Rucka is back!
>>83555273
>Sharpe only doing 6 pages
>>83555273
>chris conroy & mark doyle
how based can this be?
pretty certain now we won't get a retcon of azz's origin.
Artgerk variant
FIN
>>83555383
>Artgerk
Artgerm*
That's Stanley Lau.
>>83555383
That's hot.
>>83555335
>chris conroy
Which books has he edited?
>>83555190
Yeah her old origin pre fllash-point is coming back.
>>83555525
Midnighter
Batgirl (the recent one that /co/ hates)
Red Lanterns (the Soule run)
Swamp Thing (also the Soule run)
Wonder Woman (the Azz version)
Aquaman (the Parker run)
Black Canary
>>83555335
>pretty certain now we won't get a retcon of azz's origin.
I wish we do. I loved his runs, but turning the amazons into rapists, assassins and baby killers was bad.
i wonder if he'll use the continuity errors to explain like donna troy or something
>>83555920
That really is the only setback of that entire run. But hey, at least we got best bro.
What is this atrocious lettering
>>83555997
That's why i'm hoping for a half-retcon. Rucka can retcon the island and the amazons with the whole "they kept a bunch of lies", but keep the gods and the adventures Azzarello wrote as it is. He'd be just changing the past of the amazons, which were only really told to us, the readers, and WW, by other people.
>>83555920
Why is it bad that he added some cracks to the Amazons armor? That's far more interesting than just some perfect society of women
>>83555920
Frankly I think that the Amazon's get their story back because of this arc...save for Artemis and that's why she's a "Fallen Amazon" when she falls in with Bizarro and Jason Todd.
>>83556095
How is it interesting? What does it add beyond making them cunts?
>the story keeps changing
I actually really love how there's this continuing theme of continuity unraveling post-Rebirth, even if the books themselves don't explicitly tie into the main plot threads from that issue.
>>83555273
what's the point of the braces if she is immune to bullets and lasers
By the opening Arc's end, I predict Diana will have reclaimed her story, and in this arc they will acknowledge how this idea of Wonder being the question rather than a sense of awe is representative of her as a being of clay presently in a malleable state.
>>83556095
>Why is it bad that he added some cracks to the Amazons armor? That's far more interesting than just some perfect society of women
Because it wasn't just a some cracks. He turned them as evil as he could and the whole thing doesn't make no sense. Really, his amazons were underdeveloped.
Think, how can Diana be such a nice person if she was raised in such a toxic culture for years? How can the younger amazons not know about the rape parties? Wouldn't make sense to drill that shit in their heads since the beginning, thus making sure that they'll be 100% prepared and for it when the time come instead of only letting them know when their time come? How can Hyppolita remain a good supporting character when she approved and condoned the whole thing despite being a hypocritical bitch?
>>83556176
See >>83555662
>>83556091
Moreover, we were told that past by Hephaestus, who might have good reason to make the Amazons look bad. Not only is he the guardian of their male children, but the Amazons are sacred to Hera, whom Hephaestus hates. And since Hephaestus hates his own mother for GOOD reason, it's understandable that he would have a grudge against other mothers who abandoned their children.
>>83556156
gets rid of the whole "without men society would be perfect" shit
>>83556231
>>83556270
And yet Morrison did it so much better with his Earth One.
>>83556248
They were a society that sustained themselves on a horrible act. Honestly how is that different than any other society?
Although you have a point about how it wasn't more well known in their culture.
>>83556270
You can do that without fucking turning them into rapists, back-stabber assassins and baby killers/traders.
That's akin to making the Waynes into satanists.
>>83556095
You can make them flawed without making them objectively evil.
It's not the be-all, end-all take by any means but Morrison managed to do it in EO. There was multiple ways to do it other than what Azz did.
>>83555307
he's drawing all of issue #1
>>83556270
So your only answer is that an island of magical women triggers you?
What >>83556364 said right here. When did interesting become "murderous baby trafficking sociopath"?
>>83556156
To make the point that the world that the Amazons came from (the Classical world of Ancient Greece) was a violent and brutal place and that the Amazons (and the Gods) were that legacy and that Diana tried to break away from it all.
What does making Amazons perfect bring to the table? To justify why WW go out to the world and impose her system of values on people. If patriarchy was black/female and WW was white/male, Tumblr would be screaming sexism/racism/imperialism because at the end of the day Wonder Woman's "mission" is no different from the White Man's Burden/Civilizing Mission except with FEMINISM.
>>83556472
It's almost pointless to argue with you because you seem to think Amazonian perfection is the only alternative to what Azz did.
>>83556364
Its funny because that's how Thomas Hurt tried to hurt Bruce, by marring the memory of his family with just that by means of elaborate fabrication thanks to the Hunter Killer Idea weapon.
>>83556231
When she needs to deflect an omega beam or superman heat vision
>>83555273
>invulnerability
DROPPED
>>83556472
Then you missed the whole point of the amazons m8. They're not actually real human y'know, they're supposed to be like elves and shit-a mythical race that is highly advamced.
>>83556248
>He turned them as evil
No he showed that they were a product of their era (which was the classical civilization of ancient greece) who despite its enormous cultural influences razed entire cities, sold all their inhabitants into slavery, fed people to animals and engaged in barbarity that made would make ISIS blush.
