it has been a pretty poor movie in general so far but this one scene is so pants on head retarded i had to pause the film and say something about itdid pa kent just tell clark he should have fucking let those children die Jonathan fucking kent
i havent been able to track down a copy of watchmen yet and i dident see BvS while it was in cinema and the dvds not out yet but the pretty good of sucker punch is far outshone by the fucking shit of this film so far why did they hire this man for more fucking films.
scene imediently following it is fairly good at least
>>83895257
the movie made a lot of money and Christopher Nolan gave him a glowing recommendation
>>83895331
the film is getting a lot better in general but its still not that great
>>83895257
Poster always makes me think he's taking a selfie for some superhero dating service profile.
>>83895765
not a fan of the way theykilled pa kentthe scene could have worked fine with some other hero they certaintly managed to make something that should have seemed like shitty writing actual emotional but it doesent work for superman
still it says something about how bad this film is that only 2 of my many complaints boil down to not mah
>>83895553
The movie made more than Batman Begins and Batman - when you don't take into account ticket prices. WHEN YOU DO, it didn't.
The original Chris Reeves Superman didn't open in Imax theaters or 3D and it opened in less than 20% of the theaters/screens that Men of Steel opened in AND it still made SOLD more tickets than any other DC movie save TDKR and TDK (in ticket sold).
Nolan was a producer on it, was he supposed to shit on something he had a hand in?
>>83895945
>superman crashes zod into the middle of town with no regard for the people there
the fuck
>did pa kent just tell clark he should have fucking let those children die
No he spit the "mabye" line out in desperation to get his point across. He looked like he was going to puke as he said it.
Which is what he said immediately after "Their is more at stake here then our lives or the lives of those around us"
>>83896430
1.) This is Superman in his very first few hours on the job
2.) He was in a blind rage from his mom almost being choked go death
3.) He was looking down at Zod's face as he punched him he didn't see the town coming.
>>83896430
>superman crashes zods officer i dont read enough superman to recognise into the ihop with no regard for the people inside to set up a supes looks at an old friend shot.
>>83896523
What the fuck is wrong with you?
He just tackled Faora from killing another A-10 pilot, where he landed was a accident.
Let me guess your one of those dickless fucks that wants Superman to be a Mary sue that does everything perfectly and never makes mistakes even in a world that intentionally sets out to portray these things realistically.
>>83896506
>No he spit the "mabye" line out in desperation to get his point across. He looked like he was going to puke as he said it.
well you do have a fair point there i must admit
>Their is more at stake here then our lives or the lives of those around us
this one is not a fair point though that line just highlighted the bad of the previous line
>3.) He was looking down at Zod's face as he punched him he didn't see the town coming.
this one is just retarded hes fucking superman he has the senses to be able to see the town well in advance and the knowledge of the area to not make a mistake like that. chalk it up to rage sure but he knew what he was doing.
>>83895257
His answer to Clark's question was "Maybe" not yes.
If you knew that if your son used his powers to save a bunch of kids the government would rock up on your doorstep and take him away to do god knows what to him what answer would you give him? Pa Kent didn't want those kids to die but he didn't have another way to save those kids.
>>83896549
auctualy i think supermans power level is one of the few things this movie is getting right except for an aparent inability to correct his course during a tackle
honestly in the initial fuel station crash scene it looked like he actually lowered himself down. (although to be fair that can be written off as them not getting the angle right at the start of the sequence and only having time to fix it at the end rather then reshooting the whole scene)
>>83896603
Yeah but the thing is superman is meant to be hugely influenced by his upbringing and if jonathan is willing to make those sacrifices he should be to. problem is that wouldent be superman so we have that whole my father was wrong copout.
this whole movie is shoring up plotholes with stupid shit
>>83896561
>this one is not a fair point though that line just highlighted the bad of the previous line
Yes it fucking is. If thousands of people die in the social upheavals caused by the reveal that aliens exist then saving the kids would have been for naught.
He doesn't have radar vision he was looking down at the ground not forward in the direction they were headed.
>except for an aparent inability to correct his course during a tackle
No its a realistic and consistent aspect they gave his powers.
Later in the film he propels himself out of a collapsing building and he tries to slow down and goes into a tumble crashing into a parking garage as a result.
