Hypercrisis thread? Hypercrisis thread.
What appeals to you about Hypercrisis?
What do you make of the Gentry appearing in some of the DC Rebirth titles?
What are some examples of some works with some Hypercrisis leanings outside of capeshit? Essentially anything that discusses the relationship between fiction and reality outside of superhero works?
>>83615318
The atomic arrangement of the actual real life element Krypton.
>>83616211
The map of the multiverse.
>>83616211
>>83616240
Do you think this was intentional?
The gentry appeared in rebirth?
>>83616308
>>83596356
Read this storytime. It's fairly obvious something funny's going on.
>>83616384
I think either Doctor Manhattan IS Empty Hand, or he's fighting him.
>>83616276
Nothing is intentional, Hypercrisis just is.
>>83616432
See, I'm still not sure on bringing the Watchmen characters into this.
They could've just used the Earth-4 characters.
>>83616462
>>83616472
an AU Captain Atom wouldn't have the same oomph as Doctor Manahattan
>>83616527
What I don't get about this pic is when did Vertigo become a separate universe? During the 80's and COIE Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, Sandman, into the 90's with The Books of Magic, they were all shown to be part of the New Earth. Then Brightest Day comes along with a young Constantine and people say the original Hellblazer was a different Earth.
>>83616527
Nice pic, but there's also the Anti-Matter Universe. Fantastic work otherwise though.
>>83616640
I disagree. Most people would be able to tell it was 'supposed' to be Doctor Manhattan anyway. Plus the Watchmen universe is supposed to be its own thing. I don't think it's ever been connected to the DC multiverse until now. And Earth-4 was always supposed to be the 'totally-not Watchmen' universe.
>>83616640
It'd be cool to see those two interact.
>>83616211
>>83616240
The mandala flower
>>83616707
Around the mid to late 90's or so. The split was due to some editorial mandates about what could and couldn't be done in the DCU that were holding Vertigo back.
>>83616737
Then Earth-4 is just an AU of the Watchmen universe, every universe has a multiverse to it and so on and so forth.
>>83616849
>every universe has a multiverse to it and so on and so forth.
Is that how it works?
>>83616737
Why use the filed off serial numbers version when you own the genuine article?
and there is a connection
>>83616802
Is there an in-universe explanation why it's not considered canon anymore? I mean Daniel/Morpheus is in Morrison's JLA so it must still be part of it. My headcanon is that Constantine just used some magic to make himself younger. So far I haven't seen any inconsistency with Vertigo and DC's timeline, they were always one cohesive narrative.
>>83616986
>Why use the filed off serial numbers version when you own the genuine article?
Artistic integrity?
>>83616916
It's how it should work. If we have an AU then the AU must also have AU's and so on. Otherwise their not really infinite.
>>83616986
>>83617032
>Artistic integrity?
>in comics
kek
Did Before Watchmen make you hate the original?
>>83616986
>>83617107
>>83615318
>What appeals to you about Hypercrisis?
Nothing. I just want stories. Not stories about stories and meta shit.
>>83617107
>Did Before Watchmen make you hate the original?
No but it wasn't really necessary either.
>>83617474
comic books in general aren't necessary.
>>83617563
By the same token, no piece of entertainment at all is necessary.
>>83617107
It's not like Before Watchmen was necessarily some great sin against humanity, but did it really need to be a thing?
>>83617597
I guess so
thank goodness we're not utilitarians
>>83617633
It would be like making Citizen Kane 2: Electric Boogaloo or some shit.
>>83617690
Comcis don't have a Citizen Kane though.
>>83617690
Alan Moore would call you a manchild for comparing comics to Cinema
>>83617748
>what is Watchmen
>>83617774
Alan Moore hasn't been relevant since the 80's.
Here is the Hypercrisis Playlist, for anyone who wants to see it.
If you have any suggestions for things I should add to it, just give me a link to the video you want and I'll add it, providing it isn't stupid.
When's the next Morrison thing coming out?
>>83617811
>what is Watchmen
A meh comic.
>>83617811
a good but overhyped limited series
>>83617841
Forgot link, because I'm retarded.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq-_SviLVAhy1xISPECRHxTXQmryaw-xH
>>83617846
go read Heavy Metal
>>83617882
Good shit. I'll check it out later, because I'm already watching/listening to stuff right now.
The Rebirth special came out on the 25th, the reverse of 52.
>>83617774
I dunno why he would, drawing parallels is a harmless exercise.
>>83618093
He needs no excuse to complain. It's what he does. It's in his nature.
>>83616527
>>83615318
>>83614441 btfo
>>83616276
In the sense that the model of the Multiverse was probably inspired by the structure of energy levels in an atomic model? Almost certainly. It's a pretty common sequence in nature, given how entropy works and objects in the universe arrange themselves according to differing gradients.
>>83616472
Johns' one main weakness is that he just can't create OC stand-ins like Morrison to represent the themes that he wants to incorporate. He HAS to appropriate something that already exists, even when he has to hack around the edges to get it to fit.
>>83618302
his weakness is his lack of subtlety
>>83618435
Sometimes that's not necessarily a bad thing. But as Darkseid War proved, he's a much better character writer (working with themes and events on a literal, materialist level) than dealing with big metaphysical cosmic allegories.
>>83618562
I chalk it up to him rushing to finish up and get to his DCEU duties.
I remember hearing Fabok had to a crazy amount of hours to get the art done in time because he didn't want a fill in artist.
still his JL run in general was uneven
>>83618753
Yeah, it bounces from shit at the beginning, to pretty good, to legitimately great with Forever Evil, and I'll defend Amazo Virus too.
Then he just dropped the ball hard with Darkseid War.
The whole run just feels like he had a million and one ideas and either couldn't deliver on enough of them, or just flat-out forgot about them in the rush to get the other characters and ideas out.