>>83556582
I think motion is meant to be implied, judging by the bullets that deflect off of thin air.
>>83555273
>>83556231
>>83556582
Wait, I get it. She's not invulnerable, she blocked all those bullets in motion, the artist is just shit and couldn't depict that.
PICKED UP.
>>83556472
What does baby killing and having a rape culture bring to the table?
Loving this so far. Based fucking Rucka. Wednesday can't come fast enough. These Rebirth issues are knocking it out of the park.
>>83556020
I agree, please get a new letterer.
>>83556693
Yeah, just realized that
>>83556674
>No he showed that they were a product of their era (which was the classical civilization of ancient greece)
See, mang. The amazons weren't as violent not even in the fucking myths that depicted them as fucking batshit crazy. If he had followed the myths, like you're saying here, the amazons would bone nearby villages and give the male kids back to the men.
>>83556696
The Manazons, which were an interesting addition but were thrown in the garbage by the Finches
besides
>rape
It wasn't, get over it already
>>83556612
They were an intentional reversal of the common perception of the Amazons. The Greeks made them up as anti-woman propaganda, so Marston made them into peace loving hippies.
But even Marston didn't portray them as totally flawless. No writer has. A good way to spot a casual/idiot is if they think the Amazons are written as perfect and always right about everything.
>>83556674
But the Amazons shouldn't be products of the era. They're supposed to be an advanced civilization.
>>83556495
>you seem to think Amazonian perfection is the only alternative to what Azz did.
You seem to miss the fact that what Azz did was in response to a) Amazons being put on the pedestal as an ideal nation without the malign influence of patriarchy to the point that b) Wonder Woman doesn't even have a biological father a fact that was considered a sacred cow by the fandom.
>>83555273
I like this look
she went back to looking like a woman, and not the finch teddy bear hugging girl.
>>83556696
internal; conflict
Glad to at least see the New 52 costume again.
>>83555216
>brunette Hippolyta
>blonde Hippolyta
I wonder if they will ever give a definitive reason to all the retcons.
>>83556819
>internal conflict
That goes nowhere
>>83556851
she grew up, accepted that hers was a flawed nation that she had big shoes to fill as the Queen of the Amazons.
>>83556851
It was addressed and it was supposed to be something to explore further until the Finches shat all over it.
>>83556743
I am not talking about the myths. I am taking about shit the ancient greeks themselves actually did. Razing cities, selling people into slavery, treating non-citizens and women and children as disposable property were all shit that were seen as common everyday cultural practices. The Amazons and what they did in Azz's book was perfectly reasonable from the standpoint of a cultural viewpoint that didn't give a shit about human life that wasn't from your local city-state and only if it had the similar background and gender as you.
>>83555920
It's easy to alter though. Like just make it Ares's fault that the Amazons had to do that, or maybe make Hephaestus not be giving the whole story.
>>83556806
>A
The Amazons are supposed to be advanced, they're supposed to be a hidden civilization rich in culture and technology.
>B
Who her father shouldn't even matter, the parent who should matter to Diana is her mother.
>>83556928
It has been retconned by Johns already, at the beggining of Darkseid War.
It says Diana and Grail were the only children born on the Island (until they revealed Diana's twin brother)
>>83556806
>You seem to miss the fact that what Azz did was in response to a) Amazons being put on the pedestal as an ideal nation without the malign influence of patriarchy
They've never been that, though. Amazons Attack, anyone?
>>83556972
Johns is worthless. Especially with Wonder Woman.
>>83556988
>anyone?
I don't think anyone wants to deal with that ever again.
>>83556902
Having the amazons be baby trafficking murder rapist isn't a flaw it's a fuck-up.
>>83556988
>Amazons Attack
Yeah, the story everybody also lost their shit because the Amazons were doing bad things.
>>83555363
Can Wonder Woman fly now?
>>83556919
What does have to do with them in modern times? Or as fictional amazons?
The creator never would wanted the rapes, killing and etc.Azz dark themes don't fit the rebirth era.
>>83557051
>The creator never would wanted the rapes, killing and etc
Just slavery, every year >>83556771
>>83556919
The Amazons are not the ancient greeks and trying to make them into Ancient greeks is shit writing.
Damn, looks like Rucka using the Rebirth special to take DC's constant retinkering of WW to task...
>>83556819
>>83556905
>>83556919
Could you guys explain too me then why Wonder Woman doesn't hate men, doesn't want to rape or kill men, doesn't want to drown male babies and so on?
Because let me tell you something, if she grew up in such a place she should be like Aleka. You can't have both ways. You can't have the Amazons Princess that love the entire world, even villains, and that want to bring peace and understanding to the land of men, and also have an island full of men hating baby killer cunts.
Diana should be the daughter of Penthesilea and Achilles.
Not Zeus and Hyppolyta.
It makes so much more sense and fits in with actual Greek legend.
I don't ask for comics to be accurate to legend, but at least give lipservice to it.
It's not the 60s any more where you need to actually read books to learn legends
Wiki that shit. That'll be enough for a baseline.
That way you don't have drunk archeologyfags bitching.
>>83556919
. . . The Amazons weren't Greek. Technically, they were Scythian/Saurmatian.
It you want to try and pull the Historical Accuracy Card.
