Would you watch a Starship Troopers animation series?
Pro-military propaganda or balls to the walls parody?
>>83672464
Will there be casual nudity?
>>83672464
They already tried that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcfpzfPdx-U
It lasted about seven months.
>>83672500
>casual
>>83672464
why not something in the middle?
you mean other than the one that exists?
I already did watch it. It was great. Shame it ended on a cliffhanger.
There is also some jappy animated feature on netflix.
>>83672525
Didn't the animated series end with a bunch of bugs heading towards earth?
>>83675939
The one where Johnny Rico became Big Boss?
>>83672464
I already did.
There's an anime from the 80s base on the book.
>>83676086
Now we need an edit.
>>83672464
>Starship Troopers animation series
They've already done it. Twice.
Three times if you count Invasion, too.
>>83676009
Bugs on earth that could mimic humans
>>83678682
Like the ones from the second movie? The parasites?
>>83672464
>Pro-military propaganda or balls to the walls parody?
I like to see a thoughtful examination of the problems deriving from the sometimes necessity of military and individual strength in an imperfect world with imperfect and it becoming the dominant values of an entire society seeing it as the perfect, universal solution. Something that engages with Heinlein's philosophy and ethical ponderings without just discarding it as "lol fascism."
Or, I dunno. Cute bug girl and soldier Romeo and Juliet story. Either one is fine.
Are there ANY millitary shows made right now? Having at least one would be a great step for diversity.
>>83678868
>Name change to Big Boss
>Outer Heaven instead of LG Satellite Base
>Logo change and FED NET change to CODEC
If only I was any good at Photoshopping.
>>83678928
No, these bugs could switch between an Arachnid form and a human one, the only way they were identified was because they were remarkably bad at holding a conversation.
>psychic mind battles with bugs
the animated series got pretty fucking mental in the latter episodes
>>83679012
Makes sense of a sort-a hive-mind type species group to not be great at talking to individuals
>>83678964
I'd like Generation Kill: Bug Hunt with the first one.
Relatable fuckups under the yoke of extreme militarism.
Satire's great and all, but it's the norm now. It has it's place as critique, but it's pretty much just self aggrandizing smarm these days.
>>83672525
Outside of the early 2000s CGI and the too-dramatic-for-my-taste tone and color palette, this doesn't look half-bad.
>>83678979
Voltron and Steven Universe technically?
>>83679007
He even pilots a mech.
>>83676086
Kojima didn't invent eye patches.
>>83679046
are you sure you're not just grabbing MGS screenshots?
>>83678682
So XCOM?
>>83678964
militaristic government tendencies are usually so flawed that is hard not to fall into plain joke territory when doing a critique
>>83676086
Shit JC just get an augmented eye and put your shades back on.
I'd accept light parody, but you cannot just disregard the ideology of Starship Troopers outright. There has to be some kind of balance within the series.
>>83679180
Tell me what your alternative is that is somehow less flawed anon.
>>83679046
That's an exosuit, not a mech.
Mechs have cockpits.
>>83672464
there was one it was terrible
>>83672464
Propaganda.
First of all America needs to get some of its pride back and we also need all the able bodied soldiers we can get for ww3.
And parody is a cancer upon the world. It is the lowest form of "art". They just keep making fun of hard working people who actually make things work while they themselves don't contribute anything but hurtful trolling.
Parodists assume they have the higher ground than everyone else but they themselves are a million times worse lazy, 1st world pandered and spoiled bastards. They've never been to the army, they don't know shit about military life.
They might criticize and make fun of the world vision in starship troopers but I don't see them making anything better.
In starshiptroopers they have achieved utopia and true equality between both genders and across all races. You won't see parody or a critics' opinions ever resulting in anything like that.
Parodists are fucking worthless.
>>83680819
You do realize the writer of these books was a lieutenant in the Navy, right?
>>83680889
Yes, and...?
You aren't allowed to write anything if you've been in the military, is that what you're saying?
Freedom of speech isn't allowed for everyone?
I actually would like to know more.
>>83676009
Yeah. It ended 3 episodes away from the planned finale. I'm still bitter.
>>83680931
What hell are talking about?
>>83679521
Cockpit got torn off.
REMEMBER YOUR TRAINING AND YOU WILL MAKE IT BACK ALIVE
>>83680819
It really is funny how they mocked the utopian vision of the world expressed in Starship Troopers that accomplishes the egalitarian ideals so majy people dream of in this era, but they hold it as some kind of evil because it is accomplished through a social structure of citizen soldiers
>>83681007
You are the one dismissing writing just because it was made by someone in the navy, you degenerate piece of shit.
What the fuck are you going on about?
>you will never be a space marine
>the time line where America went ahead with the star wars project and the space race never died and instead of exploration we just waged war in space will never be real
>you will never work on the whims of Terran omnicorps that want you to get to another planet before the other fuckers to Terra form that bitch
>you will never pull a Gundam and start fighting for your new planet and wage war from across space in some space mecha and inside ships going full doom against bio engineered abominations
Jam it, bros.
>>83680819
>In starshiptroopers they have achieved utopia and true equality between both genders and across all races.
yes, because it was a work of fiction
>>83681072
I was pointing out to the asshurt paragraph writer that the guy who made the parody actually was involved in the military. Show me where I "dismiss" anyone's writing.
