What went wrong?
>>83875590
stronk female protagonist that doesn't need any men.
>>83875590
Good characters in a 11 minutes per episode cartoon plot
Bad marketing.
>>83875590
The unforgivable sin of being boring.
>>83875590
>Changing hands one too many times
>Too many rewrites cobbled together
>Rewrites based on market research and focus testing
>Attempt to "be like Disney, but not"
>Deceptive marketing
>>83875590
could have been good if instead of bears it was dragons or the loch ness monster.
Beautiful world and story with a potentially good premise turned into a directionless mess through multiple scripts and writers with conflicting visions.
>>83875732
Adding:
>Waste of mythology and location
>Tried too hard to make STRONK WOMYN protagonist(s) instead of genuinely interesting character
>>83875755
A Smaug-like dragon would have been really cool. Burning its way into the minds of people for thousands of years until Merida finds a way to kill it.Anyone else think it was stupid that Merida didn't kill Mor'du?
>>83875590
Change of directors, I think.
As far as I know, original female director wanted Merida to leave home due to disliking the marriage thing, and then fucking off to have adventures and helping travelers/random people. Something happens at home or she realizes her mistake and she comes home.
The new director added the bear thing, I think.
>>83875590
first half hour of nothing, then bears, then another twenty minutes of nothing, then bears again, something happens in the end but I don't remember what
>>83875732
>>Rewrites based on market research and focus testing
I hate this
>>83875590
>>83875662
This. But the primary fault for me is a lack of tangible reason why Merida did not want to marry. Not to sound like an asshole, but as a princess, that's kind part of one's lot in life. Yeah, it's annoying to have to do that, but it's one of those things life throws at you, so you deal with it.
It would've been much more understandable if she was explicitly pursuing a military career. Mor'dru should've been a more prominent villain, as he would've presented an active threat against which Merida would feel passionate about protecting her people from. Thus, the conflict between Merida and Elinor would've had some actual weight to it, and the audience would've been more inclined to side with Merida(i.e "Bitch, the kingdom is about to get sacked by a horde of demonic bears, and your biggest concern is whoring out your daughter, who is trying to actually defend the realm? Fuck you!") instead of being annoyed with both of them.
>>83875841
>As far as I know, original female director wanted Merida to leave home due to disliking the marriage thing, and then fucking off to have adventures and helping travelers/random people. Something happens at home or she realizes her mistake and she comes home.
And this was scrapped because . . .? So many ideas wasted.
Merida is a shit character.
>She spends the entire movie bitching and moaning.
>Almost starts a four way war
>Refuses to take responsibility for anything
>Almost gets herself and everyone else killed multiple times
>Goes through no development. Learns nothing. Gets everything she wants and is the same person at the end of the movie that she was at the beginning.
>Doesn't do anything "brave". She moans and complains until someone bails her out. Drops to the ground and shits herself at the sight of main bad guy.
>Advertised as STRONK WOMYN but is really just an arrogant, petulant twit.
>Literally every bad thing that happens in this movie is DIRECTLY caused by her idiotic, selfish actions.
There's having a flawed character, and then there's having a mouthbreathing idiot bumbling her way through a story and needing others to keep her stupid ass from getting herself and others killed. She's basically a female Scottish Caillou, except twice as stupid.
>>83875929
>She's basically a female Scottish Caillou, except twice as stupid.
And doesn't suffer from some form of cancer.
>>83875966
So she has even LESS of an excuse.
>>83875886
I'm not really sure why she was dropped as the director. I'm also not sure why Chris Sanders got dropped from American Dog/Bolt, too.
I think Pixar just wanted something really sad sappy? I did read that the original director said that the mom and daughter thing in Brave was similar to the relationship she wanted to show in her original version (she got it from her experience with her daughter).
A shame the adventure thing didn't go through. If I'm correct, the bear and witch thing were added later when the original director left, and frankly those two elements made the movie terrible and Merida felt like she had to be written/changed because of those two elements.
>>83876044
>I'm also not sure why Chris Sanders got dropped from American Dog/Bolt, too.
Because American Dog looked like a clusterfuck and he refused to tone it down when asked.
>>83876044
It sucks because a mother/daughter relationship is one rarely explored by Disney and could have made for something really interesting and memorable.
>>83875695
Honestly, this. People were expecting Mulan 2.0 or something, I think, and were disappointed when Merida was a petulant brat in the first part. She got what was coming to her and apologized but for many people it wasn't enough, it seemed.
>>83875841
Considering that the original title, back when Brenda Chapman was directing, was "The Bear and the Bow", I am pretty sure you made that up.
>>83875929
>doesn't do anything "brave"
basically the whole movie was that traditional bravery (ie fighting Mor'du) just gets your leg fucking chomped off like Merida's dad. Going in axes swinging is "brave" but its shit and gets nothing done. Plus, for Merida, that shit was easy- she was climbing crazy cliffs and shit all day long like it was nothing. Its not brave if it comes easily.
What was brave for Merida was being open and honest with her emotions, for apologizing and admitting she screwed up, was doing something for someone else's sake for once.
What threads like this have shown me is that Brave's real failing is not spelling itself out enough because so many people don't seem to get it.
>>83875590
>>83875695
They literally spoiled the movie by featuring the mother and daughter riding their horses, watching the other boats from other lands leaving their home in a special mother's day trailer just before it got released. They could've at least used some footage from the beginning of the movie.