>>83557065
Slavery or old mating rituals? Marriage used to be arranged. This is just that in reverse.
>>83555789
Seems like a solid list to me.
>>83557094
That was the point, it was always kind of the point of Diana even before Azz's run. She was unique amongst the amazons in her love for man's world.
>>83555920
>turning the amazons into rapists,
All the sailors they had sex with were into it.
>>83555363
Can Wonder Woman fly now?
>>83557094
Because Diana is "special".
She was always fascinated about Man's World.
Sometimes shit washed up on shore and she like the god damned Little Mermaid was all about that shit.
Then Steve showed up and she geeked out and went native pretty quick.
IMO, Diana should be a begrudging acceptor of Man's World.
Like, she goes to the mainland to make the world more peaceful. Not as an ambassador, but rather as a cruise missile.
But she learns to cool down.
That's a better arc, I think, than always having a predilection for non-Amazonian shit.
>>83557154
So the counter to pointing out the disparity is "That's not a bug, that's a feature!"
Doesn't really help the argument, Anon.
>>83557094
It was heavily implied that they weren't the strawman you think they are. They talk about not agreeing with each other. There were other Amazons leaving the Island.
>Dessa, give me the boy. You don't want to throw him to his death...
>...I never did. EVER.
>>83556905
Besides, Diana didn't feel she was like the others because of the clay story.
>>83557197
My point is that it's an integral part of the character. It's not even a new plot device. Did you complain about this in Jungle Book or Pocahontas? Christ, you must be a pain in the ass to discuss anything with in real life, you pedant.
>>83557154
>>83557185
>it was always kind of the point of Diana even before Azz's run. She was unique amongst the amazons in her love for man's world.
But before her queen and the close amazons were all peaceful people that had no hate for men, only disappointment and prejudice. Azz's amazons were making constants puns about castrating Hermes, like they were salivating at the mere thought of it. That's the difference.
Before the amazons were all "Oh, yeah. men are all violent fools. Forget about them, princess, and continue to eat my cunt". Azz's amazons were all "MAN, I HATE MEN! HAVE I SAID HOW MUCH I HATE MEN YET? I TOTALLY HATE MEN!".
Not a huge fan of some of these one-shots not using the main artists (or even using people on the 2nd art teams for the biweeklies). Just kind of drives home the point that they're a bit worthless to the main story. Yeah, I know Sharp's on the last few pages, but still.
>>83557251
>"Oh, yeah. men are all violent fools. Forget about them, princess, and continue to eat my cunt".
Hope this is a line in the new movie
>>83557251
>Azz's amazons were all "MAN, I HATE MEN! HAVE I SAID HOW MUCH I HATE MEN YET? I TOTALLY HATE MEN!".
Sounds like you didn't even read it.
>>83557181
She's been able to fly since new 52 anon. Do you not remember her kiss with SM in the air?
>>83557254
Sharp is overrated tbqh
>>83557283
Go back and read it. They were hunting an injured god and making jokes about how fun it would be to castrate and kill him, all because he had a dong. They kept going at it for the longest time, until they were forced to ally with the outside world to save it and themselves. Even then they didn't liked very much the idea.
>>83557039
she's been able to fly for ages
>>83555216
>>83556823
Considering how most of the DC Gods operate on people's faith in them, perhaps Diana's origin is in a constant state of flux as a side effect of our constant reinterpretation of Greek Mythology
Sort of how Donna Troy is a sentient paradox
>>83556696
>What does baby killing and having a rape culture bring to the table?
To show the shit that she rejected. That the stuff she was against even within her own culture.
>>83557181
Apparently. IIRC, Rucka has usually written WW as being able to fly.
I personally don't recall her flying in Azz WW or even, from the little I've read, Finch WW. But in other places, she's flown: the kiss, Superman 52, and some other places. It's weird because -- as usual -- there's not much consistency with it. And a lot of that is because they never suggest her fastest possible speed.
>>83557237
The different is that before they were moderate and after they became extremists.
>>83557207
>Dessa, give me the boy. You don't want to throw him to his death...
>...I never did. EVER.
That happened after all the bullshit they went through. Even so it was just one among several.
>>83557369
>Considering how most of the DC Gods operate on people's faith in them
How the fuck do the New God's work then?
Or even the Greek gods? Since only Amazons care about them.
I doubt your statement.
>>83557335
Yeah, and that was one time, when they were trying to scare invasors, and lasted like 2 pages.
They hated men otherwise, but just the silent bitterness as always.
>>83557237
And that point doesn't matter. Even acknowledging that it is part of her character, no version of the story before required or hinged on turning the Amazons en mass into, well, what the Ancient Greeks thought of them.
Monsters. Literal perversions of the natural order.
Taking something that was basically conceived as a Heaven-like place ("Paradise Island") and turning it into Monster Island is a pretty big misstep.
Historical Accuracy my ass, we're talking about Wonder Woman here, and she was conceived with a very specific purpose in mind. So, sullying that works against the framework and the heart of the character.
Just to nail the point further, both Wonder Woman: Earth One, and The Legend of Wonder Woman managed to put Amazons in an Adversarial Position to the protagonist without resorting to vilification.
>>83557404
>To show the shit that she rejected. That the stuff she was against even within her own culture.
