Why is DC pushing Babsgirl so hard when Oracle has always been the better iteration of the character? Is it just to please the tumblr crowd?
>>83533930
Doubt it. Tumblr was in love in Oracle as much as everyone else.
Most likely it's just another bout of DC's schizophrenic nostalgia/hatred for anything that happened in the nineties they've had going on for sometime.
>>83533930
Babs will always be batgirl to me fuck oracle
>>83533930
Your Cassfaggotry is showing.
>>83533930
Most of the editorial staff grew up reading comics before Killing Joke or are pure businessmen who figure "Babs is the only Batgirl who's in all the TV shows, she's the only one casuals know, she should be the one we're presenting, that'll sell better than legacy Batgirls would"
We need more nimble hot red heads in skin tight costumes, OP.
>>83533930
Because Oracle can't hold a solo title, unless you want to read 20 pages a month of a cripple sitting behind a computer all day talking to people.
Because Oracle was too much stuck supporting cast role.
Because, while it may have been special in 1995, super-duper information broker super hacker, today it's really not all that special. There's plenty of candidates for Oracle-like roles in the DCU today. Even Alfred does a pretty good job at it now with modern technology at his disposal.
>>83534479
..and how is this bad, precisely? Barbara Gordon Batgirl fans have been telling people like you for decades that her ongoing appearances as Batgirl in cartoons and such was going to have an effect on comics at some point, just like how Harley Quinn was adapted into the comics.
First they tried it with blond Barbara clone and Oracle as her mentor, but then they started the new52 and took the opportunity to bring back the iconic Batgirl.
>>83534715
>people like you
You seem confused. If you reread the post you're replying to, I made no judgments one way or the other about what Batgirl I prefer or whether the editors and businessmen are right or wrong.
That said, I do wonder how Barbara's book sales compare to the Cass book since the latter managed to survive for 100 issues.
>>83534743
Barbara's sales, up until the recent months were pretty much the same as Cassandra through most of the new52 and DcYou.
Babs has peaks and dips. Right now, just before Rebirth her sales have dipped, but that's not really her fault. the rest of the DCU has been experiencing low sales in the recent months.
The books will all get a boost again from Rebirth, specially Batgirl now that she is being taken over by a new team.
>>83534930
I suppose it's impossible to make a fair comparison because modern comics sales are constantly driven up by stunts and drop in the absence of stunts. "Nu52 happened, everyone's buying the #1s. The book got relaunched with a new premise, artstyle, costume, and advertising, everyone's buying. Rebirth happened, everyone's buying the #1s", etc.
Whereas Cass's book was pretty much left alone, wasn't it? I feel like it ended right about when the summer events and relaunches trend started in the mid-00's.
>>83533930
>Is it just to please the tumblr crowd?
Yes.
The writer is a massive tumblrite who constantly complains at how sexist it was for Babs to get crippled and how hard they tried to reconnecting it from never happening at all.
>>83535119
I'm pretty sure dc doesent hire that sort of person anon.
>>83535119
Weren't both New 52 writes guys?
>>83535135
Check her twitter
>>83535157
Fucking hell why do they ruin everything
>>83535157
...
Fuck
>>83533930
>Is it just to please the tumblr crowd?
No, they're pissed about this as well. They's rather have Cass as Batgirl because that's progressive.
>>83535157
It's Gail Simone right I will have a look
>>83535353
Jesus fuck does she ever fucking stop tweeting
Although to be fair she is at an event
>>83535424
Oops meant to quote
>>83535392
>>83534642
Birds of Prey was a team book.
>>83535424
Ok I think I can see a bit of sjw there but it's hard reading It through the fucking wall of crap does she always tweet constantly like this or is it just for the con
>>83535392
Nope, Hope Larson
>>83535493
If I look at just the retweets it becomes increasingly clear that yes Dc hired a social justice warrior
FUCK
>>83535543
I didn't read CuckStew, I won't be reading this one, no big deal, there's still Babsgirl and the Birds of Prey.
