Bring your complaints, I will answer them, but 99% of your issues can be countered by one argument, and anyone who has seen the new trailer will know that (unless they're very dumb). Actual discussion will be answered, meme spamming will be ignored.
Executive meddling forcing Snyder to cut out half an hour of plot and character development to make room for Justice League setup. They did this because they want to catch up to the Marvel movies and tried to do in one movie, what Marvel did in 5.
How about I just thought the dialogue and choreography was shit, you fucking memer?
>>83518505
Opinions =/= movie flaws.
Ben Affleck is hot
why did they release a theatrical version they knew was so flawed it would require another edit to make sense?
>>83517155
the movie is a joyless bore
>>83517155
What's up with the future Batman fight, why was the choreography so bad there but when he fights thugs in the warehouse it was pretty good?
How can you defend a minute of a Piss Jar being portrayed as anything other than comically juvenile in a movie attempting to be a mature and grown-up take on the superhero mythos?
>>83518589
Like I said, because they wanted to catch up to Marvel and not take years doing it. WB made a very poor decision to rush the team movie.
>>83518615
You do realize the future Batman fight is in the future, right? As in, he's older and lacks the resources he used to have. Alfred was remarking he was getting old in BvS, so why do you think an even older Batman would be as physically capable?
>>83518671
Luthor was petty and childish, raised by a psychopath and possessing limitless resources, why were you expecting maturity? You have to realize, that was not Lex, that was his son.
>>83518613
You can thank the Nolanbat movies for that, dark and super serious made money and was critically acclaimed. Once again Batman proves to be a detriment to DC.
>>83518851
Those movie are not as dark as you remember. Realistic yes, but they had quips and humor as well.
"IM NOT WEARING HOCKEY PADS"
"YOU'RE A BIG GUY" "FOR YOU"
"SWEAR TO MEEEEEEEE"
"Sonar? Just like a -" "Submarine, Mr. Wayne. A Submarine."
"SO THATS WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE"
"My father told me not to get into cars with Stange men.." "THIS ISNT A CAR"
>>83518787
>As in, he's older and lacks the resources he used to have.
Batman being old is one thing, punches that don't connect and dudes standing around waiting to get beat on looks bad no matter what
>>83519150
I know, they weren't 100% dark, but can you imagine a Superman movie with the same tone and writing style? It would be shit. That's another of BvS's problems, they tried to adapt a Batman comic into a Superman movie.
>>83517155
Why is Superman still not happy?
>>83518787
>Luthor was petty and childish, raised by a psychopath and possessing limitless resources, why were you expecting maturity?
The issue isn't why Luthor put the piss jar there, that was abundantly clear. The issue is that Snyder and co. thought a piss joke fit tonally with the dark mature movie they were trying to make.
>>83517155
Why does a movie that's trying to pass itself off as ultra-serious and dark have action and writing that's so over-the-top goofy and melodramatic that it's impossible to take seriously?
>>83519275
>punches that didn't connect
>waiting to get beat
I rewatched that scene 10 seconds ago just for you, and that never happened.
Luther's plan to discredit Superman was retarded. A cursory examination of the situation reveals that Superman didn't start the conflict (and certainly didn't shoot anyone) ore even do anything outside of saving an American journalist. Also Louis' subplot of tracing super special unique bullets was pointless filler that could have been removed.
Snyder knew he couldn't do a 3 hour movie. So why didn't he cut it right to fit 2h30 (which is a shitload of time for a blockbuster already)?
It's his fault. The 3 hour cut was always intended for an extended cut to sell more blu-ray copies.
>“It was in there until very recently, so all of it’s finished. It was really just a function of time, to be honest. Because the movie’s long now, long-ish—I don’t think it’s long, but when you get over two and a half hours the studio starts getting nervous. I’m not JamesCameron who’s like ‘No it’s three hours, suck it!’, which is cool by the way. I just wanted to try and get it to a length that is work-able.”
http://collider.com/batman-v-superman-deleted-scenes-directors-cut/
If he can't tell a coherent story in a 2h30 long movie, with the right material to do so, then he's still a fucking shitty director.
>>83517155
What was the point of Doomsday?
>>83517155
opinion =/= good movie
>>83517155
>but 99% of your issues can be countered by one argument, and anyone who has seen the new trailer will know that
The film's cinematographer flat out said anyone who hated the theatrical cut will still hate the extended edition, so no, the film won't magically be better because it's now three hours long.
>defending a movie by directing people to an edit that hasn't even come out yet
>>83519275
As a fan of BvS I fully agree with you. The only reason for them not trying to shoot him would be that hes wanted alive but yes there's a few soldiers that just walk to get beat on.
>>83519423
Theres a guy that literally takes two steps them drops to his knee for seemingly no reason other than Batman turned towards him. Now you can say that he was scared of actually facing Batman but that doesn't hit the audience immediately and for the part that it's in just looks odd
>>83519347
>>83519412
The piss in the jar I don't think is made to be funny to the audience nor is it to be a quip to the character it's Lex being a petty bitch amd don't see what's wrong with it.
As for the series tone "clashing" with the action , I don't see a real problem. I think it may just be a matter of taste. How would you fix the action to accommodate for the tone of the movie?
>>83519439
People don't work like that. It's a big mess that will cause people to freak out and either ignore or intentionally hide facts to justify thier position on things. If this actually happened the headline would read in large font SUPERMAN went to a warzone to save the life of a reporting causing a FALLOUT OF CIVILIAN LIVES!
>>83519556
To kill Superman cause Lex wants Superman dead.
>>83517155
was /tv/ right?
>>83519775
>The piss in the jar I don't think is made to be funny
Well, it is. In fact, if it were intentional, I'd praise Snyder for his masterful comedic direction. It really has a perfect setup, buildup, and punchline, the whole courthouse scene.
>>83519339
See >>83518851
>>83519347
I never saw it as a joke. Luthor was basically mocking her and wanted her to know who killed her.
>>83519412
Just what about the action was goofy to you? As for the writing, again, too much Batwank going on at DC. Try to read the rest of the thread before you post.
>>83517155
>I will now defend this movie
>The movie sucked but it was due to the executives
So, are you defending BvS or what-could-have-been-BvS? Because I can start talking about millions of things this movie did bad and, by your post, I can assume you'll just say "oh, but that's gonna be explained in the DVD version" or "it was the executive producers fault", therefore NOT defending the movie itself as a cinematic production, but defending its potential.
Sorry to say this to you, but the movie was released, and it was bad. Maybe a 6.5/10. You can analize whatever you want outside the movie, start making assumptions, imagine what you think Snyder thought, but that will not change the objective truth: it was bad.
Now, if you really want to talk about the movie itself, I would like to know your opinion on why was Lois Lane such a Deus ex Machina character, always being where she needed to be with no logical explanation, doing stupid shit, and being just a pawn, moving where Snyder wanted her.
