Is Bruce a good father?
>>83901214
Not to Jason, Tim or Cass
>>83901214
You've made this same thread before with the same picture. You're just looking for moral support on your anti-batman bias.
If you want to actually have a discussion, try not using a panel from something written by Geoff Johns, who is notorious for writing a shitty Batman.
>>83901214
No, but It's ok Dick can cover all the bases with Damian as brother and Father
Not at all. The fact that Dick turned out as well as he did is probably almost exclusively due to the safety net he had with the Teen Titans.
Note how Tim, Jason, Damian, and Cass are all a mess.
>>83901264
>>83901384
I see we have a lot of casuals in this thread
>>83901410
How would a casual fan even know who Cassandra Cain is?
>>83901214
>implying Bruce and Alfred didn't have a giant party planned and Damian blew them off to have his edgy "standing alone in the dark" moment with a cake he baked himself
>>83901456
Only a casual would he dumb enough to think Bruce wasn't a good father figure for Cass.
>>83901486
Do you remember what happened to her in OYL and almost everything after?
Bruce didn't do shit to help her.
>>83901472
I'm actually convinced it's not even his birthday but he used some esoteric calendar to calculate his age to be 13 just so he could lead his own TT team
>>83901552
Literally everyone regards that entire thing as terrible and OOC for everyone involved but I suppose its convenient when it allows you to badmouth a character you dont like.
Also it was Bruce who helped her get her mind right again and then ended up adopting her so you're wrong anyway, dumbass.
>>83901486
>>83901552
My dad is an asshole, but he is a better dad than Bruce Wayne was for Cass by the benefit of not letting me get kidnapped and brainwashed into a murder machine by supervillains for two years
Remember, Cassandra became Batgirl because she felt guilty about how she killed someone when she was a little girl. Letting her build up a 2 digit body count while being brainwashed would be like letting all of Dick Grayson's friends and relatives die in easily preventable circus accidents.
>>83901214
Not even close
>>83901698
>Contracts amnesia after sacrificing himself to save Gotham
>Alfred doesn't tell him he has a child
>Bad father
Just how retarded are you?
>>83901384
>Tim
He had his own father before and now he has his own family, I don't even know why people count him
>Jason
Except Bruce did try to be a good father and things went only bad because of circumstances
>Damian
He was raised by the league of assassins, really can't blame Batman. Especially considering how they hadn't much time to interact with Batman "dying" two times and Damian one
>>83901698
It's not like Damian is a good son anyway
>>83901811
Alfred is a bad grandfather
>>83901811
let's also not forget about all the troubles he went to resurrect him
>>83901864
>went to a Hell planet to resurrect his dead biological son
>Didn't raise a finger to save Jason
Mm hmm
>>83901552
>>83901691
Isnt Titans just a case of convenient writing? The Justice League generally doesnt get involved when it comes to Teen Titans so they can have thier own drama and stuff.
I dont think this can be pinned on Bruce as a character.
He shouldn't be one in the first place...
>>83901890
Not even Batman can defeat the cosmic power called writers and fan reactions
He is, but the boys could use a mother as well.
>>83901552
>>83901691
Are you two just autistic or did you somehow forget that its agreed upon by everyone that Cassandra Cain becoming a killer again was the result of shitty writing that completely destroyed her character?
Also the fact that he didn't take her with Dick and Tim on their trip in the first place made zero sense considering a their interactions in Cass' solo.
Even then, in the end Bruce was more than willing to trust and forgive her for the terrible ahit she did.
>people bringing up pre-Nu 52 stuff as if that matters
>>83901214
Does anybody have that pic of Bruce firing Dick and kicking him out of the house because Dick had friends other than Batman?
Because no he's not a very good dad. Most writers go out of the way to make him a bad one even if he does love them.
>>83901214
He has his moments...
>>83901456
>What is Wikipedia?
>>83902634
Or even /co/ waifu threads.
>>83902217
>got Jason and tied him to a chair in the cave after this
>pitted the two against each other
>don't even remember him apologizing for this after Dick and Jason save Alfred
Dixon is the king of batjerk and I'm not quite sure what he gets from this.