>>83616240
im kind of surprised dream and nightmare are different realms, or at least, that Morpheus' Nightmare creatures inhabit a different realm altogether.
>>83616384
I don't think Tynion has the chops for that. It'd be very cool though.
It's likely just notArkham Knight being a shadowy mastermind with plans against Gotham.
>>83618955
Reminder that the Amazo Virus gave us new metahumans across the globe.
I generally find the concept efforts to pump up comics that are not really that good in and of themselves.
Multiversity was a good example of that (there were a couple good issues in there)
>>83619388
>haven't seen Element Girl in years
>Plastic Man never followed up on
>still no Shazam ongoing
>still no Rise of the Seven Seas
>>83616211
>>83616240
Holy shit...
Guys, the multiverse is Krypton.
Think about it. On the Monitor scale the Multiverse is covered in Superman Armor. Superman IS the multiverse because he's the first super hero. He's "the stranger from the planet Krypton"
Krypton was a pinnacle of achievement, a lost paradise, and Superman redeems it by internalizing its virtues in his character and diffusing them throughout the multiverse.
DC comics as a whole is an atom of Krypton, a message of hope and adventure and progress. We are all Superman. We are all the last sons of Paradise. We alone can redeem our lives and make them meaningful and beautiful.
The DC multiverse is a thought-atom of heroism. It reminds me of Morrison's Marvel Knights Fantastic Four where the F4 are described as an unbreakable atom of family.
Stories are like molecules. They combine atoms of Jungian archetypes...and yet the atom contains the whole. It contains its deconstructions and antithesis. It's like a hologram.
Could this be why Captain Atom had to fuse symmetries and combine Superman with Ultraman to wake up the Thought Robot Superman?
Guys this hypercrisis stuff is insane...
>>83616276
I think it was. Given how Morrison loves his holograms and emergent structures and wrote about them as far back as JLA it makes sense that he would base the multiverse on a Krypton atom.
And think about it. What did Krypton do? It exploded, and seeded fiction with Superman.
What does an atom do?
Keep in mind Grant is obsessed with nuclear weapons and the fear it causes. He grew up near an atomic submarine pen. "Before the bomb was a bomb it was an idea. Superman is an idea, but a faster, better, stronger idea than the bomb".
Remember how important atomic bomb imagery was in Flex Mentallo.
This was planned. Multiversity is Morrison's anti-bomb. He's trying to tell us that comics can be inspiring and meaningful beyond being corporate "Gentry" property.
Super Heroes can be as important as the atomic bomb. They can save us from the atomic bomb and our death-urge. They can give us a future that isn't an apocalypse.
>>83616707
>>83616802
It was still one same universe. The mandate was just that the characters handled by the Vertigo team couldn't be used by the DC proper team in any book, the same going for when the DC team was using a character.
For example whenever the Vertigo team were using Zatanna, the DC team couldn't touch her, but when the Vertigo team were finished Zatanna was free to be used by the DC team.
Heck, Constantine showed up in Brightest Day before Flashpoint. The "Vertigo Universe" was pure stupidity.
>>83619723
they wanted their magic wizard to be in a more grounded setting with ghosts and demons and wizards and monsters
>>83616472
>>83616640
>>83616737
The cynical reason is because they want the Watchman dollars.
But I don't see Captain Atom acting like Dr. Manhattan. He's not nearly as big a dick as Manhattan. He was legitimately upset that he killed a dog. Compare that to Manhattan who splattered criminals.
Compare Atom's "It's just not the same" when he puts the dog back together to Manhattan's "a dead body has just as many atoms as a living one".
It would be awesome to see the two interact though, that I agree.
>>83616793
Holy fuck. I remember this thread. It was really one of those magical moments. We read that Kamandi was looking all over a multiverse for his girl named flower and carrying her flower that crossed worlds and then suddenly we realize that there's a third flower involved.
Hokey and sentimental it may be, but fuck if it wasn't touching knowing that the DC multiverse is designed to be a hand across the water from fiction to reality.
Also, reminder that at the time Multiversity was going on the Marvel Universe was reduced to a fucking Risk board. Multiversity just slaughtered Secret Wars.
>>83616384
I thought Detective Comics was filler, while the Batman comics continued from rebirth.
>>83619963
>The cynical reason is because they want the Watchman dollars.
More than likely, yeah.
>It would be awesome to see the two interact though, that I agree.
Definitely.
>>83619440
Have they done anything with the Doom Patrol since they showed up in Justice League?
>>83620750
They sure have not. And half those people won't even be on the team.
>>83619339
It isn't does Tynion have the chops to make one, but do you have the chops to make it into one?
>>83619713
Krypton was discovered on May 30, 1898 by Sir William Ramsay, a Scottish chemist, and Morris M. Travers, an English chemist, while studying liquefied air. Is any of this significant to the DCU?
>>83619723
Vertigo was/is awesome.
>>83619713
But Krypton has 36 protons 48 neutrons and 36 electrons. The numbers don't line up. Krypton also is a noble gas that cannot form bonds and make molecules.
>>83616240
>>83616211
Just putting my two cents here:
I'm no chemist but I do know that Krypton is a noble gas, it's got it's outer shell all filled up naturally, something lesser atoms have to jump through hoops to get. In a similar vein other heroes have to form a team to share their powers and abilities to be able to due what superman can do on its own.
>>83620750
Young Animal will treat them nice. Or at least, I hope so.
>>83621105
>Morris M. Travers
>Morris M.
>Morris Em
>Morrisem
>Morrisen
>Morrison
>>83621446
>it's got it's outer shell all filled up naturally
And the number of electrons needed to fill it naturally? 8.
>>83621619
we're in too deep. i can't even see the surface anymore.