And please, I beg you, tell me: why was it necesary to kill Bruce's parents, again, in slow motion, adding very long minutes of useless filler to a movie that had to cut (apparently) big parts of mayor plot due to its long duration? "Introduce the character", its common knowledge what happened to Batman's parents. It's like having to explain that he doesn't have any powers. "It was a cool shot, loyal to the comic". Doesn't compensates the screen time it takes. "It shows us Bruce's mother name was Martha". Again, could've shown it in the graveyard and use those minutes in something more important.
>>83518613
>i dont enjoy this movie therefore its a joyless bore
you sure you're not talking about yourself there?
>>83519843
Anyone have one of these for Green Lantern?
>>83519439
That was never the plan. The plan was to make people think Superman's arrival sparked the violence and caused people to die.
>>83519528
Read the OP. Executive meddling.
>>83519556
Doomsday had two purposes. One, to challenge Superman as a messianic figure, because Luthor's worldview cannot tolerate an all-powerful, all-good force, because no one saved him from Lex. Second, he was Luthor's plan to prepare for Darkseid, because he knew he was coming.
>>83519632
It was only bad because WB couldn't let the writer and director have full control as they should. And that's not an opinion.
>>83519843
I'm not reading all that.
>>83519957
I'm not saying it wasn't bad, I'm saying that it was forced to be bad, and /co/ keeps blaming the wrong people.
>>83519775
I should have pointed out that the person who wrote this post and the person who wrote this one are the same and NOT OP. Sorry to hijack the thread OP but one thing lead to another and I fell into the trap of defending this movie>
>>83519845
I see your point and like we're you took that scene I just don't think it was the "haha" humor that whoever complained about it seemed to take it as.
>>83520062
>I'm not reading all that.
I don't blame you.
>>83519775
>People don't work like that. It's a big mess that will cause people to freak out and either ignore or intentionally hide facts to justify thier position on things. If this actually happened the headline would read in large font SUPERMAN went to a warzone to save the life of a reporting causing a FALLOUT OF CIVILIAN LIVES!
While I understand that I wish it had actually been explored. It was brought up three or four times but the actual implications of Superman acting on foreign soil and him trying to defend himself or otherwise deal with accusations from the public could have been interesting. Instead most of the "Superman is bad" attitude came from the MoS fallout that Luther had no part in. It feels really unnecessary and poorly developed.
>>83519888
>I never saw it as a joke. Luthor was basically mocking her and wanted her to know who killed her.
Luthor's reasoning makes sense, it's juvenile nature of a jar of piss that is incongruous with the otherwise mature tone of the film. I guess at this point we just fundamentally disagree about whether or not jars of piss are juvenile.
>>83519974
how do you enjoy pretentious shlock unless your 16?
>>83519284
>...but can you imagine a Superman movie with the same tone and writing style?
Yes. Yes I can.
>It would be shit.
Oh, it was.
>>83520337
Not really, because Luthor was a juvenile character. FOR HIM, it fit.
>>83517155
You're not defending the movie, you're defending Zack Snyder.
Which is irrelevant, since regardless of fault, the movie still sucked. It had way too many contrived situations for the sake of having them instead of putting forth a good movie.
And now, even though most of the problems of the movie is having too much bullshit:
>piss jar
>"Martha" instead of "mom"
>a 4 minute scene of a guy vandalising a statue
>Luthor having a billion and one reasons to hate superman and behaving like the riddler
>too long of a courtroom scene
>finger-print scanners to hold an alien ship that then works on voice-commands despite acknowledging that it's an alien inside the ship and not its native species)
>a plot about a bullet that leads nowhere to the characters
>shit actor direction (almost every actor here is giving one of their least interesting performances, with the exception of Adams and Affleck, I guess).
You're already PREEMPTIVELY defending a version movie that's gonna ADD even more stuff? I get that some of it will provide context, but most of these are bad ideas and implementations regardless of context.
I get that you want it to be a good movie. So did I. But it wasn't. And no amount of BTS excuses makes up for it.
>>83520373
Thank you for making my point. Nolan is the cancer that's killing the DC movies.
>>83519990
I wish, but the only reason someone typed this up is because of how butthurt people recently are at Marvel's success.
>>83520062
>That was never the plan. The plan was to make people think Superman's arrival sparked the violence and caused people to die.
But why was that his plan? Superman already had people mad about MoS and of being some kind of master plan it didn't mean anything to the overall plot other than giving Louis something to eat up screen time doing.
>>83520381
You're assuming the stuff it will add won't fix all that. And the bullet led Lois to Luthor. As for "save Martha" yeah it's slightly odd he wouldn't say mom, but Batman already showed he didn't care to listen, as will be established in the extended cut in Clark's investigation of Batman in Gotham. Hearing his mother's name is what made Batman stop fighting and listen, and when he realized superman cared more for a human life than his own, it eased Batman's paranoia.
>>83520412
No he isn't, it's Warner Bros incompetence and thinking "Batman's tone on everything = Success".
>>83520378
Luthor was Juvenile and it fits with his character.
The movie is not and it idoesn't fit with that. If Deadpool had a similar scene it would be par for the course, hell it would probably be to high-brow. BvS is trying to be a serious mature film and throwing piss jokes in is a bizzare choice.
I have no problems with the Luthor Eisenberg played putting piss on a senators desk before blowing them up but I don't understand why the people involved in making BvS thought that direction fit with the rest of the movie.
>>83520439
To turn public opinion against Superman so he could get what he wanted to make anti-Superman/Darkseid weapons, and again, because he couldn't tolerate the idea of an all good all powerful force. How did you not pick that up the very first time you saw the movie?
>>83519150
>"My father told me not to get into cars with Stange men.." "THIS ISNT A CAR"
Cracks me up everytime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKBhqfs33gk
>>83520557
And they think that because of the Nolan movies. I know it's hard to accept that Batman and Nolan are shit and killing DC, but we'll get there together Anon.
>>83520356
Maybe because I have the ability to enjoy something without constant reassurance from dweebs on image boards that the thing I'm liking is peer approved, you dip
Pretentiousness has nothing to do with it, it's called "having fun" you ought to try it sometime
>inb4 DCcuck
Marvel's movies are fun too, i know big shocker you don't have to suck the cock of one publisher exclusively
>>83520539
>And the bullet led Lois to Luthor
but none of what Louis did matters, all it established was that Louis could do investigative journalism and that Luthor had some involvement with the opening scene. Luthor then just kidnaps her when she's useful for him completely outside of her investigations and nothing she does matters
>>83520563
Because they tried to depict Superman in a realistic world that would react to him in a believable manner. Believe it or not, the Supergirl TV show illustrated this perfectly. Cat Grant told Kara that Superman didn't start off trying to stop natural disasters, he got cats out of trees and stopped little old ladies from getting hit by cars, he paced himself. BvS Superman didn't have that luxury.
>>83520097
But those "wrong people" have precedents. Why would i not blame Snyder if the movie suffers from the same mistakes and unusual stylistic choices that you can find in pretty much all Snyder movies?
