Is /co really okay with minority/LGBT characters? Like when does it start to bug you?
And when does it feel like pandering?
Any favorite examples of non white/non straight characters
Ben Urich was good. I'd probably be less turned away from it if the PR departments for some of these are too busy trying to pat themselves on the back over it.
>"LOOK WE HAVE A BLACK IN OUR MOVIE!!"
>"What about him?"
>"HE'S BLAAAAAAAAAACK!"
>>83755451
When done like in pic related. If you're going to make Johnny black, there is no reason to not make Sue black unless you're afraid of an interracial romance or black female lead.
The problem with Black Johnny Storm is that it ripples into other characters, like what does that mean about white Susan Storm.
>>83755546
Yeah that's true. And this is coming from a black guy himself
Just let the work speak for itself.
>>83755565
Yeah aren't most movies all about interracial couples now?
>>83755451
It bothers me that people's argument against Heimdall was "The Norse called him the whitest god!" as if the comics ever followed the mythology or mentioned that...but not one single motherfucker could remember the BETTER argument: Heimdall is Sif's fucking brother.
>>83755565
>unless you're afraid of an interracial romance or black female lead.
or both
>>83755725
Just goes to show you who the true fans are :/
>>83755725
Supposidely not the case in the movies, it wouldn't be the biggest change between comics and movies.
I'm ok with it, I'd rather them not change existing characters, but it can be done right, like huntress from Grayson. Legacy characters are the best suit for introducing new minority characters. I think it's pandering when the only thing that defines a character is "Wow, a stronk Woman" or "Look how oppressed i am because of X, Y and Z"
>>83755451
It only bugs me when characters with a long history race or sexuality is changed.
>>83755451
I was pissed that they made Wally black, but that's more of me missing Wally than hating the new guy. Thanks Rebirth
And if the character is good, then I don't really care what color they are. Perfect example is Iris in the Flash. She's still hot, it's believable that Barry is in love with her, and it got Tumblr off of the CW's back. All-around win.
>when does it feel like pandering
When it's clumsily shoehorned in.
Take a character like Mister Terrific, Amanda Waller, or if we're talking gay characters, Midnighter - they're all great characters with a lot going on for them and people just don't care about their race or sexuality because of how awesome they are.
Then there are characters like black Wally, that were created for the sake of diversity, but the writers simply don't know what to do with them. They still can potentially become good characters, but they'll need something more significant than "he's black/he's gay" to do that.
>>83755778
This. I think that's what bothers me about Miles. He could be another cool Spider in that legacy, but all people can tell me about him is that he's Spiderman but black :/
>>83755451
He could have been fine as a young, cocksure, skirt-chasing thrill seeker if the movie wasn't dogshit.
>b-but muh body horror
Yeah, the guy who made fucking Chronicle is really going to make something worth a damn. Fucking Venture Bros did it better.
Also, fuck them for adopted Sue. Studio lacked balls and I'm glad that shit bombed.
Urich was great because he was a solid actor given a decent part. Still think the "old woman with dementia" is overplayed as fuck in MCU though.
It all depends on the performance. Black Jonny did not have good acting nor was there good writing or good anything in that film. Then there's BD Wong on Gotham and he has tons of character and even looks like the actual character.
>>83755725
"den hvide As" = The white Aesir - which meant "shining" or "light" and has nothing to do with race. He's not related to Sif in any way, he's older than most of the other gods, and not much is known about him - other than he has nine mothers, can hear the grass grow and see further than any living creature. Do read up on mythology.
>>83755873
This.
>>83755873
Ironically Black Wally might go from a bad example to a good one I think. Give him his own life with his own issues unique from White Wally could be good. He was cute in the Rebirth special and everyone interacting with Damian is great so I'm looking forward to that (praying the Titans curse doesn't claim them).
I don't give a shit as long as I get a good story out of it. The comics will change again soon enough anyway.
>>83755451
If you change a pre-existing character's ethnicity or sexuality then its a problem.
Creating a new character is fine...but if their entire identity is being black, gay, or whatever then what the fuck is the point? You didn't create a character you made a political cardboard cutout.
>>83755895
Heeeeeeeeeeeey. I liked Chronicle but yeah this movie was too focused on trying to be different that it failed at being just a movie. Really if it was the FF traveling in space, I'm sure that would've been a better movie.
>>83755451
At least Michael B Jordan escape from the aftermath of Trank's nightmare with Creed and was picked up by Marvel Studios.
That makes TWO Human Torches Marvel Studios saved.
>>83755451
>Is /co really okay with minority/LGBT characters?
No.
>>83755592
>Making a weird subplot about Sue being adopted rather than just casting a black actress
If you're gonna make the Storms black do it all the way.
>>83755451
Gay man here to make a line for everyone else still pissed at fucking Bendis turning Bobby/Iceman gay with psychic bullshit "awakening"
>>83756174
The thing is Michael only got the role because he was buddies with Trank. Pretty sure there not friends anymore after seeing him treat his cast members like shit.