>>83681032
Its mocked because military dictatorships have never been that throughout history. Saddam kept different groups in line, but he did it at the cost of a lot of innocent lives and a shirty standard of living. Same with Castro. Saying your magical military utopia will totally work this time because we're fighting bugs makes for a fun novel, but a terrible idea for anyone that actually takes it seriously
>>83681072
>this is your average /pol/tard
What are some scifi military themed /co/ related materials?
>>83681072
I think he's saying that since the original writer was a Lieutenant in the Navy, it's probably already as full of American pride as it gets. But that's just my guess.
>>83681115
The novel is actually far more cynical about the whole facist society thing, the movie was less political in that sense.
>>83681032
Yeah, it's almost as if the liberal shits don't actually care about achieving any kind of utopia or equality at all and they are actually just trying to focus more power for themselves so they can boss people around.
Aka. Libbies being libbies as usual.
>>83679046
A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR
I really love stories where it follows a group from entering boot camp, to the heights if their careers. Especially when it's scifi
>>83681140
But the main character isn't American, he's Filipino.
>>83681152
Kind of funny when think about how the director of the movie lived next to a German military base during WW2 and him and his family were nearly killed multiple times by allied bombing runs.
>>83681105
...Starshiptroopers book is not a parody.
Don't confuse it with the shit movie that tries to turn everything into a joke because the director had no professionalism at all.
You dumb shit.
>>83681152
>The novel is actually far more cynical
What are you talking about? The novel is full on FUCK YEAH THIS IS THE GREATEST SHIT EVER, THE 20th CENTURY WAS FUCKING GAY JOIN THE ARMY NOW YOU FUCKING PUSSY.
>>83681128
One thing i really disliked about Rogue Trooper is how it never actually stepped out of the rambo cliche, rogue never actually stops fighting for the south and the norts are always portrayed as stereotypical villains. Rogue isn't really well rogue, merely tsundere for his superiors.
>>83679505
A fully depressing look at what ST's society would look like in the real world rather than a highly utopian novel.
>>83681213
>shutting in based verhoeven, the guy that gave us robocop
Check yourself before you wreck youself
>>83681213
>Paul Verhoeven
>no professionalism
What? Are you complaining that the guy who lived through WW2 bombings might not be particuarly pro-military?
>>83681241
Mocking 80s corporatism and cocaine fueled cultural expression with Robocop is a whole different beast anon.
>>83681188
Buenos Aires is in the Philippines? I could have sworn it was in Argentina.
>>83681265
Everyone who doesn't have a Michael Bay sized boner for the military is an unprofessional loser.
>>83681237
What do yoy envision that world to be? Genuinely curious here, as this mind of alternate future world offers uo many different concepts for discussion
>>83681158
Literally everybody says this about their opposition.
>>83681230
Personally I actually kind of found it refreshing how there wasn't some overly complex grey morality to it. I feel like that's overdone in a lot of these kinds of stories.
Plus the fact that the norts are so ridiculously treacherous and shitty and evil is funny.
For a comic called rogue trooper though, he didn't ever really go rogue, I'll give you that.
>>83681237
Why exactly would it be depressing? There is nothing in the book to suggest that people can't live rich, full lives without military service.
>>83681278
That's because people like you didn't read the book.
>>83680819
The Verhoeven movie WAS parody.
>>83681369
I read it, like, fifteen years ago when I was in highschool. You'll have to forgive me not being able to remember which spanish speaking country the main character originated from(there are quite a few).
>>83681237
It's a perfect utopia and only those that truly give a shit about society get to vote so it will stay a perfect utopia.
What the fuck is supposed to be depressing about that? What the hell is wrong with your head anon?
>>83681218
Nigger there's a part where they mention the corps used those who couldn't get into combat roles as test subjects because "everyone had to serve"
>>83681408
It's ok, they're all white in the movie anyway.
>>83681265
>>83681241
He was given a job, he was supposed to make a movie based on the book, he was paid for it.
But instead of being a professional movie maker he acted like a little spoiled brat and shat all over the source material.
It's the very definition of unprofessional film making.
>>83681428
Are we still talking about the book or the movie? The book actually discourages people from enlisting by having recruiters be walking warnings of what you'll end up as if you're in the frontlines. Hell, even in the movie you actually have to enlist, there's no draft, no one is forced to serve anything.
>>83681416
Not to mention the pervasive theme of the military intelligence hegemony becoming increasingly dehumainzed and bug like the longer they engaged in the war against the pseudo arachnids.
>>83681428
It also harps on about how military life is hard as fuck but still the best possible way to spend your life, how society is better in every way under military rule, and it goes off on a wild tangent twice about how civilian justice is objectively the worst thing ever and military justice is the only thing that works.
>>83681385
There was a book first you illiterate moron.
>>83681237
The Forever War is basically Starship Troopers without the rose-tinted glasses. It's pretty dated in some ways considered the book is from 1974 (while Starship Troopers is from 1959 and comes across less dated, at least to me), but in other ways this datedness gives it a lot more perspective.