>>83621183
The numbers don't add up precisely, but the valence pattern is awfully similar, especially with eight in the outer shell.
What other elements have eight in the outer shell like Krypton?
>>83621183
You seem to know a thing or two about elements and chemistry, so how would tellurium work? It has the atomic number 52.
>>83621619
>8
>The Number of Marvel Earth
>The logo is in the style of the Fantastic Four
>In Morrison's Marvel Knights Fantastic Four he describes the team as an unbreakable atom of family
>F4 was arguably the first super hero team made from the ground up with a unified origin for all members, reflecting Marvel as the "mechanical" multiverse according to a theory going around the hypercrisis threads.
>7 is how many members were on the original Justice League
>But not really, because Snapper Carr was the 8th. Official member and mascot.
>7 is the unstable number
>7 is a superhero team without its connection to humanity
>The Justice League has been distant from humanity recently. People hate and mistrust them in the movies, comics, and cartoons.
SNAPPER CARR IS THE KEY
>>83621724
The noble gasses do. Noble gases are strong and resilient. Other noble gases are
Helium used for flight
Neon used in lights
Freon used for freezing
Strong, resilient, flight, light beams and ice breath are all Supermans powers.
Superman is noble.
>>83621619
God fucking dammit, why didn't I recognize that. I'm the science teacher over here.
>>83619963
>Also, reminder that at the time Multiversity was going on the Marvel Universe was reduced to a fucking Risk board. Multiversity just slaughtered Secret Wars.
Never forget, the Gentry metaphorically and literally killed the Ultimate universe.
>>83621928
>Superman and the DC multiverse inside and outside him is a noble gas
>His powers can be represented by noble gases
I really fucking dig this. So if DC is a noble gas what would Marvel be?
I've been waiting for a Hypercrisis thread!
Action News from the 1989 Batman
Compare the logo to Ultra Comics emblem.
>>83615318
>What do you make of the Gentry appearing in some of the DC Rebirth titles?
They have?!
>>83621105
>May 30, 1898
>5301898
>5+3+0+1+8+9+8
>34
>3+4
>7
>number of letters in Krypton
>7
>SirWilliamRamsay
>16 characters
>1+6
>7
>MorrisM
>7
>Travers
>7
>studying liquefied air
Quite similar to studying heavy water.
>TheFlash
>7 characters
>>83616527
>>83616707
>>83619723
Yeah aren't they in the same universe now though? I'm currently reading Sandman and I noticed he is referenced >>83616240 here though.
Can Sandman show up in other DC stories or adaptions and games and stuff? I want to see him more.
>>83622077
>83622077
>22077
>77
Holy shit.
>>83621881
>7 is how many members were on the original Justice League
>But not really, because Snapper Carr was the 8th. Official member and mascot.
The original Seven Soldiers of Victory were also a team of seven that had eight members (the eighth being Wing, the Crimson Avengers sidekick). Morrison's Seven Soldiers also had the motif of groups of seven that were actually groups of eight. For example, the Seven Soldiers themselves had the secret eight member of I, Spyder and Zatanna's support group had seven member plus Misty Kilgore.
>>83622221
Did Morrison's Justice League have 7 members plus one rotating one, or six core members plus one rotating one? I forget now.
>>83621770
It is a non metal which according to outer electron shell has properties similar to Oxygen and Sulfer.
>>83621105
>the Ramsay guy is scottish
>Morrison is scottish
>Morris
>Morris Son
>1+8+9+8=26
>two guys, 26x2=52
Do you think Grant has metaphorically had sex with the DC universe?
>>83622047
A fart?
So, any of y'all evermake a hypersigil?
>>83622480
No, only the regular kind.
>>83617949
It came out May 25th
5/25
>>83622480
Isn't that how we got Constantine back?
>>83622516
Why not? Never had the desire? Never gotten around to it?
>>83622588
>how we got Constantine back?
Didn't the new Constantine comic suck? Or is there something else (besides that four episodes of a TV show)? I've been away from comics lately.
>>83622047
How can DC be a noble gas if it's already reacted with other comic universes to create new compounds? (Charlton, Fawcett, National, Wildstorm, etc)
Unless it's Xenon.
Xenon is a slut.
>>83622588
There's gotta be something going on in the JSA storytime threads because we got Legion and JSA announced at the same goddamn time.
>>83622671
>Xenon is a slut.
Say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens.
>>83622698
Thunderbolts also worked, though not so well
>>83616737
Nah countdown arena def used watchmen universe >>83616737
>>83616737
>>83622089
Which Sandman are you talking about, Wesley Dodds or Dream?
>>83622671
They didn't bond or react with DC. It was diffusion.
>>83622524
Huh. My birthday was on the 25'th, and I turned 25.
>>83622733
If they announce a Hawkman ongoing then there's definitely sigil shenanigans.
So on a scale from 1 to 10 how likely is it that the gentry will be able to infect our universe?
>>83623049
They already have.
>>83622738
Dream. Gaiman Sandman. The others were copies of him basically. In universe. And he deals with the DC universe so much but it doesn't seem to go the other way around. Is it a rights thing?
With the chemistry, Krypton is atomic number 36. Earth 36 is Optiman.
>>83619963
People keep saying that Manhattan is a cynical character- but they keep forgetting that he had an ARC.
Manhattan is not the cause of "love" being taken out of the DC universe. It's the Gentry. I wouldn't be surprised by a splash page of Manhattan fighting the Empty Hand.
>>83621183
>>83621183
>Earth-36 is home to Red Racer, an alternate Flash who was fundamental in fighting the corrupted Nix Uotan in Multiversity, while they're fighting for Earth-8, the same one mentioned here: >>83621619
Earth-48 is home to the Forerunners, a species of multiversal protectors who were designed to fight Darkseid.
