Hear me out. I think Wally should get his own, unique superhero name ala Nightwing. I understand that becoming The Flash was a big part of Wally's history and character development, but that stuff only worked when Barry was dead.
Barry's back now and he's back for good. For better or worse he's the name that's going to be forever entrenched as "The Flash" thanks to the show, the upcoming movies, and all the future Flash comics being centered on him -- after all, if you really are The Flash then The Flash comic is going to focus on you.
Wally calling himself The Flash just forces him to live in Barry's shadow so long as Barry's around. He'll always be the other Flash, the extra Flash, not THE Flash because whatever The Flash is about, it isn't going to be about Wally. It's like if someone else calls themselves Batman or Superman -- we've seen it done before and it'll never stick so long as the world continues to think Bruce Wayne = Batman and Clark Kent = Superman. The Flash is Barry Allen. It's not Wally West anymore and it's never going to be again. Like Jean-Paul Valley or Jim Gordon Bats, everyone knows they're not really Batman. And everyone knows Wally isn't really THE Flash. Calling himself The Flash is just hanging on to the outdated past instead of moving forward and adapting with the times.
I think it'd do him a world of good to get his own name. Like Nightwing he could even actually star in his own solo with that new name (should the fan support be there). It's not like you can make a second The Flash title for Wally to headline, after all. People would just think it's another Barry Allen book.
Thoughts? Name suggestions?
Youre right they should call him FAST-MAN
>>83847415
I'm sure there's plenty of clever speed related names creative types can come up with. It's not really a matter of what the name is so much as he needs something to distinguish himself.
I mean even Bart's got Impulse, which works as an adult or a kid if you want it to. Wally's stuck with a name he's outgrown (Kid Flash) and a name that's already taken.
Why should he have to get his own name? That's really just fucking retarded, it's like bringing back Jay but not letting him be the Flash.
>>83847390
>but that stuff only worked when Barry was dead
For one you're wrong. And for two calling him anything other than The Flash would be futile anyway because the exact same people who wanted Wally back in the first place are the people who would buy his solo and are also the same people who would refuse to call him anything other than The Flash, especially when he is quite obviously "the fastest man alive" given that he's already showing Barry speedforce tricks.
>>83847522
Jay gets the differentiation of being in another universe half the time. He's The Flash there. He's also not portrayed as important as Barry or Wally, so confusing the two isn't such an issue.
Wally's just pretending to be like Barry while Barry's still around. The main point of Wally becoming The Flash was because Barry was dead and he wanted to carry on the job.
But that's gone now and he should try to be his own hero, not keep pretending to be Barry. Why shouldn't he get his own name? What's the point of keeping Barry's name when he can and should strike out on his own? With a unique name he could have his own book and start a new legacy.
Look, if Wally were still headlining The Flash comic and being The Flash in the Justice League like Barry was I'd agree. He'd be the central Flash figure. But he's not. He's down a rung and less important and he always will be, sad to say. It's already going to be hard enough for him to get much visibility, especially with new fans. Just reusing a name makes it worse.
The problem with Wally as he is now is you can't even really refer to him by his superhero name. You can't tell someone "The Flash" did something in a book with Wally or they'll just assume you're talking about Barry Allen. That's a real problem.
>>83847621
Yeah, why shouldn't DC just shit all over all of Wally's fans for literally no reason? That's such a good idea.
You can have more than one character with the same superhero name.
>>83847575
The Fastest Man Alive thing doesn't raelly matter. Half the time The flash isn't even the fastest person in his own book (what with all the evil, more powerful speedsters). It's just a catchy title full of air.
And you're right, the diehard Wally fans would buy his book no matter what. But that's WHY you should change his name. Diehard fans will buy it for the character, not the name, even if it'd bother them he's not called The Flash anymore. New fans would pick it up thinking they're reading Barry Allen and be disappointed. If you give him a new name then there's none of this stupid ambiguity forced by misplaced nostalgia.
Wally WAS The Flash. It was a very important part of his life. It's something he should be able to remember and talk about. But he was only The Flash when Barry wasn't around because Barry is the real Flash (nowadays). That's how the world will see it. It can only help him to get a new name and branch out on his own merits instead of living off of Barry's relevance.
>>83847633
Wally's fans wouldn't get shit on just because his name isn't The Flash. That's stupid. Nightwing's fans weren't shit on when he stopped being Batman because Bruce came back. They fondly remember those well written stories. It'd be the same with Wally. Everyone would still remember when he was The Flash then acknowledge why he became his own hero.
>>83847673
Dick wasn't Batman for over 20 years.
>>83847654
Yeah but it makes the less relevant, less important characters derivative. It only kind of sort of works in GL (and even then normal fans get thrown for a loop with all the Hal/John/Guy/Kyle crap at first) because they're a space police force and everyone refers to them by their names, anyhow.
Wally WAS derivative of Barry but it worked because Barry was dead. Now that they're both alive they should differentiate and Barry should obviously keep The Flash name.
>>83847704
>Barry should obviously keep The Flash name.
Or Barry could just go back to being dead like he should be.
>>83847657
>>83847704
They were both The Flash for a time when Barry came back anyway, I don't see what the issue is.
>>83847687
Does the timescale really matter? It's about the situation they're in. It'd be stupid if Dick stayed Batman after Bruce came back no matter how long Bruce was dead.
It seems more natural for Dick to go back to Nightwing because he was already Nightwing before but the same logic applies. The only reason Wally isn't going back to Kid Flash is because it has Kid in the name, which is diminutive. He should get his own name with Barry back.
>>83847738
>Does the timescale really matter?
It really does, Wally was The Flash for almost as long as Barry and was the Flash for the vast majority of readers today.
how about White Kid Flash
>>83847721
Come on, man. That's not the world we live in. If Barry was dead I'd agree Wally should fully step into The Flash mantle again. But that's not happening. Barry's too important. He's a core JL member and is the best character to adapt to bigger and broader media.
Wally's just not fit to be The Flash that the DC universe wants to promote if they ever want that title to grow.
>>83847734
Wally barely existed after Barry came back exactly for the reasons I'm talking about. He brings in too much confusion and messes with their ability to promote Barry.
If he just had his own dang name they might not have had to delete him in the first place.
>>83847774
>and is the best character to adapt to bigger and broader media.
Barry is one of the dullest DC characters around, the only thing even remotely interesting about him is his powers. Or are you forgetting that they've had to desperately snag Wally's shit and slap it onto Barry to get people to start caring about him?
I like the idea of Batman's sidekicks all striving for their own identities because they're vigilantes trained to work independently
And I like the idea of they Flashes all being comfortable calling each other Flash because they're cops and it's just another rank and beat that they run
What about speedy?
Oh right that's taken by a nobody who isn't even fast
>>83847768
10 less years but that's not the point. If someone started reading Batman when Dick was Batman it doesn't make it sacrosanct or terrible to revert back to the status quo because of those fans.
The gap's widening as time goes on since they brought Barry back, anyhow. Invest in new fans and differentiate. Old fans can still read about and like Wally if his name's not The Flash. They'd be annoyed for a little bit but it doesn't ruin the character.
>>83847390
>It's not like you can make a second The Flash title for Wally to headline, after all. People would just think it's another Barry Allen book.
And yet there are THREE Spider-Man comics with different leads.
>>83847390
Then Barry should have called himself the Streak since Jay is the Flash.