Why can't we just have an animated cinematic universe? Get a animated Batman movie in theatres, followed up by Superman, maybe a Green Lantern movie and relaunch the Green Lantern tv show as a tie in to show off Hal Jordan and the rest of the corps. Have a Flash movie, get Wonder Woman introduced in a Justice League movie, have Silas Stone and Star Labs introduced in the Flash movie to help set up Cyborg for later on.
Or all of this is a shit idea and I should stop thinking.
>>83520660
I'm not a company cocksucker, Nolan's films are by far and away the best superhero cinema ever made, the DCEU is stupid and boring and un-fun as you can possibly get.
>>83520585
People were already mad about Superman and none of that plan ended up mattering because he just smuggled the kryptonite in after blowing up a courthouse.
> he couldn't tolerate the idea of an all good all powerful force. How did you not pick that up the very first time you saw the movie?
Oh I know why Luthor hates Superman, he explains his thirteen year old level atheism quite explicitly, his plan is just dumb though
>>83520274
Ehh I That particular part of human knee jerk reaction was left out yeah. But the montage of Superman doing Superman stuff with the different news cast audio playing really hit home for me especially the line that talks about a paradigm shift.
One of my favorite things about DC is how they mostly avoid any current political views or trends and and have the hero focus on things that humanity simply can't deal with or problems that are timelessly human like Superman Peace on Earth did.
>>83520622
So, even though Nolan films are fine and worked well for batman films, it's their faults the execs are greedy morons and try to copy them, not the fault of the execs'?
The defense force for this movie is incredible and I don't really understand it.
Nobody tries to defend Iron Man 2, TASM 2, Thor 2, The Last Stand and other garbage movies like this. Even if some do, they're a very small minority and if people like those movies they usually admit they weren't that good. Why does BvS have so many autists that insist it's a misunderstood masterpiece and the best capeshit of the 21st century? Why can't you say you enjoyed the movie but admit it had flaws and people have legitimate reasons for not liking it? Hell, I liked X-Men Apocalypse but I'll admit it's not a very good movie and I understand why many people trash it.
>>83520381
>"Martha" instead of "mom"
Why that bothers you?
>>83520834
Because if this movie is a failure it means Marvel and everything it stands for has won.
>>83520834
because people are extremely mad that Marvel won.
>>83520903
>>83520937
>>83520903
>Marvel and everything it stands for
...properly made movies?
>>83521048
art is subjective, there's no 'proper' way to make it
>>83521080
Yeah, but having a coherent plot would be a start
>>83519339
I just wanted to add for this that Superman is not yet done his multi-movie arc to become that bright symbol of hope. We still have the Justice League movies before we get the more joyful parts to this new Superman trilogy they're going to be making for this new movieverse.
>>83519528
>If he can't tell a coherent story in a 2h30 long movie, with the right material to do so, then he's still a fucking shitty director.
>>83521048
poorly
>>83519639
Because people who hated it will refuse to give it a chance
>>83519845
omfg it was not meant to be funny....
what the fuck is wrong with your synapses?
>>83520756
>stupid and boring and as un-fun as you can get
>Thor exists
Opinion discredited and discarded
>>83519339
Snyder put great effort into creating a universe where Superman can't be happy.
>>83517155
pathetic....
>>83519843
>/tv/
>right
>ever
No.
>>83520679
Except for the fact Luthor went to jail at the end.
>"But Doomday"
I could talk my way out of jail based on that. Alien tech, too many unknowns, failsafe made a monster, I didn't create it blah blah blah, the bullet put actual human deaths at Luthor's feet.
unless the new cut removes the ignorant shit that existed in the theatrical cut.... it ain't getting any better...
>>83517155
Snyder can go suck a dick for all I care. He killed Jimmy Olsen.
>>83520727
What other Snyder movies? Name them and their mistakes.
>>83521080
I'm sorry but in terms of filmmaking alone, Marvel has outclassed DC completely.
>Better CGI
>tighter scripts
>interesting character arcs
>better sequel setups
>better practical effects
>stronger casts
>better action set pieces
>coherent film editing
>impressive universe building
>consistent tone
>genuinely funny moments
>better and more believable female characters
>well written villains
>understandable character motivations
the only thing DC might have over them is the Film musical Score.
The rest isn't even a competition.
>>83520834
Except people do defend all the movies you just listed, it's like you can't wrap your mind around somebody liking something you don't
>>83521209
at no point did I mention Marvel.
>>83521192
>Westboro Baptist Church signs repurposed to disparage Superman outside of the courthouse
>Superman walking in all solemnly, but while dressed in full superhero costume
>the senator's slow realization and reaction to the jar of piss
>the long, awkward silence
>a guy suddenly exploding as a punchline
>Superman just standing in the flames looking mildly upset as a cherry on top
Everything about that scene was hilarious.
>>83521309
>>well written villains
This is the only thing I disagree with you on.
>>83521294
Not one edit of the old "Slowly I turned" bit with Bats and Dupes.
>>83520756
No, only Begins was any good, the other two were boring and/or simply bad.
>>83520760
You've never heard the term "another nail in the coffin" then?
>>83520826
The last Nolan film was just a money grab, everything about it was poorly executed. And yes, not being able to realize that the same tone does not work for every character is their fault.
>>83520834
Because those were just garbage, BvS was forced to be garbage against the wills of the people actually making it.
>>83521119
And the extended cut will have that.
>>83521180
This.
>>83521303
I'll admit this is a fair point, fans will be fans.
>>83520756
But Nolan's Batman films are the epitome of stupid and boring and un-fun. I am very confused by your comment. You're completely contradictory, BvS was a fun, goofy romp compared to Nolan's trilogy of yawns.
>>83520834
I try not to defend it anymore but I fell in this thread. Most of the complaints brought up in this thread actually seem legit and are asking for a defense while being civil so that helps a lot. If it was the same old man of murder, not enough smiling, than I wouldn't give a shit.
As for why people defend BvS and damn near no one defends Marvel movies. Honestly I think it's cause Superman and Batman mean alot more to people than the characters in those films do. It's not secret that Marvel pushed thier B-listers to the moon and with how they did it alot of people are sick of it.
>>83521309
Maybe if Marvel managed to have a recurring villain you'd be right on that point.
>trusting trailers of a snyder movie
it's like you enjoy bringing pain on yourself
>>83521468
>shits on Nolanbats
>loves BvS
Snyderfags are truly something else.
>>83521511
If they didn't learn the first time around, or the second time, or the third time, or the fourth time, what makes you think
>fifth time's the charm
I can enjoy the movie, but Lex Luthor was the biggest piece of shit i've seen in a movie.
And all the fucking autists making it seem like film was 2deep4u only make me feel ashamed of saying i like it irl.
>>83517155
It will never ever ever EVER be on par with DC's best film of ALL TIME, Batman (1966)
>>83521309
Snyder has better photograpfy. Wich doesn't goes past making cool scenes for trailers.
