I love Watchmen, and I get why this may upset some people, but the concept alone is enough to get me really excited for the DC universe going forward.
I feel like there are a lot of villains in DC that exist that aren't part of a creator owned miniseries and you're just using them to get hype happening. which makes me just lose hope in ya
>Idea from Hypocrite Johns
>Execution by the bunch of hacks currently working at DC Comics
>Being hyped
Why would Dr. Manhattan want to screw with the DC universe?
He left Earth because of his effect on people.
He went to go create new life, not decide "You know what? The problem was that I wasn't fucking enough with people."
>>83331471
Maybe because he found the multiverse and came to the enlightenment that life is meaningless
Yes, OP, you are the only one excited about this. You are the only person on the internet who cares about Watchmen.
C-Can I lick your balls, sir?
Wait, so they're attempting to connect Watchmen to the canon of other DC comics?
Doesn't that kind of undermine the idea behind the original work, regarding its portrayal of masked heroes? Watchmen's strength was as a standalone work with a solid beginning and end.
>>83331264
The way I see it, why should anyone be upset? The characters have a lot of potential, and it's lot like using them now somehow ruins their original story. I will never understand how some people think that.
>>83333663
Yup.
Mainstream capeshit (aka Big Two) is, and always will be desperate trash.
>>83333823
Nah
>>83331264
If Johnny Storm's T-Bolt kicks the shit out of Osterman? I will ejaculate so hard it will land in Alan Moore's beard
>>83333663
>Doesn't that kind of undermine the idea behind the original work, regarding its portrayal of masked heroes
Not really seeing as how it's a different universe
>>83333997
It's not. It's the Watchmen canon being connected to the pre-52 universe while also working in New 52 through Manhattan's godmodding.
>>83333663
It's not so much that they're trying to make "Watchmen" DC Universe canon as much as it is that they're trying to make "Watchmen" DC Multiverse canon.
The implication is that Dr. Manhattan left the universe of "Watchmen" to go create a new universe, and in doing so he fucked with the DC Multiverse, specifically Earth-0, which resulted in the post-Flashpoint "New 52" universe.
Or something along those lines.
>>83333663
The story of the Watchmen works as a great standalone and as a deconstruction of superhero comics.
The characters and properties, however, can work outside of that one story. It's not like anything is ruined by this either. It's like how we saw Constantine enter the DCU after New 52 launched, but Hellblazer was still running normally The two can exist separately just fine.
This shit with the Watchmen bring in rebirth may end up garbage, but it's not really fair to dismiss it all out of hand.
>>83334056
Except that's not what's happening
>>83331264
>hyped
No, never.
>>83334056
That's just speculation. And even then, we will always have the original Watchmen books.
>>83333928
>Alan Moore, wielder of Rasputin and Santa's powers will destroy DC
>>83331264
That doomsday clock is at 23:46 or 23:47.
That's pretty far from doomsday, considering
we're currently sitting at 23:57 in modern day
and the farthest the clock has been set back
is to 23:43
>>83334092
Given the history of such things from the Big Two, I think it's COMPLETELY fair to be dismissive. Granted, the outside possibility does exist that the writers won't completely fuck it up, but I can't even remember the last time I saw a big dumb stunt like this NOT suck.
>>83331264
Manchildren just buttmad that their dark and edgy "deconstruction" is being treated as what it is, just another dumb comic about superheroes.
>>83334267
>dark and edgy
But Watchmen isn't either of those when compared to a lot of regular capeshit.
>>83334092
It's not the same as Constantine and Swamp-Thing, since they started out in the DCU and had interacted with DC characters before. This is more like making Transmetropolitan a part of the DCU and having Spider Jerusalem meet the LoSH or some bullshit like that.
>>83334295
>Watchmen isn't dark or edgy
I know the internet has bastardized these words, but really?
>>83334336
>but really?
As far as I'm concerned, it really isn't. The pirate story within Watchmen was dark and edgy. Or at least edgy. I refuse to call anything dark unless it actually has some maturity to it.
>>83334336
It's not. Dark maybe, but there's a much more dignified treatment of it as opposed to a lot of regular capeshit.
Then again, this is /co/ so a response like this and >>83334267
was not unexpected.
>>83334235
I think the clock is shown at23:52.
>>83334390
>>83334433
Please tell me what you guys think edgy means. Because saying The Watchmen isn't edgy, and I mean the literal use of the word, is just weird to me.