>>83756132
I think he was always famous enough to get other roles. People still remember him from the Wire and Friday Night Lights.
>>83756207
He really should have just been bi if anything
>>83755891
Yep, they need to have something else going for them, like with the new huntress she's actually capable and I'm pretty sure they've not brought up the fact that she's a person of colour to give her some oppression points and make her seem better because of it.
When they race swap or have retuning or new minority characters they shouldn't advertise them as "Look at our new gay character, isn't he great, were so progressive" but they should do it as they did with midnighter, have it as a part of his character, but don't make all the villains homophobic or have his sexuality be his only defining trait. "This guy is like a batman with a supercomputer for a brain and isnt afraid to kill people, he's also gay"
>>83756207
That shit pissed me off, just make him bisexual, it's not going to hurt him, now all we get from him is "I'M GAY, I'M GAY, WHY DOES IT SUCK TO BE GAY, LOOK AT MY DIVERSE BLACK LOVE INTEREST, GAY GAY GAY!".
>>83756207
Did anything ever come of that?
I liked Static just fine.
>>83756253
Yeah I get you. Hopefully people learn the right way but I doubt it.
>>83756304
Static is the only "Black guy with electricity powers" I actually like.
>>83756304
A better Spiderman than Miles.
>>83756339
>not liking Black Vulcanin your pants.
>>83756252
>>83756287
Most people are bi or bi curious
There is so much shit given from Bendis, like god damn.
>>83756293
Yeah, more bullshit.
Also
>we will never know how Thor became unworthy from Nick Fury whispering sweet nothings into his ears
JUST TO REPLACE HIM WITH WHOR AS THEIR SJW PUPPET.
>>83756339
Same. Where is his reboot/continuation? I need more of him.
>>83755451
/co isn't representative of most/all fans, for starters. You're getting anonymous opinions and, at that, just the random opinions of whichever set of people happen to be on line at the moment.
With Johnny Storm as with Wally/Iris West/Jimmy Olsen, the main issue that most people bring up is making a character a different color and that doing so is just pandering.
People generally don't really have an issue with change (as female Starbuck proves and as Iris West on the Flash shows, where more people who have problems seem to have them due to her characterization, acting chops, etc., than skin color).
I think if they had made Reed, versus Johnny into an African American the uproar would have been different because you wouldn't have had the Johnny Sue shit storm as part of it.
>>83756389
OP here.
You bring up good points. I just genuinely like this board and don't know whether to take what it says seriously honestly, in regards to representation. So I was wondering if I was gonna get sincere thoughts. But I got answers I expected, all good.
Such as yours
>>83756389
The GA don't care because they have little to no concept of most characters, so if they make Iris black it doesn't matter, but make batman black and it does
>>83756458
>>83756389
Mostly the script leaks and the media that had some of /co/ "wake up" to the pandering bullshit.
And also ammo to prove that even ignoring the race/gender changes, the movie is shit.
See: Ghostbuster 2016
>>83755451
Black Wally West pissed me off because it completely changed the backstory. Wally was a carefree kid that had no problems in the world yet he still did his duties as kid flash. They turned him into a race stereotype of a fatherless black child in the hood.
At least white wally is back now
>>83756389
> where more people who have problems seem to have them due to her characterization, acting chops, etc., than skin color
This is really important. While there will be plenty of whining every time changing the ethnicity of a given character occurs, much of that whining dwindles away if the actor/writing really sells the idea. If there's a change but no effort is put into it or the actor is just subpar, that serves nobody.
>>83756496
>but make batman black and it does
I don't know about this. Asian Superman had a decent length series. You just have to get an actor with the right look and race doesn't matter.
>>83756526
>See: Ghostbuster 2016
I'm really looking forward to the shitstorm when that nonsense tanks.
>>83756572
The funny thing is that the second trailer while still crap is slightly better than the first.
>>83755451
>Like when does it start to bug you?
When the source material is changed.
>>83756572
Right? Its gamergate but with movies
"you are just a bigot"
"you are just some white women hater"
"I bet you vote trump"
Etc.
It bugs me when characters are played in tv shows and movies by actors of the wrong race.
Stop doing it.
>>83755546
FPBP
I can't even think of a gender/race-swapped character that I didn't like because of the switch, but every time they start talking about how progressive it all is it becomes annoying.
Don't spend your time telling me how girls can be cool, just make them cool.
This clip comes to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OSI-9fo_5o
Do it, don't make a big deal out of it.
>>83756118
There's no reason you cannot make a character who is a legacy character gay. If you can make Jonathan and Martha into living parents when Clark is Superman in the Bryne reboot (or make it that he was BORN on Earth in a Kryptonian matrix), then you can certainly tweak things about the character.
I think one problem as others have stated is the whole "gay" thing when BI is perfectly acceptable (probably more so with the younger audience that many comic book publishers want to reach).
Making Iceman Bobby into bisexual deals with all the historical woman the character has dated. The comic books already toy with making Beast gay and he's sometimes written that way, so making him BI isn't as problematic as making say Cyclops gay given his relationships with Emma and Jean, etc.