>>83521511
So, you didn't see the trailer then? Because it specifically addresses many common complaints of why Superman was so harsh with Batman, why people blamed Superman for the shooting in Africa, Clark Kent being an investigative reporter...
>>83517155
>There's a good reason it was shitty.
>Therefore it was not shitty.
I... wait what?
>>83521344
>you bring up SUPER HERO movies without restriction of franchise or publisher
>Thor apparently doesn't count
>Marvel apparently doesn't count
>attempting to rephrase your own post because you're effectively retarded
it's okay son we all have those days, maybe get some fresh air and you'll realize what an idiot you've been
>>83521597
yes, Larry Fong does this very well, only real ugly thing about BvS is Doomsday.
>>83521615
Snyderfags are brain damaged, don't even bother.
>>83521511
>Saw the trailers for Man of Steel and BvS.
>Looked boring, sounded boring.
>Lo and behold, I was right.
I think I can trust Snyder's trailers.
>>83521634
>only terrible thing cancels out and excuses another
fucking dipshit. never reply to me ever again.
>>83518557
Sure they do asshole. Everything related to art and entertainment is purely subjective. All you entitled, poorly socialized douchenozzles really need to understand this.
>>83521467
>You've never heard the term "another nail in the coffin" then?
That's a terrible excuse for bad writing and a plot point that stopped being relevant with no real resolution halfway through the movie
>>83521467
>The Dark Knight was bad
>>83521615
I see you didn't read the thread then. I say several times it was crap.
>>83521789
But it's not bad writing and the plot point was relevant to the end, sorry. Stop hating because you like to hate.
sorry OP, but you are fighting a losing battle.
unless they add a metric fuckton of plot, storylines, and fix every line of dialogue, it's still only going to be something that /looks/ good, but still isnt a good movie
>>83520381
>finger-print scanners to hold an alien ship that then works on voice-commands despite acknowledging that it's an alien inside the ship and not its native species)
What gave Luthor comand of the Scout-Ship was Zod's Command Key.
>>83521824
kek
>>83518787
>raised by a psychopath
There's no evidence of this that isn't tainted by Lex's perception.
>>83521467
>The last Nolan film was just a money grab, everything about it was poorly executed. And yes, not being able to realize that the same tone does not work for every character is their fault.
you truly know nothing about filmmaking. That movie was a masterclass in filmmaking, you probably think it's bad because cinemasins pointed out a few plotholes.
The Practical effects, the props, the set design, the costumes, the score, the cast, and many other things were top-notch and better than 95% of modern blockbusters.
>>83517155
Why was the movie so good? How were they able to produce such a high quality film?
Why is Lois Lane a better detective than Batman in these movies? I feel like Bats had over two years to investigate Superman and just decided not to so that the movie title would have had merit.
Why make it BvS instead of World's Finest?
Why is Synder so dumb that he thinks heroes talking in costume is silly?
>>83521824
nice
>>83521859
>But it's not bad writing and the plot point was relevant to the end, sorry. Stop hating because you like to hate.
Explain how Superman being blamed for middle east instability was at all relevant to the back half of the movie (or was given some kind of resolution).
>>83521304
ALL OF 'EM
>Dawn of the Dead remake: probably his best movie, some may complain about the lack of social commentary typical of Romero's early works but whatev
>300: fun movie too, BUT even has a fan i find it weird that Zack felt the need to add all those extra-dark elements like that big, fat monster with knife-arms. The comic was already violent, but Snyder made it XTREME, while it was cool to watch there was no real need to show the Persians as such abominations of nature, actually makes the movie look kinda racist
Side note: Zack Snyder later wrote Rise of an Empire. I don't think i need to add anything
>Watchmen: kinda like 300, Zack wasn't happy with the grittiness he already had in his hands and made the movie even more violent and cool, problem is in this case it goes against many of the enstablished themes and tones of the story. Small example: in the comic the epitome of "peak human" is Veidt grabbing a flying bullet with his hand. It's a crazy moment during the craziest parts of the so-far-mostly-realistic book, so crazy even the character himself has an hard time believing it happened. Instead in the first 10 minutes of the movie a retired Comedian gets punched through walls, punches through walls, and he's perfectly fine. Later in the movie a retired Dan breaks a man's arm with a punch, with the blood exploding right in the audience's face. You may and probably will call this nitpicking, but this is just a small example, the movie's full of similar problems. Snyder claimed he saved the movie by adapting it panel-to-panel, but the problem is, if that's your objective, you either DO adapt panel-to-panel or don't, any change will stick out like a sore thumb otherwise
>Never seen the owls movie
>Sucker Punch: do i even need to say it? The first original Snyder movie and its about samurai strippers fighting through inconsequential, CG-heavy action pieces in a framing narrative that claims to be a 2deep4you commentary on feminism and sanity
>>83521824
That reddit is very cute.
>>83520891
>Why that bothers you?
It's clunky and unnatural.
People don't call their parents by their first name as they lose consciousness.
>>83522000
>>300: fun movie too, BUT even has a fan i find it weird that Zack felt the need to add all those extra-dark elements like that big, fat monster with knife-arms. The comic was already violent, but Snyder made it XTREME, while it was cool to watch there was no real need to show the Persians as such abominations of nature, actually makes the movie look kinda racist
There's nothing wrong about 300 being racist and violent. WTF. Is this real criticism? What else? The movie was too gay also?
>>83522000
I always love how whenever people go over Snyder's movies it's always
>shit movie
>shit movie
>shit movie
>never seen the Owl movie
>shit movie
Did the Owl movie tank financially or something cause I swear no one's seen it.It was shit as well though
>>83521824
It was bad. Too many speeches about why Batman matters, everyone's plans were insane, Joker never even had a character, he was purely a plot device, Dent's insanity made no sense, especially considering he should have ignored everything Joker said in the hospital, as any actual person would have to the person who killed their fiance, "do I look like a guy who has a plan" when he clearly had extensive plans that relied on mental patients to carry out complex tasks, a school bus escape that relies on the driver behind him not getting on the radio and saying "holy shit the bus in front of me just drove out of a bank wall, here is the bus number and licence plate someone call the cops!" The movie was mediocre at best.
>>83522000
>>Dawn of the Dead remake: probably his best movie, some may complain about the lack of social commentary typical of Romero's early works but whatev
Dawn of the Dead was written by some guy named James Gunn.
It'd be great if he went on to direct a superhero movie.
>>83522128
He sounds like a hack to me
The idea that being uncompromising in your morals. and dedicating yourself to the betterment of the less fortunate, is something that needs deconstructing and "fixing". The idea that being genuine and nice to others, and true to yourself, needs extra "maturity" and "humanity" injected into it? These are very worrying thought processes to me. That level of cynicism is indeed why we NEED Superman as he was, and not as they are trying to make him.
>>83521309
>Better CGI
>interesting character arcs
>better practical effects
>better action set pieces
>better and more believable female characters
>well written villains
These are all wrong.
>>83518557
>>83522128
He did manage to accurately portray male rape in that pseudo-Kickass movie.