Why would Dick want to go back to that.
>>83902764
Yeah, considering his works I think he had a soft spot for Dick and that made him turn Bruce into a jerk just because
>>83902764
>got Jason and tied him to a chair in the cave after this
Oh yeah out of context that's possibly the most creepy comic panel I've ever seen.
>>83901214
I'm surprised no ones realized the significance of this panel. 13 was Damien's age in the bad future where Hurt kills batman, and its vaguely implied that Damien made a "Deal with the devil" for the powers he has in Batman #666. Normally I would say those events were prevented, but with this panel and the smirk that follows...
>>83902164
Batdad!!!! I'd kill for Tynion to do another moment like this.
>>83902853
More like he realizes he's 13 now which is a teenage which means he can lead the Teen Titans
>>83901214
Morrison wrote him as becoming a good father, albeit fucking it up along the way, until his fuck up killed Dami. New 52 largely destoryed any fatherly traits he had
>>83901472
With the way they're writing Damian out of partnering with Bruce, I doubt it.I still don't get why Damian and Duke can't both be Robins other than Snyder not wanting to deal with Damian.
>>83902217
Bruce wasn't a dad to Dick though. Dick was more of a brother to him. Yes, I understand the age difference there was intially, but you have t remember that Bruce is a major manchild.
>>83902997
It's purely Snyder's fault but Dick is basically Damian's father anyway so it doesn't matter
Honestly? It all depends on the writer. There were plenty of stories where Bruce and Dick have a healthy relationship, and he even debuted his Nightwing identity pre-Crisis while they were on good terms, because in the Bronze Age, Dick was still Robin even after he went off to college and his own solo adventures. It was in the modern age that they retconned in the idea of Bruce "firing" him from being Robin, but it was still Bruce being overprotective. Batman bitchslapping Robin and saying "LEAVE THE CAVE" and all that shit is stuff later writers have embellished.
Bruce also had a warmer relationship with Jason not only in the pre-Crisis stories, where Jason was functionally a different character, but in the Mike Barr/Alan Davis run on Detective Comics, where 'Jay' was a spritely laughing daredevil ala classic Robin. They did the original version of the "Nothing to Fear" story from BTAS, where Scarecrow strips Batman of his fears but he stays in control by thinking about his worst fear - Jason's death. Doug Moench wrote Bruce as being self-aware enough to question whether training Jason was the best way to channel his anger after all, but both he and Jim Starlin show that Jason had homicidal anger issues already. Had the fans voted for the character to live, Bruce probably would've helped redeem him, but we know how that went.
As for Tim, Dixon wrote them as having a healthy relationship, and that continued until War Games, which is another of those mid-00s Batman arcs unanimously held to be utter shit.
>>83902996
>his fuck up killed Dami
How? He closed him in the batcave with Alfred and told him to stay put
I'm pretty sure Batman wouldn't want to train anyone to do what he does. It's a pretty ridiculous idea desu, you'd think he'd realize it's his own stupid crusade and that all these kids would be better off going to school
Hell, that's how he approached Tim Drake at first, only consulting him for detective purposes
Anything after the third Robin or the death of Stephanie Brown is just retarded and starts to look like Scooby Doo or Superfriends or some shit
>>83903037
Depending on the writer Bruce is absolutely Dick's dad.
Dixon pushed that angle really hard which is strange it didn't stick like so much other stuff he created/started did, and so did Wolfman.
>>83901352
>high selling special shows bruce neglecting his son
>surprised by people having questions about his parenting skills
its not just one person anon
>>83903366
if anything that special shows that no one wants to spend time with Damian
>>83901214
He is a great father and only casuals think otherwise.
Also, nice Johns image.
>>83903366
>>high selling special shows bruce neglecting his son
You mean a special by JOHNS.
>>83903037
>Bruce wasn't a dad to Dick though.
He is, like the whole point was that bruce didnt want to take on the responsability at first and it wasnt until dick joined the titans that he matured enought to take the role of a father.