>>83847807
I mean the Batman'd him to make him more interesting but it's more about how you can just jump right into Barry's history and stories without having to also learn about some other hero who died that the current guy replaced and bluh.
Wally's great but his story is not meant to be a standalone one that you can swap into other media. Spicing up Barry's character or personality is fine. It's not like Wally's still the same boring "GOLLY GEE" sidekick he was in the silver age, right? Characters change and grow.
This "Barry is boring" jank is stupid because he's only as boring as a writer makes him. Wally was boring when Burnett, Baron and Cavalieri wrote him, too.
Speedy
>>83847852
Spider-man is much bigger and much more important than The Flash. There's also only one "Spider-man" book. Everything else is stuff like "here's weird future Spider-man." Wally's not distant enough from Barry to pull that stuff out. He's in the same universe at the same time as Barry. They're going to interact (presumably) in the future. It'd be nice if they could call each other something different when that happens.
>>83847390
I liked the pre-New 52 status quo where Bruce and Dick were Batman at the same time. Surely they can do it again with the Flash.
>>83847873
It's not about who was first. None of my argument has to do with that. It's about who's best to carry the title to grow it and who's more entrenched in the role. Wally's derivative of Barry in a way that Barry isn't to Jay, even if Barry got his start soaking up some of Jay's earned public visibility.
I think the issue here is that you don't understand how the Flash mantle works and you don't understand why there are heroes who move on to their "own" title. The Flash isn't a transition title you grow out of and Wally wasn't a character playing dress-up for a short period of time. It doesn't make any sense for him to not be the Flash any more than it wouldn't make sense for Barry to have chosen a different name when he got back just because Jay and Wally were already Flashes.
>>83847837
>10 less years
It was closer before they benched Wally after Rebirth. Like 30 vs 25. That's probably why they did it if we're being honest.
>>83847931
They stopped doing that pretty quickly for obvious reasons. For anything short of a temporary arc it's too confusing to have two Batmans at the same time in the same universe who interact with each other.
When you have a way to simplify and differentiate characters in a way that's good for new readers and palatable for hardcore readers then that's what you should go for. That's what I'm arguing for, here.
>>83847962
>it's too confusing
Stop this shit, you fucking retard.
>>83847962
You can just not read the books if you don't like it. Other people aren't confused and will gladly take a Flash in JL, Earth-2, and Titans (and probably JSA when that comes back).
>>83847390
I agree with you op, but I'd Skai be okay with the book being merely
"Wally West: Flash"
Or something like that
>>83847961
I understand The Flash legacy but when Wally came back Bart went back to being Kid Flash for a reason.
Jay's always been a special case. Jay works as an elderly mentor to other Flashes as an example. But Wally and Barry have been worked into the same age group. They're in each other's spot only Barry gets to be in bigger titles because he's a bigger deal.
The Flash mantle only really "passed down" when other Flashes died/disappeared.
Wally was Flash from 1987-2007, then again for a year in 2009. Barry comes back in 2010 and Wally basically stopped being The Flash at that point for all intents and purposes, but if you want to stretch it to the New 52 that's 22 years for 87-07 and 09-11.
Barry was 1956-1985, 29 years (already more) and then 2010-2016. 35 to 22 if keeping tally is what you care about.
I don't. Time isn't a big deal to me, atleast no on scales this small. It's about what you can do with the characters. Barry's the best fit for The Flash for what DC hopes to do with the character. He's streamlined and more adaptable. Wally can have his longer, richer history in his own corner of the universe and it'd work better if you could more easily distinguish between the two, especially for newer fans.
Let's just call him Sonic.
>>83847962
But in this case new readers don't need to dive into 25 years of comics history to figure out what's going on with Wally because his new story hook was in Rebirth and he's really only appearing in the Titans book for right now. It's not like he has his own book called Flash: Fastest Man Alive to compete with Barry's book. No one is calling him The Flash anyways. Everyone just refers to him as Wally.
99% of the time when you're talking about a character that has the same name as another character that is still relevant, you just use their name anyway. In almost any book where Wally and Barry are together, every assembled will know they are Wally and Barry, and just call them that when they need to be addressed specifically.
>>83848016
It's not TOO confusing. It'll obviously float along no matter what they name him. But imagine a new fan wants to read a book with The Flash in it, picks up anything with Wally and goes "Ugh, this isn't Barry." It's basically false advertising. If all you're going to keep is the hardcore fans then the hardcore fans would stick to the character no matter what you named him. Might as well get the added benefit of new readers being able to tell the difference between the two more easily.
Like, seriously, what does Wally lose as a character if he's not called The Flash? It's not like he gets to be the main character in The Flash title anymore. Or be in the Justice League. He's already on the B-team and he doesn't have his own book. He's The Flash in name only at this point while everyone knows Barry's the real Flash.
It's patronizing and stupid. It's hanging on to a reality (87-2007) that no longer exists and that climate will never exist again because Barry's here to stay. It's a dead end name for the character with no room to grow.
>>83847908
>Spider-man is much bigger and much more important than The Flash
So surely that should be a reason why there would be more confusion
>There's also only one "Spider-man" book.
So? There's still 2 spider men in the same place at the same time and not in the "weird future"
Wally's new name should be...
Man-Alive
so that he could be The Fastest Man-Alive
>>83848078
That's just it. I think Wally's a good enough character to deserve his own spinoff. But it's not going to work if he keeps pretending to be Barry when the real deal is already around. Why spend 2.99 on some other weird Flash when the real Flash is over there in the book called, you know, The FLASH?
Atleast with a new name it'd be like Nightwing where folks can pick it up knowing and expecting something different from the character they spun off from but with similar themes.
>>83848118
>Like, seriously, what does Wally lose as a character if he's not called The Flash?
25 years of his life
>>83848134
This is a temporary thing. There's a reason people hated all the clone shit with Spider-man.
It'd be like pointing me towards the Bruce/Dick dual batman thing and going "LOOK, THEY'RE DOING IT HERE" Yes, on a temporary basis. There's no question that Pete's the only real Spider-man and anyone else calling themself Spider-man either needs to be in a different reality or they're a temporary addition who will either disappear or change their name in due time.
>>83848134
I'd also like to mention that it's actually MILES that gets the book just called "Spider-Man"
Peter is in the amazing. People seem to be able to keep up with that just fine.
>>83848165
He doesn't lose his history if he changes his superhero name you dingus. He was only The Flash for those years because Barry was dead! That's the whole point. Without Barry being dead he doesn't need to carry on The Flash name.
But I guess we should bring Bart back as The Flash because who cares how many Flashes we have, right? Jesus.
>>83848152
>pretending to be Barry when the real deal is already around
>the real Flash
Maybe you should fuck off along with your Barry boner.
>>83848215
I like Wally more but that's what the situation is. Barry will forever be pushed as THE Flash. Everyone else is his supporting character at this point. Until I see Wally headlining The Flash book as the long term main character then he's not really The Flash.
>>83848204
He does though, that's his identity, that was who he was for over half his life. Taking that away from him is literally like taking away his actual name and calling him Steve West.
>>83848052
You don't seem to understand it at all though. Bart didn't go back to being Kid Flash. He was killed off because his run was an immediate financial failure and no one saw that as him actually earning the mantle. Johns had plans to use Wally as a major character as the Flash in his Barry run. He was only benched because DC had decided on turning Flashpoint into a reboot and they were easing people into the idea of him not being around. And you're rounding down Wally's years for some reason and adding in Barry's time post-benching even though I gave context for the data I was using.