That shit should still influence who she is. It makes no sense. If the Kents had been serial killers, Superman wouldn't be the same person he is.
>>83555273
So she's back to her old costume AGAIN? What happened?
>>83557039
>now
>>83556095
There's no point to Diana being from a different culture if she's radically different from the rest. She takes noyhing good from the Amazonians, her fighting skills are given to her by Ares, her powers and the positon from which she interacts with her cast were inherited from Zeus, she just has her sense of right and wrong and didn't get it from anyone on the island, because everyone on it is a rapist or compliant in baby murdering. Why wasn't Diana just turned into a normal girl who finds out she's the daughter of Zeus, if they were just going to divorce her from the amazons like that.
Worse still, nothing was done with the evil amazons, so the change was for nothing and it's a real tough change to revert.
>>83557285
She's been able to fly since 1985.
>>83557285
Wonder Woman has been able to fly for decades, Anon.
>>83557411
>one among several
One of the most relevant ones, among "several" that never spoke what they believed.
It's easy to assume that at least a lot, if not most of the Amazons who gave birth to sons didn't want to give them.
Traditions kept by weaknesses. That's what Diana says.
Hyppolita, the queen, approved, instilled and enforced a culture where rape parties, mass assassination of innocents and the killing or trading of infants for weapons were seen as not just normal but righteous. This despite herself falling in love with a man who she kept meeting to fuck.
That is Wonder Woman's mother. The person that raised and gave WW her morals.
I'm sorry, but no.
>>83556806
It's not a comprehension problem. Everyone knows what he was aiming to do but he did it poorly and that's the complaint. It was not nuanced in any way and made them just look evil rather than merely flawed.
He had a good run still but his Amazons were straight trash.
>>83557500
>She takes noyhing good from the Amazonians
Wrong. She's proud of being an Amazon because she shares their values.
>Her fighting skills are given to her by Ares
Additionally to her Amazonian training.
>her powers and the positon from which she interacts with her cast were inherited from Zeus.
The Amazons are not regular humans and it's very possible most of her powers comes from being an Amazon, except the God Mode.
>she just has her sense of right and wrong and didn't get it from anyone on the island, because everyone on it is a rapist or compliant in baby murdering.
Traditions that do not negate other values.
Did the Spartans have no good values to teach, no sense of right or wrong, because they practiced infanticide? All their culture was "evil" because some of their practices?
>>83557537
>It's easy to assume that at least a lot, if not most of the Amazons who gave birth to sons didn't want to give them.
Too bad we never got to see that shit, right? Not even a group of sorrow amazons mothers complaining.
Instead we see one or two showing signs of not being okay with it while everybody else is not only okay, but into it. That was the culture WW grew up in, but for some reason she is still a perfect snowflake.
>>83557317
The more I see that skirt drawn the more I'm convinced it was a bad idea. I thought it would be easier on artists than the Fabok skirt but it really isn't.
I don't even like how Frank draws it and he's one of my favorite artists when it comes to drawing clothes.
>>83557682
>Spartans
The Spartans aren't exactly a good example of a people that should be respected for their morals.
They had some good ideas, but their society collapsed because how their treated their slaves.
>>83557682
>She's proud of being an Amazon because she shares their values.
Where's her hate for men? She should find their weakness gross. She should find their behavior appalling. She should constantly curse them. She should be like Frank Miller's Wonder Woman, but she isn't.
Come on, anon. Nu52 WW should reflect somewhat the toxic culture Azz created. She should be more rough and hateful. Sure, be a hero, but she should act more like Squadron Supreme Zarda or something.
>>83557682
>The Amazons are not regular humans and it's very possible most of her powers comes from being an Amazon, except the God Mode.
Example of Amazon super strenght
They probably aren't nearly as strong as Diana, but she gets part of her powers from them as well.
>>83557774
The problem is the dick fringe.
It should be equilength all around
>>83557718
>everybody else is not only okay, but into it.
Signs that the Amazons didn't like to do that are not enough... while signs that "EVERYBODY ELSE IS INTO IT" are non-existent, and yet it's a fact?
>>83557885
It is, because every time a group of amazon showed up they were unreasonable and hateful beyond sense. Only one or two were sympathetic.
>>83557834
Have you ever thought that the culture ISN'T as "toxic" as you think? If you actually paid attention to what you read instead of projecting everything after based on 1 issue, you would see that there was plenty of room for dissidence, and they fucking show it.
>Oh, yeah. men are all violent fools.
>>83557946
>because every time a group of amazon showed up they were unreasonable and hateful beyond sense.
Sure, m8. I will just stick to the truth, thanks.
>>83555662
Nah, I doubt it. How would the brother twist fit there?
>>83558001
>Have you ever thought that the culture ISN'T as "toxic" as you think?
That's because Azz wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
Wonder Woman for some reason never got to know about the rape voyages, the assassinations of innocent men for sex, the kidnapping and trading of male infants and so much more. Perhaps the other young amazons weren't aware as well, because otherwise they'd have gossiped about it and WW would have heard, and you can't have that because Azz wanted to keep Wonder Woman innocent and naive beyond common sense.