>>83896652
THEIR IS NO ONE SINGLE FUCKING WAY TO WRITE SUPERMAN.
They chose to write a non naive non mary sue Superman that has limited options and choices and not solve everything powers.
He is STILL fucking Superman regardless if he is a version that does actually have to consider the greater good.
>>83896523
>superman stops to save the falling soldier
now theres the superman i know
i get what they were going for here superman is new to this that scene is a significant development in his rise to herodom it just falls flat
they thought they needed to have the soldiers shooting at him first to make it work though and it just muddys the meaning now its about both supes and him proving to the soldiers hes on there side.
>>83896693
>Yes it fucking is. If thousands of people die in the social upheavals caused by the reveal that aliens exist then saving the kids would have been for naught.
wasent the whole point that he was wrong though
>>83896766
No he wasn't wrong.
His point was that Clark couldn't be revealed YET before he is capable of acomplishing great things.
As a child he could still be taken away or killed by the government.
>>83896746
i must admit i am a sucker for the enemy dragging away there wounded it was an especially nice touch in that god awfull battle of los angles movie.
i also like that they auctualy had her get wounded she simply hasent been on earth long enough to get the strength to shrug that off
>>83895257
The point was that Pa was afraid what would happen to his son if people found out he was an alien. But he knew his son did the right thing. That's why he said maybe.
Now the tornado scene, that was retarded.
>>83896881
ok that codex twist was retarded for a while most of my complaints were not mah but it seems we are back to the more general retardation of the opening (not the same sort of retardation those were more meta problems this is a plot one)
>>83896920
at first i dident mind the tornado scene to much it fit with the previous characterization of pa so far but thinking further on that its not entirely clear why clark couldent just help at a human level
still that aspects only a problem when you hold it up to scrutiny.
>>83896920
>That's why he said maybe.
The problem is "maybe" means for many "yes you should but I dond't say it out lout, because this makes me look like a piece of shit"
This scene could have been done much better.
>did pa kent just tell clark he should have fucking let those children die Jonathan fucking kent
Why people always think this? Jesus.
>>83896652
Actually it's one of the things Superman continues to struggle with and I think it adds more depth to not only his role in MoS but also BvS. Pa Kent told Superman that the sacrifice might have been necessary because people wouldn't be ready to know that there was a literal god walking among them. Pa Kent believed that if people knew who Clark was they would fear him and would find a reason to blame him for the horrors they face. In BvS we saw that happen. We saw a broken man blame Supes for not saving him from his fathers beatings. We saw a bitter man blame Supes for the destruction of what was left of what he considered his family. We saw an entire world almost turn against a man who is trying to do so much good simply because he didn't do good for them.
Pa Kent was right to teach Clark that he can't help everyone. Clark learnt on his own though that the burden of being a savior far outweighs the burden of not.
>>83897162
Because it was a poorly done scene? It's like yeah, Pa Kent has a point about people possibly being afraid of Clark and he was worried about Clark's safety, but saying "maybe" just makes it like he did give consideration that Clark should've let the kids drown.
>>83897208
>still pushing this boulder uphill
Anon there was a sticky that said live action /co/ material is fine. Go back to /v/ to tell people VN's aren't real games
>>83897108
They wanted a very human Jonathan Kent, a guy who didn't had all the answers, cared deeply for his son and that had faith in the future.
>but saying "maybe" just makes it like he did give consideration that Clark should've let the kids drown.
It means that he doesn't know. He doesn't have an answer. It's a moment of weakness in his character. He's showing that he's selfish. He'd rather protect his son above others, even knowing that is wrong, even knowing what his son did was right. Because HE'S SCARED!
>>83896994
i like that speech from zod about his purpose its rare to gain sympathy for a villain that effectively that fast.
i do wonder though why metropolis. zod is a general he should know better then to set up in the middle of the enemy
still thats the sort of plothole you find when your looking for plotholes sort of like the really bad animation errors in the new power puff girls make you notice all the minor ones as well
>>83897249
Zod wanted to hurt Superman.
>>83897108
at least is not the speech about drowning horses
>>83897225
>They wanted a very human Jonathan Kent
That's not human like how he acted.
>a guy who didn't had all the answers, cared deeply for his son
I know that but I can. This could have handled better.
>and that had faith in the future.
Like a future where Clark grows up witnessing the death of all the other passengers, which maybe would have scared him for life?