>>83521992
It was all about turning people against Superman, so politicians would give him what he wanted. Which led to Doomsday.
>>83522000
>300
It was someone telling a story about a myth, surprise things get exaggerated.
>Watchmen
It's not actually that hard for well-trained and physically fit people to break bones in a fight. So big shocker it gets exaggerated in a comic book movie.
>owls
Didn't see it either.
>Sucker Punch
Okay, one bad movie, but his adaptations are fine, it's his original stuff that sucks.
>>83522086
You don't need to teach me about the greeks' racism and homoeroticism, that's not what i'm talking about
We were talking about Snyder tropes, and in that case 300 is an example of Snyder's inability of exploring a theme in a subtle way ("greeks hated the foreigners, so let's pretend they'd depict foreigners as literal, disgusting demons") and how he likes to make everything uglier and bloodier for the sake of it
>>83522128
he did though
>>83519150
I honestly find the quips in the nolan films to be awful, worse than MCU quips. They're just so out of place that they make me cringe.
>>83517155
There's no thematic, tonal, or ideological contrast.
However I will admit that the lack ideological contrast MAY be a result of the editing. (And that's a hard may given the whole "I can't take it seriously if they talk to each other" thing)
HOWEVER, while the studio did impose run time and sequel hooks, I have yet to receive confirmation on who actually got to decide WHAT was taken out.
>>83517155
>Bring your complaints, I will answer them,
I thought the movie was painfully average, but the more people push to defend it the more I find myself turned away.
>>83521964
>Why is Lois Lane a better detective than Batman in these movies? I feel like Bats had over two years to investigate Superman and just decided not to so that the movie title would have had merit.
Batman didn't cared about if Superman was actually good or bad. He just didn't believe that Superman could be good or good for long.
>>83521824
TDK wasn't bad, but it certainly isn't very good the second time you watch the movie, the action is meh at best, Batman still doesn't know how to fight, and Nolan just allowed his extras to say lines incorrectly, for example, during the scene where they are trying to get Dent out of the SWAT van, they see their copter above them aboit to hit the cables and the driver says "Thats not good." Then the cooter starts to fall and he says, "Thats NOT good." The emphasis is on the wrong word here, if you say this out loud you'll hear it, but Nolan just let it slip by.
It's still by far the best Batman movie we've ever gotten, but that's a low bar.
>>83522226
>It's not actually that hard for well-trained and physically fit people
That excuses Silk Spectre. What about the doughboy?
>>83522235
That scene where Ellen Page raped Rainn Wilson horrified me and gave me a boner.
>>83521992
>Explain how Superman being blamed for middle east instability was at all relevant to the back half of the movie (or was given some kind of resolution).
The US wanted to nail Superman ass, but he was keeping himself out of political crisis and such. The African massacre gave the US enough leverage.
>>83522000
When i watched the 300 movie i didnt like the rape/cheating subplot with Leonida's wife. I didn't understand what point was trying to make. I discovered soon that the scene wasn't in the comic. Now that i've read that Snyder's interview about raping batman in prison i came to understand that it was all his idea. It's the only addition he made to the story and it's the only part i immediatly disliked. And back than i didn't even knew who Snyder was.
>>83521309
Why would you even compare Marvel and DC movies?
They have as much in common as Marvel comics with Dc comics(nothing)
>>83522325
Because it was removed to make room for Justice League setup. Watch the trailer for the extended cut, they make a point of showcasing all that.
>>83522333
A natural response to nagging, but the movie's faults are understandable considering what it was forced to be.
>>83522226
>about a myth
the number aside it's not a myth
>>83522360
>doughboy
Who, this guy? He was never made a doughboy is the problem. Dude's just brown Batman
>>83522233
>You don't need to teach me about the greeks' racism and homoeroticism, that's not what i'm talking about
But the movie and the comic was about the Greek point of view of that particular battle. Duh.
>>83521964
>Detective
No one manages to make Batman a detective save Burton, it gets in the way of action and shipping.
>BvS
Nerds respond to the implied conflict.
>Talking in costume
I'm...sorry?
>>83522353
Good or Bad has nothing to do with it, but Batman learning everything that he could aboit Superman to give him an edge in their fight does, it's just, Batman ignored this for 2 years until Lex's people figured out that Kryptonite hurt him. Had Batman actually did his home work the fight at the end would have been nothing g more than a ruse to get Batman close enough to Martha Kent without drawing suspicion from Lex.
>>83517155
why did Doomsday look like a dumb sad baby?
>>83522495
Nolan's take on Batman was more of a detective than Burton's or Synder's though. And I'm sorry about the lack of costumed diolouge too.
>>83522495
>No one manages to make Batman a detective save Burton,
Schumacher did it.
>>83522572
It was more of a noir take certainly but actual detective work? Batman had Alfred and Lucius do most of the "smart" stuff for him.
>>83522360
Yes, because it's completely impossible to believe someone in that world, knowing how dangerous it can be, would be out of shape. Don't mistake a chubby face for a flabby body. Just look at Carrie Fisher in the slave bikini. Some people don't lose weight in the face. This is the last I will say about Watchmen, it's not the point of the thread.
>>83522439
The guy telling the story to the Spartan army makes it one.
>>83522572
>Burton
Are we pretending Batman 89 was a Batman movie?
It isn't, it's a Tim Burton movie.
>>83522445
>He was never made a doughboy is the problem. Dude's just brown Batman
Exactly.
>>83522060
And that is what it boils down to, I like to believe he was saying Martha Kent, but Kent got mangled and choked down. Seeing that the name Martha alone got such a strong reaction out of Batman, using surname might as well then sever whatever emotional connection Batman displayed.
>>83522532
Because he was a baby maybe?
>>83522572
...no, he wasn't. He followed simple clues and let a computer reconstruct a bullet.
>>83522610
I will not give anyone who defends Schumacher the effort of an argument.
> Bring your complaints, I will answer them
Batman has Superman at the end of a kryptonite spear and says "You are not a god!" and Superman does not reply "I never said I was!"
>>83518557
There is literally no way you can point out a movie's flaws without it sounding like an opinion. If your only way to counter people's criticisms is by dismissing their claims as opinions, we're going to assume you lack a proper defense.
>>83522610
The point is we saw Batman doing forensic work, using bullet reconstruction programs, facial recognition programs, even planting irradiated bills in a bank so he could track the thieves.
>>83522684
And that LITTLE bit was still more than Synder allowed him to do.
>>83522465
I know that... it's why i appreciated the comic so much, i've studied in a dang classical lyceum, i know about the greeks and their ways
All i'm saying is the movie takes all those already present themes from the comic and takes them to the extreme in ways that MAYBE could be too much and actually ruin the experience if you're looking for anything that isn't just dumb fun
AGAIN, i enjoy the movie, but i'll repeat myself, if we want to talk about Snyder tropes then 300 is an example of his inability of exploring a theme in a subtle way and of how he likes to make everything uglier and bloodier for the sake of it
>>83522419
I see what you mean, It doesn't personally bother me too much, but yeah, it's unecessary. I guess Snyder wanted the female heroine to actually do something, kinda like how in LotR Arwen was given more shit to do? But it's rape. Judging from Sucker Punch i guess Snyder thinks women surviving abuse is the best way to show how strong they are
>>83522424
>Because it was removed to make room for Justice League setup. Watch the trailer for the extended cut, they make a point of showcasing all that.