>>83756496
I'm not sure Iris isn't a key character, although more people probably known Linda/Barry as a couple than they know Iris as Barry longtime girlfriend/wife unless they are Silver Agers.
>>83755451
I really don't give a shit, every piece of entertainment is trying to pander to someone. A character being black or gay isn't inherently going to stop me from enjoying something.
>>83756565
Do you mean Dean Cain and the New Adventures of Lois & Clark? He's part Islander, not truly Asian, I believe.
>>83755451
I like Bat Woman, I like Maggie Sawyer. I wasn't crazy about them dating but it wasn't awful.
I really like Forge, and I'd like to see him pop up in more than "Q" like here's your special gadget that you will find useful for this particular mission cameos.
I never liked Static UNTIL I read the comics then the show kind of retroactively became pretty good to me.
Used to like Cage, but he's kind of falling off.
Danica is my favorite Flash but that might just be because she was never in enough to have really unlikable moments.
>>83755451
>when does it start to bug you?
When:
1) They take a long established character and warp him only to make him "progressive" and nothing else (instead of make a new character)
or
2) A diverse character is introduced and all the shit begin to gravitate around him/her/whatever and how his "diversity" is the biggest thing after sliced bread
I've never given a shit about it.
![The.Spectacular.Spider-Man.2008.S01E06.The.Invisible.Hand.720p.WEBRip.AAC2.0.H.264.mkv_snapshot_19.53_[2016.03.08_23.09.36].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eQFgqod.jpg "The.Spectacular.Spider-Man.2008.S01E06.The.Invisible.Hand.720p.WEBRip.AAC2.0.H.264.mkv_snapshot_19.53_[2016.03.08_23.09.36].jpg")
>>83755451
When they change iconic characters races clearly just to fill some quota, that's when I'll usually have a problem. If they're originally gay or lesbian or whatever, that's fine. Otherwise, either create a new character or search the lore and find them if you must. Spectacular Spider-Man handled that great in that every character was someone pulled straight from the comics.
Speaking of Spectacular, Liz Allan is one of the only race changes I've seen that didn't feel forced as hell. Maybe it's because she was still a good character and all the more iconic characters retained their classic looks.
Just posting Sif
>>83757031
Damnation and tarnation
>>83756766
Dude's birth name is Dean Tanaka. He's like half-Japanese.
>>83755680
The problem is, marketing directs viewership in movies pretty goddamn heavily, to the point that it can make a shitty movie churn money. "Letting the work speak for itself" gets arthouse films that are fucking great but largely ignored. On the other hand, marketing looking to push "diversity" as an end of itself winds up in the watered down crap we have now. There is no easy answer to anything in art, omae, because folks have crap taste.
>>83755725
To be fair, I think some it was folks who wanted the Heimdall from the Simonson run of Thor getting pissy that they just got Some Black Dude. Simonson's Heimdall was fucking dope.
>>83755873
To be fair, I'd actually be pissy if Midnighter was rebooted as straight, so I do suppose I care about his sexuality. That he's a hyperviolent gimp fetishist faggot superhero is fucking absolutely wonderful and no one can take that from me.
>>83756140
Is a simplistic little holier than thou cunt.
>>83756389
>/co isn't representative of most/all fans
Why are you so fuckin' sure of that notion?
>>83756572
I think a hell of a lot of folks are. Personally, I think it will be critically panned from hell to here, but it'll still turn a profit from hyperpolitical cunts going to suffer through it.
>>83756743
>There's no reason you cannot make a character who is a legacy character gay.
There is also no reason to. It reaks with shallow, poor attention begging.
>>83755451
The Falcon as written/drawn by Kirby. I actaully like him better than Cap in Madbomb especially.
I also like Lee/Kirby Black Panther.
I don't try to stay current- I just read what interests me so inclusion doesn't ever really piss me off.
>>83755451
>Is /co really okay with minority/LGBT characters?
I am. Can't speak for anyone else.
> Like when does it start to bug you?
It doesn't. Better to make stupid decisions striving to be more inclusive than make stupid decisions trying to exclude people.
>And when does it feel like pandering?
People who complain about "pandering" are usually just upset they're suddenly not the only ones being marketed to.
>>83755725
To be fair, we have NO idea how Asgardian genetics work. They could be like cats and have the potential for wide varieties of coloration within single families.
>>83755451
I'd be ok with racebends if there were to any other race but black. It's always white to black...where are the East/South Asians and Latinos?
Latinos are a larger percentage of the US population so shouldn't there be more of them than blacks?
>>83757199
>People who complain about "pandering" are usually just upset they're suddenly not the only ones being marketed to.
Or they're just sick of shitty fucking agenda focused writing, but go on with your fucked up hateful assumptions.Shit like that is why Trump will win.
>>83757234
It isn't always black but people just bitch about it more when its black
>>83757060
You're right, my bad - for some reason I thought he was Samoan:
"He is of French Canadian, Irish, Japanese, and Welsh descent"
>>83755451
I can't come up with any significant character, that I've read about. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but they seem to be swept under the rug pretty well.