>>83897295
HERO CAKE
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C
A
K
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>>83897249
i know i should be bothered by the neck snap but honestly im not like others have said this clark is inexperienced he does not yet have the skill to have solved that problem any other way
im a little worried we will end up with a wonder women situation though where you snap one fucking neck in a situation where it was entirely the only choice and suddenly your the neck snapper for the next several years of comics.
>>83897225
>They wanted a very human Jonathan Kent, a guy who didn't had all the answers,
What they got was a very shitty Jonathan Kent who didn't have even a single answer and didn't give a single good advice to his son in his life or after.
>>83897394
ok i will concede the following points that were made in defense of this movie
>the maybe scene wasent that bad
it was still pretty bad but not as bad as i first thought it was a shitty direction to take the plot
>rewatching the ihop scene there is indeed no way he could have possibly changed course in time
however he could easily have done it for the gas station bit yeah hes inexperienced it was still stupid
still in general i would say this movie improved massively as it went on
i particularly liked the bit with the scientist pushing the key in
>I just wanted to help
>I know you did but we talked about this. Right? Right, we talked about this. You have... Clark, you have to keep this side of yourself a secret.
>What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?
>Maybe... there's more at stake here than just our lives, Clark, or the lives of those around us. When the world... when the world finds out what you can do, it's going to change everything. Our beliefs, our notions of... what it means to be human, everything. You saw how Pete's mom reacted, right? She was scared, Clark.
>Why?
>People are afraid of what they don't understand.
Pa's utterly terrified of how the world's going to react to his son, he'd sacrifice anything to protect him.
>>83897295
The thought that some sandbags around a house and probably a barn at the Kent farm displaced enough water to have any effect at all on a neighboring farm, let alone enough to drown horses, will never make sense.
The moral of the story should have been that his family could have headed over to help the Lang farm instead of sitting around with their cake, not that by sandbagging they became responsible for the flood itself.
>>83895257
"Maybe." Firstly I know you're lying because the Krypton scene was great. The point of Pa Kent saying "maybe" was that he cared so much for his son that he thinks it is plausible to allow a schoolbus full of children to die rather than let the government take away Clark. Personally, I think a simple "I don't know" would have made the scene a lot better.
>>83898229
the krypton stuff was cool but it had all sorts of pacing issues
and the plot they went with meant they couldent have a kal el flys off with krypton exploding in the background shot
but mostly the pacing
>>83898011
That scene in general didn't make any sense, the movie suddendly cuts to Clark in the top of some mountain standing next to a pile of rocks and his ghost dad is there talking stupid shit. Very jarring, which was a big problem with the film, the editing often didn't work at all.
From what I understand the extended edition has more to that mountain scene (Clark apparently also imagines Zod speaking to him), so I hope it will make it better.
>>83898229
> he cared so much for his son that he thinks it is plausible to allow a schoolbus full of children to die rather than let the government take away Clark
So, he'd rather turn Clark into a psychotic mess of a man who fears both his nature and every human in the planet, and probably would end living as a hermit or snap and go full Irredemeable on us.
Good thing Clark didn't give a shit about Pa Kent's shitty teachings and actually turned pretty alright.
>>83895257
>did pa kent just tell clark he should have fucking let those children die Jonathan fucking kent
No
>>83898362
>So, he'd rather turn Clark into a psychotic mess of a man who fears both his nature and every human in the planet, and probably would end living as a hermit or snap and go full Irredemeable on us.
No. Caution =/= fear.
>>83897185
This.
It's alarming how many people decide to "critique" this movie without understanding even the most basic themes.
>>83898362
>So, he'd rather turn Clark into a psychotic mess of a man who fears both his nature and every human in the planet
"Maybe."
:^)
But in all seriousness, he just wanted Clark to wait for the right time to reveal his powers to the world.
>>83895257
it felt more like he didnt know what to do, like, he wants clark to help people but he doesnt want him to be discovered
it felt like a really realistic reaction, he was super proud of him but didnt like how he put himself out like that, especially since he got seen
>>83898598
we understand the themes we are saying there shitty themes
>>83898362
>Good thing Clark didn't give a shit about Pa Kent's shitty teachings and actually turned pretty alright.