As I said, and you were more than willing to ignore, I fully understand and accept that the movie had to cut stuff to make room for shit it didn't need.
However, what was IN the movie, I'm not convinced was necessary. The entire plot with Luthor's trademarked bullets is pointless. The drowning horse dream sequence is unnecessary; we KNOW actions have consequences already.
My question, as I said earlier, is that yes, cuts have to be made. Who decided what those cuts actually were? Who was the one that said "Okay, Superman's side of the argument? That can be removed. Nobody cares about it. But we better have as much Lois as possible!"
Because I want a name, so that I can move forward and say "Okay this guy that made that shitty decision is on the movie still, I'm out." or vice versa.
Why the fuck did he say "Martha" and not "my mom?"
>>83522572
>Nolan's take on Batman was more of a detective than Burton's or Synder's though.
It was the exact equivalent of Adam Bats at the Batcomputer.
>>83522613
>It's possible for people in shape to slow motion matrix punch!
>It's impossible for people to be out of shape in that universe!
Yeah, you missed the point. Nite-Owl is supposed to suck. His gadgets are what even the odds, and they're supposed to be a massive waste of his resources that he could be using more constructively.
It really says everything that you need to know that Snyder takes the story where superheroes are supposed to suck and goes "Look how cool they are!" and the story where a superhero needs to be shown to be cool after all and goes "Look how much he sucks!"
>>83522794
Because there might have been a concern that whatever beef that Batman has with Superman might extend to his "mother" as well.
>>83522794
Because how else would the audience know their mothers have the same common name? This is crucial!
>>83522824
No, that would be Synder's dude, because the only time he displays any kind of Detective skills is when he is Googling White Protaguese at his computer, where as Nolan's Batman we actually see him doing a little bit more than just pushing a button.
>>83522724
There's a difference between disagreeing on art and nitpicking things that don't actually matter.
>>83522738
Seeing as how it's not a Batman movie (or wasn't intended to be) so what? I couldn't give less of a shit about what Snyder did to Batman, personally I loathe the character.
>>83522774
I already answered that, the bullet put Luthor in prison, and no, Doomsday would not have. And WB decided what to cut, to make room for JL setup.
>>83522794
Maybe because he wanted someone to help her, without revealing their relationship so the world would hound her after his death?
>>83522857
No, YOU did. Apparently you think I said working out lets you slow down time.
>>83522794
bad screenwriting.
>>83522060
He said it because he didn't want to reveal his identity.
>>83523034
>bullet put luthor is prison
Bullshit. The bullet was to show luthor was behind the Africa incident, he either went to jail for doomsday or the hearing bombing
>>83523034
>Seeing as how it's not a Batman movie (or wasn't intended to be) so what? I couldn't give less of a shit about what Snyder did to Batman, personally I loathe the character
But it was a Batman movie, it sure as hell wasn't a sequel to Man of Steel because Synder went to great lengths to say it was not. It was very much Intended to be a Batman movie, it was just handled very poorly.
>>83520412
No, it's the people trying to copy the success of Nolanbat/MCU and churning movies out as quickly as possible instead of taking the time to work out the kinks. That is cancer.
Not saying Nolan and MCU didn't have problems. But unless certain people are replaced, JLA is never going to get the movie it deserves.
>>83522656
>I like to believe he was saying Martha Kent, but Kent got mangled and choked down.
That is called projection. You are projecting the answer you want to be.
Do you understand that for all the people not scrutinizing sound clips, it appears as if Superman absurdly call his mother by her first name.
>>83521737
You didn't contest you're effectively retarded though so at least that's something
>>83523034
>No, YOU
Kek are you literally seven years old?
>>83523034
>And WB decided what to cut, to make room for JL setup.
WB is a huge company. It doesn't make creative decisions. Someone down the chain of command makes those decisions. Who is that someone?
Are you really that scared that the answer might be Snyder?
>>83523034
>No, YOU did. Apparently you think I said working out lets you slow down time.
Semantic nitpicking doesn't make look less pedantic.
>>83523157
How could either of those be blamed on him? There was no evidence for the bombing, and Doomsday he could just say "alien security measure/came through a portal/Superman made it but couldn't control it/a million other things." Any clod could talk their way out of prison for Doonmsday.
>>83523184
Unfortunately you're right, it was. Or became one at some point during the filming and editing process. That doesn't make it right.
>>83523193
You're ignoring the declining quality of the Nolan films themselves. Begins was far and away the best of the lot, and not just because the Batman voice wasn't silly as fuck.
>>83520891
>>83520381
Correction to my original post:
He should've said "Ma", obviously.
>>83523309
If it was Snyder, why did he film all those other scenes for the extended cut? Why do they exist?
>>83523342
Yeah it's not nitpicking. No, real life people cannot do what Owl and Silk were doing in Watchmen, but it's not unbelievable that comic book characters could. Would you scoff at the idea of Batman or Shang Chi doing those things?
>>83523276
I don't respond to ad-hominem.
>>83523369
It pretty much became one when WB decided that Batman and Batman related characters are the only marketable ones, which makes me sad because DC actually has a number of amazingly awesome characters that are far more intresting than Batman and his brats.
>>83523466
WB made audiences stop caring about movie Superman with a slew of awfully written films.
They killed Green Lantern's appeal in a single film.
It's distinctly possible that they might whatever good will audiences hold for Wonder Woman with a Gadot film.
I don't think Aquaman stands a chance, and Cyborg never did.
>>83520834
Because a thick veneer of pretentious bullshit will convince idiots that bad things are good since it makes them feel smart to notice background details and references, and I say this as someone who prefers DC over Marvel.
>>83523623
/co/ is a majority DCfriend board, and the DCEU and Rebirth are what they have, of course they are going to try and find the silver lining.
New 52 was hailed here for greatness, before Rebirth came along to "fix its awfulness."
Affleck will be the "Greatest Batman" until the next Batman.
>>83523456
>Would you scoff at the idea of Batman or Shang Chi doing those things?
No because Batman and Shang Chi's stories aren't about what terrible idea costumed vigilantes are (well most of them).
Why is it so boring?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujpBnccHjzs
>>83523714
DC was a mistake
>>83517155
Here we go...
Zack, don't you have another terrible movie to direct?
Damn the DCEU is off to a rocky start, what do we do if SS is shit?
>>83524248
reboot everything
>>83524299
How? And it would be a shame to lose Ben
>>83524248
It looks like it's going to be shit.
>>83524248
Don't worry, we'll still have Shazam. The Rock will single handily save the DCEU.