DC Rebirth: We've Completely Run Out Of Ideas And Have to Desperately Turn Back to Alan Moor'e Decades-Old Stories
Again
>>83334487
Well, for one, outside of the edges of the page it's not really any more sharp or jagged than any other tpb you'd find, nor does it seem nervous or irritable. I hope this has been helpful.
>>83334319
>This is more like making Transmetropolitan a part of the DCU and having Spider Jerusalem meet the LoSH or some bullshit like that.
Please do not give DC any more fucking brilliant ideas.
I guarantee you in a few years when we get DC: NuRebirth, Spider Jerusalem will be working at the Daily Planet or some shit.
>>83334629
>at the forefront of a trend; experimental or avant-garde
I don't think you actually want to talk about comics and want to pretend that book being thought of as edgy (because of your warped view on the word) is a terrible thing
>>83333928
I didn't know he used twitter
>>83334729
He doesn't. That's not him. He doesn't have any official social media presence except a Facebook page for one of his projects, but it's not a personal page he comments on, it's just promotional.
Moore is the last person in the world who'd use Twitter.
>>83334460
Oh, I see now. The clock was at 23:52, then ticks back in each successive panel.
>>83335272
>52
Oh shit.
>>83331264
>I love Watchmen
The point of that book was that the main cast were a bunch of deranged fuck-ups and the whole superhero concept was a stupid idea that none of them should have tried.
>>83333928
I take immense delight in Moore's unhappiness.
>>83336205
Well you're pretty much wrong on all accounts buddy.
DC's attitude when they perceive they are in a bind always bugs me.
They always have a massive persecution complex and blame their problems on something else and build strongly this victim complex into the fans.
Rebirth read very very crass to me and I don't want any part of that DC.
>>83333406
That defeats the entire purpose of his character arc
>>83331264
That's pretty dumb of you, unless you only like watchmen for its most meaningless and superficial aspects, in which case you're just dumb.
This isn't going to be doc manhattan from watchmen, it's going to be Geoff Johns' Big Scary Bad Guy, this time playing the role of "doc manhattan"
He's going to wreck the heroes for five issues, then in issue six hal jordan is like "but what if we... HIT HIM REALLY HARD" and everyone will hit him really hard and then he'l "die".
>>83333928
It's not actually him fuck off
>>83337421
Didn't Johns say that's exactly what they're not going to do?
>>83333928
>those dumbasses that thought it was real
Good job, mate
POST YOUR FACE AS YOU ENJOY REBIRTH BATHING IN MARVELKEK AND WATCHMENFAG TEARS
IT'S A GREAT TIME!
>>83337607
>POST YFW REBIRTH SPECIALBEAT STEVE ROGERS; CAPTAIN HYDRA #1 AT CMX
ftfy
>>83334235
Do you think Johns know that shit??
The idiot thinks ROMANS were a thing 3000 BC. The guy is one of the most ignorant people working in the media, a complete jackass.
>>83336205
The point wasn't that superheroes are stupid, it's that if superheroes were real, you'd have to have some real problems to want to be one and if you don't you'd develop them from the mental stress/trauma of going out every night to beat up bad guys. It's not condemning them, it's taking them to their logical conclusion.
Despite what you and your kind think, Moore never hated superheroes, otherwise he would have never wrote about them to begin with.
>>83336205
>the main cast were a bunch of deranged fuck-ups
How? None of them were deranged except for Rorschach, and he isn't even deranged so much as severely traumatized. Manhattan MD was just apathetic and detached from humanity to the point of laziness. Veidt was pretty fucking normal enough to be that world's equivalent of Lex/Bruce Wayne in terms of personal success. The Comedian was a shithead rapist, so I'll give that one to you. Laurie was pretty normal, too, just miserable about how lonely her life had become, same with Dan.
>>83337991
>Veidt was pretty fucking normal enough to be that world's equivalent of Lex/Bruce Wayne in terms of personal success
All the death he caused should have given you a hint that he wasn't sane.
>>83337513
To be fair, he said BATMAN wouldn't.
>>83337421
>"but what if we... HIT HIM REALLY HARD" and everyone will hit him really hard and then he'l "die".
Man, Hal Jordan must've had an anime boxing coach.
>PUNCH HARDER, KID!
>>83334822
>Moore is the last person in the world who'd use Twitter.
I don't know. He IS a pretty big twit.
>>83333663
Quit pretending you didn't already know. Fucking false fags
>>83338171
I just can't imagine the conflict being settled by punching this time around.
But maybe I'm just being optimistic.
