Why is Superman so hard to get right?
What should he be as a character in order not just to be an overpowered boyschout?
>>83929394
Popeye with a cape
He should be human and vulnerable. So basically not Superman.
He should help people.
I find that THAT is the central aspect to him that goes missing so often.
He does superpowered feats, sure, but at this point, his stories are rarely grounded in any sense of reality. The only side characters in Superman stories are either metahumans or people who've been around Superman for so long that nothing he does seems spectacular.
Personally, I've always felt he should be similar to Doctor Who: an adventurer whose constant travels put him in connection with new companions, new supporting characters, all of whom see and spread the "concept" of him. In the case of The Doctor, he's nearly a mythological character
Another touchpoint to consider would be Sandman. That entire series was about grounding the truly fantastic elements of dreams and pantheons with concerns of regular people (or concerns regular people might have, with regards to Endless family drama or people/concepts trying to barter with Dream).
With Superman and the superhero genre, it really boils down to putting temporary supporting civilians in the spotlight and allowing their regularness to contrast with Superman's capabilities.
there is nothing wrong with having an overpowered boyscout, if you can't make a good story without having the main character beaten to a bloody pulp you are a bad writer, and if that is all you enjoy you are a bad reader like this anon.
>>83929646
>>83929925
I too enjoy reading about completely unrelateable inhuman robots that have no threats and thus zero stakes in their stories.
>>83929394
>Why is Superman so hard to get right?
Because every time someone tries something other than Perfectman, people whine.
>>83929394
Because he's trash.
>>83930019
shut up, lex
>>83930089
marry me
Make his enemies stronger than him.
>>83929394
>What should he be as a character in order not just to be an overpowered boyschout?
Overpowered boyscout is exactly what Superman SHOULD be.
The appeal of Superman, far as I can tell, is the idea that there is a hero who will never let you down, never fail, never falter, never take the easy way, never do anything dishonorable or underhanded, to the point that him showing up at all is a guarantee that everything's going to be fine. It's not going to appeal to everybody, but that's his "point" as a character.
>>83929394
He's a farmboy from Kansas that saves the day.
That's all there is to it. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
>>83930115
Lex did nothing wrong. Seriously though, fuck superman
>>83930115
Oh no something bad is going to happen! Will perfect man be able to save us!? Oh look, perfect man saved us. Because he's perfect.
Superman is the closest comics come to that cringeworthy Udo Tensei Madara copypasta shit. Can survive anything, do anything, rewind time, punch reality to death. Why even bother reading his stories?
>>83930152
There's no way a character survives and is this popular for that many years by just being a dude from Kansas
>>83929806
>>83930143
>"He helps people...and he flies...and he helps people..."
>>83930143
That appeal only works if there's struggle and risk. The unwavering good guy who doesn't give in is only inspiring if he could die but fights anyway, has reason to fall to temptation but resists anyway etc.
When you're an immortal god there's no believable risk or temptation to make his goodness mean anything.
>people hating on Superman for being a nice guy
JUST
>>83930318
It's /tv/ tourists.
>>83930318
Why watch to see if the paint dries when I know it's going to?
>>83929394
>What should he be as a character in order not just to be an overpowered boyschout?
But thats who he is.
The problem with Superman is that everyone knows he's Superman.
Everyone knows how powerful Superman really is. The SUPER shit he can do.
And "With great power comes great responsibility"
So the natural assumption is that an alien who can travel at ungodly speed, can lift anything, can beat up everyone, knows when bad shit is happening absolutly anywhere, should wrap up all the world's problems in about a week.
But he doesn't.
So he's just a dick.
>>83929394
>Why is Superman so hard to get right?
He's not. You see what Byrne did? Just go off of that and you're golden. It's these fucker trying to shove this infallible, alien Jesus, "always does right" no matter what bullshit that are ruining him.
>>83930318
>>83930373
Alright, are there any else worlds where Superman isn't just a nice guy, but at the same time isn't full edgelord?