>>83616737
>Most people would be able to tell it was 'supposed' to be Doctor Manhattan anyway.
Then you'd be saying "Why didn't they just use Manhattan?"
>>83623182
It has more to do with content. DC didn't want kids to pick up a Superman/Hellblazer crossover and think that Hellblazer would be appropriate to read, only to see Constantine snorting the bones of Saint Nick.
>>83622089
He can, and has, notably when Daniel showed up in Morrison's JLA, and when Death talked to Lex during Blackest Night.
>>83622635
The first new 52 Constantine sucked. Constantine: The Hellblazer relaunch as part of DCYou was pretty good, though. At the very least it felt much closer to the originals. Hopefully the Rebirth book brings us even closer back.
>>83621183
Yes, Krypton is noble.
>>83623409
And the social class below the nobles in society? The gentry.
>>83623324
36
8
48
Are our Krypton Numbers
52
Is our multiverse number
Are there any connections between these numbers?
>>83623324
Aren't the Forerunners the aliens who build the Halos in Halo?didn't have a way around saying it twice there.Darkseid manifested in another fictional universe as The FloodHypercrisi
>>83623318
Manhattan may be responsible for fucking up the DCU, but I'm not about to attribute it to malice. We don't know the full story yet.
>>83623409
>>83623476
>>83623486
This Multiversity Chemistry stuff needs to be saved. Its really good.
>>83623503
>Darkseid is Gravemind
That...actually kind of works...
>>83623517
I hope Johns doesn't make him into a one dimensional Superboy Prime. I'm praying for some sort of satisfactory twist.
God, can he just sit down and talk to Captain Atom and Superman? Just a comic where they talk would be fucking awesome.
>>83623486
36 twice
36 positive and 36 negative
48 neutral
>>83623379
Don't forget Daniel himself is still the son of Hector and Lyta Hall and even steps in to prevent the Spectre from killing them during Day of Vengeance.
>>83615318
>What do you make of the Gentry appearing in some of the DC Rebirth titles?
As far as Rebirth goes I've only read Superman, Batman, Flash, Detective Comics, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman. When did this happen?
>>83623538
I wonder what they're going to do with Earth 0 Captain Atom. In the New 52 they cranked his power level up to reality-warping levels but his actual character wasn't really like Doctor Manhattan. Earth-4 Atom has a similar power level but is almost completely dissociated from "reality".
>>83623539
36 is death. Optiman was killed by Super-doom.
36 is life. Red Racer survived the infinity infinite mass punch that he thought would kill him and saved Earth-8 from Evil Nix.
48 mediates life and death. It's based on Earth-6 from the first Multiverse which was one of the first to die in COIE and protects the multiverse from the death that is Darkseid.
So what about that Marvel vs DC thing that happened a while back. How does that fit into this whole Hypercrisis thing? How do crossovers in general work with Hypercrisis?
>>83623626
>how does [x] fit into this whole Hypercrisis thing?
Does it make for a good story [ ]Yes [ ]No
If Yes, then it is indeed part of the Hypercrisis.
If No, then you can safely ignore it regardless of what current canon claims about it.
>>83615318
this stuff is pretty silly. I'm a big Marvel guy and to be honest all this feels like DC fans grasping at straws to make their books "smarter."
>>83623677It's called having fun, anon.
>>83623540
Hector is Carter and Shandra's son, right?
How were they related to Dr. Fate again?
>>83623544
Go check out the detective comics storytime thread.
>>83623544
Reread Detective with Hypercrisis on the mind.
>>83623698
Yes.
There's some Hawksnarl curse/reincarnation shenanigans involves with him and he gets reborn as the new Doctor Fate during Johns' run of the JSA. I forget the details since it's been awhile since I've read it.
>>83616527
Now how do we work Rebirth into this
>>83623677
>He doesn't know that the Hypercrisis is real
Uh, guys...?
I am somewhat inebriated right now anons. As someone who just recently purchased the $50 harcover Multiversity, is there any way for me to save this thread on my smartphone or at least go back it via an archive?
The comparison of the map of the multiverse with the structure of the krypton atom/element shit is too much for me to comprehend. Fuck. Help me out somebody, i wa t come back to this shit when I got coherent in the morning.
>>83623762
I don't know that guy on the right? His lightning bolt is close to Captain M-Shazam's but it's backwards?
>>83623787
Bookmark the thread? It should redirect to the archive if this thread dies.
>>83623677
>Earth-14 is mentioned in Animal Man as a great place with purple butterflies.
>It's one of the unknown worlds in Multiversity
Morrison, you sly mother fucker...
>>83623677
Some of it is just playing with numbers. But stuff like the Multiverse being based on a the atomic structure of a noble gas and >>83616793
are clearly parts of the story. Especially the flower thing.
>>83623762
Who is the guy on the right?
Personally, I foresee Manhattan as just being curious as to what would happen if ten years were removed from the DCU timeline, without realizing the ramifications such an effect would have on the people within the DCU.
From his perspective, it's a matter of origins shifting, costumes changing, relationships having never begun, and friends having never met. It would all be a curiosity to him in the same way that we observe Earth-0 and the other multiversal Earths from a distance.
From the perspective of those in the DCU, it's something much more heavy than that. It's a matter of existence and non-existence.
>>83623787
Just keep the tab open on your phone. 4chan auto-archives threads up to two or three days after they conclude.
>>83623762
Not the most accurate pic of Adam Warlock, but yes. If you want to see them, there are a lot of similarities. I started combing through Starlin Warlock but I had to put it down.
>Empty Hand is Ultra Comic's "Magus"
>>83623662I actually liked Marvel vs DCMore specifically I liked Amalgam, but you know. But it pose a serious question, because in the story Flash starts to lose access to the speed force, so is it stronger in some Earths or something like that?
