. FUCKING Manhattan
>pulls Dreiberg back into vigilantism cause of his conspiracy theory
I don't know, I root for the guy, but there's clearly some level of conflict we're supposed to feel towards him.
>>83964485
That's the strange part though, he grew up in reverse. Started as a pragmatist and wound up seeing the world in black and white.
>>83964485
All this stems from the fact that he stayed true to his principle. What should he have done? Rot in his cave being a spineless beta like Dreiberg?
>>83964485
His conspiracy theory was half right tho. He should get credit for giving a fuck unlike blue dick
It's not *really* about whether he's right or wrong. He's fucked in the head.
Remember Watchmen #6: the psychiatrist who ends up adopting some of Rorschach's worldviews. The takeaway from that chapter, in the larger context of the story, isn't that Rorschach is right, but that a negative worldview easily infects sensitive people (and yet, if they're aware enough, like the psychiatrist eventually was, they won't let it destroy them -- we later see him try to stop a fight because he cares so much about actually helping people and has some faith in the world).
>>83964485
This.
I mean, I'm paraphrasing the quote, but he LITERALLY talks about how a "day's work for a day's pay" is a good thing yet spends his days talking about the end of the world.
>>83964768
True, but then again, Manhattan was starting to grow jaded of life until his confrontation on Mars. The nigga just stopped caring cause he thought that humans were wasting their precious gift, and to him, a gift ruined isn't a gift worth having. Only after learning about the miracle of existence in itself, ie, how literally everything had to be *just right* to give rise to life on earth, his friends, his own self and everything, he snaps out of it.
>>83964671
I admire that about Rorschach, he wasn't gonna compromise even when death was upon him. It just kinda bothers me that Manhattan still killed him, even though he probably saw (or figured out) that Veidt's utopia wasn't gonna last.
>>83963831
He's a fucking crazy person.
>>83963831
No the Comedian is. Eddy Blake is the only person who has a problem with Adrian's plan. Rorschach sells out.Rorschach totally agrees with Adrian and reading the prose part of Fearful Symmetry explains it with the mention of Truman dropping the bomb
>>83965996
>Comedian
>noble
He was a war criminal, a rapist, and when the moment to rise to an actual noble occasion and stop Ozymandias with his government connections (since Ozy never factored Blake finding the island), he crumpled at the absurdity of it
>>83963831
>He's the noblest of all the shitty people in that book. Hands down.
That's not Hollis.
>>83966308
I'm saying "noble" as far as sticking to your guns is concerned. He's the only one who doesn't agree to Adrian's plan.
I'm not saying he's sunshine and rainbows, but that's kind of the point of the story. It begins literally after the climatic duel of ideologies.
Rorschach isn't commited to his ideals as much as he's commited to being commited. He takes (sometimes inconsistent) hardline positions on nearly everything because he thinks that's what "strong" men do and he desperately wants to be a strong man like President Truman, Edward Blake or the father he never knew. It's less that he truly believes that moral relativism is wrong and more that he thinks it's simply weak, and he despises weakness. Compromise is for gays, basically.
I think a fair amount of Rorschach's behavior can be tied to that fixation on a kind of pure, untarnished sense of masculine strength and his almost inevitable falling short of an already kind of murky ideal.
But then again what the fuck do I know. That's just the impression I've gotten on subsequent re-reads.
The strangest thing about Rorschach is how many people miss what drives him over the edge.
The movie included, especially when he explains it on panel in the comic.
>>83964485
>capitalism is still better than the commies at the time
>if Night Own and Spectre hadn't started acting as heroes again, they would have died because of the squid.
>>83967270
I've always seen it as more pathological than that.
Think about how he omits personal pronowns and such: he's in the process of erasing his own inherently impure identity in furtherance of that objective of ideal morality, but he doesn't understand that morality is subjective - as with the Watchmen twist ending, there's no pure right vs. wrong in reality.
So he ends up, though initially motivated by empathy, without any trace of human empathy at all: declaring that he would ignore the cries for help by a humanity he sees as unworthy of life before the main story even starts.
All because he believes there's a perfect "superman's world" morality that should be followed.
That's what's so brilliant about Watchmen: "truth, justice, and the American way" has to be made of compromises in harsh non-comic reality, or else it becomes madness.
>>83967270
Nah, that sounds quite accurate to a certain extent. Also, it makes sense with him agreeing with Adrian's view in the end.