>>83337465
Of course it isn't.
>>83337607
>>83337763
Kindly keep your "favors" to yourself
>>83338388
Must be meant for >>83337607
>>83334092
Have there been demons in the DCU that made Constantine and people from New 52 join up?
Will we be seeing Roschach and Batman interaction?
>>83337763
>>83338320
When was the last time a DC event was solved by punching it really hard?
Why do I get the feeling that V For Vendetta is right around the corner?
>>83338810
Because why the fuck not? There's no integrity in comics anymore
>>83338862
>>83338810
You do know V already had a comic tie in with another universe right? Oh right of course not you don't read comics and just saw the movie.
>>83337292
See:
>>83337607
DC fans genuinely blame all the ills and fuckups of the DC writing staff on Watchmen. It's laughable man. Like it's Moore's fault that comic book writers are hack frauds that shamelessly and badly emulated his work.
>>83337607
Nothing good ever comes out of being a DCfag my nigga. Nothing good EVER!
>people excited about DC raping Watchmen
>again
>Big Two company wars
This thread is disgusting.
>>83338895
>Unless you read every fucking comic ever you're a casual
Get fucked you cunt
>>83338897
DCAU is still the best cape media ever made
>>83338936
I usually only think people are casuals when they act like a smug know-it-all even though they really don't know what they're talking about.
>>83337292
I'm still unsure if Superboy Prime being a whiny destructive manchild about the then current state of the DCU and all its unnecessary violence was supposed to be Johns taking shots at fanboys, because in the end he still beat Golden Age Superman to death. The symbolism of that has always seemed really fucked to me. Maybe editorial made the decision and he just had to roll with their command, but still.
>>83338936
>every fucking comic
How about just the comics you're posting about?
>Watchmen was overrated!
>Why aren't people over watchmen!?
>Watchmen doesn't matter anymore!
>I'm so over Watchmen I'm going to write a comic about how over Watchmen I am!
>>83339078
Said no one ever
>>83339078
We could all learn a lesson from Comedian.
>>83338896
>DC fans genuinely blame all the ills and fuckups of the DC writing staff on Watchmen
And now we have an event that literally blames all the ills and fuckups of the New 52 universe on Watchmen.
>>83331471
so he creates dc universe?
>>83331471
Yeah, this is the thing that bothers me. Doctor Manhattan's whole thing is being detached from humanity. Why the fuck would he care about whether Superman is married to Lois Lane or whether Green Arrow and Green Lantern ever went on a roadtrip or how many Robins Batman's had enough to fuck with time and change that shit? They'll have to pull some really contrived shit to force Manhattan into the role of antagonist in another DC Crisis story.
I liked pre-Nu52 better than Nu52 and I miss a lot of the elements that were removed, but first and foremost, I like good comics. As glad as I am to see Wally West back, Rebirth just wasn't a very good comic. It was pretty much just another rehash of every DC event comic ever.
>>83331334
>watchmen
>creator owned
uhhhhhh
>>83339566
No, he just removed specific parts of history as far as we know.
>>83339645
Like King Crimson?
>>83331471
Doc wanted to make his own universe. He needs peices. He takes bits and pieces from the DC universe. The DC universe fixes itself as best it can ("I need a Wally West... This one will do," etc.)
It's like if you wanted to build a castle out of Legos, so you take some from another castle.
Remember, Johns has unequivocally stated that Doc is not a villain.
>>83339680
I like this theory.
>>83333663
The entire point is that they ARE undermining Watchmen. They are declaring that statement Watchmen made about superheroes is wrong, and pointing out that as much as it complains and tries to differentiate itself, Watchmen is still a superhero story.
It's not some grand take-down of those fucking capes like people want to pretend it is, not is it a sacred cow that deserves to be held above the rest of the industry. It's just another story.
>b...but muh stand-alone
this is the most meaningless argument I've ever heard.
>>83339617
>Why the fuck would he care about whether Superman is married to Lois Lane or whether Green Arrow and Green Lantern ever went on a roadtrip or how many Robins Batman's had enough to fuck with time and change that shit?
he had a weird moment of 'enlightenment' when he found out Laurie wasn't convieved when Comedian raped her mother but during consensual sex that happened later
I assume it's related to that
>>83339487
lol
"That story that was published 30 years ago is to blame for all the shitty decisions we made 5 years ago!"