>>83623756
It mostly revealed the truth about Flashpoint so you could list it alongside there rather than as a separate step
>>83623677
When you make a creative work of fiction it encourages creativity in others. It develops on its own like a living entity.
But in Marvel recently whenever their worlds cross over its to kill things. Like how Slott went murder-happy in Spider-verse and Hickman went hyper-genocidal in Secret Wars.
DC is life. Marvel is death. This is why Ultimates died in Multiversity than in Marvel and why Earth-8 almost died as well.
When Morrison crossed over Marvel and DC he had the DC heroes team up with the Avengers to save the multiverse from cosmic evil.
When Hickman crossed over Marvel and DC he had Dr. Strange rape the justice league to death with Ctulhu before Namor nuked the planet.
DC is life. Marvel is death.
>>83623835
There's JLA/Avengers where the Speed Force outright does not exist in Marvel, so they have to rig up a special device to allow Wally to gofast when they hope dimensions.
Not sure how Barry's "I am the Speed Force" thing would be affected by that, if at all.
>>83623834
One better is to look for one of his Guardians of the Galaxy era costumes with the double lightning bolts on his chest.The red on Ultra Comic's chest is/was supposed to be double lightning bolts, and the yellow arrow was the negative space.
Now get this. All atoms have isotopes, the same elemental atom but different number of neutrons or neutral particles.
Krypton has an isotope with 52 neutrons.
This isotope form is designated Krypton-88.
Krypton-88 has a half life of 2 hours 50 minutes.
>>83623834
I found the picture in some spanish blog the other day. What was the gem Warlock had? Soul?
Also, i'm guessing Ultra was designed on purpose to be reminiscent of both Mar-Vell and Miracleman (BTW, wasn't Miracleman's nemesis a pastiche of Doctor Sivana?)
>>83623889
Marvel seems more interested in tearing down its Multiverse than building it up. "Secret Wars" ended with Franklin Richards creating new universes, but it's unlikely we'll ever see those universes outside of a select few, such as the Spider-Gwen universe. And I'm sure Marvel has plans to fold Spider-Gwen into Earth-616 proper, much like how Miles and company were folded into Earth-616.
Or is it Universe-8?
It's honestly rather sad how Marvel will probably never make their own Multiversity.
>>83623834
>Empty Hand is Magus
Oh fuck this makes too much sense.
I thought there was a connection between Ultra and Adam, especially sense Grant admitted to being a big fan of Jim Starlin Marvel growing up.
Both Adam and Ultra are artificial messiahs created to save people. Adam eventually turned his back on messiah-hood and became The God Slayer. Ultra didn't.
Adam fought his evil side. Ultra was corrupted into his evil side.
Both Magus and Empty Hand want a static, unchanging world. They want a world of drones and toys that will die for them again and again and again.
Adam's Soul Gem is like the Imagination Crystal in Ultra's head. Both were able to connect people on an intimate and spiritual level.
Adam killed himself to kill the Magus. Ultra lives on...
Any similarities I'm missing?
>>83623953
Hmm, looks like Sr88 is the stable isotope with the same atomic weight, but I don't see anything special about its numbers in this case.
>>83623379
Okay I didn't know that. I was just thinking, as an inspiring writer, I'd use the Endless way, way more in DC stuff. I fucking love them and they can fit so well. Just having Dream in characters dreams. Sometimes even he he's just sneaked into the background somewhere.
>>83616916
I forget what he called it, but Morrison mentioned this I think in the promotional stuff for Multiversity. Or in Supergods. Basically, if a universe has multiple universes similar-but-different to the main universe that makes up a multiverse, then each multiverse itself would have the same thing happening.
>>83624002
It's funny I compared the death of Earth 2 in the DCU post-New 52 to how the Ultimate Universe died over on Marvel's side, but god damn DC refuses to let that book die. They threw Abnett on to fix it, and by all intents and purposes it looks like he's actually succeeding.
>>83623809
>>83623830
Thank you guys.
>>83623889
>DC is life. Marvel is death.
They really are.
>>83616916
>>83617077
>>83624058
I think you guys are thinking of Hypertime. I personally still want to make some kind of a chart to explain how I think Hypertime fits in with the main multiverse, given that both theories seem to contradict each other.
>>83624064
I hope so. You can never have too many non-Earth-0 books, after all.
>>83623953
>Start off thinking Krypton didn't have anything to do the multiverse structure
>Now this comes to light
Ahahaha holy shit. 52 and 88. 52 was saved by saving Earth-8, even if its ultimates double was lost.
...I'm starting to think the 2 hours and 50 minutes thing means something.
>>83616998
Yes. Flashpoint. Basically, since the Vertigo heroes were mostly sequestered, when Flashpoint remerged Vertigo and added Wildstorm to DCU proper, it was explained that these three universes were pulled apart to weaken the world for something huge and that when Flashpoint happened, Pandora was able to get them pulled back together.
>>83624129
Hypertime basically just states that "If there is a story about it, it exists in continuity SOMEWHERE".
>>83624058
I think he said something in Super Gods about it.
Each world can belong to more than one multiverse, basically. Like how molecules can bond to one another by sharing electrons.
It's multiverse chemistry. Holy shit this is awesome.
>>83618276
So this is the universe where Indianapolis Colt Peyton Manning is the last son of Krypton?
>>83624129
What the fuck is stopping you from making it dude?
I would love to the chart.
>>83623987
I stumbled upon the same blog post myself almost a year ago.
It isn't really discussed much at all from what I could find, but I totally buy the Warlock/Ultra Comics connection.
I just haven't dug up much more than the surface similarities
>Mar-Vell and Miracleman.
I get where you're going, but I haven't had the chance to read up on them.
