How come the Bruce Wayne persona and voice disappeared when the art style changed to match Superman TAS and he became more of a jerk overall?
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>>83674591
Because it was through the eyes of Superman.
>>83674591
they can't write complex characters so they reduce each character to some basic trait
it's the same with the batfamily, when they are all togheter you have Bruce as the asshole. Tim as the smart one, Jason as the angry one and Dick as the nice one.
then you have stories where Bruce is alone and is a more stable human with nice moment and caring about others
He got a better tailor, and like all good suits, it made him a better man.
>>83674639
So Superman sees people a weirder versions of themselves with less detail?
>>83674616
Ha, I did the same thing.
Batman and Character Designs IMO
TAS>Justice League/Beyond>TNBA
>>83674591
batman is a cunt
>>83674794
I pretty much agree with that, except I can't decide which Joker I like better. JL or TAS. Definitely not New Animated. I think I'd choose JLU, but the clue face and lack of red in the lips bother me a bit.
>>83674591
Sort of unrelated, but it's kind of interesting how some of the VAs from the show have evolved their interpretations of the characters. Conroy has gone more stern. And Hamill has definitely gotten raspier. I don't know if it's by choice or just him getting older.
>>83674974
>Hamill has definitely gotten raspier
Playing the Arkham games you definitely notice this.
>>83674591
I feel so bad for BTAS Bruce. He started out stern, but got along great with Alfred and Robin, and actually enjoyed the playboy facade.
Then as he got older, the writers made him more and more of a douche, to the point where he stops being involved with the League and anyone romantically, and his whole ideology crumbles just to save his own life.
>>83675219
I like to think Beyond is a possible future and not set in stone.
Yeah. The redesigns sucked.
The version of Bruce Wayne earlier in the series was the perfect blend of dark and light. When The New Batman Adventures started, it was all dark with little humanity. He was almost robotic.
>>83674591
How come the Bruce Wayne persona never raped the Joe Kerr persona?
>>83674591
I like to think that Bruce had been Batman for a relatively short amount of time at the start of BTAS, and as time went on he became more absorbed in being Batman and lost interest in being Bruce Wayne.
The actual reason is probably because the writing became more one-dimensional.
>>83675362
Except Killer Croc's and Scarecrow's. Those were welcome improvements.
>>83674724
God, they were fools to take away his bangs.
>>83674974
It's almost definitely just him getting older, as well as having done more voice work. You can hear the rasp in his normal talking voice in recent interviews and voice acting gigs.
>>83676303
>mfw scarecrow's redesign
>>83676424
It's too bad. In some ways Troy Baker's Joker is closer to TAS Joker than current Hamill.
>>83676303
Croc got a different voice actor. And Scarecrow just got super edgy. A far cry from the Professor Crane of seasons' past.
>>83674724
>So Superman sees people a weirder versions of themselves with less detail?
...Maybe? He is an alien, after all.
I think some of the more drastic changes were Catwoman going from a long-haired blonde with a grey suit to a short-haired brunette with pale blue skin in a simplified version of the Pfeiffer suit. And the Penguin got taller and thinner and lost the DeVito flippers.
Why was this so damned forgettable guys?
>>83676807
Cause it wasn't the really the BTAS people behind it
The interesting thing about Batman: TAS is that you could tell the quality of the episode based on the villain.
Joker (and Harley) 10/10
Two-Face 9/10
Riddler, Scarecrow or Freeze 8/10
Clayface, Mad Hatter, Hugo Strange, Ra's al Ghul or Killer Croc 7/10
Random original villain, crime boss, Poison Ivy or Bane 6/10
Ventriloquist 5/10
Penguin 4/10
Catwoman 3/10
Kyodai Ken or Baby Doll 2/10
Red Claw 1/10
>>83676762
It's not like Timm and co don't read comics so they probably saw Darwyn cooke's shit and were like woah let's work that in
>>83676807
I dunno, I liked it.
The short bundled with it had the single best rendition of animated Catwoman around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt_27bqy8S4
>>83677136
>Catwoman episodes
Don't remind me. It's like they didn't even try.
Every episode with her centered around some shoe-horned cat-related plot and did nothing but show how selfish, unlikable and utterly incompetent she was. What a joke.
>>83675320
Yeah. It's kind of gross to think Bruce would get romantically involved with Barbara.
>>83675320
>I like to think Beyond is a possible future and not set in stone.
It kinda has to be. The dark tone works fine for Batman, but it really drags STAS, JL and JLU down in the mud.
>>83677438
The worst one was where she was mutated into a cat and liked it. Just terrible.
>>83677438
Tyger, Tyger should've been a solo Catwoman episode. That could've been interesting.
The fact that she served as damsel for Bruce so much was just disappointing.
>>83677136
>Red Claw
Fuck those episodes
>>83677484
Timm and comapny are old school, Barbara was originally more of a Batman romantinc interested than Robin
>>83677515
>Liked it
She pretty clearly hated it. There's an interesting character potential there, but the plot was still focused more on Batman and Tygrus than Selina's problem.