>>83875590
It wasn't what I expected, and what it was wasn't actually very good
>>83876044
>>83876096
I think they did a shit job with the Mother/Daughter relationship in this movie.
Any potential development between the two is squandered by making the mom an inarticulate bear, so there's no real discussion or interaction, Merida is basically arguing with a pantomiming cartoon character.
And even then the only character who changes is the mom, who basically learns to always give Merida what she wants.
>>83876044
I would pay a lot to see American Dog as originally envisioned but if you can't understand how Chris Sanders of all people might be making a film that veers a little too much into bizarre strange nonsensical territory, you probably need to get your head out of your ass.
One of the few times the 3DPG version was superior
>>83876230
What does her inclusion in OoAT do for her character, if anything at all?
>>83875882
That motivation made sense at least. It's not like marriage is a minor deal, it's something you're stuck with for the rest of your life, and it controls a lot of your life, especially if you're a woman back then. No one likes being forced into doing stuff they don't want to do because of circumstances outside of their control, and only mindless idiots go along with such edicts.
>>83876101
>Considering that the original title, back when Brenda Chapman was directing, was "The Bear and the Bow", I am pretty sure you made that up.
I might have made a mistake then. My memory is foggy, and I was doubting whether it was the bear thing or the witch, or ultimately something about the bear was changed. The new director did say they left the "bones" of the movie/plot, which is the mother and daughter dynamic, but removed a lot of magic.
>The basic structure of the film, what was happening with the dynamic between mother and daughter was the same and continued to be the same throughout. That’s what we call the bones. The bones of the film were totally fine. That was not the issue. What was hanging off the bones, there were problems. There were things that were not working. The focuses and balances that were out of whack.
> ‘Here’s the source material, it’s great source material, there’s nothing wrong with it, but this doesn’t work, this, this, this doesn’t work. Now what goes and what do I have? Well, this makes sense, and this makes sense, I need that whole Mor’du story, I need it to foreshadow what’s going to happen that’s underwriting the whole story, that she’s going to realize something but too late,’ and just kind of constructing the story that way.
So I guess, in a way, the new director added a lot of stuff on the bear thing.
>>83876267
Nothing too divergent in case they have a sequelHer dad dies in a war with King Arthur and she becomes Queen
>>83876184
>Chris Sanders of all people might be making a film that veers a little too much into bizarre strange nonsensical territory, you probably need to get your head out of your ass.
The way around that would be to work with him, not ruin his movie and piss him off so that he goes to your main competitor and makes them a movie 1000x better.
>>83876101
>What was brave for Merida was being open and honest with her emotions, for apologizing and admitting she screwed up, was doing something for someone else's sake for once.
This. The movie wasn't so great but this is what I liked in it. People often forget that there are other forms of bravery, and not just bravery when physically fighting something.
>>83875882
>But the primary fault for me is a lack of tangible reason why Merida did not want to marry.
You're pretty fucking stupid buddy.
>Not to sound like an asshole, but as a princess, that's kind part of one's lot in life.
I have no idea why you think that means every princess who ever lived would be fine with it.
>>83876400
>unruly shrew learns to submit and open her legs for her rightly chosen husband
That's another thing this movie fucked up. It tried to pander to the GRRL POWER movement but had a moral that was basically the opposite of that.
>>83876184
Hey now, I was genuinely curious why he was dropped from the project since I legit didn't know the reason. I wasn't wishing to see his version of the movie or anything.
>>83876400
I don't think people are mad at her for apologizing. I think they're mad for her getting off easy after all the things that she did throughout the course of the movie.
>>83875882
>>83875929
I'm inclined to agree. A princess who wants out of an arranged marriage (when that marriage isn't with a literal monster) strikes me as incredibly petty. Bitch, you already have an easier job than 99.999999% of people in your world, living in the lap of luxury, and that's not good enough for you? You want to dodge the one sole responsibility you have in the world? Fuck off.
>>83876465
I don't mind the whole girl power thing but only if it's done right. Merida caused a lot of trouble and stupid shit in the movie that I wouldn't want to consider most of what she did as girl power. Yeah she can shoot arrows, that's pretty cool, but that's undermined by how she almost poisoned her mother.
>>83876501
Yeah I ain't disagreeing with that. I really hated how she almost poisoned her mother. That whole witch thing was terrible.
>>83876503
This makes me realize some more how the writing in this movie is flimsy. They could have angled it better or given Merida a good reason to back out from the marriage, but they didn't.
I wouldn't even mind if she was still being petty, but they could have removed how she almost poisoned her mother and put a better satisfying conclusion.
>>83875590
Still loads better than Frozen. Though the artwork on her could definitely use some work.I don't like her the occasional round fish-face the model gets sometimes.
>>83875841
>>83875886
There was always going to be Brother Bear shit. The original title was even The Bear and the Bow. What the new director added was all the stuff with Mordu.
>>83877946
Yeah I forgot what he specifically added, and all I remember was something about the bear. >>83876340
>>83875590
Despite the flaws listed here:
>>83875732
>>83875776
The movie as okay. I think the reason why it wasn't a hit like Frozen is Merida wasn't a girly girl, no love interest, and the story was unappealing to children mainly girls.
