Despite Marvel always pushing her as some sort of ALPHA FEMALE LEADER OF THE X-MEN NOT JUST THE OTHER GUY, why is Storm not as interesting a leader of the X-men compared to Cyclops or even Wolverine /co/?
>>83503837
Because CC did it better.
>>83503837
because you obviously don't read comics
>>83503837
She is interesting. But she has this obsession to a weather goddess.
>>83503837
Eh? Storm is great. She's one of my favourite Xmen.
>>83503837
>why is Storm not as interesting a leader of the X-men compared to Cyclops or even Wolverine /co/?
Can you give specific examples of this anon?
>>83503837
because she's condemning the actions of Cyke will in the same breath giving the same orders he did, giving the same speeches he did, and telling old man logan to do the same things Wolverine did.
we've seen it all before and her hypocrisy only makes the lack of innovation more frustrating.
>>83503837
Because she was only a good character in X-Men Evolutions.
She's a conservative non-flamboyant adult that isn't a stranger to responsibility and generally knows what to say. She has no true conflict as a replacement to Charles and this closed-up attitude makes her a little boring. Meanwhile, Scott is the ex-teenager learning to fill big shoes, coup with adulthood and leadership while maintaining his relationship with Jean. And Wolverine is just a nomad bad apple lone wolf that needs to learn to settle down, domesticate himself, fight his inner demons and deal with being responsible for anything other than himself and his motorcycle. What does Storm have to offer compared to those two? She's already a developed character. She's Charles 2.0 but without the Charisma or the telepathic synergy to communicate with students.
The X-Men seem to have way more of an agenda when Cyclops leads them than when Storm does
>Cyclops: Let's fight Magneto! And the Sentinels! And Apocalypse!
>Storm: Let's fight weird nature spirits! Gods from forgotten pantheons! Fake our deaths! Live in Austrailia! Murder the Marauders! Move into Limbo!
>non-flamboyant
Maybe in the hands of shitty writers
>>83504579
Yeah, Storm mostly just reacts to things. She never really initiates anything.
She is pretty aimless, both with the X-Men as well as personally.
>oh no, I lost my powers!
>but I don't want Forge to give them back to me!
>I'll get into contact with my heritage instead
>oh wait, powers are actually pretty cool, I'll beg Forge to give me my powers back
Storm usually doesn't bring drama to the story. Unlike most leaders, she's got her shit together on most occasions. It makes her a great leader, but doesn't lead to great stories.
>>83503837
>compared to Cyclops or even Wolverine
Emotional stability?
I'm still not sure why Storm and Logan aren't the default canon.
When I first saw them hook up on DoFP arc in the cartoon it just seemed so natural, much less hamfisted than the Jean non-romance. Most interactions I've see between them since just confirm to me that they should be a couple.
>>83504710
>I'm still not sure why Storm and Logan aren't the default canon.
Because their relationship is generally stable and without genre. Storm wears the pants and Logan does what she says unless she's being a wuss about killing someone, in which case he'll do it and she'll usually realize he was right.
>>83503837
I think she's one of the best examples of cape characters where design is the crux of their popularity. Nobody would like her if she looked like Electro in a wig.
>>83504710
I know Claremont likes this pairing. personally I think its kind of boring.
Lemire's a bad writer.
>>83503837
>why is Storm not as interesting a leader of the X-men compared to Cyclops or even Wolverine /co/?
Storm is way more interesting as a leader than Cyclops or Wolverine. She's got shitloads of gravitas, she makes sense as a leader and she actually behaves like one. The "weather god" thing works really well, she's distinct from the other X-Men because of how symbolic her power is. Couple that with her spiritual aloofness and you can write a character that people are equal parts in love with and terrified of - this can generate drama, or a whole story. It's cool to have a big gun instead of a Telepath-ex-machina as a leader as well - when Storm turns up, shit gets real, but she can't bullshit her way out of as much, leaving more challenges for the X-men but keeping them scary.
But, personally, she generates less conflict than Cyclops or Wolverine, which hurts her. Storm as a leader should be a rock to build a story around, wheras the other two are always going to be more about their own internal conflict.
>>83504840
>Storm is way more interesting as a leader than Cyclops or Wolverine.
Everything you wrote dismisses that. "She's very stable, symbolic, has strong powers, but isn't stronk enough to deus ex her problems away" can her a good leader, but none of that makes her interesting. There has to be some sort of conflict to make her interesting.
