Who is right, generally speaking?
Neither because they're both mutie scum
>>83906633
When you remember that humanity's first introduction was Magneto taking over a military base all by himself just because, it gets hard to argue that they shouldn't be hated and feared.
>>83906694
Magneto did nothing wrong
>>83906655
/thread
>>83906633
Both in a sense.
Without Malcom X, MLK's non violent movement would have never worked.
In the comic book world tho Magneto. Humans will always hate mutants.
>Mutants get random powers, ranging from cool to useless
>hurr durr Master Race
Magneto was a fucking dumbass. Just because someone is a mutant doesn't mean they're objectively superior or fit to rule. The powers are random as fuck. Xavier is completely right.
>>83906728
>Magneto did nothing wrong
GTFO /co/ mutie scum, this is a abomination free zone.
I mean, there's no way the goverment will just allow mutants to roam free. But it's inhumane to do that to mutants. And mutants technically don't have rights like actual human beings.
Magneto is basically right. Exercising strength is the only way to force stalemate, which is the best possible option.
>>83906633
With the way our world works realistically if a group of individuals existed who suddenly developed superhuman abilities they'd find themselves in the situation Erik describes or desires (i.e. Rule or be Ruled) more often than Charles.
Unless Charles himself existed, in which case he could and probably would regularly mindwipe potential threats to the dream.
Technically it wouldn't be a crime, someone forgetting how much they want to start a mutant lynching isn't exactly the worst offense.
All that is beside the point, within the comics themselves Charles is usually in the right since Erik is fucking insane in how he goes about his philosophy making it self-defeating. It's funny because Doctor Doom's equally off his rocker but he knows how to present himself so that it's seen as a character flaw and not who he is. All he's constantly done for Latveria and his people is integral to why he cannot be easily dismissed by even his worst critic.
In the public eye Magneto is synonymous with terrorism and little else, his stance on mutant society and the one or two cases of trying to support it are considered a temporary, side thing.
>Run around literally calling themselves homo superior
>Expect to not be hated and called scum
Fucking muties!
>>83906633
>Magneto facing left
>Xavier facing right
pottery
I do not believe mutants can be ruled by non-mutants. Mutants will likely be top enforcers of the new world order dictating their will to others, even if government nominally is not mutant. Not necessary apartheid level, but if such a scenario happened in real life, this is how it will go down and resisting the change will only prolong violence.
Well, Xavier... Magneto is batshit insane. A more peaceful "Let's train ourselves to combat with peace and helping humanity rather than militarizing ourselves against them" is a great approach l.
>>83906633
Magneto is a hypocrite for wanting to do to humanity what the nazis did to da jooos.
They should just retcon him as never being jewish. Every year that passes by where magneto gets older but still looks middle-aged stretches credibility even further. What is he now, 90 years old?
>implying the holocaust even happened
>>83907017
>Let's train ourselves to combat with peace
Dude the XMen are a fucking private military organization. They even used to keep their identities and base of operations secret to not be answerable to anyone. The only reason they are not considered terrorists is that they punch other mutants who instead happen to be considered terrorists.
>>83907086
If someone beat me up and I proclaim I should break his arms so he never beat me up again, does it make me a hypocrite?
Not really, unless I preach non-violence. Criticizing Magneto for being an insurgent while training child soldiers in private is more like hypocrisy.
>>83906768
>powers range from cool to useless
>humans still want to genocide them with Sentinels regardless of their individual threat level
Nah m8. A handful of literally god-tier ubermensh watered down by a majority of decidedly harmless but diverse demi-gods is miles better than a bloated population of dumbass normies.
>>83906766
Malcolm X didn't preach violence though, he preached that blacks and whites should be separated. He renounced this viewpoint later on in life btw.
Frank Horrigan has the right idea.
>>83906633
I think they're both wrong overall.
Peaceful and non violent protests depend a great deal on having public sympathy. When you're on the news people need to be able to look at you or your group and feel that the opposing force is being unreasonable and that you're being bullied or taken advantage of. Being a mutant, or rather the idea that a mutant has these destructive powers at hand diminishes the feeling that you need someones help to get out of a bad situation. Looking like a demon or an animal or anything that isn't clearly human or at least cute and helpless diminishes most peoples desire to help you.
The X-Men while showing mutants weren't all killers and despots seemed like a good idea but I think it mainly sent a message of this is what a mutant teenager can do. Could you even imagine your kid not only surviving but being victorious in these situations.
And on Magnetos end getting people to accept you or your group by fear or threats has NEVER worked. At best people would pretend ot like them for a time while working on something like the legacy virus to wipe them all out.