>>83533930
>Barbara Gordon must be Batgirl
>God forbid any of these straight white males remain the superheroes that they are
>>83535553
Yeah that one actually looks pretty good, the story for Batgirl actually sounded pretty dumb anyways. I'll probably pull both to see how they are though
>>83535543
Alright yeah I dident need to go digging anywhere near as much here the fucking persecution complex on this women is insane.
>>83535588
I checked the Bensons' twitters, can confirm they don't have attitude problems.
>>83535652
I like the artist too
>>83535588
How the hell does Batgirl going to Asia to train sound dumb? You must think Batman Begins sucks too than... Since you know, Bruce does the same thing there?
It's actually a way more interesting plot to start than anything from Simone's run or Burnside. This arc actually takes the character somewhere other than the 5883th TKJ reference.
>>83535553
WHOA...
She also owns several cats.
>>83535786
Wait... are we already preemptively hating on Hope Larson's run? Fucking hell, /co/, keep your greasy ass autism in check.
>>83535786
>hating Gidget because the Hollywood values of the 60s are not the Hollywood values of the 10s
Pleb taste.
>>83535768
Bruce Wayne's poverty tourism is morally superior to Barbara Gordon's poverty tourism because he had dead parents and a mission, she's just trying to "find herself" like all the other directionless pampered middle class kids.
>>83535768
She isn't going there to train, she's going there "to find herself"
>>83535834
>>83535838
'Beyond Burnside' Chapter One: The Batgirl you know and love is going global with Eisner Award-winning and New York Times best-selling writer Hope Larson (A Wrinkle in Time, Goldie Vance) and all-star artist Rafael Albuquerque (AMERICAN VAMPIRE). In order to up her game, Babs travels to Japan on a quest to train with the most elite modern combat masters of the East. But when a chance meeting with an old friend puts a target on her back, Batgirl may need to use her new skills to solve a deadly mystery.
>In order to up her game, Babs travels to Japan on a quest to train with the most elite modern combat masters of the East.
>In order to up her game, Babs travels to Japan on a quest to train with the most elite modern combat masters of the East.
>In order to up her game, Babs travels to Japan on a quest to train with the most elite modern combat masters of the East.
>>83535853
Hey that sounds pretty good
>>83534642
birds of prey was Oracle's book
>>83535885
No it wasn't. Being the leader in a team doesn't mean the book was called "Oracle", otherwise Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles would just be be called Leonardo.
>>83535853
"I'm going to pause my academic progress and the business I just started to learn how to fight better" isn't how she explained it to her friends and comes across as extremely self-destructive, yet it isn't being written as if it were.
>>83535900
The team was just her and Black Canary for the first few years.
>>83533930
Everything comic books do is to appease Feminists
thats why Comic books are dying
>>83533930
>better iteration of the character
You called?
>>83535904
I feel bad for Luke. Not only was he a piece a furnuture during her previous run, now she just dumps the company she herself decided to start on him and fucks off.
>>83535786
Yeah it's not just the sjw shit even her personality screams tumblr
Although a lot of none sjw writers are like that to
>>83533930
Probably because the current writer likes her like that?
>>83535579
I don't think Batgirl was ever a straight white male.
>>83535579
>nobody knows the trouble and persecution of the straight white man.
>>83536144
You're as dumb as a fucking Magikarp. Except you're never going to evolve into Gyarados
>>83535553
And why is that exactly? Because male characters are more fleshed out and more interesting than female ones. Always have been, always will be.
>>83534479
This. It's all about legacy characters. Why do you think they tried so hard to make Clark the only Kryptonian for years? Why do you think they resurrected Hal Jordan? Shit, why do you think they brought back Barry?
It's all about legacy. DC needs to realise that it's ok for things to change if they do it for strong artistic reasons rather than gimmick. People learn to like change - look at Wally for example, or the other batgirls.