No one is saying Barry can't be in the main Flash book if he wants but nothing you have said shows understanding of the situation the franchise has been in nor what fans actually want. Wally getting any other name is an abject downgrade that shits on the legacy of his run. For some reason you want to repeat the nonsense of Alan Scott being called Sentinel because calling him Green Lantern while Kyle's run was going was considered "too confusing". You just don't get it at all.
>>83847390
I feel like it's the whole Clint Barton, Kate Bishop Hawkeye deal where they both equally deserve the name Flash
>>83848257
No it's not. He took up the mantle to honor Barry, not because "I'm just as much The Flash as Barry ever was!" it's to his credit he lived up to the name, but that's all he was ever doing -- trying to live up to Barry while Barry was gone.
The key words there are "while Barry was gone." If Barry was never gone then he's never The Flash. If Barry isn't gone then he doesn't need to keep the name and mantle alive.
Barry doesn't lose his character development, history, or memories because he changes his name so he and Barry aren't stepping on each others toes.
>>83848303
>but that's all he was ever doing
He had almost 200 issues after he got past that. You don't seem to understand Wally's character at all if you think that was the entirety of his existence as the Flash.
>>83848287
Johns was the only one with that opinion. They sidelined Wally years before Flashpoint. BECAUSE he wasn't Barry but he was still "The Flash" and it was a mess they didn't want to deal with. The simplest solution was get rid of Wally and push Barry as The Flash.
Something that would've never happened if Wally just had his OWN title.
Sorry to spoil the party but Wally is already in abject downgrade territory. He's no longer a Justice League member -- instead he's on DC's B/C team that can't even consistently hold down a single book. He no longer headlines the core, big Flash title. Barry being around automatically abjectly downgrades him. He's now just that other Flash that isn't as important instead of his own hero.
Wally's picking up scraps trying to pretend to be as important as Barry. He's not and anything else is a delusion borne of us liking Wally more. It doesn't really matter if he's a better character. Better characters have never meant being more marketable or a better fit as a headliner, sadly.
>>83848344
He got past being inferior to Barry Allen in The Return of Barry Allen. I'm not saying Wally is an inferior character or hero, he's just an inferior choice to push as the main Flash with Barry around and that's how DC treats him.
He was ALWAYS living up to Barry's name. Especially in Johns run where Johns would constantly pull shit like having other people say "You'd make your uncle proud." It's all about how he stacks up to Barry because he's wearing Barry's costume and using Barry's name.
I say move on from that.
>>83848303
>but that's all he was ever doing -- trying to live up to Barry while Barry was gone.
You obviously don't understand Wally's character at all.
>If Barry was never gone then he's never The Flash.
That's completely irrelevant, he was the flash and Barry was gone.
>If Barry isn't gone then he doesn't need to keep the name and mantle alive.
Again that's not what he's about, Wally is his own man with his own legacy as The Flash, he wasn't keeping the name and mantle alive he was being The Flash, he was being who he was.
>>83848417
You're literally the only person who wants him to change his name and you haven't even suggested a viable name.
If you don't want him to have the same name as an existing character then throw shit like Impulse out of the fucking window and come up with a new name. Do it.
>>83848443
He's clearly not his own man. Otherwise he wouldn't be using another man's name. Barry also isn't his own man, he was inspired by Jay.
I think you're the one missing the point. You can go fucking read the many times where Wally talks about keeping The Flash name alive, taking up the mantle so people wouldn't forget Barry, blah blah blah. You sound like the one who hasn't read those books. It was ALWAYS about Barry for Wally. He restricted himself because he didn't want to replace Barry in peoples' minds but the reason he took up the mantle was to carry on Barry's name and good work.
With Barry back...Barry can carry on his own name and good work. Wally doesn't have that burden or responsibility and can, instead of trying to be The Flash, can be his own hero.
>>83848417
>"You'd make your uncle proud."
That's not living up to Barry's name, that's letting him know that his uncle, his mentor, his idol, his friend would be proud of his accomplishments and the man he's become.
>>83848386
They did not sideline him years before Flashpoint. It started in 2010 and that was when they were in the process of shitcanning all of the Johns setup in general.
And it's clear that you and me just have different ideas of what a downgrade actually means. You seem to think nonsense like having his own ongoing and being on the "big" team book is all that matters when I'm talking about the character's motivations and what his identity means to him. It's insane.
It's not even confusing when it takes a mere "there's more than one Flash" response and then moving on to write whatever you want. DC learned that people can handle more than one GL and they're coming around to the idea that people can handle more than one Flash too (and I believe that's the internal belief considering Abnett said the same thing).
>>83848449
I mean, I'm not particularly clever or creative when it comes to names. I assume there would be some brainstorming or creative process that'd pitch a lot of names until one sticks.
This is about why he should change his name, not what he should change his name to. Anything good will work, so long as it's Wally branching out on his own instead of walking in Barry's shadow.
>>83848508
You are the only one who sees him using the Flash name as walking in Barry's shadow and you haven't said anything that could convince people otherwise. And you don't seem to comprehend why your arguments fail to resonate with literally everyone else.
>>83848506
...Are you forgetting when they tried to get rid of him in Infinite Crisis? Then brought him back as a failed band-aid to the Bart run where he existed as a shitty fill in character while they were setting up Barry's return?
Because the Lightning Saga was originally supposed to be Barry coming back but they kicked it down the line. Waid got pissed when they undercut his return to Wally because they had bigger future plans. Wally was fucked in 2007, not in 2010. 2010 was just the nail in the coffin and Flashpoint was throwing the dirt on it.
>>83847738
he was ya dingus did you not read batman incorporated
>>83848534
It's 4chan dude. Of course I'm not going to change the mind of anyone who wants to argue with me. But I can put the idea out there that Wally should be his own man with his own name.
>>83848551
Yes, where Dick...eventually stops being Batman after they coexist for a little bit.
I'm saying this is something that should eventually happen to Wally, just like going back to Nightwing eventually happened to Dick.
>>83848546
I didn't forget but you clearly stated
>They sidelined Wally years before Flashpoint. BECAUSE he wasn't Barry but he was still "The Flash" and it was a mess they didn't want to deal with.
Which suggests you are not talking about the Infinite Crisis benching at all in that post so why would I respond with that context?
Now it seems like you're trying to ignore the greater point of my post which is that readers CAN handle multiple Flashes and you don't seem to understand why people arguing for Wally being the Flash feel like any other name would be shitting on his character.
>>83847390
Is he not getting his own name? I haven't seen anyone call him anything but Wally since he put the new costume on. I figured the name was going to be a surprise reveal.
>>83847390
No, they can both use the name.
>>83848669
I was talking about directly in regards to Barry but Wally was getting fucked before that. They got rid of him the first time around because...they wanted someone else to be Flash, that time it was Bart.
It's not really about handling multiple Flashes. They could handle Jay Garrick being around because Jay Garrick has a different role in the character dynamics. Barry and Wally's relationship ages Barry in a way DC isn't comfortable with, so now they're very weirdly in the same age group. Like, current Barry's only, what, 5-7 years older than current Wally?
It creates this weird situation where they're both doing the same thing as the same named character. With Jay Garrick it was "Well that's old grandad Flash who gives tough but loving advice." With Wally and Barry they're both young, optimistic adult males. There's differences in their characters but not in their ROLES.