>>83965345
And the mass killer, the freak couple that saves the day as a fetish, and the cold asshole god deprived of humanity aren't?
>>83963831
>obvious joke villain tells him to lock him up in jail
>throws him down an elevator shaft
niqqa's cray
>>83967465
And that is?
>>83967655
Cammon, Ownman cared besides the fetish. He was a bro.
>>83967758
It is that scene I posted, the true innocents he killed the dogs, it is why he keeps repeating and showing the dog with its head split throughout the book.
It is a splinter in his brain that he can't forget.
>>83967697
Classic Rorschach
Nuuuuuuuttyyyyy
>>83967794
>it is why he keeps repeating and showing the dog with its head split throughout the book
literally only like two instances
and they're both when he's talking to the psychiatrist.
>>83967794
Sounds like a splinter in your brain if we're being honest
>>83967991
His focus on dogs is throughout the book beginning with the first lines of the comic.
Also if you read the image I posted he literally is explaining that is what is happening when he kills the dogs.
But if you want to ignore the text in front of you go right ahead.
>>83963831
It's easy to talk about the "sacrificiable minority" when you are not in it. Most people that go "Ozymandias is right" are not in the sacrificiable minority.
>>83968069
Yeah but dogs can't really be seen as a Rorshach motif of he mentions them a grand total of one (1) time(s) in the entire story aside from talking to Malcolm.
And it wasn't the dog killing that caused his insanity, though it could be the absolute turning point.
I think the dogs were just an outlet of all his pent up frustrations since he started being a hero, and he tipped over and raged out against the dogs after imagining what happened to the six year old girl, I think it was implied possible rape and murder, then it was basically shown that the guy chopped her up.
>>83968200
I think if that was true this wouldn't be the image that comes up, and that isn't how the pages in the comic read at all.
>>83965996
Rorschach grows as a person throughout the comic. He used to believe that a Truman-style attack could be justified (and was indeed the right decision), but his views on that (among other things) change by the end of the book.
>>83968291
>but his views on that (among other things) change by the end of the book.
I don't agree with that per se. I think it's telling that the book begins with Rorschach's journal doing the whole "Save us!" and I'll tell them "No."
And then when he should try and save them (by not publically being an ass) he doesn't and takes of his mask and is crying about his own failing to be what he wants to be (uncompromising) when in the end he compromises too.
>>83967794
Well, it's the whole scene of finding the remains of the girl that drives him over the edge, but it culminates with him killing the dogs.
It's hard to take up with someone who is very clearly a psychopath. Walter Kovaks would have become a violent criminal in nearly any case. He was a violent, abused child who grew into a violent vigilante adult. We're not supposed to be conflicted with our feelings towards him, is spelled out that his line of thought is not the right one. Neither can he exist in a peaceful world (Even if it WAS a lie). All of the storied heroes behave villainously.
>>83968381
>
And then when he should try and save them (by not publically being an ass) he doesn't and takes of his mask and is crying about his own failing to be what he wants to be (uncompromising) when in the end he compromises too.
I mean sure but Manhatten would have probably killed him even if Rorscach did make an earnest attempt to get back to the mainland
>>83968239
Why dogs?
>>83969073
I put it at he was forced to kill them and they were not the problem in this case but just used by their owner, innocents in a certain sense.
>>83963831
I don't think we're supposed to hate him for having bad politics or anything stupid like that, more that were supposed to see that he's ultimately a very sad and broken man
>>83967794
>>83968239
I kinda see what you mean, he could face a gruesome and horrible crime head on because he felt like he understood and could punish the human evil behind it and then the dogs confront him with the complete indifference of the universe towards human evil - he goes from being committed to his ideals for reasons of personal morality to being committed to his ideals because they're all he has; it's been a while since I've read it but doesn't he basically say something to this effect in the book?
>>83963831
>He's the noblest of all the shitty people in that book. Hands down.
That would be Hollis Mason, but whatever.
>>83969649
>noble
>killed an innocent man
>>83969686
>that
>canon
how do people miss they're all fucked up
He's a guy with a black and white morality in a morally grey world but that doesn't make him any worse of a person than half the other cast Nightowl is a loser geniuse who can't do shit with his life if it isn't being a fucking vigilante, Spectre is on the same boat while Manhattan is a detached autistic God, and ozzy is a sociepathic asshole who thought that building a peaceful society on a foundation of The lives of millions no one in this story is anything close to a decent person
>>83969892
Honestly Rorshach the only fucking guy worth rooting for
>>83969892
Well, WHAT IS DECENT when Armageddon is about to go down?