For example. one of the big plot points in the book is that space travel takes a fucking lot of time and creates a time difference between those in space and those on Earth, and one of the culture shocks the main character gets when he returns from space is thatbeing gay is now considered normal.
>>83672464
The movies were not faithful to the book and purposeful mockery of the subject matter by a childish director.
I'd like to see a movie trye to book and not be influenced or judged by todays tumbler culture.
I mean, we eventually got enders game...roughly true to the books, though it did cut out a major sub plot and really didn't hit the viewers with the weight of twist reveal.
>>83672500
In the book, women could not hack mobile infantry training, but they mainly enlisted as navy ship crew and had seperate quarters of the ship sepwrated by gender, so no casual co-ed shower scenes.
>>83681458
>>83681508
I hate what Verhoeven did but to be fair the movie started as unrelated to it and they just used the name when they got the rights.
>>83681428
That isn't really bad.
It's more like something the cowards deserve.
There are people out there fucking dying for them, it's not unreasonable that they should give something back in return once in a while.
>>83674892
Still not the powe armor, weapons and tactics described in the book.
Warhammer 40k was actually heavily inspired by the series.
>>83676086
No, there is a really old hand drawn robotech era starship trooper mini series...while it's not perfect, it's still way better than the travesty the live action movie series was.
>>83681333
More from the perspective of within the military. The book states that peacetime MI is a bunch of busywork made intentionally dangerous.
>>83681301
A couple of things off the top my head include tension between military and non-military civil service, the fact that since they say they take anyone who signs up means that it'd have to have a massively overbloated government sector and military, or that since they're still a free market economy that the military-industrial complex would have to be completely entrenched.
>>83676086
Johnny Rico was a dark skinned flip...leave it to anime to make everyone white.
>>83681574
1 was good, 2 was pretty bad, and 3 went full retard
>>83681428
They tried to scare away the MC on purpose because A they can't use cowards and will only take those that are 100% dedicated no matter what, and B he was basically enlisting to become cannon fodder after he failed getting in everywhere else (and didn't love his dog enough).
>>83681458
>But instead of being a professional movie maker he acted like a little spoiled brat and shat all over the source material.
Who the fuck cares? It's not the obligation of a director to direct a "faithful" adaptation of a book. It's their obligation to make a good movie, and that's where it ends, full-stop.
You want the book, read the book.
>>83681606
Don't forget how certain styles and parts of books just don't translate to film and have to be cut or altered. Like you said, if he wants the book he should just read the book.
>>83681606
>Who the fuck cares?
Those who want to hire someone reliable.
Those who care about being able to trust fellow members of society.
Those who want to upkeep standards.
>>83681313
>Personally I actually kind of found it refreshing how there wasn't some overly complex grey morality to it.
Considering this came out in the 80's, i would say it was a product of its era. It follows pretty much every other trend of media from the time. For example the Norts being a blatant mix of Nazis and Soviets.
>I feel like that's overdone in a lot of these kinds of stories.
closest thing i've seen to that in a comic is simply "war is hell", but it never something that actually adresses things like the politics of both sides
I feel like the comic teases the reader with the idea that Rogue could actually stop giving a shit, there's a lot of moments where Rogue concludes that the whole conflict is retarded and the south is just as shitty as the north, yet he completely forgets this on the next page and goes back to his archetype. For example there's this ocassion where Rogue finds a Nort-South flag on the moon and says something about how the north and the south shouldn't fight and humans accomplished great things united but this is never adressed again and Rogue just keeps going like nothing happened. Rogue as a character never develops or grows in any way, he stays exactly the same from start to finish, at least in the original comics.
>>83672464
There was a Starship Troopers animated series you underage little faggot twink
>>83681541
>That isn't really bad.
it is considering some of them die
>>83681458
It really isn't anon.
>>83681681
But he was reliable, he made a movie that people loved and that made money. That's what his job was, not pleasing fans of the book.
>Those who care about being able to trust fellow members of society.
Hahaha, what.
>>83681723
And there are thousands of people in the frontlines dying for him every day.
>>83678436
This is by far the closest to the book, while there are some artistic liberties and a few minor additions/changes, it is still by far tge most faithfull.
People who just saw the shitty 90's movie got the short end of the stick by a director who couldn't keep his own petsonal feelings in check.
Anyways, for those of you who didn't read the book, basically it's like Full Metal Jacket where most of the book details the years worth of intense and some times deadly training it takes to become a mobile infantry trooper being part of a four to six man team that "parachute" drop from space and have enough fire power to take out entire infantry regiments and columns of tanks by being armed with laser cannons and even have multiple mini nukes.They can even fly around short distances in power suits that are larger than say anything Iron man wears, but not so big to be considered mecha.
We learn a little bit about the future society that pisses off lots of liberals because it's basically a military council that rules the human government, and they restricts viting privilages to only retired veterans who gain full citizenship, while half citicens are just dependants of the government.
Mind you, the federation is socialist and there is free healthcare, education, housing and even garunteed job placements, but for some reason this still pisses off leftest, but further I might add, tou can gain citizenship through other federal services, so if your an anti war hippie you can still get the right to vote by working as a fire fighter or EMT or clerk for 20 years and not have to be a soldier.