>>83524379
Just cancel everything and wait 5 years and do it all over again
This is the HUGE risk of making cinematic universes, you fuck up one movie really badly and there goes your expectation of quality.
>>83524530
Well at least you didnt say FLASHPOINT, because we need a new Barry. Nothing against Erza, but hes a miscast.
>That pic
To be fair, theres no fucking way Returns Superman or Nolan Batman would work. Unfortunately for WB they have to distance themselves from that
>>83523262
I am acknowledging that what I perceive to happen might get dismissed as reaching, thats why its important to me that whoever I am talking to first acknowledge their issue with the scene. Which was, it being unnatural to call their parent by first name, I provided the possible explanation.
That scene was riding on good faith of the audience, and many had no reason to give it a pass, understandable. But that does not invalidates that the noises Clark makes can be easily constructed into a Kent. To accept that or to dismiss it is up to you, anon.
>>83524725
Its definitely a reach anon, your trying to make sense of a scene that Snyder probably did in a first draft.
>>83524598
and Gal Gadot.
>>83524798
Snyder is one thing, but I've fallen for Terrio meme and chose to have faith in the screenwriter.
>>83524969
>trusting Chris "jar of piss" Terrio
>>83524871
There really isnt enough of her screentime to accurately determine if shes worth keeping. WW will show us
>>83525062
I don't feel she has the look at all. But that's just me.
>>83518557
movie flaws =/= complaints & issues
You asked for complaints & issues.
>>83517155
Here's a question for you.
How do you feel having been beaten by a wide margin by an animated movie with almost no marketing, merchandise or exposure? How does it feel to see that movie get a billion?
>>83523034
>things that don't actually matter.
>dialogue and cinematography
Holy shit you are not allowed to have movie opinions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTuyfQ5CR4Q
>>83526046
>rotten tomattoes everywhere
every time
>>83523464
You just did
Showing Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman felt really inorganic was just a commercial for the franchise.
In the theatrical cut anyway- Clark doesn't have enough dialogue and doesn't have enough scenes of reacting to the story. "I don't care what they say" doesn't sound much like Clark to me. I still don't like the Kents.
>>83517155
Why put out an incomplete movie instead of the "better version" that will be on blueray?
>>83526995
Warner Bros is run by suits unlike Marvel
>>83517155
Why the workers of the Wayne company decided to wait in the building and evacuate only when Superman and Zod started to fight?
Perry Black and his team abandoned the Daily Planet when the dubstep machine landed on metropolis
>>83527458
bad screenwriting.
>>83526995
The "director's cut" edition isn't anything new
And the "better version" will only slightly improve Superman's character, not fix the awful movie.
>>83518557
But your stance on the edits is opinions too. What if this is the superior version of the film?
>>83520381
Maybe it's because he thought that it might make Bruce hesitate. He knew his identity beforehand and probably did some research.
>>83527458
Same reason anything happens in Goyer/Snyder films.
They need to get from Plot Development A. to Action Setpiece B.
So a bunch of poorly thought-out shit is inserted in the middle that pulls the narrative along to point B., characterization and logic be damned.
>>83519347
>piss joke
It's not a joke, it's Lex taking the Senator's words and mocking her seconds away from literally her getting BTFO. It's an act of vain comeback from Lex's part because she bruised his ego by seeing right through his bullshit and daring to flatly say no to him. How juvenile, ADD and dumb do you have to be to not catch him taking her exact words from their previous conversation and using them to give her the metaphorical finger just before she dies?
It don't matter. None of this matters.
>>83521964
>Why is Lois Lane a better detective than Batman in these movies? I feel like Bats had over two years to investigate Superman and just decided not to so that the movie title would have had merit.
In regards to Superman, Lois has proper perspective and first hand experience with him, where as Bruce was blinded by his paranoia and never considered Superman to be anything more than an alien being, so his approach was fundamentally flawed from the start. He never considered there to be any human element that could be investigated and exploited because to him Superman was like a God like being just playing with humanity until he got bored. It's called a character flaw, Bruce fails to understand Superman, along with humanity until the very end, so naturally his approach is completely wrong. He still did plenty of investigating, it was just directed at Luthor because Bruce tunnel vision was focused on looking for ways to kill Superman and Lex was involved in dissecting Zod, etc. and had the first hand research info that Bruce wanted to exploit.
>>83527450
>83526995
Oh man thats sooo right
Batman is all about having the tactical advantage over everything (the prep time meme). That philosophy is epitomized in the line "The world only makes sense if you force it to"
The basis for Batman's hatred of Superman is the complete existential shock that is caused by him and his Kryptonian invaders to the world as him personally in Metropolis.
His philosophy that he's operated under since his parents' death is called into question by a higher power he can't understand. In response, he becomes irrational, and angry and a killer ("people hate what they don't understand").
To that end, Batman gives absolutely no shits about the man part of Superman. He hates the idea of Superman, an invincible god from the Heavens reigning down destruction in the same way Lex hates him by being unable to understand him. Unlike Lex, Batman never seeks to control, his mind never once wandered to figuring out his secret identity or family or relationships. An invincible man having weaknesses is a fallacy that the fool Lex dwells on and drives himself mad with. Batman only cared about force: anything not towards the goal of killing Superman was disregarded. Figuring out he was Clark Kent then kidnapping his mom? What then? Tell him to leave the planet forever? Batman wants to stop the threat to his world, both his physical world and personal understanding of that world.
>>83527458
>Why the workers of the Wayne company decided to wait in the building and evacuate only when Superman and Zod started to fight?
Isn't it safer to stay indoors than run out to the streets where debris is falling everywhere and just little while ago the world engine was crushing everything? They had no idea what was happening and probably thought it was some kind of a natural catastrophe, so they decided to stay put until it was deemed 'safe'
>>83532492
>and probably thought it was some kind of a natural catastrophe
You forget, the aliens had just finished threatening to fuck up the Earth.
>>83527458
>>83532492
>>83532511
What the World Engine was doing was more similar to an earthquake than anything else, so they probably were doing the earthquake protocol until Zod smashed Superman through buildings.
https://www.ready.gov/earthquakes
Looks like I'm late to the party but here's my 2 cents responding to the general flack BvS receives
>Not muh Supes + not muh Bats
That's the point. At this point, they AREN'T supposed to be the classic and iconic versions we all know and love. Both of these characters are developing, transitioning into the versions we want to see. Clark moves FORWARD to embracing being a saviour of humanity and a symbol of hope, and Bruce moves BACK to being the Batman who is no longer a cruel criminal.
>"The first movie we see Superman just stepping into the suit and having to go straight into a throw-down with Zod... And he won. It was successful, but it was messy, he did a lot of damage."
>"But this time we see him fighting a new kind of enemy who is psychological [...] and he mistakes here too. And these are all things which he has to learn from, and because we have all these characters, we can trail that line slowly."
>"We’re not quite yet there at the Superman from the comic books. We’re working our way.”
