![[Marvelous Heroes] DISK Wars Avengers 30 [B3C37CB5].mkv_snapshot_04.02_[2016.06.16_12.32.17].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4aivt3E.jpg "[Marvelous Heroes] DISK Wars Avengers 30 [B3C37CB5].mkv_snapshot_04.02_[2016.06.16_12.32.17].jpg")
How the fuck did Japan actually do Deadpool right
>>83820029
didnt movie deadpool do deadpool right too?
![Mako-kill-la-kill-35921786-1280-720[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/q0H5MjW.png "Mako-kill-la-kill-35921786-1280-720[1].png")
A character that constantly panders its audience by breaking the 4th barrier and making jokes about otherwise serious situations.
How could they ever mess that up?
>>83820193
>anything I don't like is pandering
>it's all a conspiracy to oppress me
>Disk wars
What is this weebshit?
>>83820193
>Forgetting the Wolverine.
You lucky bastard.
>>83820238
a cartoons to sell toys
>>83820238
>>83820257
Japanese things cannot be wannabe Japanese, and Disk Wars isn't a cartoon.
I want to watch disk wars but its 50 episodes and I have a tendency to start shows and not finish them. 50 episodes seems like something I might not finish. Ironically I'm following a few different shows right now so I feel like either they or disk wars would take a back seat if I begin disk wars
>>83820323
the child partners are all whiny ass little bitches and the power creep gimmick is lame
you'd be better off rewatching EMH
>>83820029
But no, they really didn't
>>83820232
To be fair, almost all media has some level of pandering in order to draw some kind of audience. Its only really a bad thing when they go overboard with it.
But yeah, in this case Anon is completely retarded.
>>83821096
Nobody has ever proven the existence of any pandering in anime.
>>83820268
>Disk Wars isn't a cartoon.
Yeah it is, or are you really delusional enough to think it's not a cartoon if it comes from glorious Nippon?
>>83821096
But atleast otakus buy those things but SJW dont even buy comics but marvel still panders them.
>>83821207
Cartoons and anime are different forms of animation.
>>83821257
No they arent. Just different artstyle, culture differences that kinda it is.
>>83821251
SJW pandering is usually the heavy handed, overboard, really bad kind of pandering since that's the exact type of pandering they sit there and demand all the time. I'm completely lost as to why anyone puts up with their bullshit.
>>83821285
They have almost nothing in common with each other.
>>83820193
That's not what pandering means.
>>83821144
>>83821326
>>83821285
Just ignore the guy. He shows up in every thread that even mention Jap stuff in passing.
>>83821257
Notto disu shitto agen.
>>83821251
Threadly reminder that Whor is the best selling Marvel female.
>>83821326
Both are animations just from different countries.
>>83820794
I would like to see these guys on Luke cage show. Them prowler, Juggernaut, absorbing man.
>>83820122
Mostly yes
>>83821351
Why should I be ignored? Because I inconvinience your agenda?
>>83821364
If you don't want to talk about it then don't bring it up.
>>83821385
Like I just said, they have almost nothing in common with each other. They are very, very different from each other.
>>83821311
In other words, the people who are likely to rage about "WAR PANDERING" at the sight of minorities are also likely to think that any trace of minorities is heavy-handed and forced on them.
>>83821384
Really? I am really out of touch in comics. I watch anime more and read manga more too.
>>83821395
You're the one who brought it up >>83820268
>any kind of pandering is bad
>even when the character is meant to be cheap fun
Jesus /co/ wake up.
>>83821326
Except being the same medium. Oh but I forgot we call Japanese movies DORARARAs, oh wait we don't we just call them fucking movies.
>>83821428
Did you actually read >>83820257?
>>83821430
>>83821450
It doesn't matter that they are the same medium. It doesn't make them the same thing. They are artistically, culturally, demographically, commercially and industrially completely different.
>>83821428
>>83821450
Seriously, he's not worth the trouble, as fun asit is.
>>83821479
>demographically
Holy shit this delusion Japan has maybe 25% more adult cartoons and everything else is much the same
>>83821487
Stop being a passive-aggressive drama queen.
>>83821461
That's just a factual statement, not an appeal for you to spread your autism.
>>83821479
Yes but that's the case for everything about every different country. Anime is a useful term to quickly describe Japanese Animation, but to say it bears no similarities to western cartoons is retarded because it's literally the same thing made in a different place and therefore effected by the shift in country.
>>83821495
The majority of anime produced today is not for children, and even historically I don't think most of it was.
>everything else is much the same
Except completely different.
>>83821530
No, it isn't a factual statement. Cartoons and anime are not the same thing.
>>83821479
Why, it's almost like cartoons from different countries would be radically different! Whoda thunk it?
>>83821540
>it's literally the same thing made in a different place and therefore effected by the shift in country
Then why is almost everything about it completely different? Please explain.
>>83821096
Hey stop pandering to that anon
>>83821549
They aren't cartoons.
>>83821557
Because it's made in a different culture.
>why do houses made in Spain look completely different from the ones in the USA
>They're totally not houses anymore
This is you
>>83821257
God you are truly fucking lame
What show is this?
>>83821578
So you concede that almost everything about it is completely different. Then what are you arguing about?
>>83821586
Why?
>This is you
Except I never said that anime isn't animation.
>>83821591
>I can't read filenames
Marvel Disk Wars
>>83821578
It just goes to show what a terrible/wonderful decision it was for execs to introduce the word to the west.
>>83821596
No, I concede nothing except that you're autistic as shit. If you can't understand the concept of a medium then there's no fucking hope for you.
>>83821633
But you just clearly conceded that they're different:
>Because it's made in a different culture.
>If you can't understand the concept of a medium then there's no fucking hope for you.
Again: I never said anime isn't animation.