Still people in hollywood denounce the book as facist nationalistic propaganda and Paul Verhoven purposely shat out a shitty movie to mock the book.
Funny thing is, Heinlien wrote stranger in a strange land and hippies in the 70's-80's loved it. Heinlien was truly a renaissance man of scifi and never wrote tge same book twice, each of his books being a different prediction
>>83681458
Considering the novel spends half of the narrative on exposition about the political beliefs of the author and the characters debating about them rather than fight and action, I would say the director saved the franchise, i mean honestly who would still give a shit about a book like that.
>>83681768
>because others are willingly choosing to go die in war means he has to let himself be killed/experimented on
fuck off with that stupidity
>>83681681
The film was an entirely unrelated property in development that got the ST name attached to it after development because the studio was afraid of getting sued.
>>83681643
A huge chunk of the book is people talking about politics and philosophy. A faithful adaptation would mostly be a drama taking place during wartime rather than a war film.
>>83681792
Of future societies.
Hell, one of his books talks about the Idea of Africa surviving a global atomic war and black people becomming the dominant race.
Wonder why no one has made a movie about that?
>>83681768
yes but they're dying to horrific shit being done to them by their own people, used as human guinea pigs
>>83681838
like Nazis did
>>83681838
>yes but they're dying to horrific shit being done to them by their own people, used as human guinea pigs
can you give specific examples?
>>83681792
I like Heinlein but lets be honest, he was a Navy POG who never saw combat and got out on a medical discharge and a lot of his works are basically him waxing poetic about his fetishes.
>>83681792
Let me get this straight. It's okay to make a book that's just basically superlong personal pro-war soapbox, but it's NOT okay for someone to make a movie that disagrees with these ideas?
You sound buttmad.
>>83681751
He was unprofessional and could not control his own pollitics and altered a story for self gratification and claimed artistic liscence.
How would you feel if I made a movie about a popular book where the main character is a lesbian but an outstanding person championing a cause for diversity, but since, (devils advocate here) Myself not agreeing with homosexuals existing or furthering their rights or acceptence in society, made the movie shit on lebians and even have the main character become strait, and come to reslization that being gay was a mistake?
Why you'd be outraged that I did that, I didn't just simply buy the rights to the name of a story you liked and tacked it on my different story, I purposefully tried to go against and discrefit the source material because I didn't like it and wanted to promote my agenda and deflect all criticism by saying I took artistic liberties.
>>83681847
Exactly, there's parts where the author mentions shit that is ethically reprehensible to the point it seems like he's purposefully pushing the reader to condemn the society presented in the book.
Also, not even the nazis used their own people, they used prisoners.
>>83681881
So basically most of his work is him dealing with how much he wishes he saw combat? Creepy.
>>83681881
he has an unhealthy fixation with cannibalism
>>83681836
Afrofuturism?
>>83680931
Are you having a stroke?
>>83681218
This is what's really interesting with the book.
It's narrated in a first person point of view so you don't know if all the praise of this militaristic society the book contains is link to the fact that the narrator was born is that society or if it's the author opinion.
The book is really ambiguous about it. One thing that stucked with me (probably because I had seen the movie before where it's different) is the passage in class when the teacher asks why their system is the best. The answer is because it worked for the last centuries. There is no ideology here. Just the fictional test of time. And the maine character is not really a hero.
>>83681883
>setting up a strawman and pretending the person who disagrees with you is an SJW type
Your assuming a lot about someone you know nothing about and making an ass of yourself. And to answer your question, people could just choose not to see the movie. If you don't like it, why go watch it.
>>83681508
>Hurr durr my retarded patriotism
Fuck you, the book is awful and you are awful by extension for liking it. Now go slap your dad for not wearing a condom you ridiculous waste of carbon!
>>83681883
He didn't "alter" the story, he made a new one that was basically a rebuttal.
Also, Henlein's story wasn't "inclusive of soldiers" or something like that, it was pretty much a glorified rant. So was the movie. They took same concept of debate, and presented opposite views (inb4 "Henlein's argument was smarter presented" - he had a long-ass drama book to flesh his one out, Verhoeven had a two-hour long action movie.)
Also Verhoeven didn't buy rights to the story, a movie company did. If you want to blame someone for "letting" them "tarnish" Starship Troopers brand, blame them.
IMO, at this point concept of Starship Troopers includes the movie as much as the book - a good modern adaptation should include BOTH points of view - try to objectively examine good (Henlein's view) and bad (Verhoeven's view) of society as presented in the books, without turning into a soapbox, which, again IMO, makes watching/reading both kinda hard.
>>83681032
Well, I imagine if every politician had to put on a helmet and carry a rifle or see their children serve in their place, I'd imagine governments would be a lot less eager to go to war unless absolutely needed.
Thats the idea behind hiw in StarShip Troopers world, you can onky become a politician if you were a war veteran and would have exoerienced the horrors of war firsthand.
Problem is today's society, we have civilians as politicians who casually send kids to die in wars and are only concerned with their wealth, power and reputations.
Take Hillary or Bill Clinton for example, they give no shits when marines, sailors or soldiers die because of tgeir actions or lack of actions.
>>83681919
Feudalism worked for almost twenty centuries.