The whole set up doesn't work. If the rape voyages are necessary to maintain the island existence or else the amazons would all age and die with time, then how can they keep the whole under wraps only sharing the secret with the young and impressionable amazons when it's time for them to rape and kill men they've never met? Wouldn't such a shocking revelation and imposition surprise and revolt the young amazons thus putting the whole gamble at risk? Wouldn't make more sense to drill the necessity of such traditions since a very young as to ensure the cooperation of the young amazons?
The whole secrecy thing makes no sense and the only reason it exists is so that WW can remain naive and innocent, or else we would have Frank Miller's WW in our hands.
You know i have a point.
>>83558275
She knew about the raids, she just didn't knew about the boys.
>rape
There's that word again. You should stick to your tumblr approved comic, yeah.
>>83556091
this. the amazon stuff was the only part of the azz origin story that felt weak. the gods were awesome though.
>>83558318
>She knew about the raids, she just didn't knew about the boys.
She didn't knew about the raids.
And it was rape.
>>83558108
That is a good point.
I've never seen anyone as desperate to defend poor creative decisions like Azzfags do with this. As if admitting this one flaw means that his run was bad. Every WW run has some bullshit in it. Like Perez not having Steve as a love interest which basically led to a weird chastity thing.
>>83558353
She might have known. She knew the other young Amazons had mothers, and she thought they were all girls because of divine intervention. She never questions or reacts to the raids, she reacts to discovering about the male Amazons.
It's of no consequence anyway. Amazons would comprehend they needed to do it. Some would resent more than others. And it's not far fetched that they would cover it up out of shame, even if the shame was from having to copulate with men.
>>83558437
>Like Perez not having Steve as a love interest which basically led to a weird chastity thing.
I'll always curse this, because this not only made her an eternal virgin before but also gave the writers an opportunity to keep having her pin for the married Superman, which got picked on by other writers who would constantly use her as Superman's bitch in the various Elseworlds.
Every time you write Steve out, writers will have Superman creep in some form or another.
>>83558437
>I've never seen anyone as desperate to defend poor creative decisions like Azzfags do with this.
Probably because AzzWondie was the best WW in literally decades.
>>83558437
>I don't like so you can't like it, stop arguing!
Learn to live with the differences, man
>>83558353
>And it was rape.
I agree with you on the other points, but killing someone after consensual sex is murder, not rape.
God I hate these Rebirth covers of the heroes holding up a weapon. I can only think of the "so randumb xD *holds up spork*" pasta when I see them.
>>83558536
>She never questions or reacts to the raids, she reacts to discovering about the male Amazons.
She was horrified about the raids and more so about what the amazons did to male children. She didn't knew. If that had been something the older amazons shared WW would have been an entire different being and that's the exact problem here.
Azz tried to separate WW from the amazons, making her a naive outcast who couldn't fit with the others in the island, and then he wrote the rest of the amazons as cunts to show the readers with a dark secret.
>>83558553
>Probably because AzzWondie was the best WW in literally decades.
I think it's the best and think the Amazons were a misstep. It's not necessarily one or the other, anon.
>>83558553
maybe one decade
>>83558437
I legitimately like what he did with them. I don't think it was "necessary" (so what? things don't need to be confined to what has been stablished), and I don't think it should be present in a mainstream depiction like an animation or a movie, but it was interesting.
It was poorly handled after he left, so I don't really care about it being retconned.
>>83558634
>She was horrified about the raids
She never reacted to the raids story. Read again.
>>83558536
>It's of no consequence anyway. Amazons would comprehend they needed to do it.
Or they would revolt in disgust. Centuries, men. Are you going to say that a large group of young and naive amazons had never revolted after such a revelation in all these centuries?
Think. You grow and your parents are all nice and dandy, but then in your 17 anniversary they come and say that is time to fuck and kill a girl you never met. You'd just roll with it?
>>83558753
You're still considering that they should be perfect, and so a revelation like that would be completely shocking.
They are resentful of men. Some more than others. They are created like that. It doesn't mean they are "UNREASONABLE AND EVIL AND CRAZY" like you see them.
They have values. Diana shares them. Diana might have been resentful to men as well, but she was curious, she wanted to see for herself.
And again, she was not the first Amazon to leave the Island. Until Johns retconned that, at least.
>>83558708
>It was poorly handled after he left, so I don't really care about it being retconned.
No, it wasn't. If there is one thing the Finch did right was the amazons reaction.
You've an island full of warrior woman that never accepted men, that hate them, some of them old enough to remember all the bloodshed and sacrifices they had to go through to get there, and then the new queen who never seemed to understand her own culture come and say that now there will be a bunch of men in the island and that they'll have to learn how to accept each other? Fuck no. The amazons would kill those fuckers the first chance they had and that's what happened.
The way Azz wrote the amazons there would be 0 chances of reconciliation.
>>83558869
Hello Meredith
>>83558708
>It was poorly handled after he left, so I don't really care about it being retconned.
Actually, you've made me realize I've changed my mind. Azz's change worked well for his story, and I like its place within that run; I've cringed at how he treated the Amazons because I knew it would limit other, future stories, though, and would ultimately either ruin future runs (as happened with Finch) or end up forcing retcons (as it seems to be happening now).
As a fan of story > continuity, I guess all I can hope for now is that Rucka doesn't waste arcs on getting the status quo from Point A to Point B. A soft reboot of the island is all that's needed, but he's probably going to use a sledgehammer for at least one arc.