If anything, the metaphorical villain of the series should be movie execs or something. It seems obvious to me that Nu52 was meant to make the DCU a testing ground for films. It was WB that told Didio to do something big quick or get the boot. Characters suddenly get costumes that look like movie concept art with seams that a live-action costume made of real material might hypothetically have, rather than abstracted color blocks. Captain Marvel changes his name to Shazam, probably because WB had a movie in development and were worried about a superhero having a name they can't trademark. JL: Origins looks like some treatment for a JL movie.
Remember how Wonder Woman's DCnU costume was originally supposed to have pants, but they were changed back to shorts before the comics were released? That's because Andrea Palacki would had been wearing a Wonder Woman costume with pants on the television show, and WB wanted the comics to match that. It was only when the pilot wasn't picked up that DC was allowed to change it back. And now the movie has her in pteruges, the comics do, too.
I'm not complaining about the costume itself, it still looks fine to me and personally I don't really care. It's just the fact that it has to be dictated by adaptations that is worrying.
Are we really going to sit here and pretend that Watchmen being the progenitor of dark and edgy comics hasn't been common knowledge for decades now?
Is this the hill Watchmenbabbies want to die on?
>>83339815
marvel baby found
>>83334092
>The characters and properties, however, can work outside of that one story.
Not really. What made those characters interesting was how they behaved in the context of that particular story. You don't really get anything by removing them from it.
>>83339828
According to two anon's Watchmen isn't dark or edgy because those would be bad things
How to spot a casual
>Watchmen is the best comic ever written!!!!
>>83339848
>thinking Moore's Charleston ripoffs are special snowflakes
lol
>>83339815
You typed all that out just to say you're a mouseketeer. What a waste.
>>83339865
That's precisely the opposite of what I said.
>>83331264
Why would any watchmen fan be gyped for this? There's nothing to be gained from connecting watchmen to the greater multiverse.
>>83339898
Why would anybody be a Watchmen fan in the first place?
>>83339898
>There's nothing to be gained from connecting watchmen to the greater multiverse.
Except a potentially interesting story
>>83339865
That's the point. They're already caracitures of other heroes, they have no value outside the story they were used in.
>>83339898
There's plenty to be gained. Watchmen is getting its long overdue "What's So Funny"ing.
>>83339914
NOT MUH MOORE
>>83339914
With DC's current crop of talent you'd have better chances of /co/ actually reading a comic.
>>83334319
It's not the same because DC don't own Spider Jerusalem. Transmet was creator owned whilst DC kept the rights to Watchmen, and the Watchmen characters were blatant copies of the Charlton characters DC also owned. That being said I think this story is garbagelike all capeshit
>>83339921
Sure, if you're clinically retarded. Watchmen is an important part of comics history. It's like a drop of arsenic inside the soup of the whole medium. By holding that book accountable for what it caused that poison is being diluted to save everything else.
Watchmen is a book that has gone since publication as the be-all end-all statement on what superheroes are supposed to be. It has gone unchallenged and held up as something sacred by people who, to be quite frank, don't know any better.
We don't know how this story will play out, but the way things are being presented makes it clear that these characters will have a mirror held up to them and be shown just how wrong they are. The ideology that Watchmen formed as a deconstruction of superheroes is itself being deconstructed.
The only difference is that making things not edgy causes significantly more gnashing of teeth from the public (who by and large have completely stopped believing in the concept of heroes) than making things grimdark does.
>>83340027
>Watchmen is a book that has gone since publication as the be-all end-all statement on what superheroes are supposed to be.
I have no idea where your getting this from
>>83340027
Except the only reason it "caused" anything was because everyone wanted to copy it's tone. It's a deconstruction that only works within it's universe. It was imitated by people who are absolutely retarded. Watchmen isn't responsible for shit, as it stands it's one of the finest comics of all time if not the finest from the writing to the art to the details and themes it's almost untouched but that's because of the setting it's working in.
Watchmen wasn't about what heroes are supposed to be, that's just what hacks think.
>>83340027
Where does Frank Miller fit into this, since DKR came first, or even similar stories from the same period? What about Kingdom Come and every other attempt to tackle this grimdark edginess you claim Watchmen caused? What about the shit writers at the Big Two that copied shit from Watchmen while missing the point? Do they not share any fault?
>>83340176
Frank Miller sucks
>>83340027
If you want to challenge the ideas presented in Watchmen, attacking the characters is not the way to go. These characters are the way they are because of the world they live in, so telling them they're wrong doesn't address the core issue.
>>83340176
>Kingdom Come
>grimdark
You fucking wot m8. The entire point of Kingdom Come is old heroes standing up against edgy antiheroes
fucking Jesus Christ, what kind of an illiterate faggot are you?