>>83821596
Reminder that manga literally translates to cartoon.
>>83821596
If it's animation it's a cartoon same as in the west. The subject matter, demographic aimed for, style, technique, content all have no bearing on whether or not an animated show or feature film fall under the category of cartoon. All animated shows and movies in the west And Japan are cartoons by the very definition of the word. Your personal feelings on this are irellevant. Anime are simply cartoons from japan
>>83821662
Did you mean anime because manga is comic.
>>83821662
The word predates the Meiji period and according to Wikipedia it means multiple things including but not limited to cartooning. In any case you're just making a semantic argument.
>>83821683
Cartoons and anime are both different subsets of animation.
You seem to be under the impression that cartoon is a completely neutral word that describes the idea of animation in general, but that's not how the word has actually been used. If it was, we wouldn't be having this debate.
>>83821430
/co/ can't into fun anymore.
And, to be fair, so cannot nobody else in the West really. Everything is political now. Calls to mind the social climate before WWII.
>>83821487
I know, I've danced that dance before, he's just so unnerving I can't help myself. He's scrapper or Famicom levels of autism.
>>83821544
Yeah they are.
>>83821557
It isnt.
>>83820029
It's amazing how one anon can ruin an entire thread with his retarded autism.
Sorry OP, better luck next time.
>>83821683
You could argue that 3DCG isn't, since it's not drawn, but that definition was before the technology.
>>83821690
No. Both manga and cartoon mean "drawn images", though cartoon has a connotation of animation. Also, the Japanese word most often used for comics is the English word comics.
>>83821719
Semantics? There better be in a discussion of definitions
>>83821752
I get it, but I'm done from here on.
>>83821752
If you have something to say to me then say it. Are you just upset because you lost an argument?
>>83821719
>Cartoons and anime are both different subsets of animation.
>You seem to be under the impression that cartoon is a completely neutral word that describes the idea of animation in general, but that's not how the word has actually been used. If it was, we wouldn't be having this debate.
Oxford dictionary defines cartoon (in the sense were speaking of) as...
' A motion picture using animation techniques to photograph a sequence of drawings rather than real people or objects.'
It is as simple as that. Your own or others belief in the differences between eastern and western animation altering that simple categorization are incorrect. If you believe they aren't give me an alternate definition with a source that backs up your claim. If you choose not to provide a source I'll know you're just using personal opinions as your guidelines.
>>83821781
>Semantics? There better be in a discussion of definitions
Your argument is basically that things are defined by what they're called. So if manga (according to you) translates to cartoon, it means manga and cartoons are now the same thing.
>>83821823
Yes, they are the same thing because they have the same define in their respective languages.
>>83821719
There's no debate, nobody makes that distinction except you. does your dumb reasoning also apply to dessins animés?
What about co productions between west and Japan?
>>83821785
The distinctions you make are superficial and arbitrary. The main difference is country of origin.
>>83821821
>>83821857
When animation was developed in America , it meant a very specific kind of animation. It meant things like Silly Symphonies. It didn't mean some generic idea of animation, it meant the animation that was actually being produced at the time. Cartoon had also been used to refer to humorous illustrations, and later comic strips. And what do you know, American animation was a lot like humorous illustrations and comic strips.
Television animation continued along the same lines as cartoon shorts, and this is the animation that people were talking about when they talked about cartoons. Today, the word is very often a derogatory term used to attack anime. You'll also see that there are distinct differences in how the word is used and not used in the Wikipedia entries for Disney, American animation, Ghibli and anime. You'll see as well that anime fans use the term much less often than fans of American animation. But why would that be? Isn't cartoon merely a synonym for animation? Isn't this all just in my head, and everyone else uses the two interchangeably? Hmm.
>>83821853
They aren't even the same medium, and even if we disregard that they're still completely different.
>>83821883
What is arbitrary about, for example, the differences in animation techniques and character design?
>>83821596
You said if wasent a cartoon that's the same fucking thing
>>83821938
No it isn't.
>>83820122
>calling their moves out loud
Neat.
>>83820323
I saw the first few episodes of Disk Wars, a few random ones in the middle including the Deadpool episode, and the finale. I felt like I didn't really miss anything between episodes 5 and 50, other than the kids getting scouters that let them somehow aid the heroes in battle, which I'm shocked they didn't do sooner.
As for DP, this may just be symptomatic of my disdain for how Marvel markets Wade Wilson these days, but I loathed that they insisted on calling him a "hero for hire" because that's kid-friendlier than just straight-up calling him a mercenary. Once you remove everything that isn't kid-friendly from the character, you're just left with lolsorandum humor, and I can't even remember a single joke from that episode.
>>83821785
Your reminding me of 60 multimeltas guy here
>>83821962
So you agree that you are just upset because you lost an argument.
>>83821962
And even more so why do people like catwomen anon
>>83821450
Tokusatsu
>>83821934
"Cartoon"was used to mean comic strips before animation existed. Animation is a subset of cartoon. "Manga", similarly, is used to mean both static drawings and animation. Japan the English words "animation" and "comic" to refer to such things.
>>83821934
>Animation only comes from the united states of America or japan
>>83822006
>"Cartoon"was used to mean comic strips before animation existed.
That just strengthens my argument.
>Animation is a subset of cartoon.
It is exactly the other way around.
>>83822007
Where did I say that?
Does this mean manga and Western comics are different mediums, despite being the exact same thing? I'm a bit out of date with my Captain Autismo definitions.
>>83821934
In all your ramblings you provided no sources of alternative definitions of the term cartoon. Only your own feelings on it and General vague references to others opinions on the terms.