I mean isn't this one of the major problems of MoS? Nothing Pa Kent says actually has any effect on Clark's character. It doesn't inform what he becomes in any way, it just holds him down until he casts it away.
A Clark who takes Jonathan's words to heart would have grown into a very different Superman altogether. Instead they just sort of act like he has a point until movie pacing dictates that he needs to become Superman, at which point they forget all about it. Which basically describes A LOT of ideas and story threads in MoS and BvS, actually.
Most of the hate I see towards this movie seems to be from people who expect superman to know what he's doing, instead of it literally being his first day on the job and he's already dealing with a world breaker
like obviously theres a lot of destruction for the sake of destruction in the movie but damn clark really obviously has no idea what he's doing
>>83898618
>Nothing Pa Kent says actually has any effect on Clark's character
this
if your going to have him ignore his father you may as well have him grow up in an orphanage like action comics #1
>>83898618
Except you can see Pa's teachings poison Clark and keep him down at every moment.
From the "Humans can't be trusted" of MoS to BvS where he still can't accept his role as a hero culminating in the "No one stays good on this planet".
They all steam from the mistruts that Pa Kent imprinted on Clark. On the other hand we had Jor-El pushing Superman to be something more.
>>83898629
>Most of the hate I see towards this movie seems to be from people who expect superman to know what he's doing, instead of it literally being his first day on the job and he's already dealing with a world breaker
No. Fuck this bullshit. It doesn't take experience to see that people around are hurting and that you need to help them. Especially if your one and only character trait in the entire fucking movie is that you want to help and save people.
It doesn't take experience not to let a gas truck hit a building and then stand around looking important while the building collapses.
>>83898651
But it doesn't stick with anything Clark does. He doesn't take Jonathan's bullshit advice to heart, he doesn't internalize it and work to become a kind of person who reconciles his desire with his father's teaching in order to be a better man and a better hero.
It is only there to shackle Clark down like a psychological leg iron, not to facilitate character development
>>83898751
>It is only there to shackle Clark down like a psychological leg iron, not to facilitate character development
pretty much an excuse to extend the length of the movie
>>83898618
>>83898641
>>83898651
>>83898751
"You just have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be, Clark. Whoever that man is, he's going to change the world."
"One day you're gonna think of them as a blessing. And when that day comes, you're gonna have to make a choice: a choice of whether to stand proud in front of the human race, or not."
Jonathan wanted Clark to use his powers for good, but did not want to force it upon his son. Clark had to make that decision for himself.
Where's your proof? Remember, memes don't count.
Here is is a thing I don't like about these movies and how they deal with Superman.
Every time he isn't punching other superbeings, his superheroics are there to push the tiring "messiah of the people" angle Snyder forces so much, him descending from the heavens to help the weak people who see up to him in adoration. You never see him foiling a bank robbery, stopping to speak with a confused and suicidal teen, or you know, bring a cat down a tree. People either fear and hate Superman, or mindlessly worship him, only his mom and GF seem to think he simply is awesome and cool.
>>83898912
>Jonathan wanted Clark to use his powers for good, but did not want to force it upon his son.
That's good. Too bad that teaching involved the suggestion that the Clark's choice was illustrated by the "maybe" of letting kids (many of them from families the Kents knew, dammit) drown, and not do shit to protect himself.
>>83895257
Zack Snyder does not believe in altruism.
This is the man you put in charge of your Superman.
>>83898912
>Remember, memes don't count.
Then stop with the /tv/ meme of pretending Snyder is a genius and his movies are deep and thoughtful.
Also, it is Pa Kent giving Clark a stern talk because he just saved a busload of kids. There is no way to spin that into a positive thing, no matter how you try.
>>83898912
"My father believed that if the world found out who I really was, they'd reject me... out of fear. "
"I let my father die because I trusted him. Because he was convinced that I had to wait. That the world was not ready."
Straight form the Superhorse's fucking mouth.
AT BEST you could argue that Pa Kent is a neutral influence on Clark's life, and as such a complete waste of screen time in both of these movies. But he sure as shit isn't a positive influence on anything.
BTW "I let my father die because I trusted him" is still the biggest load of bullshit the DCEU so far. And that's saying something.
>>83898912
All this while having constant talks about how humans aren't ready and how they wouldn't be able to handle something like Clark existing.