As far as some kind of shamanic connection to an alter-ego, I just made the association with Ultra-Violet Mentallium from Flex Mentallo. Instead of something that's crippling and confusing to the character, it's central to their existence.
>>83623953
1988
>The Killing Joke is published
>Superman's 50th anniversary
>Action Comics #600 (considering some anons mentioned 36 as well as 48, which are multiples of 6)
>>83624174
>Each world can belong to more than one multiverse, basically. Like how molecules can bond to one another by sharing electrons.
>It's multiverse chemistry. Holy shit this is awesome.
>crossovers are a result of atoms sharing electrons within covalent bonds
Fuck me
>>83624184
Would love to see the chart*
Still here, still drinking.
>>83618955
I think his role as Top Creative Guy hurt him , too. On JSA, he had years to slowly weave plotlines and threads in and out as he went. On JL, he kind of seemed to have to cram everything in a box and not follow up that well, and few characters got time to really develop. Still, he gave us Justice Lex, which is truthfully one of my favorite things to come from Nu52.
To the anon that asked about tellium element 52, thats it atomic number or protons.
The element with atoms of 52 particles protons neutrons and electrons is Chlorine.
And chlorine has 7 electrons in the outer shell.
>>83624150
Yeah, but it could then be argued that if a story such as "Batman: In Darkest Knight" existed, then it would exist in the Hypertime of Earth-0 being the prime DC universe, making Earth-32 redundant.
My theory is that Hypertime exists, but in a much more controlled state determined by the prime timelines of the universes. All pasts and futures exist, but only one past/future becomes the prime timeline that is followed in any "official" sense. While the events of "In Darkest Knight" could have happened on Earth-0, it is a fact that they did not. The events of "In Darkest Knight" happened on Earth-32, and thus they became real on that Earth.
Or something like that. I feel like I need to flesh out more examples to get it all down pat.
>>83624184
>>83624272
Mostly I'm just lazy, busy with some other projects I've been working on, and also I can't figure out how to illustrate it pictorially.
And, as I just said, it's something I need to flesh out a bit more.
>>83624064
>he's actually succeeding
Is the book about Kendra, Alan and Jay again?
>>83624291
>poisonous gas
>Has the unstable number 7 without the 8th secret member
This is getting kind of spooky...
Do we actually know anything about empty hand beside him being a possible personification of several ideas but his actual origin besides being a villain for villains sakes is a mystery ?
>>83624136
50 and 2. 52.
>>83624323
>Earth-7, which stands for Ultimate Marvel, was completely corrupted and turned into a HQ of sorts by the Gentry.
>>83624311
Shockingly, yes.Alan just gave up his ring in order to power their new world via Starheart. Not sure that it's going to be a permanent status quo, but it's nice to see them completely erase Taylor's bullshit with the Avatars
>>83624257
Continuity is the result of alignment. When a bond is broken the structure of the molecule changes. Crisis on Infinite Earths left a single universe "multiverse" for awhile.
But matter cannot be created or destroyed. Simply re-arranged.
If you put the pieces back together, the story comes back to life. Like how when you read a Pre-crisis work it becomes "cannon" again.
New Earth was a hydrogen atom that wandred around in idea-space until it found a molecule to bond back to. When it crosses over with Marvel or whatever it hooks up to another element and forms another kind of molecule.
Stories cannot be destroyed. The Empty Hand is finished.
>>83624323
Halogens are fucking serious business. My older brother works as an engineer in a factory that produces bleach and chlorine for industrial suppliers and it's half funny and half terrifying to hear about what could happen if one thing goes wrong.
>>83616240
what the hell is kywzz?
>>83624302
Props to you my man. I'm fucking HOPING that the Multiversity will not just be pushed aside and eventually forgotten about. Multiversity Too aside, I'd like this event (?) or whatever it's considered to have a bigger impact in the long run. Especially Empty Hand.
>>83624323
Poison gas? Chlorine because of its 7 outer electrons bonds with sodium with one lone outer electron to make salt, NaCl, a core and essential molecule for life.
>>83624369
>>83624323
Oh fuckkkkkk
7 is the death number. 8 is the life number. We need to remember this.
What if the Gentry come from a multiverse-molecule that only has 7 in its outer valence? It would be missing one that the DC multiverse has. They would be missing a Hell or Heaven or whatever.
WHAT WOULD THEY BE MISSING?
>>83619440
Rise of the Seven Seas has been handed over to the guy writing Aquaman. So that at least is coming
>>83624382
>Shockingly, yes
You're shitting me. Seriously? When does this start? How much of the Taylor/Wilson crew are still eating up page time? When does the shift happen, Abnett's first issue?
>>83616211
>Krypton 38 particles
>Multiverse 52 worlds
sorry but it doesn't add up
>>83624405
>Stories cannot be destroyed. The Empty Hand is finished.
Stories cannot be destroyed as long as the audience still wants those stories. What the Gentry and the Empty Hand do is coerce the audience into not wanting those good stories, the heroic stories, the stories that advance development and characters in meaningful ways, anymore.
They're a competitive inhibitor that supplants the typical substrate of a reaction and prevents new product from being formed. Like how carbon monoxide preferentially bonds to hemoglobin over diatomic oxygen, and as a result prevents red blood cells from transporting it to cells in the body.
>>83624334
He's corrupt Ultra. The Gentry basically wrote themselves into existence.
He represents event comics and modern comic book story telling. No adventure and no creativity, just shock and death. Thor is a woman. Cap is a Nazi. Avengers Academy kids died horribly. Ultimates died horribly.
Remember what Nix says to the lil justice league about them dying again and again for the amusement of the Empty Hand and how in The Just the death of Earth-7 is described as happening in a crossover book called something ridiculous and like "Genocide Crossover X?"
That's what he is. He's death and murder because you can't think of anything better to write about.