>Storm as a leader should be a rock to build a story around
Stories about rocks who go into situations and stay perfectly firm aren't very compelling.
I don't know anything about Storm desu, but if she's truly dull then this is the kinda thinking that makes her so.
Because she's not into nudism anymore.
Post Claremont writers don't know what to do with Storm
She's lost all her edge, especially once Cyclops went down his path and they wanted her as a counter.
>>83503837
her personality is negroe
So what exactly sets Storm apart from Cyclops as leader? I haven't read X-men much.
>>83504710
Because Storm/Cyke is better.
>>83504908
Then take one of the times she lead the X-men, she was powerless when she was doing it. So she had to manage a bunch of super powers people on the team while having no powers. It did lead to some internal conflict and stuff.
I think she is one of the most interesting X-men
>>83504840
>Storm as a leader should be a rock to build a story around, wheras the other two are always going to be more about their own internal conflict.
When Claremont made her leader of the X-Men, she fell into emotional turmoil, second guessing herself, encountering identity issues, all that sort of stuff.
The whole idea that she was a fully accomplished and stoic leader at all times is probably what started her eventual decline as a character.
>>83503837
>a leader of the X-men
>Wolverine
I'm upset that this was actually a thing that happened.
>>83503837
If Marvel still had the rights, would she really work as the top solo superheroine they so desperately want?
I just can't imagine her separate to the X-Men. Let alone getting her own standalone movie franchise. Was her ongoing any good? What themes of its own did it have?
I feel like she only gets cited because she fought Wonder Woman that one time. Despite the fact that it only happened because they didn't have a definitive female title at the time and X-Men were at their peak of popularity.
>>83503837
There's just not a lot that's interesting about her. Even her big character arc during Claremont's run (going from the wide-eyed hippie newbie to the cold leader willing to kill) isn't anywhere near as interesting as Cyclops' constant parade of tragedy and desire for-and eventually finding of--a normal life.
>>83505555
X-Men don't work that well solo. Doesn't make them less popular, its just a completely different atmosphere.
>>83503837
Because as a female character she isn't allowed to have any personality flaws.
Wolverine is interesting because he has a fundamentally broken psyche. He is so screwed up that him trying to do the right thing is interesting to watch.
Cyclops was boring for decades, he didn't become interesting until flaws were introduced during Morrison's run. Jean dies and you hop into bed with her rival before the body is cold? *Wolverine* standing in judgement over you? This is juicy stuff for storytellers to run with.
Ororo? No interesting personality traits at all. If anything, she has regressed and taken over Cyke's long-standing cardboard-leader persona since he became interesting. Nobody will give her interesting traits for us to be interested *in*.
>>83504611
A wacky hairstyle is itself not a suitable replacement for an interesting personality. Ororo = wet cardboard.
>>83505240
Cyclops is Batman without the engineering skill in style and has a proactive outlook when looking at the big pitcher.
Storm is at heart the team mum so is more aware of the needs of each member of her team but sometimes has to shut everyone out when giving orders.
If you haven't read Claremont's run, your opinion on Storm is irrelevant. She really never gets any character development after that run because all people want to do with her is make her a mother figure or hook her up with somebody. She managed to be one of the most interesting X-Men when the franchise was at it's peak popularity and she didn't even have her powers at the time.
How does Rogue do as the X-Men leader?
>>83506084
>I never read Claremont
>>83506084
>Cyclops wasn't interesting until Morrison's run
>Cyclops didn't have flaws until Morrison's run
>>83506522
When she was teaching at wolverine's school I didn't mind her much. Only cause it was her learning to be a leader, but that was rarely done well. The writer would very often just have her steal as many powers as possible and go into battle. I liked it better when she was floundering around a bit, not sure of what she should do.
So, no not a good leader, but had her interesting moment.
Ideally, Storm would have been the side of Schism opposite to Scott, not Wolverine. Storm was largely absent from the X-Men during the recent post-M-day bad times, because she was off with Black Panther. Hell, her renewed responsibilities with the X-Men could have helped precipitate her split with BP, instead of that shitty AvX thing.
Storm wasn't used because Marvel has a constant boner for Wolverine and will write him into every story no matter how hypocritical and ridiculous he seems. Now she's boring because the writer is bad.
>>83505293
fucking this. I swear, I really thought Claremont was going to do it after Jean died(the first time).
>>83506568
I liked her more when she was just the muscle who had a trump card, and puffy sex hair.