Rorschach is /r9k/ taken to its absolute peak. It's a bunch of self contradictions. He gives up on life because he knows he can't succeed. He can't understand nuance and context so he forces everything into black and white. Hell, his mask is a constantly mumbled blob, he has no real identity. It's just a kid in a man's body with no real understanding of the world, just making the events that transpire fit into his narrow world view.
What is he fighting for? The people? Society? Goodness? Justice in a society where he himself doesn't follow the laws?
>>83969960
There is no descent person in the face of the aupocalypse, especially in watchmen
>>83969914
Once you start rooting you have lost the book.
>>83969840
Fight it all you want, it's going to be canon just Rebirth
>>83970005
Well some people figure it out exactly too late
Watchmen is largely a book about how we are all fucked up but loving each other is worth it.
>>83970005
>implying the people rushing to break up the fight at ground zero weren't decent, and their death was Moore's clue to how flawed Ozymandias was to view the conflict in the middle east as the Doomsday tolls
Do you even Watchmen bro?
>Adulthood is realizing...
>>83970007
I don't mean it like that, I meant if your going to choose someone who you hold to be slightly superior morally to everyone it could be Rorshach but in a story like watchmen that isn't saying mich
>>83970046
Watchmen the book is a far more life affirming thing that most give it credit for.
It also doesn't hide it at all.
>>83969975
Yes, he is afflicted with the cognitive dissonance found in those who grew up with constant emotional trauma.
Regardless, that you know his childhood and the cause of his personality should make him more relatable than any other character in the story. You as the reader know why he is that pitiable way.
In a way, he is what the ideals of all the other characters ignore - the righteous scum, the angry contradiction. Everyone else believes in some simple "truth" while Rorschach is an amalgam of writhing, vague complexities never quite coming to rest, hence his mask.
>>83970117
Granted, but to be able to see that you have to start from a place of either great maturity or great cynicism.
>>83970062
Well yeah at the end right before they all died
>>83970062
I'm meaning more to the main cast since none of them are good people they tried to prevent an aupocalypse and failed and your right about ozzy being wrong
>>83970220
It also loves darkly joking at that premise
>>83970117
For as dark as the book is, The book really does seem to have faith in humanity. Like that mini arc with the newsman and the kid. Or what the shrink says before the end of the book.
>>83970286
Kinda a joke on love and war
>>83970353
What did he say?
>>83970286
>I will give you bodies beyond your wildest imaginings
>-Veidt
Well, that pic demonstrates he wasn't wrong.
>>83970366
And going that much through Ground Zero before getting Adrian talking about how he lived every death puts doubt in us that he could have lived that brutality.
The real problem with Watchmen is whenever there is a decent thread about it I want to read it again, so so so many perfect scenes.
This is the best on though.
>>83969975
>He can't understand nuance and context
When you learn a little girl was murdered, chopped up and devoured by dogs because the criminals saw no other out than to get rid of the evidence, witness and victim for their convenience and get on with the nuance and context of their petty lives avoiding justice and law, with intention of far worse violations than Rorschach at that, you start to understand society and its people are collectively a long series of perpetual excuses but ultimately no real reason.
Rorschach is an apt reaction to that underlying absurdity of his time and place much the way Comedian was before. If crime intends to be senseless then he won't waste time with pleasantries. Rorschach isn't fighting for anyone, that was the job of the government, the police, all the failed heroes before him. Rorschach is simply focused on bringing due to everyone who falls under his radar as the sort of sociopathic pissant casually indulging vice like Veidt.
The sort of person who for the sake of their peace of mind deludes themselves into the belief they can genuinely be absolved of anything and everything if no one finds out or if they spit carefully chosen words to fool the already gleefully gullible and willfully ignorant.
Also all of the individuals at the end of the story check out of the reality of their world in their own way, Walter and Jon's were just the most visibly obvious and unapologetic.
>>83970433
I think andrian just wanted to feel the guilty because if he didn't that would basically prove he's just as much of a sociopaths as everyone thought he was by the end
>>83970556
He was, Adrian was the sum of every characters fucked up personality traits by the end.
This is the best thing I have read about him
>in the comic, Adrian’s far madder than Rorschach, more inhuman than Jon, more pathetic than Dan…his life more damagingly composed of lies than Laurie’s. Of course it’s just this that causes the Comedian’s sense of humour to shatter, in the end — a fucking space squid!?