>>83681881
The worst part is, the guy you were responding to is an idiot. There were several blatant indications in the book that the government really was just as big a crock of shit as every other government. The story wasn't about the premise of the society. That was just a setting. It was about the human condition in wartime. And the fact that governments with a strong military are going to find a reason to use it, even if it means bombing the fuck out of some skinny abos or starting a war with a bunch of bugs just for something to shoot at.
>>83681892
Prisoners aren't their own people?
If a college student was caught for possession of wacky-tobaccy it's ethically a-OK to dissect him?
>>83681188
That's what makes it a utopia. A perfected global society means we all American now
>>83681883
I wouldn't give a shit.
In fact more power to you, it would be more productive than bitching on the internet.
If you don't want that to happen to your book, don't sell the rights to a third party or at least make sure the contract gives you creative control over the adaptation. Or take your name off it and don't make any money from royalties like Moore did.
And yeah Heinlein was dead at this point, so blame his estate. But not Verhoeven, he did what the movie studio wanted him to do, his job was never to actually further Heinlein's philosophy. He was in no way unprofessional, that's absolutely not what that word means.
>>83680819
Parody is a way to point out what's wrong/not working by making it ridiculously overblown. Of course, it can be misused but it's a powerfull tool. Chaplin's The Dictator is considered a masterpiece and it contains a lot of scene parodying Hitler.
Working hard doesn't make something less wrong. (I'm not talking about the army specifically). There's an expression: The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. It means that even those who try to do good can be misguided and do a lot of wrong. What is good for someone is not always good for someone else.
>>83681965
Except that would require politicians to serve in the war, which requires a stroke of luck. On a planetary scale, most servicemen won't see combat, as ironically was the case with Henlein himself.
>>83681115
The philipino army has ousted their civilian president, more than once, but the generals refuse to be the rulers of the country and are instead wardens, or stewarts of the throne removing presidents if they are incompetant or corrupt...and tge people support and love their military doing this.
I'd say that is a good example.
Did any of you fuckers actually read the book? Heinlen might not be to your taste, but he did a pretty decent job at painting a very grey picture about a militaristic society and how that affected humanity. For every mention of how neat things were with everyone being unified and such, there were equal mentions of how if you weren't in the military, you were treated as a lower class citizen. You can see Rico succeed as a soldier but also watch how he's no better than some of the other soldiers, just luckier in not being shredded upon atmospheric entry. The book is supposed to be grey and it does a damn good job of it coming from an enlisted guy from the 50s.
>>83681967
And nobody would call a feudalist society an utopia. A big part of the people living in this kind of society are fucked.
>>83682031
Thank you. Christ. Also, as I mentioned, the book pretty clearly hints that the skinnies were never any sort of threat at all, and the bugs wouldn't have been if we hadn't shot first.
>>83681140
Heinlien is libertarian who values personal/individual freedoms and liberties above all else, but recognised that offering a few years of service to the military is akin to people coming together for the greater good and by combining efforts people could accomplish great things.
Republicanism gets a bad wrap because of today's political parties, but by definition it's the concept that we are all respected as equals and sare the burden of responsibility as an individual and as a group...so tink of it kind of lie the idea of pre imperial roman soldiers where every able bodied male citizen is a soldier part time as everyone comes together in defense of our home.
>>83681965
During the First World War, a few number of the members of French parliament were young enough (below 40) to get draft. One at least died in a war he voted for.
>>83682000
>removing presidents if they are incompetant or corrupt
Or those that didn't do things the way they want them to be done. You're talking like the military can't be corrupt or misguided.
>>83681188
Well, the federation is te united earth federation...so technically boarders on earth don't mean anything any more as individual nations no longer exist and are just territories/provinces for your mailing address.
America dosen't exist anymore...globalism was achieved as all of himanity was united as one species/race and now spreads to the stars waging war against aliens.
>>83682068
>Republicanism
>today's political parties
Republicanism is literally the ideology that you shouldn't vote for your head of state you dumb dumb! Go to sleep you American Dog!
>>83682099
or until a colony on another planet decides to form their own government and Earth's gets pissy about it and wages war on them
>>83681278
Traditional nations don't exist anymore. In starshiptroopers, humans are united under the federation...racism and religious bigotry loses it's valu when it's humanity versus grey skinny aliens and giant killer crab spiders with laser guns.
>>83682099
Building on this, globalism really came about in the novel because there was such a divide between human and bug. Heinlen didn't paint the bugs as sympathetic in any light other than hinting that it was also just survival for them as for us by the time the war was in full swing. There are no chances for a crossed lovers type story or a misunderstood beast kind of trope because of how alien each species is to the other and the lack of communication. He obviously showed lighter and darker sides of what the military meant to the people of Earth as a whole, but only in the context that there would be some unquestionable monster to rail against.
>>83682000
>the military has absolutely no agenda and is definetly not being used to remove people from power
are you really this naive?
>>83681965
Approximately 20% of Congress are veterans. About 7% of the American population in general are veterans.
>>83681988
It's been years since I read the book, but aren't the MI an incredibly small portion of the military to begin with?