>>83903037
>Dick was more of a brother to him
This is the strangest meme on /co/.
>>83903122
>I'm pretty sure Batman wouldn't want to train anyone to do what he does.
He trained all his kids to be the best humans the world has to offer. He wanted all of them to end his crusade to improve the world.
>>83903600
They have a hard time understanding that relationships can change with time or that bruce is a loving father, this thread is made by autists that hate batman.
>>83903453
>>83903535
That's what really separates the plebs from the patricians - whether you judge/read comic books based on the characters, or the writers.
>>83903713
Blaming Johns here is weird anyway considering Damian was clearly happy. Maybe he just asked for some time to himself?
>>83903037
Bruce was literally Dick's dad throughout the entirety of the 80s, 90s, and well into the 00s. He even got adopted in Gotham Knights in the 00s. There was a bit of it in the 70s like some issue where Bruce basically gets empty nest syndrome and goes through a mini mid life crisis when Dick goes off to college, but most of it then was them just being friends.
Morrison was the one who pushed "they're brothers" thing and it just continued into new 52 since Snyder seems to prefer them as equals.
Wolfman, Dixon, Grayson, and seemingly Johns all kept and pushed the "they're father and son" for decades.
>>83903070
A father should be aware of how their child behaves and what they are and aren't going to listen to when they say things to them
Staying put in the Batcave is something Damian literally never does.
>>83903600
They probably haven't read that much beyond new 52. And honestly they're hardly brothers in new 52 either. They seem mostly like really close friends and equals unless they have flashbacks to Dick as Robin then Bruce is more of a dad.
>>83903765
>Blaming Johns here is weird
Is not. Johns interventions with the batfamily in the last time include had bruce being to fault for almost gettiing dick killed, exposed, and then failing to save him. Johns is a guy you go for to see superman have a beer with pa kent watching a game, not for Batman.
Hell even dixon a batman writter fucked up with the whole batjerk thing: He needed tension between bruce and dick and extended the problems of the batfamily that were solved years before in prodigal.
>>83903904
he literally closed him into the batcave, not really his fault Damian is apparently able to bypass al kind of security system because the writer wanted so
>>83903417
>>>.Fucking hating on Damian
I wasnt buying this casual shit up until now but this is some true casual shit.
If you know the character, everything about him is endearing as shit.
>>83903928
excuse you but Johns let Bruce and Dick hug for the first time since probably the 50s or 60s
>>83903925
There's 2 things you need to know if a writter gets batman, regardless if they are into the spooky terror stuff, superhero stuff or detective-crime stuff: His relationship with Superman and his batdad side.
>>83903980
and you clearly can't read
as expected from a Damian fan
>>83901214
no
he's too busy homolusting and obsessing over joker to parent properly
>>83901214
No
He tries
>>83903928
It wasn't Bruce's fault though and the Bruce and Dick moments in FE were really sweet.
You can tell Johns does like Bruce and Dick's relationship since he did the same thing with Infinite Crisis too where Bruce loving Dick basically kept that Superman from using Batman's help to fuck shit up.
>>83903980
>If you know the character, everything about him is endearing as shit.
I agree, but that's only true for the reader, while I think that anon meant from an in-universe prospective because Damian isn't the nicest person to be around
>>83903925
>They seem mostly like really close friends and equals unless they have flashbacks to Dick as Robin then Bruce is more of a dad.
Almost like how real father son relationships work. Where when the son becomes an adult they are on generally equal ground but prior to that there is a definite difference in roles.
>>83904060
>>83904016
That's even more stupid then. Dick, Bruce, and Alfred clearly understand him and care about him.
What that guy said is only somewhat applicable to Tim.
>>83903983
>excuse you but Johns let Bruce and Dick hug for the first time since probably the 50s or 60s
Even miller had bruce being tender to Dick.
>>83904209
the point is that that image is showing him all alone, Bruce isn't the only one missing
>>83904231
Yeah but that was after abusing him and making him a killer
>>83901214
>dresses up as his fursona and beats the mentally ill
You'd be better off as an orphan.