Genosha seemed like a good idea until you realize you're putting all or the majority of them in one place to easily bomb. Plus, I think segregation just sounds bad even in some cases where it seems to be beneficial. It's isolationist and seems more like giving up than any kind of progress being made.
I think the best thing would have been to (before the mist kills mutants thing) ally with the Inhumans. Just tell them that Mutants get treated like garbage and it would be the same for them (even though it probably wouldn't because... DIRTY MUTIES) and they need help or sanctuary.
>>83906913
>being a buttblasted flatscan
your tears are delicious
>>83906766
This post, so wrong
They are both wrong because as we've seen in real life, respectability politics and trying to be a presentable "other" doesn't even fucking work for humans with different skin tone and places of birth, so it has zero chance of working when you are a toad or shoot eye punches out your sockets
Magneto's way is wrong because, you know, murder
>>83907131
PMO that trains and uses child soldiers, no less. Lets not even get into the consent issues that having a series of powerful mind-controllers as leaders raises
>>83906633
Hopping on the "they're both fuckwits" bandwagon.
Magneto is on some kind of retarded cyclic self-fulfilling prophecy shit. Humans hate and fear mutants because Magneto is constantly trying to rule/murder humans because humans hate and fear mutants. It's beyond stupid.
Charles, on the other hand, began with the right idea. Find mutants, train them to control their powers. That's a good call. People aren't going to hate and fear a mutant as much if they know he isn't going to lose control and vaporize six city blocks. Problem is, 'ol Chuck decided that he needed to take those kids he was training and form his own clandestine army of mutant vigilantes. Fucking nobody is comforted by the idea that the Mutie Gestapo could bust in and melt their brains for hate crime.
>>83907733
Agreed with the first part regarding pacifism and respectability. That approach is a fucking joke and the best way for a movement to achieve nothing.
For the latter you're wrong, there's nothing inherently bad about murder or violence both are simple facts of existence. Violence or the threat of violence is an absolutely essential component in overthrowing oppressive systems, there has never been a single instance in history where an independence or rights movement has succeeded in its goals without violence, despite the bullshit propaganda that establishments feed the masses.
>>83906633
NOT
MAGNETO
>>83908503
>For the latter you're wrong, there's nothing inherently bad about murder or violence both are simple facts of existence.
>>83906633
what's the obsession marvelfags have about asking if a character was "right"?
>>83906633
>Who is right, generally speaking?
Cyclops
>>83906633
"Generally" Magneto is right, as human's are unable to get along with themselves, never mind mutants. Though that is partially justified, how terrifying some mutants are.
There is no way they'll just let mutants alone, but terrorizing the humans doesn't really help.
Magneto was right
We are the future Charles, not them
what a based quote. it's just the next step in evolution. if you side with xavier you are baiscally siding with inferior cro-magnon men vs homo-sapiens
Like the joke is Cyclops but he was taking elements of both of them into something new and better. until once again outside editorial forces ruined poor Scott.
Can my answer by Mags when he was trying to run the school?
>>83906856
>All he's constantly done for Latveria and his people is integral to why he cannot be easily dismissed by even his worst critic.
yeah dude, lotta dictators and tyrants try to cover their ass by saying that.
>>83908503
True, but I do not believe that Magneto can see past his preoccupation with hating all humans to effectively dismantle the system of oppression effectively.
Too much nonsense about reversing the poles and indiscrimanent threats on meaningless individuals to really do anything
>>83908859
This is an interesting stance and if I were a mutie I would embrace it.
On the flip side it does justify all the hates the muties receive.
>>83908564
Marvel Zombie propoganda perputuated by Stan Lee about how Marvel is the "smart comic" on the stands
>tfw the albatross of Insane Stan/Jack Magneto forever overshadows all Claremont's work
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh
also he went on trial for his crimes
>>83906633
If it was the real world then the Prof. Magneto is just a bastard terrorist.
In 616 however the American government is a monstrous caricature of the worst left-wing fantasies about "teh evol rethuglicans!!1!" and the general population is even worse so Xavier's peaceful integration is nothing more than stupidity.
>Magneto: "I'm a complete & total fucking hypocrite who survived the holocaust, but think of mutants as a 'superior people' and non-mutants should die"
FUCK Magneto. He's not sympathetic, he's a piece of shit.
I have always felt that the whole premise is flawed.
You can't make a statement about prejudice when characters can literally level cities.
>>83908912
Yeah, Doom is basically 1970s/80s Colonel Gadaffi's propaganda about himself - the non-western dictator who hates the west and is hated in return, but he loves his people and has done so much for them because he's just that good.