>>83682068
>Heinlien is libertarian who values personal/individual freedoms and liberties above all else
Yes, and you can thank Vorhoeven for the average person think Heinlein is some kind of Nazi. At least Hollywood won't be able to fuck up the adaptation of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress too much because that's essentially fucking over the American Revolution.
>>83682031
>coming from an enlisted guy from the 50s.
Heinlein was an officer in the 30s.
>>83682152
>It's been years since I read the book, but aren't the MI an incredibly small portion of the military to begin with?
Yes, partly because no one wants to be in it, partly because of their high death rate, and partly because their power armor is very efficient that each man is enough to cover kilometers of an area on their own.
>>83682154
didn't starship troopers novel already kinda shat on the revolutionary war?
I think they bring it up in a classroom part but don't recall exactly what they say about it
>>83681287
If he wanted to make an anti war movie, then maybe he should have walked away from starship troopers and I don't know made a mivie about him being an unwilling hitler youth soldier and surviving bombing missions from the "good guys" and shit.
Paul's narrow mindedness made him make a WW2/Cold War anti war statement mocking napoleonic pro war propaganda in a book universe were technically humanity is united in peace and are fighting against laser gum weilding space bugs...it's him putting his 20th century based emotional baggage in a 23rd centurty based scifi future war story.
>>83682152
Veterans like Bush Jr. or actual veterans?
>>83682187
Wait a sec, so he wrote a book brown nosing the idea of basing politics on the combat experience and even tho he never saw any combat he still glorified war? isn't that hypocrisy?.
>>83681474
To destroy your enemy, you must understand your enemy.
And if you read Enders game, you can't help but feel sympathetic to your enemy when you know more about them than any civilian back home.
>>83682239
he also wrote a book about a cult leader raised by martians who turned out to be an angel but he wasn't any one of those
>>83682154
The average person hasn't seen the movie. The average person that has seen the movie doesn't know it's adapted from a book. The average person who knows it's from a book has no ideas who the author is. Furthermore most of them have no idea that the movie parodies the book's vision. Hell many of them can't even tell the movie is supposed to be satiric. Get a clue.
Also once again blame his estate for selling the rights and not giving a shit about the final product.
>>83682220
As in, "served in the military," the actual definition of veteran. The idea that if politicians had to serve in the military they wouldn't want to go to war is bullshit considering that upwards of 70% of Congress were vets during Vietnam.
>>83682207
He and his writing team were hired to work on "Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine", not Starship Troopers.
>>83682272
Heinlein put a lot of his personal political views in ST. While there is enough evidence that the book as a whole isn't a mouthpiece for his opinions, characters within the book are mouthpieces for his political views.
>>83682302
But serve in the military =/= going to war.
>>83682272
I doubt that book was as much as a political statement as the Blank Slate young man gets teached about the benefits of facism by professor Mouthpiece and then about the glory of war by Lieutenant Self Insert
>>83681475
Eh, I'll admit my eight years in the corps was pretty funa nd fullfilling.
Got trained in a variety of stuff from wilderness survival, to radio and satalite communications repair. Got to travel to Germany, Japan, Honduras and it was first time being sent to Texas, New York, Wasington DC. I was being paid to travel and be trained and while it wasn't a lot of money, it gave me a solid footing that most young men fresh out highschool didn't during the recession.
Fighting in Iraq was...an experience and at least I can say I did something historic.
Went back home, minus a leg to finish my contract in California, got out, used my GI Bill for college and now I own a resturant and comic book store which oays the bills while I further my education for my own pleasure.
>>83682239
No necessarily if he didn't see himself as exemplary. Like, you know, an idiot could praise basing politics around having measurably smart leaders (like cult leader Rael does).
>>83672464
Pro-military propaganda, please.
Where any of the movie sequels good?
The pinball machine was a lot of fun I played it recently
>>83681485
In Enders Game they reveal that it was pointless for what was left of the space fleet to return to Earth even with FTL as everyone they loved would be dead and burried.
40k features this a lot and people who travel frequently with FTl are techically hundreds of years old.
>>83682388
2 is okay, but the first is much better. 3 just goes full retard and takes a heavy Christianity cult into it.
>>83681838
You know, professional test subjects exit today, clinical drug trails for new medicines?
Viagra was originally about helping stroke and heart attack victims open up their blood vessels.
>>83682338
It's an endless reductive line of reasoning. The number of soldiers who actually see combat is small and even then we can start splitting hairs even further.
>>83681792
Don't know about the book, because I didn't read it. Paul Verhoevens movie may be a bad adaptation but I still think it's a damn fine and most of all fun movie.
And I don't think leftists would be thrilled about job placements they don't really have any influence on. I don't think anyone would be thrilled.
>>83672464
As long as this song is somewhere in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThrVQKl04Ak
>>83681957
Game of Thrones did it.
>>83682461
those are willing test subjects
>>83682464
It's not endless, you can't really go further than that.
I'm just saying when people say "veterans" in normal parlance they mean someone who went to war, not a reservist, and "well they were technically in the army" is not exactly a response to "they didn't go to war".
Not that I give a shit personally, but the reasoning of "well they did go to war and still vote for wars" doesn't work as well if they didn't go to war.