Its clear you base the 'anime and cartoons aren't the same thing' entirely on your personal views. You associate cartoon with a type of cartoon rather than the true logic that anime and western cartoons like merry melodies ate both simply TYPES of cartoons the same as a dodge charger and a Harley Davidson motorcycle are both TYPES of motor vehicles.
>>83822069
Comics and manga are different too, even if not quite to the same extent as cartoons and anime.
>>83822079
>muh sources
You are absolutely braindead if you think that everything in this world comes down to "sources" that by your reasoning must have come from God himself.
I have logical reasons for my position, not just >muh sources.
>TYPES of cartoons the same as a dodge charger and a Harley Davidson motorcycle are both TYPES of motor vehicles.
Anime is a type of animation, not a type of cartoon. By your logic we could say a Harley is a type of car.
>>83821934
>Hmm.
Top kek. Also you're wrong, cartoon was used to describe all sorts of animation.
>Wikipedia
They don't call the Simpsons a cartoon either. And since you bring it up might want to look up "cartoon" on there.
>Anime fans getting offended
Well yeah they're faggots and think changing the name will remove the stigma of an adult watching animation.
>Character design and animation technique
Is Avatar an anime? Is Animaniacs? Is Shin Chan a cartoon?
Disk Wars was terrible
>>83822079
People like him are the reason I excised "anime" and "manga" from my vocabulary. I say "animations" (as in "an animation") to refer to anything animated, "comics" to refer to all comics, and "cartoon" to refer to both. The definitions fit historically and internationally, and it's the most convenient way to organize it.
just posting this
>>83820122
I went in with low expectations and was pleasurably suprised
>>83820122
What an awful goddamn design on Cap.
>>83821934
People use "cartoon" as a derogatory word for western stuff, too, knucklehead.
>>83822195
Needs REDLLLLLLLLIIIINNNNEEEEEE
>>83822195
What determines what country a cartoon is from? Where it was animated, or where it was conceived?
>>83822141
There was no "all sorts of animation" like there is now.
>They don't call the Simpsons a cartoon either.
Why wouldn't they call The Simpsons a cartoon when all animations are cartoons? And what about the discrepancies I just mentioned?
>Well yeah they're faggots and think changing the name will remove the stigma of an adult watching animation.
Why are you saying there's a stigma attached to the word? I thought cartoon is a perfectly neutral word that simply means animation--all sorts of animation?
>Is Avatar an anime? Is Animaniacs? Is Shin Chan a cartoon?
Those were examples, not a total listing of all the things that are different about anime. Even then, Avatar does not have the same animation and character design. It gets fairly close, but then again it is consciously emulating anime.
>>83822189
I just explained why cartoon is not an appropriate synonym for animation. There are also well-founded reasons for calling anime anime instead of just animation.
>>83822223
I thought cartoon is a neutral word that just means animation? Why would there be anything derogatory about it?
>>83822129
You haven't argued your logical reasons either, you just keep repeating "they're different".
And yeah sources do matter when you're arguing that your definition is the common usage.
>>83822129
So you have no external basis other than your own opinion. Got it...just another 'BUT I feel' person with nothing concrete to backed itt up.
Sorry buddy we go by actual definitions not your "logic" that has nothing backing it up than your personal feelings on he matter
>>83822263
>You haven't argued your logical reasons either
Feel free to stop lying any time: >>83821934
>And yeah sources do matter when you're arguing that your definition is the common usage.
See >>83822129 and >>83821934
>>83822277
See >>83821934
>>83822260
>>83822263
I care more about convenience than common usage, hence >>83822189
If language is evolving, we should be deliberate in making it strong, not just let it go wherever people arbitrarily fling it out of laziness.
>>83820029
Any examples?
You just posted a picture where Deadpool says "Let's get married, honey"
>>83822347
You're not making it strong though.
>>83820029
God DAMN IT, I lost!
>>83822300
Again nothing to BACK IT UP. What you and other anime fans FEEL does not determine how a word is defined. You have provided nothing that states anime is not a cartoon. I have provided a definition as well as it's source (the world recognized Oxford dictionary) to refute your claim. You need to stop acting like your opinions on how the word cartoon is perceived by yourself or other anime fans changes anything. For all their differences western toons and anime are animated features. By definition that is a cartoon. That is simple fact. What you have presented are only your opinions.
>>83822347
What you care about doesn't matter. It doesn't change what words mean.
>>83822386
>muh sources
The Wikipedia generation is braindead. Absolutely braindead. They think anything on Wikipedia and the dictionary is absolute law, and cannot conceive of the idea that they're just things written by people and can be challenged by other people.
I provided logical reasons as to why your usage of the word is incorrect, and all you can come up with is >muh sources and lying about me using emotional arguments.
>For all their differences western toons and anime are animated features. By definition that is a cartoon.
Cartoons and anime are different subsets of animation.
>>83822260
>>83822260
So because we used cartoon to describe all animation at a time it was less diverse, it means it only applies to animation similar to that time period?
That's faulty reasoning.
And wrong too considering things like The King and the Mockingbird is from the 50s.
Wikipedia is a shit source is my point.
There being a stigma attached doesn't change the definition. "Nigger" also has a stigma attached and is used in a derogatory manner, but it still means black person.
So what exactly makes Avatar a cartoon?
>>83822441
The word was used to describe the kind of animation that was produced in America, and the association remains to this day.
>There being a stigma attached doesn't change the definition.
Why is there a stigma? Isn't cartoon just another way of saying animation?
>So what exactly makes Avatar a cartoon?
I never said it is one.
>>83822370
Three words to describe two things for which there are currently at least eight arbitrary sections which lead to guys like >>83822435 because of vague definitions seems like an improvement to me.
>>83822300
That's not logic, just a skewed interpretation of history to validate your reasoning. Your premises are wrong, therefore so is the reasoning you make from them.