What I'm saying is that Doom's eventual fate is to be sodomised with a metal pipe by an angry mob.
>>83909034
THE clap SUB clap FIRED clap FIRST
>>83908988
>"Hurr durr mutants are good and totally not just humans with powers."
Mutants are not a different species. They're not special snowflakes. They're 1% of the world population born with an extra genome which gives them weird defects/powers..
>>83909112
And?
>>83909101
Magneto has tried to take over the world dozens of times and has super powers. Of course they should have fired first.
If Magneto didn't want to be prosecuted he shouldn't have been a fucking meglomaniac
>>83909140
So Magneto needs to get off his fucking high horse acting like he's better than everyone else strictly because he was born with a magical defect.
Even when he's in a national court to present his case he still cannot help to act like a smug piece of shit
Neither because regardless of what either of them do Mutants will never really win. They'll stop the latest racism metaphor event in the comic but they won't be equal or anything like that. Imagine if Malcom X and MLK were still protesting for the civil rights amendment 50 years later. At some point you got thing maybe we should just fuck off somewhere else.
>>83909035
pretty much, although it does inadvertantly feed into the "minorities are super predators" mindset funny enough by attempting to make mutants analogous to oppresed groups irl
>>83906655
>>83906655
/thread
Death to all of them.
>>83909092
I'd actually be ok with this if Marvel ever did it
>>83909141
>If Magneto didn't want to be prosecuted he shouldn't have been a fucking meglomaniac
iirc he didn't get arrested he offered himself up
>>83909192
you know if they both hadn't been assassinated they might be?
>>83909035
Mutant hate only really works as a metaphor for feminism.
All the other mainstream hate is like "They are all subhumans, race war now" and senator Kelly is like "They are stronger and better then me, gimme my safe space"
>>83909333
They'd still be talking about that BLM stuff yeah but imagine if black people still couldn't sit in the front of the bus or use the same water fountains or bathrooms as everyone else. At some point you got think maybe I should stop interacting with these people at all.
>>83909204
>"minorities are super predators"
Only if you focus in on the Xmen
I'm more than certain there are plenty of mutants who don't have any powers/useful powers
>>83909430
>At some point you got think maybe I should stop interacting with these people at all.
What did he mean by this?
>>83909459
Considering the books usually focus on mutants with abilities that can be used in an action setting then yeah, they make up like 99% of the presented mutant race
>>83909092
Isn't the standard of living in Latveria extremely high, even if it is a bit low-tech for the average citizen? I've always thought of it as some kind of big Mormon compound, but where the only religion is DOOM and medical care is probably leagues ahead of most first world nations. I mean, it is ultimately all to feed DOOM's ego because he gets to point out to Richards that his people are happy and healthy, but I doubt most Latverians care all that much about why DOOM takes good care of them so long as he continues to do so.
>>83909430
fuck that, why do they get to win? this is supposed to be America land of the free and if it's not we work until it is. that stupid never give up idealistic stubbornness is engrained
>>83909510
>falling for his propaganda
>>83909512
Well after 50 years of getting no where either peacefully or violently I think me and my race of super powered god children with friends in multiple alien empires would just fuck off to their own world. I mean you gotta know when to throw in the towel on the whole co-existence thing.
>>83909539
Is it propaganda when you literally are shown this in-universe? Are the writers and artists DOOM's propagandists?
>>83909737
>Are the writers and artists DOOM's propagandists?
Actually...
>>83906633
why does one of them have to be right
>>83906633
Cyclopes
>>83909807
So one can be wrong
>>83909092
> Doom gets deposed and sodomized by Richards.
> old monarchy is restored.
> goes into a worse hellhold than when Doom ran it.
> Doom gets deposed again.
> democratic government is established.
> it becomes corrupt and the person in charge tries to take over the world with Doom's toys.
So.. how is Doom a bad thing when the alternative never seems to work for that country?
>>83909510
>whole country looks like it stepped out of the 1920s
>living standards are really high h-honest!
>everyone loves me! pay no attention to the army of robots waiting to incinerate anyone who says they don't love me!
Some people sure are stupid.
Storytime. this is Ghosts from Nation-X.
>>83910092
>>83910104
>>83910114
>>83910127
>>83910144
>>83910159
>>83910168
Basically, Magneto is right. Humanity will never embrace them, mutants need to aggressively protect their own.
Magneto.
Humans won't ever accept muties. Objectively speaking, the best world for mutants is a world where they alone are its primary inhabitants. It's pretty straightforward.
Obviously Xavier is the more moral.
But neither is "wrong."
>>83909935
DOOM 2099 was basically that.