>>83677136
I wish all of the villains at your 7 and above ranking got more episodes. Especially Two-Face. And now that I think about it, I think Riddler only had three episodes as the big bad.
>>83677509
STAS yeah, the whole Starro hijacked Supes for decades years is really depressing.
I mean to be fair they play with the whole time travel and alternate realities so they COULD make it so things turn out better.
>>83675219
This is a major component of Batman in the DCAU. There was even the episode of JL where Bruce travels to the future and meets his Beyond self, and is bothered by how cold and ruthless he's become.
I personally love the idea of him becoming more and more detached, first letting Batman become the primary persona over Bruce, and then Bruce becoming indistinguishable from Batman, especially after Alfred is gone. It lends more to the tragic nature of the character.
>>83677484
It being gross is why they did it.
>>83674591
I like to think of it as the character getting more bitter and weary of doing the fake Bruce act as he got older.
>>83677614
It was five years I think. But still, I don't like it as the only future for them. Much too bleak. I mean we know the Batfamily went to hell with the whole Joker/Tim thing, but who knows what happened to everyone else? Did Central City and Metropolis turn into Detroit too?
>>83677652
I don't necessarily think the Bruce act was fake. I think a part of him is a kind person like that. He just sort of exaggerates it on both ends because I think his true self was somewhere between Bruce and Batman. Mask of the Phantasm proved that not all of Bruce was gone. He just needed to be Batman in order to still be Bruce. I hope that makes sense.
>>83677644
What if after seeing what a wreck he becomes in the future, BTAS Bruce turns his life around and stops being a shit head loner?
Pic related
>>83677814
Kind of like Marty in Back to the Future. Retroactively unJUSTing yourself.
>>83675219
Batman should've had his heart replaced with a cloned replacement, or just use the Lazarus pits.
I know the latter point was made in Batman Beyond, but Bruce giving up rejuvenation was dumb
>>83676807
It focused a bunch of throw away female characters and the stakes didn't feel like they mattered. Honestly I remember so little of this movie.
>>83677515
That feeling when I liked that episode because of the Island of Dr. Moreau-ness of it. And shit, I love William Blake. Somehow I already knew the Tyger Tyger poem as a kid, no idea how.
>>83677644
In total agreement. Bruce's detachment was one of my favorite parts of the DCAU. It made those times that he really connected with people really poignant. Like that Ace death scene. The girl, not the dog... but hey, he loves that dog too.
>>83677700
I mean we're pretty Gothamcentric, there's no reason everywhere else couldn't have a relatively bright future.
>>83676350
>bangs
The term is something else. I remember it from the Injustice edit when superman gets in bruce's face
>>83675320
>>83677509
Kind of like how you can enjoy 2099 stories or Days of Future Past.
>>83677782
I don;t mean being kind, we see all the time in BTAS, even in the later seasons, Bruce wants to use Wayne Enterprises resources to be kind to his employees and offer help to people who are in a shitty situation and help his villains actually reform or get medical help, which I always thought was a nice touch.
I just mean in terms of putting on the cheerful face at all those fancy dinner parties. He probably got jaded to it all and just started flirting with rich bitches in the grizzled, bitter Batman voice because he gave less and less of a fuck.
>>83677814
Haha. Now that's a good way to think about it.
>Superman was doomed to decades of mind control slavery
>Lost a third of his life
>Didn't talk to his parents or tell them goodbye in their last moments
>Abandoned, divorced or killed Lois so lost the love of his life and best years that could have been together
>Never got to satisfy his Black Mercy dream with Van-El being born, won't either since Lois is a skin bag by that point if still alive (Bruce googled her young, earlier images which suggests she's dead?)
>Wonder Woman married a psychopath tyrant
>Batman Lord is dead
>Gotham is still a cesspool.
>Bruce fucked Gordon's daughter and cucked his adopted son
>Got his grandson miscarried
>Tim was tortured for decades by the Joker
>Justice League almost fully collapsed with barely five members left
>>83680373
>>Gotham is still a cesspool.
I mean, it went from being a city out of the 40s in BTAS to being a cyberpunk metropolis in the span of 20-30 years
>>83680409
Only highlights the inequality as a health meter. Gotham was home to Wayne industries as well, which was one of the richest corporations in the country. Most of the wealth accumulated by the 1%, and half of Gotham living in slums.
Why has no one else ever used her?
Out of respect for the movie?
>>83674724
When training to see less with his eyes as a child, he accidentally went too far and now he can't undo it.
>>83680747
I think they just had no other stories.
They used her again as a hired gun in Epilogue.
>>83674591
Man, thanks for reminding me how much I missed the old dichotomy of Conroy's original performance. Not just the Wayne voice, but the huskier Batman voice as well.
>>83680373
>Tim was tortured for decades by the Joker
Pretty sure it was only a few months, though even that was more than enough.
>>83680747
Probably just a lack of ideas. There's so many assassins in the DCU, it's hard to argue needing one more with personal ties to Batman.