>>83930376
>The problem with Superman is that everyone knows he's Superman.
THIS
One of the reasons why Golden-Age Superman works is that nobody knows who the flying fuck Superman is. He's basically just some new guy constantly foiling evildoers' plots.
I think it's kind of why I liked "Superman: Lois and Clark" so much. Having PF Superman be a shrouded figure was such a breath of fresh air -- not just as contrast to the outed New52 Clark, but with the status quo for decades, where everyone seems to know exactly what Superman is capable of.
>>83930373
>Why watch to see if the paint dries when I know it's going to?
What did he mean by this?
>>83930128
Then they could just vibrate the universe and kill everyone before he can even do anything.
>>83930398
Only good superman book I've read is All-Star. Red son is good but that may be a little edge lord
>Superman is perfect
>>83930655
>Superman never fails
I actually like MoS/BvS Superman. He's a good guy who tries to do the right thing, but he's not above getting frustrated or sad when things don't always pan out. Super or not, he's just a man.
>>83930744
>Superman doesn't understand
>>83929394
MoS got it pretty right.
Make him closer to Pre crisis Superman. DC were trying to do it, but Johns had to leave in the middle of his run. Bring back his life as Superboy, superman robots and legion. Make his stories about crazy Sci fi adventures with his friends, rather than fist fights with doomsday and Jesus imagery.
>>83929394
>Why is Superman so hard to get right?
Because most writers are hacks.
>>83930655
>>83930744
>>83931093
thank you, anon
>>83929394
>Why is Superman so hard to get right?
There seems to be this impetus in recent times to make Superman mean everything to everyone, to make him this perfect ideal of heroism.
This does a disservice to the character by dehumanizing him and thus we get all these complaints that he's unrelatable. He needs to be written as a character, not as an ideal.
Some stories do this, others don't. Quality varies and as others have said, the idea doesn't appeal to everyone, the same way any other hero has fans and people that don't like them.
Nothing is ever going to be popular with everyone, especially in this day and age when everyone finds something to be offended by, but trying to force a character to appeal to everyone is not a good solution.
Superman should just be written as a man with the burden of power and how he chooses to use that power. He can perform amazing feats and go on spectacular adventures, and he can help ordinary people with their ordinary problems, because he's just a guy and he wants to help.
It's not complicated, but some people see simplicity as a lack of depth and therefore a lack of interest.
>>83929394
Well, at least Snyder did him justice.
The problem is that he's the unlimited man, and the writers are living in the limited world
Jerry Siegel got it right both times he went to work on Superman. He needs to be Super, each story week after week, month after month can't be regular, can't be something that's been done by every other knockoff. He's the Man of Tomorrow.
The platitudes, the morals, the sentimentality, those are nice, but you read stuff like Action Comics 1 or Return to Krypton or Death of Superman, those are stories that aren't anything like what else was out there.
People saying he's too powerful, too invulnerable, he's not powerful enough. For him to be Superman he needs to do impossible feats that excite the reader, like a circus strongman would excite the crowds with feats of strength that no doubt inspired Jerry.
That's why the best modern Superman stuff, they all follow that kind of mold, and the most agonizing to read Superman stuff lingers too much on him being an allegory.
>>83929394
He's too nice for the post modern world to accept A genuinely nice person with no ulterior motives? That's just not "realistic".
He should be like All-Might from that hero anime.
>>83929394
He's the best of us, he's every fireman who runs into a burning building, every medic who runs to a fallen comrade under fire. He's the epitome of what it is to be a hero.
Superman, Clark Kent, is more human than the human beings around him. He is the paragon of goodness.
>>83932308
I want to clarify: he's not Christ. Christ is the redeemer, the teacher. He taught us what is right and what is wrong.
Clark shouldn't moralize, he shouldn't scold us for not living up to his standards. He wouldn't flip over the tables outside of the temple. If we must use biblical allegories, he's not Jesus -he's the Good Samaritan.