And yet one hour later a giant ship arrives and almost destroys the planet and other than that society goes on like always
It's pretty clear that this Clark is a hero despite his family and not thanks to them.
Jor-El was a much better dad and a better influence for Superman than Pa Kent. And he was dead.
>>83898976
>>83899014
Remember what the government did to Superman in Flashpoint? That was what Pa Kent was trying to prevent. And considering the way the government is in the DCEU, I wouldn't put it past them.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rTtG5tEMm0c
>>83899029
>>83899042
Yeah exactly. The world wasn't ready. The problem is, I don't think it would ever be ready. Perhaps Superman would have started out slowly, doing small good deeds to get people to eventually accept him, but he was forced to emerge prematurely because of the alien invasion. The truth of the matter is that the world still wasn't ready, and that's shown in BvS.
>>83899124
>And considering the way the government is in the DCEU, I wouldn't put it past them.
its the first movie in the series they could make the goverment whatever the fuck they wanted to
>>83899184
Okay? They made them realistic jerks who Ma and Pa Kent feared. You really think they would have tried so hard to hide Clark's powers if the government were a benevolent organization? Has any government ever been a fully benevolent organization? Come on.
>>83899124
>Yeah exactly. The world wasn't ready. The problem is, I don't think it would ever be ready. Perhaps Superman would have started out slowly, doing small good deeds to get people to eventually accept him, but he was forced to emerge prematurely because of the alien invasion. The truth of the matter is that the world still wasn't ready, and that's shown in BvS.
That's not the point. Ready or not, Clark still becomes Superman without any input from Jonathan. Had he taken Jonathan's words to heart he would have either become someone like Gods and Monsters Superman, or would have actively worked to make them ready and smooth over the transition as much as possible. He does none of that. He mopes around until it's time to be Superman, and after that he forgets everything Pa Kent said.
>>83896603
>the government would rock up on your doorstep and take him away to do god knows what to him
That's retarded, the government can't just fucking kidnap your kid unless you live in a third world shithole run by a dictator.
>>83899414
>Clark still becomes Superman without any input from Jonathan
Jonathan is dead, lol. I'm sure he would have approved, though, because it was Clark's choice. He would have been proud. He DID take Pa Kent's words to heart: he chose "stand proud in front of the human race."
>>83896506
>He looked like he was going to puke as he said it.
When doesn't he look like he's going to puke?
>If Clark saves people, bad things might happen to you. Even if people die.
This is not paranoia. It's good parenting.
>Clark might go bad and this will cause people to die.
This IS paranoia and Batman is totally wrong for having it.
Consistency!
>The world wasn't ready!
The world will never be ready. Clark has to actively MAKE it ready by being a good example. If anything by letting Zod set the stage he insures the negative reaction more than if he'd done anything.
>>83898629
Assuming I agree with your interpretation of our argument (I do not) let me ask you this. Who's faullt is it? Who is it that's keeping Clark from flying, from exploring the limits of his strength and speed? Who's keeping Clark from being prepared in case something goes wrong?
>>83899124
>but he was forced to emerge prematurely because of the alien invasion.
Because he was hiding! He had an entire decade of adulthood before that when he was just walking around being a drifter!
>>83899221
It's really telling how people that defend these movies associate realism with being a jerk.
>>83899530
You are a dense motherfucker, you know that?
>>83899530
>He DID take Pa Kent's words to heart: he chose "stand proud in front of the human race."
>Looks five seconds away from breaking into tears any time he leaves the house
That's an odd manifestation of pride. Must be the kino version.
>>83895257
Oh look, another NOT MUH thread...
>>83899813
Oh look, another SNYDER DINDU NUFFIN post...
>>83900433
it seemed like this picture was working towards a point for a moment
>>83895945
I was watching the old superman serials and I realized something. That scene is a reference to the first live action time that superman used his powers. Then, I realized that this movie is trying so hard to fuck up superman.
>>83895257
sup autistic nerd who can't handle a little complexity in storytelling
>>83898229
>he cared so much for his son that he thinks it is plausible to allow a schoolbus full of children to die rather than let the government take away Clark
Fucking this. What kind of parent wouldn't put the lives of 30 other kids after their own? I like this take on Pa. Most other versions are almost militant about insisting that Clark put on a costume and save people. They seem to care more about what Clark can do than Clark himself.
