I feel like Damian and the Jason are so similar in their personalities they might as well be the same character.
>Damian raised under bruce slowly becomes less edgy, is later kidnapped by the Joker and beat to death with a crowbar. Talia or another League of Assassins member retrieves his corpse, reviving him, but leaving his mind and memories severely scarred. Vengeful and full of abandonment issues, he assumes the name Jason Todd and later calls himself the Red Hood.
Same with Tim Drake and Grayson. Drake's not interesting enough of a character on his own unless you thrust him 50 years into the future. It just feels like too much to have two similar-ish Robins exist in the same world, so why not take all of the interesting personality traits of Drake and give them to Grayson.
I can get Bruce having 2 Robins and Barbara in a story, but 4 just seems like overkill.
>>83726670
Hell yes there are.
And I can hardly tell any of the fuckers apart unless I'm explicitly told which ones which.
But it's Batman which means more characters equals more spinoff potential and therefor more money.
no it's fine
>>83726670
I'd be okay if they went off and did their own unique things, but DC and fans are determined to keep them all in Gotham and interacting with each other and stepping on its others toes.
No point in Dick, Jason, and Tim being grown up Robin in the same room as each other since writers will just reduce them to one trait.
I feel like it sort of worked until Tim. It was sort of a natural progression, Dick was the one Bruce did right, Jason was the was he failed, Tim was the one who redeemed him and set the dynamic back on track.
Jason returning and Damian coming in sort of throw that out wack. I like Damian, but I think the best thing they could do with him would be to call him Flamebird or something and stick him as Dick's partner permanently. An already dour Batman with an even edgier, borderline psychotic Robin doesn't really work for me. Which is why Tom King bringing Tim back as the Robin gets all the props.
Batwoman is the most useless, I say. She adds nothing besides getting angry when people call her part of the batfam, even though SHE'S DRESSED LIKE BATMAN
>>83727106
Oh right, and Jason Todd can just fuck off.
>>83726670
>I feel like Damian and the Jason are so similar in their personalities they might as well be the same character.
Stopped reading there. You need to start reading comics before commenting on them.
>>83726670
Grayson is the first son, the most acrobatic and lighthearted of the bunch. Suave ladykiller
Jason is the fallen son, he was ultimately a disappointment but now tries to make a new name for himself. He's more violent and edgy than the rest.
His story is still ongoing and he's still got character arcs to go through.
Tim is the smartest of the bunch. A true detective and technology expert. He's currently being mishandled.
Damian is the true heir to the mantle. His arc is still ongoing and his final personalty is out there to be truly defined.
He's the most arrogant of the bunch even though he's constantly defeated. Has allusions of grandeour and still has trouble lightening up sometimes.
>>83726670
Time Drake is the only odd man out, as he doesn't really serve a purpose. Jason and Damian are different. If you want to boil them down to the basics, Jason is angsty and hotheaded while Damian is haughty and quick-witted.
It really bothers me that there is no clear cut from Damian to Duke. DC should've used the issues of Damian's solo after Gleason left to tell the story of Damian's separation from his dad.
>>83726670
I think at this point they should just go full TDKR and make batman the leader of a vigilante movement.
The Robins are his lieutenants. They can recruit and train more without Bruce's direct oversight.
You could a metric fuck-ton of story-line mileage out of an underground bat-army.
>>83727362
We Are Robins
>>83726670
>I feel like Damian and the Jason are so similar in their personalities they might as well be the same character.
What comics have you read?
>>83726670
>Are there too many Robins?
Uh, yeah. Even Dick Grayson was one too many. The Batfamily was a mistake.
>>83727362
That would make more sense. If Bruce reluctantly or enthusiastically became the leader of a chaotic-good vigilante movement/Sons of Batman, which just happened to include 3 boys (Dick, Drake, and Jason) orphaned by the unrelenting violent crime in Gotham ------who Bruce would train and eventually faux-parent alongside the rest of his group------it would make more sense than stories where Batman has adopted 4 Robins over the course of a few years.