>“He’s the best of us in the sense that he has gone through all the trials and tribulations of slings and arrows of growth, of being hated, of not being wanted, of wanting to do everything for humanity, not being able to achieve it, and being disappointed in himself and still coming back fighting every time.”
Just read Henry's thoughts. This guy gets it -- he gets Superman. Just the execution may not have been the very best for the wider audience.
And if the early screening reports about SS are true and Batman is concerned about saving people and is, overall, a much better Batman, then it's because of the development that he went through in BvS to bring him back to this point in his life.
>Lex
Did you want generic white business man #52? Because that's what it would have felt like. He does the job of applying psychological warfare to both Bruce and Clark and manipulates everyone he meets. His hate for Superman isn't one-dimensional but rather expanded upon.
>>83532844
>Forced JL set up
Lex was working on a 'metahuman thesis' and explains why he had researched these metas and crafted logos for them.
>Not muh WW
Just because she wasn’t the sexualised, sexual fantasy WW you like to jack off to, doesn’t make it bad. Even Diana goes through some development; from giving up on humanity, to willing to form the JL and defend it.
>Poor editing
A legitimate criticism. There wasn’t enough Clark. Editing resulted in some incoherencies. Hopefully the Ultimate Cut will rectify this.
>Treatment of Jimmy Olsen
Another legitimate criticism
>Pa Kent in the mountains
If the Ultimate Cut reports are true, Clark has nightmares about not being able to save everyone. This would give context to Pa Kent’s entire speech and Clark asking him if the nightmares ever stopped.
>Clark should have just explained the situation to Bruce rather than fighting
Clark tries. Bruce, consumed by rage, doesn't let him. Also “Men like that, words don’t stop them. You know what stops them? Fists.” Bruce was overtaken with rage and the hunt for Superman, he couldn't be reasoned with.
>>83532770
There are no faults to shake the east coast, I doubt many people in Metropolis know about earthquake drills and such.
>>83532883
>Martha
Honestly, if you think the whole Martha thing was a flaw or make jokes about it then the problem is with you, not the movie. It pushes Bruce to realise the all-powerful ‘god’ he's been hunting this entire time actually isn’t one, but a man, just like himself. Also do you really think someone like Bats wouldn't go fuckingbatshit crazy over the mention of his parents under such intense circumstances? Martha ties these two iconic characters together, humanises them, and facilitates their growth.
>No quips/humourless
Just because the humour isn’t tension-breaking, in-your-face Whedon-quips, doesn’t mean there wasn’t any:
>Batman's 'n-no please don't' gestures as the effects of the Kryptonite wears off
>Bruce: "My foundation's already issued a statement in support of, uh... books"
>Perry: "Crime wave in Gotham! Other breaking news: Water -- wet!"
>Clark: "Is she with you?" Bruce: "No, I thought she was with you"
>Bruce: "Oh shit"
>Alfred's lines
>Bruce: "I like those shoes"
What is Luthers end game with Doomsday? Kill superman and then, what? Rule the wasteland with an unstoppable killing machine rampaging across the earth?
It's a no win situation for Luther. Either superman dies and they're left with Doomsday, or Luther loses and superman sends him to jail. Sure, he proves a point. Then what. He gets killed by doomsday??
Why does Lois throw the spear in the water, get trapped, force superman away from the fight, save superman from drowning? Why take up 4-5 mins of the film to accomplish nothing. Also, why does superman not pass the spear to batman, who has proven combat skills, or Wonder Woman, a literal trained warrior. He dies simply to show he can be resurrected in the next film right?
>>83533132
I guess Lex makes Doomsday in case Batman isn't successful, but then what would he do if Doomsday was successful and rampaging? I mean he couldn't go and craft a Kryptonite deterrent since Batman stole it. Perhaps he was swayed by the Kryptonian computer to create Doomsday, remember there's the deleted scene with Steppenwolf which could provide some insight to Lex's motivations to go ahead with Doomsday. His time in the birthing chamber clearly affected him, making him even crazier than he was before, who's to say he made Doomsday of his own free will and clear mind?
Bruce would get wiped by Doomsday, c'mon. Diana was trying to subdue Doomsday with her lasso. But Clark taking the task upon himself has the most significance and emotional impact. He's literally making the ultimate sacrifice to save humanity. The people of Metropolis and the world see him in a more positive light post-BvS.
>>83517155
Why the fuck does it keep cramming the stupid Jesus imagery that nobody likes into it so hamfistedly?
Why is it so unlike the comics, barring the scene for scene copying of certain fights?Why was the critical reception so poor when its supposedly defensible?
>>83517155
You can't defend the shitty dialogue and the shitty pace of the movie.
You can't defend the poor characterizations and all the unnecessary bloatness of the plot.
You simply can't. Your opinion =/= arguments
>>83533281
Maybe?? Luther goes into the chamber pretty confidently and sound of mind (for this Luther). This honestly bothered me more than anything else in the movie. :/
And Sure, Bats probably would get smeared. But he doesn't get weaker holding it. Or, maybe, superman throws the spear into Doomsday? Literally anything else.
And I get the whole sacrifice thing. He dies so others can live. It's on par for superman stories, where he puts others before him. It's probably the most superman-like he is in the movie. But like, he doesn't have to. It's literally becuse symbolism.
This movie was a fucking mess. My initial thought after watching was "what the fuck did I just watch?"
>>83521239
>/co/
>right
>ever a shred more right than /tv/
"No."
>>83519150
The humor in Batman Begins is the best because it's largely delivered by Batman and Batman's dry wit actually works.
>Nice coat
>Do I look like a cop?
>Back up
>Did the story not make sense? Buy our DLC for $20!
>>83535488
>even Bioware fucked up less than Snyder
>>83517155
Any reason on why superman trained to be able to here Lois' voice form hundreds of miles away but not his own mother's? Also why did the military try and nuke doomsday the moment superman took him into space, if Doomsday can't fly wouldn't have letting superman carry doomsday far enough to drift into space be the more wise option?
>>83535726
>“We had a scene that we cut from the movie where he tries to look for her when he finds out that Lex has got her,” Snyder continued. “It was a slightly dark scene that we cut out because it sort of represented this dark side. Because when he was looking for his mom he heard all the cries of all the potential crimes going on in the city, you know when you look.
>“I kind of like the idea that he’s taught himself not to look because if he looks it’s just neverending, right? You have to know when, as Superman, when to intervene and when not to. Or not when not to, you can’t be everywhere at once, literally you can’t be everywhere at once, so he has to be really selective in a weird way about where he chooses to interfere.”
These are the words of Zack Snyder so think of it as what you may. But Clark clearly had a special reserve for Lois. He hears her in the dessert, he hears her as she is falling off the top of the building, and then he hears her as she is trapped underwater. Also in MoS he learns to tune out a lot of the noise, to tone down his super hearing and keep it under control. His mother would probably be less likely to find herself in trouble or danger, much less when compared to Lois's likelihood to be at risk.
Also
>US government acts foolhardy and makes rash decisions
What's new?