I'm gay myself, so obviously I wouldn't mind a LGBT character, if the emphasis is on the >>CHARACTER<<. I don't need a gay character, if it's just a desperate marketing gimmick or if the character is somehow sugarcoated or ''protected''.
Also, if we talk about the big two, I want a new and authentic gay character. No, I don't want to give Cap a boyfriend, and I don't want the gay-ness and relationship drama to hijack any character.
Are gay people really so off-putting, /co/, that we can't have them? Also how would you want your gay? What's too much, and how would you insert some gay without it being too unbearable for you to read?
>>83757416
>I can't come up with any significant character, that I've read about.
Then you don't fucking read comics or watch cartoons.
>>83757444
>>83757416
To specify: Midnighter is a pretty old goddamn character that spent years plowing a Superman expy up the ass and is cooler than your faggot self could ever imagine.
>>83757360
wasn't there a massive bitching when that black guy from the runawaysturned out to be evil and died? I guess the black audience is just more vocal about having "representation" in comics
>>83757510
I'm black and the only bitching I saw about that was a shitposting thread here a few days ago.
I was mad at that reveal but only because Alex was my favorite and then he turned out to be a right bastard.
>>83755451
i just hate random changes to long lasting characters - alan scott annoyed the shit out of me. iceman, etc. just write a decent character, don't appropriate old ones. thats when it feels like pandering or forcing something.
the falcon is ok, but its weird having two 'caps'
does the falcon need to take that name to be equal?
The worst of all changes: changes because a little group of people who never gave a damn want it to change.
>>83757092
"isn't representative of most/all fans"
>Why are you so fuckin' sure of that notion?
Because /co is a website. If it were something everyone who posted on /co was forced to spend an hour each day on and to reply to posts they made or to threads, then it still wouldn't be representative in exactly the same way that voters in any election aren't representative.
Voters on any election day only represent a portion of registered voters for any particular locale. Registered voters only represent a portion of a population in any particular locale.
Likewise, let's say their are 100 million fans in the world interested in action films, cartoons, books and so forth featuring super-heroes. Let's say 90 million have internet access. Let's say half of them are on-line at the moment, so 45 million. Let's say 4chan is visited by 50 million people a day. Let's say /co is among the most popular boards on 4chan, so let's say some 12-15 million people are visiting it.
It still a fraction of what would be on line that would care. And even if all of them were on line and all of them were on /co (never even possible much less likely), casuals/GA account for 75% or more of most viewers for live action of this type and books of this type. The only case where the audience here might be more representative is purely in comic books themselves.
It's simple statistics, probability and math.
>>83757444
Yeah, I admit that I almost never watch cartoons, and I follow very limited amount of titles, and almost exclusively DC.
>>83755451
When it doesn't feel like it's being forced. Casually introducing a character who's black and gay in the story. Sure, I'm down for that. Announcing on Twitter about your new character and how excepting you are? Go fuck yourself. Also, same rules that apply for Mary Sues. Don't write them off ass. "OMG, LOOK AT HOW AWESOME I AM! GAY POWERS!" And people constantly bring up the fact that their a minority as something "super cool for the team." or "How brave of you." It pulls us out of the suspension of disbelief so much.
>>83757582
>How accepting you are*
>>83755451
Is ok changing when the character's race/sexual orientation doesn't mean shit on his history or development
Like black Kingpin, Nick Fury, Heimdall or Ben Urich
But you can't turn Jonny Storm black, the same way you can't turn T'challa or Sam Wilson or Luke Cage white
I mean, I would be ok with a black daredevil, but not a black Danny Rand
I would be ok with a white Monica Rambeau, but not a white Ororo
>>83757549
But that's good writing, innit? I'm crackerjack as they come and was torn up by that same reveal. Because Alex was fucking dope up until then.
>>83755451
Honestly, I don't really mind. A lot of my favorite heroes that were conceived/debuted in the 21st century are ethnic or sexual minorities.
The only thing that got me is that it seemed like a shitton of high profile superheroines were getting into relationships with black guys. Half Z-list black superheroes, half literal nobodies just introduced to be the love interest.
Like one or two, whoever, would've been fine, but there's a point where, and I hate to sound all /pol/faggy, but it comes off as fetishistic.
>>83757554
Alan Scott is the one I thought was fine because it made sense to me (why not fold in an element from his kid if his kid can't exist because of deaging?). Felt less like pandering at least and more like typical comic logic and newer characters influencing old ones. Similar to when they use stuff from Wally's run in the Flash TV show for Barry.
>>83757626
Oh it was a great reveal and I'd never claim otherwise.But Alex was mah nigga, you know?
>>83757573
This only proves that there's a fraction of fans responding, not that it's not representative. But feel fry to try again, bitch boy.
>>83757142
There's no reason you could not, for exampe, turn one of the Robins gay or bi. You're right, doing it to Bruce or Clark, would be problematic, although you didn't hear anyone scream when Morrison suggested that the Amazons in his Earth One book for Wondy were same sex lovers or that Diana had a girlfriend (although this had already been suggested way more subtly and slightly in the GA books). What most of the issue is is homophobia among male readers.