The most funny thing about the movie is that even tho is blatant satire of the book's glorification of war and pseudo-fascistic governments, there's still people who think the movie is supporting their points about militarism.
>>83681416
Well, what about the people who simply don't like that version of utopia? It's not like "utopia" is something that can be exhaustively defined so that it applies to everyones desires. And everything that is so rigidly defined as that militaristic society is bound to produce problems and uprisings sooner or later.
So there will be people who can't deal with that kind of society. So it's not perfect.
The only fictional example I can think of that dealt with this problem well is A Brave New World.
>>83682126
Which, I think he hinted to, when Rico and his other soldier buddies got attacked by redneck anti government types at a bar.
Really then the future will be like the Expanse where Earth exploits the astriod belt miners and Mars becomes it's own nation almost being a repeat of the American Revolution, as a Martian would resent being affected by laws written by some one on Earth, a planet he may very well never set foot on in his lifetime.
>>83682556
It's kind of amazing how today's world is so much closer to Huxley's vision of tyranny than Orwell's, precisely because people wanted to run away from the latter's vision.
>>83682553
Your "parody" failed letist
>>83682606
>being this into the utopia politics of a 1950s sci fi book
And you didn't even pick the right 1950s sci fi author.
>>83682499
Again, I have to ask where in the book is it stated that this is compulsory? Not only is service voluntary but people are allowed to quit because they don't want servicemen that don't want to be there in the first place.
>>83672464
I already have, it's pretty great.
>>83682597
I'd say we are living in "A Brave New world"
Kids these days are so apathetic and there are somany things competting for our attention they keep us distracted and complacent instead of moving forward.
Anti gun groups are stopping trying to outright ban guns, as they know that will cause an up riar, but places like California place ridicules and frivolus passive aggressive gun laws with taxes, fees and oermits that makes trying buy a gun a hassle and expensive to the point that people give up on buying a gun abd have their desire fir one sated by video games and having a counter culture movement that demonizes gun owners and promotes reliance and tryst in a police state so the don't have to ban guns and can be as restrictive as possible but still allow some form of path to gun ownership and thus say they are not infinging on our rights.
Gun control, thought contol, emotion control, total control.
Legalize weed and push it on the people to keep them soft and lazy like how chinese, miners and railroad workers were controlled with opium.
>>83682537
It's not "technically in the army." If you were a member of the armed forces you're a veteran. It doesn't matter what you did while you were serving, only that you served. If by "go to war" you mean "deployed to an area with active combat operation," you exclude a large portion, at least 70% for OIF, of former servicemen. If you narrow it down to combat MOS then you exclude something like 92% of former servicemen. If you further narrow that down to combat MOS that saw actual combat you narrow it down even further.
>>83682672
This.
If you read the book, people can leave whenever they want, they just don't get a second chance.
This whole experiment unwilling test subject shut sounds like a crock of shit...Paul, is that you?
>>83682736
Hey man, just because I was a mechanic , which is not a combat MOS; I didn't see combat?
I guess have to tell that to the stump where my leg used to be.
And while, yes, it's a group effort filling an area with holes, I guess I don't count as scoring kills because I was one out of six men operating an M2, so I can't claim a single one of the forty chunky salsa remains of insurgents as one of my kills.
>>83682736
Well? The argument you originally responded to was
> if every politician had to put on a helmet and carry a rifle or see their children serve in their place, I'd imagine governments would be a lot less eager to go to war unless absolutely needed.
>Thats the idea behind hiw in StarShip Troopers world, you can onky become a politician if you were a war veteran and would have exoerienced the horrors of war firsthand.
The argument was about how people who had seen the horrors of war themselves would vote less for wars. You're being disingenuine if you take what anon said to mean anybody who was under service in any way at some point.
If you think that's narrow and a small number compared to all the people who are classified as veterans, fine, it is, and that's sort of the point.
>>83682799
>not building a new leg with a cannon in it
step it up anon
>>83682832
Carlos!
>>83682799
My post was arguing against that line of reasoning. "Went to war" is such a vague and mostly meaningless distinction that it's stupid to use that as a distinction.
>>83682710
>Gun control, thought contol, emotion control, total control.
Funny how you think gun control matters when thought control and emotion control exists.
The classic argument of pro gun that nazi Germany wouldn't have existed if the population were armed is so wrong. Hitler didn't take Germany by force, he did it by mass manipulation. If the average citizen had gun at the time, he would have use it to further Hitler's policy rather than fights it.
And no we're not closer to Brave New World than 1984. Did people already forget about Snowden and the mass surveillance he revealed was happening and is still hapening? And not only in the USA, France's laws on surveillance are much stronger since both terrorist attacks and they weren't lenient to begin with.
Did people already forget a few months ago the FBI was hell-bent on getting a maste key to enter any Iphone?
>>83672464
>there will never be a faithful adaption of that book
>Juan will always be Argentinian
>>83682827
The idea that just because you've experience combat first hand somehow makes you more qualified to determine whether or not war should be declared is idiotic.
>>83682902
Eh, Hilter got into power party by election partly by using the system itself.