>>83727233
The only thing they have in common was their connections to Ra and both being whiny bitches
>>83727396
But wasn't that Alfred's doing ?
>>83726670
Doesn't matter cause every Batgirl is superior to every robin
The Batfam is too fucking big, they need to get rid of at least half of them
>>83727106
>Which is why Tom King bringing Tim back as the Robin gets all the props.
Wait, reallly?
>>83730926
It is - it's literally too big to sell books about Batman, by far the easiest character for DC to sell. The additions of Duke, Harper, etc. only exacerbate it - I assume Scott Snyder was given free reign to introduce these OCs but someone in editorial ought to have clamped down on it (or been able to) because it just pushes it to the limit.
Even up to Damian and Kate Kane it's pretty workable - Batman can be the worldwide Batman w/ Robin Tim, Dick can be the Batman of Gotham w/ Damian, Jason does his own shit, Batwoman can specialise in the supernatural, Batgirl can roll with the Birds of Prey. You can give everyone a niche, but you've gotta stop adding more of them. Cass - I don't know, you could sub out Flamebird and have her with Kate or have her head up the Outsiders maybe.
Despite the character radiating edge I like Damian the most. The ongoing animating movies with him and Bruce are pretty alright.
It also helps that in those stories Dick is already an adult and usually in his own affairs, and Batwoman is also doing her own thing.
Those movies don't feel cluttered.
>>83731224
This. Like Barbara Gordon----either she becomes Oracle and eventually moves on with her life, or she doesn't get shot and eventually grows out of the role. It feels weird when stories feature almost all of the batfam all operating out if Gotham at once.
>>83730926
They did that until they brought them back after fans screamed and cried and people introduced more
Damian and Jason are really nothing alike. Jason really should just be a fucking villain though, his anti-hero crap is so stupid.
I like that Duke is not going to be Robin in the traditional way, you really can't go anywhere better with a Robin than Batman's actual blood son, unless you go with a fucking robot and that's been done with the Toy Wonder.
>>83731122
He's still "Red Robin" but he'll actually be working with Batman again instead of fucking off to be mischaracterized with the Titans in a shitty costume.
>>83732895
Well that is some actual good news.
First they bring back Wally and now they're maybe unfucking Tim.Now all I need is for them to fix Bart and I'll be mostly happy.
>>83732957
He's going be in 'Tec writing by Tynion so don't get your hopes up
>>83732957
>fix Bart
with the original Wally back, new Wally becoming Kid Flash, and the Justice Society probably coming together again, which would mean having Jay Garrick back?
sadly, I don't think they'll deal with Bart for while
>all the girls have different hair color and styles
>all the men have the same cut and color
for what purpose?
>>83735238
Batman has a type.
>>83726670
Damien is WAY too tall in that picture.
>>83727106
I'd actually like it if Damien became Dick's partner and Batman didn't have a sidekick, but he was still effectively in charge of the whole Bat family.
Like it feels to me that Batman and Robin as a dynamic is kind of over, but a Nightwing and Robin series could totally work especially when one considers Dickbats and Robin.
Also, can they please just retcon Tim out of the universe? Or kill that dumb fucking Mary Sue; I'd really like that. Thanks.
Damien a shit.
>>83735238
Technically Jason dyed his hair from red to black to look more like Dick in a way to please Bruce.
Though that is pre-Crisis continuity.
>>83735582
He even made Jason dye his hair black
>>83735967
No, that's a retcon. Originally, people didn't really give a damn, and his hair color was done inconsistently.
>>83736062
Grant pls go
>>83726670
I like the idea of Batman as an army. But it would work a billion times better if they had their own separate universe to fuck around in. I mean, in one comic Bats is confounded by a clown, a deranged lawyer and a chemist, then he shows up in Justice League and outsmarts actual gods. Just pick up all the Batman-centric stuff, and drop it in it's own world with no League, no Superman, no aliens, a world where Batman can actually be a badass, and not merely a memetic one. It's hard to go, "Oh no, Joker!" when the world also contains Zoom.