That's why we've literally never had Wally or Barry OR Bart as the Flash at the same time as each other in any substantive way. When Bart was the Flash he was the only young adult male Flash (because they got rid of Wally). When Wally was The Flash he was the only young adult male Flash. When Barry came back...Wally technically existed, but instead of just getting rid of him like they did with Bart's run they just ignored him and shoved him off to the side for a couple years before deleting him.
You're telling me fans deal with something they've literally never had to deal with before, explicitly because DC didn't want stupid redundancy that undermines one of their biggest stars.
>>83848709
Abnett says he's going to be The Flash but so far he's talked to a total of 6 people, all of which knew him by name anyhow. I mean he's only been in two comics since coming back so it's not something they've had to touch on.
>>83848709
Probably has to do with preFP vs new 52 memories. Basically in-universe people don't know about what they consider to be a name change besides Barry so if they were to call him anything it would be "Kid Flash" but doing so would confuse readers so going with Wally for the immediate (re-)introductions and then Flash afterward is probably the plan.
Wally West: SUPER-FLASH
Sounds fucking dope to me tbqh
>>83847390
They should both be Flash.
>get his own name
>Like Nightwing
Except there are already 2 Nightwings and nobody gets confused because they know the difference.
Jay, Barry and Wally are all equals and it's in their character to be fine using the same name.
>>83848874
Actually, when Barry came back Wally called himself the Nightwing to Barry's Batman.
Barry stopped him with this >>83848287 because he's a generous dude but Wally's right. Wally is the less important derivative of Barry just as Nightwing is the spin off of Batman.
You can always tell who's the most important by who gets their own book and who's in the Justice League. Wally's been demoted since Flash Rebirth.
>>83848996
Wally is extremely important. There was a point he was better at being the Flash than Barry.
He was the Flash for an entire generation. He was the Flash in the DCAU. They literally took traits of his and gave them to Barry because Wally was so well liked.
And Rebirth is all about legacy, not having the best legacy character around sharing the name would be a crime.
>You can always tell who's the most important by who gets their own book and who's in the Justice League. Wally's been demoted since Flash Rebirth.
Wally was in the Justice League for a long time and he hasn't had a book because he was gone for 5 and a half years.
>>83848996
>You can always tell who's the most important by who gets their own book and who's in the Justice League
What a bunch of shit, are you honestly telling me Baz and Jessica are the most important Green Lanterns?
>>83848794
DC fans have dealt with it before in general, but the only reason Flash fans haven't isn't because it's undermining to Barry. It's literally only because Johns didn't get to write his run. It was going to happen but then DC corporate after the Levitz to Nelson change pushed for the reboot. Wally was not the only aspect dropped then. All of the Zoom stuff was shitcanned as well. Jenni disappeared from LoSH books at the time even though they didn't get rebooted.
And even if you believe it was purely because DC was uncomfortable and would have pushed for no Wally even if Flashpoint hadn't happened, this is clearly not the case anymore because they're allowing it now. You are literally the ONLY person who thinks Wally shouldn't be the Flash right now. Wally fans think it's fine, Barry fans think it's fine, DC thinks it's fine, the creators seem to think it's fine. And honestly more than just fine, people are fucking happy about it. This is what people want. There are literally no problems besides the ones you're making up in your own head.
I'm okay with Wally and Barry sharing the same name.
It helps that they don't have nearly identical costumes anymore
>>83849131
Yeah but we have three other instances of it happening. Barry -> Wally then Wally -> Bart and back to Bart -> Wally. This isn't something that ONLY happened with Flash Rebirth not getting its appropriate followup. Everytime there's a new or returning main Flash the previous one leaves first. Only Rebirth didn't have that happen and they consciously got rid of him anyhow.
It's not like they had to kill Wally off/delete him in Flashpoint. That was a made decision. Fuck they kept Bart around (I doubt they planned far enough ahead for "Bar Tor") when the reboot happened because...he wasn't The Flash. He was Kid Flash, which they were fine with having around.
Some other folks in this thread have agreed with me and, obviously, 4chan is where I'm going to get the most dissenting opinions. I imagine if I went to forums with higher amounts of Barry fans they'd probably agree (and not for good reasons, mostly because they only like Barry), that wouldn't make me right just because a specific audience agrees.
There's clearly something to my point, atleast in the eyes of DC, because their behavior is WHY I think it'd be best for Wally to be his own hero.
People are happy that Wally's back but the luster is gonna fade eventually and we're going to be stuck with two "Flashes" calling themselves THE Flash and it's not going to work well. Wally's just going to be the demoted B-teamer who's pretending to be as important as Barry.
>>83849110
...Hal has his own book and is the main GL in Justice League most of the time.
Yes there's minor variances here and there but I'm talking on a long term basis. Fuck when they added Jessice to the league they IMMEDIATELY brought back Hal to keep him as the core JL green lantern who's training the newbie.
>>83849108
Yes, there are all great things. But none of them actually affect his situation now where he's playing runner up to Barry. I'm saying he should start his own line rather than stand in Barry's.
Wally would still be a legacy character if his name wasn't The Flash. I don't get what your point is. Bart wasn't not a legacy character because he was Impulse and not Kid Flash ya doof. Nightwing's still a legacy character. Having a different name doesn't remove legacy.
And yes, when Barry was dead Wally was in the JL and was the main Flash. There's no arguing Wally was the main Flash from 87-2005. The literal moment Barry came back they kicked Wally off the JL, demoting him back to the Titans, and put Barry into the JL. Stop being dense. If Wally was "as good" as Barry or "as important" then he'd be headlining in multiple double shipping books like Barry is. DC explicitly named the double ship books as their core books they're focusing on and...Wally's at best going to be a cameo in Flash.
Wally isn't as important as Barry to DC's brand and it's not even close to being close. He got his big moment of return and that was great but it's not like it spun out into him being a big focus of things going forward. He's in a team book and might show up in another as, what, a tertiary supporting character? Wow, so important. Just as good as Barry!
>>83849242
Well now you're just repeating yourself with the "it hasn't happened with Flash before so it should never happen" rhetoric so I think I'll stop replying after this. I guess the main difference between us is that you say it's different from Jay but it's literally the same to me. I can't see Wally on a team with his friends on the Titans as a demotion. It's functionally the same as Jay being the JSA's Flash during Wally's run to me. But I'm also not a person who pushes for solo ongoings or being on the "main" team just to feel special while your arguments center around that.
I wanted Wally back as the Flash with his experiences and I got that. Stay butthurt I guess since DC is on my side for the time being and there is no outcry for him to not be the Flash so it won't change any time soon.
The problem is that Wally doesn't really have any other names to fall back on.
>Flash
In the general public mind, that's Barry 100% now.
>Kid Flash
Black Wally's name now. Plus Wally isn't a kid anymore.
>Impulse
Always been Bart's thing. If Bart came back for whatever reason, that's the name they'd probably give him.
And other decent speed-related names (Inertia, Zoom, etc.) are taken already, usually by villains.
>>83849436
Jay can exist alongside Barry or Wally because he'd be old as heck and a representation of a bygone time.
You can't do that with adult Wally and adult Barry. Same as you couldn't do it with Bart and Wally. Barry is supposed to be Wally's dad, not his slightly older brother. If they were in the same book, both being called The Flash, both just as powerful as each other then there'd be this confusion as who THE Flash is and who the book is about.
Jay was always weaker, older, and served as a grandpa/mentor role. There's no major overlap. Wally and Barry are so similar that a different name would help to differentiate them and Barry's obviously the one who would keep The Flash name in that scenario because of Wally being his derivative and shit like the show and movies.