>>83970556
>a sociopath with enough pride to feel actual guilt for the sake of appearances
It's not uncommon, but they usually turn up the crazy to 11 when they recover from such unexpected bouts of humanity.
For fucks sake it wasnt the fact he killed the dogs its what the perp did to the child and that the innocent dogs just ate her remains without thinking, because theyre dogs.
then he put them down.
>>83970084
Rorschach's "morality" is so skewed and pathological that you can't root for it.
>>83963831
>The hypocritical, murderous, self-righteous, bigoted maniac who is perfectly willing to work with people who are exactly the kind of people he claims should be put down is morally right.
>Tortures then kills people because "society would be better without them" but objects to the painless killing of a lot of people at once so as to prevent the total annihilation of everything.
I fail to see what is noble about him.
>>83970375
At the very end before he got squid'd, he was going to try and break up the lesbo fight. When his wife told him to stay out of it, he basically said that they were hurting each other, and he had to try and help.
>It's all we can do, try to help each other. It's all that means anything...
>Gloria... I'm sorry. It's the world...
>I can't run from it.
Unless anon meant something before that, in regards to Rorschach maybe.
>>83970375
That he can't not try to make things better.
>>83970805
>objects to the painless killing
Knowingly injecting a psychic-rape squid directly into a material construct causing a violent explosion and giving every survivor within range horrible visions and nightmares was anything but painless.
Freudian, poetically ironic, Machiavellian, any number of terms. But not painless.
>>83970798
At least his ideals don't involve sitting in your basement and feeling sorry for yourself or living a life full of lies living with a increasingly detached apathetic God or just being a plane asshole who sees everything as a joke but at the very least he wasn't someone who'd consider mass genocide as a means for a short living peace, his ideal are filled with paranoia and violence but at least he only targets rapist, killers and other lowlife and is probably the most effective at actually accomplishing shit which isn't much
>>83963831
He's Mr A but insane
>>83970962
Compared to leaving a man chained to a stove in a burning house with a hacksaw? At least Ozy was trying to solve an issue, not just attack the results of it. Both are wrong, anyways.
>>83971059
So he's Mr. A?
>>83964769
He was right wing because her mother didn't like president Truman. Remember he thought Hiroshima was neccesary?
>>83971037
Rorschach talks about how gays, leftists, hippies, yuppies, and just about everyone who isn't him are all just trash worth less than shit. He was okay with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the only part of Ozy's plan he didn't like was that it hinged on a lie.
>>83971076
That part always reminds me of mad max
>>83971094
That's subjective
>>83971162
He isn't a good guy and shouldn't be taken to be more than anything but a completely deranged killer, but he only human compared and At least he doesn't try to his what he is unlike everyone else
>>83971195
That is because that is exactly where Moore took it from.
>>83971076
>Compared to leaving a man chained to a stove in a burning house with a hacksaw?
He knew what he had to do, he did it to a victim beforehand easy enough, he just didn't want to do it to himself.
Adrian didn't give anyone else nearly half as much a choice. It was the Squid or death.
People on the boat he hired to help setup a ruse?
>Explosive Death.
His own hired gunman to feign an attack?
>Cyanide Death.
Janey, Wally and Moloch?
>Cancer Death for the first two, Cancer and a bullet to the head Death for the last.
His own hired servants in a remote location who were already loyal to him?
>>83971076
>>83971195
It's not like the guy didn't deserve it
>>83963831
>noblest
That was Dan, who was a dreamy idealist who did small time things for the excitement. And knew when he was out of his reach.
Laurie never wanted to do it.
Doc M fell into it without any real interest.
Comedian was a psychopath who delighted in other people's suffering.
Ozy thought himself above other people.
Rorschach was schizoid, stabilizing as a mildly functional human being by creating an inhuman set of beliefs regarding other people.
>>83963831
They were all really flawed, Rorschach was psychotic but Ozy was vain, Manhattan selfish, there's not a good guy or a bad guy in Watchmen, people do the right things for the wrong reasons and the wrong thing for the right reasons, so of, but it is not clear what is right and what is wrong.
>>83971325
Ozy was above other people though. Except for Jon he was the closest thing to superhuman the world had.
>>83971373
He was basically watchmen only true super villain his plan is the equivalent to something you'd find in a silver age story just applied in a real morally grey setting with serious consequences for those involved
>>83971224
I see what you did there.