>Hitler came in second in both rounds of the election, garnering more than 35 per cent of the vote in the final election. Although he lost to Hindenburg, this election established Hitler as a strong force in German politics.[137]
>The absence of an effective government prompted two influential politicians, Franz von Papen and Alfred Hugenberg, along with several other industrialists and businessmen, to write a letter to Hindenburg. The signers urged Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as leader of a government "independent from parliamentary parties", which could turn into a movement that would "enrapture millions of people".[138][139]
Hitler, at the window of the Reich Chancellery, receives an ovation on the evening of his inauguration as chancellor, 30 January 1933
>Hindenburg reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler as chancellor after two further parliamentary elections—in July and November 1932—had not resulted in the formation of a majority government. Hitler headed a short-lived coalition government formed by the NSDAP and Hugenberg's party, the German National People's Party (DNVP). On 30 January 1933, the new cabinet was sworn in during a brief ceremony in Hindenburg's office.
and then
>As chancellor, Hitler worked against attempts by the NSDAP's opponents to build a majority government. Because of the political stalemate, he asked Hindenburg to again dissolve the Reichstag, and elections were scheduled for early March.
>On election day, 6 March 1933, the NSDAP's share of the vote increased to 43.9 per cent, and the party acquired the largest number of seats in parliament. Hitler's party failed to secure an absolute majority, necessitating another coalition with the DNVP.
>>83683021
and then
>To achieve full political control despite not having an absolute majority in parliament, Hitler's government brought the Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act) to a vote in the newly elected Reichstag. The Act—officially titled the Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich ("Law to Remedy the Distress of People and Reich")—gave Hitler's cabinet the power to enact laws without the consent of the Reichstag for four years. These laws could (with certain exceptions) deviate from the constitution.[151] Since it would affect the constitution, the Enabling Act required a two-thirds majority to pass. Leaving nothing to chance, the Nazis used the provisions of the Reichstag Fire Decree to arrest all 81 Communist deputies (in spite of their virulent campaign against the party, the Nazis had allowed the KPD to contest the election[152]) and prevent several Social Democrats from attending.[153]
>To achieve full political control despite not having an absolute majority in parliament, Hitler's government brought the Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act) to a vote in the newly elected Reichstag. The Act—officially titled the Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich ("Law to Remedy the Distress of People and Reich")—gave Hitler's cabinet the power to enact laws without the consent of the Reichstag for four years. These laws could (with certain exceptions) deviate from the constitution.[151] Since it would affect the constitution, the Enabling Act required a two-thirds majority to pass. Leaving nothing to chance, the Nazis used the provisions of the Reichstag Fire Decree to arrest all 81 Communist deputies (in spite of their virulent campaign against the party, the Nazis had allowed the KPD to contest the election[152]) and prevent several Social Democrats from attending.[153]
>>83683056
>The position of the Centre Party, the third largest party in the Reichstag, was decisive. After Hitler verbally promised party leader Ludwig Kaas that Hindenburg would retain his power of veto, Kaas announced the Centre Party would support the Enabling Act. The Act passed by a vote of 441–84, with all parties except the Social Democrats voting in favour. The Enabling Act, along with the Reichstag Fire Decree, transformed Hitler's government into a de facto legal dictatorship.[155]
So yeah he didn't really have the majority of Germany behind him when he got into power either, it was as much about using the system as it was about getting the people to vote for him.
>>83682993
Fair enough, it wasn't my opinion, I was just pointing out that saying "there's a lot of veterans in congress" wasn't a proper equivalency.
>>83683073
Stereotypes aside, Germans are largely idiots.
>>83683091
Still, that isn't really adding anything to the discussion and it took three posts that nobody will read.
>>83683073
Why the posts?
Because there's a pervasive (wrong) idea that Hitler got into power mostly democratically and that most Germans were behind him, while it was one of the most masterful coups d'états ever. And because nobody is going to actually read if I just post a link to his wikipedia article.
I guess that didn't stop >>83683091 from not reading though.
>>83683118
>says something wrong
>gets explained in detail why it's wrong
>why, this adds nothing
I'm sorry for trying to educate you. Don't read, more power to you.
It's not like this discussion is actually on topic anyway.
>>83683135
I did read. And if you hand power over to a party that is known to engage in violent suppression of other political factions - granted a lot of political parties back then did the same - by granting them the ability to remove your party's influence from government with the only safeguard being an increasingly senile old man in poor health who wanted to retire in 1932, you deserve to be called an idiot.
>>83683182
I wasn't that anon. But you weren't even disagreeing with his base statement. You were disagreeing with a small aspect of it. Then dedicated three (3) posts to correcting it. Just a little appalled is all.
>>83683220
I misunderstood you, I thought you were saying the German people were idiots for trusting Hitler.
The suppression of other political factions is what forced their hand though, because Hitler was doing all he could to keep the governement from functiunning in any way, in a time of the worst economic crisis in history.
I agree the handshake deal on the veto power is a dumb move but I'm not entirely sure what alternative they had, besides keeping the situation in the chaotic status quo it was in.
>>83683232
Eh fair enough, I just don't like people using Hitler rising to power as an example of "see? the mass is made of idiots". It's like Godwin point except Hilter doesn't even like dogs.
>>83681584
He's been white in everything except the books. For some reason a military protagonist thats not a psycho has to be a good looking white guy.