This isn't butthurt. I like Wally WAY more than Barry. I'd rather Barry have never come back. I'm just trying to do some forward thinking about what would be best for Wally given this situation. It's obviously possible to have them both in the universe as similarly aged Flashes, but it just means Wally's never going to get his own spotlight. He'll stay cooped up in Titans and maybe showing up as a cameo here and there instead of possibly being a major character in the future who stands uniquely apart from Barry instead of just emulating him.
I think it'd be best for the character so long as Barry's still around. I think the best thing for the character would be if Barry was still dead.
>>83849527
I feel like there's enough words synonymous with speed that some creative person could come up with a good name.
>>83849333
No shit he isn't headlining books because he wasn't here for 5 and a half years. They're obviously planning something with him with his knowledge of what's going on in rebirth
>He got his big moment of return and that was great but it's not like it spun out into him being a big focus of things going forward.
He's been back for like 3 weeks, holy shit. You have no idea what they have planned and this is 100% speculation.
I have a feeling you just don't like Wally. Which is fine, but denying his importance to DC is stupid. He's a Flash, he was THE Flash for the longest time. The sharing is fine.
>>83849527
If inertia is considered a good name then just go look up some dang synonyms. Momentum. Blam, done.
My problem is how quickly Wally was just tossed aside once Barry came back. For a lot of people, Wally is THE Flash and managed to, over the course of a couple of years, grow into the role and make it his own without becoming a carbon copy of Barry. Barry worked best as an ideal to live up to and a role model for other speedsters, but Wally worked best as the in-the-flesh Flash, who started creating his own legacy as a man to inspire others. Once Barry returned, all of that was thrown out the window and it was as if Wally never existed, which he didn't for a few years.
>>83849582
one that's not already taken and also doesn't sound dumb or doesn't fit the character is actually rather difficult
>>83849616
We've got solicitations for awhile. Wally's only confirmed for Titans and maybe in The Flash as Black Wally's new mentor. That's not a good look. That's as major as...Arsenal or Donna Troy, really, any of the other downgrade sidekicks who aren't Dick Grayson.
Fuck it's lower on the totem pole than black Wally considering he'll be a bigger supporting character in The Flash and also be in his own Teen Titans book.
Wally will probably play some part in the next big event follow up but that doesn't mean a lot.
I just don't want a repeat of what happened last time and Wally not stepping on Barry's toes is the best way to branch him out on his own.
If I didn't like Wally I wouldn't be able to basically recite every single Wally arc from memory. I've read every single Flash volume 2 story, long before Barry came back to life. This isn't a matter of favoritism. Wally's easily my favorite.
This is me coming to terms with Barry being The Flash for the longhaul and that leaving no room for growth or spotlight for Wally in the future. DC is never going to push another Flash over Barry so ANYTHING you would think to give Wally will always be second to Barry. I don't want or like that. Atleast with his own title there's a chance for him to outgrow The Flash in the comics and take off instead of forever being labeled as a Barry derivative.
Wally's got the unique situation of being potentially still more popular than his predecessor (not even Dick has that). Strike while the iron's hot and build up a big new IP that Wally can launch with instead of just piddling around as the second rate Flash in DC's eyes.
>>83849661
Blitz, Momentum, Swift, Pace, Velocity, Celerity, The Rush blah blah. I'm just spitballing synonyms man, imagine an actual creative type even putting in a little effort.
>>83849758
You just said Wally isn't as good or as important as Barry and couldn't headline a book here
>>83849333
Not exactly something you'd say about your "favorite"
Again there's nothing wrong with sharing the name. You're just speculating at this point. You have no idea what's going to happen further down the line and you have no what his importance is to the Flash or Titans book.
>second rate Flash in DC's eyes
He's obviously not or they wouldn't have bothered bringing him back, or have had him so integrated in Rebirth.
>>83849758
>Atleast with his own title there's a chance for him to outgrow The Flash in the comics and take off instead of forever being labeled as a Barry derivative.
You're kidding yourself if you think a name change would prevent this instead of making it worse.
>>83850058
I'm talking about his current position in the comics and how DC will treat him. We've got solicits, we know what books he's in. He's in the b/c team book and maybe Flash as a side character. I want him to be way bigger than that.
Just because I acknowledge that Barry is very demonstrably held in higher regard by DC than him doesn't mean I don't like him more. I fucking like Tim Drake more than Damian but Damian's clearly in a much better position than Drake.
>He's obviously not or they wouldn't have bothered bringing him back, or have had him so integrated in Rebirth.
He clearly is or he wouldn't have, you know, been fucking deleted for 5 years and ignored for 10. Geoff Johns giving us a giant apology about how DC fucked his favorite character before bailing doesn't mean Wally's going to get major book or team support like he did in his heyday. That position is still Barry's and I don't see anything against it still.
Maybe in a few months we'll get a Wally West solo spinning out of Rebirth/Titans and Wally will show up in Justice League the way Jessica does even with Hal still around. But I seriously, heavily doubt it, especially given DC's history with him. DC is all about the status quo and Wally's big shake up hasn't changed much. He's literally back to where he was at Flash Rebirth #1 (the first time around). What happened then, despite EVERY Flash fan and their mothers begging DC not to fuck Wally?
Be a student of history.
>>83850210
>I fucking like Tim Drake more than Damian
No wonder this thread is so bad. It was made by a fucking Timfag.
>>83850081
So long as they're both The Flash Wally's never going to get a major selling solo title. DC isn't going to promote him over Barry so long as he's sharing his name. They fucking tried to turn him into a black sidekick 2 years ago. If you think DCU Rebirth is actually them about facing and not just trying to cash in on a little nostalgia before going back to normal then you're daft.
If he had his own title and his own name for old and new fans alike to gravitate towards atleast he'd have a chance, like Dick Grayson, to succeed on his own despite his mentor still being around. That's what I'm going for. I'd rather Wally go the way of Dick Grayson than Connor Hawke.
>>83850239
I'm clearly a Dickfag but I was just using an example. I like Cassie more than Donna Troy if you want to use that example. I just wanted an example that has gotten solo book support and a lot of editorial push and Damian fit the bill.
>>83850210
>maybe Flash as a side character
If you're just going to speculate all day then there's no point in arguing with you.
I'm not denying they might fuck it up, but you don't know that they will.
You literally do not know. And are going off of what you THINK is going to happen which is fucking stupid and pointless.
Even if they do change the name, if he's treated poorly it won't matter. It'll be the same either way. They can coexist, we'll just have to wait and see instead of throwing out all these speculations.
>>83850261
Giving him a shitty throwaway identity no one has any reason to care about it the perfect way to sideline him forever. Dick as Nightwing didn't work thematically with his shitty Batman Jr stories. The only reason he had an ongoing is because he was a popular Batcharacter written by the main Batman writer not because he had a unique identity or role. Flash is not as popular as Batman. It would not work for Wally when his fans already see it as an insult on top of everything.
I'd be cool with either staying Flash or getting a new name. But I think it'd be interesting to see Wally with a new name.
"LIGHTWING"kidding
The thing is, Wally taking over from Flash was his destiny, the Flash identity was his to inherit. To this day I don't think Dick should inherit the Bat mantle, because his independence from Batman and him growing his confidence as his own person were very important to the character's development in the 80's and 90's. I feel like Dick is the guy whose dad wants him to take over the family business someday, but deep down he really wants to do something else.