>>83822483
Anyway, can we please stop terrorizing the thread?
>>83822435
So the Oxford dictionary doesn't count because you say so?
>>83822347
You were literally arguing from common usage a few posts back's even citing Wikipedia.
>>83822483
?
>>83822494
You are lying.
>>83822501
The definition can be logically demonstrated to be wrong, which I already did.
>>83822503
PERHAPS there is more than one guy who disagrees with your BS?
>>83822254
Conceived. Writing and script in shows like Animaniacs still came from America and aren't really considered anime despite being animated their.
Not to mention that majority of "American" cartoons are now animated in South Korea.
>>83822435
Saying 'much sources' doesn't make them unimportant when arguing about the meaning of something. Also I only mentioned Oxford. You are the lame fuck who actually went Into Wikipedia entries and how the words are used or not used therein. See >83821934.
So what kind of hypocrite are you that In one posts tries to back your entirely opinion based logic with mentions of Wikipedia , then in another puts people on blast for relying on it when I never even mentioned it before now.
The simple fact is none of your so called logic changes the meaning of the word cartoon. And none of your disdain for others use of sources to back up their own claims makes those sources any less valid. You want anime and cartoon to both be considered different subsets of animation. They are by definition not so. You wanna ignore said definitions be cause you don't agree...fine. But you are factually wrong when doing so.
>>83822435
>Says the guy citing Wikipedia
The hypocrisy here is staggering.
>>83822580
Treating sources like they were the immutable word of god is braindead.
>You are the lame fuck who actually went Into Wikipedia entries and how the words are used or not used therein.
Thas has nothing to do with sources and formal definitions, that's just how the editors use the word throughout the articles. There are clear differences, differences which should not exist if everyone except me agrees that cartoon and animation mean the same thing.
>The simple fact is none of your so called logic changes the meaning of the word cartoon.
It does.
>They are by definition not so.
They are.
>>83822601
Where did I cite Wikipedia and how?
>>83822601
He's now trying to imply that post was a different guy who just happened to be arguing an identical line of reasoning the exact same way
>>83822465
But that's wrong, it was used to describe all animated drawings.
There's stigma towards adults watching animation in general, nothing to do with the term cartoon.
So Avatar isn't an anime nor a cartoon. What is it?
>>83822633
Oh, there is at least one instance where I did cite it:
>The word predates the Meiji period and according to Wikipedia it means multiple things including but not limited to cartooning.
To be clear, I am not saying that Wikipedia or a dictionary must be wrong and cannot be a reliable source; I am saying that something is not true simply because it's on Wikipedia or a dictionary.
>>83822633
>>83822580
Instead of arguing what they ARE, shouldn't we discuss what the terminology SHOULD BE, to avoid arguments like this and also general confusion?
>>83822195
good b9
>>83822633
Yeah your a fucking infant. I'm sorry there no dignified way around this. You are claiming that you personally determine the meaning of words rather than internationally recognized institutions. There's no point in arguing with that kind of delusion since you ignore even proof going 'my belief renders proof unimportant'.
>>83822649
Where did I try to imply that?
>>83822684
Almost all of it was cartoon animation, and the vast majority of animation produced in the US has been cartoon animation or animation derived from it.
>There's stigma towards adults watching animation in general, nothing to do with the term cartoon.
People here have specifically suggested that the term itself has a stigma attached to it, while simultaneously arguing that it's the same thing as animation. I have never seen any negative stigma attached to animation--unlike cartoon, it actually is a neutral term.
When people attack anime, they usually go out of their way to call it cartoons, not animation.
>>83822740
Definitions and encyclopedias are written by PEOPLE. They can also be challenged by people. They are not the immutable word of god exempt from all criticism. If it can be logically shown that a definition is wrong, then why should it be considered a valid definition?
>There's no point in arguing with that kind of delusion since you ignore even proof going 'my belief renders proof unimportant'.
Your "proof" is literally "this guy said so."
>>83822536
That's not what lying is, and I demonstrated your premises to be wrong: there was animation in the west other than merry melody types that was also called cartoons.
>>83822537
But there actually isn't don't lie.
>>83820029
But they didn't
>>83822811
>there was animation in the west other than merry melody types that was also called cartoons.
This has already been addressed.
>>83822826
So it's a bunch of me's from different time planes converging to take down a threat bigger than one man can handle?
>>83822174
Hey, i like it.
>>83822782
So then you agree the term was applied to things that don't fit your novelty definition, making your reasoning wrong.
>No stigma attached to animation
That's a lie and you know it.
So is this all a persecution complex because someone bullied you for liking "cartoons"
>>83822902
It doesn't make it wrong and there is no reason why it would. You are talking about insignificant exceptions.
>That's a lie and you know it.
No. It's a neutral term.
>So is this all a persecution complex because someone bullied you for liking "cartoons"
Now why would anyone do that? Cartoon is just a synonym for animation--a completely neutral term suggesting no particular kind of content.
>>83822839
No it hasn't. You just said "well a lot of it was", which doesn't contradict anything.
Your reasoning is akin to saying the term "anime" only applies to shonen because they're the dominant genre.
>>83822857
Autismverse?
>>83822945
You are talking about insignificant exceptions and trying to make it seem like American animation in the early 20th century was like anime in 2016. Nonsense.
>>83822939
You haven't demonstrated they're exceptions or insignificant. They aren't.
The fuck are you talking about "neutral term", that doesn't exist. And even if it did that wouldn't mean watching animation doesn't have a stigma.
>>83822994
Cool strawman, weeb.
>>83823030
But they are.
>The fuck are you talking about "neutral term", that doesn't exist.
It exists and it's called animation.
>And even if it did that wouldn't mean watching animation doesn't have a stigma.
We aren't talking about that.