>>83904290
What's the context, you intellectually dishonest son of a bitch?
>>83904402
It's just two panels
Damian is alone with the birthday cake and then a panel of him smirking because he's about to go beat up some TT people
>>83904402
>being this aggressive for no reason
no wonder you are a fan of damian
>>83904456
alone in what looks like a cellar for some reason, no wonder the rest of them couldn't find the party.
Yes, for he watches over his most precious beloved one
>>83904809
Gotham is his wife
>>83904456
>Cherry picking
>>83904462
>Defending cherry picking
>>83904929
Don't ask for context and then get mad, anon.
>>83903048
>so it doesn't matter
But it does. Especially because they're doing it such a haphazard manner. I doubt they'll even explain it.My autism can't take it.
>>83904957
>spoiler
Well at least you admit you.
>>83904952
I can get mad if you dont give anything because that would ruin your farce of an argument.
>>83904996
Read Rebirth to see the two panels then.
>>83903037
This, Bruce wasn't a father to Dick and Tim.
Jason and Damian on the other hand are his kids and he does love both of them a lot.
>ITT: autists trying to understand the canon timeline of a highly popular mainstream cape comic character
kek
DC and Marvel will make their heroes do anything to get a few coins. There's also the fact Batman already had 2943982593 writers with differents views over his personality.
>>83904957
Yes, this. I'm ready to accept all kind of ridiculous excuses, as long as I get something!
Otherwise I feel that they want me to forget Damian's existance completley, which pisses me off.
>>83905224
>in Supersons
>headlining Teen Titans
They aren't forgetting him. If anything they are using his popularity to push others.
>>83905224
He's the star of Teen Titans, will star in Super Sons, and will be in Nightwing. Why do you think they're trying to make you forget him?
>>83904929
>first guy claims the picture proves bruce is a bad dad because he isn't there
>someone else says "actually nobody is there other than damian"
>WHY DID YOU SAY THAT? YOU ASSHOLE! WHAT'S THE CONTEXT? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT THING?
autism
>>83903876
>entirety of the 80s,
This period where Jason was introduced and Dick was with the teen titans. Bruce was hardly a father to Dick in that time because he was busy with Jason.
And Dick was a grown man in 90s and 00s.
>>83905224
>the Damifag learned proper grammar
Noooooooooo
No, not really.
Alfred is the real father figure to the Bat family.
>>83905278
Read New Teen Titans and the corresponding Batman/'Tec issues because the entire thing is a son angsting at wanting to get out of his father's shadow to be his own man and growing up in general
And yes Dixon pushed Bruce and Dick being father and son. He had Dick call Bruce his father multiple times, which doesn't stop when the son is an adult. And that's not getting into Robin Year One, the flashbacks he did, etc.
>>83905278
>And Dick was a grown man in 90s and 00s.
And?
They still pushed the father and son thing very hard and made it so the guy that raised him was considered Dick's father.
>>83905263
>Cant read
>Doesnt value context
>Still thinking your opinion is worth shit
>>83905594
yeah, it's kinda impessive you think your opinion is worth anything
especially considering you can't follow a simple discussion
>>83905577
>>83905338
Dick did see Bruce as a father figure (I'm not denying that), but Bruce did not see himself as a father to Dick.
I have read the 80s Batman/'Tec and the way Bruce treated Jason was really different compared to how he treated Dick. He even told Jason once l that he want him to consider him as a father while he keep saying that Dick was a friend and good partner.
>>83905280
They could just have discovered that Chrome has a spellchecker.
>>83905653
>NO U
>>83906263
>all this because someone pointed out that the panels were just Damian with a cake and then smiling
>>83901552
>using editorial mandate bullshit to exemplify that
I take it you weren't on /co/ when OYL was going down.
>>83902087
Don't forget that the birds of prey and the outsiders were to Cass what the titans were to the robins.
But she wasnt used as she should. Then there was the whole steph bullshit.
>>83902764
>i'm not quite sure what he gets from this.