But Wally, he WANTS to take over, it was just a matter of him not having the confidence at first. So he's earned the Flash name and wants to keep it.
So there's not really a reason to change it, especially since he's actually a refugee from the old universe, so if there can be 2 Supermen, there can be two Flashes.
If there's anyone who needs a new name, though, it's Tim.
>>83850447
That's me being optimistic. If he's not even in The Flash as a side character then he's literally in one niche book. A return to form, huh?
It's not that they might fuck it up. It's that there's an unbreakable ceiling over him named "BARRY ALLEN" so long as he's being called The Flash. If he was his own dude then they could experiment with him, give him his own book, see how big the character Wally West gets on his own merits instead of this anathema of an idea they have where Wally is the "true" or best Flash that'll get people asking for him to replace Barry as the main Flash.
That was literally their worry in the New 52. Manapul said as much -- the reason Wally was put on the backburner was explicitly "If Wally was here people would just be wondering when he's going to replace Barry." This is DC's mindset. So put Wally in a situation where he and Barry are more separate, more distinct, so instead of him going over the top of the "real" Flash he can just get big on his own. Or atleast get an opportunity to.
The reason Wally's been treated as badly as he has been is BECAUSE he's The Flash. That's what you don't seem to get.
His name is Wally West, he's the fastest man alive, he's The Flash
>>83850531
>so if there can be 2 Supermen, there can be two Flashes.
uhhhhhhhh
>>83850573
PreFP and Chinese, not counting Lex, Lois, Lana, Kara, and whoever else might have powers
>>83850623
Oh, yes, Reign of the Supermen 2. Tell me how that worked out.
>>83850573
Well, two Clark Kent/Kal-Els. Just one is a dead body right now.
Kinda like how Morty lives fifty feet from his own corpse.
>>83850546
Why quote Manapul as evidence of DC's mindset and not Abnett?
>“He is the Flash! The DC Universe is accustomed to multiple Flashes and Green Lanterns running around, and Wally has every right to use that name.” said Abnett. “We are not going to change his name by default just because there is another Flash in the DCU.”
>>83850546
This is my last reply to you because you keep on doing this speculation bullshit.
Just fucking stop, you do not know how he's going to be treated, you just don't. It's way too early to tell whether or not keeping the name is a good idea (hint: it is), or not. Titans might be the best run in DC's history, or it might be the next Grounded, who knows? I sure don't, and neither do you.
Will Wally get an ongoing? Will he again surpass Barry as the Flash?
I don't know, but you don't either.
>>83848249
>Barry will forever be pushed as THE Flash.
> forever
> in comics
we thought wally was going to stay black for an eternity and even that got undone. there is no way barry isn't dying once ezra wants to get a new job.
you should really fuck off with that barryfagging
>>83849110
hahahahahahaha
>>83850683
Manapul explained DC's actions on why Wally was banned. Abnett is repeating the company line. Might as well ask why Wally got sidelined after Rebirth despite everyone involved going "Noooo, Wally will be fine guys. DC would never ruin Wally!"
There's an obvious difference in someone talking about what DC will totally be doing in the future and a writer reflecting on why DC restricted him from doing what he wanted. It's not the same situation of type of question.
>>83848303
>The key words there are "while Barry was gone." If Barry was never gone then he's never The Flash. If Barry isn't gone then he doesn't need to keep the name and mantle alive.
> What is "The Return of Barry Allen"?
seriously, fuck off casual.
>>83850772
You're trying to say "YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY'RE SUPPORTING WALLY ONLY SPECULATING" when my speculation is literally me hoping they'll do more with Wally than they are you fucking idiot.
Jesus. I can tell exactly how he'll be treated for the next few months because we know what DC's current launch schedule is.
>>83849758
>Wally will probably play some part in the next big event follow up but that doesn't mean a lot.
>next big event follow up
Every book following on DC Rebirth plots so far has been a Wally wankfest. fucking Dr Manhattan is on the Titans cover!
>>83850832
The Return of Barry Allen was written with the entire premise, from the start, that Barry wasn't actually coming back. A self contained story arc is obviously different from a status quo that's been in effect for years.
If DC actually brought Barry back in the early 90s then Wally would've never been the character we know and love.
Calling people casual when you're spouting bullshit about books you probably never read. Oh, wait, let me guess, you just scoped out that storytime and now you're the Wally expert?
>>83850886
Wally has shown up in two books since (admittedly it's only been 3 weeks) but one of them was him immediately leaving sooooo
I'll bet you right now that's not Manhattan on the cover but some filler villain Abnett dreamed up to tease folks. Manhattan isn't going to be in a third rate book like fucking Titans. He's gonna show up in some big major event or crossover book. Titans isn't and never will be that important.
>>83850860
No you're spectulating keeping the name is a bad idea because he'll forever be stuck in Barry's shadow. Which it's way too early to tell. You can't even remember your own arguement.
>Jesus. I can tell exactly how he'll be treated for the next few months because we know what DC's current launch schedule is.
Oh shit, Titans is out? The next few months of Flash is out? How was it?
>>83851015
You are literally incapable of following an argument. You jump to random shit no one was saying and then, when you get rebuffed, you go "YOU FORGOT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING'
No, faggot, I know what I was saying. You're the one making the strawman.
We've got solicits. We know Wally's in Titans and he might be in Flash(thus the speculations) based on those solicits. He's in nothing else. The entire point of solicits is so that we know where to go if we're looking for specific things.
>>83848449
>You're literally the only person
>>83848534
>your arguments fail to resonate with literally everyone else
No, he is not. Assuming your opponent is alone or trying to negate his arguments with "you don't understand anything" is really low.
I decided to lurk the thread and not intervene because I don't have anything to add to the conversation outside of the fact that I agree partially with him.
With the mess DC has done since Flashpoint at this point it would be better for Wally to get another name, but at the same time I don't think is that much of a problem and I don't mind both characters sharing the same hero name.
If I may ramble for a bit;
In an ideal circumstances I personally would have made things very different: I would have had Barry coming back without killing Wally, and making him feel disconnected and disoriented due to his "time skip".
Then I would've worked with that situation and exploit it to have Barry deciding that it was time for the next step of his life since Wally is being a great Flash already, changing to something new.
New way he sees his hero identity, new costume, new name; probably Captain "insert something related to speed", I'm not very creative when it comes to names either.
I know it probably sounds like a very stupid idea.
>>83849527
Speedy -> Red Arrow/Arsenal
Robin -> Nightwing
Aqualad -> Tempest
Wonder Girl - uh....Donna
Kid Flash -> Needs a new name
>>83851115
>Captain "insert something related to speed"
>Captain
Just fuck off already.
>>83850898
No idiot, the entire point was "What IF Barry came back?" Wolfman once said DC thought they would had to bring back Barry in a few years so he left a failsafe in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Waid did that book as an answer to that pressure.
He's staying as Flash because he earned it. Comparing him to Dick is retarded because they are polar opposites when it comes to their mentors. Dick didn't want to be Batman in the first place.
>>83851200
What's your problem, boy? I did admit I was not good at names, no need to overreact like a bitch.
>Just fuck off already
>already
I like how you assume that isn't my first post in this thread.
>>83851074
>Wally calling himself The Flash just forces him to live in Barry's shadow so long as Barry's around. He'll always be the other Flash
The fuck are you even talking about from the start this was about you assuming Wally would be treated like shit and a name change would be best for him to establish himself away cro. Barry.