>>83340239
Read that post again, Anon.
>>83340239
Reread it, anon
>>83333663
Who. Cares. I'm Hyped After Seeing That Font.
>>83338423
there was a whole series about it caleld Justice League Dark
>>83338996
I don't think there was any intended symbolism in that. Superboy Prime only became "LOL BRILLIANT DC FANBOY META-COMMENTARY" in Legion of Three Worlds. Before that he was played completely straight. And insufferable.
>>83331334
They're actually not creator owned as long as watchmen is still in print
>>83334487
People think edginess is inherently bad, for some reason
>Captcha was 69 52
Oh fuck
>>83338996
He was a 90s kid who wanted Golden Age comics to the point that he was willing to destroy what Golden Age comics stood for to get what he wanted.
>>83340835
I blame the internet.
You can't even casually use the word anymore without people thinking you're shitting on something they like.
>>83339680
>Remember, Johns has unequivocally stated that Doc is not a villain
Him murdering Metron, Owlman and Pandora kinda prove that false
>>83339993
>Watchmen characters were blatant copies of the Charlton characters
You've never read a Charlton comic in your life, have you?
>>83340967
He's thinning the herd. There is nothing wrong with culling the weak
>>83331471
I'm wondering if after the original story, Manhattan kind of comes around the Adrian's way of thinking
>mfw people actually, legitimately want the Watchmen characters in works not penned by Moore
>mfw people think Geoff "Silver Age or bust" Johns is the man for the job
>>83341151
>mfw people STILL like Moore
whoa..................
>>83341151
Eh. I don't see Watchmen as this untouchable sacred cow. It was only a big deal in 1986 because "oh wow, my superheroes are fucking and killing, this is so DEEP". And Moore is overrated anyway. If DC wants to fuck around with those characters, I won't complain.
>>83341151
I believe in cereal man
>>83341168
>And Moore is overrated anyway
>the definitive Swamp Thing author
>Top Ten
>Tom Strong
>V For Vendetta
>From Hell
>For The Man Who Was Everything
>Whatever Happened to The Man of Tomorrow
>Miracleman
Say what you want about Watchmen, but Alan Moore is anything but overrated.
>>83341168
>It was only a big deal in 1986 because "oh wow, my superheroes are fucking and killing, this is so DEEP".
Or because people recognized the artistry of the piece, and how its critique of superheroes very much rang true. And it was only idiots who liked it just for the blood and sex. But that would go against Cereal Man's narrative.
>>83341161
But Saga of the Swamp Thing is GOAT.
>>83341284
You sound like those BvS is kino posters.
I don't understand the watchmen role in the relaunch.
Dr Manhattan zapped 3 people dead and is supposedly on Mars fixing watches.
Wally had Comedian's pin for some reason and lost it when he was speedforcing the whole batcave.
Did Johns at least gave a framework of what this all means to the writers of the relauched #1s or do we have to wait 2 or 3 years for another crisis for this to become relevant again.
>>83331264
>another event revolving around flash
I wasn't hyped for the last three.
>>83341333
How so? I'm not taking some critically lambasted piece and trying to dignify and defend it, I'm simply expressing the reasons I (and many others) like a critically acclaimed comic book.
>>83341363
>, I'm simply expressing the reasons I (and many others) like a critically acclaimed comic book.
its not quite critically acclaimed, though
>>83341342
maybe you should read the comic and quit being a little bitch, niggerlips
>>83341377
Watchmen is very much critically acclaimed, the fuck you talking about?
>>83341395
Clearly those critics are paid off Disney shills.
>>83334596
Geoff Johns has built his entire career on that model, no great surprise.
>>83341423
Ah, I see. I forgot about the conspiracy.
Carry on brother, may your tinfoil be tight.
Regardless of how you feel about what is (or was until recently) universally considered a seminal and positive work for the medium doesn't change that this is a stupid, desperate idea with no substance.
>>83341480
Just like saying that "this is a stupid, desperate idea with no substance" doesn't make it true
>>83341515
He's not wrong though. Making "Huge Earth Shattering Even #13" not only based around a decades old character, but the point of said event being restoring the status quo so you can pander to the nostalgia of an old, set in their ways consumer base is nothing short of shallow.
>>83341569
>huge earth shattering event
>Wally is back, also, this H-Lister is dead
>>83341599
Would you prefer if I called DC's latest Crisis on Infinite X(s) "Big Event" rather than "Huge Earth Shattering Event"?