>>83910230
By your retarded logic gun owners should shoot all non owners and create their perfect utopia of gun owners where the strong all get along because they all own guns.
>>83909207
>>83909619
But more mutants are still going to be born, more kids with weird defects the subject of hate crimes. The X-Men fucking off and leaving Earth alone doesn't really help mutants in the long run.
>>83906633
Well, Magneto is a sjw, so Professor X
>>83906633
At first I thought Charles was right. Magneto is way too extremist and he thinks that his past is a justification for the terrible crimes he has done. However I felt that the X-men have lost their way in the recent years. They shutted themself off the world and actually started thinking of themself homo superior instead of human with gifts, caring more about the mutants than the humans they swear want to protect.
>>83910359
are you saying that we shouldn't do that?
>>83908859
>>83908958
It's interesting only from a stance of ignorance and self-importance.
Firstly it's artificial evolution and ultimately all the furious goose stepping is headed towards a Celestial shaped furnace in the distance.
The opposition mutants have against so much as the likes of Apocalypse and Sinister is enough to show the thinking is very flawed even at early stages of eugenics, because as already said in this thread some people do not want the face of evolution looking like Toad or Glob.
>>83910434
>They shutted themself off the world
The world did that too them. The mutants didn't decide to live on a rock island for the fun of it, they were forced to retreat there.
>>83910359
>all get along because they all own guns
They'd start fighting each other over who has the best guns.
>>83908697
The flaw with that kind of reasoning is that mutants themselves have "human" traits. They share the exact same flaws as humans, and it's hypocritical of muties to say "humans are wrong because of their way of thinking" because muties share those same traits. Just because you can shoot lasers or fireballs or whatever doesn't make you immune to having emotions and acting irrationally.
Mutants are like everybody else, except for the part where they can be a serious threat if they let their human side get the best of them. I really just never understood Magneto's retarded genocidal tendencies
>you are not the master race, therefore you need to be exterminated
that is just straight up xenophobia. Pretty fucking ironic coming from a jew. Humans have all the right to fear mutants, possibly not outright hate them but muties have time after time proven to be just as xenophobic as humans are. It goes both ways, and it's one of the main reasons why mutants and humans will never co-exist peacefully.
>>83910206
>"There is no future in integration!"
>go back to your mutants-only (save for a handful of token human servants) armed compound while smirking about how enlightened you are now
Can x-writers go a single book without making mutants massive hypocrites?
>>83910434
Have they really? They shut themselves off from the world because they were down to less than 200 mutants. Their actions make sense, I don't really recall anytime they really recalled themselves as superior to humanity.
>>83910509
yeah, when fucking Osborne was in charge.
But after Osborne fell, they remained on that island until AvX right?
>>83910538
Exactly which is why Magneto with his Island paradise of mutants is bullshit. Yes rule them ironically like Hitler, oppressing weak mutations and keeping the strongest in his personal army that he'll inevitably use to attack the human world.
Fuck Magneto
>>83910554
You missed the point. Magneto understands the folly of his supervillain ways, and thinks that the present circumstances are an ironic, hollow, victory.
>>83907017
This. Magneto weakens mutants by turning the world against them, the best way for him to aid mutant kind would be by joining the X Men and bringing the hammer down on threats while Xavier talks about how there's no need to worry about mutants and stops new threats from forming.
>>83910562
Pretty sure Cyclops says he'd sacrifice any number of humans to save a mutant back when Scarlet Witch wiped them nearly extinct.
>>83907086
/pol/
>>83910509
>>83910562
Not only that, but for a time the ONE was literally forcing at least half of the world's mutant population to be on the mansion's grounds.
>>83910565
Because he wasn't the only threat.
>>83910359
Works in Georgia.
>>83908082
This
Magneto is responsible for all of this shit, and Charles is too much of a shitty person to be a good leader for mutant kind.
The only solution is to get Red Skull in, he seems to know what he's talking about.
>>83910562
>>83910633
Yeah, I guess that when you're left with less than 200 of your species, you kinda want to save the savable. Have to admit also, and this is my fault, I judged the beheavior of some mutants (telepaths mostly) as the general behavior of all the mutans.
Still, I feel that they isolated themself in a wrong way. Like if they just didn't want to try anymore.
>>83910565
You forget that even after Dark Avengers ended they were still under threat. Especially because of the impending attack to their island by the future nimrods. They were almost genocided during Second Coming
Admittedly though, during that time Cyclops also went off the deep end with X-factor and all that
>>83908503
CRAWLING
>>83910628
dude still got a good point
>>83908082
this pretty much.
Especially when they formed the X-force.