You even used the phrase "live in Barry's shadow"
You have solicits sure, but you haven't read them yet. You're making an assumption years in advance that he'll be stuck in Titans forever.
>>83847827
>because they're cops and it's just another rank and beat that they run
Wally and Jay aren't police.
>>83851269
It was literally a story about Wally getting over his hangups about replacing Barry. It's a great story! Sure there's some meta context in Waid doing it to rebuff people asking to bring Barry back but the premise of the story wasn't "If Barry came back Wally's still great and fine!" That was the teaser before things went to shit and the real premise of the story started.
>>83847390
Ginger Flash
>>83851181
Donna's gone by Troia and Darkstar.
>>83847390
Mister Zip!
>>83851291
Those sentiments are ones clearly displayed by DC since 2010. Barry's da real Flash and Wally's a disposable side character. Very disposable. So disposable that they could bring him back as a minority troubled youth sidekick.
Thank god for fan backlash.
I mean, he's going to be in Titans because that's the only place for him. Barry's not getting kicked off the Justice League like Wally was when Barry came back. Wally's not JL material so long as Barry's around in DC's eyes.
So he gets to be on the B Team like the other sidekicks. It was actually a big deal, back in the day, that Wally graduated to the big leagues and was on the main Justice League roster. He was the first sidekick to pull that off, and the only one to do it on a long term basis.
But that accomplishment disappears the second Barry came back and it's going to be the case going forward. That's why Wally's in Titans -- it's where he "fits" while Barry's around. No matter what you think or project that's going to be Wally's position -- where he can and can't go is defined by where Barry Allen is.
>>83851394
Pegasus!
>>83847962
>They stopped doing that pretty quickly for obvious reasons
Because they stupidly rebooted the universe and fucked up decades of development
>>83851447
Dick stopping being Batman wasn't directly because of Flashpoint. He was never going to be Batman on a long term basis. Everyone knew that going in.
>>83851418
I really doubt he'll still be on Titans in 5 years.
>>83851418
If he's stuck on Titans he's stuck on Titans. A name change won't change that.
>>83851542
I was just using that as an example of the pecking order derived from his status as not as good as Barry in DC's eyes.
I mean Nightwing's stuck on Titans too but atleast he carries his own book and even shows up in JL every now and then.
>>83851485
The only reason he won't be is because the Titans book dies.
Wally was supposed to have back ups in Barry's Flash book that would spin off into a Speed Force book about the Flash Family but the 1st wave of back ups failed and DC canceled it so Wally got lost in the shuffle. Then Flashpoint happened and with new history he got limbo'd because it was easier. It's bad luck as much as anything.
Dude was the Flash for 20 years, generations of readers.
>>83851467
Yes until Bruce came back, and then Bruce came back, and then Dick stayed as Batman because he grew into the role
>>83851632
>the Titans book dies
And then what? He could leave Titans before it gets to that point. He could get an ongoing next year. Who knows, we're not all psychics like you.
>>83851632
Who's to say he won't get an ongoing down the line? Or won't show up in JL?
On the subject, can we talk about how annoying Wallyfags are? I like Wally himself just fine, but the fans, They go out of their way to shit on Barry Allen at whatever chance they get. I don't think there's any more annoying comic fan than wallyfags
>>83851877
How about dickfags who ruin every bat thread they can?
>>83851926
They're on the same level
>>83851706
I mean in Flashpoint they killed him off as a nobody in Captain Cold's spinoff. It's not like it was an unfortunate case of circumstance Wally got fucked. DC knew what they were doing.
>>83851754
Because last time they actually promised us Wally getting his own book with Barry around and they lied? Then kept him on the backburner because they didn't want another Flash stealing Barry's spotlight.
He's getting a second chance because DC basically saw the money in a big return issue but now he's right back to where he was before the reboot, hanging out with the Titans. Woop.
>>83851756
I mean he's not showing up in JL because that's where Barry's at. They don't ever have two Flashes on the same team.
The Streak
>>83851877
Barryfags are worse than Wallyfags. Buncha casuals who treat any mention of Wally like an affront to Barry's superiority while pretending a lot of the shit they like about Barry didn't originate with Wally.
>>83851877
"BUT BARRY CREATED THE SPEED FORCE HE'S THE BEST"
that's literally all I've heard when comparing the two since Rebirth, man.
>>83851954
>like it was an unfortunate case of circumstance Wally got fucked. DC knew what they were doing.
it was both. unless you think the nu52 was just to fuck over wally
>>83851877
>tfw no one can tell you're doing it in a friendly joking way bc internet
>>83851877
I agree, Wallyfags are becoming the new Dickfags.
>>83851954
>he's right back to where he was before the reboot, hanging out with the Titans. Woop.
And Titans is the first title to continue Rebirth's story, the biggest story going on right now
Why not call Wally's book "Wally West: Flash" and Barry's book simply "The Flash". That seems to solve both major issues. Having two Flashes really isn't that confusing, I mean there are literally four damn Green Lanterns on Earth and nobody is confused about them.
>>83851954
Yeah he's with the Titans now. But where will he be down the line? Neither of us know. Editorial seems to have had a slight change of heart by bothering to bring him back, instead of just ignoring him again.
Rebirth was going to sell regardless because of the Watchmen connection.
>>83851954
What if this is the era of a two Flash Justice League? How do you know it isn't?
>>83852105
Cynicism born of constant disappointment
>>83852095
Ditto
>>83851877
Barryfags are just as bad. If they didn't purposely shit on Wally, his fans wouldn't have been too bad in the first place.
For what it's worth Titans is under a different editor than in the past. No more Berganza
>>83852161
Even teen titans.
>>83852161
Yeah but it's written by Abnett and drawn by Booth. Not what I'd call a strong team.
>>83847390
Let it go.
>>83852388
Mark Waid is the ultimate fuccboi but he's probably the authority when it comes to writing Wally well.
>>83852305
Abnett's ok, Booth's an albatross tho you're right
>>83847390
Wally West is The Flash more than anybody except maybe Jay, you mong.
>>83852388
In an ideally run DC this would work but I'm trying to work within DC's history of how they treat Wally. I figure the healthiest place for the character is distanced from Barry's name.
>>83852429
Abnett's real hit or miss, especially without Lanning. I mean Titans Hunt was a bore. Though I'm guessing it was kind of derailed by DCURebirth, since it was originally supposed to be 12 issues...? Maybe I'm misremembering.
>>83852439
I don't disagree. DC does. And they're kind of justified what with the show and movies. Barry's the easiest to build up and push for that bigger market so it reflects in the comics (as much as they deny it).
Let me put it this way. There's a reason Wally's costume got changed and his lightning was changed and Barry's wasn't. He's not "as much" The Flash as Barry when it comes to the people running the show. It's why he's not, you know, the lead in The Flash and isn't going to be.
>>83852388
Hey man if Waid were the one in control I'd agree. But he isn't.
>>83852439
>>83852476
He's going to get Kyle Rayner treatment, they will give Wally OP like powers but put on a backburner. Titans may as well be his Omega Men.
>>83852538
I'd be a lot more optimistic if the Titans creative team was anywhere near as good as the Omega Men one.
>>83852527
And the people in control decided Wally's name is The Flash
>>83852584
Booth is a hit or miss but Abnett is a solid choice for the book. First issue was better than I expected, including the art honestly.