He was doing like a million bat related titles, he forced that drama and shit to make things easier to himself.
>>83907027
> that time Barbara used Stephanie's "dead" body to spook Misfit from being Batgirl.
> same time Barbara bitch slaps Misfit for talking about Cassandra the wrong way.
>>83901552
Anon please Bruce did do something about Cassandra.
>>83907369
> proof how disturbed she is.
You know these two pages sting worse than the entire OYL story. Bruce just sweeping all of it under a rug and calling Cassandra "disturbed".Then we find out in Supergirl that Bruce and Tim knew where she held her half of the League of Assassins and did NOTHING.
You know I can almost understand now why Tim became so close to her after all this shit. Because he felt guilty as hell for leaving her like this.
>>83903959
He literally broke in to the Batcave in his first appearance.
>>83902164
> he gave her the first loving hug.
>>83907369
>>83907444
>"Hey Batman, I know my understanding why you have a sidekick is a fundamental part of my origin - like, the entire reason why I even became Robin, and we trust each other more than any prior Dynamic Duo, but y'know, I suddenly have to ask if you're only using me as a human shield cuz some psycho-bitch voiced a bunch of stupid, obvious complaints that casualfags who only know Batman and Robin by their costumes have been making since the 40s."
Holy shit Beechen writing really was the WORST.
>>83907679
It was a fucking mess. Poor Cass.
>>83907679
I saw an Adam Beecham letter in the back of Cerebus issue and I was floored
>>83907758
> DC gives Beechen a fourth shot at Cass. He does do this. >>83902087 to which only one other comic ever acknowledges, and slightly Snyder/Higgins.
> but he also wrote the beginning which was in the first few pages.
Tell me does this fucking page look new reader friendly?!
>>83908074
>>83908246
So how does the talk Bruce has with the Robins go with "The Bats & the Cats?"
>>83909833
>>83909833
>if she hits you she likes you
It's hard to argue that he's a good father since all his 'kids' end up in life-threatening situations constantly.
Granted that most of the Robins have good reasons to want to fight crime, and comics operate on a different set of moral rules, but a lot of the stuff that he does wouldn't fly for one second in the real world.
I mean, if Phoenix Jones decided that he wanted to adopt a 'kid sidekick' to follow him around citizens-arresting rowdy drunks (or whatever it is that he actually does) he'd be crucified for reckless endangerment.
Even if Bruce himself means the best for the Robins he really can't be doing them any flavors by getting them wound up in his own personal grudge against crime.
>>83910216
>tfw this is applicable to atleast three of the robins. Reverse on the 4th
>>83909833
This
>>83910216
>if she hits you she likes you
If there's anything bruce is terrible as a father is teaching his kids how to beahave with women:
Dick is a unfaithful slut that thinks having 2 girls in different cities os ok as long as you love both.
Jason is the most normal one, he just wants casual sex. YES, Jason is the fucking normal one.
Tim first fell in love with the daughter of a criminal that had a kid, and then when he missed his best friend he started fucking his ex, he is bruce tier when it comes to wanting to fuck the wrong girl
Damian thinks being rude to a girl and putting her in their place and fighting with her means she likes you back, and that if you show money or how much power you have you cna conquer the hearth of any girl.
Bruce first romantic relationships were with girls he trained with in asia, and europe, and then as batman he had a thing for sleeping with supervillians.
That added to the fact his "secret identity" is a way to have casual random sex to manage his "stress" something not even alfred believes.
Then there's Cass. the reason why Bruce was such a hardass when it comes to cass liking someone was that he KNEW the kind of degenerate thing boys want to do with girls, and Cass was his princess, but obviously instead of doing something normal and telling Cass he wants her to be happy and not have a heart broken, he goes full "tell your kid to stay away from my girl or i will destroy him".
>>83910285
>the ultimate man wants his kids to be the best people they can be
He doesnt train his boys to fight his battles, he wants Dick to be better than him, to lead the league someday, Same for every kid he had, he just want to turn them happier, stronger people than him.