>>83929394
A weirdo who spends most of his time pulling pranks on people to teach them a lesson
Anything else is simply not true Superman
>>83932308
>>83932482
Why should he not be portrayed as a God like figure? He should be brooding and conflicted by his powers, say what you will about Zack Snyder but at least he made Superman fresh again.
>>83929394
>Hard to get right
This is what people actually believe
>>83931003
I agree. On reflection pobably the biggest flaw of BvS to me was there wasn't of Superman, and in particular that characterization of him. Enough of Bruce's fractured psyche. I understood where it was going with being a look at how the world sees Superman, where we got Bruce and Lex's fractured take on Superman and what he represents to them, but we got not enough of how Clark sees himself; I feel like we got a trial where the defence didn't get a fair chance for rebuttal.
The "Superman was never real. He was just the dream of a farmer from Kansas," parts were great, I think they should've been better developed.
This is just from my memory of the film though, I may see it again.
>>83933080
>The "Superman was never real. He was just the dream of a farmer from Kansas," parts were great, I think they should've been better developed.
Problem with Superman in that film is that we wanted a big hero cake but all he got was some of Granny's Peach Tea
>>83932020
That's exactly what I don't want, you're not impressing anyone anymore by going
>Superman lifts infinity+1 pounds.
>>83931900
>>83931900
>This does a disservice to the character by dehumanizing him and thus we get all these complaints that he's unrelatable. He needs to be written as a character, not as an ideal.
>Superman should just be written as a man with the burden of power and how he chooses to use that power. He can perform amazing feats and go on spectacular adventures, and he can help ordinary people with their ordinary problems, because he's just a guy and he wants to help.
And here I thought that was the ideal.
>>83932656
>Why should he not be portrayed as a God like figure?
I think, and what I think what the original poster meant was that, yes he can be "god-like" in the sense of being extremely powerful, but *not* in the sense of being a perfect and all-knowing redeemer-judge of humanity. Which is in agreement with what you say about being brooding and self-conflicted.
He's hard to get right because everyone thinks Superheroes should be about fighting and life or death situations. These things are part of the mythology, but Superman stories should be about incredible moral conundrums that seem impossible to find the "correct" solution too, yet he does it by using his ablities.
There's also the problem of making him relatable. Lots of writers try to do that by making him brooding and full of self-doubt, but you just need to do the Grant Morrison approach: think about an ordinary situation you've been in like walking your dog and make Superman do the same but make it grandiose: Superman walks Krypto and plays fetch with him by throwing a tree around Saturn.
>>83932656
Because it's boring? Snyder left us two paths: God and King, or the eventual repudiation of it all. In one case he becomes the villain, and in the other he either rejects it outright (which is the point of Zod) or he gives in and later rejects it which would permanently stain him and should only be done outside of the main continuity.
It's okay if he has feelings; his biggest motivator is his sense of empathy, but he shouldn't give into his demons. He's supposed to be one of us, but he's also supposed to be better than us.
>>83930180
>I've never read a Superman comic
>>83933201
And people are even less impressed by corn feed space Jesus who cries a lot so we're in the same boat.
>>83933764
Yeah i'm not crazy about that either.
>>83932656
A fresh turd is still a turd. And in fact, a stale turd stinks less.
We all know that this is how you do Superman, but for some reason DC/writers don't seem to want or be able to do this characterization of him.
There is no "Superman." The character is Clark Kent, a Kansas farm boy who just wants to do the right thing and with powers beyond his scope. Superman is just a disguise he puts on
When people get the character wrong, it's because they think about it backward
Just like Batman is the character, and Bruce Wayne is just a mask Batman wears. Clark is the opposite
>>83934804
To be fair the whole which is the true identity Batman or Bruce Wayne question, while interesting, has no solid answer. Throughout, and likely caused by, the many different runs the answer changes. Personally I like the idea Batman is now the main identity, but a definitive answer would not be possible.Ironically I just got done watching a video that mentions this very subject.