>>83506653
>>83506568
Everybody says 90's Rogue is the best incarnation of the character, but for me the perfect Rogue was the late 80's, with the punk hair, the black and green spandex, and blowing kisses to Ronald Reagan while flying beside his private jet and wearing a bikini.
>>83506727
Better than the latest incarnation of Rogue, which might as well be Paquin Rogue with the stupid white bangs. Actually was the movie Rogue based off a new design like Evolution or were the new designs based off the movie version?
>>83506562
Not that guy, but...
Cyclops (to me) didn't have any interesting flaws till Morrison's run. He was always my favorite, but that's because I was a kid and he had a cool power and had no problem taking heat for being the responsible, level headed leader.
Scott's issues with Maddy and Nathan and the X-Men, how they compounded when Jean came back, and ridiculous retcons they had to do to walk back what a terrible person they'd turned Scott into weren't interesting, it was poorly written character assassination. It was sad.
Sure there's still his relationship with his dad and his brother and, the stuff with Sinister done to fix the aforementioned character assassination was good, but Morrison (and Whedon after him) laid it all out there and called Scott out on his character flaws and made them something to be embraced and built on instead of something to be ashamed of and retconned and ignored.
>>83504123
this
>>83504908
this
You have a flawed and wrong premise OP
>>83509631
This story was always more about making Cyclops a shit than making Storm great.
>>83503837
Who would win a death battle?
>>83509631
This guy knows what he's talking about.
Storm taking over followed by her executive decision to be more bloodthirsty in the wake of the Mutant Massacre is compelling stuff. I love the development of her relationship with Wolverine in this era.
Idk. I know I liked her Marvel Adventures: Avengers incarnation though. Miss that snark and arrogance, but not the point of obnoxiousness.
>>83509701
>to be more bloodthirsty in the wake of the Mutant Massacre
That's an arc that really starts with the Callisto fight
googling for this page, I didn't remember Callisto and Storm fighting in X-Men the Last Stand and I'm scared/tempted to watch
What I don't get is why the writers at Marvel try to keep Storm as a street level hero, when she is beyond that?
>>83510306
MA:Avengers is probably one of the best runs on the Avengers. Feels like real capeshit, a shining beacon of hope.
>>83503837
She was only ever good under Claremont.
And Wolverine is an absolutely terrible leader.
>>83503837
because Claremont stopped writing her
>>83506815
Movie came first
>tfw rewatched X1 the other day and noticed that her cloak is dark green
>>83506124
It worked in Claremont's run because it was the culmination of a long-running plot since Cyclops had left of Storm constantly second-guessing herself and doubting herself as leader of the X-Men and the way her need to some times do something dirty to save the day (sacrificing the few to save the many or killing someone or whatever) conflicted with her sort of hippie all-loving nature which caused her powers to spiral out of control since she didn't have the emotional balance needed to properly control them. Getting the mohawk was symbolic of her accepting that she had changed and while she didn't have to be the stoic, murderous leader no longer could she go through life a naive and wide-eyed idealist.
It was the culmination of years worth of slow character progression leading to a new direction for the character which is why that faggot Anka giving her the mohawk for no reason is fucking stupid. She didn't get a mohawk because she decided "oh, I want a mohawk", she got it to symbolize that she was a new person after a long period of emotional uncertainty regarding who she was. It's like when movies and TV shows jump straight to Dark Phoenix while giving scant attention to the slow build up of power and the long period of mental corruption that lead up to it instead going straight to "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and losing any emotional weight the story had. I don't even like Storm either but the Storm of the last 25 years is a far cry from the Storm of the preceding 15.
>>83503837
she used to be truly great, and as worthy of leading the x-men as Cyclops, but she hasnt been written well in decades.
The two things that hurt her most were:
Morrison didnt care about her, and cared a lot about Cyclops, which gave us the best super hero "marriage" ever, Scott and Emma. Emma became the main woman, and was written quite well until Bendis.
They married her to Tchalla because, lol, both are black. Kinda like DC with their Superman-Wonder Woman book in which they fuck because lol, they are both very strong.
>>83504123
That's just whit writing.
Do you remember how at the end of Uncanny X-Men 1 she told off both Cyclops and Wolvie over the X-Force thing and she told them both they could not be friends anymroe and to fuck off her life?
Then at the start of Uncanny X-Men 2 she joined Cyclops' Extinction Team with the express intent of striking he fear of God into people?