They could deal with Dinah being gay/bi or Star Girl say, but not Hal or Oliver (just as with all the problems with the Earth 2 Green Lantern).
>>83757416
Relationships are part of what makes a legacy character interesting. Alfred has an established fan base that like his interactions with Bruce and the Robins. That doesn't mean that they would support an on-going title featuring just his back story, but they would complain if all of sudden the Bat books were just ALL action and ALL crime-fighting sans Alfred, for just one example. Likewise, Clark with the Daily Planet stuff, Lois, Jimmy, etc.
You're right, I'm also gay and I wouldn't want DC to write a gay Bruce and Clark, unless it was done as say Earth 11 and a mini, but I've no problem with them saying, for example, that Damian is bi-sexual as they move forward with his characterizations.
All of these characters, from nearly every publisher no matter how indie, are straight because that's what their writers/artists know, that's who the predominant fan base was expecting when they were first written, and that was what was allowed when they were developed under the comics code, etc. etc.
Putting minorities or females or trans etc under the mask of a known hero is like telling em that their specific group is shit that nobody would read if they go on a Original/new character.
They must be shielded by a known IP cause minorities/women/etc are uninteresting/crap
Fuck, give em a new face and care for that new character, instead of "lets make hero A,B,C into a black/latino/muslim/gay/trans etc"
(yeah i know, a new IP is risky, while using a knwon IP is less risky monetary wise)
>>83757714
>bitch boy
by it's nature, it's not representative, asswipe boy.
Do you even know what fractions represent in math, or are you simple as idiotic and stupid as it appears?
>>83757739
>although you didn't hear anyone scream when Morrison suggested that the Amazons in his Earth One book for Wondy were same sex lovers or that Diana had a girlfriend
Maybe that's because right from the get-go Wonder Woman was a femdom sex fantasy that wasn't particularly discerning about the gender of her foes? Nah, that's too fucking subtle, it has to be MALE HOMOPHOBIA!
I literally do not care. Seeing people of other races do stuff on tv does not bother me in the slightest. /co/'s obsession with tumblr, on the other hand, got old fast.
>>83757741
>(yeah i know, a new IP is risky, while using a knwon IP is less risky monetary wise)
If you get it then what's the problem? It's a business, it's always been a business.
>>83755451
It doesn't really bug me because it is nothing new. It has happened already in the 90s, where characters were replaced with their more edgy counterparts. But guess what, eventually everything returned to status quo. The same thing is happening now, just with LGBT/minority counterparts. Mark my words, it will go away. Might take some time, but things will always come back to what they ought to be.
>>83757682
Alex was fucking everyone's goddamn nigga because he was playing everyone, including the reader.
I just can't get over how cool that character was, in the end.
>>83757852
yeah, but why pretend it is for the sake of being inclusive when its only for the dosh?
Hulkling and Wiccan aren't bad.
There's something about the ridiculousness of their situation juxtaposed against the normalcy of their relationship that works for me.
>>83757909
pretending to be inclusive is also part of making money
>>83757852
...Really, anon? "It's always been this way, so it's good"? And applied to your corporate masters, no less?
Jesus christ, if you don't have a direct monetary stake in Marvel's continued success, that's so retarded it hurts.
More bisexual characters who aren't defined by promiscuity pls, but anything as good as Midnighter's latest run will make me happy
>>83757929
What the fuck happened to hulkling? He looks like shit.
>>83758004
Isn't America Chavez bi?
I mean, she hasn't really done much yet, but the Ultimates storyline isn't terrible if you aren't super hung up on cosmic continuity
>>83758074
Nope. She's a lesbian straight out of the lesbian dimension.
>>83756207
Im not at all mad Bobby is gay, but the way they did it was awful. First of all.... could have made him bi. Second this day and age of internet buzz comic selling is terrible. Where shocking twists have to sell comics. They could have hinted at it and revealed it organically. It's Bendis and marvel though.....and yes that's bobby speaking off panel in pic related
>>83755451
I think it's great when there's characters of other races/creeds/sexualities/sexes/etc.
I just don't like it when they rebrand a character for the sole purpose of making them that. Can't you make an original character?
>>83758059
I was wondering the same thing. The artist's style is pretty cute overall, so it's weird how he couldn't do a better job with Hulkling.
>>83757615
What about Johnny Storm's history or development depends on being white?
>>83758310
New characters are a hard-sell, I totally get that. That's why they have to try out every possible twist and angle with the already existing folks, but they could always make a stellar new side character. Apparently that's hard too.
>>83758321
The notions of family and celebrity in the context of their classic stories, mostly. You *can* turn Johnny Storm black, but then you'd have to turn Sue Storm black. And that would have changed the social engineering dynamic from their origin story where Reed set them up as public science heroes.
It's quite possible, but it'd be a pain in the ass, for little benefit. Especially since I actively want a black Science Hero right outta fucking Inglewood.