>>83929394
bump
why is it that a good upbringing no longer counts for a decent motivation?
the way Pa and Ma raised him there's nothing else he could have been but a super hero
>>83933203
>And here I thought that was the ideal.
He IS the ideal though. That's what the ideal is. Not unfathomable strength, not heat vision.
The ideal is a man who does whatever he can in his power to help. He's a result of his parents upbringing. Do the right thing, help where you can, and never give up because it's hard.
This are IDEALS that apply to everyone. The super powers and costumes are just dressing. If you saw an old women struggling with a bag of groceries you might stop and help her carry it not for any reason than it's just the right thing to do. you wouldn't hesitate.
Superman is a man with all this power but the only thing it changes is the scale and scope of how he can help.
Fire fighters rush into burning buildings every day to save people. Superman is simply that courage and ideal taking to a higher level.
>>83935083
Sometimes Bruce uses his company to further Gotham, but I don't think I've ever read any Batman comic that developed Bruce as a character other than the very early stuff when he puffs on a pipe and laughs about the previous night's jackanapery or whatever
Superman is the most basic of escapist fantasies. He's a man who can soar through the skies with a grin on his face
Superman also has a ton of different identities, but the most abundant element of his personality is that he is a hero. A Super-Hero
Unlike what many think, though, he can be human. His greatest burden is a rather simple one, and that is he fears letting down the people he strives so hard to protect. It isn't whether or not Superman will save the airplane from crashing into downtown metropolis, its about how many other lives he can't save because he's already occupied with landing that airplane
Also whoever says Superman is too strong has no imagination. It's pretty easy to write conflict without resorting to kryptonite once you start working a little bit outside the box
>>83930180
That's basically Batman now.
I always wonder why people bitch when it comes to Superman? Silver Surfer is more powerful than him. So there is that OP problem out the window and there are tons of characters that are just as powerful or more powerful than him. I also wonder why a lot of people gave New 52 Superman so much shit. The guy was a good guy that you just shouldn't piss off.
>>83929394
He's a cornfed middle-American, line-backer and I'm sick of seeing him portrayed as a quarterback. type. Tim Sale drew him the best; an awkward looking lug, who was obviously out of place but at the same time calm and thoughtful. He's a simple momma and poppa's boy who just wants to do the right thing. Whether that's save the planet from annihilation or helping Mr. Ross lift the tractor when it needs fixing.
What is so fucking difficult about that? I don't know. Maybe they need to stop flying over the fly-over states.
>>83932656
Being conflicted about your powers is the least godlike thing.
>>83929394
>Why is Superman so hard to get right?
Sadly, because he's often written by the wrong people, who have the hardest time imagining someone with all the power he could hold, and not be smug and flagrant with it. More and more we've conditioned ourselves through endless stories in reality of wealthy CEO's who are raging jackasses behind the scenes, celebrity's who seemed to be such nice people having a meltdown and tearing into others, pettiness and little empathy to be found in pretty much every facet of reality. Power=abuse, is what we've come to accept, and those at the top especially simply cannot see a Superman who isn't a smug and smarmy jerk, because who's going to stop him? Why wouldn't he be that person, is what they ask.
But the truth is, that's what a Superman story should be. Why isn't he? He has more power than anyone, no human could defeat him if he really tried, but all he does is save lives and do as much good as he can. He's not a snide jerk who bites back when pushed while knowing nobody could touch him. He's Clark Kent, the mild mannered fellow who just wants to see the world be a better place.
The truth is, it's becoming harder and harder to put ourselves in his shoes, to imagine a power fantasy where we're Superman, and we don't fuck with the people who wronged us with our Superpowers in ways they can't fight back against, we don't tell whoever disagrees with us to go fuck themselves and they just have to take it, we don't realize we can break the world, and all we want to do is go hold up other people so they can live better.