>>83736288
>Originally, people didn't really give a damn, and his hair color was done inconsistently.
So it's a sensible retcon then. As most teenage boys don't randomly have different hair colours.
They honestly need more robins and other bat-entities. It's the only thing that sells.
>>83736769
That's kind of what's cool about Batman though. He lives in this world where he's just a dude, and most of his enemies are also just dudes. And those enemies cause a bigger headache to Batman than aliens and gods.
Batman shows the triumph of the human spirit for both good and evil.
>>83737276
It's fine for Batman, but it's so inconsistent, putting him in the general DC universe makes his villains look like bad jokes. Psychos with a gimmick are simply not intimidating compared to actual supervillains.
>>83735867
Fuck you I didn't know I wanted a Nightwing and Robin series until now.
>>83737451
Also it works so well.
>Batman
Leader of the Justice League
>Nightwing
Leader of the Titans
>Robin (Damien)
Leader of the Teen Titans
Jason a shit.
>>83737413
But the point of Batman's villains is that they are the triumph of the human spirit for evil; while Batman (and the Bat family) are the triumph of the human spirit for good.
>>83735867
That's only because Morrison the hack inverted the dynamic between the two.
Damian is the serious one and Dick is the smartass, of course it's clunky when you have two serious characters togheter.
>>83737526
>Batman
>Leader of the Justice League
Haaaaaaaaa no.
>>83737549
And that's great, but they don't need to be in the same world as Zoom, Circe and Atrocitus to do that. The existence of characters like that makes Joker harmless by comparison. "Oh, Joker is going to blow up a bridge with a hundred people on it? Yeah, this is a world that stopped the Anti-Monitor from ending the universe, I THINK WE GOT IT HANDLED." They're literally nothing.
>>83726670
Tim Drake has no personality, he's just Robin. .. Nightwing is easy to market I guess and Damian had the appeal of being Batman's biological son.
Tim will always be Robin 2.0, the fill in. Nobody liked Jason as Robin, but after his revival and even today is popular. Look at how much people hate Red Hood and the outlaws,
Why the fuck is Jason part of the family? It kills me that every time we have a Batfamily story, he is part of it.
>>83726670
Nightwing has the appeal of being the first Robin
Damian has the appeal of being Batman's biological son...
Tim and Jason essentially have nothing...
>>83726670
Tim was so plain I wouldn't call him vanilla, he was like shaved ice.
>>83726670
jason is simply a highly unnecessary character, like tim drake. save for under the red hood, he has no story potential, which has always been his main problem as a character. yes, he was absolutely amazing in under the red hood, but that's it; it was the only storyline he ever was good in. just like tim, jason too is being fazed out, due to being inadequate.
Gotham is DC's own X-Men. It needs it's own setting apart from the main DC continuity. Batman's rogue galleries is way more interesting than the rest of DC "heroes" anyways.
>>83726670
Well Jason was never good characther until he become Red Hood, yes his death gave lot of deveploment but to other characthers and he has characther in refrigerator. Tim is differente case, he is good characther but he is kind like Young version of Batman. Dick Grayson is original Robin so there kind nostagic vallue on him. Even Batgirl is worst since all version Batgirl are only Barbara Gordon so far.
Perfect Batfamily here:
Bruce, obviously
Dick as Nightwing and the successful Robin
Jason as the failed one
Damian as the natural son
Alfred
1 Batgirl at best
Stop.
>>83726670
There were periods throughout Batman's history where he operated alone (now Damian is that guy) Bruce and Damian hardly ever act as Dynamic Duo, even in "Batman and Robin" Damian was mostly working alone, and in most other Batman titles Damian hardly ever appears.
>>83737730
>1 Batgirl at best
And we all know who that should be.