>>83758436
There's risk in everything. But if you have a decent writer and a good artist, then you're all set.
>>83757660
that's the thing; why de age and change alan scott so much? married multiple times, has kids, but fuck it.
DC picked him because he's a green lantern and green lanterns are kinda popular, but let's not go with hal or john or kyle, that'd be too much!
He was used just to get some headlines for DC's new gay 52.
>>83758321
Being Sue Storm's brother.
>>83758613
That's not what happened. Robinson said he made him gay because his son was gay and erased. DC didn't make a big deal about it, it was only after Robinson mentioned in an interview did people freak out and that was because of the movie. Even Johns mentioned WB freaking out to confirm that they didn't change the character in the movie to gay last minute or something.
And everyone was deaged. That was the point. It was supposed to be stories in the vein of the original JSA stories where they were the young heroes and not the post-COIE stuff where they were older adults. Just didn't work out after Robinson left (well Abnett is doing a decent job but probably too late). They should have kept the older JSA on E0 too though, glad they're fixing it as well.
>>83755451
>Is /co really okay with minority/LGBT characters?
Yes
>Like when does it start to bug you?
When they change an established character to another race, gender or sexual orientation. Legacy is fine, I have never had a problem with Jaime becoming the Blue Beetle or Kamala. They are in fact some of my favorite characters. But shit like your pic is just "We need to have a black guy in this. Change Johnny Black and call anybody who complains a racist.
>>83758537
If nothing else we know for a fact that good stories DO NOT sell.
>>83755451
Fine with minority characters if it's believable and not forced. LGBT no unless they're villains.
>>83758728
Ain't that the truth.
>>83755873
>Then there are characters like black Wally, that were created for the sake of diversity, but the writers simply don't know what to do with them
A great Irony in this is that since White Wally came back Black Wally is also given more exposure by going over to Teen Titans as well as appearing in Flash
>>83756118
>.but if their entire identity is being black, gay, or whatever then what the fuck is the point? You didn't create a character you made a political cardboard cutout.
And this is why DC is better at handling diversity than Marvel. You could make Black Manta white and absolutely nothing would change. He isn't defined by his race, just his hatred for that faggot Aquaman
>>83756132
He was already saved by Creed. Creed is guaranteed to be better than the Black Panther movie
>>83758310
>I just don't like it when they rebrand a character for the sole purpose of making them that. Can't you make an original character?
I used to think like this, but then I realized they used to make a vast vast majority of characters white males. Lots of characters were made before the civil rights act was finalized.
When the whole "why didn't they make iron fist asian?" thing was going on, originally I sided with the idea he was white in the comics he should stay that way. Though I realized if you keep doing that, you end up with lots and lots of white male heroes. They were made in a time before you they tried to be diverse. Iron Fist should have been an asian character in the comics, but we're too racist then. Saying "traditionally they were white" is like saying "I miss when we were allowed to be racist"
Traditions have to be broken for progress to be made. Making nearly every single hero white was a mistake and when they do future adaptations they're allowed to fix that mistake.
>>83755451
yeah its bugging me alot
what a disrespect to the human torch
>>83758842
Iron Fist is still a terrible fucking example. Because his being white is a major part of his character
>>83756304
And Richie was A-OK too.
>>83758842
Is this a real opinion. I'm about to take the bait
>>83755451
I'm generally fine with it, until it reaches a point where I get the feeling I'm being preached at, and then I start hating it. This is a highly unscientific criterion and I don't know all the triggers myself, however:
Acceptable
>new characters of some minority that are entertaining on their own and don't take the place of an established character
Fucking shit
>any previously established character that gets racebent or outed
>any minority character that replaces a previously established character
>any character that spouts propaganda
>any character that appears to be there just to tick a box on a checklist
>any character that isn't entertaining
>>83758919
An old tired trope where the fabled white man is destined to instantly be better than all the trained asian students? No asian man can match the power of this amazing white man.
Its the perfect example of racism in origin.
>>83757337
>HatefulTriggered?
>>83758699
So in conclusion New 52 should've never happened.
>he made him gay because his son was gay and erased
That isn't a good reason. You could use "de-aging" for plenty of things...but for some reason Batman had all his kids, but Alan Scott didn't?
If they can't make a decent gay character without slapping it on an existing character with existing icons then hire new writers.
DC had a perfect chance to weave in interesting characters, and instead they did that. It's boring and lazy.
>>83758842
You sound like you don't understand Iron Fist's character at all, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that he "should be asian". Why should he be asian? Because of kung-fu?
Also, the answer to that problem is to make original, good characters who are diverse. Unfortunately no one seems to be able to do that, they can barely do well by the characters the previous generation gave them as it is.
>>83758982
You might be on the wrong website
>>83759022
>Why should he be asian? Because of kung-fu?
somehow these arguments are used all the time, but aren't considered racist. The fucking double-think
But Hoosiers is probably racist now so whatever
>>83758982
Here's your (You)
>>83758982
Yeah I'm not taking this b8
>>83759003
I think it's a good reason. It wasn't really about making a gay character as much as it was keeping a connection fans were familiar with in that family.