>>83820794
TOKUSENTAI!
TOKUSENTAI!
>>83823051
I made no strawman and I'm not a weeb.
>>83821144
I know this is bait. But what's the difference between fan service and pandering?
>>83822195
> Ever watching weebshit like Winnie the Pooh, Animaniacs, Gargoyles, and An American Tail
>>83821257
LOL your on the wrong board anon.
>>83821395
Hurr durr I'm on the co board talking bout a/ I'm better than company wars cause I like to argue cartoon semantics
>>83823159
Fanservice is a misnomer because it implies content that was only placed there to placate audiences, which disregards the rather real possibility that authors also enjoy that kind of stuff and placed it there for that reason.
Pandering doesn't exist.
>>83823185
Why?
>>83823227
I didn't start this thread or bring up this topic.
>>83820193
you talkin' shit about Mako?
>>83821479
Wow my fantasy characters is made on a computer by a guy in a different country with a different cultures so even though your guys doing the exact same thing with the exact same technology to almost same demographic and they're completely unrelated
>>83823054
Geez you're dumb.
I'm done with you.
>Inb4 you count that as a win
>>83823280
Once again, cartoons and anime are very different and have almost nothing in common.
>>83823312
Why am I dumb?
>>83823159
afaik nips only call it service. fan service is to please the fans. put pointless shit (fan favorite character is there just because he's a fan favorite not because he's relevant at the moment) in is fan service.
put other pointless shit (pantyshots) in is pandering.
>>83823340
How do you know it's pandering? How do you know the author doesn't just like pantyshots?
アニメ "anime", is a shortened form of アニメーション、"animation". It's a direct loanword from English, and in Japan, is used to refer to any animation regardless of country of origin.
English speaking people have in turn adopted the word "anime" and it's used colloquially to refer pretty much exclusively to animation conceived and produced in Japan.
Lolicon is a shortened version of Lolita Complex, and the word lolicon in Japanese is used to describe a person attracted to underaged girls. English speaking manga enthusiasts have subsequently re-adopted the word lolicon and use it exclusively to refer to manga featuring the sexualization of under-aged girls.
This kind of word adoption and subsequent re-adoption happens all the time between Japanese and English, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's important to not get confused and wrapped up in semantics. Basically, if you're a Japanese person, Avatar, the Boondocks, and Ed Edd and Eddy can be described as "anime". If you're an English speaking person outside of Japan, only works from Japan should be referred to as anime. Are these divisions necessary? In some ways, I think they are. Animation in Japan has a rich and fascinating history and has evolved in a totally different direction since it's early American animation inspired roots. I think it's worthy of having it's own word and having it's own scholars. However, I don't think anyone should get upset when people call anime-inspired(and in some cases, partially outsourced to Japan) shows like Avatar or the Boondocks anime. America has a nearly 30 year history of outsourcing animation to oriental countries including Japan and S. Korea. Also, the Japanese themselves outsource to S. Korea, the Phillipines, and Vietnam in some cases.
>>83823590
tl;dr I am attracted to underaged girls
>>83823432
Kid, I know you're teenage horomones are making you think, "gee, I like seeing girls in almost naked situations, even more than actual porn, because I can get away with watching this in front of my parents and still get turned on, so why WOULDN'T a bunch of adults feel the same way, let alone over half of all people in the anime industry who make these shows!"
I know it comes as a shock, but the reason why they put those shots in isn't because the entire production team (or, in the case of manga, the mangaka/clean-up crew) likes seeing half-naked girls, it's because they know YOU like it.
Sure, some of them may like it, too. I know the One Piece guy does. But that doesn't make it not pandering. You put in what makes something sell. And it's been happening for decades, just look at shows like Gundam being stretched out to sell more toys, or more recently, the excess of pantyshots and almost naked people, girls and boys alike.
Sex sells. Japan is more accepting of sexual imagery in television. Therefore, they sell you with sexual images.
I know, it hurts to think about how you aren't always right, but hey. Glad you learned before High School. You can run along now to your anime club and tell them that, or just go to them and whine about how some guy on the internet called you out on your bullshit; either is fine by me.
>>83823590
In the 80s lolicon was essentially the same word as moe is now. It meant an attraction to 2D characters.
>However, I don't think anyone should get upset when people call anime-inspired(and in some cases, partially outsourced to Japan) shows like Avatar or the Boondocks anime.
They aren't anime so they shouldn't be called anime.
>Also, the Japanese themselves outsource to S. Korea, the Phillipines, and Vietnam in some cases.
Outsourcing some in-between animation is not the same thing as outsourcing the entire animation process wholesale.
>>83823636
>Kid
Projection. Aren't you too young to be posting here?
>I know it comes as a shock, but the reason why they put those shots in isn't because the entire production team (or, in the case of manga, the mangaka/clean-up crew) likes seeing half-naked girls, it's because they know YOU like it.
This is the popular fallacy that creators and fans are two totally, absolutely separate and different groups of people in Japan, which is not true. There's hardly any difference between them. Creators are fans and fans are creators, and today's doujinshi artists are tomorrow professionals.
>>83823636
But what if i am in late 20s and i still like fanservice? Is it wrong?
>>83823974
You can still like it, it's just that that's the main demographic. That and Otaku of all ages, I guess.
Nothing wrong with liking something, just don't pretend it isn't pandering, too.
>>83823999
It's not pandering unless you have conclusive evidence or very persuasive reasoning to show that it is.
>>83823728
>They aren't anime
Sure. However, without a doubt, they are アニメ.
Lolicon has always referred to a sexual attraction to little girls. It comes from Lolita, Nabokov's classic novel about a man's affair with a little girl. It is not nor has it ever been tied exclusively to 2D girls: that misconception is born of the Anglosphere seeing lolicon as a comic book genre. Moe was coined around the same time in the 80s, and is used to describe a love of 2D characters.