>>83624439
Stop what you're doing and go read The Human Race.
>>83624513
Yes, pick it up from Abnett's first issue. Taylor and Wilson's characters are still there, but they're much more in the background (Val has given up being Superman entirely, for example), and the focus has mostly been on Alan, Power Girl and Huntress, and Kendra for the past few issues.
>>83624550
You better not be toying with me anon. I couldn't bear to watch anymore just three issues into World's End. Please.
>>83624350
>>83624136
>>83624257
STOP MAKING SENSE
>>83624456
>With one lone outer electron to make salt
Bingo. The one "secret member" that makes a team of eight like in Seven Soldiers and Justice League. The human element.
7 is necessary, like how the outer church was necessary in The Invisibles, but it has to be modified in some way to avoid destroying everything.
Without the eight "heart" a super hero team is doomed to destroy itself. Without a human element the idea of the super hero is self destructive.
>>83624456
So the 7 in the JL can be bad but if they have a bond to that one thing they can become a foundation for life.
What is the Justice Leagues sodium that creates life?
>>83624591
>Without the eight "heart" a super hero team is doomed to destroy itself.
It doesn't destroy itself as much as it REALLY FUCKING WANTS THAT EXTRA ELECTRON and will react with damn near anything to get it.
>>83624516
Isotope anon. Krypton-88. It fits even more than if Krypton had 52 electrons.
>>83623953
>>83623830
Manhattan wouldn't kill people just to protect his experiment. He probably needed the time and love as some way to make himself stronger to fight Empty Hand and the Gentry. What if Manhattan split himself apart to view the different universes and when he tried to reassemble one of his duplicates refused to join? It could have become corrupt like Mandrakk thus becoming The Empty Hand.
>MoS SDCC 2013 panel
>It lasts 52:48 from beginning to end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHix9bBIFws
>>83624623
So if the neutrons in the nucleus represent the worlds of the Multiverse, what do the electron shells represent?
>>83623835
I somewhat interpret the Source Wall as the barrier between those universes, which makes the Marvel Universal Construct and the DC Universal construct very, very alien to another, and having different rules.
Marvel vs DC can be explained by those two entities finally noticing each other and choosing to have the multiverses within interact, as seen in the story.
JLA/Avengers is brought about by Krona getting as close to breaking through the Source Wall as he or anyone ever can or will. All Marvel DC events previously (Supes/Spidey, and all that) came about as Krona's shenanigans reverberating throughout time and space.
>>83624445
I swear I'll personally kick Cereal King's ass if he does something stupid like make Dr. M the Empty Hand.
>>83624591
But careful there. If the 7 chlorine bonds with hydrogen a true lone electron atom you get hydrochloric acid.
>>83624654
....Y'know, I like this theory.
>>83624463
New Genesis. In their multiverse Apokalips was free to BTFO the other realms of the gods.
The result was a multiverse that died for Darksied again and again and again.
>>83624516
Earth 38 is based on John Byrne's Superman & Batman: Generations, and is a direct continuation of the pre-Crisis Earth-3839.
>>83624519
I swear I'm going to steal this Multiverse Chemistry stuff for my own writing. It's too damn good to stay stuck on a message board.
>>83624659
SHIT
>>83624728
Don't forget our speculation way back when about viral RNA helices too.
>>83624662
The 8 valence electrons outside the 52 particles nucleus are the 8 Spheres of the Gods outside the 52 universe multiverse.
>>83624609
>react with anything to get to it
Consider that in light of
>>83624519
It really fits.
>>83624606
Snaper Carr, an average human.
Consider all the casuals that hate Superman because they "can't relate" to him.
>>83624516
Wasn't "Action Comics" #1 published in 1938?
>>83624811
Of course, human beings crave narratives to craft around themselves. If you prevent one from forming, it's just replaced by another. One way or another a story will be told.
But sometimes we need to make sure that it's the right one.
I love Hypercrisis threads because nowhere else can I talk about postmodern literary theory, theology and biochemistry in the same thread.
But fuck it's almost two in the morning and I have work tomorrow.
>>83624302
That's kinda how it works in Quantum mechanics, the way I understand it is particles move around everywhere in a sea of probability until they are observed and become a fixed part of that reality.
>>83624963
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. You can either tell where an atom is located, or its speed, never both, because as soon as you observe one of them, it changes the other.
>>83624519
If the story ends then the DCU ceases to exist right? If there is no more reality even in thought the Empty Hand wouldn't be able to survive either, could he be doing this to commit suicide?
>>83624588
Seriously, it's downright decent again.
Wilson reintroduced Hourman as a villain before he got the boot, and Abnett was just like "fuck that" and now he's a hero.
>>83624777
This fits way too well.
>>83625109
Or perhaps he's like evil Deadpool, who wanted to destroy fiction to end a neverending cycle of senseless stories where all characters suffer again and again for the amusement of the reader.
>>83624668
Kinda like M-theory but for the multiverses.
>>83625193
I've always described the Hypercrisis as the Grand Unified Theory of Comics.
I know it's kind of autistic, but I edited the multiverse map to include extra dimensional that Morrison didn't include when he made the map. I know there is more, but I only put something on if I felt that it was absolutely in the place that it belonged. I made it using the DC Atlas and this wikipedia page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_locations_of_the_DC_Universe#Extradimensional_realms
Maybe this will create some more discussion.
>>83624680
Watch them go balls to the wall with Rebirth/Multiversity with Dr. Manhattan, The JLA/JSA of the multiverse, all the lantern corps, every magic user, AU Atom, Lucifer Morningstar, The Spectre, Superboy Prime, Darkseid, the universal parliaments, Heaven and Hell, The Endless, and The Anti-Monitor all uniting to fight Empty Hand and The Gentry.
>>83625189
Sounds like Crafty from Coyote Gospel.