>>83970805
>Implying that the squid saved anyone
>Implying that there would be a Niclear war after Manhattan left.
MAD worked in our world. With Manhattan out of the picture, it would work in theirs.
>>83969205
But all animals are technically innocent, they lack the cognitive ability to make moral decisions. I doubt Rorschach has that much guilt in killing the dogs, I think him seeing the dog with the head split open in the ink blot is just an image he associates with the day he went over the edge.
>>83970805
The difference is Rorschach kills/tortures people he knows are terrible people like the child rapist/killer. Of course he's going to object to killing a bunch of innocents, even if it is "painless" and for the supposed greater good.
>>83963831
>5'6"
Hes pathetic, i could take him easily.
>>83973488
Maybe if you got the drop on him.
>>83971311
What a fucking hack
from my reading, adrian is not a sociopath
i think his 'love' for people is genuine, as is his clear desire to be loved in return, which imo is the thing that makes rorshach think ozy is gay -and which should be the first clue that rorshach is not entirely altogether. other than the pyramid iconography and the purple cloth, there's NO other plausible reason why rorshach would think ozymandias is gay except that he's 'soft' like the women he grew up with and not 'hard' like his masculine role models.
rorshach is actually a fitting example of actual toxic masculinity.
>>83964278
>Comedian
I don't think you can stand true for a lack of belief.
>>83974542
my interpretation of adrian and of the watchmen book is that adrian's grand error is the same 'error' the us and ussr were making on their march to war.
in the real world, there were numerous occasions where the cold war could have fallen into a hot one, with both false positives and real commands. in every occasion, the pilots on both sides were unwilling to drop the bomb ... despite numerous signs that the time had come to begin war, the soliders on both sides chose to chance it and fly home instead of dropping a warhead and beginning the final war (which makes the idea of ai drones even more terrifying).
moore didn't know this but his book is meant to be hopeful (imo) and a polemic against militarism and mutually assured destruction.
>>83965329
Veidt told Manhattan to do it. The Doc was just obliging him.
>>83974573 cont.
>>83971313
>Adrian didn't give anyone else nearly half as much a choice. It was the Squid or death.
therein is ozymandias' flaw. he 'loves' humanity but he doesn't respect humanity.
adrian reflects the absolute pinnacle of man in 198X. he is the master of all emerging fields, AND he genuinely loves and wishes to be loved by people (by my reading). his huge, massive flaw, forseen by moore, foretold with the murder of his own scientists, and all but proven by modern science is that for ozy's plan to succeed he has to absolutely neuter humanity. he would put an end to advancement in all of the fields where he himself had gained mastery, particularly genetics and psychic research (which both the us and ussr actually pursued for real during the cold war). he has to kill every new emerging psychic and scientist ... and rorshach's journal is the match that lights the suspicion that drives psychics and scientists underground until they can discover the truth, by which time humanity will have even more lethal weapons than nukes, and with facism will be poised for a clever sociopath to take advantage of such weapons.
>>83974542
>i think his 'love' for people is genuine
He saw people as tools. He literally spent every moment, every resource, every acquaintance and friendship for one moment.
A moment, not to "save humanity", but to prove one man wrong that best him years ago. The only opinion he cares about in the aftermath is the American God who stands before him.
OK.
>>83964769
>we later see him try to stop a fight because he cares so much about actually helping people and has some faith in the world
And his wife wouldn't let him do the right thing. That scene really made me feel dispair.
>>83974602
>>
>A moment, not to "save humanity", but to prove one man wrong that best him years ago. The only opinion he cares about in the aftermath is the American God who stands before him.
it's been a while since i read the actual book. could you tell me more?
>>83974646
Comedian told him he was full of shit for putting on a fancy dress and thinking beating up mooks in alleyways was making a difference. So then he concocts a keikaku to make that difference. And when Comedian found out about the plan Adrian murdered him personally. He was really salty. He threw away literally everybody involved in the plan so his genuine compassion is total hogwash.
And the American God that anon refers to is Manhattan. He's the only person he asks for an opinion on his actions. And it's funny the only person whose opinion he 'd ask for is the only person who could beat his Smartest Man in the World title. Adrian's came off rather spiteful and full of himself.
>>83974646
He's clearly disingenuous when revealing his plan to Nite Owl and Rorschach, especially when he mentions about how he wasn't hurt during the Crimebusters meeting and how taking out Blake was just a necessity (Gibbons art betrays Veidt's words, showing a whimpering look on Ozy's face in the former and sadistic glee in the latter).