Still, I really wish they would. She was a solid concept. A better "Anti-Batman" than most of the ones from the comic.
>>83680983
It was a process that took decades and started with nightmares. Tim thought it was just bad dreams from the ordeal.
>>83680747
She worked for Amanda Waller on numerous jobs. She was willing to yell at her and call off a mission in progress so they were very close.
>>83677644
>and is bothered by how cold and ruthless he's become.
He is not. More surprised to be more alive.
>>83677920
Lazarus Pit slowly turn you crazy.
>>83681195
But he was willing to go with it. A few dips would have given him decades. He wouldn't go at it for 700 years. Just hoped to buy a second lifetime.
>>83677814
https://youtu.be/-7EVT6IyFxk
>>83681195
Ra's didn't seem that crazy and he used them for centuries
>>83674591
Perhaps it took over him? Bruce disappeared the more Batman took over his life as he got older, and it slowly started bleeding through the mask he puts on for the world.
So much that by the time Beyond kicked off, he was just Batman, Bruce Wayne wasn't even a mask anymore. It's probably why WW could easily tell who Batman was in a Universe where people can't figure out Clark and Superman are the same person.
>>83674974
It's probably not easy to do that joker voice so its taken a toll on him over the years, specially for video games where there's more voice acting with longer continuos hours of recording sessions.
>>83681222
That's how it starts, anon. People talk about "no killing" as the big slippery slope, but immortality? Fuck, that's one temptation few could turn away after one dip, especially a well-meaning fascist like Bats. He'd probably have kept at the treatments if he hadn't realized what Ra's had doneto his own daughter.
>using the F word
Let's be real: the man's explicit motivation has always been striking fear into criminals as some kind of deterrent. And he's done some messed-up, morally grey stuff in both comics and cartoons in pursuit of that.
>>83675219
Remember that episode of dead man killing someone through batman? Man he was super pissed.
Does anyone know which episode it is where Batman is in the cave and he needs to make a phone call as Bruce Wayne to find some information, so Conroy has Batman doing his "Bruce Wayne" voice on the phone? It was a really subtle bit of acting, but I thought it was great.
>>83681389
Uuuhhh
>>83674591 This seems to be the most accurate - >>83681473
Bruce just lost himself in his job, he showed that he wanted to quit in Mask of the Phantasm but Andrea ditched him, ruining his best chance at happiness IMO. It's tough to be in his situation, to have so much training and power as one individual. Bruce near the end (in Epilogue) of his life, while it was a little crazy sounding, recognized how important a Batman was for the world... that's obviously something he's thought about for years and years. I just wish he and Diana got together though, guy deserves a good woman to care for him.
>>83681542
I wanna say it's the pilot 'On Leather Wings' but I'm not sure.
>>83681594
Wouldn't get just a bit bitter that your wife is an immortal with the strength of superman? They talk about the differences between Superman and Lois and how Lois would age while Superman would still look like he's in his 40s. But Bruce and Diana? Shish. She'd break him like a twig in Epilogue.
>>83680373
John and Hawkgirl hooked up though.
>>83681816
Vixen was murdered and John killed Shadow Thief and lost his frequent flyer subscription. Still sucks. And the bitch damned her entire people, fellow comrades, lover, and allowed an evil empire to prevail somewhere in the galaxy. Didn't even lobby the green lanterns to intervene. What a whore. Then again Superman never freed the planets he conquered in the name of Darkseid, so she's in good company.
>>83681560
Who is she? I love me some sexy latex babes.
>that Carmen sandiego hair
hnng
>>83675219
I consider BTAS to be a separate universe altogether.
>>83674591
He became more of a jerk because they wanted to darken him up. I think it said somewhere in a Wizard interview.
>>83674974
IIRC Hamill had to have surgery at one point.
>>83682284
Talia al Ghul, daughter of Ra's. To keep it simple.
>>83682284
You know you need to be at least 18 to post here, right sonny?
>>83682284
That's a hundreds-year-old-man inside the body of his daughter
>>83674591
Because as time went on, Batman became more and more damaged. Compare BTAS Bruce Wayne to BB Bruce Wayne. New Adventures Bruce was somewhere in the middle. Hell, throw in Mask of the Phantasm before, and you can see how his time as Batman is gradually making him more and more of a damaged individual.
>>83676626
Anon, it's Scarecrow. The dude gets off on scaring people. Are you really going to say that him getting a scarier costume is bad?
>>83677136
>he doesn't like Baby Doll
>>83682538
If he's that damaged, he should get it tattooed on his forehead, so people will know.
>>83682657
Because he's all messed?
>>83674667
This is why I hate the Batfamily.
I always figured it's something as simple as the Batman persona is who he really is, Bruce Wayne was the fake personality.
When Batman, WW and GL go back in time to the Old West, Batman is using his Batman voice despite not being in cowl. Because that's who he is (or just bad voice direction, but still)
>>83676303
I love how they didn't even try to justify Scarecrow's redesign, they just made him a Hanged Man and got Jeffrey Combs to voice him. Which was an immense improvement.