It's so hard to write for Superman, especially in the movies, because it's getting harder to look to the sky, and see our own face smiling down on us and saying "With this power, or without this power, you can be a better person."
>>83940702
love this meme
this is superman
>>83939689
Give me examples of how to beat him without Kryptonite. Attacking his personal life?
/co/ can sometimes be really great, and this is one of those times.
>>83932072
This is why most dipshits hate him. They can't stand a good person who helps people because it's the right thing to do. All they want is an edgelord who kills people and then say a "HILARIOUS" pun. They simply can't stand a genuinely good person.
Truly these are the end times.
>>83931093
This is absolutely beautiful. Where is this page from?
>>83941895
>Magic
Magic is something that fits in wonderfully to the often connected ideal of the godlike pantheon he's attached to, while still humanizing him by connecting him to the roots of this larger than life being who still lives in a world where it's possible to come against something he doesn't understand and struggles to fight.
>Biological
How do you fight the man who can lift a planet? Make him face something too small to hit. He's forced to think small, much smaller than he normally does, in order to deduce the best way to circumvent the thing that no amount of punching can crush, and no flight can escape.
>Other being as strong as him
This is the most often used, and for good reason. Even if you are the biggest fish in the pond, the ocean holds things much bigger and scarier out there. It also connects thematically to the idea that sometimes, others will rely on your power, but you might not be able to live up to them. He can be defeated, lose, and have to deal with the idea he can't win every battle, not alone.
>The elements
Something out in space beyond the vastness of what we deal with on earth. Do I have to give examples? Space is fucking scary, and makes even the biggest man feel tiny.
Need more?
>>83941895
The obvious: High Intense Gravity, Red Sun rays, Density shifters, Condensed Electricity/Light, as you already mentioned his personal life, pretty much any magic, atomic bombs, cosmic energy, other Kryptonians/similarly powered races like Daxamites, Telepaths and Mind-Readers, abstract concepts that have taken on physical forms (that one's for you, Grant), pretty much any reality warper, any beings that exist in a higher dimension or plane of existence, Giant Robots, Clever Mobsters, Time and Space, etc.
The less obvious: Someone who can blind Superman, someone who can control Superman's emotions, someone who can make Superman feel the sensation of pain without actually feeling it, someone who can separate Superman's mind with his physical body, someone who can make Superman radioactive (although not harmful to Superman himself, he would poison anyone else he was near), someone who can shrink Superman to the size of a quarter, someone who can bring Superman's suit to life and force it to choke Superman
The even less obvious: Superman isn't real. You can create literally anything as a threat because in the end of the day he's forced to do whatever the writer wants him to.
>>83933406
Yes, thank you.
>>83930228
Dr who was a good analogy. That show worked
>>83941895
I always think of it like this: Put Superman against any other hero and you've got a good threat. While this obviously doesn't fit in with most characters, it does make you think about how Superman isn't exactly... indestructible
Thor, Silver Surfer, Spawn, Wolverine, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Ironman, Flash, Namor, Captain America, the Fantastic Four, Batman, the New Gods, Galactus, The Spectre, Doctor Fate, could all make great Superman villains if they were evil. Heck, almost all of them already ARE Superman villains
>>83942834
>>83942942
Thanks guys, just wanted more depth into how and why.
>>83943200
No problem. I like to think of this type of stuff on my free time. Good way to exercise your creativity
>>83930398
American Alien.
>>83929394
An idealist - aka overwhelmingly naive. He can still be smart and all that, but I think he works best when he is naive, largely because his invulnerability affords him as much. He's never experienced losing anything dear to him or had much bad happen to him (too young to remember Krypton). His naivete fuels his almost childlike drive to "do good" based on the ideals of "Truth, Justice, and the American Way". This is Superman to me. Regardless, he'd still be terrible.
These same threads always help prove that Superman fans are a religious loyalist cult based around a fictional franchise character.