When every one of his kids has saved the world at least once, it means that he is just a father wanting his kids to reach full potential, will dick be better as a police in new york? No, it would had been a waste.
>>83910564
To be fair, Superboy was an incredible little shit at the time.
But yes, aside from that.
>>83910564
So does Bruce encourage Batcest? Cause.. Babs/Dick and if we go with the ending of GatesCass/Tim.
>>83910564
>YES, Jason is the fucking normal one.
He banged Talia, nearly did Barbara , and fuck knows what happened with Starfire.
There needs to a comic where they all go see a group therapist the revelations would be comedy gold.
>>83910788
Babs isnt part of the batfamily, she never was.
>>83910638
I totally see Bruce using half of his storaged Kryptonite into a chastiti belt for Cass
>>83910810
>There needs to a comic where they all go see a group therapist the revelations would be comedy gold.
This needs to happen
What's with dickfans? They bitch all the time about bruce and how dick should be his equal and get out of his shadow, but also get really defensive whenever someone say that they aren't father and son.
Like seriously, what the heck?
>>83910788
Barbara marries Tim in the Arkham games continuity and fucked Bruce in Beyond.
>>83910920
The only bit that I actually mind about them having a relationship is that Tim in that universe is not basically her intellectual equal.
>>83910810
>>83910876
>Tim and Jason turn out to be the most well adjusted of the four robins according to their situations.
>>83911034
Then the people of Gotham are incredibly lucky they don't know that the most mentally stable of their caped crusaders are a homicidal zombie, and his repressed bisexual adopted brother. It's just lucky the villains are slightly less sane than the "good" guys.
>>83911297
Best not to tell them about the mind-reading martial artist murder-child. They can just keep on thinking she's just shy.
>>83910564
>Jason is the most normal one, he just wants casual sex. YES, Jason is the fucking normal one.
>>83910810
>He banged Talia, nearly did Barbara , and fuck knows what happened with Starfire.
Before the reboot Jason was a beta with mommy issues. That's why Talia manipulated him and sexed him up.
Scott Lobdell now turned him into James Bond or something.
>>83910564
>That added to the fact his "secret identity" is a way to have casual random sex to manage his "stress" something not even alfred believes.
I fucking hate when writers do that. It doesn't even make any sense. If Batman as playboy Bruce fucked all the girls he went out with all the women he went out would question his many scars and bruises and gossip among themselves.
>>83911390
>Best not to tell them about the mind-reading martial artist murder-child
Most of this sentence also works for Damian too, may God have mercy on the people of Gotham.
>>83911443
To be fair the Barbara thing was in Eternal.
>>83911443
>>83911508
I actually think that before the reboot Jason was virgin before fucking Talia. That is, if you ignore all the prostitute/abuse origin that Winick and Danial alluded to.
>>83911568
Hell of a way to loose it though, going by the scene immediately before the sex, they were both probably thinking about Bruce, just to add another layer of fucked up to the whole thing.
>>83901828
>Except Bruce did try to be a good father and things went only bad because of circumstances
Yes, because constantly sending your child into extreme danger is the quality of an excellent father.
>>83911492
Bruce is an adventurer that goes to the amazon and brakes his arms in the alpes all the time. He is a known Extreme sports fan. Also: kinky sex.
>>83911696
Yeah, Jason before the reboot had this whole issue where he fixated on saving/rescue female figures seeing his own mother in them. So any older female villain would take advantage of that and use him.
>>83905826
What was the L word?
>>83911888
No, man. Bruce is almost a virgin. Those dates are nothing but flirt. He saves the kinky sex for the villains, because he knows that he can't have them.
>>83912083
love
reminder that Bruce is a rape victim and should not be forced to raise his rape baby but he still tries, it's not his fault he's bad at it
>>83912296
Retconning it into rape was stupid.
>>83911840
he was a petty criminal in Gotham, he was always in danger
also if Ditf is still canon Jason went on a journey to find his mother because Bruce decided to stop him from being Robin anymore because it wasn't good for Jason
>>83910883
daddy issues are weird
>>83901214
Not too much.