>>83822235
This
>>83824196
>Nabokov's classic novel about a man's affair with a little girl
It's basically On the Road, only that the MC is a rapist and abductor.
>>83822195
this is pretty clever, but I wouldn't consider the Super Mario Bros show or that Green Lantern movie "essential animation" of any country. Honestly, none of the American shows on that chart are impressive.
>>83824196
It doesn't matter that the Japanese call them anime.
Nakamori Akio, who coined the term otaku, used the the term lolicon to refer to men who have a 2D complex, and criticized otaku for not being interested in real women. Source: Patrick W. Galbraith: "Otaku Research" and Anxiety about Failed Men.
The most probable origin for "moe" is that someone misspelled a kanji on 2ch or some other discussion site.
>>83822195
I'm surprised that the list isn't actually bad, there's some bullshit sure but most on it are actually good stuff.
>>83824415
>Nakamori Akio, who coined the term otaku, used the the term lolicon to refer to men who have a 2D complex, and criticized otaku for not being interested in real women.
Ah, now I see why you're confused. You think that because Nakamori called people attracted to 2D characters lolicons that the word lolicon is defined as an attraction to 2D characters. That is not the case. The word lolicon, when used in reference to a person, translates as pedophile. You've misread the intent there. Nakamori wasn't redefining the word lolicon to refer to people with 2D complexes, he was just calling those people pedophiles.
>>83820122
I love it when they call out the attack names.
What anime is this, is it good? It kinda looks good.
Also, I watched watched like the first episodes of boku no pico academia and is pretty good mongolian capeshit.
>>83824415
Also, for several linguistic reasons I'm not willing to get into, it's highly unlikely that someone "misspelled a kanji" and gave birth to moe. You should learn a bit of Japanese before spouting some nonsense like that.
>>83820029
Disk Wars did a lot of things right.
>>83824611
He impression was specifically that otaku are not interested in real women and have a 2D complex, i.e. they are not pedophiles. You can't be a pedophile unless you're attracted to prepubescent children. Nakamori's ideas were further elaborated on by Eji Sonta, who associated lolicon with manga and anime and accused otaku of not accepting reality. He also cited a lolicon artist who said that "even otaku boys have plenty of chances to be be friendly with girls in reality, rather than being broody and closed off you should be proactive," implying that otaku were not pursuing real girls.
>>83824768
The computer filled in the kana input with a different kanji than what the writer intended, and he didn't notice.
>>83824415
>misspelled a kanji
What the fuck does this even mean?
>>83824868
See above.
I don't know why this isn't obvious to people.
>>83823999
Of course it is pandering.
>>83824907
How do you know that?
>>83821285
Well, anime isn't exactly a "style" per se, more like a catch all term for any cartoon that is Japanese made.
>>83824946
They aren't cartoons.
>>83824974
Sure they aren't.
>>83824863
The word in this usage predates Japanese PC, and definitely the web.
>>83825003
They aren't since cartoons and anime are two different kinds of animation.
>>83825012
I've never heard a version of the etymology that says the term is older than the 90s, let alone older than PCs in Japan.
Another theory for the word is that it's from the name of Hotaru Tomoe, which would place the origin in the early or mid 90s.
But using the wrong kanji sounds the most plausible.
>>83824710
It's called Marvel: Disk Wars.
It's basically if Bakugan was made by a comic book nerd, but better.
Apparently a westerner who mooved to japan is on the animation team of naruto. Does that mean naruto's no longer an anime or are there 5 second snippets that aren't considered anime?
>>83825183
Well he lives in Japan, so it's still anime.
It's not like they were funded by Americans, or that the original story was made by an American.
>>83825083
Perhaps that's because you're trusting English sources on a non-English term surrounded by a community with strong personal bias. The "mis-typed" explanation makes zero sense, though, because that would imply a relevant homophone, in which it wouldn't have been the origin.
>>83823340
Wrong wrong wrong.
All fan service is pandering, but not all pandering is fan service.
Pandering means appealing to a certain demographic, not necessarily primary demographic (See: SJW pandering in modern comics).
Fan Service means "material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series which is intentionally added to please the audience. The term originated in anime and manga fandom but has been used in other mediums. It is about "servicing" the fan – giving the fans "exactly what they want." Fan service usually refers to "gratuitous titillation", but can also refer to intertextual references to other series or story and visual elements that audiences tend to desire."
tl;dr: Fan Service can be sexual things like panty shots or things like fan favorite characters showing up again.
>>83825183
Why would that mean it isn't considered anime? Western animators, like Japanese animators, use a specified style for their work and draw the animation based on the storyboards. Their work is then checked by the animation director.
>>83825225
Something isn't anime just because it's made on Japanese soil.
>>83825240
Patrick W. Galbraith has a Ph.D from the University of Tokyo and has written several books and papers on otaku culture and other topics. He is probably the foremost expert on the topic in the English speaking world.
>Moeru (nominalized as moe) is a simple Japanese verb meaning 'to bud or sprout,' and is homophonous with the verb 'to burn.'
Therefore it's likely someone intended to say the latter but accidentally used the kanji for the former.
>>83825278
>All fan service is pandering,
The logic here goes like this: Creators have no interest in fanservice, as they are pure celestial beings free from worldly desires. They only engage in fanservice to please fans or to exploit them or because they have no choice. The fans on the other hand like fanservice for its own sake. This logic is perfectly sound as long as you assume that creators were never fans and fans can never become creators. Unfortunately this absolutely falls apart in Japan, as anyone familiar with the doujin scene could tell you. Fans are creators and creators are fans.
REEEEE!
The 1941 Superman is NOT a CARTOON!