Likewise, his attitudes throughout the book show him to see everyone as pawns in his greater scheme, with him only really regarding Jon as a peer. He's mindful of not hurting Jon too much, and Jon is the only person he shows any doubt to.
>>83974869
He always read to me like Lex Luthor with hair.
>>83974646
>Comedian told him he was full of shit for putting on a fancy dress and thinking beating up mooks in alleyways was making a difference.
i saw that as further evidence that the comedian is just a wild dog who wears heroic colors because it is convenient and fun... and just like a wild dog of war, he is killed the moment his services are no longer required.
>Adrian murdered him personally.
i saw that as ozy being confident that only he could take the comedian out. he had to do so in a manner that is inconsistent with political assassination, and only ozy could get that done.
>>83974925
>He's clearly disingenuous when revealing his plan to Nite Owl and Rorschach, especially when he mentions about how he wasn't hurt during the Crimebusters meeting and how taking out Blake was just a necessity (Gibbons
art betrays Veidt's words, showing a whimpering look on Ozy's face in the former and sadistic glee in the latter).
>Likewise, his attitudes throughout the book show him to see everyone as pawns in his greater scheme, with him only really regarding Jon as a peer. He's mindful of not hurting Jon too much, and Jon is the only person he shows any doubt to.
damn. i really need to reread this. i remember the wimpering face but i can only vaguely picture the glee.
i took adrians murder of the comedian to be kind of tropey of comic books. it really didn't occur to me that it could be reflective of adrians sociopathy.
thanks for the replies, anons!
>>83975134
I mean hell, Adrian admits that because of Eddie's philosophy being broken, he'd probably never tell (except for the drunken confession to Moloch). And he was shown later in the book to impersonable get rid of the players in his scheme without leaving too much of a trail. Yet he takes the biggest risk to eliminate Comedian. It says a lot.
There's no heros or villains I'm the watchman. You're supposed to be very conflicted with all the characters.
>>83975199
>he takes the biggest risk to eliminate Comedian.
you're absolutely right. that was always something that stuck out to me but somehow i just never made the connection.
this is going off topic but i'm just now reminded of some real world _possible_ sociopaths who i really somehow want to believe are good people but who almost certainly are sociopathic. ...am i broken, anons?
i have a feeling that if i were in the watchmen world, and if i were a hero, i would probably be one of the numbskulls adrian ends up killing.
it's weird. i feel like i'm really good at reading people's emotional states but i'm not so good -or at least i doubt myself- when reading their intentions.
>>83975516
i just don't know how i keep missing things that are tremendously obvious in hindsight.
the best that i can do is see profit motive. i think i'm really, really bad at reading character (and that fucking frightens me).
>>83975617
*profit motive and habitual expression
>>83975516
>i really somehow want to believe are good people but who almost certainly are sociopathic. ...am i broken, anons?
On average the first exposure to humans is nurturing parents, barring having none or being raised in an abusive home hence 'on average'. Most people therefore initially believe other people are or can be good until given reason to think otherwise. Some people make and keep friends and family that help keep them positive if not optimistic or at least focus on the good in the world.
Others for one reason or the other become overwhelmed in the search for the truth and without a strong support or sense of individuality come to reflect a persona or caricature of what they find. Or think they found.
There's a lot of back and forth about what makes people as much as what breaks them, the whole nature vs nurture bit. It's a longstanding debate, which makes a simple answer difficult but I'll say as much, society stands on the pillars of trust and hope. If we didn't believe in each other to some degree we wouldn't be here. We'd still be throwing rocks at each other.
Is it wrong to empathize, sympathize and place your best expectations for others in their uncertain hands? It's uncertain.
Is it right to see only the worst, hate, fear and generally hold paranoid blind contempt for everything alive? Well, it's certainly wise to be skeptical since we do not know anything for sure and technically the universe is trying to kill us, but it does no good to assume no good exists in the universe. Especially since ironically enough that is the thinking of a sociopath. And whatever benefits it may appear to have at a glance, it ultimately benefits them little because they'll tell you themselves even if they seem to confidently get ahead in life they feel hollow and often die filled with doubt and confusion like everyone else.
tl;dr There's no harm in being caring, just be careful.
>>83976143
thank you anon. that's a good thought to have before bed.
>>83963831
Yes, but in the scenario Moore created he arguably did the morally wrong thing. His actions could have caused the death of millions.