But also the fact that it's a different universe and shouldn't prevent a straight Alan Scott from existing in the main universe probably makes the difference here anyway. It's not really a character change to me in the same sense like how Earth One stuff doesn't really matter either since it doesn't affect anything outside of that.
>>83759003
>but for some reason Batman had all his kids, but Alan Scott didn't?
To be fair Alan Scott is on Earth 2.
>>83759059
Oh I don't think I'll be changing anyone's mind and am fully aware of the attitudes here. Every here is going to want "tradition" and "doesn't see race" and so on. Meaning they don't see the issues either. They'll be stuck in their ways and not see that it comes from bigotry of 40 years ago.
I only get annoyed when white people start preaching at me, as if I'm supposed to be thankful whenever a black guy or white chick is pushed. When compared to old writers who just forget non-whites exist, I find it more offensive when people treat all minorities as if we're interchangeable, then expect us to be thankful that some black dude or white chick is representing "people like me."
>>83759177
>But also the fact that it's a different universe and shouldn't prevent a straight Alan Scott from existing in the main universe probably makes the difference here anyway
Straight Alan still exists. We're just waiting for Johnny Thunder to unfuck the JSA
>>83759196
>The kung fu guy should be Asian
>I'm not the racist, I swear
Go away racist
>>83759251
>no one should be asian
>every should be white
Who's the racist?
>>83759308
You.
I'd rather have a Latino Iron Fist. I get my representation, you get to avoid having another white or kung fu asian.
>>83759208
Right? Like how many Indian super heroes are there? (India-Indian......) People will chime in like "India is Asian" as if that's the same.
I remember digging one day figuring surely X-men made one, they have one from like every part of the world. Then I find Neal Shaara who is Thunderbird..... the same code name as the native american x-men.....
I was like.... WTF? and then just got sad, so stupid.
>>83759542
Really the only important part is he is 1) from wealth and 2) a complete outsider in K'un Lun.
>>83755451
They should have made Ben black (or Hispanic) or made both siblings black. Mr. Storm is black, why is Sue not.
Ben's origin story would make more sense if he was black or Hispanic. How many Jewish street gangs still exist in New York.
Also, stop it with the Doom and Galactus. FF has more villains to use. Fucking Skrulls people. Fucking Skrulls.
>>83760185
So he could be Oprah's secret, illegitimate son perhaps?
>>83760185
Yeah, there are tons of fun things you could do with a wealthy, non-white/asian guy who becomes Iron Fist.
>>83755451
How often do we need to have this fucking thread already?
Don't read/watch what you don't want to, there problem solved.
>b-but muh
Just stop fucking reading/watching.
>>83755451
>Is /co really okay with minority/LGBT characters?
Yes.
Like when does it start to bug you?
>And when does it feel like pandering?
When they're legacy heroes stealing the identity or title of existing characters, instead of new characters.
Storm is awesome. Miles Morales is not.
>>83760393
>Ignoring political propaganda and the ruination of characters you like for years to come makes it go away.
That shit didn't work from 2010 to 2015, desu senpai. Not gonna pretend it works afterwards. But go on, keep guzzling dick and pretending it tastes great, I ain't gonna stop you.
>>83759589
Lmao poo in loo pajeet, nobody wants a street shitting superhero
>>83756174
No, because people don't pay money to look at black women. also, if they have 1 black guy on the poster they look like a white movie that's "Progressive", while if they have 2 black people, a white guy, and a CGI rock, they look like a black movie.
>>83759589
>yfw
>>83760560
If Sue was going to be adopted anything but white could have worked too. White people love that exotic foreign girl shit.
>>83755451
>Any favorite examples of non white/non straight characters
Why does it have to be so specific?
Do they have to be in a wheel chair and transgendered too?
>>83755451
Its genuinely weird and gross when characters are changed skin color, sexuality, or gender to allegedly be more progressive.
Its like saying a black character cant be successful unless he takes over a more famous white character's position, or a female character cant be good unless she takes over a male's position, etc etc etc.
What does that say for current and interesting characters like Luke, Rhodey, Bishop, Songbird, Domino, Boom Boom, Valkyrie, and such who are skipped over and forgotten about just to make a minority out of a white (male) character?
We've basically sent the message that minorities/women cant be successful unless they borrow/steal the power of powerful white men.
>>83759589
I'm Maori. I have literally no heroes who "Represent" me. My favorite Superhero is Batman (Pleb taste I know) and he's as far removed from me as you can get
>>83760767
I don't like the "progressive" argument but
>We've basically sent the message that minorities/women cant be successful unless they borrow/steal the power of powerful white men.
Financially this is generally true. Luke is the only character you listed who might be able to support his own title. The progressive argument didn't do anything there that the market hasn't already shown.
>>83760472
Ther's no "working" or "going away", don't you get it?
You don't like it, you don't read it. I don't like it, I don't read it, I don't shit the whole fucking board with threads bitching about it. And when I say "it" I mean current Marvel comics. They're trash, so I don't read them and I find fucking something else to do with my life.