>>83727204
>>83737546
>>83737627
>>83737640
>>83737644
>>83737685
>>83737712
>Always get overshadowed by Dick
>Opposite of Dick in every way, like
>Everyone hates him (character wise and reader wise)
>Not a chick magnet (even Tim can get more girls than him, hell, even Damian already attracted chick more than Jason)
>Bruce likes him the least
>Stuck with the worst writer (Fuck lodbell)
>Have been dead, and everyone prefer if he just die permanently
>Another Robin also died but that robin got better treatment than him
>Always get rekt by Damian
>Most cast he's been with mostly was just used Dick's friends
He's my most favorite and one of the reason was because he's the most unfortunate character I have read. Everyday I pray he got better treatment, and still hoping it will come soon.
I just want more Cass Cain as Batgirl.
STOP SHITTING ON HER DCucks!
>>83737526
>Damien Leader of the Teen Titans?
What? Tim Drake is the Leader of the Teen Titans. You can give Damian Young Justice
>>83737526
>>Robin (Damien)
>Leader of the Teen Titans
I have thus far disliked Damien everytime he's not in a Batfamily book, and this being thing in Rebirth has given me no hope along with the idiotic premise.
>>83739493
i get it that people don't like Jason, and I definitely get why people hate what Lobdell did to his character,
>>83739784
I like the Black Bat costume a lot, especially that one.
>>83726670
>Jason Todd
I hate now that he is alive. Liked him dead because he was the one clear failling Batman had. it gave Batman a reminder that what he does is never going to be mess free.also it gave Joker a very personal act to taunt batman about. in effect the joker killed batman's "sRobin".
>>83726670
the difference between damian and jason is jason is viewed by batman as someone he failed, someone who went wrong, while damian is his son
>>83737551
>I like thing
>Only because Morrison the hack did something new
Go to bed Alan
>>83739973
but it's not new, he just swapped things
>>83726670
It is. Every new writer wants to put their stamp on Batman and that usually involves their OC Donut Steel. Then you get fans of those characters as writers a few years later, and they switch back. Now we've got seventeen Robins and nine Batgirls and DC doesn't give a fuck.
Batman should be divided into different books and the characters spread out. Gotham is too crowded as it is and these books loose all tension when you know that the cavalry is just a Bat-mergency signal away.
Batman - Does Batman things. Solves crimes, punches bad guys. No more Joker shit. No more overshadowing every other fucking character because he's the goddamn Batman.
Batwoman - Kate can have her own shit separate from everyone else. Also a solo book; no Bruce whatsoever.
Nightwing & Robin - Since Damien is alive, he's getting paired with Dick again. They were always the best. Possibly out of town. Los Angeles? San Francisco? Gateway City?
Red Hood - Leaves the country entirely, spends his time in the third-world (Africa? Latin America?) bringing justice to drug kingpins and warlords one bullet at a time.
Tim, Steph, Cass (Batman Inc.? Bat-Trio?) - Solving mysteries and fighting international crime syndicates (Triads, Bratva, Mafia, et al). "Red Robin" is a stupid name; Tim needs a new one.
Batgirl - I really want Babs out of Gotham, and if Dick leaves, then they go together. Not as a couple (yet), but I want them to occasionally work together. If she's out west, Dinah can visit more often.
>>83726670
its like this:
>Get good, boy scout, borderline gay Richard Grayson
>Leaves to join Teen Titans, becomes own hero
>Get bad boy, edgy, "I play by my own rules" Jason Todd
>DIES
>Get good, junior detective, conserved Tim Drake
>Joins Young Justice/Teen Titans, becomes own hero
>Get Cynical little shit, not as edgy as Jason, "Most Bruce like" Damian Wanye
>Dies
By the end of the entirety of Batman, new Robins are either gonna be a "Dick" or a "Todd"
>>83730875
nice bait.