>>83535904
>judging a superhero for wanting to be a better superhero
Is it just because Babs is a woman anon?
>>83536219
>it's only ok when fiction panders to me
>>83533930
Maybe to give new readers a new look at her back in the cowl. She'll get handicapped again I'm sure, so don't worry. Comics usually redo story lines with a twist. Maybe this time she'll be a paraplegic instead of just losing her legs. They'll hook her mind up to a computer where she'll fight cyber villains as a Batgirl 2.0 avatar.
>>83536219
>always will be.
prove it beyond reasonable doubt
>>83536295
So many fetishes for rule 34, thanks anon
>better iteration
No
>>83536239
Bruce Wayne being Batman is frequently being depicted as self-destructive, even by Snyder. I'm getting "empowered woman, so strong, so brave" vibes from this new Batgirl direction.
>>83535135
They just hired the fuck that wrote this...
>>83536295
>>83536618
>just
Bennett started at DC as one of Snyder's proteges.
>>83536501
And I'm getting insecure male vibes from you.
>>83536645
Enjoy your Mary Sues I guess.
>>83536501
Uh-oh anon got triggered. He heard a female character was going to do her own thing and got scared poor baby.
I've stopped caring about Barbara since Nu52. I'll check out the first issue, but I'm not buying it.
>>83536219
>Barbra is more shellshocked by the stripping then the shooting.
>>83534642
Oracle may be all that, but there were other batgirls to focus on. Just like spending have to be Oracle (god fucking kill yourself) there were other characters already being natural, already more interesting as well. So let's just kill off Barbara Gordon and bask in the controversy sales like Marvel. Let's follow practicality all the way through.
>>83536670
>Superman fanboy complaining about female mary sues
lmao, hilarious
>>83537113
He wants people to think that the old Superman is alive, which is a bit dumb;
>>83537072
>Oracle may be all that, but there were other batgirls to focus on.
those girls didn't need to be 'batgirl'.
@83537113
Superman's not a Mary Sure. Not giving this retard a (You).
>>83536670
>stopped clock
This man is the walking definition of it.
>>83535553
>here's still Babsgirl and the Birds of Prey
It's being done by CW writers.
It's going to be shit.
>>83537218
of course you avoid my post
it's not like you have an argument
rey is a mary sue but the guy that always wins and is loved by everyone on the planet and is the moral guide for every other hero isn't!
lmao, kill yourself
>>83537162
Cassandra Cain should have been introduced as a new and unique hero ID in the 90's, instead of riding on the legacy train.
If anyone is going to argue that she would not have been as successful without Batgirl, then you're stating the obvious truth behind the bulk of her success, and not the actual popularity of the character.
Cassandra Cain, if she had been introduced as a unique hero, and DC had marketed her as a new thing, people could have judged her on her own merits.
>>83537591
She was OK as Batgirl though, it helped into shaping her to be Bruce's suggorate daughter, which was a pretty important part of her character like it or not. Babs could've become Batwoman if anything else and forget about Kate. I mean why should only Robin's pass on the mantle?
They use Babs because she's iconic.
She's iconic because she's the only one they use.
>>83537450
>the guy that always wins and is loved by everyone on the planet and is the moral guide for every other hero
Were any of this true you might have a point.
>>83538092
they are, maybe you should actually read comics instead of just hanging around to complain about superman not having red trunks anymore
>>83533930
>Is it just to please the tumblr crowd?
Who do you think it was to lose their minds when they undid her paralysis? They might be *seeking* that audience, but they got off on the wrong foot by undoing a part of her character they found inspirational and meaningful.
What it really comes down to is they want to sell Batgirl comics to people who weren't reading comics for the last thirty years. They don't want to confuse (and thus potentially put off) people whose familiarity with Batgirl comes from B:TAS or The Batman (she was also in BatB, but only, like, twice).
>>83533930
I was surprised DC let Beware the Batman get away with teen Oracle instead of making her Batgirl outright.