>>83341599
Well 1 dropped plot point and 2 D listers.
>>83341284
Yeah, yeah. It was a deconstruction of the superhero genre. Every comic made in the past 30 years is a deconstruction of the superhero genre. Who cares. It was definitely influential, I'll give it that. I'd argue that influence was more bad than it was good. But it definitely had an impact on try-hard man babies 30 years ago.
>>83341342
Watchmen's role in the relaunch is bringing in readers by using a famous property that DC happens to own.
>>83341515
It's stupid because it's highlighting an iconic property while blaming it for the problems DC is facing currently (and this is leaving aside how inaccurate and hypocritical that notion is and debates about misinterpretations of Watchmen). It's desperate because it's a massive backpedal that is admitting that the company fucked up royally in the past five years by mining an iconic previously stand alone property that came out thirty years ago. It has no substance because it's featured in a book that was essentially a large advertisement written by an average at his absolute pinnacle author who is immediately fucking off to go work on movies leaving the same people who got us in this situation holding the bag.
>>83341662
>Who cares
A lot of people, apparently. Not only is it a huge best seller, but massively influential (as you yourself stated).
And Detective Comics is so over Watchmen, they're making an 80 page comic book about how over Watchmen they are.
>>83341717
I'm ready to embrace more Watchmen. I'm also ready to get over the idea that the original Watchmen is an untouchable work of art.
I'm interested in seeing what DC does with them.
>>83341662
Are you implying that Watchmen is only valuable as a criticism of superheroes? Ignoring that the criticism alone has quite a bit of value, the writing, paneling, art and lettering of the comic itself is very good.
>>83341741
>I'm interested in seeing what DC does with them
And why is that, especially after Before Watchmen?
>>83341775
It's something new. I never read Before Watchmen.
>>83341741
Because their track record is so amazing currently and gives you confidence that they can do justice to meta-commentary on a quintessential property? Or are you delusional/shilling?
Whatever happened to that dude who could steal cities from universes and made them fight each other? What if Manhattan got influenced by that guy?
It's not a big deal, you guys. DC is using their own characters in their own books.
>>83341741
But the problem isn't that Watchmen is untouchable, it's that there's no reason to touch it again. You can't hope to write a better story with those characters, since they were tailored specifically for that one story.
>>83341792
If you want something new, why not go after a new IP? Something new, original and well done.
Watchmen doesn't need more.
And Before Watchmen was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Most of the titles were shit (before being compared to the original) and even the so-called "best" of them were just mediocre.
>>83341480
>Disney putting words in other people's mouths
Am I going to be receiving a check for this?
>>83341797
Nah. I'm mostly looking forward to the potential of punching Watchmen and it's shit legacy in it's fucking face, figuratively and literally.
>>83341741
I'm not comparing Moore to Nabokov, but you don't see anybody clamoring for more of Lolita. The characters therein are contained to that specific story, nothing more, nothing less.
Why should Watchmen be any different?
I hate this because I'll never be able to enjoy the original 12 issues again. They raped my memories
>>83341855
Yeah all that limitless potential at DC currently to take down one of the most famous and influential properties they have. Maybe they'll get Lobdell to do it.
>>83341669
So I take it you have neither read nor discussed comics in decades, right?
>>83341896
Is this some odd straw man made to discredit those who wish for artistic integrity and/or dislike Rebirth for using Watchmen characters?
I'm going to remember these threads when it turns out that it's a ruse and there's actually no Watchmen relation whatsoever
>But the badge
It's a smiley face(You remember how that became a billion dollar icon, don't you?), with some blood on it
>>83341905
Sounds fun!
>>83341908
This, you can't just pick up a modern comic and expect quality.
>>83341855
So you're just a bitter cunt because the Silver Age ended?
>>83341908
Nope I've been a DC fan since long before they started uniformly shitting the bed (and am considering abandoning them completely for the first time ever which feels terrible) and am literally discussing comics as we speak.
>>83341941
There's a difference between expecting quality from a modern comic and disliking a company in charge of a universe you once loved slowly killing itself.
>>83341945
Nice "straw man"
>>83341717
>Watchmen shows how over superheroes Alan Moore is by writing an entire book about it
>>83341423
But Watchmen isn't even a Disney property. What madness is this? How deep does the rabbit hole go?