Superman is a SERIOUS show with a focus on ACTION and DRAMA over COMEDY.
CARTOONS are dumb shit for babies and can't be serious because I say so.
Superman is an ANIMATION, get your shit straight.
And stop calling Comics "Comics", there's nothing humorous about my super hero graphic novel! Comics are dumb jokes printed in newspapers, super hero graphic novels are serious works of literature.
>>83825470
FOR FUCK'S SAKE YOU RETARD
THE CREATOR CAN ENJOY FANSERVICE, TOO, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT FANSERVICE.
IT JUST MEANS THEY'RE ALSO FANS, AND ARE SERVICING THEMSELVES. YOU THICK FUCK.
I wish we had a board for animation and Comic/manga instead of /co/ and /a/. it would be shit I know, plagued with shitposting but I think there could be a small chance of it being goood once in a while.
>>83825476
I'm not the one who decided on the use of "cartoon" and what sort of connotations it has, and I never said comics shouldn't be called comics. But I wonder why the term "graphic novel" came around... probably because "comic" also has negative connotations similar to "cartoon."
>>83825511
In other words they're putting content in a work because they enjoy it. Why should it be called fanservice? Should we also call it fanservice when a mystery novelist writers a murder mystery? Was Isaac Asimov fanservicing when he wrote about robots?
>>83824938
I have been a long time in this and i know what is pandering and what is not.
>>83825550
Everyone says that, yet it's never been proven to exist.
>>83825470
No, neither of those meanings can be used in the context of what "moe" means. It makes much more sense for it to be intentional.
>>83825566
jesus fuck you're dumb
>>83825640
Move along, nothing to see here.
>>83825470
Holy shit, I've never seen so much stupid in one post.
>Something isn't anime just because it's made on Japanese soil.
Yes it is. Saying that anime is a "style" is a grand disservice to the vast array of styles that have been seen in anime over the years. What similarities do things like, say, Akira and Nichijou have in common in terms of artistic style? They look very different, but you would still call both "anime".
And of course, you can't forget that Astroboy is considered one of the most important and influental anime of all time, it that was very much inspired by the classic Disney style of cartoon.
>The logic here goes like this: Creators have no interest in fanservice, as they are pure celestial beings free from worldly desires. They only engage in fanservice to please fans or to exploit them or because they have no choice. The fans on the other hand like fanservice for its own saBlah blah blah you're cutting into my 1500 characters per post
That is stupid, and you are stupid. Because the creators were fans, it means that they can't pander to other fans, since they're ultimately pandering to themselves as well? You're taking the term fan service too literally, it's a term with a set definition, you can't just change it as you please.
Or apparently you can, since you seem to think that because the word cartoon hurts your feelings, you can discard it like a used towelette.
>>83825537
Content that the creator enjoys can still be fan service, dipshit.
>>83825661
except your retardation, retard
>>83825695
Sorry, different guy.
>>83825737
oh
your retardation has been reverted from acknowledged to unknown status
>>83825611
Most likely someone wanted to communicate that a character gets him "fired up" or "burning with passion," but since he used the wrong kanji the meaning changed to something involving "sprouting" and "budding," which then morphed into a slang word expressing romantic love towards a character.
Misspellings, grammar mistakes and misused words have created terminology and memes before.
>>83825640
I'm dumb because people keep making a claim over and over again yet always fail to prove it no matter what? Yeah, sure. I must be the dumb one here. I should Listen and Believe.
>>83825661
Yes, let's ignore people who ask tough questions that might undermine our beliefs.
>>83825675
If you fly Hanna-Barbera people to Japan and they make an episode of Jetsons, it's not anime just because they produced it on Japanese soil. That's a completely absurd idea.
>Saying that anime is a "style" is a grand disservice to the vast array of styles that have been seen in anime over the years.
It is, broadly, a style of animation.
>What similarities do things like, say, Akira and Nichijou have in common in terms of artistic style?
Similarities in character design (both can be readily identified as anime/manga), same animation techniques, use of cinematic filmmaking techniques.
>And of course, you can't forget that Astroboy is considered one of the most important and influental anime of all time, it that was very much inspired by the classic Disney style of cartoon.
What about it?
>Because the creators were fans, it means that they can't pander to other fans, since they're ultimately pandering to themselves as well?
By default they are not pandering. If you think they are, you must prove it.
>Content that the creator enjoys can still be fan service, dipshit.
Then why isn't I, Robot fanservice? Why isn't Lord of the Rings fanservice? Why aren't they ever accused of pandering?
>>83825819
you're literally claiming pandering has never existed, retard
look how retarded you are
>>83825798
It's okay, I might be retarded. But the other guy has been at this for awhile , so it's good to have a containment thread.
>>83825882
You're literally claiming it exists because you think it does, without any actual evidence of its existence.
>>83825819
>If you fly Hanna-Barbera people to Japan and they make an episode of Jetsons, it's not anime just because they produced it on Japanese soil. That's a completely absurd idea.
No, because then you have a closed off bubble within Japan making a cartoon that may as well be American.
If you were to fly Hanna Barbera people to Japan, have them live there, integrate into the culture, then have them make an episode of the Jetsons, you might have a better argument.
>Similarities in character design (both can be readily identified as anime/manga), same animation techniques, use of cinematic filmmaking techniques.
That falls apart when you realize that things like Inferno Cop are considered anime.
>What about it?
Astroboy is clearly a cartoon, just looking at the 1963 series. It is animated like a Disney cartoon, drawn like a Disney cartoon, yet it's not only considered anime, but one of the most important and influential anime of all time!
Not going to even bother with the rest of that because it's too retarded to even get into. Just know that, once again,you're taking the term too literally.