>>83538014
Yeah, and the fact that she's the first in the Batgirl legacy, or the fact that she's Jim Gordon's daughter has nothing to do with it.
...and shut up. Betty Kane isn't a true part of the legacy. She's a precursor to the legacy, and hasn't been the chronological first since COIE.
>>83538977
Then why didn't they just push Stephanie or Cass in those cartoons? Marvel's been pushing modern versions of character simultaneously and it's working fine for them. Why is DC in general run by nostalgiafags?
>>83539758
Cass wouldn't have made sense in The Batman, she's too dark. Cluemaster was also significantly overweight and living with his mother, he wouldn't have a kid.
>>83533930
As near as I can tell, it's because someone in power hates John Ostrander.
>>83533930
She is the one who is the most well-known as Batgirl to the general public. Cass and Steph are complete unknowns to most people outside of comics. If they were used in other media with the same frequency as Babs Batgirl, then maybe they'd still be around. But that won't happen anytime soon because the focus is on Babs.
Same deal with Robin; most of the time its Dick Grayson. Difference being he gets used enough in shows that he sometimes becomes Nightwing leaving a spot for Jason or Tim to be used.
>>83533930
Because merchandise of a girl version of Batman sells better than merchandise of a cripple in a wheelchair.
Any other reason is an excuse that /co/ uses to desperately try to convince themselves that creative decisions in capeshit aren't largely driven by executives that are only concerned with the bottom line.
>>83538112
>>83537113
So when Perry fired Clark after he found out he was Superman doesn't count?
Or when the whole world found Supes secret identity and broke into his place trashed it and wrote"alien go home" doesn't count either?
Or how Amanda Waller had a whole secret compound of kryptonite weaponry?
What about Lex Luthor he doesn't count?
Jim Gordons Bats didn't trust him and wanted him to leave Gotham.
Pr how pretty much the whole world turned against him when they discovered he lost his powers?
Go fuck yourself and read comics
>>83540099
those things didn't happen to the real Superman
Because red haired Batgirl is iconic and Barbara id going to be in the movies.
And you'd be stupid if you think half the words out of movie Barbara's mouth aren't going to be REMEMBER WHEN I WAS BATGIRL??
Bratgirl=Worse
The Huntress=Best
>>83540145
Waller having an underground laird full of Kryptonite did
>>83539758
You realize that being a Cass/Batgirl fan now counts more as "nostalgiafag" than Barbara/Batgirl, right?
I mean this sort of disgruntled jealous whining sorta made sense when Cass actually was Batgirl, and the cartoons all featured Babs again and again, but things changed since then.
You really can't call Babsgirl fans "nostalgiafags" anymore, when she's the one wearing the cowl and CassBatgirl ended 7 years ago.
>>83540099
You stupid fuck those are exceptions created for drama. Do you think mary sue means LITERALLY everyone likes the person? Are you that fucking dense you need this actually explained to you?
Superman is presented as generally beloved by all humanity...yeah his fucking enemies don't count shitbird. Their purpose in the narrative is to hate the hero.
>>83533930
What's Joker going to do to her?
What hell happened with Cassandra Cain? Its like DC erased the character completely.
>>83533930
I smell forced movie synergy. Except their movies have been failing like fuck.
>>83539758
She almost made it along with Damian in one cartoon pitch (No Man's Land with them, Dick, and Selina as supporting members for Bruce), but WB instead went with Beware the Batman instead.
>>83541705
She had just been reintroduced in Batman & Robin Eternal. She's a blank slate again character-wise (all her character stuff was with Harper Row). But she's ending up in Detective Comics with Tim and Stephanie.
>>83540073
And? It's not like there weren't other Batgirls after Babs that they could sell merchandise of.
>>83543208
But casuals know her the best.
>>83542237
Nah. Rumor is that Babs is Oracle in the movies.
>>83543102
Not completely. There was this one scene of her and Bats doing what they do best, father-daughter moments.