You people are either really boring or really nuts.
>>83943463
This. Supesfags always go on about how people who don't like this comic book character are nihilistic, somber, sullen people, and how we need to aspire to be like this made up superhero. It's fucking frightening!
>>83931900
There's two ways to do it, but both involve getting rid of le ebin jesus imagery and "what does it TRULY MEAN to be Superman" shit that's been done a million times before.
Go back to basics, he's a regular dude from Kansas who's got a strong set of morals who tries to help the best he can inbetween crazy space shit.
There are two different serious approaches to the character, setting aside Elseworlds and out of continuity issues.
The first one is the everyman, the farmboy from Kansas trying to do some good. This approach can lead to infitiny growth, starting from Superboy, to learning from his alien heritage and going to space, going to the future with the legion, or having a more grounded start with feats in Kansas, juxtaposing the farm with the city of metropolis, his beginning career as a journalist, his fight for good while he struggles to mantain his personal life, and a gradual introduction to the cast. After that point, you get alien threats and the Legion taking him to the future, or him going to other countries, losing his loved ones on the fight.
Basically, this take on the character answers the "Who is Superman?" question.
Then you have the ideal approach, the Morrison-esque take on the character. You make him an ideal, you can show his feats, you can expand on time and space, make him a Intergalactic saviour, a liberator of oppresed galactic systems, you face him with the guardians of Oa, Mongul, etc. And you show how his figure, how his feats and his bravery inspires everything to move forward, towards tomorrow.
This take on the character answers the question of "What is Superman?"
>>83930180
>this is literally the only argument anyone uses against Superman
When will people realize that every big name protagonist in DC and Marvel is narratively invincible?
>>83943640
>>this is literally the only argument anyone uses against Superman
but it's not, there are other ones even in this thread.
>When will people realize that every big name protagonist in DC and Marvel is narratively invincible?
maybe this is why people complain about these shitty characters so much.
>>83943598
The problem is the balance between both takes on the character.
One is a human, who discovers that he is an adoptive alien. The other one is an intrinsic alien, an outcast who could never fit in our world, who "helps humanity" as a manner of retribution for his adoption.
One is a refugee going into America, working and melting into a country he loves, in a planet he considers his own. The other one is like a multimillionaire philantropist living in the third world; a priviliged outcast, trying his best to do good for the people that welcomed him in their country, in their world.
You can mix both approaches, like Geoff Johns or Donner did. But it doesn't work on a long-term narrative.
>>83943463
Well the important thing is you managed to make yourself smugly superior to them.
>>83941614
Apparently in those days someone would draw the cover and the writer would have to write the comic based on the cover
I feel like most of these is just the artist fucking with the writer
>>83941895
The other responses to this are boss, but I'd just like to add emphasis to casualty manipulation in that list. That is to say, villains who are ruthless or psychopathic enough can divert Clark's focus by forcing him to save people.
We see this all the time on a small scale of one or two or when the villain shoots a train track or whatever and then makes their escape or on a slightly larger scale during "CHOOSE" type drama, but extending the idea laterally to, for example, multiple assassination plots around the world, death traps that it is physically impossible to save everyone from, and so on, a villain can exhaust Clark both physically and more importantly mentally.
>Two thousand random people in different countries just received a box of free nike shoes with a gps and a bomb in the heel courtesy of Lexcorp's latest charity outreach program. Four will explode together on roughly opposite faces of the globe every hour unless the dead man's switch in Luthor's hand is disarmed by both a biometric scan and a calm voice activation each time.
That sort of thing. A clever villain could get two or three good "tasks" out of Superman before he figures out a way to thwart all the bombs, and those "tasks" could be components for any number of larger master plans.
Superman can be wounded by straining him towards his own ideal. A self aware villain would know that the story is on Superman's side, however, and would never use this sort of thing as a core plan in itself. Merely an object worthy of deep tactical and strategic study.