>>83825916
what is propaganda, you fucking retard
>200 posts in a Disk Wars OP
>thread hasn't been deleted yet
That's a first.
>>83826104
It still wouldn't be anime. Anime is a result of so many different factors that it's almost impossible for foreigners to make it.
>That falls apart when you realize that things like Inferno Cop are considered anime.
It's produced within the anime industry by anime professionals and has an anime mentality to it. Country Doctor seems like something that could be classified as Japanese animation, but not anime.
>Astroboy is clearly a cartoon, just looking at the 1963 series. It is animated like a Disney cartoon, drawn like a Disney cartoon, yet it's not only considered anime, but one of the most important and influential anime of all time!
Were you expecting anime to appear immediately, fully formed? Astro Boy was the first anime and the first real Japanese TV animation, and based on a manga that was ten years old by then.
Astro Boy was not animated like Disney and had barely any animation. They took every shortcut they possibly could to deal with the limitations of television production, and laid the foundations for the limited animation style of anime which is the the opposite of Disney. Astro Boy has similarities with cartoons, but it's presentation is much more cinematic. One of Tezuka's aims in creating his manga was to imitate cinema. Narratively Astro Boy is also different from cartoons.
Astro Boy established the animation style of anime, strongly influenced character design, made manga adaptations and character licensing industry standards, and set the precedent for low budgets.
>you're taking the term too literally
Then how should I take it?
>>83826131
Your posts.
>>83826395
>Your posts.
nice response, retard, thanks for admitting you're wrong
>>83826498
I did no such thing.
So where's your proof that pandering is real?
>>83826575
propaganda is literally pandering
>>83826649
What propaganda in which anime?
It also says a lot that you've had to retreat to talking about propaganda when normally it's sexual content that's accused of being pandering.
>>83825566
I know it exists but i dont care, because it panders me and i am fine with.
>>83826676
>What propaganda in which anime?
you're shifting the goalposts, retard
you said pandering is not a real phenomenon when it clearly is
>>83821430
Is that pic supposed to be Doctor Doom?
>>83826725
How am I shifting the goalposts? How is pandering clearly real?
>>83826741
because propaganda is pandering and propaganda exists
>>83824769
wow basic information on a character
>>83820122
Give em the old school Cap!
>>83826840
What propagand and in which anime?
>>83822195
kek
>>83826969
I'm not talking about anime retard
I'm talking about pandering as a phenomenon and it exists
>>83827024
>I'm not talking about anime retard
Then what are you doing here? We were talking about anime.
>>83827051
you were the one saying propaganda doesn't exist at all
>>83827097
I never said that. Stop hallucinating.
>>83827138
hey retard >>83825566
>>83827188
I said pandering in anime has never been proven to exist. What does that have to do with propaganda?
Are you high?
>>83823245
Nipples covered by smoke and mist only to be cleared up on blu-rays are clear pandering. They only exist to get people to buy the Blu-Ray.
What is this anime and where can I watch it?
>>83820122
Why do they need to call attack names in every fucking animu?
>>83827212
Japanese TV doesn't allow nipples, and most shows don't have nudity even on the BDs. It depends on the nature of the show.
Even if they feature censored nudity for the purpose of uncensoring it later, how is that pandering?
>>83822195
Utena is shit.
>>83827254
They don't.
>>83827255
It exists to boost Blu-Ray sales. It's only put in in order to appeal to people who want to see nipples.
>>83827282
How do you know the creators didn't like them too?
>>83827329
If that was the case they would air the anime on ATX, which allows nudity. >>83827255
is wrong, there have been several cases of shows being shown differently on different networks, one with nudity and one without. They blur stuff for the blu-rays, don't be retarded.
>>83824906
>has a suit of armor
>still wears a coat over it
fucking love this shit japan, keep doing it
>>83827453
I've very rarely seen TV anime with uncensored nudity.
>there have been several cases of shows being shown differently on different networks, one with nudity and one without. They blur stuff for the blu-rays, don't be retarded.
If the network won't allow nudity then how do you suggest they keep it uncensored?
>>83827564
Air it on ATX. Read the post.
>>83820029
Disk Wars is the best Marvel anime to ever happen, that no one ever watched.
Also its literally Digimon
>>83827586
I just told you have I've rarely seen TV anime with uncensored nudity, and it's not like ATX has limitless space.
There's nothing wrong with incentivising BD purchases anyway.
>>83827254
Shounen series that appeals to kids =/= Every anime
>>83827613
>>There's nothing wrong with incentivising BD purchases anyway.
I didn't say there's anything wrong with it, but incentives are literally pandering. You are literally catering to people's desires in order to sell a product.
>Yet another thread where people who don't know shit about anime make large general statements about anime
Every day with this board.
>>83827661
So virtually all entertainment is pandering, thus making the concept useless.
>>83827709
No, every piece of media doesn't directly appeal to a group of people in the way that some anime does.
>>83827746
What are these anime and how are they guilty of pandering?
>>83827786
I'm not going to sit here and go in circles with you. I already said that I was referring to anime that use mist/beams of light to block nipples for blu-ray. Strike Witches immediately comes to mind. If you're just going to repeat the same shit over and over I'm not going to have this conversation with you.
>>83827843
You're going in circles because the core of your argument is completely empty and you're fighting against a bogeyman.
>>83826913
A character that over half of all Marvel 'fans' wouldn't even know exists.
The best thing about Japanese Deadpool from Avengermon anime was his pronoun being "ore-chan". Fucking brilliant choice from the translator team.
>>83827673
/co/ is insecure in the anime image board so they need to get defensive all the time.
>>83827933
Here's your (you)
>>83826918
>HYPEEER CHARGING STAR!!!!
>>83822195
>American Tail
lolwut
I forgot those sequels existed
>>83822208
>pleasurably surprised