>>83625109
He doesn't want to end stories, he wants to reduce stories into the mindless shock value that rehashes the same stingers and twisted world views but don't actually possess anything of substance or let their settings or characters grow or develop.
They're not stories that help humanity, like my example with enzymatic inhibitors, they're imitations, close enough to produce a response, but provide none of the benefits or products of the real thing.
>>83616527
That's really helpful
>>83616527
What was earth 9
>>83625361
Reminds me of what the Wizard Shazam said about Sivana draining all the magic out of the rock of eternity.
>>83623756
We really need to learn more before we can know for sure
>>83625291
>Number of unknown worlds
>7
GUYS...
>>83625426
FUCK
THERE HAS TO BE AN EIGHTH SOMEWHERE
>>83625463
It'll be hidden just like all the other 8ths
>>83625361
Is Ultra Comics Marvel?
>>83624777
Eights disguised as Sevens, is there any way that Dante's Heaven, which we've already linked to with the Multiverse being a flower, can be seen as an Eight?
Or maybe Purgatory, tiered off after the Seven Deadly Sins?
Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon has Eight Deadly Sins, but I can't recall what the Eighth is.
>>83625463
Earth 14, I think, the one at the top of the map, is splitting, and was described as a way for new worlds to enter the Orrery.
It's the hidden Eight.
>>83623677
I very much prefer dc but I do think the way they handle retcons and to a lesser extent there multiverse in general is there biggest weakness.
For me these threads are a way to wring some enjoyment out of DC's bullshit
>>83625564
True. Grant Morrison and DC Exects should just look to Hypercrisis threads for their ideas.
>>83624107
>>83623889
>DC is life. Marvel is death.
No dummies, DC is order, Marvel is chaos.
>>83625557
And it's directly beneath Wonderworld.
Could they be guarding it?
>>83624002
>It's honestly rather sad how Marvel will probably never make their own Multiversity.
A shame I really wanted to like multiversity but I just Couldent enjoy it for the most part and I think it's something marvel could do a better job of.
Of course I read very little marvel so maybe they would be even worse I dunno
>>83625612
If anything DC is Chaos though.
>>83625476
No, be he tried to be. "Major Comics" is Marvel in Multiversity.
In real life he succeeded which is why Ultra is from "our" world. Our alignment of Marvel Comics is Gentry infested. Because of course it is.
>>83625655
>I think it's something marvel could do a better job of.
When has Marvel ever done stories about the nature of reality and stories though? They just do space wars and superhero-on-superhero fights.
>>83625661
Not at all, this thread proves it, look at all these images, look at how DC treats its continuity. It all has to fit, it all has to be explained. You have to be on Earth 1, if you're not E1 then you're E2 or some other Earth, which is not as "good". Time travel is orderly (you know, for the most part), travel back in time and you will affect your future.
Marvel is the other way around, wild universes, you're on Earth 171725716371, fuck it, it's just as good as E 789487! Wild time travel, come back to the past? 4 different divergent timelines have just been created, who gives a shit? What's continuity? Etc.
I need screen caps of this thread. I need to add the caps of this thread with the others to share in future hypercrisis threads.
>>83625670
Lord Broken = House of Ideas?
>>83623677
It absolutely is, but, most importantly, it's fun.
>>83625564
>but I do think the way they handle retcons and to a lesser extent there multiverse in general is there biggest weakness.
Absolutely disagree there. One of DC's biggest strengths is when they do retcon things, it's always got a direct root cause. For instance, Jason Todd always died, but he was brought back after the fact by a Crisis event. A further Crises event altered that again, but the first event was not a lie; it's still part of the overall continuity.
Marvel, however, retcons things on an individual basis, so any single part of a story can be completely unwoven on a whim. Marvel's is filled with tiny microfractures and only looks solid if you don't look at it close enough.
>>83625780
What is this from? Red and yellow color scheme with green hair suggests The Creeper.
>>83625780
I don't think so, but I think it can be interpreted that way. Thing is, I think fans would LIKE to interpret Multiversity as a fuck you to Marvel, but I think Morrison is above that. He is speaking about all fiction, not just two companies.
>>83625844
Hyperion
>>83625844
I think it's The Visions by Tom King.
>>83625700
>When has Marvel ever done stories about the nature of reality and stories though?
Kid Loki, Agent of Asgard, Earth X trilogy, Ewing's Ultimates, Gwenpool, several chunks JMS Spider-Man
>>83625905
Like he's saying that it's bullshit how stories introduce new worlds just to set them to burn, and it just so happens that Marvel just had an event like that?
>>83624699
Sweet Jesus.
This wasn't planned, it happened coincidentally.If that's not proof that the hypercrisis is real I don't know what is.
>>83625905
Dude, all the Earth 7 heroes are clear Marvel homages.
>>83625905
Plus he totally rebirthed Marvel's X-Men into some next level concept material that's still playing out to this day. He just came in and blew that '90s "untoppable" relaunch era out of the water.
That's not hate. That's a very very weird form of love.
>>83626025
And his We3 superpets are escapees from Marvel's Weapon X ('Plus) program,
He doesn't allow legal red tape to stop his brain machine from making more concepts out of thin air. Roll with it.
>>83624369
>>83624463
wait
>Marvel 616 was in fact 616-7
>coming back after Secret Wars bumped it to 616-8, which allows Iso-8 to form normally
>Iso-8 was used to turn Galactus from a destructive force into a creative force
>Ultimate Marvel, 1610-?
>a lot of cornerstone entities in most Marvel universes are missing or fake
>Gah Lak Tus is just some ancient Kree weapon gone rogue
>was overall edgier with more pointless death and suffering
>1610 was essentially incomplete and unstable, is the only universe so far not rebuilt by Franklin and Reed Richards