>>83930180
Because believe it or not he does suffer and struggle.
See >>83946958
I'm curious anon. What Superman stories have you read and not liked? Let me guess. None or just All-Star, right? Nothing else?
>>83929925
I think he's talking about personality wise. The real conflict with Superman should lie within himself and him trying to fit in in a world where he's basically all powerful.
>>83947091
We HAVE stories like that. We HAVE stories where he's vulnerable. We HAVE stories where he gets beat up. We HAVE stories where he's just a man trying to fit in at his 9 to 5 job and balance doing Superman stuff on the side.
The problem with these threads is that its always OP saying "Why can't Superman be more like X" and the answer always is he's been nearly everything in his decades of existence from government shill to farmboy to smiling Buddha.
Superman HAS good stories. It's just no one reads them and when a movie like BvS flops they think the character is the one to blame.
It's also fallout from those Deathbattle things where he kills Goku and the hosts claim he's a boring one dimensional nobody compared to Goku-sama.
>>83929394
Pessimist will never get Superman. You know the kind of person that thinks heroes should kill or that everything victory needs a steep cost. Superman is fundamentally an optimistic character. No Snyder he isn't Jesus because Jesus is a god. Superman isn't a god because that implies that he is so different from us that we can't ever be like him. There isn't some mystical quality of his character that is unattainable. His character is an ideal that anyone can strive for and brings out the best in us as a result.
>>83931093
What happens please I must know
Wait until Mark Millar writes his Superman story. It's going to be a new classic.
>>83942612
Superman grounded?
>>83930189
You're absolutely right, that's why he has to do the right thing and save the day
>>83930373
>Being nice isn't interesting
>>83947374
It's just not what the market wants. As a powerful WB executive I know these sorts of things.
The value of everything is measured in money. To bring out the value of Superman we have to sell out the whole darn Super-family whole hog with lots of incest, booty shaking, and fresh rhymes. Get that Game of Thrones money. Maybe give Superman a surf board and a cool hat so the kids will like him. What if we made Krypto funny and sarcastic and actually talk like Brian from Family Guy? Forbidden love's in right now, bring back Comet and Kara. Maybe introduce another Kryptonian horse and play out a love triangle for the F18-35 demographic? Most of Superman's foes seem too weird so lets tone down his powers instead and focus on Luthor as his only adversary since he's market tested already. Perhaps a 50 shades of Luthor subplot with Lois? Done. Write it, film it, cut it, sell it. I want the whole thing in theaters in 36 weeks or it's your ass.
>>83947882
Yet Sony's ideas for tasm franchise was somehow even sillier than this....
>>83947882
i would be ok with about half of those things and happy with half of those
>>83943436
This is why Pa dying is important to most Superman origin stories. It's a single event that hammers into him that he can't do everything, and he will still experience loos despite all his power.
>>83933887
This.
Superman evolves. Superman transcends Superman. This story was beautiful.
>>83949427
of course it helps when its something superman cant stop
looking at you zack synder
>>83929394
superman should have some more futuristic overtone with a lot of sci-fi elements. just look at metropolis.
look at Superman's villains. they range from dudes like Parasie, Lex Luthor to Brainiac, Darkseid.
>>83930373
Whoa the good guy main character person in a comic wins? No way!
>>83929925
Superman should really go back to episodic comics. It's a format to where the campy boyscout personality can actually fit and he doesn't have to constantly mope around to make a plot move.
>>83929394
>What should he be as a character in order not just to be an overpowered boyschout?
That is literally what he is supposed to be. I actually think he should be portrayed in films as more capable than he already is.
>Why is Superman so hard to get right?
If he's hard to get right, how come he's continuously made a profit off of his many iterations and successfully been the face of a subgenre for nearly a century?
These threads are ridiculous and made only for nerds to stroke their egos about things they have no real control over.
>>83941895
THE HEART ANON. FIRST WE ATTACK HIS HEART.