The problem is both never really change and evolve from their narrative.
>>83910620
I'm gonna need proof of that because that doesn't sound like Scott, I mean unless it while he was tripping on Phoenix.
>>83910700
They were still trying to a degree, saving the world and all that nonsense. I mean not to say that there aren't a ton of Mutant assholes, there are a ton of Superhero Assholes in general they're not special.
>>83907086
He's biologically in his thirties I thinkthough some people still draw him as an old man
>>83910823
>He's biologically in his thirties
He got a regrown clone body at some point I think.
>>83910818
>Never really evolve
But every writer seems to trip over their dick to try and reveal Professor X as a bigger hypocritical piece of shit who abused his powers, went back on his message, or betrayed those he promised to help.
Magneto has been playing at Anti-Hero who has to hold back his hateful tendencies longer than he's been a villain.
>>83910886
Twice. Once by Kang another time by High Evolutionary. Really they should just make it so his powers/secondary evolution makes it so he doesn't age. Otherwise people wll keep asking.
>>83910279I know.
>>83911003
Ah, that classic Land pose.
>>83906633
They are both right but Xavier is coming from the left and Magneto from the right.
>>83911003
Magneto has been deaged three times.
> Alpha, one of Magento's own creations deaged him to a child. Erik the Red aged him to his late 30s when he found him in Muir Island.
> Astra during Magneto War. When she found him post-X-Men: Prime, Magneto's mind was a vegetable thanks to the mind wipe by Chuck in X-Men #25. To repair it, she genetically created a clone to learn how Magneto's body works. She then genetically deaged him again and healed his mind. Then she made him face off against her ultimate clone Joseph because comics.
> High Evolutionary as shown here. >>83911003
Magneto during the 60s to 70s was smart enough to do genetics and created mutants himself (Savage Land Mutates, were created by him). So the man can deage himself if he truly wanted too.
the real problem is this is all about an ending for the mutants and bc of comics that's never gonna happen.
>>83911153
hell wouldn't be the craziest thing he did with magnets
>>83906633
Neither.
Magneto is ultimately wrong because there's nothing intrinsic to mutants that would make them better at ruling. Magnet powers don't make you a good decision-maker.
Xavier's goal of non-violent, peaceful understanding between mutants and humans is extremely attractive, but it is shown pretty regularly that it's near impossible by goodwill alone, as there are groups within humanity that will never accept mutants and will go to extraordinary lengths to kill them. Speaking softly but carrying a big stick is the only realistic approach - don't initiate conflict, but don't shy away from striking back. The X-Men should had utterly annihilated all those religious cults and sects that keep acting as a breeding ground for people who build giant robots and bombs for killing mutants.
Basically, what I'm saying is that Cyclops was right.
Casual here, what was cyclops view?
I keep hearing about him, does he lean more toward Magneto or Xavier?
>>83912432
Concussive view.
>>83912432
Cyclops' view changes throughout his history.
Currently the post above yours describes it pretty well. He doesn't want to start wars, but when some profiteering company of insane cult starts killing mutants, he'll get a good bunch of pipe smokin' muggas together and kill everyone involved.
Man, X-Force was great.
>>83908663
/thread and it took way too long to get here
>>83908563
For most of human history violence was as common as breathing. The world doesn't revolve around the values of soft post-industrial peoples who are so removed from the natural occurrences of death and violence they've developed a child-like mentality regarding reality and mortality.
Even if mutants were real, there would be nothing wrong in exterminating them.
>emo brat destroys city because girl refused to date him
No one needs this shit, so its the humans who are right to hate them.
>>83906633
Magneto. Xavier is a faggot who peace solutions will lead to nothing.
>>83913134
that's not even the worst aspect.
there are mutants with poor control over their powers (as Cyclops was traditionally portrayed and to a lesser extent Rogue) who are a danger to friend and foe alike.
But it goes deeper than that.
What is someone like Wolverine or Beast supposed to do when someone like Magneto, Iceman or Jean Grey goes nuts? there are both godlike mutants and near human mutants. The two have very different needs from society and yet Marvel as a whole likes to pretend that taking powers away from the likes of Magneto or Jean Grey is equivalent to oppressing gay people.
>>83913134
Or worse, fucking mutants who actively cause destruction. Usually with Magneto blessing them like the fucking Caliph of ISIS.
Fuck mutants.
>>83913029
>most of the world is post industrial
>hurr caveman might makes right morality is the best morality
>>83906633
Segregation is the answer
>>83906633
Neither
Magneto is an extremist how never stops talking about the 6 gorillion. Xavier is a fucking hippie who thinks we can live in harmony.