>>83341945
Nope. In fact, I'm not bitter at all. Comics in general are better than ever, and it looks like DC is getting back to being great, too. I just like seeing pretentious manbabies like yourself get sore when DC dares tinker with your precious sacred cow. I hope they put in a scene where Wally West takes a literal piss on a copy of Watchmen just to make you sissies cry.
If you still like Watchmen, you are either a casual or a fucking retard.
You should be as embarrassed of being a fan of Watchman as you would be to be a fan of Rob fucking Leifeld
>>83341980
That was not a straw man, merely an assumption of character. Most people on /co/ who dislike Watchmen do so because they appreciate Silver Age values in their comic books.
If my assumption about why you're bitter over Watchmen was incorrect, then I apologize.
>>83337292
But that's not what Johns is doing. He's not literally saying "Watchmen made everything go wrong", even if that's what happened in the comic, he's saying "a lot of people took the wrong lesson from Watchmen", which is an opinion that Moore himself shares.
>>83341994
Watchmen turning comics grimdark is part of Disney's plan. Try to keep up.
>>83342017
Saying DC is getting back to being great because of an 80 page advertisement by Geoff Johns and a logo change completely invalidates anything you have to say.
>>83342022
You could very well make that assumption about the Watchmen and Rebirth as well.
>>83342017
>it looks like DC is getting back to being great
Why? Because Geoff Johns pandered to nostalgia?
>>83339828
If anything the bad guys should be Manhattan and TDKR Batman since both comics brought that wave of dark.
>>83342039
You can say what I have to say is invalidated, but you still don't like what I have to say. ;)
>>83339914
why would you expect that from DC.
>>83342035
Oh, I see. The fiends!
>>83341797
>it's a Mouseketeer tries to slander DC episode
>>83342047
I suppose you are indeed correct. I was wrong in assuming, and I hope it won't detract from any rational debate (I realize this is 4chan, but still).
>>83342055
Yup. Nostalgia is great. They should bring back as much old DC lore as they can. And make it silly as fuck. Bat-Mite should make Dr. Manhattan suck his dick.
>>83342076
>>83342091
I like people like you! you don't get incredibly hostile when seeing someone you disagree with
>>83339942
>King
>Abnett
>Orlando
>Giffen
>Seeley
>technically Morrison
>Priest
>Rucka
>not talented
You're a funny guy, buddy.
>>83342017
>>83342096
Are you upset?
>>83342107
>>83340176
>What about the shit writers at the Big Two that copied shit from Watchmen while missing the point?
That's exactly what Rebirth is a condemnation of, you mongoloid.
>>83342114
Hey, I try. Life is too short to get angry over being wrong.
>>83342096
>hating Bat-Mite
typical Disnigger
>>83342118
Nope! I can sense a lot of hostility towards DC for their future plans ITT, though. Personally, I'm more excited than I have been in years.
>>83339731
>They are declaring that statement Watchmen made about superheroes is wrong
And they need to actually use Watchmen to say that? Are they so insecure about Watchmen as a deconstructive work that they need to dig it up years later to backtrack on its own themes?
>b...but muh stand-alone
God forbid a superhero comic have a conclusive start and finish for its characters, without being endlessly drawn out and constantly rebooted by the industry regardless of what the original author wanted.
>>83342096
Yeah let the people who decided it was a good idea to get rid of all of their rich history and then didn't have the balls to commit to it while simultaneously running their company into creative bankruptcy get their greedy little paws back on the toys they unceremoniously threw away that sounds like a recipe for success.
>>83342142
I fucking love Bat-Mite. He's a better character than The Joker.
The thread is over, pack it up. We've entered the "anybody who doesn't like everything DC does is a Disney shill" phase, any attempts at conversation are dead in the water.
>>83342107
>>83342119
not sure how this proves DC isnt shit.
>guys we've been fucking up for the last 5 years but trust us this time we won't
>>83342143
The hostility is understandable.
>>83342143
>punching Watchmen and its shit legacy in the fucking face
sounds pretty bitter family
>>83342076
Eh, I'm just optimistic when it comes to comics.
>>83342190
DCfags truly have the biggest persecution complex this side of Israel.
>>83342116
Aside from that being mediocrity incarnate outside of maybe the old guard, the same people who ran the even more talented lineup of the New52 away from the company are still in charge.
>>83342171
Well, we can always be cynical and never read another comic book ever again and just bitch and moan until we die of heart attacks on our cheetos-covered keyboards. Or we can actually wait and see what happens before we piss ourselves to sleep.
>>83342239
Hey, I can't help it if you have shit taste. You do have a point about the editorial though.