>>83852628
Yeah, they did that the first time around and look how that turned out. Them fearing for Barry's position so they buried Wally.
This idea removes that conflict of their interests, even if most of us couldn't give a shit.
>>83852707
And they realized that was a mistake
>>83852641
Booth is 100% miss. Dude's art is just ugly as heck. He's got a badcase of the same face (and it's not even a good looking face!) on top of shitty 90s muscles.
>>83852707
>This idea removes that conflict of their interests, even if most of us couldn't give a shit.
You're literally the only one who gives a shit
>>83852727
You say that but his return is marked by him rejoining the Titans, probably the least important part of his career as The Flash (because no one cared about the titans since NTT, frankly). None of the stuff about Wally that got lost in the wash is coming back.
I don't think they've ever called it a mistake, either. The Flash is going to be about tons of speedsters and it's not even The Flash family.
>>83852755
I give a shit for the same reason you (presumably) give a shit about Wally. Which would you rather have: Wally buried and forgotten in due time as a b-player to Barry's A status or atleast a chance at branching out on his own without DC's history of self sabotage?
Because all the problems they saw before still exist, even if we don't think they're problems.
>>83852802
I don't think you understand what's gong on here. I understand your concerns but here's actually what DC is trying to do: branching out.
Titans line was dead as a whole concept. DC needs income. They use Wally's name to make Titans relevant again so they can get back an entire franchise back.
Booth is already not subtle about a Wally solo being in talks over twitter and is lobbying to get its art duties.
>>83847390
Damn this thread was infuriating to read. All these "MUH WALLYFLASH" idiots.
Yes, Wally is the better Flash. YES, Wally was the Flash for most of us growing up.
NO DC IS NEVER GOING TO GET RID OF BARRY.
There are no TWO Batmen. There are no TWO Supermen. (Case in point, the new 52 one just bit the dust) There are no TWO Wonder Women.
If Wally sticks with the Flash, he will forever be second fiddle to Barry. He needs his own name, and just because that wasn't the way things were before, doesn't make that a valid reason.
>>83852973
> and just because that wasn't the way things were before, doesn't make that a valid reason.
it's a valid reason because rebirth panders to me, not you.
>>83852909
>Booth is already not subtle about a Wally solo being in talks over twitter and is lobbying to get its art duties.
This is worse than anything OP could've imagined.
>>83853098
as long as the writer is good, i couldn't give it a less shit.
>>83847390
>It's not like you can make a second The Flash title for Wally to headline, after all. People would just think it's another Barry Allen book.
Seems to work with the Green Lantern titles.
I grew up with Wally being the Flash so when Barry came back and the CW show followed Barry Allen's arch it wasn't hard for me to see them both as 'The Flash'. Even with as much as I watch the show or read the comics when I think of the Flash, I think Wally.
But I'm also a really big Green Lantern fan. I understand Green Lantern is a corp and the Flash is more of a mantle but to me it sort of follows with GL rules. Hal Jordan, Guy Garner, John Stewart, Kyle Rayner even Alan Scott (though a different hero altogether) among others are all a 'Green Lantern' and when I see a clip from the cartoons where the JL calls in Green Lantern I always expect Hal Jordan but when Stewart shows up instead I'm not confused or disappointed.
You are right if both comics were called "the Flash' people might get confused but that is also a stupid suggestion in the first place. It would obviously be called something different just like all the Lantern books that have been put out over the years.
>>83853216
Green Lantern's always been different. I don't think that bares comparison. It's not "THE Green Lantern -- the greenest man alive!" or whatever.
>>83847390
Boy are the Wallyfags triggered. I think it's better for him to get another name for the reasons you've listed and also to develop a new brand but Rebirth is all about pandering to the nostalgiafags so they might as well keep it for the time being.
>>83852444
>Abnett's real hit or miss, especially without Lanning. I mean Titans Hunt was a bore. Though I'm guessing it was kind of derailed by DCURebirth, since it was originally supposed to be 12 issues...? Maybe I'm misremembering.
Titan's Hunt was supposed to be the book Wally returned in; he was going to be the missing Titan there. Then Johns and DC wanted to do it in Rebirth, shuffling that big return over there and forcing Abnett to completely change what he had in mind for Titan's Hunt.
>>83853301
>Boy are the Wallyfags triggered
more like the casual barryfags who only watch the cw show are triggered here.
>>83852802
>y). None of the stuff about Wally that got lost in the wash is coming back.
They've already restored his friendships and legacy and they're clearly working towards something bigger. You can claim Titans is unimportant or a step back, but right now it's the only book continuing Rebirth's main story which at the moment is the biggest story in the company and it all revolves around Wally.
>>83852973
>There are no TWO Batmen
There's multiple all operating for Inc.
>There are no TWO Supermen.
As of right now
>Pre-Flashpoint Superman
>Luthor
>Chinese Superman
>Lois Lane
>Post Rebirth Clark
>>83847390
Dick was actively seeking to get out from under the Batman legacy, to become his own man. He has taken up the cowl for short periods sometimes but he never did it was an undesired responsibility for the sake of Gotham.
Wally never had the same desire to divorce himself from Barry, he was the father figure Wally looked up to and taking on the Flash legacy was an honor when Barry died.
Wally *was* the Flash, for us, for years and years, and even in the compressed comicbook timeline it must have been at least a coupla years where Dick maybe took on Batman's role for a couple of weeks in comicbook time.
Not all solutions are one size fits all. Dick and Wally have led very different lives with incredibly different mentors.
>>83853789
I get the point narratively. I even agree with it. That's not really the point of my argument.
>>83851877
This thread is literally a barryfag pretending to be a wallyfag
The worst of both worlds.
>>83848489
Barry named himself after a character in a comic book, Jay Garrick is the only one who can call himself The Flash.
>>83854693
Hey that picture I made! Glad it's seeing some use.
Mr. Zip indeed.
>>83854662
Wally and Barry are obviously way more similar and sit in the same niche far more than Jay does with any other speedster. That's the problem -- Jay fulfills a non-threatening role that DC's kind of okay with, but even then they also sidelined Jay and shipped him off to Earth 2 when Barry came back and after Flashpoint happened.
I've said I agree that it SHOULD be fine. But DC has failed this exact scenario many times. Why trust them this time instead of working around that Barry insecurity?
Red Flash
Flashwing
Flash Hood
Mr. Speedypants
Wally Quick
The Streakhttps://youtu.be/bxUfg3uCBbg
Red Impulse
Running Guy
Flash Lad
Flashman
Captain Flash
>>83847390
Fuck that.
That's like saying Hal Jordan should get his own name instead of being Green Lantern just because Alan was first. Most of what we know about the speedforce was from Wally's tenure If anything, he deserves to be The Flash and Barry should take a different name.
>But Barry was FIRST
No, Jay Garrick was first.
>>83854693
>those nipples
If this is a regular occurrence, Linda can't come back fast enough.
>>83855581
>I've said I agree that it SHOULD be fine. But DC has failed this exact scenario many times.
Literally one time
>>83856498
Wally to Bart, bart to wally, wally to barry. Barry with ANYONE ELSE at that point including Jay.
Barry to Wally only doesn't "count" because it turned out so well in spite of anything.
>>83856125
Eh the Speed Force has changed so much since Wally's tenure it doesn't even matter what happened when he was The Flash.
It's still currently Barry's exhaust fumes thanks to Rebirth 1.0 if I'm not mistaken. So clearly all that shit we learned in Wally's run doesn't matter.