>>83558915
>I guess all I can hope for now is that Rucka doesn't waste arcs on getting the status quo from Point A to Point B. A soft reboot of the island is all that's needed, but he's probably going to use a sledgehammer for at least one arc.
Yeah, it's all about "lies". Lies about the lies.
>>83558915
I don't think he'll waste multiple arcs, just this first one to get it out of the way and develop the brother stuff.
Covers of relaunched #1's for next week
>>83559073
I mean final, folks.
>>83557408
She gained that power from Hermes at some point
>>83559073
Gordon sure regrew that moustache quickly.
It's bizarre that there seems to be such a hard reboot in action, but not actually in universe.
Like what's actually changed?
Nothing much.
>>83558941
>>83559002
Yeah, I've come to accept the first arc as gone; my worry is that Rucka might go full "not muh" and change as much as possible to how he always envisioned the character. Which could be fine in itself, but he seems to be taking the "write the plot to provide an explanation for everything" path, which makes me scared that it'll bleed into future arcs.
>>83559109
>>83559121
He's said quite a few times that what he wants to do is make Diana's continuity make sense, not raze it to the ground again and start over again
>>83559125
Bonus
>>83559125
Superman looks like Frank Castle here
>>83559167
>old Supes still has no shorts
AAAAARGH
>>83557500
The most damming example would be how heph and his boys taught her the joys of loving submission.
>>83559207
that cover is a flashback to Dick as Robin having an adventure with the JL
>>83559164
Still a bit too metawanky for me, but it's enough to keep my hopes up.
>>83559121
From what I read in interviews it's not going to be like that. More like just make it more "standard Wonder Woman". The retcons have been made already, before him, so I don't think he will focus too much on that.
And from what I saw he respects Azzarello's run, and Liam Sharp has said he enjoys it.
Also, he said that he wanted to make the gods a bit different this time, more classical but "mysterious and dangerous", because both he and Azzarello already did the "modern gods" and so he wanted to take a different approach this time.
>>83558738
Not while it was being told, but after she did.
>>83558856
>You're still considering that they should be perfect, and so a revelation like that would be completely shocking.
No, i think that if the rape voyages and assassination of innocent sailors for the purpose of reproduction had been kept secret from the younger amazons that a lot of them would be disgusted and revolted with the revelation.
Use your brain. You're an young amazon. You grow up in a beautiful paradise with nothing but women like yourself. You're taught that the world outside is ugly and violent. Then one day the elders come and say that you need to get pregnant, that you need to lay down with the ugly and brutish men and not only that, but kill them afterwards. You're told this is necessary. That this has been happening since the beginning. That this is the only way the island can exist.
Wouldn't that shock you? I would start to see my elders as that they taught me to be wary and hate, i would feel betrayed by them and everything they taught me, i would wonder about the outside world and what more they lied and kept from me. I would revolt.
And if the rape voyages weren't kept a secret, i would probably condone all of it and thus not behave like WW did in the book.
>>83559224
Literally why though?
Rebirth is supposed to be all about "Gee, we're sure sorry about Nu52. Let's suck your dick for a bit".
Why flashback to postFlashpoint pre52 stories?
>>83559276
JL #51 is not part of Rebirth, that's why
JL 51 and 52 are just filler issues
>>83559271
>Use your brain. You're an young amazon. You grow up in a beautiful paradise with nothing but women like yourself. You're taught that the world outside is ugly and violent. Then one day the elders come and say that you need to get pregnant, that you need to lay down with the ugly and brutish men and not only that, but kill them afterwards. You're told this is necessary. That this has been happening since the beginning. That this is the only way the island can exist.
>Wouldn't that shock you?
Not really. It's "necessary to keep the Island". A sacrifice.
It's not like there isn't real world societies that make human sacrifices and shit, and they accept it.
>>83556823
Going from the first page, they might be implying that Diana was a child of clay given life by the gods BUT Hippolyta did have a legitimate son fucking Zeus, and kept that hidden, hence why people think Diana is Zeus' daughter.
>>83559268
I see. I'm not judging it before it comes out, but I will keep tabs on the title and am hoping to be surprised.
>>83559327
>Not really. It's "necessary to keep the Island". A sacrifice.
You're simplifying. If the young amazons are taught that men are gross, that men are evil and later are told to lay with them and kill them behind their backs, then they're given contradictory lessons and they will fucking question it. Wonder Woman did. Wonder Woman went against it.
The whole thing makes no sense. The amazons were under-developed.
>>83559298
JL #51's new solicit is a prelude to Titans Rebirth #1.
>>83555190
So I want to order this issue to have it deliver to my house in the states (it's Rucka on WW so it will sell out) because I will be out of the country on tuesday.
What is a good website that does comic deliveries?
>>83559339
Want to guess what that Jason was Hip and Zeus' kid while WW is still made from clay.
>>83559339
Maybe, but remember that she was suppossed to be the Daughter of a God now. And she showed us her godly powers. How do you explain the powers if she is not the daughter of Zeus?
>>83559410
For single issues? EBay or TFAW but it can be a little expensive thanks to shipping.
>>83559462
She got it from baby Zeke.
>>83559462
>How do you explain the powers if she is not the daughter of Zeus?
She was given power by the gods.