>>83342162
Why the fuck would they not? Just to please salty faggots who think the comic deserves to untouched?
No. Those characters need to be used to highlight just how wrong they are.
>>83342190
Any valid criticism against this objectively terrible idea from an objectively terrible company isn't addressed head on and is immediately met with some variation on Mouseketeer or a similar attempt to derail the conversation.
>>83342213
Oh, Watchmen definitely does suck, though. Pretentious shit for manbabies who don't want to admit their childish shit is, well, childish. That doesn't come from a place of resentment. I just like laughing at people like you. In actuality, the industry has been taking the piss out of Watchmen for over a decade. And we're all the better for it. It's just cute to see the pissbabies get mad because they're bringing the characters back. How dare they. Boo hoo!
>>83342171
>creative bankruptcy
Marvel didn't write Rebirth fampaitachi-kun
>>83342190
Maybe you shouldn't have been shilling for Disney in the first place, Mouseketeer
>>83342301
Shameless nostalgia pandering is still pandering.
>pandering is only bad when marvel does it
>>83342238
[Unsolicited Opinions on Israel?!?!?]
>>83342288
>objectively terrible
nice try disnigger
>>83342254
We can also slavishly devote ourselves to companies who repeatedly dish out shit sandwiches and expect us to love the taste because we are too stupid to think critically and admit fault.
>>83342292
yeah you dont sound mad and bitter at all
>>83342288
>objectively terrible company
Looks like both sides can derail the conversation.
>>83342356
>>83342370
New 52. Bob Harass.
>>83342337
That...that was maybe a little TOO on the nose.
>>83342292
I bet you already have tickets for the new Ghostbusters movie.
>>83342331
>doing what both the writers and audience want is bad
>doing what editorial tells us will piss off the audience is good
It is an inarguable fact that Marvel fans have more genes in common withcrabs than they do with you and me
>>83342282
That's like someone saying they couldn't write a proper romance novel without resurrecting everyone from the Great Gatsby, and telling the audience that having Jay desperately romanticize the past really can turn out alright in the end.
>>83342360
No way. Are you saying you're not looking forward to the inevitable Scooby-Doo/Watchmen crossover?
Because I know I am.
>>83342331
Pandering is only bad when they're not pandering to ME!
>>83342238
>>83342337
>>83342430
>doing what both the writers and audience want is bad
If it was what the audience wanted they wouldn't be getting so much criticism for it.
inb4 no true scotsman
>>83331264
what issue of Before Watchmen has Doc messing with the DC Universe?
>unironic company wars
>>83342477
But the audience is pretty happy. The book sold out almost everywhere.
There's just a few mentally ill Moore fanboys and Disney shills trying to say otherwise.
This isn't a Hail Hydra, for all the attempts to draw parallels the shills keep trying to make.
>>83342477
The criticism is just a loud minority.
>>83331264
im fine with it, they kinda did the same with with introducing Captain Marvel
>>83342489
company war wise it looks like DCfags are on the offensive way more than Marvelcucks.
If someone even says that the Big 2 are both shit, they deeply personally offend DCfags.
>>83342477
>>83342535
>anyone who doesnt like this pandering garbage is mentally ill
>muh sales justify it
all marvel events confirmed for quality then since they sell so well.
>>83342535
And Harley Quinn has like three of the top ten DC books. That doesn't mean she's a quality character.
>>83342549
That's because it's usually Marvelfags trying to save face when somebody points out just how shit their comics are.
>>83342573
Is it garbage because the idea of playing with Moore's characters is an inherently blasphemous one, or because the quality of the stories themselves are poor?
>>83342549
Because "they're both shit" completely discounts the fact that DC actually puts out good comics, while Marvel does not.
"Truth is in the middle" faggotry is the position of the stubbornly ignorant, and is basically only held by those Marveldrones and Indians who want to make themselves feel better
>>83342489
This thread is supposed to be a discussion of DC Rebirth but like most discussions largely involving criticism of the idea it somehow devolves into company wars.
>>83342592
You know how he'll answer that question, anon.
>>83342602
Only autists are about company wars. Both companies create good product.
>>83342591
>DCfags and their conspiracies
lel
>>83342592
por que no los dos?
>>83342592
Both. It's not blasphemous but it's lazy, desperate, and unnecessary at absolute best and you're kidding yourself if you're expecting quality from the DC that brought you New 52 and now is trying to haphazardly renege on it.
>>83342602
DC doesn't publish any good comics tho.