>with Tim and Stephanie
Still hoping for that OT3
>>83533930
It has to do with changing gender politics.
Historically women have always been fridged and attacked for the benefit of the white male hero character.
Joker shot Barbara and what spawned from that was about how Batman and Joker will always be fighting each other.
No one gave a shit about Barbara until Gail Simone got her hands on her.
It's pretty much taking a character who lived and was defined by a violent experience and moving her past that to become the hero she always deserved to be.
>>83536219
Because men tend to be more open to how they're depicted.
Let's say we flip the gender of Homer Simpson.
Woman will suddenly find him offensive, men however tend to accept and find him endearing. Only a few whine about a character like him being sexist and they do it out of some kind of point.
That's kind of the problem with writing female characters. Woman tend to like their characters blank and flat so they can just outright project onto them. It's why flawed female characters are always so rejected as sexist but perfect snowflakes are loved.
This is the reason woman consider every last character flaw is called sexist when attached to a female. Because they're too sensitive about this shit but they're also blind to when a male has that same or a similar flaw.
>>83533930
because her book is selling.
I agree that she was better as Oracle but now that she's such a big seller they can't really revert her to normal.
>>83543606
>No one gave a shit about Barbara until Gail Simone got her hands on her.
>Simone
>Not Ostrander and later Dixon
>>83543663
Put it simply, women are truly incapable of self-depreciating humor.
>>83543663
And that's why women all HATED Jessica Jones, right?
It's a nice theory, but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
>>83543606
But Simone liked writing her as Oracle.
>>83543718
Sure they can. Especially since she was rather recently used as Oracle in one of the better known comic book games.
>>83543067
It was more like all executives but one were on-board with the idea, so it was shot down, and then they pitched Beware after that.
>>83543419
Yes the best moment of the entire series.and it's mine! MINE!!!
>>83545284
Where is that exactly in the current timeline? Before he lost his memory?
>>83545465
It could be during Endgame's climax whenDick is masquerading as Batman, the Family, and the Bat Rogues are distracting Joker. Or right before all of that plan was set into motion.
>>83545565
What I mean is this setting before Cass appeared again for the first time and handed Dick his ass?
>>83545692
Yes. This is Bruce handing Cass the jump drive she'll give to Dick after handing him his ass.
>>83545740
Weird to see Cass and Bruce being all Father/Daughter-ish so early. Of course given Rebirth now that can easily be retconned as being caused by the paradox thing.
>>83540489
>Do you think mary sue means LITERALLY everyone likes the person?
YES YOU DUMB MOTHER FUCKER, THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT A MARY SUE IS
>>83545977
A law should be passed that requires a person to actually read A Trekkie's Tale before being allowed to use the term "Mary Sue"
http://www.wiccananime.com/amslt/amslttrekkiestale
>>83545939
Since Manhattan stole 10 years from pre-Flashpoint that means Cass should be something like 4-7 years old now. Oh well.
>>83545284
>Bruce acting as a nice person
glad to see people still remember that instead of him being a constant asshole
>>83543380
False rumor now that it's pretty much confirmed Jena Malone isn't playing Barbara Gordon at all.
>>83546141
Batdad is best dad. If Tynion at least makes him all fatherly to Tim, Cass, and to a degree Stephanie. Then I'll forgive him for whatever shit he does with Harper.
>>83546127
Did I see things or am I crazy did the Batman Rebirth ad talk about No Man's Land? How the fuck is that possible? I mean I can see a few things being in continuity but Huntress and Cass can't be involved in the story right?
Wasn't that the whole point of Zero Year to put a story "like" No Man's Land into the universe again?
>>83548360
The entire point of Rebirth is that it's fixing the timeline
>>83548016
mfw Batman will never hold me to comfort me.
>>83548417
So that means the antics of Cass and Helena from that event are back in? SWEET!
>>83548541
No, Manhattan changed history.