FACT: Babs was only ever good as Oracle
FACT: Cass will never be written well ever again
FACT: kys
>>83726670
>Are there too many Robins?
Absolutely. It's fucking ridiculous that there are four currently active ones, not counting the rabble in We Are Robin.
There was not meant to be this many. Tim was only created because Jason was thought to be permanently dead. Damian was only created because Morrison intended him to die and stay dead. But both of those deaths were undone, and now Bruce Wayne has a whole harem of schoolboys that DC doesn't know what the fuck to do with. It's a problem.
>>83740726
>FACT: Cass will never be written well ever again
This hurts my soul, Cass Cain was a cool character that got shafted by the DC for some reason, she would be perfect in the Arkham games.
>>83742513
I have always been unironically of the opinion that Cass during Puckett era was the actual best female character in the whole company. Her sales support this claim. The problem is that they let writers other than Puckett use her. Cassandra Cain, it turns out, is an incredibly tricky character to write properly.
>>83742609
Yes I agree. She's a character only a few have had a good grasp of. Puckett was one. Peterson another. Dixon.. eh yes and no.
>>83726670
there's a black robin now.
>>83743302
And his costume looks like he's trying to start Shota Sentai Robinger.
that's because Jason is inherently shit regardless if writer
>>83743673
>Always get overshadowed by Dick
>Opposite of Dick in every way, like
>Everyone hates him (character wise and reader wise)
>Not a chick magnet (even Tim can get more girls than him, hell, even Damian already attracted chick more than Jason)
>Bruce likes him the least
>Stuck with the worst writer (Fuck lodbell)
>Have been dead, and everyone prefer if he just die permanently
>Another Robin also died but that robin got better treatment than him
>Always get rekt by Damian
>Most cast he's been with mostly was just used Dick's friends
He's my most favorite and one of the reason was because he's the most unfortunate character I have read. Everyday I pray he got better treatment, and still hoping it will come soon.
>>83737593
"AND VEGITA IS SO STRONG...WHO CARES ABOUT OTHER VILLAINS"
Go watch dbz for your power level bullshit
Why does Bruce even let Jason wear the bat symbol when he straight up kills people
Son > Ladies Man >Brainiac > Killer > Girl > Dyke >Nigger
Man, Damianfags hate Tim.
>>83743965
Pretty sure damianfag hate everyone except damian itself
>>83726771
Dick Grayson> Isn't robin
Jason Todd>Isn't robin
Tim Drake
Damian Wayne
You can't remember four names? Are you literally retarded ?
>>83737565
uhh yeah he is?
>>83737730
so..like OP's pic?
>>83744047
And Dick.
>>83744479
OP pic had Tim. He's a pest.
>>83743507
Damian sucks and should be retconned away. Hate him.
Ideal Batfam:
>Batman (Dick)
>Alfred
>Batgirl (Cassandra)
>Robin (Damian)
Doing their own thing:
>Oracle (Babs)
>Red Robin (Tim)
>Spoiler (Steph)
Dead:
>Bruce
>Jason
>>83745042
why
>>83745042
This.
FUCK DAMIEN.
>>83726670
>are there too many robins?
yes
to late to stop it now though
even more irking they all look alike
like theres no such thing as a different hair color or type for the boys
>>83744084
They're all a bunch of samey looking white kids with black hair and a domino mask who at one time or another all wore the same outfit and hung around the same older guy who they all had the same kind of relationship with.
You can get into semantics all you want, but to me all of those kids are the same fucking guy
>>83739493
>"Oh no my horribly written comic book that even most of my fans hate still somehow manages to average enough readers that DC have no plans to cancel it".
>>83746524
I don't know why you posted that. But know that I only reply to the
"Jason is shit" with no argument fags.
>>83746601
Who said I think he's shit? I like him, my point is that he can sustain an ongoing despite everything being against him. There are tons of characters in worse positions than that, even in the Batfamily.
>>83746726
my post before isn't replying to you though.