That's it, there's nothing more to it. I never meant you'd get your version back for ignoring the new version, it doesn't work that way, but goddamn at maybe if you diversified your interests you'd find something better to do than bitching about comics you haven't like in half a damn decade.
Go fuck your mom, you huge fairy, or go complain about how media you don't like doesn't cater to you on tumblr with all the other pathetic deluded Marvel fans. You're not doing anything with these shitty threads, anything. You're not red pilling anyone and bitching sure as shit never made Marvel bend to your will before.
That didn't work for half a decade either, can't you figure that out?
>>83760767
>We've basically sent the message that minorities/women cant be successful unless they borrow/steal the power of powerful white men.
That's kind of the point. It has very little to do with diversity and more to do with getting in the craw of the white male comic book fan. It's their "Ha we got you and now you have to deal with it" prank of sorts.
It's also Marvel/DC way to staying relevant. Marvel is owned by Disney who can easily make such a change a headline and passed around via ABC. I'm sure the WB has some media connections too.
>>83760890
Well yeah, the market's always been dumb, and good books rarely ever sell well, while great books die instantly. We have few chances to get decent, non-white characters, because by and large any good story introducing new characters would sell like shit.
>>83760890
I guess you could also attribute it to the fact that people are generally less creative these days.
When was the last time we had a new character that had the staying power of superman, batman, spider-man, or wolverine?
>>83761001
Sadly it's probably Harley
>>83755451
>Is /co really okay with minority/LGBT characters? Like when does it start to bug you?
Personally I realy couldn't care less about minorityu/LGBT characters, it really doesn't bother me
It's how they handle it that pisses me off, they seem to think they need to shove it down our throat going LOOK AT THIS, READ OUR BOOK, I don't need to be reminder every 10 pages "oop lesbian, yay" or have a gay wedding thrown into spider-man to show that the writers are open minded, if the character is gay they're gay, and thats fine move on.
But the character changes are something that really bother me, Mar-vell is captain marvel, Peter Parker is Spider-man, Logan is Wolverine, Steve is Capt America, Not Carol, Not Laura, and certainly not Sam, Thor is the damn guys name, you can't make it a title cause you need to satisfy an agenda.
Yes creating new heroes is hard, especially when most of the heroes in movies, the element that draws most casuals in, are white. but having two of every god damn hero is just ridiculous.
>>83755819
>it got Tumblr off CW's back
No it didn't. They like Flash though. It's Arrow and The 100 they have issues with, especially when Black Canary died.
>>83755895
what did venture bros do for Fantastic Four?
>>83761001
Just for reference
>Superman
1938
>Batman
1939
>Spider-Man
1962
>Wolverine
1971
>Harley Quinn
1992
Others from the 90s: Static, Deadpool, Cable, but I don't think they're iconic. Spawn is irrelevant now, Hellboy isn't really cape
>>83761383
Here's a neat chart of superhero debuts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superhero_debuts#Comic_book_7
>>83756526
>>83756572
>>83757092
>>83756634
>>83756600
The Ghostbusters movie is going to be shit for its own reasons, but you can't deny a bunch of people just hate it because it has women.
>>83761383
So look at it this way, since 2000 has there been any comic character that has really made an impact in 'normal' society- the kind of character that a non-comic fan would recognize from TV, movies, action figures, video games etc?
>>83761695
Probably Kick-Ass, ironically
>>83761695
Rick Grimes, or Michonne and that pains me incredibly to say...
If they aren't white, it bothers me. White people make up like 90% of the united states, where comics are made. Literally all minoritiy races (MINORITY) is pandering in comics.
>>83761695
Of capes, I'm guessing Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle and X-23 have the best shot of all the 2000s characters, but they're definitely not there yet.
>>83761695
Nope. I feel like Runaways could've mattered if they... mattered at all. They were pretty cool but I guess they kind of lagged out and then they just slapped them onto something else.
>>83761903
I feel like anything we come up with will be like X-23 or Mile Morales where its drawn directly from another big hero. Like Red Hulk or Agent Venom and so on. They dont make original sodas or anything these days, it's all variations of an old one to sell it.
>>83762214
Every time a new, decent idea is tested out, it flounders next to all the events and A list characters' sales. I understand why trying to use old brands for new characters is a thing, even if I'd rather the good stories sell.
I'm not bugged by any characters in particular but there's a trend in books meant for women or younger people where they have to have a gay friend or a gay couple. It HAS to. It's almost formulaic.
It makes sense in cape comics that these heroes are going to be diverse because of the random nature of powers, but then you have the last iteration of Young Avengers where they were up to 2 gays and a guy that was turned bi in the comic so he could be a homewrecker.
At the moment I can only think of Kamala not having this but they might be too busy with Islam as their pet issue. I'd almost like to see them try to tackle Muslim homophobia. Maybe that's why they're keeping away from it.
>>83761656
You can't deny people hate other movies because of men. It's pretty easy to make such a statement about anything because somewhere someone exists to confirm it.