>>83559462
Blessings from the gods
>>83559339
There are literally saying her memories from the past timelines and the current are getting muddled. At least that's what I'm getting from the whole Rebirth thing. The memories are all getting muddle.
>>83559467
Guess I am going to have to do that or rlse end up paying outrageously expensive money for the comic later on.
>>83555789
Fuck. Most of this list is my jam, but they need to get a better artist on the book. Cliff Chiang was godly.
>>83559462
>>83559462
Blessings from the gods.
You know, what it was before New 52.
>>83555216
Honestly, I never liked this origin. Making her just a demigod just isn't as appealing since it been done to death, the clay origin is just more creative.
>>83559985
I like how this version is more vague. Gives some mystery to Wondy's origin.
>>83559985
I liked her being Hercules' kid in Morrison's OG. It meshed well with the rape origin and gave a good reason for her occasional bloodlust. It gives her a conflict. She's sweet and want to work for peace, like her fellow amazons, but she also hunger for discovery and conflict, which she tries to keep in check.
Seriously, why Zeus? Why not Ares or Hercules? Zeus fucking boring.
>>83559164
There is no way to make sense of all the Wonder Woman iterations, they're just too different from each other.
>>83559985
Nah fuck that, the clay shit was retarded.
N52 did it right.
God dammit I like that they're bringing back legacy but they're also unfixing the fixes.
Fuck.
>>83560155
The clay shit isn't retarded, retarded are the people that don't understand creation myth.
The Zeus shit is boring. It turned her into a more boring and vanilla Rule 63 Herakles.
>>83559167
> Tim's costume
> Red Robin as a JL member
> No J'onn
He's in space to be fair, but still. This is a cool cover though.
>>83560267
That's still Dick's costume
The crotch arrow is right there in your face and not in the good way
>>83557181
Am I missing somethign here? I thought she could always fly
>>83560155
There are choices beyond clay and having her mother have an affair. Like just having her be a shipwrecked normal child adopted by Hippolyta and blessed by the gods. Or any other number of things really.
Either way her origin doesn't really matter to Diana. It's mostly important for Hippolyta's characterization.
>>83560560
She couldn't in early new 52
>>83557039
Seriously?
>>83559462
Her mom is half god
And she was made via old testement tier wankery
>>83560663
I think that's because of the stolen 10 years.
>>83555305
>/k/ in a nutshell
>>83561678
That gun is hilariously phallic.
Interviews:
http://www.newsarama.com/29250-rebirth-wonder-woman-is-6-2-strong-striking-all-woman.html
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/13/wonder-woman-rucka-sharp-scott-on-how-dc-rebirth-impacts-diana-prince
http://www.comicosity.com/interview-rucka-sharp-and-scott-rebirth-wonder-woman/
>>83560207
Created from clay is a common mythology trope. Comics been seeped in reality is what's retarded.
I hope Rucka retcons Azz rape thing into just amazons keeping them as slaves for kinky times.
>>83561678
> artiest draw a gun next to his penis
they know there making erotic fan art
>>83560137
because Zeus is obviously
>>83558390
>>83558108
I figure the brother was born from Zeus. She was actually born from clay. Greek God switcharoo.
>>83564079
True, but it's still better than the common daughter of Zeus trope, now that's just lazy.
>>83557469
Nicola Scott's part of the book is set in year one.
>>83555335
>how based can this be?
well...
>Cucka
not very
>>83558708
>and I don't think it should be present in a mainstream depiction like an animation or a movie
The Nu52 isn't an Elseworlds universe, man, it was the main publishing line. Instead of just accepting it when comics become this fucking ghetto of dark stories no one but collectors in their 30's read, why can't we fight to have them once again be the True Story that sets the standard the adaptations should follow, for all-ages audience, like they used to be?
>>83557113
>Penthesilea
Didn't she got killed by Achilles?
>>83555216
This was kind of unremarkable. So far, none of the Rebirth books have done it for me, and I was kinda hype for some of them.
Actually, Action Comics, the one I was least hyped for because of Jurgens, actually looks the most interesting with Lex of Steel. Although the preview where Supes gets angry and decides to go and confront him for no reason was a little annoying.
>>83559207
>giving a shit about this
AAAAARGH
>>83559164
>giving a fuck about continuity instead of telling a good story
Well, I just kinda lost my interest in this run, his first mission is just to stitch together canon so neckbeards can sleep better at night.
>>83565525
>>Cucka
>not very
Nigger stop spouting shit. Rucka's run was miles better than that gods wank fest of Azz.
Shit's gonna be good.
>>83567874
>miles better than that gods wank fest of Azz
Why was Azz's run a "gods wank fest"?
>>83555305
A fucking ugly Wonder Woman
They have to fired this fucking editor
>>83555332
Wonder Woman look like a tranny in panel 3
>>83567989
Geez you think it maybe because Azz foxused heavily on the gods and Diana and the amazons?
>>83565418
Both are lazy tropes, can we stop fighting about it
>>83556280
Why are her boobs laughing
>>83568235
>book about Wonder Woman
>focuses on Wonder Woman, Amazons and Greek Gods
I'm... failing to see the issue here.
>>83567808
Using continuity and past references can be used to make some great stories. Like when Robinson's Starman using references from the past, and Ostrander's Hawkworld and Johns' Hawkman.
So what are the chance of Rucka of turning this run into full on SJW mode? I mean Rucka is a big feminist already but given all the bullshit that's been happening on that front what chances are their we will get Tumblr pandering on the level of beating up a guy for "mansplaining"
>>83568369
Its the guys shooting at her boobs who are laughing.
>>83555216
The clay baby origin is back in semi-canon? Nice.
Fuck the daughter of Zeus shit.
>>83568495
He is not that kind of one.
Marvel has the tumblers one on thor.
>>83557094
Originally, the Amazons were immortal and all remembered the horrible fucked up shit men did to them and others when they were obedient daughters and wives before they rebelled and got their own provate hidden Polii as Zeus's guilt charity. Diana, born afterwards and having never even seen men, was rebellious against her thousand or so immortal mother figures. Diana was raised to be loving of everyone to the point she became a Violet Lantern just because of how she feels for all people, and the Amazons never figured that would apply to men.
In Azz continuity, its because the aforementioned love is borderline a superpower that kimd of came from nowhere. She felt like an outsider among the Amazons so it wasn't as hard to reject their teachings of "All men are Always Chaotic Evil" as soon as she spent five minutes with a dude who didn't try to rape her.
>>83567383
Their tragedy was that they fought as equals as the Amazons defended Troy against the Greeks as it was being razed. Both scored a killing blow at the same tins, his to her neck and hers to his weak heel with poison and their eyes met as they realized they were about to die and fell madly in love. But since Amazons dwell with Artemis and Achilles had chosen a life of glory and an afterlife reserved for nobodies when offered the choice as a child they remain apart forever.
When Odysseus visits Achilles' shade in the underworld, he's bitter as fuck and realized he'd gone full retard in his decision.
To be honest, the whole anti-man island thing had no point in the first place.
You can have an immortal society of women warriors.
If a guy gets shipwrecked and is a nice person, he can stay there and mate -if they need more amazons-. otherwise, they magic mindwipe him and send him back. They can only give birth to women. You can make or not make diana special by making her a demigod. The end.
Neither azz's amazons intensity of anti-menism or the previous are in any way interesting or useful. it should be abandoned, eventually.
It's not a concept with any value and even as a fluff "it's dangerous" because it keeps leading to the same dumb storylines and giant pink elephants.
>>83559167
Having these last two issues with the new logo and new number layout is going to trigger me to no end
>>83555273
wow what the shit is this? Liam Sharpe can't even manage to do the full first issue of his run?
They have to put fill in artists on pages 1-15 of the FUCKING FIRST ISSUE?
Damn I am so disapointed.
>>83570298
The poimt is that the Amazons have no external influence on their culture until Diana becomes a superhero.
You could have Amazon men as the sons of a few of the originals who grew up and wed other Amazons though. Maybe pattern their culture on Bonobos.
Like this vid.
https://youtu.be/82GUjPConiE
>>83570931
I don't think "adopting" a mortal man who'd last like 50+years tops every couple of centuries would influence them that much.
Besides, they come into contact with gods and gods come into contact with the world.
Action Comics #958 final cover
>>83571026
No, like the infant sons of the original Amazons, who become immortal like them when they come of age.
Gods should be their only contact, other than if you want to keep Hippolyta's spying on the world.
The reason is because Diana leaving, and what she brings back, is supposed to be the biggest shakeup of their entire history.
>>83570719
A lot of Rebirth issues are by a different artist and her creative team probably got on the book pretty late
>>83555273
wow, that art looks like shit. what a shame
>>83571043
Final covers for the remaining June 22 #1's
>>83571123
you can fix that by having the amazons only capable of birthing women
>>83571304
>>83571329
>this one gets a 75th anniversary badge
>>83571347
>but this is yet to have one
>>83571176
Isn't this what a publisher/editor is supposed to fucking do? Make sure there's time for AT LEAST the first issue to be representative of what the series will be?
I don't remember the writer or artist of *insert your favorite series/run here* to have gotten a fill in for the first issue because they just didn't know they were doing it in time.
>>83555305
Aparently, going by the top panel this series is draw by Greg Land.
Such a disapointment...
>>83571473
That's Matthew Clark
>>83571493
>>>> the point >>>>
your head
>>83571583
I'm just correcting faggot
>>83571319
You can have men, but they can't have come to Themiscyra later. They need to be full-on Amazonian men by birth or through their mothers/sisters.
>>83571794
Well, I disagree.
>>83556270
Ennis wrote one in "Land of Monsters" or whatever the feck the title was.
>>83556771
How come the tumbelrinas arent protesting this shit?
I guess for those shits, human rights is a one way street...
>>83555190
Thank you anon
Well, I'm down. I'm truly excited for this one, along with Flash, Blue Beetle, Green Arrow, and Nightwing.
Art was so-so in the Aquaman preview, but the writing was top-notch.
>>83556969
Well they're being awfully intent on changing that. Maybe after decades of only having a mother it's time to try fathers and brothers.
>>83565652
>Instead of just accepting it when comics become this fucking ghetto of dark stories no one but collectors in their 30's read, why can't we fight to have them once again be the True Story that sets the standard the adaptations should follow, for all-ages audience, like they used to be
Because that would be the sane thing to do, and we've long since past that point.
